/lit/ - Literature

shut up tranny

It's hilarious, do they think the working class buys into their pseud bullshit? The philosopher has forgotten the layman.

>>15964059
I know this is a bait post, but just ask on reddit what the fuck is your problem

>>15964118
>every board on 4chan shares the same hivemind
Peak newfag

>>15964126
>quick, i'm gonna call him a newfag otherwise my bait is gonna flunk
>there it is, now I can larp as a genderqueer woman asking for book recommendations about gender and race so I can get 300 seething replies from incels

Raggot

>>15964068
fpbp

>>15964059
it's funny to me that they think they would be arrested for showing "female breasts" when they are just a mentally unstable man in bikini bottoms.

>gender theory
what's there to theorize about? XX = woman. XY = man.

>>15964205
Uhm, oof sweaty, you're wrong in so, so many levels I don't even know where should I begin lecturing you

>>15964205
Say it with me: gender - is - a - social - construct!!!

no

>>15964205
basado

>>15964362
basad*

>>15964362
you mean bxsxdx right anon? vowels are gendered and harm trans people

>>15964059
They shouldn't be put in female prisons because it's unsafe for actual women.

>>15964389
It isn't

>>15964059
yes, asian female gender realist sexologist and neurologist debra soh has a new book on it

https://twitter.com/DrDebraSoh/status/1285649878308323328

>>15964402
Yes it is. It causes women to be locked in with biological men who are capable of assaulting them.

>>15964402
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/transgender-prisoner-who-sexually-assaulted-inmates-jailed-for-life

>Karen White, 52, admitted sexually assaulting women in female prison and raping two other women outside jail

>The 52-year-old, who is currently transitioning, was sentenced yesterday for two counts of rape, two sexual assaults and one offence of wounding.

>>15964358

>>15964410
K E K

>>15964410
Wtf based trannies btfo actual women with their dicks

>>15964410
>Let's lock mentally ill men inside a prison with women
>What could go wrong?

>>15964433
>Let's also let them into women's restrooms, changing rooms, shower facilities, and domestic abuse shelters heehee

>>15964444
I sure do love progress

>>15964444
nice digits

>>15964444
Checked

Well /lit/?

I think the current transgender movement is a consequence of creating a society that heavily privileges women. Men turn themselves into "women" to take some of the privilege back and knock women down a peg, e.g. blowing them out in women's sports; invading and compromising the safety of women-only spaces. It's extremely misguided and harmful (to the men doing this to themselves (fuck women)), but it's understandable given the climate.

>>15964444
literally couldn't give less of a fuck
carry a gun everywhere if the world's that scary to you

>>15964519
>you're just against the existence of trans people
Yes, yes I am

>>15964542
Are you implying that the world is not a scary place?

>>15964519
Turn the other cheek, let yourself be saged

>>15964525
I feel this way, too. I think a large portion of it, as well, is fetishization/romanticism of the female experience -- or what's seen as such an experience.

Some guy on 4chan -- might've been on /lit/ -- was talking about his ongoing study of transgenders, and he found while interviewing them that a lot of them watched a considerable amount of porn. I'm unsure if he was legitimate, but I wonder how much, if at all, such a thing plays a role.

>>15964542
>gun down a mentally ill tranny that was trying to molest kid
>get a death sentence by the scions of zion for hate crime

>>15964525
its the conseuqence of humanities and social sciences retards privileging the subjective worldview of a tiny metnally ill minority over the objective worldview of biology because it plays to their already held retarded pomo biases and elevates their status to that of a real science

>>15964557
/r/itsafetish catalogued the endless isntances of mtf trannies being creepy degenerates but it got banned

>>15964550
>>15964562
i'm implying that if you live your life scared of trannies molesting someone in a bathroom, you're more mentally ill than they are

>>15964557
Right, part of it is also the sexual fetish of imagining oneself as a woman (autogynephilia). This would probably be benign normally but it gets aggravated by women also having a privileged position in society, making their status doubly enviable; there's also the status gain that comes from identifying as an oppressed person.

>>15964557
Was this the guy

>>15964519
>Why yes, I am indeed against the existence of trans """"people""""

>>15964590
I'm not scared of it. I'm a man and I'm capable of protecting myself. Women can't physically fight off a man, and trannies are full biological men with male muscle and bone structure. You're allowing them into places in which women are isolated and vulnerable. It's common sense.

>>15964542
>>15964590
Funny how all the "rape culture" stuff gets thrown right out the window as soon as trannies are brought into the equation. You're nothing more than a useful idiot.

>>15964519
>No one is too young to transition

Why are trannies all pedophiles as well?

Being trans doesn't automatically make you a rapist or fetishist/perv all this is dogmatism to deny their legitimacy. The hate and resentment here is disgusting.

