/lit/ - Literature

>>15736602
1. Not lit related; taking on a what should I read doesn’t change that
2. Reflect on how you came to know that Jesus is God and the significance of that
3. Ask yourself the question - what are the teachings of Jesus and how do we know this for sure.
4. Sedevaticanists are literally protestants by definition
5. The true denomination will not align with your racist feelings.
6. The beliefs of your family and friends have no bearing on the truth and all Christians are called to follow Christ over their own family

>>15736602
Go with Orthodox.

>>15736602
just read the Bible. It has everything you need. All the relevant commandments are in it.

>>15736643
>1. Not lit related; taking on a what should I read doesn’t change that
Except it is /lit/ related you fucking retard, Christianity is heavily based in the Bible and the Bible is the single most quoted work in history.
>2. Reflect on how you came to know that Jesus is God and the significance of that
>3. Ask yourself the question - what are the teachings of Jesus and how do we know this for sure.
I don't know either of these things, I'm still reading the Bible and researching the different schools of thought regarding it.
>Sedevaticanists are literally protestants by definition
No, Sedevacantists are Catholics. You can still follow pre-second Vatican Catholic law as a Sedevacantist, in which case you would be Catholic because your actions draw from the law of the true Catholic church.
>5. The true denomination will not align with your racist feelings.
Where did I say anything racist?
>6. The beliefs of your family and friends have no bearing on the truth and all Christians are called to follow Christ over their own family
That's why I made the thread.
>>15736657
What are you main differences between the Orthodox and Catholic churches regarding this?
>>15736672
I am.

>>15736602
All denominations are evil. Just get a red letter bible and read the words of Jesus.

>>15736602
Go with Gnosticism, it's the only one that makes any sense.

>>15736602
Christians follow Christ, not a denomination. Most churches are corrupt, all major ones are definitely corrupt. Denominations can only be good for the sake of community.

Read some Ratzinger.

>>15736695
>Christians follow Christ, not a denomination.
The idea is that Christ created the Catholic church to deal with matters not discussed in the Bible through learned theoligans, therefore you are following Christ through following Catholicism.
>Denominations can only be good for the sake of community.
This is the primary reason I'm interested in them.

>>15736695
Also keep in mind that by the end times all churches will have been corrupted, there is no perfect church.

>>15736700
Catholicism is literally the church of the antichrist. These Jesuits only parade as Christians. The church is the devil's favorite place to hang out. Christ did not establish the CC, that is a lie they tell you.

>This is the primary reason I'm interested in them.
Then look within your immediate community/family.

>>15736705
They already are, the only ones that aren't are way too small to matter and are privately run.

>>15736719
I'd rather not base my religion off of a shittily edited, historically muddy quote from a century old pope. Like I said in OP, most of my community is Catholic

>>15736602
fuck of tourist catholic.
back 2 pol

>>15736743
>tourist Catholic
this is my primary board you fucking troglodyte

Why are you Christian? Did you critically reflect over it and come to believe it's true or do you just want to be "based and trad"

>>15736742
I'm not saying Catholics are bad. I'm saying the CC IS the whore of Babylon, and Catholics are misled by the enemy.

>>15736685
>Except it is /lit/ related you fucking retard, Christianity is heavily based in the Bible and the Bible is the single most quoted work in history.
/his/ is the Board for religious discussion, WWII has produced and has a ton of literature - that doesnt make it lit related.

>I don't know either of these things, I'm still reading the Bible
So why are you focusing on choosing a denomination?

>No, Sedevacantists are Catholics.
They reject the authority of the Pope, which defacto makes them outside of the Catholic Church and as they are not Orthodox accordingly they are Protestant.

From Vatican I

> "5. Therefore, if anyone says that it is not by the institution of Christ the Lord himself (that is to say, by divine law) that blessed Peter should have perpetual successors in the primacy over the whole Church; or that the Roman Pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in this primacy: let him be anathema." (Vatican I, Session 4, Chapter 2, Paragraph 5)

>law of the true Catholic church
Lutherans also claimed to be this as well for a very long time.

>Where did I say anything racist?
Your hostility to the Pope "the feet of blacks" and thinking it was done a reparation

>>15736719
>Jesus didn't establish the CC
Matthew 16:18
>And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
John 21:16-17
>16 He said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” 17 He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.

Vicar of Christ also doesn't mean God on Earth. It means earthly representative of Christ.

>>15736775
>muh Mat 16:18
Shut up heretic.

Peter was the Apostle with the most faith. Christ's church is built on faith. It is not a physical place in vaticunt city state inc.

>>15736765
The KKK lynched Catholics too. The chuds on /pol/ aren't your bros.

>>15736790
No. Antichristians and the morally corrupt aren't my bros.

