/lit/ - Literature

>>15690266
As show of good faith for legitimate discussion, I have uploaded the presentations from the Tradition in the Modern World DVD, which is movie of speeches and highlights taken at the Sacred Web Conference in 2006.

https://mega.nz/folder/Ux0CCYBY#RdB_cEAyMHAQxstqs8n7Dw

Some of the videos aren't properly segmented, like Nasr's speech running over into Chittick's, but these issues aren't too egregious and each video contains the presentation in full, so it shouldn't diminish your enjoyment. Just in case, I'm also uploading the the .iso files.

Most of the longer speeches can also be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxJQFnrtQX8&list=PL54E638E7A27466EF

Is Evola the only Traditionalist who wrote about psychedelics?

>>15690331
Forgot the pic.

I should also point out that only a segment of James S. Cutsinger's speech was included in the DVD and you can find the whole speech here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDNHM84lBA0&list=PL54E638E7A27466EF&index=5

>>15690334
jünger wrote some interesting reflections on them and hung out with the inventor of LSD personally while he was friends with eliade, there is a festschrift for eliade with contributions from cioran and ricoeur that also has jünger's essay on psychedelics in it. think it's called myths and symbols or something like that

also huxley's doors of perception

>>15690413
>huxley's
definitely NOT a traditoinlist.

Dugin has interesting viewpiont

>>15690420
he's okay, traditionalist shit is full of dilettantes and people who just repeat whatever schuon said anyway so you might as well have a wide tolerance for divergence and dabbling. especially for classic books that have been soft intros into esotericism for generations

>>15690428
what even is dugin ultimately?

>>15690420
His last book Island is sorta soft-traditionalism

Where do I start with Guenon? Is there required reading beforehand I should get through?

tizmok

>>15690603
Start with his first book "Introduction to the Study of the Hindu Doctrines", you can alternatively start with "Crisis of the Modern World" but if you do I recommend going back and reading "Intro" before proceeding further in his books. There isn't anything you really need to read first before him

>>15690334
I had a bad experience with LSD. It was fun at first, but after a while all I could think about was how much of a socially autistic loser I am. Is this part of the process? Is this part of the process to self-mastery?

>>15690445
What about east and west? Shouldn’t that come before crisis?

>>15690958
Yes, but if you're struggling to deal with it on an emotional level you can combine the LSD with MDMA.

>>15690428
Which is?

>>15690428
dugin is anti-tradition

>>15690266
Is Traditionalism gnostic?

>>15692331
4pt
>>15692524
no

>>15692524
not in the dualistic way, but it is gnostic in the sense salvation is acquired through gnosis.

Does anyone have that End of Evangelion meme with Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit, Guenon's reign of quantity, and a third book? the books were called the holy trinity and I'm interested to know what the third book was

>>15692839

>>15693201
thanks. how is kabbalah and psychoanalysis? do I need to be a jew to read it or get something out of it or is there something of value for an eastern orthodox like myself?

>>15691004
Crisis of the Modern World is like an expanded and revised edition of East and West. It's not needed before Crisis but if you intend to read most of Guenon you might as well read East and West first. Crisis is more focused although East and West has some really good moments that are as good as the best parts of Crisis IMO.

>>15690266
What are the best books that influenced traditionalist thought without necessarily being trad themselves (anti-materialist philosophy, theology, etc)?

>>15693284
my plan is to go Introduction to the study of Hindu doctrines -> East and West -> Crisis of the modern world -> the reign of quantity ad signs of the times and then just go from there

What is your take on in-depth reconstruction movements like the Florentine Neoplatonists, the Kashmiri Shaivism revival, etc.

thank you for your thread anon

Have you read it? Does Bannon’s interest and Guenon and Evola make him based?

>>15693552
Perennialism was first conceived in the Renaissance by Marsilio Ficino and his student Giovanni Pico della Mirandola. In terms of politics, Rene Guenon is usually compared to Joseph de Maistre. In terms of metaphysics, Guenon based much of his outlook on Advaita Vedanta, particularly the writings of Adi Shankara, but many Traditionalists also conclude ibn-Arabi and Meister Eckhart grasped the esoteric core of their respective religions that are in accordance with the non-dualist doctrine of Advaita Vedanta.

>>15694575
thanks. how about german idealism? how does it fit into traditionalist thought?

>>15694584
I'm not well read on the German Idealists to give you an answer, sorry.

How exactly do Perrenialists reconcile the "all religions lead to one esoteric secret" belief with Abrahamic religions that say that God will damn everyone who doesn't respect their God?

>>15694708
There are a few videos in the mega link of the second post that explain that, particularly Joseph Lumbard's and David Dakake's presentations, and the Q&A panel.

>>15693930
A dead tradition is, well, dead and stays dead. It's impossible to reconstruct a tradition that is 100% identical to the original because once there is a break in the chain of initiation, the esoteric teachings/interpretations are lost. Even if all the books and scripture were reconstructed to their original, you still need someone who understands the tradition to properly interpret them for you. To paraphrase from the Phaedrus of Plato, "a text cannot defend itself without it's father, nor can it choose who it dispenses its wisdom to, and if the text is asked to clarify itself, all it can do is repeat what it has just said."

>>15695934

ctrl-f "Scruton," 0 results
What kind of traditionalist thread is this? Do you mean a crypto-fascist thread?

>>15696244
>everything I don't like is crypto-fascism
you sound like a dumb leftist

>>15696352
Nope I am pretty right wing, and there's nothing wrong with the thread but a lot of this is right-wing esotericism not "traditionalism"

>>15696440
When people use 'Traditionalism' in this thread it's a given that they are using it in the sense defined by Guenon and others in the Traditionalist school. If you take issue with that then you should make your own small 't' traditionalism thread instead of complaining about people are having an on-topic discussion about something which it's the whole purpose of the thread to discuss

>>15696474
Fair enough man.

>>15694584
Evola's earlier writings were pretty influenced by German Idealism but most of the Traditionalists writers more or less reject it as profane philosophical speculation and would consider that it has no real importance. They usually don't mention it in their books but the few mentions of Kant, Hegel etc are dismissive.

>>15696603
Really? I imagined that idealism would be pretty compatible with traditionalism as it suggests a subjective component to reality which goes against materialism

>BTFO Hinduism
>BTFO Sufism
>BTFO Guenon
>BTFO trad retards
woah....

>>15696920
Insofar as they both disagree with materialism and say that there is something greater going on there is agreement. And some of the mystical speculations of them at times partially coincidence with eastern doctrines (i.e. Hegel's the Absolute coming to know itself), perhaps this is due to the influence of Hermetecism, Neoplatonism, Bohme etc upon the German idealists. IDK if you've read Guenon but once you do it becomes why he would have an issue with it. The German idealists were not initiates of any established tradition of spiritual teachings and were just sort of throwing a bunch of ideas at the wall to assemble their own ad-hoc metaphysics, which goes against what Traditionalism stands for.

>>15696991
He doesn't btfo anyone
All his arguments are basically "it is like this because god said so"

>>15697051
>it is like this because god said so
woah he was THAT based?

>>15694433
I have not read either, but I would assume that Mark Sedgewick's 2019 book "Key Thinkers of the Radical Right: Behind the New Threat to Liberal Democracy" most likely treats the same subject with a greater degree of intellectual depth and less kvetching. Sedgewick's book focuses on the intellectual history and basis of the new anti-modern thinkers and he wrote a previous book on the Traditionalist school but Teitelbaum's book looks like it caters to the Russiagate crowd in search of a new conspiracy to get excited over. I could be wrong though

>>15696244
Scruton is Douglas Murray tier (minus the degenerate lifestyle). He is essentially a liberal who likes the aesthetics and fruits of traditionalism but not willing to articulate the fundamentals and what they imply publicly.

>>15697131
Yes.
Beating atheists in debates with a crowd of hundreds ready to jump on them if they disagree is very based indeed

Good traditionalist article that touches modern times better than ever, in my opinion.

https://www.scribd.com/document/334524199/Hexentanz-the-Sinister-Masquerade-of-the-Kaliyuga
Another link to it:
http://online.fliphtml5.com/oqoc/klav/#p=1

Not many people in these threads are ever interested in discussing the extreme solidification of Kali-Yuga and what properly can be called End Times.

Personaly the "Fourth Industrial Revolution" agenda set forth few months ago by World Economic Forum among their concept of the "Great Reset" is in my opinion paving away to the system that was described by Lee Penn (among others) in detail.

Especially this book: http://www.leepenn.org/FalseDawn_np.pdf

People in these threads seem to extremely dissociated from the current times and argue about some metaphysical terms of Vedanta or some other total irrelevant factors.

Why we cannot talk about the Current times?

Why exactly is a clear line between exoteric and esoteric practice considered to be important? I understand that he rejected Shia Islam because the exoteric and esoteric were too interlinked, yes?

>>15690266
while you larp in trad threads, im out being trad by brushing dirt off horses
no amount of evola and tradposting will make you know this feel.

>>15698733
What are you going on about? I never claimed I was a Traditionalist.

>>15698733
being trad has to do with values, spirituality and morality. Cleaning horse manure does not make you trad.

>>15698698
we should make a modern world crisis general or something, there are a lot of authors that are not associated with guenon that write on this topic and i'm more interested in that than in vain metaphysical larping these threads produce

>>15690266
where to start with learning Arabic?

>>15690603

>>15690445
>what even is dugin ultimately?
a kremlin shill

There is another biography on Julius Evola coming out soon, and it focuses on his WW2 years. I'm kind of tempted to preorder it.

https://www.amazon.com/Julius-Evola-Philosopher-Magician-1943-1945/dp/1620558068/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

>>15690266
>be french
>move to egpyt
>convert to pisslam
Do tradniggers really?

>>15703504
Yes

prove that Guenon was actually a traditionalist and not a masonic, advaita vedantist larping as a muslim.

>>15691048
>combine the LSD with MDMA.
Yeah, don't do this

Can a kind anon give me a quick rundown on Traditionalism, especially as it relates to our current epoch? I am initially drawn to Guenon because I’ve always been fascinated by nondualism, Eastern religions, Jungian psychoanalysis, and theories of history that incorporate all the aforementioned. But I’m also hesitant because of how often I see tradposting associated with political memeing. Does Guenon offer a complex, nuanced paradigm, or is it simple and ideological?

>>15704615
From a civilization led by spiritual leaders and by a sacred regality, a shift occurred to civilizations led by mere warrior aristocracies; the latter were eventually replaced by the civilization of the Third Estate. The last stage is the collectivist civilization of the Fourth Estate and the Industrial Revolution.

Reneissance was a false enlightenment.
Distinction must be made between Hyperborean Tradition and Atlantean Tradition. (See Guénon Cosmic cycles)

To view history and current epoch is to understand we are in a cycliacl descent and even false "new dawns" like the reneissance were actually harmful to Western Society.