>>15964603
>>15964620
no one is getting raped by trannies in the bathroom at the mall or a gas station - it doesn't happen
post 5 sources where it did or fuck off to your cowardly mentally ill existence

>>15964644
If you have no problem with trannies being in women-only areas then you should have no problem with a normal man being there, because they're biologically the same thing. The fact that you won't accept a normal man means that you know there's a difference, and you know it would put women in danger, but you have to deny it regarding trannies for ideological reasons. Try actually thinking about the propaganda you get fed for a change.

>>15964666
False equivalency. Gender is not sex transwomen are women.

>>15964681
>gender is not sex
why?

>>15964660
If it "doesn't happen" then one instance should suffice. Here you go: >>15964410
>>15964681
They are biologically men. There is no possible way to change that. When you say "transwomen are women" what you mean is "this man says that he is a woman" as it is a self-determined identifier. Stop burying your head in the sand.

>>15964681
>Gender is not sex transwomen are women.

lol its like a chant

>>15964205
>there is no such thing as masculinity and femininity beyond the biological level
This is so stupid. Only an idiot in denial could believe this. When's the last time you went into a clothes shop? Did you not see there was a "men's" section and a "women's" section, despite these having nothing at all to do with male and female biology? When's the last time you were in any social situation? Did you not see the men and women segregating themselves, did you not see them acting differently amongst themselves and towards each other, despite, again, this having nothing at all to do with the makeup of their chromosomes? Have you never observed that women prefer certain types of activities and men others? Have you never seen the statistics for differences in male and female behaviour? That is what gender is. The differing behaviours of males and females. A transgender is a person who dresses womanly, acts womanly, gets surgery to make themselves appear more womanly, and, in short, is internally and externally feminine. The only non-womanly property they possess is their chromosomes, which you can't see nor sense in any way. Why would you deny that such a person is a woman?

>>15964410
>only transgender people rape in jail
>this can only be due to her being trans, nothing to do with her being an immoral rapist and criminal

>>15964725
>I support putting male rapists into women's prisons where they can find more victims.
Good job feminist.

>>15964557
Too many men are meeting their feminine part (and in every man there are parts he considers feminine). Instead of letting those parts integrate peacefully, they're letting them take over. Ofcourse, that doesn't bring peace, just neurosis.

>>15964688
>>15964701
in prison? lol
this idiot doesn't even understand the difference between sex and gender, leave it

>>15964711
>Why would you deny that such a person is a woman?
Because he wasn't born a woman

>>15964644
Are you new here or something?

>>15964711
You are saying that gendered behavior is a social construct, which means that transgenderism is a social construct, which means they are not women in any meaningful sense.

>>15964738
stop avoiding the question fucktard, why is gender not sex?

>>15964738
It's a female-only space. Transgenders want to be placed in female prisons because they consider themselves women. Do you support this or not? Adherence to this practice has lead to multiple women being raped.

>>15964757 the answer is
>>15964734
Retard

>>15964594

>Lesbian Porn is ending Western Civilization and destroying white men
>is racist but doesn’t tell people, assumes everyone is as racist as him
>Rape is men rebelling against the system, man
>clearly is insecure about his penis size
>”women have been sexually pleased historically except by abusive husbands”, clearly has never seen a real female orgasm

Nazis on 4chan are so pathetic, it’s always nice to get a laugh out of the retarded shit some people will Unironically believe

>>15964734
What do you think about biological women rapists in women's prisons? Presumably you support that, despite the same danger being present. The fact is you don't care about these women being raped you just want to use it to bolster your image of transwomen being perverts.

>>15964770
>pleasure for the woman
Why would I care about the pleasure of a femoid? I just want to stick my dick in the only value a woman has, her sweaty hole, you being a tranny means you have no value, not even the value of a hole

>>15964776
It's dissimilar for the reason listed here >>15964603

>>15964776
real women aren't programmed biologically to want to fuck other real women

>>15964660
>it doesn't happen
cope

>>15964787
So the reason is 'man STRONG woman WEAK we must protect m'lady!'
You're fucking retarded for so many reasons.
1) Try watching women's MMA. All of those girls would literally murder you or give you brain damage in a fight.
2) What if there were a large, 6'4", heavyweight, jacked, biological female rapist? Would you support putting her in women's prison? Then what is your reason for opposing transwomen, who are likely weaker than such women?
4) What about transmen? Presumably you think transmen should be in women's prisons because you deny their manhood. But transmen (pic related) would also, because of their testosterone injections, be stronger than woman, and therefore able to rape them easier. What do you do about this?

sexing the body by anne fausto sterling
it has some gay boomer feminist shit but mostly its interesting

>>15964850
forgot to add pic

>>15964850
Not him, but the reason men shouldn't be allowed in women's bathrooms is because they're men. Have a good day.

