/lit/ - Literature

>>16012969
Your post provoked my thoughts. I shall pay attention to my language now and work creatively.

Works written in E-Prime
>Laws of Form by G. Spencer-Brown, 1969 (except for one statement)
>Quantum Psychology, by Robert Anton Wilson (1990)
>Worlds of Wonder: How to Write Science Fiction & >Fantasy by David Gerrold has a chapter about (and written in) E-Prime
>The New American Standard Bible in E-Prime, composed by Dr. David F. Maas
>Scoundrel Days: A Memoir, 2017 Brentley Frazer
>An Insider’s Guide to Robert Anton Wilson by Eric Wagner
Someone should put this in a nice chart, it seems to me that E-prime has yet to become a meme on this board. It seems like it could function as a great original meme.

>I only know how it seems to me at this moment.
Just use languages with evidentiality bro.

Because it's the fucking copula. All IE languages have it.

Feelings over reals confirmed.
Realists BTFO
Platonists are seething and religion is dead.

>>16013086
>Because it's the fucking copula.
*Because it seems to me at this very moment the fucking copula.
Please abstain from using any form of 'to be' in this thread, it triggers my anxiety. Thank you.

>>16013086
Russian doesn't have 'is'. It has 'was' and 'will be' but not 'is'.

eg. you say not 'he is a monkey' but 'he monkey'. sometimes they put a dash 'he -- monkey'

>>16013108
*Feelings over reals seem to me at this very moment confirmed.
*Realists seem to me at this very moment BTFO
*Platonists seem at this very moment seething and religion seem at this very moment dead
Please, abstain from dogmatic writing.

>>16013135
The it's still the copula, it's just they've atrophied off its usage in certain instances.

>>16013114
Is that so?

>>16013149
>Is that so?
>Does that seem at this very moment to you so?

Interesting desu.

>>16013172
Aah does it seem interesting to you at this very moment fren?

>>16013149
>The it's still the copula, it's just they've atrophied off its usage in certain instances.
I don't understand what you mean, they don't use that word at all.

>>16012969
OP *is* GAY

>>16013204
*OP seems at this very moment to me GAY

>>16012969
Russian here.
We don't have "is".
We also don't have "the" or "a/an"

Turns out you fucking don't need them at all and they're just filler words.

This is a good point

>>16013225
>they're just filler words
they seem to me at this very moment filler words

>>16013235
That besides point.

>>16012969
Most dilettante shit i've read in a while

>>16012969
You is retarded. There is a reason that the English language is beautiful and all others are not.

>>16013261
English language is literal garbage. Too many useless filler words, too many useless synonyms, shit grammar that doesn't allow any leeway, inconsistent pronunciation, complete lack of cases and forms, words aren't gendered, random Latin and French... list goes on

>>16013277
Read some poetry, friend

>>16012969
me tarzan, you e-prime

>>16013285
I do.
In Russian.

>>16013249
That seems at this very moment besides the point.
>>16013260
Most dilettante shit I seem at this very moment to have read in a while
>>16013261
You seem at this very moment to me retarded. There seems at this very moment to me that the English language seems to me at the very moment beautiful and all others seem tome at this very moment not.

cringe thread

>>16013225
monkey here, we only have huh huh hah hah turns out every other word is filler

>>16013331
Seethe more anglocuck.

>>16013331
*it seems to me at this very moment a cringe thread

>>16012969
2 plus 2 is equal to 4. It does not "seem" that way. It IS that way.

>>16013350
English is not even my first language, also not seething over such retarded and foolish arguments

>>16013312
good post

>not distinguishing doxa and episteme
brainlet detected

seethe harder, becoming-cucks. English is inherently an essentialist language

>>16013372
*2 plus 2 seem to me at this very moment 4
no need for dogmatic thinking

>>16013058
>The New American Standard Bible in E-Prime

>>16013372
2+2 = 11
2+2 = 10

>>16013277
You're probably just not a master of the English language.

>>16013277
>filler
English having so many words is one of it's strengths because it allows users a broader and more fine use of descriptions without depending on cultural context, or worse, ambiguity.