>>15704615
Traditionalism refers to the esoteric truths and teachings that are shared by the revealed religions of the world and other smaller traditions that are able to intuit and perceive these metaphysical truths, which all stem from a Primordial Tradition. Tradition is this context is not at all used in the colloquial sense, but etymologically of the latin word 'tradere' which means "to pass down", however. Traditionalism is still an inadequate term, because -ism implies that it is a constructed theory by man, which would make the school of Traditional-ism "new", but these truths have always existed and will always exist, and every tradition in history and prehistory were capable of comprehending these truths. Therefore, it is preferable to call it the Sophia Perennis.

>>15704296
Candy flipping is a valid and safe combination, the main thing is to drop the md as late as possible that both highs still overlap so that when you're coming down off the LSD you aren't already down from the md

>>15690958
Psychedelics are not a cheat code to spiritual awareness and metaphysical intuition by themselves, and no, you are not your own shaman. At worst you will give yourself psychosis or fuck up your sensory cognition in some way, but chances of that happening are very slim. At best you may perceive there is some greater meaning in your hallucinogenic experience, but will have a tenuous grasp on what it is, unless you know a shaman/medicine man/witch doctor who can interpret your vision for you. Then, there is the possibility of taking it upon yourself to interpret your vision out of arrogance, condescendingly pontificate about "muh energies" and telling people who haven't ever tripped balls that "you don't get it, man", and will likely end up becoming a deadhead.

>>15690266
bumo

How does Guenon (pbuh) refute Pyyrho?

>>15703321
sounds pretty kino

>>15690958
when you stop being a socially autistic loser, do it again.

bump

I have nothing to add, but I am glad this thread exists

I know trad people love Shaivism, but why do they never talk about Vaishnavism?

bump

Frithjof Schuon is pure kino
I want to get into the Red Indian trad game because of him

>>15709308
Posts like your are exactly why these threads suck, and will suck forever.

>oh my adya sakti of agni kapaloka is SO much better than the sampradaya definition of Vasihnavite school

You are a LARPER. You LARP. It's not tradition, it's a white, flabby boy in western world learning sanskrit and hindu terms and larping a fucking sage in this thread.

We should be talking about this >>15698698
but you want to larp, you want to talk about your daydream type of exoticism and whatnot.

India is a shithole. The people there live in harmony with animal feces, their civilization and culture has been a total failure. Even their commercial food that you buy in stores has on average more feces concentration because of the contaminated water than some African countries. INDIA IS A TOTAL SHITHOLE

>>15709308
You are worse than Theosophists.

Can I just jump into this? Tell me more about the Ayy's.

>>15712319
I own the book, and quite frankly, it offers little to none new information. The book is extremely short too.


Books you should actually buy on the subject:

>Charles Upton - The System of Antichrist
This book contains almost all the identical chapters that are featured in Upton's book "Cracks in the Great Wall"

>Jacques Vallée - Messengers of Deception
Vallee might not be a traditionalist, but a scientist, but he shifted in the 60s from the view that Ufos are "visitors from outer space" to a view that they are identical to the old records of interactions with demons, djinn, gnomes and elves elementals. See also Vallee's others books, he has maintained this view through the years.

>Can I just jump into this? Tell me more about the Ayy's.

Upton writes:
>LSD was not “activated” as a psychedelic until the first atomic bomb was detonated in New Mexico. (On the material side, this border apparently has something to do with the electromagnetic spectrum, which is why automobile engines will often die and electronic equipment malfunction in close proximity to a UFO.) Furthermore, those people Guénon called “agents of the Counter-Initiation”[32] are working to widen the cracks in the Great Wall consciously and deliberately.

You should see the wider, cultural ground where UFO phenomenon began, it unofficially started in 1948 with the Roswell incident. Then we got the "Atomic Age" and in the 60s with the whole Age of Aquarius, LSD, and Star Trek (Space Brotherhood) thing. Scientology most certainly also paved away for such pseudo-doctrines.

In all essence: it is the Gog and Magog entering our world through the cracks in the great wall.

>According to traditional eschatological doctrines a marked sign of the terminal phase of the Kaliyuga and of the end of time is the appearance of fissures and cracks in the ‘Great Wall’ which encloses and defends the sacred order and separates it from the ‘outer darkness’8: through these ‘cracks in the great wall’ as René Guénon has described the maleficent forces of Gog and Magog will invade the world, negative and infra-psychic influences seeping from below, from the infernal regions, into the universe

This sacred enclosure or wall that surrounds the cosmos and which holds back the incursions of demonic forces becomes damaged toward the closing phase of the cycle. The Judaeo-Christian tradition concerning this eventuality is described in the Apocalypse of St John ch.20:v.7-8 : ‘And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up over the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city.

>>15712425
>>15712319

To further understand the global nature of the Deception, one should read Lee Penn's False Dawn:
http://www.leepenn.org/FalseDawn_np.pdf

Belief in Ufos and New Age are all tied together.

I just checked libgen today. Julius Evola's book The Mask and Face of Contemporary Spiritualism is up.

>>15690266
In what way are Hart and Rose even remotely in the same school as each other, let alone as Evola?

>>15713464
Who the fuck cares? Why you cannot discuss actual Traditionalist content, but nitpicking of some sort of classifications or pointing out stupid shit like "You wrote this word wrong"

You seem anally-oriented extreme nitpicker who enjoys arguing about some totally irrelevant classification of sanskrit dictionaries. Some sort of archivist obsessed with knowledge, like a infra-human AI

Speak something practical, grounded to this reality, or leave this thread to edit wikipedia pages.

>>15713486
Sorry anon, I was legitimately curious--I don't see a similarity between the two at all, let alone between either of the two and Evola.

get this backwards trash out of here /pol/ tourist LARPer

>>15709308
Vaishnavism tends to be more focused on devotional worship and Shaivism tends to be more focused on metaphysics and yogic practices, although there are many exceptions to this for both type of sects. The people on /lit/ who read Hindu literature seem to be more into it for the metaphysics than the devotionalism which may be why. Also Shaivist groups typically are more open to initiating foreigners.

I, too, look forward to the René Guénon Magazine, Issue 2.

>>15713554
You do not know whereof you speak.

>>15712257
>>15712270
Wow, no need to be rude, I know nothing about Hinduism beyond what I have seen other people discuss.

I'm fucking disappointed in this thread.

I've traid to raise discussion of the current zeitgeist we live in (the Great Reset agenda by the globalists, the 4th industrial revolution) and talking these changes from the perspective of Guénon and other traditionalists laid down in the Reign of Quantity

No one is interested. No one cares about the "Signs of the Times", even the OP of this thread wants to talk some Guénon chronology and perhaps Islam

You are not traditionalist, you are not perennialist, you are archivists who cannot apply practical knowledge to current world and talk relevant factors of modernity from the point of view laid down by Evola and others.

Ride the Tiger? More like "Larp the desktop armchair philosopher"

You disgust me, all of you.

oh I thought this was gonna be like an SSPX traditional Catholic thread. well, I'm out.

>>15715653
You sound really immature, if nobody replies to your posts just accept it and move on. Nothing good comes from throwing a tantrum. If you read some of the spiritual literature that you are displaying such an antipathy towards you might learn learn how to be happier by not basing your satisfaction on frivolous external things like 4chan posts. I was planning to read the essay you linked but I needed to create some account to read it which I had not got around to doing yet, but seeing how you, who are evidently the author, has acted has made me lose interest in reading it

>>15690266
I'm gonna start with Lings and Schuon then dive into Guenon.

>>15715719
What's the point of discussing spiritual literature in these threads because it is clear that most of people in these thread are disconnected from reality and have found in Hindu scripters just a more complex and religiously aesthetic version of Dungeons & Dragons they grew up with?

We could talk of Vishnu Purana how most of the stuff prophecized in it has come true, how Koka and Vikoka of Vishnu Purana most certainly are etymologically connected to Gog and Magog who are said to be loosened toward the End of Kali-Yuga

No one is interested you see. You want to talk your "my favorite character is Hanuman because he has a big sword! look at the cool sword"

Most people in these threads would be better of reading the Golden Bough by Frazer who at least had some sort of mythological key to understand folk tales, myths and religious landscapes and apply to it reality to some degree.

In these threads there are no communication. It's just name dropping and archivist history club of nostalgia-buff coffee shop where people enter to smell farts of each other. Some even wear trips. Absolutely and fucking disgusting.

You people really are worse than Theosophists who "talk about yoga, but do no work"

>>15712540
when did this come out? quick rundown?

>>15690266
is taking the Sufi pill the first step to becoming trad?

>>15715824
>What's the point of discussing spiritual literature in these threads
Because they contain important spiritual lessons
>because it is clear that most of people in these thread are disconnected from reality and have found in Hindu scripters just a more complex and religiously aesthetic version of Dungeons & Dragons they grew up with?
this is projection, not everyone is burdened with the same problems that you have kiddo

>>15715824
trad authors have been usurped by an internet mob of new age people. one of the products is this thread. they do not realize they themselves have become what the trads stood against.

>>15716398
>Guenon: Western intellectuals studying eastern metaphysics will play a key role in restoring the West to the status of a Traditional culture
>anons: WTF! why are you talking about spiritual literature in a trad/perennialist thread?!? We're only supposed to talk about the larpy mythological aspects such as Hyperborea, Atlantis, Shambala and the Kali Yuga, every other discussion topic is a betrayal of traditionalism despite all the trad authors writing books on spiritual metaphysics and encouraging people to study it

>>15716426
are you implying the traditional elite guenon spoke of are in these threads? did you see the meme magazine and all the stupid memes they want to force? who are you trying to fool

I bought Lings' Muhammad biography since I'm close to finishing the Quran

>>15716442
No, I'm not implying that, there are probably people on /lit/ who have the potential to be that but that's not for me to judge. But disparaging eastern metaphysical and spiritual texts and dissuading people from reading them (except for the select few that support the narrative you want to talk about like the Vishnu Purana) is twisting the message of Guenon et al into the opposite of what they meant, you should be ashamed of yourself for perverting traditionalism as you are and for casting aspersions on people who seek legitimate spiritual inquiry.

>>15716146
>No, I'm not implying that, there are probably people on /lit/ who have the potential to be that but that's not for me to judge. But disparaging eastern metaphysical and spiritual texts and dissuading people from reading them
from my point of view these threads are anti-traditional made by a bunch of anti-traditionalists who believe in "self-initiation". the whole traditional critique of theosophy and orientalism relies precisely on this point.

>you should be ashamed of yourself for perverting traditionalism as you are and for casting aspersions on people who seek legitimate spiritual inquiry.
you say i'm "perverting traditionalism" on the grounds there are "legitimate spiritual inquiry". it doesn't matter the sentimentality people have on their seeking if they adopt counter-initiatic ways. theosophists and orientalists also believed they had good and legitimate intentions

i'm perverting traditionalism now. ok this is how bind your judgements are. you could not point 3 posts made by me itt.

>>15716504
>>15716504
It is you who are here projecting and who has extremely limited view what traditionalism consists of.