>>15964850
>1)
If you put an expert mma male fighter against an expert mma female fighter, I can assure you the male one is gonna crush her fucking head
>2)
After a few months without steroids and testosterone they would have a common woman body, even if you say they keep their "training" in prison their bodies wouldn't be as jacked as a natural male
>4)
Same reason nigger, just put them in an isolated cell and wait until the drugs wear off and their body collapses itself
No sympathy for these freaks

>>15964850
>1)
If you put an expert mma male fighter against an expert mma female fighter, I can assure you the male one is gonna crush her fucking head
>2)
After a few months without steroids and testosterone they would have a common woman body, even if you say they keep their "training" in prison their bodies wouldn't be as jacked as a natural male
>4)
Same reason nigger, just put them in an isolated cell and wait until the drugs wear off and their body collapses itself
No sympathy for these freaks

>>15964059
>discussion about actual books
0 replies
>twitter screencap about trannies
/lit/ creams its pants

>>15964850
>So the reason is 'man STRONG woman WEAK we must protect m'lady!'
Women are physically inferior to men. This is not debatable.
>You're fucking retarded for so many reasons.
I seem to be able to function in accord with biological reality, so I doubt it.
>1) Try watching women's MMA. All of those girls would literally murder you or give you brain damage in a fight.
They would be incapable of overpowering me.
>2) What if there were a large, 6'4", heavyweight, jacked, biological female rapist? Would you support putting her in women's prison? Then what is your reason for opposing transwomen, who are likely weaker than such women?
You appeal to a freak of nature, unsurprisingly. You can only appeal to abnormalities because general reality makes your position nonsensical.
>4) What about transmen? Presumably you think transmen should be in women's prisons because you deny their manhood. But transmen (pic related) would also, because of their testosterone injections, be stronger than woman, and therefore able to rape them easier. What do you do about this?
I don't think any of this should be occurring to begin with. None of the treatments they receive should be legal and their should be no legal means to change one's "gender" or sex.

>>15964883
So you think (>>15964858) should be in a woman's prison? And you still try virtue signalling about endangering women by making them mix with physically superior men?

>>15964899
No, I think we should isolate him until the drugs wear off and her body turns back more or less normal
Or even better, they shouldn't be on prison, they should be on a mental institution

>>15964896
>You appeal to a freak of nature, unsurprisingly. You can only appeal to abnormalities because general reality makes your position nonsensical.
Transgender people are abnormalities, you fucking idiot. The average woman going to prison isn't a transgender. So why the fuck would appealing to another abnormality be fallacious? Try answering the question. Should a large, strong woman who can overpower others and rape them be allowed in a women's prison? If yes, your argument about transwomen collapses.

>>15964925
>Try answering the question. Should a large, strong woman who can overpower others and rape them be allowed in a women's prison?
My answer is no. They should be executed.

>>15964933
Checked and based

>>15964925
yes because, get this, she would be an actual woman. most women aren't lesbians so wouldn't be as likely to rape a woman compared to a man pretending to be a woman who is programmed to want to fuck women

>>15964933
based

>>15964925
>Transgender people are abnormalities
You're breaking your ideological programming and you don't even know it. If you don't consider them to be normal then you are engaging in cisnormativity, don't you know?

>>15964939
>most women aren't lesbians so wouldn't be as likely to rape a woman compared to a man pretending to be a woman who is programmed to want to fuck women
So a butch dyke shouldn't be allowed in a woman's prison?
>yes because, get this, she would be an actual woman.
Oh ok, so can you stop virtue signalling and pretending you care about women in prison being endangered?

>>15964967
>Oh ok, so can you stop virtue signalling and pretending you care about women in prison being endangered?
At least you're honest that you don't give a fuck about women and view them as pawns to be trampled in your ideological crusade.

>>15964933
Checked

>>15964950
abnormal = not the norm
abnormal = immoral
Guess which one I meant, retard.
>>15964975
If your reasoning is correct, then we should separate all physically strong lesbian women from other women in prison. For the same reason you don't support that, I don't support excluding transwomen from women's prison.

>>15965015
>abnormal = not the norm
>abnormal = immoral
>Guess which one I meant, retard.
It doesn't matter which one you meant. If you consider cis people to be the normative human mode in any sense then you are engaging in transphobia.

>>15965015
>If your reasoning is correct, then we should separate all physically strong lesbian women from other women in prison.
They're not the same. A "strong" women is still a woman and thus a physical inferior.

The concepts of "man" and "woman" only exist in a biological sense insofar as there are practical differences between the two.

Since modern technology has made some degree of transition possible, and since reproduction isn't considered very important nowadays to the average person, the existence of the categories of "man" and "woman" is less solid than it used to be.

Prove me wrong.

>>15965034
>If you consider cis people to be the normative human mode in any sense then you are engaging in transphobia.
Never said normative. It is normal, ie. most people are cis, but not normative, ie. people should be cis.

>>15964366
I don’t think any of you guys have actually talked to trannies. What makes you think they would be at all averse to the idea of two genders? Why do you think TERFs hate them? Trannies subscribe to the gender roles more than anyone. It’s all these other half-breed SWJ political factions that spawn these hybrid genderless weirdos. Trannies just want to be male or female.

