/lit/ - Literature

>>15965279
Only the climate is a threat. Disparity is not a bad thing, and BLM is retarded.

The left was the only way to actually address these problems, unfortunately, it was all co-opted by capitalist-comsumerist "democracy" long ago, and now everyone will happily circlejerk online about what they "think" about what some shithead wrote, because, you see, that is simply you can buy into, and make your own identity the brand, while you keep shitting plastic into the oceans, living a life you hate, on the backs of Asian slaves, and think anything at all you will ever "think" means fuck all

>>15965291
>Disparity is not a bad thing
Elaborate. I think that disparity (i.e. hierarchies) are normal despite those at the bottom suffering, but we should at least economically elevate those people to ease up on the suffering so to speak, no?

>>15965279
BLM movement aims to demilitarize the police, weakening the state's power to suppress opposition to capitalism. It is an early stage of the war. Fight were the battle is.

fisher actually wrote about that in an essay called "exiting the vampire castle". it's pretty good.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/exiting-vampire-castle/

>>15965567
>BLM movement aims to demilitarize the police, weakening the state's power to suppress opposition to capitalism.
I can't wait for a third of the US to become a ghetto shithole overnight.

>>15965567
I don't get it Televisions are cheap, why don't just buy one?

>>15965622
I can't wait for half of the world population to be displaced by rising sea-levels and drought. I can't wait for catastrophic ecological collapse. I can't wait for people to be reduced even further to mere laboring animals. I can't wait for consumerism to swallow up the last remnants of real culture. I can't wait for the President Bezos McHellscape.

I thought about stopping it, but it order to do that I'd have to take away the police's ability to murder black people... guess the human race is fucked, oopsies!

>>15965567
>>15965622
demilitarizing police will lead to increased racial segregation; no white person wants to live in an unpoliced neighborhood

>>15965567
Less state would bring in more capitalism. Not that I'm against it though.

>>15965974
cringe

>>15965974
You understood me wrong. I'm genuinely looking forward to a major portion of the US becoming a ghetto shithole. Most of the vermin will get shot and killed in the first week, while the rest will OD in a lake of their own piss, and we'll be spared of them.

>>15965409
It depends what it takes to do that. The problem with the current 'movement' is that it is seeking the abolition of any sorts of performance standards for anything, in favour of racial quotas. That's probably the death of a society, because you are trading the future (the promotion of merit and competence) for present political concerns (racial patronage). You will never reach the stars with that approach. Your society will not 'advance' in the broad technological sense when its primary schools are steadily destroyed because it is 'racist' to expel troublemakers or to sort students by test scores/achievement. Seattle Public Schools is trying to abolish its own 'gifted' programs due to racial disparities in enrollment. New York City wants to turn its top high schools (Stuyvesant, etc.) into quota-based admissions systems rather than test-based. The whole 'prison abolition' movement is based on the desire to drag the rest of society into the gutter by destroying public safety and security.

You don't build the future by pouring all of your present-day resources into your weakest and lowest-performing people. You build it by amplifying your strengths and by promoting your geniuses. That may sound harsh, but it's also probably why China will pull ahead of the US in the longer-term. They don't have the kind of manias and illusions suffered by the modern US.

>>15965279
>yet if I try to raise these issues in a polite manner, I feel like I'd be pegged a racist for putting BLM in the back seat of things

the solution is to stop living in america. abandon the great satan as a lost cause.

>>15966012
based and ''so to speak'' pilled

>>15965279
>the left has failed to adequately address the looming climate threat, stagnating wages and subsequent loss of culture, and mental health.

That's because "The Left" doesn't exist. The only thing that exists is the HR department of capitalism.

>>15965279
what's left of an organized left is stuck fighting rearguard actions for the dying welfare state

>>15965291
The entire basis of capitalism relies on the fact that for an owner of capital to make a profit, they must employ laborers who are paid out of the revenue. Profits and labor wages are linked, ensuring that both owners of capital and laborers can become enriched. The rise of technology and the globalization of the labor market has resulted in an imbalance of power leading to the most profitable time in human history while we are currently in a 40+ year stagnation of wages. This is simply going to continue becoming more and more imbalanced and the wealth of our nations will become more and more concentrated until all land is owned by a tiny handful of landed elites while everyone else will be completely at their mercy. If you can't see this coming you aren't paying attention

>>15967263
only if you take the rhetoric at face value, the movement today is actual a collection of ethnic groups positioning themselves for grievance-based rent seeking and that is absolutely a consequence of stagnant wages and declining living standards

>>15967408
You should stop laboring under the illusion that liberals and in general supporters of capitalism think there's anything wrong about the monopolization of economic power because that's precisely what they want.

>>15965567
Kek this just fucks over middle class people. Richoids have and will just get more private security in this case

>>15967444
That's just wrong. People -- liberals and supporters of capitalism -- dislike monopolization and corporatism. There should be a healthy relationship between a company and its consumers.

Also, you'll find the people who love globalism -- which also entails inorganic ballooning of labor via H1 visas, et al., are both extreme capitalists and leftist; they're both pro-corporate in essence, one is just more honest about it.

>>15967619
They can say they dislike it in public all they want, but they never do anything to stop it and they always stop legislation that could stop it in practice.

Liberals like to posture about being moral and principled, but their words are worth the value of a shitstained mattress.

>>15967660
>Liberals like to posture about being moral and principled, but their words are worth the value of a shitstained mattress.
This applies to everyone, not just liberals

>>15967818
Not really. Nazis are pretty straight forward about what they believe and rarely lie about their intentions in wanting to murder large amounts of people for political and racist reasons.

But you gave the other guy you were talking to a whole litany of problems caused by capitalism, like wages being stagnant and wealth being concentrated, and these are issues liberals don't give a shit about and they never have because they usually live materially comfortable lives themselves and couldn't give a rat's ass about the plebs.

>>15965279
>the looming climate threat
>loss of culture
>mental health
All of these are sub-threats created by excessive consumption of digital goods and meat. Why would anyone bother to address anything in the real, left or right, when they can make a Twitter post about it? Everyone BTFO by uncle Ted yet again.

>>15967884
Maybe on here, but not when they're in public recruiting incels.

>>15967902
>nazis
>incels
>in public

Shiggy

>>15967924
You underestimate the shithole that is the USA

>>15967902
Incels rarely turn into Nazis, because incels actually have a deep yearning to be accepted and respected by contemporary society, but Nazis hate contemporary society.

The incel fantasy isn't to be Joker or Hitler, it's to be Batman or Superman.

>>15967619
The modern western left supports globalisation whole-heartedly through mass-immigration. I don't think that an 'anti-immigration'/nativist left even exists anymore. The last holdouts were probably some of the French communists, who have traditionally had a more regionalist outlook than other leftist groups. But for the most part, all of the immigration sceptics have been thoroughly purged from the modern left. You'd have to go to Asia or elsewhere to find an anti-immigration leftism.

>>15967949
Yeah and this one event btfod them so hard they barely show up in public

>>15967953
i see your point but historically incels end up Joker or Hitler, you cant deny this. Virginia state shooter, Elliot SupremeGentleman Bmw virgin, Columbine shooters... like, dont push this false narrative

I was an incel 10 years ago and I can say from experience.. being accepted wasnt my goal, I was just a selfish kid mad at the world

>>15968037
Most incels are just socially awkward guys, they aren't mass murderers, this is just statistics.