>>15736685
"All Protestants are Crypto-Papists"

not that guy but Catholicism and by extension Protestantism (or is it the other way around?) grew and changed and matured along with the western world.

In general, the medieval world was a (failed) experiment, but a genuine one, at creating a Christian world. Thereafter grew nations, and as the first nation states emerged in western europe, Western Christianity was changed irrecoverably and the project abandoned, leaving it to be a bastard form of a religion, part government, part institution of learning, completely political

Orthodoxy is, for all its faults, much closer to the Christianity of Christ than any Protestant ever could be.

Whatever you choose, ignore this poser : >>15736686

THIS is the worst heresy of the Protestants, the misapprehension of what the Bible is and a fatal ignorance of Communion and the Eucharist, the real center of Christianity, which is not an ideology or a book, but a Kingdom

>>15736758
I've had many debates over the possibility of Christianity, the existence of God, and free will with both (athiest/agnostic) friends that I trust greatly and consider very intelligent, and on here. Basically, I came to believe that there is most likely a God, and due to my heritage and the morality of the Bible, Christianity seems like the best and most likely choice for me to follow. The tipping point in my faith was honestly reading about some of the Saints, like Saint Joan of Arc, and the absurdity, but also 'correctness', of the actions they took in the situations they were in.
>>15736765
Post 1962(?) Catholic law I would generally disagree with, considering like I said, I'm considering sedavancanism heavily. A lot of the quotes you're posting are historically pretty muddled.
>>15736769
>/his/ is the Board for religious discussion, WWII has produced and has a ton of literature - that doesnt make it lit related.
At what point do you draw the line between purely literary discussion and purely historical discussion? Would not the discussion of Biblical history be for /his/, and the theology of the Bible itself be for /lit/?
>So why are you focusing on choosing a denomination?
Because I already know that I'm probably going to be Catholic and I know many of the overarching ideas regarding Catholicism vs. Protestantism vs. Sedavancanism, and want to talk about it now so that I can practice properly. It takes a long time to read the Bible anon, especially when I'm reading quite a few other works alongside it.

>>15736719
Fucking hell.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vicar#Etymology
>Definition 3: A person acting on behalf of, or representing, another person.

He's literally saying he's God's representative on Earth, not God you dipshit.

>>15736765
>>15736785
Yes, the cross was a failure on God's part but our own since we literally crucified God. It's a failure on our part to love God and follow the Greatest Commandment. Also you do realize that Catholics created the canon of the Bible as we know today (minus 7 books if you are Protestant), right? Look up St. Jerome before you sperg out with those /pol/-tier infographics

>>15736765
Not a fan of the Catholic Church, but that pic is literally retarded.

>>15736775

Protestants, who worship alone or among strangers in mega churches, are always like this, always quoting from the Bible with great recall and yet abject spiritual poverty. Unknowingly representing the worst deviation of Catholicism, that of scholasticism. No spirit in these people.

>>15736804
You are pure evil.

>>15736827
I hope for your sake that you have a community of believers you can worship with my friend. For the record, I'm not a Catholic

>>15736827
wait why am I evil lol

>>15736804
I'll look into it then, thanks. Do you have any books on Orthodoxy you could recommend?

>>15736806
>God's representative on Earth
Exactly. Heresy.

>failure
Holy shit and piss and vomit. The opposite is true.
The cross is an achievement. Our sins are not forgiven, they are paid for. With Christ's blood. This is why we belong to Jesus Christ. He paid for us.
We are saved by God's grace, in our faith in Jesus Christ's sacrifice, His death and resurrection. That's the whole gospel.
Without it, it isn't Christianity, its a strictly works based religion like every other.

this concerns you too >>15736818

As an Irish catholic,I'd invite you over our way. you can drink all you want without the pain of being slavic

>>15736805
>At what point do you draw the line between purely literary discussion and purely historical discussion?
Its literally in the rules check out rule one of /his/. This isnt a discussion on the bible as literature its a discussion on religion.

>Because I already know that I'm probably going to be Catholic
Dont you think that is a cause for concern (which points to ulterior motives) when you haven't even read the bible or formed any kind of relationship with Jesus? I mean just look at one of the reasons you gave - "and due to my heritage"

>I'm considering sedavancanism heavily
Also, do you not see a anything curious about that school of thought being primarily an American phenomena? The country that is heart of Protestantism an heretical deviations (even from a Protestant perspective via groups like the JWs Mormons and 7th Day Adventists).

>>15736856
>Our sins are not forgiven, they are paid for. With Christ's blood. This is why we belong to Jesus Christ. He paid for us.
That doesn't make any sense. Who received the payment?