But you probably think choices are double notgood

This seems to me right now to be the worst thread on /lit/

>>16012969
In English, the verb "to be" ("is") has three main meanings:

1) existence (corresponding to the existential quantifier)
2) identity (aka '='; when two names or definite descriptions refer to the same thing)
3) predication (i.e., the actual copula)

For logical purposes, it would be helpful to have a different English word or construction for each meaning. But eliminating the word "is" is just ridiculous.

thank you for making this post, i shall take it into consideration and employ it into my vocabulary when possible

>>16014151
>allows users a broader and more fine use of descriptions without depending on cultural context, or worse, ambiguity.
English has absolutely superfluous words like "poison"/"venom" or "turtle"/"tortoise" but doesn't have a simple word for a
"bouquiniste" which exists basically in every other European language. Imagine actually saying "second-hand and antiquarian books bookseller".

>>16012969
Because only noble souls are able to tackle ÓNTOS

Ignoble souls are only able to grasp phenomena and existance

>>16014228
In the English language, the verb 'to be' (also known as the copula) has several distinct functions:
>identity, of the form "noun copula definite-noun" [The cat is my only pet]; [The cat is Garfield]
>class membership, of the form "definite-noun copula noun" [Garfield is a cat]
>class inclusion, of the form "noun copula noun" [A cat is an animal]
>predication, of the form "noun copula adjective" [The cat is furry]
>auxiliary, of the form "noun copula verb" [The cat is sleeping]; [The cat is being bitten by the dog]. The examples illustrate two different uses of 'be' as an auxiliary. In the first, 'be' is part of the progressive aspect, used with "-ing" on the verb; in the second, it is part of the passive, as indicated by the perfect participle of a transitive verb.
>existence, of the form "there copula noun" [There is a cat]
>location, of the form "noun copula place-phrase" [The cat is on the mat]; [The cat is here]
Bourland sees specifically the "identity" and "predication" functions as pernicious, but advocates eliminating all forms for the sake of simplicity. In the case of the "existence" form (and less idiomatically, the "location" form), one might (for example) simply substitute the verb "exists". Other copula-substitutes in English include taste, feel, smell, sound, grow, remain, stay, and turn, among others a user of E-prime might use instead of to be.

>>16013195
>they don't use that word at all.
That's what anon meant. Just because it's not used doesn't mean that it's grammatically incorrect to use it. Omission is just the overwhelmingly common practice, that has become accepted as a de-facto rule. Japanese omits the copula too all the time, but it's not wrong to include it.
Or "whom" in English, it's falling in disuse, and a lot of people just use "who" instead.
If Russian truly didn't use "is" at all as a copula, then a grammar book would surely mention it.

>>16014295
>then a grammar book would surely mention it.
any intro to Russian grammar for English speakers will mention this

>>16012969
This is just autism. But I could say the same about "talent".
Just, what is talent? Something people were born naturally good at? Hell no, that makes no sense. If someone is good at something at a good age that means they either practiced it a lot or they're high IQ, as simple as that.

You guys should really stop using the word "talent" it's idiotic.

>>16014242
One injests poison, but injects venom. A turtle swims, a tortoise does not.

>>16014292
Yeah, I saw that list. All the functions other than identity and existence are just forms of predication (set membership, basically). So you have '∃', '=', and '∈'.

In terms of prose style, sure, the active voice is usually preferable. That alone gets rid of a lot of predicative 'is's.

>>16014242
as a chad language English will simply take ' bouquiniste and mispronounce it, and there you go, we have it, in fact it's more ours than yours.

>>16014358
Bourland and other advocates also suggest that use of E-Prime leads to a less dogmatic style of language that reduces the possibility of misunderstanding or conflict.

Kellogg and Bourland describe misuse of the verb to be as creating a "deity mode of speech", allowing "even the most ignorant to transform their opinions magically into god-like pronouncements on the nature of things".

>>16014334
I thought about that as well. A Russian grammar written for native speakers may give additional details about the evolution and usage of certain features. I remember that my grammar textbook talked about how certain alternative spellings for the plural form of some words were becoming widely accepted.