>t. Someone who actually read a lot of the literature on the topic and talked to many of them

>>15965065
There were concepts of 3+ genders before modern technology so that is wrong

>>15964059
>2020
>investing brain power in empowering perverts

These are truly sad times.

Bodies that Matter: On the Discursive Limits of Sex by Judith Butler
Sexing the Body Gender Politics and the Construstion of Sexuality by Anne Faust-Sterling
Gender Trouble Feminism and the Subversion of Identity by Judith Butler

OP I read these to try to see the transgender point of view but I still do not agree.

Other suggestions welcome.

>>15965085
where?

>>15965074
I don't care what they think. I care that they want me to deny reality. I care that they want to force me to lie and call them women when they are not. I care that they want to get people fired from the jobs or have people face criminals charges for "misgendering." The moment they decided to force me to conform to their mental illness is the moment they became my enemy, and there's no amount of theory or rationalization you can vomit out to make me change my mind.

>>15965101
>Judith Butler
How can you read that which cannot be read?

>>15965085
This is a meme, but it doesn't even have anything to do with what I said.

>>15965117
They aren’t forcing you to do shit dude. Like I said, it’s these retarded progressive political factions who co-opt these minority movements to push their own bullshit. Trannies are by and large normal people who just want to be left alone and to stay out of the limelight

>>15965046
Should all those women to the right of the blue line, who are all stronger than the average male, be allowed in women's prison if they are lesbians?

>>15965140
Get fucked, faggot. Go try your little blame-shifting game somewhere else.

>>15964711
But there are cases of men who act in more feminine ways and maybe even crossdress, but still consider themselves male. Even if what you're saying was an acceptable justification for some people being women despite their male chromosomes, if they go so far as to have surgery, it wouldn't justify anyone who calls themself a woman but it's only as womanly as some other people who act in a similarly feminine way but still call themselves a man.

>>15965175
They should be put in a medically induced coma until their muscles atrophy and then released into the general prison population.

>>15965200
Whatever helps you sleep at night bro.

>>15965230
The current state of things doesn't help me sleep at all, I'm afraid.

>>15964140
>we-we do not exist! you4re just imagining t-things!! stop questioning us, shet lorde!!11!

>>15965140
>They're just normal people and want to be left alone
This same propaganda line was used regarding gay rights as well and it was just as much bullshit then as it is now.

>>15964711
>behavior is not determined or even influenced by genes
Come on, I’m not even a science worshiper but this is ridiculous

>>15965175
yes, we should put all women (so biological) in womens prisons and all men in mens

I think the problem is that trans accommodation is so totalizing that it requires its supporters to control every aspect of society including its metaphysical perspective.

>>15964711
>feminine behaviour means youre a woman!

its like im back on the playground, why do wokies keep doing this

>>15964896
BASADÍSIMO

>>15964059
I don’t understand how this has become a point of contention (well, I *do* but still; see ISAIF). Such a small fraction of mentally unstable people who cannot handle the simple act/state of living should have no say in a democratic society (which is awful enough as is) unless they compose >50% of the population. But they don’t. It would be one thing if every instance of “transgenderism” logically implied a >150 IQ, I could understand coddling them and trying to make sure they don’t off themselves. But that is not the case so who fucking cares? Yes, it’s sad that such people exist and I fee bad that they cannot handle life, but just make them adapt or kill themselves instead of making regular people conform to their insanity

>>15965140
>Trannies are by and large normal people who just want to be left alone and to stay out of the limelight
HAHAHAHA holy shit nigger.
Transexuality is literally a PERFORMATIVE IDENTITY.

>>15964403
Her face looks CG.

>>15965540
>performative identity
Elaborate pls
Derrida is that u

>>15965687
ok but she is based and redpilled

The concept of gender in the modern day is incredibly complicated, but not for the reasons a lot of twitter/tumblr people think they are.

They are right in that the modern worldview of gender is hindered by Christian expansion and domination, as well as the western world trying to impose rationality as a belief system through the means of science onto everyone (which is not necessarily a bad thing, however, it's a different means of human experience to weigh objectivity over the inherent desire to fantasize and mythologize). Religion is often a culprit in how we impose gender roles and view things such as gender as a whole. A lot of them talk about how other religions and cultures do recognize other genders than the standard two, which is true.

All of that being said, the western world (especially America) has evolved from this place of Christian domination since before the colonization of the new world. Even if the pilgrims had founded America on the basis of having religious freedom, they were still, largely, influenced by Christian structured communities and ideals of morality and purity. Largely, a lot of homophobia and transphobia come from Abrahamic religions and colonization/imperialism from countries that are structured from those religions.