>>15736785
>Matthew 23:9
The full verse in context also tells you to call no man master or teacher but in 1 Tim. 2:7, 2 Tim. 1:11, and 1 Cor. 12:28 those terms are used. Jesus was referring to calling no man father in the sense of the Heavenly Father.
>1 John 1:9
Jesus allows his apostles to go and forgive sins in John 20:22–23. Jesus is telling his apostles that by the power of the Holy Spirit he has given them the power to forgive and retain the sins of men. Having the power to forgive and to retain sins implies that the apostle knows what a person’s sins are, which in turn implies oral confession.
>Deut 18:10-11 and Commandments
Please look at Rev. 4:10, 5:8, 6:9-11. Also in John 11:25 it confirms the saints are not dead but living in Jesus.
I'd also like to point out James 5:16-17
>Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects
hus, according to Scripture, God wants us to pray for one another. This must mean that prayer for one another cannot detract from the role of Jesus Christ as our one mediator with God.

>>15736856
>this concerns you too
Getting crucified is not a fucking "win", you imbecile.

>>15736845
Yeah, but it depends on why you want to read.

If you're interested in learning more about Orthodoxy as an outsider, you should read Ware's The Orthodox Church. It's an excellent treatment of both the history and the practice.

If you're interested in why Orthodoxy is beautiful, you should read A Pilgrim's Way and listen to the Vespers in a language you understand.

If you want to read theology, you can read the Philokalia for a work central to many modern Orthodox, or Pseudo Dionysus The Areopagite's Mystical Theology, which is one of the most influential Christian texts ever written and beautiful even divorced of all context. Both are available online.

A warning: the Philokalia and A Pilgrim's Way both deal with Heysachist practice, which is a practice one should do while actually in a spiritual community with a mentor of some kind.

The best option of all is finding a church!

>>15736885
ok Luther it's well past your bedtime, it's almost dawn in Lutter and you have to be up to fuck your neighbor's wife real soon now

>>15736820
>>15736909
I'm catholic?

>>15736602
To answer your question OP, start with the Catechism of the Catholic Church, The FOur Witnesses by Rod Bennett (it's about the writings of some 1st century AD saints and their perogative on the Early Church that Protties magically ignore), After Virtue by Alasdair MacIntyre (Not really Catholic but he is so I guess it counts), any theology books by C.S. lewis (he's not Catholic but his books are good). From there, read St. Augustine's Confessions, his City of God and the other Church Fathers along with Aristotle's Nichmachaen Ethics, Physics, Metaphysics, On the Soul and On the Heavens and Boethius' The Consolation of Philosophy. Then read Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologica. I'd advise reading a commentary of it first before reading the whole thing or at least reading a redacted version like that of Penguin Classics Selected Writings of Thomas Aquinas. Also read Saint Theresa of Avila's Interior Castle and The Last Superstition by Ed Feser along with The Story of a Soul by St. Therese de Lisieux. But most importantly, pray, read the Bible on a daily basis and go to Mass on a weekly basis. Learning about God is very good but it's only by getting close to him in the Eucharist spiritually that we see the truth of faith. Also, I said this before but read the Catechism as fast as you need to and as much as you need to in order to understand the teachings of the Magisterium on Sacred Tradition, Apostolic Succession and all the other teachings of the Church.

>>15736856
I'm not going to get into a fight with a retard starting shit. Fuck off you dolt.

>>15736869
Great lad, just found out yesterday for certain that I'm Irish-German, about 60% Irish. I've been planning on most likely moving to the Republic eventually anyway since I was a kid, once I get done with school it might be worth it.
>>15736877
So I suppose Dostoevsky isn't allowed here either, considering he writes philosophical fiction, and philosophy is for /his/?
>Dont you think that is a cause for concern (which points to ulterior motives) when you haven't even read the bible or formed any kind of relationship with Jesus? I mean just look at one of the reasons you gave - "and due to my heritage"
No. My family is Catholic, my friends are Catholic, and community is extremely important to me. If there were to be some infallible evidence in the Bible that leads me to reject Catholicism, then I would do it, but from what I know, there isn't.
>Also, do you not see a anything curious about that school of thought being primarily an American phenomena? The country that is heart of Protestantism an heretical deviations (even from a Protestant perspective via groups like the JWs Mormons and 7th Day Adventists).
I thought it was wrong and racist to consider the historical locations of different religious sects?
>>15736898
I'll write these down then, along with your descriptions, and read them eventually depending on what I'm looking for.

>>15736883
God received the payment. We are sinners unworthy of the kingdom of heaven. So Jesus died on our behalf. God showed that He loves us more than we can ever imagine. Now no more sacrifices are required. Only repentance and following Jesus' commandments. Which were 2; Love God (that means follow His commandments, which is more than 2), and love thy neighbor like you do yourself.