Guénon did have extremely macrocosmic works that concerned certain upheavals relating to Yugas and historical periods that are shrouded in myth (See for example: Traditional Forms and Cosmic Cycles)

Evola was also concerned with this reality, especially concerning the signs of the times: see for example: Men Among the Ruins and especially the chapter on Secret Causes of History.

It is you who here who does not want /trad/ general. It is clear that you want /Islam/ general or /Sufism/ general. It is clear that you people have little to none interest in what can be properly called Perennialist philosophy.

>>15716588
i misquoted i meant to quote >>15716504

>>15716604
>Guénon did have extremely macrocosmic works that concerned certain upheavals relating to Yugas and historical periods that are shrouded in myth (See for example: Traditional Forms and Cosmic Cycles)
for that anon they are just "larpy mythological aspects" yet guenon went as far as to calculate the duration of each yuga. these people are now going to claim they are more traditional than traditionalists

>>15716426
>We're only supposed to talk about the larpy mythological aspects such as Hyperborea,

If you would have actually ever read, or understood Guénon, you would also understand that the Primordial Tradition is synonymous with Hyperborea/Ultima Thule.

I personally do not have "fasnication" with /pol/ larping or some sort of Nordic ideals of "race pollution", but this sort of semitic mindset and perhaps almost Jihadist approach to only read Islam and Sufism has certainly rotted the brain, and very soul, perhaps by the more tainted parts of the Semitic psyche and religious inner life.

I feel bad for many people in these threads.

>>15716648
>but this sort of semitic mindset and perhaps almost Jihadist approach to only read Islam and Sufism has certainly rotted the brain, and very soul, perhaps by the more tainted parts of the Semitic psyche and religious inner life.
this opposition to "semitic" traditions is evolian madness. anyway people here are more infatuated with hinduism and properly eastern beliefs

cope

>>15716588
>from my point of view these threads are anti-traditional made by a bunch of anti-traditionalists who believe in "self-initiation"
I'm not sure why you would write that, I don't see many people who say they believe in self-initiation. I dont myself and have never posted in support of it.
>it doesn't matter the sentimentality people have on their seeking if they adopt counter-initiatic ways.
there is nothing counter-initiatic about having a simple good-faith discussion about Hinduism, Taoism, Islam etc and their spiritual literature and doctrines

>>15716604
I'm aware of all that Evola and Guenon wrote about cosmic cycles, yugas etc, I don't have a problem with any of that stuff and I agree with it. My only point of contention was that it's stupid to get mad at people for being more interested in talking about eastern metaphysics than that topic.
>It is you who here who does not want /trad/ general. It is clear that you want /Islam/ general or /Sufism/ general.
Again, I have not posted anything saying people shouldn't talk about that subject, I'm not sure where you are getting this impression, I have not made one post in this thread about Islam either.
>It is clear that you people have little to none interest in what can be properly called Perennialist philosophy.
Why would you say that? What an absurd assumption to make. I have studied multiple religions and read some of Guenon's, Coomaraswamy's and Schuon's writings on perrenialism and I consider myself to be a perrenialist.


It is clear that you people have little to none interest in what can be properly called Perennialist philosophy.

>>15716681
>this opposition to "semitic" traditions is evolian madness.

No it is not since you certainly lack the historical perspective to judge certain modern upheavals.

In your limited worldview, you probably do equate Zionism and modern state of Israel as being genuine revival of Judaism. For example, what if the Zionist-Military-Industrial complex goes on to rebuild the Third Temple so as to usher in the prayer house of all nations?

It seems to me that you truly lack awarness all sorts of modern subversive current and the Islam of Osama Bin Laden, or the extremists like ISIS, is probably 'good' in your books as long as they adhere to Sharia and other commandments?

Can you even distinguish what is genuine Judaism from that what is disguised as such in the modern world? I personally think you are not able to because you have misunderstood both Guénon and Evola.

>>15716681
>anyway people here are more infatuated with hinduism and properly eastern beliefs

In this way people posting this threads are pretty much indistinguishable from Theosophists. I actually believe lots of people here are crypto-Theosophists.

>>15716720
you do infer too much. i was in consonant agreement on your critique against this thread in favor of a contemporary crisis approach but you really do infer too much as you just proved now.

>In your limited worldview, you probably do equate Zionism and modern state of Israel as being genuine revival of Judaism.
no. there's no authentic judaism

>or example, what if the Zionist-Military-Industrial complex goes on to rebuild the Third Temple so as to usher in the prayer house of all nations?
i'm aware of that as well as current presumable talks with a false messiah

>It seems to me that you truly lack awarness all sorts of modern subversive current and the Islam of Osama Bin Laden, or the extremists like ISIS, is probably 'good' in your books as long as they adhere to Sharia and other commandments?
they are not good but satanic

>Can you even distinguish what is genuine Judaism from that what is disguised as such in the modern world?
as i said there's no authentic judaism nowadays

>I personally think you are not able to because you have misunderstood both Guénon and Evola.
evola is garbage. you can't side with both since in guenonian perspective evola is also anti-traditional and satanic

>>15716749
What in your mind separates Traditionalist-perrenialism such as that of Guenon or Coomaraswamy from Theosophy?

>>15716832
Theosophy is a pseudo-mystification and pseudo-religion. Madame Blavatsky, as is apparent from her works, went on to write books that are full of inaccuracies and high fantasy. Book of Dzyan for example. The lists are numerous.

Guénon never actually inserted anything of his own to the doctrines he was writing about.

No, but Golovin(his mentor) does. Too bad he is not popular and not translated

>>15716847
Why did you then accuse posters here of being crypto-thoeophists? Nobody here was repeating the inaccuracies in her writings

>>15716648
If you've read Guenon then why do you get upset about people talking about eastern doctrines? His books are stuffed full of references to them. And why do you make all these references to Islam and Jihadis if your issue in this thread is people talking about Hinduism? You seem incoherent

>>15690331
thanks for uploading this

What do you think of Sikhism?

>>15694433
>Teitelbaum

That's literally a Orthodox Zionist family from Eastern Europe that helped found one of the largest sects of Third Temple Judaism that wants to restore Israel to a middle eastern empire. Kinda sketchy, if you ask me. That being said, Alfred Tarski was actually Alfred Teitelbaum, but he was actually a based jew.

>>15719006
>Teitelbaum
Homie what. The teitelbaum family are Satmar which is one of the largest anti-zionist sects in Orthodoxy.

>>15719006
bannon loves Judeo-Christianity

>>15718735
The metaphysics seem to me to be very similar to some of the various schools of non-dual Hinduism. The Hindu saint Kabir had some of his poetry included in the Sikh holy scripture I believe.

>>15719811
Any idea why countries where Sikhism, Hinduism is the main religion of the people are total shitholes with 3rd world and Africa -tier hygienic standards?

>>15720739
The Kali juga happens faster in India

>>15715849
In that book, Julius Evola discusses the occult/esoteric circles of the 20th century and it's figures such as Anton LaVey, Aleister Crowley, Georges Gurdjieff, Giuliano Kremmerz etc, their claims to esoteric knowledge, their initiations and practices, and whether they are valid pathways toward metaphysical realization. The book was published in English by Arktos about 2 years ago, but a very small number of copies were printed which made buying copies online, even on the secondary market, impossible to find, and is why you have never heard of it and is also why an epub of it suddenly appearing on libgen is sort of a big deal.
>>15720739
The West embraced the Promethean/Luciferian ideal and created the sciences and technology, whereas the Dharmic peoples of India and the Toaist and Confucian peoples of China sought to preserve Dharma, and the balance of Heaven and Earth respectively. The East only implemented a technology if they thought it wouldn't upset the Dharma/Tao, while the West created tech because they could with colonialism being the obvious reason why those cultures became modernized. The Question Concerning Technology in China discusses this matter in depth as well as comparative metaphysics of East and West with snippets of Martin Hiedegger, Gilbert Simondon, and Bernard Stiegler thrown in.

>>15720739
India was invaded many times during it's history and people there were enslaved and culturally disrupted. "Hinduism" disappeared from India many times, and then it rose again. It's so complicated, we can't even assume that the ancient Brahmanism could be related as the same tradition of what exists under the name Hinduism in our days. Sikhism is a mix of Islam and Hinduism, from the tradition initiated by Guru Nanak in XV century.

Should we build "Traditionalist online library" similar to what /x/ has of their own occult libraries on Mega (huge collection of thousands of books)

I personally do not know is hosting such libraries legal. At least Guénon's stuff is widely available on Internet on pdfs, but it would be nice to have them all in same place.

I could also provide some rare works etc, but would someone have some sort of drive to update such library from scratch?

>>15690331
Thanks OP, this is a good resource

This thread, unfortunately, was taken over by an absolute faggot who flipped out when someone asked for clarification on the distinction between Vaishnavism and Shaivism, a perfectly valid question since Hinduism is a Traditional metaphysics. Then someone asked about how some authors are connected and the faggot again blew his lid, characterizing the questioner as just AI, without any other context or prior information.

Honestly this person is absolutely not a Traditionalist of any worth, with this sort of incapability of self control. Traditional doctrines do not encourage this.

I would recommend refusing to engage with this poster, he's just here for yous.

>>15721138
Perfectly valid discussion was raised in these posts and he was right: none of you can apply traditional metaphysics and knowledge to the current times and what is currently happening in Western World.

You live a sheltered life, disconnected from reality. You have found in these religious texts another escapist adventure that is more "acceptable" to your psyche that is on the threshold of youth/adulthood. You have bought into the "Bearded Eastern Wisdom Masters" -meme while ignoring writes like Julius Evola.

Instead of applying this knowledge to modern world (an attitude that was encouraged by Evola in his later works such as Ride the Tiger) one clings to fundamentalist exotericism of Islam and certain other eastern doctrines. He does not understand the extreme solidification and dissolution and clings to these doctrines never reaching any sort of transendence for the solidification itself achieves a point where these doctrines are like bringing a wooden club in a fight against firearms and modern warfare.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/24/world/middleeast/mosque-attack-egypt.html

This happened near to the Sufi prayer houses where Guénon used to visit. Probably he visited this one too. Of course this being one disconnected happening, but the point is intact: there will be no salvation for them who have made them steadfast against the universe in destruction (the most dissolutive aspects of Kali-Yuga) by clinging to Abrahamic, or any traditional doctrines, for that matter and trying to find salvation in them through such dry exotericism and practice.

In 50 years I believe this is even more relevant than now. Time consumes All and the Solidifcation cannot be stopped.

>>15721209
Please stop posting, thanks!

>>15720890
>The West embraced the Promethean/Luciferian ideal and created the sciences and technology, whereas the Dharmic peoples of India and the Toaist and Confucian peoples of China sought to preserve Dharma, and the balance of Heaven and Earth respectively. The East only implemented a technology if they thought it wouldn't upset the Dharma/Tao, while the West created tech because they could with colonialism being the obvious reason why those cultures became modernized. The Question Concerning Technology in China discusses this matter in depth as well as comparative metaphysics of East and West with snippets of Martin Hiedegger, Gilbert Simondon, and Bernard Stiegler thrown in.