In this modern day, many people can recognize a gender binary as something not inherent to them and choose a different option (to be transgender, gender non conforming/androgynous, or "non-binary"), and through learning of histories and different religious views, can come to these conclusions. However, what a lot of twitter/tumblr types don't seem to grasp is how others come to this progression. As others in the thread have said, some people become transgender due to a fetishization of the female or male experience through porn or fanfiction. Women often explore their sexuality through gay male fantasies in fanfiction due to a desire to escape from objectification by removing themselves from the picture all together. This can escalate to women fetishizing gay relationships and transitioning to a man themselves to fulfill this fantasy as an active member.

There's also the topic of people who will exploit transgenderism and the protection of the identity, such as predators, rapists, and people who are sentenced to jail. They simply don't want to discuss how sick individuals are going to use these labels and identities to shield themselves and have easier access to those they'd like to harm. They would rather live in a black and white world where everything is as they believe it to be, where transgender people are validated and every single one of them transition or label themselves as such for the right reasons and no one would ever abuse their ideology. This is what creates toxic and harmful thinking in their communities, and truthfully black and white thinking patterns are harmful in any capacity and not just liberal politics.

>>15965814
A lot of theology (on both sides) is hindered on finding the root cause of every single person's reasons for transition and desire thereof, but doesn't factor in that it's widely dependent on circumstances and individual cases. For some people, it's a matter of dysphoria and their brand being different. For others, it's a matter of how they are socialized. For some, it's a matter of it being a fetish. It's hard to understand because the reasons are so varied. For people who are on the outside looking in and want a clear cut answer to the "degeneracy", they will forever be unsatisfied as there is none. You have to talk with individual people and get to know them, that may humanize all of this wonder (or disdain).

>>15965710
"Femininity," while partially the natural expression of innate biological tendencies, is largely performative. Take the following example:
Estrogen causes females to develop breasts. This is biologically determined. However, the choice of how those breasts are "expressed" is performative. A woman could perhaps flaunt her breasts with tight fabric and a push-up bra (performing femininity) or she could compress them to perform (relative) masculinity.

Whereas the real female has the biological basis for her performance, the transexual does not. Therefore, the transsexual can only perform femininity. We could even argue that this performance is more pure and more passionate than the real female's, as the transsexual's performance is invented from whole cloth. It is completely external, and thus requires an audience (because a social construct requires a society to exist, whether it is being followed or fucked with). Advances in medicine and plastic surgery have provided physical (and, with the case of HRT, biological) enhancements for transsexuals, but these only serve to enhance the performance. Hormonally grown breasts are more convincing than a stuffed bra, but more convincing for whom??? Just as women don't wear makeup "for themselves," trannies don't grow breasts for themselves either. It's performative. It requires external validation, an audience. The drag queen is the most honest transsexual, but the "traps" you see on 4chan are the best performers.

This is the A1 way to attack transsexuality when speaking with feminist women. Femininity is now a commodity, cheaply imitated and mass produced. Transsexuals are walking parodies of societal gender norms and performative femininity. "Womanhood" is now something that can be BOUGHT, for the price of a few surgeries and some suggestive clothing.

>>15965936
ABSOLUTELY FUCKING BASED
recommend some books to inform me and fight against the pozzed hellhole we live in

>>15964896
>They would be incapable of overpowering me.
Hello? Based department?

I've got two books for you
1) The Red Queen by Matt Ridley
While I don't agree with everything he says, it explains the hows and whys of sex and gender.
If reading a hundred pages on the sexual tendencies of hens before getting to humans is too much for you, I'll recommend you /ourguy/
2) The gender part of Human Diversity by Charles Murray
Despite his previous book being retarded, this one is much more well structured and sensible. It explains and sources the differences between the genders (Ridley covers this more summarily because his focus is more on sex the act though he also covers gender).

>>15965936
BASED

>>15965175
The transitioning man raped women in prison with his penis. This isn't a strong woman raping another woman in prison, this is a man raping a woman in a female only habitation.
I think to the past when "transvestites" were a thing and that culture at least seemed to try and be as womanly as possible. The notion of transvestite seemed to imply a full transition, including surgery and all that rigamarole. Even if they didn't look very convincing they sure played the part.
Now anyone can be in a "transitional" phase for however long despite their lack of a feminine appearance or surgery. It's disconcerting, unsightly, and too nebulous a period. The lack of distinction is scary for a lot of women who do not want to be a victim of a disguised predator, a predator who can use the cudgel of popular trans moral authority to enter (formerly) female-only places.
To refer back to this man, he had a history of exposing himself to children. Him and others like him have more of an opportunity to weasel into female places.

The trans community needs to learn their gender is not a simple distinction. They are the emperor in invisible clothes. They have no internal dignity and instead parade themselves around in hopes of validation.

Do the political trannies even cut their balls now? Or do they only wear a skirt and engage in politics?