>>15736891
Its our win. There's no way into the kingdom of heaven without it. Your good works will always fall short of God's perfect righteousness. No man is just by the law alone.

>>15736924
>who are the Jesuits
Catholicism is absolute idolatry, heresy, and the direct opposite of scripture.

>>15736672
While you should read it, do remember that (for most sane Christian denominations) the bible is not the literal word of God, it is the product of men who were divinely inspired but were, nonetheless, still men. In addition to this it was written by and for cultures which is very different to modern western culture and has been translated through several languages. Reading the bible alone without looking into the context in which it was written is almost certain to lead to some misconceptions.

>>15736930
So because our ancestors killed God's son, God rewards us with fewer laws to follow and entry into the kingdom of heaven? You know how batshit insane that sounds?

>Only repentance and following Jesus' commandments. Which were 2; Love God (that means follow His commandments, which is more than 2), and love thy neighbor like you do yourself.
WRONG. You've clearly never read the gospels.

>>15736922
whatever I actually accept that you mean well and are giving basically good advice and making good points, BUT

it's a bit silly to claim Jesus created the *Catholic Church* without clarifying that the all churches lay claim to being *the* church.

>>15736959
>our ancestors
Jews aren't my ancestors.

>>15736942
damn i'm the orthodox poster but you need to stop posting

>>15736967
OK, let me rephrase that:

So because some people 2000 years ago killed God's son, God rewarded them with fewer laws to follow and entry into the kingdom of heaven? You know how batshit insane that sounds?

>>15736942
>Pope claims divinity
He does not. The pope is a human being. He represents Christ on Earth.
>Claiming the power to forgive sins is blasphemy
John 20:22-23
> “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained”
This allows the priests of the Church to hear confessions and absolve sins

>>15736959
Jesus came to bring sinners to repentance and to die for our sins. He always knew His destiny.

>WRONG
>never read the gospels
clearly you haven't. The gospel is about Jesus' life, death, and resurrection, and what that means for us.

>>15736805
What are the arguments for God that you find likely? Also would you care if Christianity is inherently true or do you just want something to believe in? If you care about following the truth, which is a very Christian concept, I consider you objectively research arguments for and against christianity.

>>15736769
Sedes believe in Vatican 1 and the authority of the Pope, they just believe that the office is vacant. Protestantism is a very specific religious tradition with core beliefs that sedes reject, you can't just claim that someone is not catholic or orthodox so he must be protestant.

>>15736806
Protestants support the early church. Luther and Calvin both were inspired by St. Augustine. Plus the eastern church never used Jerome's vulgate and they could argue Catholics removed books

>>15736775
Even if those verses support that Peter had authority above the other apostles and represented christ, how does this support that the Bishops of Rome are Peter's successors and inherit his authority? Especially given that Peter founded other dioceses first (according to Christian tradition, I'm not sure if he really had that much influence irl).

I'm not even Christian, I just like to argue. Also this thread got nothing to do with literature

>>15736980
>pope is a human being
>He represents Christ on Earth
>doesn't claim divinity
Christ isn't divine?

Look how much they got your mind twisted. Stick to the scripture. The church will only lead you away from the truth of it.

>>15736965
I understand that. The Catholic Church's is still the most grounded in scripture but faith is still a large part of it.

The Roman Catholic Church is the original Church as founded by Peter and therefore the One True Church

>>15736977
If you truly repent, you will follow God's commandments. Not out of a sense of duty, but because you want to.

>>15736994
>Jesus came to bring sinners to repentance and to die for our sins.
Horseshit. He never said that.

>The gospel is about Jesus' life, death, and resurrection
You couldn't be more wrong.

>>15737013
>Protestantism is a very specific religious tradition with core beliefs

fucking what lmaoooo

>>15737034
Utter nonsense.

>>15737037
Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

>>15737019
Let's say you are representing the USA in a UN assembly. Are you the president of the US?

>>15737044
That is what repentance is. A 180 on your wicked ways.

>>15736926
>he writes philosophical fiction, and philosophy is for /his/?
Again its content of the discussion not its source as the rule clearly shows. For instance a discussion on discussion on Dostos use of philosophy is lit, the validity of his philosophical thought and its consequences are /his/

>No.
Well it should be.

>I thought it was wrong and racist to consider the historical locations of different religious sects?
Where do you get this from is that because I said you were a racist because it upsets you that a Pope would kiss the feet a black person and that you think he would only do something like that as a reparation?

There is no link to race in my comment - all I am pointing to are the various links pointing to sedevaticanism being a protestant group

The unique degree and scale of religious freedom and room to experiment is what why the United states is the heart of Protestantism and why it is the source of so many heresies - nothing to do with race.