>>15965279
I already explained it to you dummy, truly left wing class-based politics is a losing game because genuinely empathetic, anti-sadist ideologues are incredibly rare and in reality the vast majority of people only respect and pursue power. The forming religion of anti-racism in the west is based on American negro worship al a Freud, these idpol movements are nothing more than an pretense to suck nigger dick, because yankees crave the BBC since its libidinal energy is perceived as a powerful rising force, and the mutts have polluted the rest of the world with their sensibilities.

You can't unfuck this world because almost nobody really wants to unfuck it, they want to suck the big dick or be the big dick, they crave the sado-masochist dynamic and glorify slave morality. Actual egalitarian progress is about as far away from the average person's mind as God is when a "devout" teenage girl gets railed in the ass to avoid losing her virginity, it's all affect. The only way out of this is either extinction or the STEM nerds achieving a transhumanist victory and altering the common man's psychology as to be unrecognizable, i.e. a posthuman/ubermensch.

>>15966063
i saw some meh looking black dude with braids and glasses working at walmart wearing this mask

what does it mean i'm not eternally online so idk

>>15965279
Based and classpilled

>>15967884
Okay, I should have been more specific, it applies to both the mainstreams of left and right. What is needed is a more focused populist movement to shore up the fundamentals of the system first and foremost before addressing lower importance things which are more connected with the personality tendencies of those who lean left or right

>>15967408
The wealth disparity beetween the top and bottom was seen long ago by all proponents of the free market. It is acknowledged with the understanding that the prosperity brought about by the free market will make the common man far better off than he would have been under a command/planned economy.
Wage stagnation is an overblown issue. Looking at real median income, it has remained relatively stable since the late 70's, when this data started being collected. However, nobody would argue that the average person in the 70's was materially better off than the average person in 2020. What has changed is the basket of consumer goods used to measure inflation (via the consumer price index). This basket changes annually to reflect changes in consumer purchasing patterns. These changes add new technologies to the basket which are widespread among consumers, as well as remove old products which have become obsolete. This is done in an attempt to approximate the cost of living of an average person.
What matters more than increasing wages at this point, with regards to increasing the standard of living of the average person, is increasing the technology level of society.
I suggest you read "Basic Economics" by Thomas Sowell, he addresses all of your concerns in the various chapters of the book, and while some people around here like to badmouth him, the reality is that he's an economist who studied under two of the most important economists of the 20th century (Friedman and Stigler) and was a close friend of both of them. His intellect is only dismissed by those who've never read his works.

Marx’s works are disgusting and he was an evil man. Worse than Hitler.
His texts advocate taking away guns, pro-homosexuality, anti-Americanism, and transgender rights. The downfall of western civilization can be traced directly to his philosophy where he invented communism.

I’m convinced that modern conservativism is the only ideology with working class interests in mind. Marxism is the antithesis of that, and Marxists hate hard-working rural laborers, and seek the downfall of America and western civilization.

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/g5x5ny/why-i-quit-being-a-climate-activist

>>15969686
What the fuck happened to 'Vice'? They used to have some interesting stuff back in the 00's/early-10's (including famous reports like the one on the Liberian civil war). What went wrong for them since then? Now, it's full of silly blather and tedious lectures.

>>15969700
SJWs, the same ones who ruin everything else.

>>15969700
no way to tell. it's really quite spooky.

>>15969700
Wasn't that guy who's the leader of the proud boys still involved in vice back then? Pretty sure he founded it actually

The late 2010's and early 2020's upheavals were predicted 10 years ago by a relatively simple model that accounts for elite infighting, income inequality, number of 18-29 y.o. people, etc. The same analysis was retroactively applied to many civil wars and revolutions throughout history and the results were pretty consistent: wars, revolutions and upheavals follow pretty deterministic patterns. The thing that's impossible to predict, is the trigger, the casus belli. In-depth paper: https://escholarship.org/uc/item/6qp8x28p
2020 prediction: https://www.nature.com/articles/463608a

>Quantitative historical analysis reveals that complex human societies are affected by recurrent — and predictable — waves of political instability (P. Turchin and S. A. Nefedov Secular Cycles Princeton Univ. Press; 2009). In the United States, we have stagnating or declining real wages, a growing gap between rich and poor, overproduction of young graduates with advanced degrees, and exploding public debt. These seemingly disparate social indicators are actually related to each other dynamically. They all experienced turning points during the 1970s. Historically, such developments have served as leading indicators of looming political instability
>Very long 'secular cycles' interact with shorter-term processes. In the United States, 50-year instability spikes occurred around 1870, 1920 and 1970, so another could be due around 2020. We are also entering a dip in the so-called Kondratiev wave, which traces 40-60-year economic-growth cycles. This could mean that future recessions will be severe. In addition, the next decade will see a rapid growth in the number of people in their twenties, like the youth bulge that accompanied the turbulence of the 1960s and 1970s. All these cycles look set to peak in the years around 2020.

On the other hand the rate of profit is falling (empirically proven [1]), which makes the contradictions accelerate: median living conditions become increasingly unbearable, inequality between the working population and the elite skyrockets, etc. (coronavirus and climate change are just accelerating the process). The question is not if, but when, will capitalism collapse. Two options at that point: regression, the elite fights back and wins (fascism, neo-feudalism, apocalyptic-tier world wars, pick your poison) or progression, the working class fights back and wins (socialism, which means the long term construction of post-scarcity society i.e. communism).

[1]: https://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/55894/1/MPRA_paper_55894.pdf
>The downward trend of the rate of profit, its empirical confirmation, highlights the historically limited nature of capitalist production. If the rate of profit marks the vitality of the system, the logical conclusion is that it approaches further to an endpoint.

>>15969794
>Democrats pull a bunch of election year tricks
>He thinks capitalism is about to collapse

for a "critical" thinker, you got brainlet takes, son

>>15969814
no idea what the "Democrats" are m8, is that like a burgerfat thing? lmao

>>15965279
I finished it a couple of days ago. The left doesn’t want to address the problems Fischer presents in his book because they don’t want their sponsors to suffer. It’s plain and simple. BLM was born not because of police brutality but out of necessity to end anything Occupy Wall Street related.

>>15965567
>weakening the state's power to suppress opposition to capitalism

Imagine believing Colin Kaepernick and fucking Beyonce are going to suppress capitalism using BLM

>>15967421
Leftism and progressivism today is entirely a battle for status. That's it, all they want are the same lives that Boomers had. They wouldn't LARP as socialists if they were all financially stable and socially acceptable, instead they're the atomized dregs of society that survive off of how much they project their inferiority for things like "diversity" and "representation"

>>15968107
It's scary to know those are our only options, and I'm disillusioned enough to understand the futility in trying to prevent it. I won't stop you from actualizing the transhumanist new age, but in return, please afford me the courtesy of letting me know when the dark grey cloud of nanobots is coming so I can throw myself into a wood chipper and not be enveloped by the grey cloud and have my brain digitized and reconstructed.