Extreme simplification and you seem to lack the historical and wide enough perspective to understand the difference between Eastern and Western thought.

For example the Hermeticist Dr. John Dee of Queen Elizabeth's court was one of the main influencers of Elizabeth as a political advisor and it was he who advocated turning England's imperial expansion into a "British Empire"

But this is the natural continuum of European hermetic tradition and when you contrast them to Eastern Yogic practices and meditative exercises.

The eastern of magic, hermeticism and meditation being rooted in a reverbatory fashion, so that their "communing with God", is but a "communing with Self", and all their
artifice directed to development of the powers in their own bodies and minds, as opposed to the
Western idea of extending those powers to bear sway over others. This is the fundamental difference for example how Saddhus may operate as opposed to someone like Dee who was a Ceremonial Magician.

However, God Himself is not found to interfere arbitrarily with the course of Nature, but to
work within His laws, but to put Mysticism on a pedestal in contrast to the Western modes of transcendence would be a grave error indeed for a caucasian.

>>15721062
>I personally do not know is hosting such libraries legal.
Definitely not, but who cares? It's not like any of us will report it, and worst case scenario they they will just delete it and you can upload the library somewhere else or make a new account. Mega, google drive, or a torrent are all good options.
>I could also provide some rare works etc
Such contributions are greatly appreciated.

we should make a collection of audiobooks on traditionlist books and essays.

this is what i got so far, for evola

religiosity of tyrol
https://youtu.be/04BhbQKcBLc

american civilization --- there used to be one read by an actual person, but i cant find it. does anyone have it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ILZMS_O-CY

mystery of the grail

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLOE7zx0HRk

does anyone have any for guenon (pbuh)?

>>15721990
>audiobooks

Can you imagine how bourgeois Evola would consider such abominations?

>>15722026
>Can you imagine how bourgeois Evola would consider such abominations?
if he saw how bad things have become, i dont think audiobooks would be at the top of his concerns...

>>15722033
*i will make note though that audiobooks should only be there for a FIRST read, or as a re-read, after you read it in print or pdf. you should not just engage with a book only through audiobooks, especially with traditionalist authors, as you will inevitably miss important concepts.

>>15722094
Oral traditions are more archaic and traditional than written though, no?
Imagine you're paying a slave to read it to you.

>>15690266
>Henry Corbin
Based.

>>15722107
i've never though about it this way. based as fuck.

>>15721990
for guenon - crisis of the modern world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7fv5MeGREk

the guy is also currently recording ride the tiger by evola.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA34OL6NQPs

>>15690266
Daily reminder that the concepts of atheism and materialism were around as early as the 5th century BCE in the form of the Atomist School of ancient Greece read Leucippus, Democritus and Epicurus. This predates Socrates and is thus the most traditional. EMBRACE TRADITION LADS

>>15722401
You missed the point on what they mean by Tradition.

>>15721209
>You live a sheltered life, disconnected from reality.
Why would you assume that? These threads in my experience actually have a higher percentage of people from the 3rd world and from Asian/Muslim countries. Nor do poor white people in western countries abandoned by their governments have sheltered lives either.

>You have found in these religious texts another escapist adventure that is more "acceptable" to your psyche that is on the threshold of youth/adulthood.
Is that what your experience was reading them? If so that's truly sad. There is so much wisdom to be found in them and spiritual lessons which are directly applicable to one's own life. In bemoaning them as escapist you sound exactly like the protestants that Guenon castigates for elevating work and matter above all else.

>You have bought into the "Bearded Eastern Wisdom Masters" -meme while ignoring writes like Julius Evola.
I find Evola to be uninteresting because whenever I read his writing on metaphysics I find it to be plagued with basic errors which he should have known not to write if he had actually read the texts and schools in question that he was commenting on, he strikes me as a dilettante.

>, but the point is intact: there will be no salvation for them who have made them steadfast against the universe in destruction
All you have to do is not be a Sufi Muslim in a country with a huge extremist problem. This phenomena is not a problem in India, there are countless Hindus and Sufi Muslims there who are still able to study and practice traditional doctrines without any issues

>>15722670
>All you have to do is not be a Sufi Muslim in a country with a huge extremist problem. This phenomena is not a problem in India, there are countless Hindus and Sufi Muslims there who are still able to study and practice traditional doctrines without any issues

Who the fuck would want to live in India though? One of my friends got some sort of worm infestation that could not be cured with tablets after he came back from there. His stomach full of some worms they had to surgically remove the eggs from his colon + stomach and he had mostly bought stuff from supermarket and bottled water, still got extreme parasite infestation

>>15723281
Anecdotal evidence is not really an argument, but in any case these kinds of crass and boorish appeals to material comforts over the intellectual and spiritual is exactly the kind of modern attitude that Guenon decried and is exactly the kind of behavior that the Hindu scriptures say is a trait of the Kali Yuga

>>15723281
shh theres no worms it's all maya. what a hylic

>>15723364
>tfw Guenon could have lived enough few decades but rejected modern medicine

>>15723366
this but unironically

>>15723366
Based

How do you pronounce Guenon's name?
is it Jew-non or Gay-non?

>>15724045
Gwe-nah

>>15724045
Geh-noh
>>15724050
false

>>15724045
Some of his more devotional biographical writers like Jean-Marc Allemand refer to him as "Servant of the One" (pbuh)

Wish I was not joking. It's a cult

>>15724458
based...

Anyone actually read the Bhagavad Gita? Any other sanskrit texts like it? Maybe someone here who read the whole Mahabharata (doubt it) but with our focus on the Gita, do you think the text can be somehow applied in a traditional context in the West?

Sri Dharma Pravartaka Acharya wants to make Sanskrit into the world language. Is he based or what? And what's he up to now, been at least 3 years since i chatted with anyone about this stuff.

>>15724555
>Anyone actually read the Bhagavad Gita? Any other sanskrit texts like it?
Yes I have. There are several texts like it, the Anu Gita is also located in the Mahabharata and is a kind of postscript to the Bhagavad-Gita. The Ishvara Gita is like an expanded Shaivite version of the Bhagavad-Gita. And there are also the Ashtavakra Gita, Avadhuta Gita and the Ribhu Gita which are all Advaitic texts
>do you think the text can be somehow applied in a traditional context in the West?
Yes, it offers a lot of useful spiritual lessons IMO such as how to remain tranquil in the face of problems etc

I have never followed Acharya closely but he seems like a really nice guy

>>15724458
wow... somebody call based department..!!!

>>15698698
I read the essay. It does feel like we're living in a never ending carnival, which gives some validity to the "clown world" meme. I also looked up this Mircea A. Tamas guy who was cited a lot, yet I can't find any credentials on him. He has a couple books that look interesting. The Everlasting Sacred Kernel that was cited in the essay turns out to be about traditional symbolism in modern literature, and Money: The Evil Eye which is based on "The Degeneration of Coinage", a topic that also deserves more discussion.

>>15724997
"Clown world" is the name pertaining to the current cycle which is now happening. It is a smaller cycle inside of the greater cycle, remember this is a thing. Smaller cycles in greater cycles inside even greater ones.
So Clown World is for our particular period the events that are now happening and going to happen, because of the necessity of the Kali Yuga reaching its consummation. Remember the quote that things will seem "rather contrary" near the end of the Kali age. And remember also the logical law that all the apparent disorder in a given system must necessarily contribute to the final order.

alright trad/lit/, I just ordered some Martin Lings and Frithjof Schuon books. I'm gonna get in the Sufi game for a year and go full towelhead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9koTqro1NFg

>>15724997
Excuse me for doubleposting. The degeneration of coinage is a term referring to the event which is now unfolding. This event has not reached its final endpoint yet. We see how currency is reduced to number. Paralleling the regression of the castes symbolized by gold, silver, bronze and then iron we see the so called degeneration of coinage from initially being made of literal gold coins, then to gold and silver coins and coins with different alloys, to then finally being merely the cheapest form of metal available (which is of course logically going to be iron) and then finally coins are not even corporeal objects but merely numbers in computer systems.

The process reflects the spiritual path that society has already traced. If you've read Daniel in the bible you will recall the statue with different bodyparts composed of different substances, it is obviously referring to the same process. Remember that the statues feet are mixed clay and shards of pottery. Clay is earth, the symbolism is obvious

I wanted to share this. J. E. Cirlot A Dictionary of Symbols. I found this with a google search because i had a dream and the dream reminded me of when Evola mentioned a myth of a white knight fighting with a black knight. In my dream was a white bull struggling with a black bull, obvious similarity.

I thought the part about the tree was interesting.

>>15724447
>false
My apologies. I do not know much French at all. Thank you for the correction.

>>15690266
>- Rene Guenon
>- Martin Lings
>- Seyyed Hossein Nasr
>- Frithjof Schuon
>- Ananda K. Coomaraswamy
>- Julius Evola
>- Titus Burckhardt
>- Philip Sherrard
>- Wolfgang Smith
>- Jean Borella
>- Marco Pallis etc
>Also thinkers indirectly affiliated, influenced by, or similar to Traditionalism:
>- Henry Corbin
>- William Chittick
>- Mircea Eliade
>- Arthur Avalon
>- Alain Danielou
>- Seraphim Rose
>- David Bentley Hart
>- Algis Uzdavinys etc
rank you top three trad/lit/
no guenon

>>15690266
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2GVqTYyyqc&t=3532s

>>15721990
>>15722357
east and west - guenon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwSA814jIR0

>>15725971
>- Frithjof Schuon
>- Ananda K. Coomaraswamy
>- Julius Evola

>>15725971
1. Evola
2. Corbin (who is highly underrated)
3. maybe Rose

Thoughts on Lord Northbourne? He was an Olympic athlete and English nobility, but decided to dedicate his life to combing Traditionalism and ecology.

>>15725063
Find a teacher, dont do it on your own a friend of mine ended up really messed by book reading while another, who had no interest in spirituality at first, turned out fine

>>15727744
what do you mean by he turned out messed up?

>>15727753
Bascially he decided that since everything was made of God, reality was real( True btw) but he began to act it out, so walking around naked, walking in front cars, sujood for six hours straight, Dkhir for days and so forth. It was all rather sad as he had good future ahead of him.

my surguestion is just to walk into mosque( sufi or shia) and then the imam that you want to study kalam and the mysteries of the urifah, they will point you in the right direction.

>>15727744
I don't exactly live in Sufiville, USA
I think i'll have to make some sort of trip to North Africa or something once I get to a level where I should get initiated

>>15690266
I have two questions.

firstly is it possible to start a "new" tradition via proper understanding the metaphysical?

Secondly is the Baal shem Tov and example of a "new" tradition starting via a layman gaining metaphysical insights?