(and dont think I didn't notice you avoid that part in my earlier post showing sedes being Protestant under Vatican I.)

>>15737027
>The Catholic Church's is still the most grounded in scripture

I think this is an interesting distinction to make, since Orthodox and Catholics are less literate in the Bible than, say, the average Baptist, but I think they're also vastly more grounded than Baptists precisely because of what they have in addition to scripture.

>>15737047
He never says he's going to die for anyone's sins.

>>15737051
>take a catholic to use a corrupt organization to validate another corrupt organization
can't make this shit up

>>15737063
He knew exactly where He was headed.

>>15736602
>due to the original church of Jesus
There never was one. The first people to convert to Christianity were the Armenians.
The first Protestants were the Arianists, but before the Eastern Orthodox could muscle them away there was the Gnostics.
This all before the iconoclasts. So no, Catholicism isn’t the “original”. The pope just has the highest chair and has used it to deviate into a pseudo-paganism for conversion sake.

They’re all heresy.

>>15737013
>What are the arguments for God that you find likely?
Primarily, the two arguments that changed my thought is that of the unmoved mover (which I admit I don't know much about), and the nature of free will along with how time is processed. I had a couple threads where I talked to a guy about how, due to the way time is processed (basically, our perception of time is constantly moving, whereas an external viewer would see both past, present and future. Time, as far as we now, and I've talked to an astronomy professor with this, is processed as a sort of "ball" of yarn in which one piece is pulled from, creating our perception of time.)
>Also would you care if Christianity is inherently true or do you just want something to believe in?
I do care whether or not Christianity is true (as one who's observed the truth cannot deny it, and must oblige it), but I'll admit that it is partially because I simply want something to believe in. A big part of it is, like I said, my heritage and the morality of the Bible, along with the fact that I believe authoritative religion is required for our world to stay in line. I do, though, think that quite a bit of the Christian/Catholic history is very convincing, particularly the actions of Saint Joan of Arc.
>If you care about following the truth, which is a very Christian concept, I consider you objectively research arguments for and against christianity.
I'm actually planning on reading some works about this once I'm done the Bible, particularly the Summa Theologica.

>>15737058
That's what tradition is for my friend.

>>15737067
Stop trying to dodge the issue. He never says he's going to die for anyone's sins, or as part of a payment to Yahweh, or whatever nonsense you came up with.

>>15737068
wrong on every point, impressive

If only KJVonlyists actually read the bible.

>>15737013
>Protestants support the early church. Luther and Calvin both were inspired by St. Augustine.
Maybe but they don't understand him very well. in order to understand the Church Fathers, you really have to understand the philosophical landscape onto which they were pinning their theology. St. Augustine was influenced a lot by Aristotle, the NeoPlatonists and the Stoics. It's from the Stoics that he derives his compatibalist theory of free will
he uses to combat Pelagius and his heresy. The problem is John Calvin and Martin Luther over stretch it into a hard determinism where God has an elect (which is in the Bible) damns people to hell before they are born (which isn't and is pretty opposed to the teachings of Christ dying for all men). In addition, he also wrote De libero arbitro (On Free will), which definitely isn't what the Reformers would have thought of his works and gives more of a divine synergistic view of God giving us the grace to do good works and building up grace in order to do His work on Earth and attain the Kingdom at our death, all of our own volition (should we choose to accept God's graces and continue to do so).

>Plus the eastern church never used Jerome's vulgate and they could argue Catholics removed books
That is a definite maybe, but the books they added from what I've seen aren't really antithetical to the Church's teaching. They're just long lists IIRC. It's not that they aren't considered inspired, but they don't really serve much of a purpose in the Bible.

>>15737057
>Again its content of the discussion not its source as the rule clearly shows.
The discussion pivots on Biblical scripture, therefore it is a literary discussion. How long do you want to argue semantics?
>Well it should be.
No, it shouldn't. Not in my case, at least.
>There is no link to race in my comment
Ah, I've got it, you're a traveler. Go back to your home site.
>>15737068
God I want to fuck you, Butterfly.

>>15737068
You're one dumb tranny. You managed to get every single point horrendously wrong. Just shut up and stop embarrassing yourself for once.

>>15737085
>>15737100
No arguments detected. She's right and you know it.

>>15737083
John 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?

Luke 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: 16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

etc..

Jesus always knew His destiny, and the reason for it.
>he never directly said "I'm getting crucified!"
Doesn't change the fact.

>>15737085
>>15737100
Opinionated at some points but completely true. Do some research

>>15737013
>Sedes believe in Vatican 1 and the authority of the Pope, they just believe that the office is vacant

And that belief entails the rejection of the current Pope as Peter's Successor. Its akin to Mormons saying they believe in the Bible they just believe that there are more Books to it.