>>15970023
blm is a capitalism movement thinly veiled as marxist, anyone not blinded by americanism can see this

>>15965279
Why do you think the climate threat is real when everything else the usual suspects push is a falsehood?

>>15969922
what a shit take

>>15969922
Today I will remind them that it's an election year

>>15970110
It's not even veiled as Marxism it's blatantly a capitalist ploy, every HR department in the West is adopting woke language and putting BLM stickers on every capital in the country. Demands to abolish the police are from a small fringe group of leftists in the internet, and police reform will just keep the same system we already have regardless. So what we have are a bunch of protests organized by the elites and supported by the average person where they riot and protest for the sake of rioting and protesting just to live fantasies of struggle and revolution while Disney and Netflix make more documentaries about slavery (Portland right now is the best example, it's the most liberal city in the country next to LA and most of it is white or East Asian)

>>15970196
It’s the truth, Jamal. Face it, your people are being handled like the pawns they are. Watch BLM disappear the day after the American election is over. See >>15970202

>>15970224
A lot of them are just bored and have no prospects for the future so they go out and pretend it's 1965. This is what happens when the herd isn't socialized for months.

>>15970240
Reminder that every black Civil Rights leader was on the white payroll and they all did basically nothing once getting elected. The easiest way to control a city or a country is to install a black government and bribe them.

>>15970224
I find this Netflix-sponsored “anti” system movement amazing. The yas-queen revolutionaries living in a twisted rom-com where they’re “fighting” the same people that is funding their movement. This shit is hilarious if their antics aren’t affecting you. Ted K was frighteningly right when it comes to social commentary.

>>15965279
>yet if I try to raise these issues in a polite manner, I feel like I'd be pegged a racist for putting BLM in the back seat of things
Maybe by white liberals or black boomers. Or you'd delivery sucks. There isn't even any need to pick one over the other. Wealth disparity is one the of biggest enabler of racism and ecological damage is going to hit the coloreds and poors the hardest. On the other hand, helping blacks to get randomly shot less, and seeing people activism like that success generally, might win more supporters for the bigger issues.

>when Colin Kaepernick took a knee to the flag in the name of racial inequality and ended up getting millions of dollars of sponsorship money from Nike for so doing so.
Where is the problem? He never stopped talking about the problem or changed his tune after he got the Nike-bucks. Just because capitalists are always try to make a buck, doesn't mean they corrupt the case. Long-term thinking isn't the strengt of the model.

>>15970023
The fun thing about movements is that they can move without support of celebs. A lot of the actual activists are already anti-capitalist and people who'll get teargassed at a peaceful demonstration are likely to rethink whether being moderate is enough.

>>15970240
the implication that any of these protesters would support any sort of brand or corporate sponsor is a joke. I thought your type classified all of them as communists, which one is it?

>>15970202
how is this surprising in the least. 2015/2016 saw tons of high profile police killing as did 2020 and then average that out over five years and those spikes make complete sense

>>15969765
he left in 2006

>>15970333
Besides, people generally get more interested in political cases near elections and forget politics exists before and after.

>>15970300
So BlackLivesMatter can operate without the support from HR departments, corporations, academia, journalism, the mass media? Even when that's where BLM thrives in? I hope you realize the average person isn't getting tear gassed at a protest, they're posting Woke infographs on their Instagram stories about white privilege and black screens in solidarity. If you think wanting statues to be taken down hurts the system then I don't know what to tell you.

Even if they do claim to hate the system, so what? The Boomers in the counterculture hated the system and ended up controlling it, even the radical terrorists like the Weathermen ended up becoming prominent academics and lawyers who make millions. That's the point of the book in OP, any anti-capitalism or activist movement is commodified into capitalism. BlackLivesMatter is just your average progressive liberal movement LARPing as a revolution because leftists like you desperately want to feel some sort of status change even when you have the backing of the very system you define your life as being in opposition to.

>>15970325
This fucking guy. Are you 14, a retard or black? Is this bait? This has to be bait, you cheeky kent

>>15970333
>police brutality magically aligned itself with election year

>>15970359
>BlackLivesMatter can operate without the support from HR departments, corporations, academia, journalism, the mass media?
There been more controversial groups who managed fine without all of the support.

>Even when that's where BLM thrives in?
Thrives there how? It's surprising corporations even pretend to care but guess most idiots realized that too much racism is simply bad for business.
> I hope you realize the average person isn't getting tear gassed at a protest,
There are tons of average fucks who never knew a thing about activism going to protests in the recent years.
>If you think wanting statues to be taken down hurts the system then I don't know what to tell you.
>implying it's anywhere near the main goal
>implying not praising slavers and the likes isn't going to have an impact on culture in a few generations
Come on. Though sure, it's unlikely to have much of an effect against capitalism.
>any anti-capitalism or activist movement is commodified into capitalism
Which might backfire eventually or force capitalism to adjust from within. Some of the largest revolutions so far were sponsored by Capitalists trying to be clever.
>leftists like you desperately want to feel some sort of status change
I don't expect any revolution from BLM, they are way too soft for that. They might force to get some concessions from the system and make lives slightly better for non crackers.

I'm not even sure if I count as leftist since I'm less opposed to Capitalism and more about some of the effects it causes, and these could be fixed without a system change but by getting it out of the business of necessary goods. It being broken and in need of reform is obvious even to most billionaires, so some sort of change short-term seems almost given.

>>15969794
good post but you completely misunderstand capitalism. characterising communism as "post-scarcity" is laughable, and the chances that elites will abandon capitalism for statist fascism are slim unless they seeing themselves guaranteed (by some technological advantage) to win the world war

Far more likely is that your "neo-feudalism' keeps capitalism, but just runs it more brutally towards the working class ala china.
"Capitalism" is undeniably more effective and true to nature, and its not going collapse short of some world-government level of control of all humanity

>>15970333
>high profile police killing
"High profile" is whatever the media says is "high profile", which means only when it's opposite day when whites kill blacks, and not all the slaughter blacks commit against every single race every other day of the year.

>>15970300
>helping blacks to get randomly shot less

Well, the exact opposite is happening right now. Blacks in liberal-run cities are getting shot A LOT more this year across the US. And leftist mayors are completely refusing to do anything about it.

Wow you really just weaved that all in your little noggin of yours didn't you?
Fucking retard thinks "the left" has some kind of central presence in America AND that they're leading the charge in police justice.

>>15965279
You do realise politics exists outside of America, right? Before the virus, there were waves of protests across the globe. And even within America, the "Green New Deal" was a legitimate political talking point.

Climate activism can be commodified as well. Look at how extinction rebellion is littered with white bourgeoisie who think that battling climate change is merely fashionable. How can one fight for the Earth if every action you make can be commodified/ is a Simulacrum/ is part of the Spectacle?

>>15970527
But none of that is anti-capitalism. the Green New Deal is just a reform of current policies, the industrialization that drives climate change won't go away

>>15970516
>Fucking retard thinks "the left" has some kind of central presence in America AND that they're leading the charge in police justice.
It would be more accurate to say that leftists have subverted and ruined the movement for police reform with their idiotic communist bullshit.

>>15970541
Yes, I agree with you. But this doesn't mean that "the left" isn't addressing the climate emergency. Even if it is in a neo-liberal/ democrat way.