>>15965872
I should also note that it's strict gender roles and gendered thinking that probably create the influx of people who wish to transition or identify as transgender. If we were to let people be and not create expectations of how certain people should act, there may be more of a spectrum and a freedom of how people identify. The need of women to be hyperfeminine and for men to be hypermasculine puts people into these lines of thinking. If a woman isn't so feminine, she may think she's a man since she isn't in the typical role of a woman, even if she doesn't necessarily identify with manhood. This, I believe, is the reason why so many twitter and tumblr teens are attracted to transgenderism and have made a "trend" out of it. They don't necessarily do a lot of reading and research on everything, see it as a popular ideology online, and think that they must be part of it since they don't feel traditionally masculine or feminine.
>>15965936
Breasts aren't just an act of gender performance but provide a biological function in feeding infants.

Performing gender is largely created by gender roles and socialization. Transgendered people feel the need to perform a caricature of femininity to have their identity validated to the outside world who view breasts and skirts and lipstick as queues of the female form. Many do this for their own protection, others do it to combat dysphoria. There's some who do it out of fetish.

Femininity and the experience of womanhood differ from culture to culture, under the beliefs of the society. How women are socialized, and how men are socialized to view and treat women, largely play into the experience of the woman. The only biological experience of womanhood is menstruating, being pregnant, and giving birth. However, there are many women who can't do any of these things who aren't transgender. That doesn't mean they don't experience womanhood, as they are socialized and viewed and treated as women are. Womanhood has always been dependent on the audience. Feminists who write dissections on their oppression, who live through trauma, do so with the audience. In "Ways of Seeing" womanhood is described through the lends of women who see themselves being looked at, while men just simply see themselves. So your entire argument of transgendered women performing is null, as all women, and as an extent men, perform.

>>15966022
Thanks m8

>>15964751
Why is the number 3 not three apples?

>>15966080
answering a question with a question. nice strategy for a retard

>>15966072
Just a quick note
If you read both
Start with Murray's book
It's more of a holistic review of studies on the topic so it will give you a solid footing in terms of what gender and sex actually are
Ridley will then give you a more historical perspective, why are there genders? Why aren't we hermaphrodites? Why two genders specifically? The whys and hows of monogamy and polygamy etc

I can't wait until Islam takes over the world.

>>15964126
>everyone outside of reddit hates trannies
yes

>>15964594
His points about lesbian porn are incredibly off base. Men like lesbian porn for the allowance of imagination. Most heterosexual porn leaves little to be imagined, but lesbian porn allows for the viewer to imagine themselves there and his own genitals in the mix instead of viewing another man in that place. Imagination can often be more powerful for pleasure than very clear visuals. This is also why impressionism in painting is so powerful, as it allows your mind to create detail and fill in areas itself rather than have it illustrated.

>>15966122
Inshallah

The transgender movement will end in about a decade or so, once all the kids grow up and start suing their doctors. The question is how much damage it will cause in the meantime.

>>15964890
/thread

>>15965955
I don't really have books for you. I'm not the first person to say what I've said, but I arrived to my conclusions on my own.
I would recommend reading actual radical feminist writing (I can't remember specifics for the life of me, they're all quite ridiculous), but think critically about their theories rather than discarding them as "liberal" or "marixst" (which they are). Bra-burners say that gender is a performance (it is), but their conclusions are merely another performance (anti-femininity). Reappropriate their rhetorical weaponry.
If you want literature you could try Hemmingway's Garden of Eden. Though I found it boring, it was very ahead of its time. Written in the late 40s and early 50s, not published until 86.

Really though, if you want to "fight the pozzed hellhole," you should eventually get off 4chan, stop reading books, find some good men, and become the Hitler we need but don't deserve.

>>15965065
XX AND XY

>>15966083
Are you not able to deduce the answer to your question from mine?

>>15964118
I don't see anything wrong with this image at all. Kill yourself with your "political correct " opinions as you call them soilad

>>15964519

>>15965140
Trannies are sick people

>>15964403
how can you be a gender realist when gender isn't real? genuinely curious

>>15966480
What are you talking about you nigger? Are you a tranny too? Go back to soiddit