>Protestantism is a very specific religious tradition with core beliefs that sedes reject.
Its not, it includes everyone from Quakers to Calvanists and even people who believe they are the second coming of Jesus.

>You can't just claim that someone is not catholic or orthodox so he must be protestant

You have a diverse group of Christians who deny the legitimacy of the current and recent popes and who wish to reform the Church's leadership and Doctrines to return them to what they believe to be a purer and older form. These groups have no central leadership and cluster around specific influential individuals some of whom claim to Papal Authority.

>>15737064
???
it was an analogy

>>15737093
like what the NIV? lol

>>15737111
Are you retarded? Of course he predicts his death constantly throughout the gospels. That's not what you are claiming.

Jesus never says he's going to die for anyone's sins, or as part of a payment to Yahweh, or whatever nonsense you came up with.

The KJV is a fundamentally Anglican translation
KJVonlyists come home

>>15737134
I never claimed that He said that you reprobate mongrel.

I said that "He died for our sins". Which is objectively true.

>>15737152
Everything Jesus says contradicts your retarded theory. Not to mention it is internally nonsensical.

>>15737158
>Jesus didn't die for our sins
Is that what you're saying?

>>15737133
>not learning Latin at a young age so you can read the best version
Quit while you're ahead

>>15737166
>not learning Greek at a young age so you can read the best version, the LXX
FTFY anon, we're meant to help our brothers out, I can't have you slip like that

>>15737166
Go pay $666 and pray to an inanimate obje... ahem, I mean Mary, and pretend that the pedo pope (and not God) can absolve sins.

>>15737097
>The discussion pivots on Biblical scripture,
Would you rather I ignore what you write? When you write stuff like that I points to you not understanding my previous example with Dosto.

>No, it shouldn't. Not in my case, at least.
How so? Its the most difficult bias to overcome and its something that is already guiding your actions and search. Would you not give similar warnings to someone in a Muslim country seeking God?

>Ah, I've got it, you're a traveler. Go back to your home site.
Trying to deligitimise me to avoid my points wont help you on your journey. I could be wrong though - if it wasnt racism they why did bring up the Pope's practice of Maundy on Black people as something that made you doubt his and the CCs legitimacy.

>>15737119
>>15737109

>Opinionated at some points
Yes
>but completely true
No. The first converts to Christianity were Jews. That's why there's not a whole lot of mention of it's existence till 60 AD, because by then the Early Church had formally split from the Jewish faith and the Romans didn't even take heed until then because they just thought Christians were a new breed of Jews until they started evangelizing to Romans, which Jews don't typically do. The point of the Arians is sorta right, but Gnosticism is just Greek mystery religions with a Christian veneer on it. It's didn't even appear till the late first century AD, a few decades after the Council of Jerusalem in 50 AD and after Peter went to Rome in ~60-64 AD and became the Pope.

So yeah none of your points are right and you should shut up because you are a dumb tranny an I actually research this stuff unlike you.

>>15737175
>>15737191
i expected better of you all

>>15737201
What do you mean, anon? What's wrong with the Septuagint?

>>15737201
I'm sorry you've been misled by the corrupt teachings of a Jesuit owned institution. You are the church anon, your body houses the Holy Spirit. The only medium between yourself and your Creator you will ever need, is Christ himself.

1 Corinthians 6:19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

>>15736602
Read NASB, NRSV, or KJV if you enjoy Shakespearean/Early modern English. Don’t waste time with “””tradition””””, just delve into the Holy Bible yourself and yourself alone.

>>15737194
>converts to Christianity were Jews
Not what I said. The Jews were a subjugated people and no, they obviously didn’t all convert to Jesusism or Paulism. The Armenians did all convert.
The Gnostics were the first to try and make sense of this awkward and impossible fusing of “old and new testaments”. They would have gotten away with it too if it wasn’t for illiterate dumb guys in the church.
What an ass. 100%. Go flush your head in the toilet a few times for me.

>>15737193
>When you write stuff like that I points to you not understanding my previous example with Dosto.
I assume you meant to write that YOU don't understand MY previous example with Dostoevsky. The discussion is pivoting on Biblical scripture, as you can see from the rest of this thread. Stop being a dumbass.
>How so?
Because I spent quite some time researching whether or not the existence of God is plausible and likely, and then even more on whether or not Catholicism/Sedavancanism is a good option. Whether or not this is biased doesn't matter to me, I've spoken to Catholics, Athiests, and Protestants non-stop regarding theology, and have done my best to get rid of any massive bias. Everything you do or say is biased in life innately, your insistence on me abandoning my people and my people's God is seeming particularly subversive to me.
>Trying to deligitimise me to avoid my points wont help you on your journey.
That's not why I "tried to delegitamise" you. You haven't made any points besides "dude you're biased and racist." I've been having good conversations with most other people in this thread besides you, regardless of their denomination or beliefs.