>>15970527
>every action you make can be commodified/ is a Simulacrum/ is part of the Spectacle?
Why do you think that matters?

>>15970505
>chances that elites will abandon capitalism for statist fascism are slim unless they seeing themselves guaranteed (by some technological advantage) to win the world war
They'd do it out of necessity. Capitalists have a lot of tricks for keeping the rate of profit dropping to dangerously low values (one of them is war), but they can't do it forever: eventually the planet gets too hot or the wars get too bloody, and as Turchin demonstrated, at that point it's only a matter of time before revolution erupts.

>>15970505
>"Capitalism" is undeniably more effective and true to slave nature
ftfy

>>15969138
The point is that consumer commodities (large screen TVs for example) have become way more affordable for all people, but things like buying property is quickly becoming practically unobtainable for more and more people in more and more places. Home ownership is one of the bedrock achievements, not just signifying a person/family has "made it", but it offers the kind of financial stability that can anchor a family. Everyday we are shifting more and more to a renting market in terms of living space, and this is horrible for the aforementioned reasons but also it disconnects people from their community and country. Someone who owns property has a lot more incentive to be engaged with society than someone who just makes enough week to week to pay the rent. These are undeniable trends, and as far as historical precedents, it tends to lead to revolution at the most extreme, widespread social unrest as the mildest

>>15969177
Modern conservatism has been utterly corrupted by the two principles of "trickle down" (meaning give big business all the breaks and it will help the small guy, a proven lie) and the of "government spending doesn't stimulate the economy" (another blatant lie which has been exposed recently in connection with the $1200 checks being mailed to the public boosting consumer spending). Modern conservatism is just pro-business and anti-working class. This is without going into the fact that both the modern mainstream right and left are actively anti-union, further driving down worker's leverage and ability to earn fair wages

>>15970582
Would it not negate meaning? Pic related marched in Atlanta claiming to be the "Black Panther Revolutionaries Atlanta Chapter." It was later found that they were just a group of actors, mimicking the panthers of the 20th century.

Don't you think that the messages of anti-racism and anti-police brutality is somewhat clouded by the fact that it was a performance? What happens when a movement is completely removed from meaning, merely pantomiming supposedly "revolutionary" actions of the past. Do you really think that could land any impact?

>>15969794
based. UBI when?

>>15970106
no, you're going to eat the fucking goo too goy. but perhaps it's not as bad as you think.

>>15970511
Pretty sure majors aren't in charge of budgets to give darkies corona relief bucks.

>>15970602
Spoken as someone with no skills or capital, sure, you will probably have better chances as part of the reactionary left, assuming your movement manages to achieve anything at all.

By true to nature, all I mean is that markets naturally select for efficiency and competence. It's also the path of least resistance that allows collaboration from people of wildly different cultures. Whereas your collaborators have to be brainwashed into all becoming the same type of ideologue. Swimming against a pretty rough current but GL anyways

>>15970602
>no u
the absolute state of marxists

>>15970527
>the "Green New Deal" was a legitimate political talking point.
No, it wasn’t, you delusional fuck

>>15970642
>Would it not negate meaning?
We're talking about climate change.
If you're investing millions of dollars into renewable energies just to look good in front of your neoliberal friends, does it matter if you don't actually give a shit about the planet?
I'm all for renewable energies because I fucking hate Muslims, and don't want them to be able to profit off of their oil.

>>15970541
You're addressing it but the capitalist realism as described in the book inherently renders the conversation in Neoliberal pretenses of reform rather than replacement. That kinda proves the thesis of the book

>>15970658
>rich forcing poors work for them or die is "collaboration"
But yeah, that's the fault of the slaves for being born without capital.

>>15970661
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_New_Deal#Supporters
Wow all these people are SURE irrelevant!

>>15970678
>>15970561

>>15970684
It was such a bad joke their own party refused to vote on it.

>>15970684
It was such a shitty idea you can only consider it smoke and mirrors. It was laughed at by anyone with half a brain. Even most of Reddit wouldn’t fall for it and that’s saying a lot

>>15970660
I'm not a Marxist. Capitalism should be rightly understood as a non-aristocratic slave system though.

>>15970721
No, it shouldn't.

>>15970700
>republicans lite would protest anything against their dogma
Shocking.

Obviously GND has no chance of passing while boomers won't have to deal with the consequences of their consumerism but it's hardly the problem with the plan. Burgerland is just too backwards and polarized for any common sense legislation on a wider level.

>>15970721
>Capitalism should be rightly understood as a non-aristocratic slave system though.
Not a bad take but vague enough to fire up unnecessary pedantic debates

>>15970678
I was responding to the idea that "the left" is inactive or does nothing to confront climate change, and they are largely focusing on racial matters. Sure, politicians will be reformist on stuff like climate change and BLM. But I don't think that the international left is doing nothing but idpol and ignoring climate change.

>>15970700
>>15970713
Samefag ignoring the point

>>15970674
And I hate Saudi Arabia. But if your point and my point was stolen and put on a t-shirt to be sold then wouldn't your hatred be dulled? If something becomes a commodity, then it can be dismissed and taken as an object. The medium becomes the message.

>>15970586
>too hot
Disproportionally affects the poor more than the capitalists, who can afford to move.
>wars get too bloody
Our present but by no means indefinite status quo. If this isn't ready when it comes time to let some pressure out, they'll go the inflation route instead. More chunks out of the poor, the welfare state, the petty bourgiese, anyone the game hasn't been working for so the ones who are still in it can play a bit longer.
This is where your revolution would come in, and where I dont have a lot of optimism for the unorganised masses of today, or the fate of anyone willing and able to organise them, as history has shown.

>>15970684
>>15970700
>>15970713
The worst part about environmentalism is the celebrities who rant and rave about it.
Without even mentioning "global warming", there are tons of reasons to support developing renewable energies and obtaining energy self sufficiency, but all the "big names" in environmentalism are children, retards, and retarded children.
And then you have leftists who complain that all these environmentalist organizations are too white, because only white people actually give a shit about environmentalism.

>>15970740
"New Green Deal" was from the democrats, retard.

>>15970747
>can’t even get who is samefagging right no wonder he can’t tell what a disaster that shit new deal was

>>15970769
So? It's not like there is a huge partly split between people who want it to go left centre and the usual neoliberals, r-right?

>>15970747
>But if your point and my point was stolen and put on a t-shirt to be sold then wouldn't your hatred be dulled?
No.
Now I want a shirt that says "FUCK MUSLIMS. FUCK SAUDI ARABIA. GO GREEN."

>>15970772
I was never pro-Green New Deal, you inspect element using samefaggot, I was just noting it's popularity. Maybe if your reading comprehension progressed past the 4th grade you would understand that.

>>15970748
Seeing the Arab spring, the masses aren't too bad at organizing and overthrowing regimes. It's the next step that's tricky.

>>15970777
You were wrong, just take the L retard.

>>15970800
>I was just noting it's popularity.
And both me and the other anon are saying that it wasn't actually popular, because it was fucking retarded. It was so retarded that the democrats abstained from voting on it. All it did was make environmentalists look insane, which actual environmentalists hated even more than everyone else.