>>15966058
>Breasts aren't just an act of gender performance but provide a biological function in feeding infants
Doesn't contradict anything I've said.
>Transgendered people feel the need to perform a caricature of femininity to have their identity validated
I don't like this framing, but you are still agreeing that transgenderism, as most commonly expressed, is a performance that requires external validation. Otherwise a transsexual could just "be a woman" in their head without changing any outwardly behavior, and nobody'd care.
>Femininity/the experience of womanhood differ from culture to culture
Yes but not as greatly as you seem to imply.
>The only biological experience of womanhood is menstruating, being pregnant, and giving birth.
An utterly incorrect statement. Having breasts and a vagina is part of the female experience. Having the hormonal profile that females typically do is part of the female experience. "Getting fucked" instead of "doing the fucking" is part of the female experience. Having a generally different bone structure and fat distribution is part of the experience. Being generally smaller and weaker is part of the experience. The entire perception of the world is colored by all of this. All of these are biological in nature, and culminate (along with cultural factors) into a general experience we could call "womanhood," and any one-off exceptions are just that--exceptions.
>Women see themselves being looked at, men just simply see themselves.
This is some of the reductionist nonsense you unfortunately see in a lot of feminist literature. Yes, women more acutely perceive themselves as objects of desire, because they are by nature of what men find attractive. Men, however, do not "just simply see themselves." Most of what men do that is not directly pleasurable is meant for the increase of their sexual attractiveness, because women don't simply value physical looks, but status, resources, and wit. Men form hierarchies among themselves using things like "honor" because "status, resources, and wit" are much harder to comprehend at a single glance than whether a woman is hot. The CEO or professional athlete is fully aware that his status as such makes him attractive to "the female gaze," to invert a popular feminist phrase. Women put on makeup, men amass a fortune. I don't say that with judgment, it's just the way it is. Feminists who argue otherwise are betraying a shallow intellect and an unwillingness to abstract what they themselves are not directly experiencing.
>Your entire argument of transgendered women performing is null, as all women, and as an extent men, perform
This contradicts nothing of what I said. I already agreed that gender (masculinity/femininity) is largely a performance. My argument (transgenderism is a performative identity) is inherently correct if you accept transgenderism as a performance. You would also be correct in saying (as I did) that masculinity and femininity are performative.

>>15964750
based. recognizing that gender norms are socially constructed while claiming you're a girl now because you abide by the wrong set is retarded no matter how you look at it
kind of hilarious that they fall back on "female brain" essentialist cope because on some level they understand how internally inconsistent their beliefs are

>>15966528
There is literally nothing wrong with it you jealous 5'5 faggot

>>15966515
it is real to her, the title is intentionally misleading

https://twitter.com/DrDebraSoh/status/1286005640247283714

>Gender is not a social construct. Sex differences aren't sexist.

>>15964850
>1) Try watching women's MMA. All of those girls would literally murder you or give you brain damage in a fight.
Dumb as fuck. The reason MMA is segregated by weight and missing weight is penalized so harshly is because anyone with a genuine interest in the sport understands that size has a large impact on the outcome of a fight, and allowing people of different sizes to fight each other would be unfair. Women have a more difficult time building muscle and are predisposed to carry more fat than men, which is why they're further segregated into their own divisions. Amanda Nunes could conceivably beat a crappy male flyweight, but even as one of the best fighters female MMA has to offer, it wouldn't be fair to pit her against a male bantamweight. Making her fight a male featherweight would be a crime. Sick of you brainlets using female mixed martial artists as a gotcha when you don't know shit about the sport.

>>15966555
>there is nothing wrong with a bunch of retards baiting another bunch of retards in an eternal shitfest
Fuck you nigger

>>15966594
>nigger

>>15966604
>le ebin soijoke xD

>>15964593
This.

>>15964594
A lot of this is conservative (not to mention, blatant fascist) pearl clutching based only on modern American history/culture and nothing more. The world is truly filtered through a western, Christian lens. For people who claim to love reading, they sure do an awful lot of researching and reading only sources that substantiate their own biases. He even points out that he purposefully left out psychological sources. He'd rather be placated than challenged, nothing new.
>What?? People have sexual interests that AREN'T missionary for procreation only?? What fresh degeneracy is this?
>Comparing interracial porn and relationships to beastiality
>Downplaying the effects of psychology and lived experience to their sexual preferences
>Only focusing on transgender from the side of transwomen and not transmen because it doesn't support his claims
>If you watch porn then you WILL become transgender! If you even like taking a submissive role then you are on the path to becoming a degenerate tranny!
>Has an obvious insecurity about the size of his dick and fears women laughing at him because for the first time in his life he realizes that sex isn't only about his pleasure, thinks this is oppression despite an entire industry catering to his pleasure as well as a porn obsessed culture that inundates females to performing unrealistically for his pleasure
>Talks about the family life rapidly declining, despite the family structure he speaks of stemming as far back as the 1950s nuclear family model, which was created to sell people more shit
>Alpha/beta thinking that no actual Chad or whatever would think about
This is all cope from a guy who's watching society change because of the very thing that gave him his views on it in the first place: American capitalism. He has some good points, such as the harmful influence over-consuming porn has on the mind, but it's overshadowed by his own ideologies while passing it off as objective scientific analysis.

Gender is a social construct and transphobia is rooted in ignorance and fear. Debate me.