>WHEN ONE REMEMBERS ONE'S «ROBERT ANTON WILSON PHASE».


...

>>16014242
>absolutely superfluous words like "poison"/"venom" or "turtle"/"tortoise"
Please tell me you're a ESL.
>Imagine actually saying "second-hand and antiquarian books bookseller"
Antique shop? Junk shop? Flea market?

>>16013277
>words aren't gendered
Opening a real nasty can of worms here but what seems to be at the moment the used of gendered words? I can't fathom why an apple should be male/female.

>>16014693
>I can't fathom why an apple should be male/female.
Of course you can't, shitlord.

>>16013277
Name a better language.
I would maybe concede a Germanic (German, Dutch, Swedish, etc) one.
>French
>literal society dedicated to preventing taint in a language instead of letting it evolve
>'Pomme de terre'
>Spanish
>Very little literature worth reading in Spanish. Borges, maybe.
>imagine wanting to speak to Spaniards, or even worse, Mexicans
>Italians
>Again, what population speaks Italian that you'd want to talk to
>imagine learning a language with over a hundred words and phrases for noodles, but not one for saying no to bribes
>Polish
>Already know 'Where's my car/money/wallet, bitch' in Polish, good to go
>Russian
>lol

>>16014361
>One injests poison, but injects venom. A turtle swims, a tortoise does not.
I'm sure this distinction is very useful and meaningful for non-biologists.
>>16014371
Yet English hasn't.
>>16014513
>Please tell me you're a ESL.
Well, you made an ass out of yourself by supposing that
>Antique shop? Junk shop? Flea market?
in any way is equivalent to "person selling antiquarian or used books", so I'm not sure how it helps your argument.

>>16016394
its useful for everyone because they mean different things? fucktard

>>16015130
Ok, monolingual anglocuck

>>16014151
Russian has half as many words but is much richer nonetheless because its measly 70k words are NOT fucking filler

>>16015130
>Name a better language
Russian.

Where did this idea that English has "superfluous words" come from? It's literally the most efficient language in existence.

>>16013554
>based

>>16016394
>I'm sure this distinction is very useful and meaningful for non-biologists.
It's also useful if you don't want to fear being bitten by a mushroom.

>>16014242
A shop selling second-hand cheap books and a shop selling several century old expensive relics are very different (especially if you are a poorfag).

>>16013225
Almost every from example from >>16014292 is the same in Russian, but with no explicit is word.

>>16017590
*every example

Ah yes, so we can imitate such enlightened people as the Turks

>>16017565
Somehow 99.99% of world languages do just fine without this "distinction". By that rationale "poison" says nothing about the way it enters the body either - poisonous South American frogs excrete poison through their skin, so you suffer just by touching it, why is there no special word for that?
>>16017580
>old expensive relics are very different
Excellent strawman, dumbo, except I'm not talking about the Guthenberg Bible or Kufic Qur'an. *Bouquiniste* also deal with books out of circulation that may not be considered "antiquarian" but are valuable all the same and cannot be purchased at any book shop, or just old editions that are not printed anymore. Typologically it's all the same, there's no qualitative distinction about how old or expensive books are. The vast majority of *bouquinistic* sites offer a wide array of books with price tags ranging from $10s to $1000s.

>>16012969
>I don't know what anything "is";

ENTER

>ITT: english native retards who know jack shit about the other languages think english is the best in the world

>>16017836
Granted English is my native tongue, but I speak two other languages and still believe it's the best of the three.

>>16017864
Have you seen Arabic? It's easily one of the most complex, rich languages out there. One of the hardest too.

>>16017916
Yes, although I don't speak any of them, I'm familiar with the many dielects of Arabic and their complexity; and the complexity of many other of the world's languages. This familiarity has led me to believe that languages cannot be easily placed on a two-dimensional axis named "complexity", with the "good" languages occupying one end of this axis, and the "bad" ones the other.

>>16012969
How does E-Prime justify using any verbs then?

It sure seems like a whole lotta types of thoughts no longer occur if you wanna write this way.