>>15970679
You're saying it's evil that new entrants to the world are forced to collaborate with the olds already firmly in control of it.
I'm sympathetic but what's the alternative? We feed and house every new arrival to our already somewhat overpopulated earth to what end? Resources are limited either way. Isn't it more fair to select for those that try to collaborate and add value to the lives of everyone else alive?
What I'm saying is get some skills u pleb

>>15970832
Convincing argument.

>>15970748
>Disproportionally affects the poor more than the capitalists, who can afford to move
Which proves my point. That'd only create more of a disconnect between elites and the working majority, which puts even more societal stress into Turchin's equations.

>This is where your revolution would come in, and where I dont have a lot of optimism for the unorganised masses of today, or the fate of anyone willing and able to organise them, as history has shown
See Chile's 2019 spring, France's gilet jaunes, Arab spring and hell, even the current protests in the USA. People can organize. It's the politics behind it that are lacking, people are too bourgois-pilled still.

>>15970642
all revolution is acting in some respect

>>15970609
the revolution will be managed by the Sackler family. Even now they are working on a regimen of Oxycotin-based release capsules to regulate wrongthink in either direction.

>>15970359
Boomers never controlled the counter-culture. Jewish silent generation parasites with control over the wheels of culture (Beatnik Poets, Big Pharma, Record Label Execs) set the tune and the Boomers marched.

>>15970294
Ted K. was beyond wrong. He was telling Whitey that there was a future left if they followed out his revolutionary programme. The jig as soon as the first GIs made landfall in North Africa.

>>15970090
You wish. This is entirely managed social ventilation from upstairs and will do nothing to meaningfully disrupt boomer accumulation. The Boomers are Israelites and the Jews are Levites. The Boomers will not survive to see the promised land, but Joshua, son of the high priest of Levi, will lead their cowed descendants into the promised land as a group of illiterate, bush-smoking tribals

>>15970800
Nice backpedaling, you dumbass.

>>15970892
>Ted K. was beyond wrong. He was telling Whitey that there was a future left if they followed out his revolutionary programme.
You either skimmed through his manifesto or someone told you about it. Either way, you sound like a retard.

>>15970561
>>15970894
Observe and cry some more.

>>15970901
>>15970892
By the time he released his manifesto, it was already far too late to revert back to anarchoprimitivism.
The only way forward is to keep innovating new technologies to deal with the problems that already exist.

>>15970858
>You're saying it's evil that new entrants to the world are forced to collaborate with the olds already firmly in control of it.
Depending on the difference, obviously. Besides it goes against muh meritocracy bullshit when people start in vastly different conditions.

>We feed and house every new arrival to our already somewhat overpopulated earth to what end?
And that is bound to reduce over-population, since people breed less when their economical conditions allow it. Seen in Yurop and US of A too.

Providing a stable base to stand on benefits the better off people too, with less crime and more capable individuals to recruit. Hell, the idea isn't even against Capitalism and just basic income on steroids.

>Resources are limited either way.
They are more than enough to provide somewhat humane housing and nutrition to everyone alive.

> Isn't it more fair to select for those that try to collaborate and add value to the lives of everyone else alive?
In theory it'd be. In practice you're just praying on desperate people who have no option but to collaborate and create value only for a tiny minority.
>What I'm saying is get some skills
Most skilled people don't even benefit from their skills that much. Compare the networth of Bezos with the thousands of skilled workers who actually run his company.

>>15970901
no, you're just assigning too much value to an anprim coomer's future diary.

>>15970929
>Besides it goes against muh meritocracy bullshit when people start in vastly different conditions.
Not really. Some people might have it harder starting out, but there's tons of upper class kids who end up becoming useless commies with meme degrees and zero prospects.
>And that is bound to reduce over-population, since people breed less when their economical conditions allow it.
No, they breed less due to economic factors that lead to them limiting the amount of children they have so they can better support the ones they do have.
>They are more than enough to provide somewhat humane housing and nutrition to everyone alive.
Everyone alive aren't my problem, and this always becomes a singular burden on white countries to support non-whites.
>In practice you're just praying on desperate people who have no option but to collaborate and create value only for a tiny minority.
Having a job isn't "praying" on people.
>Most skilled people don't even benefit from their skills that much.
Yes, they do, because they have skills that aren't easy to replace.

>>15969756
That real? Kek. You can't make this shit up.

>>15967597
Exactly, it's always the same. The upper and lower band together to destroy the middle.

>>15970951
>end up becoming useless commies with meme degrees and zero prospects
And thanks to their skill of being born from the right hole, they will still be perfectly fine and live comfortable lives. If things get hard, they could just rent their parents properties.
>so they can better support the ones they do have
Which requires conditions when they can support them in the first place instead of playing lottery.
>Everyone alive aren't my problem
Childish outlook in a global world. Even in some fascist paradise, desperate poor people are bound to create a problem for you in the long run. But hey, at least you can shoot at them from a wall you financed when you're drafted.
>this always becomes a singular burden on white countries to support non-whites.
Thank our history and present for robbing them blind and now having the means to help. Though sure, nothing speaks against letting Japs do their part.
>Having a job isn't "praying" on people.
If it's voluntary and not a "job or die" choice for them. A base income from one side and serious inheritance taxes from another would easy solve the entire balance problem, give some meaning to the meritocracy talk and create more competition. Why would you be against it if you're skilled?
>Yes, they do, because they have skills that aren't easy to replace.
Yet all of them will never make close to what their boss makes. Is Bezos 1000 times more skilled than 1000s of his skilled workers?

>>15970991
That's what they idiots get for ever thinking they were in charge.

>>15965279
0/10 bait

>>15971009
>And thanks to their skill of being born from the right hole, they will still be perfectly fine and live comfortable lives. If things get hard, they could just rent their parents properties.
I don't think you appreciate just how easy it is to lose generations of building wealth just because your child ended up a dumbass communist.
>Which requires conditions when they can support them in the first place instead of playing lottery.
Doesn't even remotely address the point where if you gave niggers infinite wealth, they would somehow have less children.
>Childish outlook in a global world.
No, it's the realistic one.
>But hey, at least you can shoot at them from a wall you financed when you're drafted.
Sure, that works.
>Thank our history and present for robbing them blind and now having the means to help.
This is a meme. White people didn't ransack Wakanda's stores of Vibranium to become the best civilizations on the planet.
>If it's voluntary
It is.
>A base income from one side and serious inheritance taxes from another would easy solve the entire balance problem
There isn't a balance problem.
>Why would you be against it if you're skilled?
Because as usual, you're talking about taking my more of my money and handing it out to useless niggerfaggots.
>Yet all of them will never make close to what their boss makes.
So what? That wasn't your argument.

>>15970929
>since people breed less when their economical conditions allow it
Are you serious? People breed less because kids cost far more to raise and educate in a way that they will be successful and not a net detriment to you. Not to mention the stressors of working full time, and that many families cant afford to go single-income. Final nail in the coffin is consumerism becoming so advanced you can stay on the hedonistic treadmill forever without getting bored, so why take the sacrifices necessary to have kids?