>take the attached as symbolic of gaining the knowledge of heaven by immediate means.

>>15727788
>It was all rather sad as he had good future ahead of him.
that is unfortunate. thank you for telling his story, nonetheless.

>>15727803
>firstly is it possible to start a "new" tradition via proper understanding the metaphysical?
I would like to know an answer to this also. My guess would be "technically" yes, but there would probably be a lot of nuanced things you will miss out on, causing your "new tradition" to fail.

Evola would criticize Jung, as he said that Jung oversimplified the myths by trying to reduce them to mere archetypes.

>>15727798
I live in the Canadian boonies, four hours from Toronto, near Whitchurch-Stouffville they are two mosque and three authentic Muslim ulemah with chains of initiation( saylisah) going back to the old boy moe. if they can be here in nothingfuckinghappensstan, I am sure you can find some. alterntivly just look for a sufi/shia mosque on google maps and shoot an email to the imam with your needs. That's what we did and they more than happy to take on two lilly white Anglicans for a year of study under a sheikh

>>15727834
yeah it's looking like a 4 hour drive for myself as well. I live in straight up Amish country lol.
Thanks for the advice though, I saved it.

>>15727803
Proper Traditions in the Traditionalist sense don't have a worldly origin. The first practitioners were initiated by some divine source. People who come up with random new traditions like the neo-gnostics and such are counter traditional and their counter initiations are damaging to the spirit. Guenon himself said that he could not be a viable spiritual teacher anymore because he had been initiated into dozens of junk movements in his youth and stained his soul.

>>15727847
no prob, just try to have fun, dont get frustrated if you dont get everything immediately and dot quite if they give you what seems like unless task and dont get mad at the stupidity and bigotry of the cradle Muslims proto initiates.

we were told it takes about 10 years for some one to be initiated in even the most basic levels so have patience ( have sabr)

>>15725971
Corbin
Evola
Eliade

>>15727850
what I mean, is that if someone say contemplated the universe enough to form an impression of the meta principals, that are usually expressed symbolically, could they be enlightened by the divine and start a new chain of tradition.

like how Mohammed use to sit in a cave contemplating the universe for weeks on end and over the course of many years until he was suddenly greeted by Gabe and started the current Islamic tradition. Or like how Jesus went out in the desert for 40 days and came back and found the traditions of Christianity. or how Moses and his shepherding eventually led to the burning bush and the Jewish tradition. As far as i know none of these men had teachers but they were able to access the metaphysical principles and convey these in symbolic form to their disciples and found new lines of authentic tradition.

Is this still possible in the modern age, could some African sheep herd( or a housebond ortaku NEET if its easier to relate) by contemplation, to escape the drudgery of his work, discover the meta principles and start his own real tradition.

>>15709308
Kys

>>15727917
Maybe. I don't know well things like the Baháʼí, Meher Baba, etc. are perceived among people into Traditionalism.

Is it possible to be a /trad/ without bring a Muslim? What are other ways?

>>15728105
Being

>>15728105
read guenon

>>15728119
B A S E D
A
S
E
D

>>15728133
I'm only at Introduction to thr Study of the Hindu Doctrines.

>>15727869
>>15727847

Some postives I'll like to share.

One time we prayed 1000 rakat and did 1000 subhanaallahs,( it was on a special night were the rurh allah, the holy ghost, is suppose to come down to earth) it was the closes thing to torture i have ever been exprinced but when we finished we noticed wried sounds comming from the bunks of one of our mates, an arab his parents were forcing him to be there, who did join us turns out he was wacthing hentai at full blast throught the night in an attempt to get kicked out and we were so focused on our prayer that we didnt notice.

Another time we had this black kid, he was former air force or something( he had finished BMQ at least) he had to quite because he got really nervous and when he did his face swelled up and he got covered in hives, espically when he talked to women.( his family was catholic) anyway this happened a few times while we were at the dorms, then one day as we were praying behind the shayke he collapsed and wouldn't stir, so we took him back to dorm and put him in bed. he woke up the next day and never had another attack he could even talk to women and be fine it was a genuine miraculous event.

another time the shayke was teaching his kids the koran but he would do so by reciting the words and then have them play instruments( drums etc) to the words, the shayke left and the kids began to play and recite and we all joined them and said maybe 7 full surahs, it was epic.

once we where at the masjid when like three guys in military uniform came in, i was about to bluescreen of death, but instead of arestung us they picked up instruments and began to chant the bismilar with us for over an hour. turns out they were deployed to the sandbox and there became interested in sufiism.

we alos had some standout guys like this one Indonesian who was turning 40, he was getting married soon and was always super excited about putting the pee pea in the vajayjay for the first time but other than than he was a stand up fellow. He got up every night before everyone and made a full breakfast for us and dinner.

the black guy sometime use to struggle with the lessons and we felt very sorry for him but sometimes he use to go out at night and hang in the graveyard for hours and especially when their was a snowstorm, we would miss him for half a day or more, sometimes he wouldn't even take his jacket, but when he came back he could explain the lessons in such a clear knowledgeable way we actually thought he was chatting with jinn or some shit.

>>15728220
its good that you are reading him. just keep at it.

>>15728220
here's the quick rundown. He says Hinduism is more /trad/ but sufism is more compatible with Western Man. In his earlier work he makes the case for /trad/cath with some Freemasonry sprinkled in. Explore them all buddy

>>15728105
it use to be but since the church got cucked, first by Luther (who had many good points about the worldly corruption of the church but severed the protestant churches from tradition) and then by V2. their really isnt unless the pope does a 180 or God sends a new prophet.

>>15728245
>V2
how did such a tragedy ever occur? like holy fuck.

>>15690266
Any source books on Hermeticism and introductions to alchemy?

>>15728281
The Hermetic Tradition - Evola

>>15728257
honestly it was a necessity. we need to let christianity die off so something superior can replace it.

>>15728310
what should we do in the meantime then? ive been practicing the qliphoth, which has been keeping me from going completely insane, but it doesn't feel like a "right fit."

>>15728257
it came from a good place but with fundamentally flawed princpel.

They wanted to reform the church to appeal to the modern masses and to get the people truly engaged in God and his worship.

The principle idea being that sainthood was open to all and that once people say the road clear ahead of them unobscured by a dead language and opaque, irrational traditions and an unapproachable semi-divine clergy, they would flock to God like moths at a flame. unfortunately people dont work like that and only a select few are actually worthy of becoming priest.

>>15728316
explore different stuff, don't stick to one thing. eventually a new Western tradition will come into existence.

>>15728323

A follow up which explains why V2 failed http://berlin.wolf.ox.ac.uk/lists/nachlass/maistre.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juMl4TQzA34&t=2s

"Reason means argument, reason means a construction on
the part of rational beings of a kind that other rational beings are
able to criticise using exactly the same weapons: what man makes,
man can mar. If you want a stable foundation for society then the
most shaky foundation upon which you can place is that of unaided
human reason, because even though you may prove that one kind
of institution is good or even the best, another man cleverer than
you will disprove it tomorrow. Anything which argument puts up,
argument will pull down, and therefore nothing is less stable than
things which rely upon such so precarious a foundation as reason,
because one reason is constantly toppled by another. The only
foundation which is ultimately stable is something which cannot be
reached by destructive forces. Reasoning, analysis, pulverises. This
is an old Burkean argument, and something which Hamann would
have agreed to. Reason analyses, it takes to pieces; anything which
is taken to pieces ceases to be mysterious, becomes clear, and as a result of becoming clear sometimes falls into familiarity and thus
contempt. Therefore the only way in which you can secure a solid
basis for government, which nobody would ever be able to shake, is
by making it impervious to reason. How is this done? By founding
societies upon foundations so dark, so mysterious and so terrifying
that anyone who dares approach them will find himself immediately
subject to the most hideous and enormous penalties. The only
societies which have lasted are societies created by priests, in which
the people have been taught a series of frightening myths whereby
any questioning of the foundation of society was itself regarded as
sinful and liable to bring about punishment. The only laws which
have lasted amongst mankind are laws whose roots and sources are
not remembered. Laws whose roots and sources are remembered
are usually bad laws or at least laws which somebody wants to
change. Custom is the foundation of our life – custom and the dark
irrational sphere which nothing must be allowed to approach.Therefore authority must be blind. Once you allow people to argue
about the basis of authority, once you allow people like Locke to discuss things like contract, or things like the justification of this or
that form of government, you are done for. The only governmentswhich have persisted, and been solid, are governments which do not
permit discussion. Those are the governments which are on the
whole the most stable

>>15728325
yeah, i am going to have to. i had a dream once, after doing an initiation ritual, where i was in a house, and lilith appeared to me. she ended up showing me the door, lmao.

>>15728281
Burckhardt - Alchemy: Science of the Cosmos, Science of the Soul
Eliade - The Forge and the Crucible

>>15728310
>let christianity die off so something superior can replace it.
Its being replaced and not by something superior. Just look at the flagellating onions boys and coal burners. Whatever it takes for something superior to come along doesn't exist today and won't for the foreseeable future.

>>15728411
the basedfags and the coal burners will not be part of the new tradition. those who overcome that shit will establish the new tradition

>>15728411
>>15728432
>coalburners
90% of the time, its only fat girls and 50 something year old cougars that coalburn.

>>15690266
A Question.

My great,great,great grandfather, born 1900, was apparently in occult things, especially hinduism he later cheated on my great...grandmother with an indian, and he built a house on the family estate which apparently was built upon metaphysical architecture foundations. Now I was told when we went to the UK for vacation by the renters on the estate, one of whom saw this as a girl, that he could levitate and would often do so in front of people. Likewise my grandmother, before she died tried to teach me some thing( like how to predict the future via eggshells) but I was too stubborn and she has passed on.

1) what possible tradition could he have tapped into in order to levitate. ( I suspect vudoo since our family had large plantations in the Caribbean and some African blood at some point in the family tree)

2) Is their someway to revive my families tradition of whatever this is or is the chain broken?

>>15728461
>what possible tradition could he have tapped into in order to levitate
schizophrenia

>>15728486
Thanks for the repile, i dont think this was the case how ever as multiple sources confrimed it.

1) the old woman that i mentioned who saw it as a girl

2) local tradition in the town/villiage(?) which stated that our family were a bunch of witches and that the old man was the worse of the lot.

2) my family's own stories about him mention this.

>>15728461
I imagine some local folk thing that doesn't have a real name

>>15720890
>>15712540
I got 'The Mask...' when I donated to Arktos' kickstarter to get the 4 recent Evola works printed. Was not aware that it was in high demand.

>>15690266
Did have any thoughts

1) On the traditions of the Roma people.

2) Orthodox church

3) Hesychasm & the Jesus prayer.

4) The rosary & symbolism of the blessed virgin Mary.

5) folk magic

6) shinto and emperor worship

>>15725076
>>15725048
>>15724997
Good posts with a lot of effort put into thought. These kind of discussion is needed in these threads.

>This event has not reached its final endpoint yet. We see how currency is reduced to number.