>>15966616
Thats not a soijak zoom zoom

>>15966616
>heh that'll show em

>>15966627
>Talks about the family life rapidly declining, despite the family structure he speaks of stemming as far back as the 1950s nuclear family model, which was created to sell people more shit
the modern retirement home is imo one of the clearest examples of how modern life fractures the family. the nuclear family itself is indicative of the decline of the family in the west and people who buy into it are mouthbreathers beyond redemption

>>15964666
>If you have no problem with trannies being in women-only areas then you should have no problem with a normal man being there, because they're biologically the same thing.
I don't in cases of bathrooms. Many fathers go into the female bathrooms and changing rooms with their daughters so they don't have to go in alone. If men are going to rape someone in the bathroom, they're not going to let a label on the door stop them. Some men abuse the identity politics of transgenderism to innocuously get away with predatory behavior, but that usually doesn't stop at a fucking bathroom. Transwomen are more likely to be or have been victims of abuse than perpetuate abuse, so them being allowed in women-only spaces is fine.
>>15964688
You're on /lit/, a board dedicating to reading. Why not read some actual articles about this. It's science that sex is biological and gender is social. Here's something from Stanford: https://web.stanford.edu/~eckert/PDF/Chap1.pdf

>>15964933
cringe

>>15964059
theory is for women. stick to biology books

>>15966721
Cringe

>>15966535
>Doesn't contradict anything I've said.
You've spoke of breasts as aesthetic, so I was just pointing that out. They aren't only aesthetic or sexual signifiers. There's also women who are flat-chested and wear push-up bras/stuff and get surgery to inflate their chest size.
>but you are still agreeing that transgenderism, as most commonly expressed, is a performance that requires external validation.
It varies from person to person, but I would say yes. Gender in general does, as does race, when speaking about a person in a social environment. People can just be a woman inside their head, or whatever culture they belong to inside their house, but however they're treated by the society is how the society views them. In part, that does effect their identity. That's why non-passing/passing and white passing are labels that can be applied to people. So, both you invalidating trans people is correct, but also their perception of themselves is correct.
>Yes but not as greatly as you seem to imply.
Depending on the era of society, it can. Colonialism and imperialism, as well as Abrahamic religion and the spread of, can influence a lot of different cultures to adhere to the viewpoints of those original countries. Take India for instance. Before British influence, India recognized many different gender identities. Take indigenous America, also. Before colonialism, many tribes had something they called "two-spirit" and were widely accepted (this was a term to describe transgendered people as well as people who had qualities of both genders). There was also a different role for women in indigenous America. Societal roles weren't necessarily based on gender, nor was the roles of parenting since the entire tribe would raise children regardless of who birthed who and who inseminated who. Or how in Africa, there are some cultures where women were so integral to the agriculture market of their society that when marrying men, men would pay a "brideswealth" to the bride's family to help cover the loss of income losing the bride would cause. This isn't necessarily "women do the MAN'S job!" type things, but they differ greatly from the gender roles you would normally expect from history.
>Having breasts and a vagina is part of the female experience.
Breastfeeding is, however biological men can develop breasts. Having a vagina was kind of implied with the menstruating, being pregnant, and giving birth thing.
>Having the hormonal profile that females typically do is part of the female experience.
True, I forgot that one.
>"Getting fucked" instead of "doing the fucking" is part of the female experience.
Both true and not. Some women "do the fucking" and some men get fucked (by either women or men). When I reply to these statements, I don't take in generalizations. Generally, you can say all of these things, however each person and each experience is so varied. Homosexual men definitely share in the experience of "getting fucked." 1/2

>>15966535
>>15966940
Dominant/lesbian women share in the experience of "doing the fucking". All of these dependent factors can be state for the majority of what you said, men can have larger fat distributions and daintier bone structures. Men can be smaller and weaker. By large, yes these generalizations hold true, but that doesn't mean the entire world adheres to this, nature doesn't even adhere to this. Being transgender is such a rarity, as well. I never argued that they were some grand majority or even a normality, but that their feelings and existence don't come from nowhere.
>My argument (transgenderism is a performative identity) is inherently correct if you accept transgenderism as a performance.
I don't disagree with you there, I was just expanding on the concepts of gender and masculinity/femininity being performative concepts as well. But if you agree with that, then that's really it to the conversation. We see eye to eye on some things, on other things not so much. Thank you for listening to my point of view on it and discussing it with me. 2/2

>>15966689
You're very right and informed. I love you, anon.

>>15965074
So? Trannies are pushy and demanding fucktards who are disproportionately against freedom wherever they are. The only funny thing they’ve done is join female sports and btfo real girls.

>>15967015
>who are disproportionately against freedom wherever they are
From a libertarian standpoint, the only thing that fringes upon freedom is being harmful to others. Is it really harmful toward you to simply refer to someone with their preferred pronouns or identity? Uncomfortable, I can see. But harmful? You don't have to interact with them at all unless you happen to work with one, in which case you can be cordial while not fully engaged. While spreading bigotry and hate can be harmful to others, and therefor infringes upon their freedoms.

>>15967047
No, I don't want to call them by ther preferred pronouns, now fuck off and leave this shitty thread die already

>>15967140
Okay, cute little sissy girl-chan

>>15967157