>>15737242
>The Jews were a subjugated people and no, they obviously didn’t all convert to Jesusism or Paulism. The Armenians did all convert.
Literally there is no difference between the Gospels and the Epistles of Paul, other than maybe the narrative aspect of the Gospels versus the pirely didactic nature of St. Paul's letters . I literally do not get why people propagate this meme, which it is frankly. Also yeah, they didn't all convert clearly but people of that ethnicity were the first converts. This has nothing to do with the nations to fully convert nor really does that have to do with anything at all.

>The Gnostics were the first to try and make sense of this awkward and impossible fusing of “old and new testaments”.
If you read the New Testament, even the structure of the Gospels tell you fucking otherwise. John focuses on Jesus' divinity and him as the Logos. Luke focuses on Jesus' mission towards the Gentiles and Matthew and Mark focus on Jesus as the Messiah, which is why they refer to Jesus' bloodline through Mary and his step-father David. it also has a bunch of OT Scriptures. Same thing with Paul in a lot of his Epistles and in Acts even at one point IIRC although he tend to do it less because the Gentile audience isn't as keen on Jewish Scripture. Please stop fucking embarrassing yourself, you don't know shit from shinola. You're a fucking 46 year old woman on an internet imageboard acting like her stupid conspiracy theories are ground-breaking research meanwhile
I actually read people that do shit like this for a living. Again, you're a dumb tranny. Go join the 41% club

>>15737312
Totally agree! Jesus came not to change any tick of the law that God had established with Moses and there forward.

>>15737039
I never said that there aren't many branches, just that they share central concepts such as sola scripture, sola fide, universal priesthood, mass isn't a sacrifice, etc.

>>15737069
Yeah I recommend Aquinas's 5 ways, it's early in the summer, and is a really intelligent argument for God. If you're interested in philosophy, I recommend David Hume's "An Enquiry of Human Nature" and Immanuel Kant's "Critique of Pure Reason" as arguments against Aquinas (Spinoza and Duns Scotus also argue against aquinas but they're more niche).

>>15737128
Vatican 1 says that there are successors to Peter, says nothing about whether the current claimants are real popes. Most sedes would assent that if the current claimant is the true pontiff, they must be obedient to him for salvation. The argument is not on dogma, but rather whether someone holds an office.

Also see above about the protestants, just because they have various sub-traditions that doesn't mean they don't share a common set of beliefs.

>>15737312
>Literally there is no difference between the Gospels and the Epistles of Paul
Lmao. You can't be serious.

>>15737312
>nor really does that have to do with anything at all.
Except what I fucking said in the first place

And no, they’re incompatible. Yhwh is a sensible old god of wrath. One has to explain why “life is suffering”. The New Deal god was just some guy trying to make some points.

>>15737330
>Jesus came not to change any tick of the law
Then why do you not keep the passover, like the Last Supper was. Why a thousand heresies and deviations?
>uh, it’s duh new covenant, mang!
More contradictions

>>15737384
I do practice the Jewish holidays, who said I did not? Sabbath is Friday sunset to Saturday sunset.

>>15737395
thats a dope way of looking at it

>>15737271
>The discussion is pivoting on Biblical scripture, as you can see from the rest of this thread. Stop being a dumbass.
Which is the point of the Dosto example its a religious discussion based on literature and not a discussion on religious literature.

>and have done my best to get rid of any massive bias.
Given how big this bias can be and mind you just consider the leap that would need to be made to say become a Muslim or Jew (to the extent one can) am I so wrong to make a big point of raising this as something to consider

>Your insistence on me abandoning my people and my people's God is seeming particularly subversive to me.
Think of where we are. 4chan is the home of LARPers and DAS VALT. When I saw the language you used and given this context it immediately gave me the indication of Phyletism. Is that such an absurd thing for me to think?

>You haven't made any points besides "dude you're biased and racist."
Well firstly and to that last point I made how should we understand your comment in the OP about Black people? I am more than happy to take that comment back and say I misunderstood you if thats the case.

Thirdly I have made various points as to why it is legitimate to view Sedevaticanists as Protestants. I have pointed to their many similarities with Protestants both in their formation and behavior as well as certain aspects of belief.

>>15737384
>Yhwh is a sensible old god of wrath. One has to explain why “life is suffering”. The New Deal god was just some guy trying to make some points.
No one cares, you stupid tranny. You clearly don't know what you are talking about and seeing that even in the Gospels, Jesus fucking explains why the Old Covenant was the how the New Covenant is the fulfillment of the Old Covenant, not the removal of it.