Yes, exactly. Perhaps even the FIAT money that is now being less and less used will be removed totally soon.

At least here in Europe, warnings have been issued because of Corona to avoid all physical cash.

The Americans are already pulling down the statues of George Washington (even though America itself, was probably never found on a genuine tradition, but rather, it's beginnings were a Masonic experiment of New World from the beginning)

Perhaps the FED will not bother to remove such famous figures from their bills in support of BLM and other 'tear down' tactics, but we go straight to electric ones and zeros on a blockchain.

Now, one could already argue that most of our cash is electronic and this is just a small transition. It might be so, but World Economic Forum, among others, have also estimated that as much as 20% or more of all money in the world will be stored on a blockchain by 2030s.

I personally do not like to equate 'Mark of the Beast' and such similar notions from the Revelation as physical things, but it sure is interesting that anyone that has basic knowledge of Blockchain knows how the interaction with such system happens: you have your own private key that is unique and you interact with a wider blockchain that is global or public.

Revelation 13:17
>so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark

By 2050s I believe that physical cash is practically removed from circulation in the Western World.

>>15725076
>The process reflects the spiritual path that society has already traced. If you've read Daniel in the bible you will recall the statue with different bodyparts composed of different substances, it is obviously referring to the same process. Remember that the statues feet are mixed clay and shards of pottery. Clay is earth, the symbolism is obvious

Ever thought that this might be a reference to our electronic Silicon Society? It is a major component in the building materials that make up your home, it’s the basis of all current computer processors etc.

One could also argue that is has a clayish appearance.

>>15724997
>The Everlasting Sacred Kernel that was cited in the essay turns out to be about traditional symbolism in modern literature, and Money

Well, in the context of the essay of the "Sinister Carnival", Guénon also writes about this Sacred Kernel

http://www.studiesincomparativereligion.com/Public/articles/The_Heart_and_the_World_Egg-by_Rene_Guenon.aspx

Other traditionalist writers also touch this subject.

It is related to the "World Egg" myth of different mythologies in certain sense.

In terms of spiritual centers, these harmful influences entering in could be regarded as damage or holes in the protective shell that protects the egg.

In my opinion, like the more modern traditional writes like Upton have noticed that the "UFO" -phenomenon is closely related to the 'New Age' doctrines these infernal agents seem to appear under the guise of "Galactic Brotherhood" and "Messengers of Peace from Outer Space"

On a macrocosmic level, this might make sense if we regard the Earth itself as a Cosmic Egg of sorts with a fiery kernel etc. and these harmful influences of Gog and Magog might be "stellar" influences trying to enter earth.

But if, like Upton observes, these are merely infernal and elemental denizens of Hades masquerading as "Cosmic influences", one should see that this protective shell itself perhaps protects us from the fiery, volcanic activity of Earth itself and the crust we speak of is merely the crust over Earth itself where the Titans and others were confined.

There is lots of speculation how even modern mining industry contributes to the modern descent through their agents they can find in the crust, Uranium comes to mind in more modern times and at least Jean-Marc Allemand noticed certain counter-initiatic person connected with such minerals and metals.

Guénon also writes in Reign of Quantity:
>6. As concerns the relationship to the ‘subterranean fire’, the obvious resemblance of the name of Vulcan to that of the Biblical name Tubalcain is particularly significant: moreover they are both said to have been smiths; and while on the subject of smiths it may be added that the association of their craft with the ‘infernal regions’ sufficiently explains what was said above about its ‘sinister’ aspect. The
Kabires, on the other hand, while they too were smiths, had a dual aspect both celestial and terrestrial, bringing them into relationship both with the metals and the corresponding planets.

Be the case it may, the aim of counter-initiation is to produce tears in this protective shell so that some unknown and alien forces may enter in.

ttt

>>15729046
It has also been my speculation that the forces of Gog and Magog (and the Koka and Vikoka of Vishnu Purana) might be a reference to these Subterranean, harmful influences, but also, some harmful, Stellar influences that enter the earth.

Because Earth itself is protected, on a macrocosmic level, through atmosphere (from above) and from below. We live in a hostile environment on a macrocosmic level from both sides.

bumo

>>15728224
Did you do a thousand rakats in one night? As in 1000 individually or 1000 as a collective? I’ve done 100 rakats on 27th night of Ramadan and that was challenging. I could maybe do 200 or 300. But a thousand is crazy

After reading this thread it is clear that there’s is some autistic manchild that is an Evola fanboy (although there is a degree of redundancy to that description) that is flinging some pseudo spiritualist excrement in an effort to politicise metaphysical inquiry. Modernity obfuscates metaphysical truths, attempting to derive material applications in the form of some confused eschatological ramblings is missing the point. This nonce clearly hasn’t read Guenon, who categorically discouraged such distractions.

I would advise the OP to not engage with this autist in the future, otherwise this has been a good thread.

>>15732087
You cannot even write Guénon properly (you write it as a Guenon that means female ape in french)

Why should anyone listen your "ratings" on this thread? Are you some sort of backwoods muslim? There are Islamist and Jihadist forums on the internet that might suite you better

How can anyone be so bitter against Evola? Muhammad was a pedophile, even Guénon agreed with this

What an embarrassing cope.
Autistic pedantry over generally understood terms, check.
Massive assumptions and extrapolation from minimal data with extreme conclusions, check.
Instant distress at his secular prophet and pseudo religion being attacked, check.

Your projection is hilarious since you are for all intents and purposes a crypto-Wahhabist (as well as being autistic).
Never reply to me again you midwit, I will not even besmirch my aristocratic soul by giving you a (You).

>>15732270
Who are you even talking to? Are you some sort of imbecile Arab?

Do you even know how to use 4chan reply function?

You are a disgrace to your culture, this board and everybody who participated in this thread.

>>15732021

The imam did it in grouping of four, followed by 2 or 3 mins of Dkir then sujood then back in the forms of salah, until we were all finished.

yes we were in jummah, they were about 300 folks in the masjid, it was one in Toronto.

As i said it was tough but interesting and totally rewarding experience

Instantaneous and sweaty reply, check.
Complete lack of reading comprehension, check.

You’re obviously a closet mudslime, in your obsession with them their dialectic has clearly rubbed off on you.
Post hand, you shitskin midwit.

>>15732281
My legs were shaking terribly afterwards and i had trouble walking for a bit and my taqbah on which my forehead rested was a floating in my sweat and my clothes were almost soaked through but man would I do it again.

>>15732281
>>15732319
Amazing effort brother, how long did the 1000 rakats take you?

>>15732328
>>15732328
>>15728224


Sorry guys, i am mixing up two different events in my memory.


The first one was with Ali and his attempts to get kicked out, that was myself, Hassan,Little Hassan, and us three m8s.

The second one was in jummah in a mosque in Toronto that sort of looked like an orthodox church, this one was in a grand jummah with more than 300 people, they also had a scale model of the kaba and the shrine of imam hussien and i kid you not people were preforming tawrf around the models.

In the first case it took us six or so hours

the second case in masjid jummah took us the whole night.

sorry for the confusion guys, my bad.

>>15732403

Was the first event at a Shi’ite mosque? Having a scale model of the Kaaba is hilariously dubious, considering in Sunni orthodoxy that would be considered as bi’dah would it not?
Which Sufi order do you subscribe to?
Thanks for the replies, very interesting stuff.

>>15732459
yes it was a shia masjid.

I was under the tutelage of a shia irfan scholar,
the urifa use to be a sufi taiqiya but over the last century they have become the metaphysical section of the shia clergy, while still retaing their unique tradition and initiation structure.

that being said they honestly dont give shit about sunni/shia our teacher made a note of pointing out all the sunni's in his salisha and how the greatest writers and traditions on immaiyyah in the urfa tradition were sunni and how the writers on the spiritual perfection of the first 3 caliphs, in the uriafa tradition, were shia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg_ZHq-Ycmo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW0Zq7Fgf2o\

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQX7LXtM1rM

>>15732459
I dont think it would be a bida, in the sense you mean.

they are two tupes of bida

bida hasnate- Good bidah, like prayer mats or beautifying the masjid, or the types of clothing scholars wear.

bad bidah( of which i cant recall the arabic) which is shit like takbee( self flagellation)

the main diffirence between the two follows some what the logic of newmanns theory of development.

In that a good Bidah amplifies the doctrine it relates to and makes peoples hearths more attacted to islam. Such as beautifying the masjid, because it is the house of God on earth and as such represents one man's seeking the divine( hence the miniret) and the beauty of the divine realm.

while a bad bida obscures the doctrine in question by replacing it with something human centrist or which goes against the divine principles it claims to represent.

Another thread wasted by circlejerk by Bearded Hustlers of Arabia™

Semitic religions were a mistake.

>>15732655
>autistic screeching
We’ll continue our discussion whether you like it or not, just like in every other /trad/ thread that’s even existed.
Why don’t you be a good boy and reply to that other poster who asked you to post your hand, since you do actually sound like a crazed mullah. I’m starting to think you’re one of us after all lol.

Terrible thread ruined by Islamists and potential to-be-Jihadists

There are probably people in this thread who will in 20 years blow themselves up in some bomb vest after getting tired of fighting the Greater Jihad and want to take part of the lesser mysteries

>>15716786
>you are satanic

>>15732087
>After reading this thread it is clear that there’s is some autistic manchild that is an Evola fanboy (although there is a degree of redundancy to that description) that is flinging some pseudo spiritualist excrement in an effort to politicise metaphysical inquiry
Who in the thread was doing this? I just did an F3 search for every mention of Evola and did not find this person.

>>15716786
>evola is satanic
sounds based

>>15732882
Shut up shitskin

>Start a discussion of concepts laid down by Guénon in his magnum opus "Reign of Quantity"


>NOO!!! LET US HAVE OUR ISLAM GENERAL!!! GO AWAY YOU SATANIST

These threads are beyond saving

>>15733405
based and true-pilled

>>15733405

Rent free

>>15732635

Specifically on the latter point, of negative bidah, I was wondering whether the Shi’ite deification of Sayyadina Ali wouldn’t fall into this class? As would shrine worship and a scale replica of the Kaaba lol.
Would these things not be non-traditional in the Islamic orthodox doctrine?

>>15734131

if you read
http://www.fatuma.net/text/Haqiqa_and_Sharia_in_Islam_by_Rene_Guenon.pdf

he mentions that baraka is passed down the lines of tradition.

in shia thought Mohammed was the source of tradition and he passed his tradition down to Ali( and Sayyida Fatimah) who passed it down to their decedents ending in imam madhi( who basically a reincarnation of Mohammed but not)

now just as karma is the reflection of drahmic equilibrium in the world, so is baraka the reflection of Allah's pleasure with a person( or said persons standing in the divine hierarchy) in this world and the possessors of barkah can influecne events on earth.

see for example how the bodies of shaheeds,who are relatively high up in the divine hierarchy have instances of failing to rot or how a specifically advanced sufi shayke can heal the sick, compare with the gifts of the apostles in Christianity or the Tasdikeen in judaism.

when vist a shrine or a grave of a person who was particularly blessed with barkah far from an abrogation or an obscuring of tauheed rather you are participating in one of the manifestations of Allah's tauheed al rubbibeyah( unicity of power/lordship)

this is particularly important for the masses who are unable to achieve a great understanding in theology that they have tangible way of experiencing Allah's power and majesty.