If you are guaranteed money without working, and your kids are guaranteed income without having to get high paying jobs, there is literally zero sacrifice in raising kids. You will see birth rates skyrocket.

>less crime
or you know, police those communities so investment/businesses/opportunities come back instead of leaving them out of the modern world altogether
>more capable individuals
because people guaranteed all their material wants will spend more time developing skills than people who have to earn those wants by selling their skills? I'll believe it when I see it. artists and gentlemen scientists do not a modern economy make, though id love to see it happen and would be desirable in its own right.

>Most skilled people don't even benefit from their skills that much. Compare the networth of Bezos with the thousands of skilled workers who actually run his company.
The early workers at amazon made millions from stock options. Maybe not as much as they shouldve, but they were free to negotiate at the time. It's an overabundance of labour (including skilled) that keeps wages down for the rest, which is more proof that we have too many people today, not too little.
More evidence:
>desperate people who have no option but to collaborate and create value only for a tiny minority.
Why are they so desperate and wages so low? Because there exist so many people equally skilled (or unskilled) willing to do the job for less

How would we solve that problem by giving the whole world enough freebies to survive and multiply? You are just magnifying the scale of the conflict for the remaining resources when the largesse runs out.

The only way i see it working sustainably is if the UBI is doled out at least the tiniest bit meritocratically, or if you have fucked up authoritarian limits on birth

>>15971058
>The only way i see it working sustainably is if the UBI is doled out at least the tiniest bit meritocratically, or if you have fucked up authoritarian limits on birth
Some combination of these would probably work. A UBI could keep capitalism going forever even as the need for workers decreases, but any finite space like a country or planet can't support infinite people.

>>15970824
>>15970748
Seems like your point is that its possible to overthrow the CIA, citing as your examples:

CIA supported overthrow of some 3rd world arab countries, peaceful protests asking politely for concessions that are promptly disavowed as soon as they have any revolutionary potential/desire.

Your point about
>too bourgois-pilled
is right. a life or death revolution will thin out the ranks of your larping sympathisers and incense your bootlickers (the most well funded and equipped in the world) like nothing else

>>15971048
> just because your child ended up a dumbass communist
Most commies from upper classes aren't consequent enough to sell their shit. Unless they develop some gambling addiction or get scammed for good, losing boomer wealth will take quite the skills.
>if you gave niggers infinite wealth, they would somehow have less children
It only needs to be enough to actually allow them to raise the children, without having to worry about the lil niggas getting killed or dying from some disease. Children are basically capital AND pensions for poor people. (And lack of education obviously doesn't help either)
>Sure, that works.
Great thinking. Instead of spending a bit to help people, you'd rather spend much more on security and waste your time (and skills) protecting the wealth you hoard. Sounds like a hard sell for anyone who isn't a sociopath though.
>White people didn't ransack Wakanda's stores of Vibranium to become the best civilizations on the planet.
Yeah, they also murdered tons of Wakandans in the process and installed their puppet masters there to keep leeching resources in a more socially acceptable way. Good that our Chink and Russian friends learned it too.
>It is.
Hope you don't complain about robbery then. You can either voluntary hand out your money or get shot.
>There isn't a balance problem.
Kek. Even most fucking billionaires don't try to argue that the distribution of wealth is fair.
>you're talking about taking my more of my money and handing it out to useless niggerfaggots.
Spending to create value is pretty capitalist.
>So what? That wasn't your argument.
It means they don't benefit from their skills. Bezos does. His workers just get the leftovers to keep them docile.

>>15971058
>kids
You're viewing this from the point of view of someone in the first world who can afford to make a decision in the first place. Too many kids is more of an issue in third world countries where popping out as many kids as you can, is the only social security option. Again, just look at the developments in the West while we were mostly poorfags.
> there is literally zero sacrifice in raising kids
Outside of actually having kids. How many people with access to education actually want more than 2 if they aren't religious?
>or you know, police those communities
Doesn't deal with crime. As shown in basically any police state and specifically Burgers who police negros excessively already. People who commit crime, usually don't do it for the lulzs. It's much more efficient starting there. Much cheaper than tons of policemen, courts and prisons too.
>will spend more time developing skills than people who have to earn those wants by selling their skills
Having the time for it is a big plus. Not having the pressure to perform right away as well. Besides, most people want to be part of society too bad to just go into a loop of jerking off and vidya.

>>15971058
p2
>The early workers at amazon made millions from stock options.
Is being an early workers of Amazon really a skill that much above the skill of the later ones?
>It's an overabundance of labour (including skilled) that keeps wages down for the rest
More reasons for basic income. If people have a stronger negotiation basis, they will be able to say NO to shit wages.
>Because there exist so many people equally skilled (or unskilled) willing to do the job for less
On one side. On the others it's also lack of legislation. Something as simple as minimum wage would make it much harder to abuse desperate people.

Besides the imbalance between labour and capitalists is given unless the economy is growing fast which is unsustainable. And specially in Burgerland, the capitalists have a much easier time to collaborate against workers. How are even highly skilled SV workers supposed to deal with non-compete clauses for example?
> or if you have fucked up authoritarian limits on birth
Tbqh it should be done either way, until we lower the population by a few billions. Doing it in a humane way is tricky.
Though generally you're seriously overthinking the births. Better economics and education are lowering the shit even inside of Africa.

>>15971189
>losing boomer wealth will take quite the skills.
It's actually quite easy when you have zero income and nothing but expenses.
>It only needs to be enough to actually allow them to raise the children
All evidence proves contrary. The only thing limiting the number of children is financial concerns. Take away financial concerns, and niggers will have infinite children.
>Instead of spending a bit to help people
We already do, and it's never enough for them.
>you'd rather spend much more on security and waste your time (and skills) protecting the wealth you hoard.
Yes. This is common sense.
>Yeah, they also murdered tons of Wakandans in the process and installed their puppet masters there to keep leeching resources in a more socially acceptable way.
Their resources aren't nearly as valuable as you think. These places suck because their populations are, in the clinical sense, retarded.
>Hope you don't complain about robbery then. You can either voluntary hand out your money or get shot.
A complete nonsequitor, but no, I think civilized society has all agreed that you deserve to be shot for robbing me.
>Even most fucking billionaires don't try to argue that the distribution of wealth is fair.
Because you have a bizarre definition of "fair" when it comes to being owed other people's shit.
>Spending to create value is pretty capitalist.
Niggers don't create value, they actively destroy it. Look at literally anywhere niggers live.
>It means they don't benefit from their skills.
Yes, they do. You're fucking all over the place with this one.
>SKILLED PEOPLE DON'T BENEFIT FROM THEIR SKILLS - yes they do
>BUT THEY DON'T MAKE ENOUGH AS BEZOS - so what?
>THEY'RE NOT BENFITTING FROM THEIR SKILLS BECAUSE THEIR SALARY ISN'T EXACTLY THE SAME AS THEIR BOSS
No, you fucking retard.

>>15971019
>0/10 bait
>got you to respond
>135 replies from 43 posters
k

>>15965291
>Disparity is not a bad thing

Wow, is there a single belief more brainwashed than this? I bet you'd go to war for Israel. Believing "wealth disparity isn't bad" is like being a wealth-cuck. "I might be poor. . . but at least the Jews have all the money and are happy!"