>Then why do you not keep the passover, like the Last Supper was.
I'll take the Eucharist for $500, Alex?
>More contradictions
Imagine being this retarded. You'd make a better housewife than a philosopher or theologian. He at least you would be a pathetic catlady shitposting on a Polish sausage making imageboard as a 46 year old woman with dudes in their early 20s.

>>15737378
>Vatican 1 says that there are successors to Peter, says nothing about whether the current claimants are real popes.
I would say that its statements on the principle of perpetuity which is something which speaks o the legitimacy of the current claimants/Popes.

>>15737437
>No one cares
I wish
>There are no contradictions in my bible! Fag!

>>15737519
This would be a deathblow if I were a fundie literalist. Thankfully, even the Early Church Fathers advocated against literalism. Stupid fucking tranny.

>>15737442
Well that just depends on the interpretation of perpetual successors. It could be argued that it means there will be pontiffs up until the end of the world not that there must always be a pontiff (like in the the periods between the death and election of a pontiff. But such a long period of sedevacantism would be unprecedented

Read Moses the Egyptian and convert to Neoplatonism

>>15737573
>Early Church Fathers advocated against literalism
So they ostracized the other church founders for using forbidden testaments to writings to make sense of the contradictions.
Good job. Ever more layers of hypocrisy and dumbfuckery

>>15737630
Whatever you stupid deadegger. Believe all the stupid bullshit you want.

>>15736602
It seems that you have been having a Trad fad moment. That is you're interested in the aesthetics of Catholicism but, not the actual essence or belief.

What is inspiring your interest in the faith?
Maybe you can start by reading this, If this doesn't remotely intrigue you then you should abandon this pursuit: https://catholicstraightanswers.com/why-be-a-catholic/

>>15737780
But you don't believe in biological sex or GMOs or that transgenderism is a mental disease (gender dysphoria). All these have been determined by scientific study, no scientific study has disproven the existance of satan or ghosts.

>>15738086
Not OP, but I think that instead of telling Op why to be a Catholic let him make the choice himself by analysis of scripture. Then should make the decision if he wanted to delve into any denomination for none at all.

>>15738101
Well, OP's asking about Catholicism explicitly

>>15738100
>But you don't believe in biological sex or GMOs or that transgenderism is a mental disease (gender dysphoria).
But that’s not right.
> no scientific study has disproven the existance of satan or ghosts.
And there’s no scientific study proving that Harry Potter isn’t a real wizard boy.

>>15738124
NP. But Trad Fad can be a way to truly learn. If he chooses Catholicism just because with nothing to back, he will fall away from the faith entirely.

>>15736698
reading now thx

>>15737780

Neither of those things are "irrational".

>>15736602
None of this shit is actually real so it has little to no substance and will not improve your life in any way. In addition to this, you're pretentious and you're only trying to use religion as a fashion accessory. Likely due to your lack of personality. Save yourself the embarassment and go do something else. Preferably on another board. Ideally on another website. The one that you emigrated here from in the first place would be a decent choice.

>>15737194
don't argue with the trip but she's actually the *most* wrong about "Arians" being the first heresy. Honestly, so little is known about any of this period that it's hard to say, but there's no question that nominal Christians in the first and second century held a wide array of views, as the spread of Christianity lead to syncretic adoption of belief.

It's certainly possible that the core Christology of so-called Arians comes from Arius in the third century, but I don't think that's clear. What IS clear is that the Marcionists (pre-Paulicians) were around over a century before Arius was born, rendering the argument that "Arianism is the first heresy" completely void.

That's not to say that Arianism isn't an important moment in Christianity, but it needs to be pinpointed as the moment in which the Church accepted Imperial State intervention in the enforcement of ecumenical matters. It is, in essence, the rubicon of Christianity morphing into a state.

In summary, never reply to trips

>>15737240
i can respect someone suspicious of tradition but to think that you're capable of participation in Christianity without a community of believers is genuine and dangerous pride.

>>15737378
>just that they share central concepts such as sola scripture, sola fide, universal priesthood, mass isn't a sacrifice

protestants do not all share these views though

>>15737780
i love sapolsky but he's a fuckin boomer

>>15736602
Do you plan on attending church, OP?
That was always my biggest obstacle with Christianity that I still struggle with, I hate how churches often seem to undermine the spirit of worship with petty personal bullshit

THE PAPACY BELONGS TO AVIGNON

>>15736602
Whatever you do, don't be a Sede. Also, try not to be an American.

>>15739844
The Pope is Most Christian!