/lit/ - Literature

Why are bootlickers incapable of thinking things through?

based as fuck. And you know it was a free and consensual choice by the worker. If they refused, they simply could have just used their inheritance to start their own business and not worked for a capitalist. Why is Marxism even a thing? lol.

>>15703950
I'm not a bootlicker I'm a successful CEO faggot. Keep LARPing as a revolutionary while I slay pussy and burn cash lol

>>15703927

Marx is totally irrelevant today, and the left is dead.

>>15703953
king shit. How many are you up to? What's the number that you're going to finally be happy with yourself at?
>>15703957
I learned on /pol/ and youtube that the whole world is a leftist conspiracy to destroy the white race and Marxist jews are responsible, is this no true?

>>15703951
>>15703988
Why are Marxists so bad at irony?

>>15704004
huh? I'm not a marxoid cuck. I love the white race, getting pussy, and getting paid. Name one thing wrong with the things I said.

>>15704020
you’ll never pass tranny

>>15703988

The alt-right and conservatives in general fail to appreciate how total the defeat of the left has been.

Consider that identity politics lean on corporations to provide much of the "soft power" behind their movements.

Consider that most anti-capitalist movements today are sad parodies of their forebears. The champagne socialists are the only socialists with any power left, and they know better than to bite the hand that feeds.

I truly don't understand how a right winger can look at the world today and fret about Marx and his ideological descendants. They are a controlled opposition at this point.

(Also, the "white race" is not the victim of anything but its own hubris. No one of note is out to get you.)

>>15704042
Hi Fed.

>>15703927
>"his" factory
>needs to enforce that claim with violence through the state
>uses said "right" to extort others with the threat of starvation
You're not rich op, and if you are marxism wasn't meant for you

>>15704050
What part of that post suggested "Fed"?

>>15704058
"Muh totally defeated left" sod off, Bernie was wildly successful for how relatively left wing he was compared to most American politicians. Obviously he is a s*cdem but still, Millenials and Zoomers are much more sympathetic to leftism.

>>15704056
Seethe poorfag

>>15703950
Literal NPC response.
Can you revolutionary posers think beyond "bootlicker" and fantasy delusions?

The problem with Marxist parasites is that they absolutely incapable of creating value on their own.
Its a parasitary ideology based around "who do I take from?".
In modern day there are varierty of tools to create your own value. Yet they don't.
Marshitsm is centered on the idea of usurping. No wonder taking over a poor drunk shithole like Russia was their greatest " accomplishment" which quickly became the greatest evils of the world until collapsed on its own.

>>15703950
OP thought it through and realized that Marxists are retards. "Bootlicker" is not an argument by the way, it just goes to show how much of a worm you are.

>>15703927
until you work you are not a worker, but scum. marxism is for kids.

however there's a point in taxes and jobs created by government. point is to occupy your stupid wives and useless children. you stupid pederasts like to cum in vagina but don't like to think about job market for your larvae.

>>15704071
The left is utterly dead and entirely worthless, and this is coming from a devoted Marxist. You're out of your mind if you think Bernie, even if elected, could slip anything substantial by congress. And even if he could, they would merely be lukewarm reforms to keep people content under capitalism. If you think there's any sort of popular left support in the US, or in the entire world, you're equally delusional. The raving idpol lunatics only want reactionary forms of wealth redistribution at best, or just complete segregation and ethnonationalism at worst

>>15704105
F
E
D

>>15704038
alright bro. I was going to invite you to my tiki torch march and bitcoin investment seminar, but I guess not. Guess the white race is doomed now..

>>15704105
>The left is utterly dead and entirely worthless
nah, they were breaking and burning shit in the streets, which caused the bourgeoisie to panic and throw them some concessions less than a month ago. It'll happen again as the coming crises are going to be worse.

>>15703950
Labor as it is currently organized in the world merely cuts out the need for worker to buy their own supplies and do the same work at the same profit margin if counting the cost of materials they would lose out on. Except the artisan life is very unstable and is very susceptible to quick financial collapse. You trade a possible edge of having better artisan work for the security of not relying on personal skill to gain money beyond the bare minimum required by your boss. But more importantly, you will never be a real woman

>>15704136
as if burning shit in the streets hasn't been happening for centuries. what beyond surface-level change and, as you noted, mere concessions, can this possibly bring?
look at 1968, the left was far more organized and had concrete goals and organized platforms, even then it got nowhere

>>15704126
you’ll never pass tranny

>>15703927
It's really more like:
>hol up, these factory owners do be superfluous and shiet

>>15704056
>bro fuck laws and owning shit

>>15704197
Bro fuck 90% of the population and shit

>>15704161
you live under a rock. some democrat cities already moved to shift funding away from police, continuing to invest more money in muh minorities and social services instead. my uni is going to stop calling police for things on campus. we haven't seen much at the federal level becuase Republicans hold presidency and senate. when a democrat takes office you can expect things to go to shit. some californian politicians were trying to repeal civil rights a couple weeks ago so that they could openly discriminate against whites (though affirmative action is still allowed despite civil rigths). communism doesn't work, but social justice is quite the opposite of dead, and as another anon said we might have seen significant gains by socialism had the dems not fucked up their chances with bernie.

>>15704210
of course social justice isn't dead, but social justice isn't leftism, it's reactionary on its face

>>15704197
yeah

>>15704197
Yes.