>>15971241
>and nothing but expenses
If the expenses are massive. How many commie kids are flying to Dubai few times a year?
>The only thing limiting the number of children is financial concerns.
Yet childbirth always went down when economics improved, whether in the West or Africa.
>We already do
Sticking them to jails is definitely spending but not much on the helping side.
>This is common sense.
If you prefer to shoot at people over your own wellbeing, sure.
>Their resources aren't nearly as valuable as you think.
Pretty much all of our tech would be unaffordable for most if we paid anywhere near the fair price. Plus the previous looting helped to build up the wealth difference large enough to remain in position of power.
>I think civilized society has all agreed that you deserve to be shot for robbing me.
So much for collaboration. Just do your job and give the robber his cash.
>you have a bizarre definition of "fair" when it comes to being owed other people's shit.
Who is "you"? Literal billionaires aka. the most skilled people in this idiotic system tell you it's not going to keep working and wealth needs to be spread around. Instead of licking their boots, you can listen and learn for a change.
>Niggers don't create value, they actively destroy it.
Isn't hip hop one of the biggest genres out there? I heard it has lots of blacks. And they managed it despite having all cards stacked against them too.
>THEY'RE NOT BENFITTING FROM THEIR SKILLS BECAUSE THEIR SALARY ISN'T EXACTLY THE SAME AS THEIR BOSS
Yeah, it's a few THOUSAND times lower. Unless you suggest he is thousands times more skilled, someone is getting seriously fucked here.

>>15971305
>If the expenses are massive.
Living expenses are pretty high, yes, even with paid off homes and cars.
>Yet childbirth always went down when economics improved, whether in the West or Africa.
Yeah. When people actually had jobs, and suddenly had to manage their finances, not when everything was provided for free.
>Sticking them to jails is definitely spending but not much on the helping side.
Western countries have some of the most generous welfare in the world, but as it turns out certain groups commit shit tons of violent crime anyway.
>If you prefer to shoot at people over your own wellbeing, sure.
But you literally just said it was for my own well being. I fail to see how it's in my own self interest to get robbed by third world retards.
>Pretty much all of our tech would be unaffordable for most if we paid anywhere near the fair price.
"fair" is a spook.
>So much for collaboration.
Nonsensical. I prefer symbiotic relationships that benefit both parties, not your niggershit.
>Just do your job and give the robber his cash.
A mutually agreed upon job contract isn't robbery.
>Who is "you"?
You. I thought that was obvious.
>Literal billionaires aka. the most skilled people in this idiotic system tell you it's not going to keep working and wealth needs to be spread around.
Because you have an utterly insane idea of what it means to "spread the wealth around".
>Isn't hip hop one of the biggest genres out there?
>hip hop
>value
>Yeah, it's a few THOUSAND times lower.
So fucking what? This is nothing but pathetically petty envy.

>>15965589
Good essay anon, thanks for sharing.

>>15965279
When will you faggots realize that Industrial Society is the problem, not capitalism.

>>15971189
We've already covered the economic incentives of kids.
Yes substinence farmers want more farmhands, whereas people in the developed world will probably invest more into their kids than they'll ever see back. (Especially when the market has provided things like nurses, care homes that can be cheaper/safer than raising and relying on your child)
And yet people continue to have kids. Now take away the economic disincentives and you expect the rate to keep going down? Why?

>sacrifice ... Outside of actually having kids.
Just because the self-hating SJW women you associate with don't want kids doesn't let you make this claim on behalf of all women. What is so terrible about having more mini-mes that love you, can play and look out for each other as well as you when you get older? If you're some sort of anti-natalist you're clearly not qualified to have this debate, since you're missing out on some common sense that the rest of the world has access.

>specifically Burgers who police negros excessively already
Not even going to bother with this one if you're willing to reduce a complex issue to that. Why is black on black crime so much higher than other races if burgers are policing them excessively? Wouldn't it be the other way around. Or are you saying more policing causes more crime. I guess you are since your suggestion is we should give them money, take away all police (ie all consequences of doing crime) and surely that will make them stop.
>inb4 racist cops yes they exist but its literally not relevant to this scenario

>Having the time for it is a big plus.
Yes and you should get paid to go to school, if the school is actually challenging, teaching real skills and not just a degree mill like most are these days.

>Not having the pressure to perform right away
It is literally easier in every way to try and start performing right away than being coddled by NEETbux for 20 more years and trying to start performing then, once you're taking your first steps out of a massive pit of depression


>>15971220
>Is being an early workers of Amazon really a skill that much above the skill of the later ones?
Yes, you built the company from ground up. Its current success is owed to the work you put in at the start. You can join it now and be unproductive / leech off its massive surplus or just maintain the status quo. If you're actually going to develop it in new directions (AWS) you better make sure you'll be properly rewarded (promotions/bonus/enough credit to change to a better job if they wont reward you at amazon) or you're a mug

>Tbqh it should be done either way, until we lower the population by a few billions
Lol so much for the care and empathy of the left. Lets just sterilise half the population by random in the interests of being "fair" right guys? Then us lucky lottery winners who've survived on the other side can drink the government teat and be comfortable unproductive forever. God bless

>>15971385
>yes, even with paid off homes and cars
If you don't actively try to or make huge purchasing decisions, it's pretty much impossible to lose boomer bucks, specially when you have homes paying for homes.
>When people actually had jobs, and suddenly had to manage their finances
So you're saying people in Yurope 100-200 years ago had no jobs?
>Western countries have some of the most generous welfare in the world
In the countries where it is actually somewhat generous, the crime is pretty much a non issue. Hell, even in Burgerland it's going down despite a larger percentage of scary brown people.
>But you literally just said it was for my own well being.
Playing boarder guardian really isn't when it'd be cheaper and safer just to help them. Look at a real country with a somewhat similar attitude, glorious Israel. The choosen people have crazy drafts, crazy security expenses (bolstered by huge donations) and still live in fear because they prefer to oppress their neighbours instead of working with them. Some of them get killed and injured just to keep it up.
>I prefer symbiotic relationships that benefit both parties,
Nothing symbiotic about making a desperate worker slave away for crumbs. At least if a nigga shot you and took your shit, you wouldn't have to sperg about niggas anymore and he could afford a nice hooker, spreading the wealth in the community.
>A mutually agreed upon job contract isn't robbery.
"Work or die" is as mutual as "give me your wallet or die".
>Because you have an utterly insane idea of what it means to "spread the wealth around".
No idea of "spreading the wealth around" is as insane as not doing it when we reached such idiotic imbalance.
>hip hop
>value
Capitalism decided it's worth a few billions. Your opinion, not so much.
>So fucking what?
>"Hey, I'm paying you a few thousands time less than you're worth, but trust me, you're getting a good deal."
Like, come on. Even most hardcore Capitalists would laugh at you.

It's getting pretty boring though, I'm out. When you take a break from shitposting, consider reading Wealth of Nations.

>>15965279
you're a nerd faggot who can't see that the left is doomed to complacency forever, and your "real" leftism is entirely domain of other faggot nerds like yourself.