>>15721301
Interesting post

>>15725971
Burckhardt
Nasr
Uzdavinys

>>15735162
>moses
>black
Moses was a sapphire eyed Aryan, with rosen-blonde hair, tall stature, and features so beautifully formed, that they would put the greatest Renaissance sculptors to shame.

>>15727529
What are your thoughts on him anon?

>>15735280
>Nasr
Could you give me a quick run down on Nasr? I've only seen some clips of him from an interview. Does he mostly just focus on the Islamic point of view?

>>15690266
We've had a lot of Spengler threads lately....would it be fair to say that consumption is an inversion of the Western Faustian bargain?

>>15735285
Evola akhi? I presume.

I hardly expect you to be familiar with the basics of coptic history, or any history for that matter, but in the hope of educating the uneducable.

Moses THE black, Was former bandit who became a monk, became know for his piety and ability to work miracles and died defending his monastery and buying time for the other monks to escape.

>>15735360
>Moses THE black
Such a description stands true for him as well, although, his skin was black, not by birth, but by being scorched by the high desert sun. His skin was rendered as dark as Solomon's veil.

>>15735288
I'm reading "Of the Land and the Spirit", which is an anthology for his ideas. He inspired Wendell Berry if you care for him at all. Berry wrote the introduction for the book, actually.

>>15696244
I’m not a crypto-fascist, I’m a superfascist.

>>15735545
based

>>15735395
source?

>>15704014
>tfw you realize Guenon just wanted boipucci

>>15735570
Intellectual Intuition

>>15725048
>Remember the quote that things will seem "rather contrary" near the end of the Kali age. And remember also the logical law that all the apparent disorder in a given system must necessarily contribute to the final order.
A couple weeks ago, I was on a train coming home from a weekend getaway at my sister's house, and I overheard a conversation taking place between some black people, which naturally devolved into discussing politics, the riots, and Trump, but what really stuck out to me was their discussion on religion. One of them had a brother who listened to podcasts by black Israelites, and he interpreted the very first verse from the Book of Genesis, In the Beginning God said let there be Light, as black being the first natural and pure color where all the colors originate, and saying black people are gods. Clearly, these people have it all wrong since 1). God transcends Creation and exists outside of all notions of colors, 2). the void and blackness is non-Being, which is associated with Saturn, and 3). whiteness is the culmination of color, which is associated with Jupiter and Christ. Black Israelites are advocating Saturn worship and no not what they do and what evil they ally themselves with. As much I wanted to school them on subject, I thought better against it and kept silent.

>>15735504
Wasn't Northborne a disciple of Rudolph Steiner and based his farming techniques off if Steiner's? How did he transition to to Traditionalism?

Has anybody here ever read Burckhardt or A.K. Coomaraswamy, particularly their essays on sacred art? It's a topic that is never really discussed in these threads.

>>15728245
What about Orthodox Christianity? Seraphim Rose became one. But the autocephalous authority is a big mess.

>>15735804
>What about Orthodox Christianity?
Armenian Orthodox is the best.

>>15735804
Rene, pointed out that state churches are really only half religions or perhaps a third, as the focus falls not on theology or metaphysics, doctrine or dogma but on society and social order.


The orthodox church is the original state church and suffers greatly from that, as we can see with its most recent schism, as de Maistre pointed out the orthodox clergy has been for much of it history the preserve of the illiterate, under educated and debauched sons of the lower gentry as he noted the people had absolutely no respect for the church reserving that for the institution of serfdom( which he believed once abolished would lead to the destruction of Tasrdom)

Indeed we can say the Orthodox church slept the sleep of the.. comfortable until the revolution, it theology before hand nothing more than a unfaltering imitation of western Manual scholism bloomed into a new flower in the Parisian exile and a small and short revival began.

yet in the end the Orthodox church remains a state church, its spiritualism cloistered and often no more than mere mysticism, incapable of reaching greatness.

as for autocephalous authority it was originally designed to give the Roman emperor, in his capacity as the 13th apostle, power over the bishops by giving him final say on all matters of Dogma, without a universal Emperor we come to the current reality of political prelates feuding over the scrapes of eastern European spirituality.

>>15723364
Guenon himself refused to enter India and become an Acharya like he always wanted to (yes you dont need to be born a brahmin for it) but he chose the comfy life of uptown Cairo, which was quite well off in that time. He was a complete hypocrite in that respect.

>>15736112
he didn't believe that a person born and raised in western civilisation could actually convert to hinduism.

>>15736155
That's not true, he was friends with people who did (e.g. John Levy, the man who bought his house for him in Cairo), and he mentions in one of his letters to Evola that Evola could travel to India and be initiated in Shaivism if he wanted to.

There are multiple conversion/initiation procedures in Hinduism. In order to be invested with the sacred thread one must have a caste, but there are other initiations based on the Shaiva Agamas which don't require any caste status and which are offered to foreigners. Alain Daneilou was another European who was initiated into Hinduism.

Guenon never says in any of his books or letters that foreigners can't be initiated in Hinduism. This has been repeated so many times on /lit/ already that I'm starting to think most of the people who say it actually know it's not true already and are just lying because they want people to become interested in their preferred Christianity/Islam/Buddhism/whatever instead of Hinduism.

>>15736220
I admit i didn't know that, i heard this claim from a man whit a Phd in Philosophy and took it as gospel on his authority. If he was wrong i will gladly take the mea culpa but i would appreciate it of you put a pdf or at least screenshots of your proofs.

>new jannies finally delete geunonfag's spam threads
>realizes his failed meme campaign is over
>reverts back to trad generals and becomes tame
>wants to now have 'serious' discussions like the good old days
>anon comes in: 'guys we should probably apply these stuff to our Yuga and not endlessly wallow in orientialist talking points'
>NOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T MAKE US ABANDON OUR NEVER ENDING LARPISM
>guenonfag's samefag tactic: 'Yea what that guy said^ thanks OP I love you so much but this thread has been ruined by some pragmatic faglord please don't respond to him'
History repeats itself.

I made this pic long ago (I have the .psd file to prove it) when guenonfag descended into madness, all because 1 anon pointed out how Guenon was simply a bookworm Blavatsky. He's now reviving his hatred of Evolafags (which he disparaged back then as well) and anyone who steers away from orientalist discussion which is what these threads are really about.

Only a matter of time until Trad exodus 2.0 comes into fruition.

>>15728432
you do realize Guénon was a race mixer right?

>>15736220
wasn't Levy a muslim convert?

>>15736342
what the hell does Guenon have to do with the coming new Western tradition?
I suppose he will help people overcome christcuckery and a material worldview but not much more

>>15736417
>what the hell does Guenon have to do with the coming new Western tradition?
he is our Lord and Saviour (pbuh)

don't you know what thread you're posting in you dirty hylic?

>>15736439
I repent

>>15736339
OP here, I made the thread in the sincere hope of discussing the Sophia Perennis and the writings of scholars who had much insights on it, not just Guenon. All of of the "pbuh", "based", and "hylic" shitposting that came out of it is regrettable, but part of me thinks it's discord trannies trying to false flag and prevent legitimate discussion. In the next thread I will add a notice in the OP to filter those clowns, if I choose to make another thread.

>>15704797
>Religions occupy an intermediate position between the holistic ensemble of Tradition language and, in fact, a complete rejection of Tradition language (in favor of modern language). It may seem that religion is the Tradition. In fact, it is not. "Religion", specifically a Latin term. In Greek it does not exist, in Russian it appears relatively recently, when the puzzlement, okatolichivanie New Believers Church was in full swing. There are several speculations about the origin and literal meaning of this term. Most commonly, religion is "connection". It is assumed that there is some profane complex of the immanent world (there is already a certain step towards the language of modernity), but there is also a sacral, higher world. So, religion is what connects the sacral with the profane. One can say that it is a certain selective sacralism, while the language of Tradition (a full-fledged holistic ensemble), in principle, does not know what is "profane", what is "desacralized". In a full-fledged holistic Tradition everything is sacred: sound, gesture, object, body, feeling, thought. Moreover, it all makes up a single complex.
http://arcto.ru/article/113

>>15736768
Didn't Dugin join the Old Believers? Too bad not a lot of their material is translated.

>>15725258
i commend you

>>15736607
>part of me thinks it's discord trannies trying to false flag and prevent legitimate discussion
You have said this multiple times in the past whenever the guenonspamming gets brought up in a serious discussion (pic related) but the fact is that guenonfag himself in a few threads claimed to have orchestrated the spam job in order to get people to know and read Perennialist literature. It is highly unlikely that his detractors decided to to cash in on his initial insanity and post the same forced memes for 2 years so that Traditionalist discussion in this board would be forever tainted.

Now that jannies have actually curbed the spam threads, 'discord tranny' false flag allegations starts to resurface in order to deflect suspicion and wipe the slate clean (ironically it makes you even more suspicious this way).

What are the odds that reviving these threads first as rene guenon general then as guenon magazine general and now as /trad/ General with emphasis on Guenon's archived work in the OP (so much for 'not just Geunon') is the work of a single person who only now has traction when his antics have been repressed in the face of moderation?

>>15736342
>>15736417
Banging a qt arab girl is pretty based tbqhfam

>>15737275
Are racemixers who follow the example of Guenon, welcome in the new Tradition?

in the name of the /trad/ general i establish the fatwa that julius evola is counter-initiatic and anti-traditionelle. from now on it's completely forbidden to mention him or his works

this fatwa goes into effect after this message
_______________________________________

what's some good Anglo trad/lit/
I have a hart time resonating with towelhead shit

>>15737221
Yeah Guenonfag went in hard on this narrative during the last spam wave, talking about "who cares if it's immature, it got lots of people to know about Guenon" and so on. It was unmistakably him.

At least one of the times he did it, it was in reply to that one Guenon fan who was asking him to talk to him seriously. He started calling that guy an idiot/schizo for being so "serious." It struck me as cruel since that other guy was being quite sincere.

I don't really care if he has a traditionalism general thread but it's sad to know he's still acting this way if so.

>>15737317
not sure about Anglo lit, but I heard there's an italian man who had great ideas. Forgot his name though, I think it's Julian Evoglio?

>>15737350
Sicilians are honorary Anglo

>>15737350
much of his ideas resonate with the eternal anglo

>>15737349
was it pic related? I prepared this in case OP thought I was kidding about guenonfag admitting to spam.