>>15969794
so no one is going to engage with this post ? I was waiting for a serious rebuttal or something

>>15965279
> It really resonated with me when Fisher wrote about how these issues culminate into being packaged and sold in capitalist fashion with the impression that you're making progress.
Read The System's Neatest Trick by Uncle Ted.

>>15967597
This

>>15965291
>people will give a fuck about climate or any other issue if they are all poor and have to watch richfags dab on them on daily basis
If anything climate is the real meme here, that will effect you only if you are third worlder

>>15971482
>Now take away the economic disincentives
These aren't that strong for wealthy couples already and yet it's the poorfags who tend to have the most kids. When you have chances beyond being a baby machine, there isn't much of a point spawning kids non stop unless you're deeply religious.
>What is so terrible about having more mini-mes that love you, can play and look out for each other as well as you when you get older?
Pretty naive view of kids. To get to this points takes lots of work and dedication.
>Or are you saying more policing causes more crime.
Obviously it's a factor. Pretty much all crime is under reported, where ever you police more, there you'll find more crime.
Though this is all just additional shit due basic shit like hopeless economical conditions, shit schools and ... let's call it not the idea culture. Add (often) racist policing to it and a history of abuse and you get a problem that can't be effectively discussed as a side topic.
>but its literally not relevant to this scenario
It's relevant to create a productive attitude. When you can be a good nigga, do everything right and still get fucked over by the person supposed to help you, it gets a bit less likely you'll want to become a productive member of that society. If it keeps happening to you and people you know, well we see the results.

It's not like police totally unfit for their job is even just a negro problem.
>Yes and you should get paid to go to school, if the school is actually challenging, teaching real skills and not just a degree mill like most are these days.
Sounds like a decent idea. Although I'm not even sure the extra encouragement is needed. Maybe paying for learning something that is becoming rare.
>It is literally easier in every way to try and start performing right away
If it all works out. Somewhat likely for someone young but take some boomer who relearns more modern skills. A trucker can't just switch to robot mechanic in a month or two.
Besides the 20 years don't seem to realistic. Most people wouldn't want to be out of society for so long and would pick jobs for socialisation alone.

I live in a country with a pretty strong NEETbucks, sick pay and whatever else; and the vast majority still wants to work. Hell, back when Corona bucks paid 80% wages for 20%, motherfuckers were all lost at home, not knowing what to do with their time.
> Its current success is owed to the work you put in at the start.
Come on, that's a bit too simplistic. One can reasonably estimate the value created at the very start but once the company expands, investors pool their cash in, the contribution of the owner vs top workers vs investors gets fucking muddled.
>Lets just sterilise half the population by random in the interests of being "fair"
Woah, slow down there, man. I was thinking along of benefits for not having kids.

But yeah, gotta go. This was a lot more interesting than the stuff with other anon. Take care!

>>15971491
>If you don't actively try to or make huge purchasing decisions, it's pretty much impossible to lose boomer bucks, specially when you have homes paying for homes.
It's actually very easy, when you have zero income, and nothing but expenses, as has already been explained to you.
>So you're saying people in Yurope 100-200 years ago had no jobs?
No, that's what you're saying.
>In the countries where it is actually somewhat generous, the crime is pretty much a non issue.
No, you're thinking of white countries.
>Playing boarder guardian really isn't when it'd be cheaper and safer just to help them.
Flat out no, you retarded cuck.
>Nothing symbiotic about making a desperate worker slave away for crumbs.
Because they're not slaves, and don't work for crumbs. All this shows is that you think working is evil, which shows why you're such a pathetic failure at life.
>"Work or die" is as mutual as "give me your wallet or die".
Nobody has an obligation to provide for your useless ass. THAT would be slavery.
>Capitalism decided it's worth a few billions. Your opinion, not so much.
Sure, of nigger welfarebux, but that's their business.
>than you're worth
"Worth" is a spook. People agreed what they agree to get paid. This is incredibly basic shit.

>>15965279
You cannot solve anything inside of political economy.

>>15965279
The left doesn't understand capitalism, it's just posturing. the only ones who do understand capitalism are the crony rich fuckers who utilize it. It's a system for idiot savants.

Leftism requires a cultural bond anyway, whereas the youth is the most commodified generation yet. The lefts messianic belief in a revolution will be their undoing.

>>15965291
It's a bad thing if you're one of the few not benefitting from it.

>>15967286

Agreed, I’m moving to Europe as soon as possible. I don’t even know why the white supremacists stick around. I’m not a white supremacist, but Germany is still overwhelmingly white despite the memes about turks and Arabs everywhere. There were more in Berlin of course, but everywhere else it was just middle aged and old Germans looking askance at you for slight social missteps. Sounds perfect for a /pol/tard, judgemental and stuffy culture of old white people. I’ll live in the decadent shit hole Berlin because I like the youth culture right now.

>>15965567
BLM are Soros and DNC funded anti-wite marxists

The left isn't a real group

That's why you read Bookchin.
Also all of the radical ecoleftists were arrested in the 2000s under Bush. There's a reason you never hear about Earth First anymore: they were basically broken up by the feds.

congratulations you've finally realized race is a spook

>>15973564
Race is the least spooked.

>the left has failed to adequately address the looming climate threat, stagnating wages and subsequent loss of culture, and mental health
who tf are you even talking about? Many leftists precisely address those problems (except for mental health maybe), they just don't get exposed a lot because in most countries the established left are just neolibs/centrists. That's the sacrifice you have to make to get power (watch ep. 4 of "the century of the self").
You are not the first to think that idpol and pc is stupid and distracting from the real problems. go to any leftist online community and most of them will share the same opinion.
the problem is that leftist politicians can't gain any power unless they give in to the idpol neolib capitalist misery that is plaguing most western countries.
>>15969794
adam curtis is so fucking based. I've only watched the century of the self but I've loved every second of it and his other stuff is supposedly just as good. Can't wait to watch more

>>15971452
Based and Tedpilled

>>15965291
this. they've done quantitative analysis and found economic inequality to play basically no role in decreasing human well-being. leftists don't believe in objective reality though and go purely by feels.
>>15965279
leftists stand in the way of productive climate policy though.
>According to the "climate justice" movement popularized by the journalist Naomi Klein in her 2014 bestseller This Changes Everything: Capitalism vs. the Climate, we should not treat the threat of climate change as a challenge to prevent climate change. No, we should treat it as an oppurtunity to abolish free markets, restructure the global economy, and remake our political system. In one of the more surreal episodes in the history of environmental politics, Klein joined the infamous David and Charles Koch, the billionaire oil industrialists and bank rollers of climate change denial, in helping to defeat a 2016 Washington state ballot initiative that would have implemented the country's first carbon tax, the policy measure which almost every analyst endorses as a prerequisite to dealing with climate change. Why? Because the measure was "right-wing friendly," and it did not "make the polluters pay, and put their immoral profits to work repairing the damage they have knowingly created."
Leftists don't believe in objective reality, leftists don't care about facts or reason, leftists don't want to make the world better. Leftists want to feel good and let their emotions dominate.

I'm glad mark fisher killed himself, hope every other hyper-emotional, reality-denying, continental philosophy-reading leftist follows suit.

>>15973887
have to be 18 before you post here.

>>15966000
checked and underrated. it's almost kind of based when you put it that way.