>>15737221
It all started with /trad/ general threads a few years ago, and the first few threads actually had some fruitful discussion but around the third thread, it degenerated into shitposting about white nationalism. The guenonposting came a bit later. I basically copypasted the template from those threads because I want to have those fruitful discussions again. Whatever the case may be concerning guenonfag and his cohorts, they are certainly trying to prop Traditionalism up as a cult and derail any discussion on the matter like they are doing in this thread, which makes them agents of the counter-tradition. With that said, we shouldn't take the words in insights (though perceptive as they are) of the scholars mystics of the Traditionalist School as gospel, but rather serve as a guide to know the Divine Essence and understand our own traditions better while having our respective scriptures and the words and deeds of the prophets and saints be the final authority on the matter, lest we fall into a subtle trap by thinking Traditionalism as a religion.

It's really a shame we can rarely have a serious discussion on Evola and Guenon. People on here are so influenced by memes and what other anons tell them. If you try to start a legitimate conversation it turns into a shitshow because one anon goes on a meltdown about how one or the other sucks. You really need to get over yourselves

>>15736768
Jan Assmann introduces a useful binary of religion and counter-religion, religion being the pantheism that Rasputin is describing here that was replaced by a counter-religion of sacred/profane split. This traces to the monotheism of Akenaten but reached its full mnemohistorical expression in Abrahamic religions. It's pure semantics to argue religion did not exist because the word is Latin.

>>15720890
What were Evola's thought on Crowley? Considering Crowley is one of the occult writers I could say wasn't complete bullocks.

>>15737663
You lack the wide enough, historical perspective to understand what currents constitute counter-initiation and counter-religion.

When it comes to Rasputin:
>Legrand himself, probably a pseudonym of writer Pierre Mariel (who mainly wrote on esoteric subjects), is the main character and as such the book appears as a romanticised autobiography written as a pulp novel. It seems most of the German intelligence operations during the first world war had their homebase in Sweden, where Germany and the young bolsheviks worked together. Rasputin might have been an instrument of the revolution. In his autobiography, prince Yusupov, Rasputin's murderer, claims the latter had told him he was counseled by secretive persons, most of whom lived in Sweden and who called themselves 'The Green'.

http://maybelogic.blogspot.com/2011/01/seven-heads-of-green-dragon.html

It should be also noted:
>Saint Seraphim of Sarov and removes the halo above his head: showing behind it a message carved in silver, obviously by the hand of the Tsarina: "S.I.M.P. :.:. The green dragon. You were absolutely right." and below, carved by a man: "Too late". Nobody wonders what the strange double three points mean and thinks of a masonic symbol.But to Legrand who knows a lot on hermetic matters it's the seal of Salomon. And hence this message has to do with Martinism, a sect that played a major part in the French revolution, which was allegedly dissolved, but Legrand thinks their influence never really stopped before being refounded by Papus in 1890, at the same time as Sâr Péladan refounded the Rosy Cross. S.I.M.P. stands for 'Supérieur Inconnu, Maître Philippe', pointing at Nizier-Anthelme Philippe, a common butcher who joined the Martinist order and became a famous healer and magnetizer. Master (or Magus) Philippe, while considered an ordinary con man by some, others saw him as the reincarnation of Christ. He had been introduced to the imperial family when they had visited France and had had a prominent influence on Russia's destiny, before Grigori Raputin took over.

Guénon also studied under Papus and he joined this very Martinist order.

There is a good article on this subject in French:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/160757652/Sombre-Dragon-ou-les-bas-fonds-de-la-contre-initiation-a

Green/Dragon or the depths of the counter-initiation.

Most people lack the knowledge of early years of Guénon and European hermetic scene to make anything out of these considerations, they simply lack the historical perspective and do not understand the wider scene that Guénon was part of.

>>15737731
Essay on Crolwey by Julius Evola
http://www.gornahoor.net/library/EvolaOnCrowley.pdf

>If the Crowleyian view would seem troublesome and obscure to many, even objectively the “satanic” element, in spite of everything that the Great Beast 666 displayed almost theatrically, does not seem tous very relevant. The corresponding coloration does not have as much prominence as that which, fundamentally, possesses a magical, and in part initiatic, character.

>>15737754
Was Guenon part of the counter-initiation all along, which would make the whole Traditionalist project a farce, or was his reason for leaving was because he was so spooked by the Martinist order that he wrote exhaustively on the counter-tradition?

>>15737310
No. Just white guys banging middle eastern qts. You do have to marry them though, if you do bang one.

>>15737310
Also, tbqh, that girl is so fucking hideous that I feel as if that black guy cut himself short. He should have found some ebony qt instead.

>>15737757
I'm decently surprised. It wasn't a complete rejection of Crowley's philosophy.

>>15737805
So racemixers are allowed in the new tradition after all?

>>15737822
Is it really race mixing if a white guy (Caucasoid) beds a middle eastern girl (Caucasoid)?

>>15737828
Yes?

>>15737822
of course they are

Tradition has no color

>>15737842
>posts a middle eastern MAN

>>15737847
he's white isn't he?

>>15737855
anon, I had a qualifier on my statement. It is only okay if a white MAN weds a middle eastern WOMAN.

>>15737864
So racemixing is allowed then? why do you keep contradicting yourself?

>>15737801
The public does not realize that in all the conflicts within nations and in the conflicts between nations there are, besides the people apparently responsible for them, hidden agitators who with their plans make these conflicts unavoidable. Everything that happens in the confused evolution of peoples is secretly prepared in order to ensure the dominion of certain people: it is these people, known and unknown, that we must find behind every public event.

The fact that Guénon was part of that very same Martinist sect and is known by his biographers to have been closely associated with Papus would personally be a worrisome element, considering the close association of Secret Services and intelligence services with certain people that were ideologically connected to events that lead to the Russian Revolution.

Perhaps Guénon did sought escape in Egypt, this would at least partly explain his paranoia of 'magical attacks' and in his letter exchange to Evola accusing all sorts of health ailments resulting from black magical operations. Perhaps he certainly did betray some of his old masters so to speak.

>>15737902
You are not understanding the metaphysical principle at play in regards to white men bedding middle eastern women.

The Aryan man asserts the virile principle of Order over the dark skinned, chaotic waters of the Arab pussy. It is a symbolic ritual of Ra asserting the Solar Order over Nu.

>>15737924
>white men bedding middle eastern women.
you mean white men bedding white women? Why the redundant 'middle eastern' if they're both whi-

>dark skinned
ah so race mixing is fine then

>>15737948
That picture disgusts me

>>15737948
Skin color =/= race

Also, a dark man bedding a light woman would be symbolic of chaos triumphing over order.

>>15737951
why would it? It's just a caucasoid man marrying a caucasoid woman? Guenon would approve of it.

>>15737958
I am sick and disgusted this brown, negroid semen filling the pussy of white women

This is a sick, fucked up society the darkest Kali-Yuga

>>15737958
>Guenon would approve of it.
False.

>>15737954
>Also, a dark man bedding a light woman would be symbolic of chaos triumphing over order.
both produced brown offsprings, like Guenon's daughters

It is a non-dual consummation really

>>15737961
he's of the same stock as Guenon's wife

>>15737963
True actually

>>15737964
>like Guenon's daughters
Proper for being bleached.

>>15737975
He disobeyed the one drop rule, his line is forever tainted by dark, chaotic waters cursed forever with brown eyes and dark hair.

>>15737973
>>15737973
>he's of the same stock as Guenon's wife

this is not the same thing. the white colonialist masters breeeded the nigger slave women in their farms so as to produce even better slave quality with more intelligence+ good muscles of the slave stock

the racial segregation is as important to understand the Brahmic superiority of Divine Mandate of Heaven towards to the lower classes of Ksarithyas and Shudras

Brahmin's seed is like a meteor shower brining life to earth: it is still outside of the planet it brings to life, this is a semen blessing and sort of Fiat Lux = Let there be light

>>15737985
He's still a race mixer, brown biology is now in his lineage.

>>15737985
This guy knows what's up.

>>15737907
Thank you for your response. I do recall Guenon saying he felt his soul was too stained to be reunited with the Absolute due to his earlier occult practices in these secret societies. Where can I learn more about the Martinist Order and Papus. I can't read French.

Why are people bothered by Guenon's race mixing ways?

Tradition is more important than race, Guenon said so himself. Does no one read him in here?

nice traditional conversation you got here u orientalist larpers

>>15737995
>son fils Ahmed vient de naitre
OH NO NO NO WE GOT TOO COCKY MY FELLOW ARYANS

>>15737995
We panned him in favor of Evola. Evola is more fun to read.

>>15737994
>Where can I learn more about the Martinist Order and Papus. I can't read French.

The whole deal is perhaps best summarized in these articles in English (just search the keywords like Papus, Martinist order etc.) even though I do not fully agree with the writer in all points

https://ordoabchao.ca/volume-three/synarchy
https://ordoabchao.ca/volume-three/polaires-brotherhood
https://ordoabchao.ca/volume-three/shangrila
https://ordoabchao.ca/volume-four/priory-of-sion
https://ordoabchao.ca/volume-three/avantgarde
https://ordoabchao.ca/volume-three/vichy-regime

>>15737864
>pic related is a white women
cmon now, we both know she's a brown semitic marsh arab but that won't stop us from race mixing the shit out of her.

>>15738020
Middle eastern girls are the proper targets of bleaching. We must use them as a cure for yellow fever fags.

>>15738020
>Ameera
She does make me diamonds, too bad she's a stuck up westernized whore and a Sa*di bitch.

>>15738018
>polaires-brotherhood

You should also read a book called Arktos: The Polar Myth in Science, Symbolism, and Nazi Survival

There is a great deal of questionable material related to Guénon in this book. Especially his confusion regarding a certain Italian oracle.

>>15738027
Have to agree, brown girls are quite race mixing material, I'd also love for their brothers to wed my sisters so that we can strengthen our Traditional metaphysics.

>>15738018
Thank you, I will surely read through these. As expected, the trolls are out in full force shitting up the thread. I will not be making another for some time, and I have taken the liberty to deactivate the link to the Sacred Web Conference videos.

>>15738037
>I'd also love for their brothers to wed my sisters so that we can strengthen our Traditional metaphysics.
Nice strawman, dipshit. Have sex.

>>15738020
post more brown qts

I wish one day to wife them and ravage their virginity (in a traditional way of course)

>>15738043
what's wrong with that? Our caucasoid allies should be united.

>>15738047

>>15738053
Another anon and myself already explained this to you.

>Mashallah

>>15738062
I know you already explained your hypocrisy, we get it. Now sit back and enjoy that anon posting white women.

>>15738083
>Now sit back and enjoy that anon posting white women.
I am enjoying it.

>this girl walks up to you and calls you a dirty hylic in arabic
what do you do?

Imagine if Guenon were alive today, the amount of brown pussy he'd eat up

>>15738109
>what do you do?
if we are being honest, coom my pants.

>>15738132
well he's french so he wouldn't eat much

>>15737973
>>15737982
>>15737995
Where is her hijab??