>Capitalist:

>>15703927
It doesn't matter how many leaps in logic you do, nothing justifies having to submit at least one third of your life to the will of an all powerful rich asshole that you don't even know and doesn't give a fuck about you. Most of the time he doesn't even know what's really going down in the company, he's just a leech that receives most of the benefit. There's literal no reason for these parasites existing and if you defend their existence it's probably just because "but muh private property rights", "but... he had the initial idea!", "but, but he takes the risk!". So before you sperg out, let me get this straight, I'm not against creators getting an adequate compensation. I think creation in itself is labor too. What I don't like, and I think should be abolished, is your entitlement to profit off your creation indefinitely and, in the context of a company, the full authoritarian control you have over it. Investors should also get back the capital they put into a firm and then some for the risk they took, but they're not entitled to then own the firm if they do not work there. In short, I think that Bezos' levels of wealth are absolutely disgusting. You should keep working on your company if you want to keep getting the fruits of its value creation, and YOU should submit to the decisions of the people that actually make your idea work (see: the workers), not the other way around.

>>15704215
therefore, there ARE people out to get whitey, meaning you lied in your earlier post. sloppy job, glownigger. also in american politics, "the left" defiinitely does refer to social justice as well. blame the two party system.

>>15703927
>Capitalist: Hey work in my factory and I'll pay you scraps
>Marx: I think that I am owed more than that
>Retards ITT: NOOO THIS IS LITERALLY THEFT NOO

At least read what the man wrote.

>>15704236
what earlier post are you talking about? never said people aren't out to get whitey
>The raving idpol lunatics only want reactionary forms of wealth redistribution at best, or just complete segregation and ethnonationalism at worst
sure people call it the left, but that doesn't mean it's leftism, just like Bernie or AOC's socialism isn't socialism

>>15704232
Actually only good post ITT

>>15704251
>hey man I don't just pull the lever down I pull it back up afterwards, I should have my pay doubled!
Okay, Bill.

>>15704231
This is the Panopticon Foucault was talking about

>>15703927
because individuals cant issue fiat/debt instruments

Until they can govs and banks rule.

and your fucked

>>15704265
Why do bootlickers love awful strawman arguments? Reminder workers are:
>The labourers making the bottle
>The truck driver taking it from A to B
>The engineers running the factory
>etc etc
You're literally defending some rich guy who came up with a good idea 20 years ago and has barely done anything since

>>15704286
The post I replied to was a strawman argument so I returned the favor lol.

I have worked with my share of "workers" who spend more time figuring out how to waste as much of their 8 hour block as possible than actually doing work and achieving excellence at it. On the other hand, I have worked with my share of oligarchs who had their own family members running management for them and not even giving their family proper health benefits. I despise everyone on this spectrum equally and while I see major flaws in the system, I see even bigger ones in Marx and communism.

>>15704158
W— no. HAHAHAHHA

>>15704096
No, really. You two haven’t given it a single thought.

>>15704092
Typical NPC bootlicker response

>>15703927
>capitalist: Heyyy, parasite. You need to eat dontcha? I got a little job for ya. Fill out an application with HR (or don’t. lol, who needs ya)
>Labourer: . . .

They keep the surplus. Which covers all of the overhead and then some. You already know that. That’s how come they’re rich and you’re poor. They ACTUALLY exploit the labor. Tell me this is news to you. Really? You have to be 18 to post here, you know?

Can someone please explain to me why managing to make money without constant effort is a bad thing? Isn't that something everybody would want?
I agree that capitalism often involves exploitation but in my opinion a solid regulation is much more effective and moral than just forbidding a guy to profit as much as possible

whats the plan for when commie revolutionaries simply create an authoritarian central government that nationalizes all industry and distribution like whats happened literally every single time someone decided to play communism?

>>15704325
>Can someone please explain to me why managing to make money without constant effort is a bad thing?
https://youtu.be/TL470fJMi7w

The reward of people's labor is not proportional to the amount of value they generate for the society. In fact, you can earn millions actively damaging the economy. That is immoral and should not be the case.

>>15704325
Read Marx

>>15704313
>I have worked with my share of "workers" who spend more time figuring out how to waste as much of their 8 hour block as possible than actually doing work and achieving excellence at it.
That's because the average worker is alienated, overworked and underpaid, dumb-dumb. If weekly working hours were reasonable and the wages were just, I assure you this wouldn't happen.

>>15704323
>a marxist in 2020
>and he tripfags

>>15704338
it is good for workers to be poor. otherwise they will breed like rabbits and cause overproduction of workers, and this will lead to another war, genocide, sjw blm antifa activism.

>>15704355
This. Honestly all these anti Marxists would shut up if they actually READ MARX

>>15704325
Marx tries to explain with dialectic how exploitation makes a system unsustainable even though exploitation is built into our biology all the way down to how the inner immune system and brain function. It is a part of life. Marx and his followers are the part of the species currently getting filtered out and going extinct because they lack useful traits in the post-industrial age.

>>15704323
Why do you keep coming here when this board has clearly become basically a /pol/ colony used to satisfy their esoterical and shallow intellectual urges?

>>15704361
>your brain on /pol/

>>15704363
Cringe.

>>15704361
This literally has no impact on what I said, even if we accept this Malthusian nonsense. Are you incapable ob abstract thought, Mr. /pol/?

>>15704355
It doesn't matter why. My point is that unions are often formed by people who would just be oligarchs themselves if they came into power. There are a ton of shitty people in the work force and you can't build a system that hands them immense power. Get real and practical.

>>15704366
Where can we go?

> /lit/
As you said, infested by /pol/

>/his/
Makes this board look like the School of Athens

> Reddit
It's Reddit

What good, non-/pol/ infested sites are there to discuss writing?

>>15703951
>there's only one job

>>15704371
Enjoy sleeping with the dodos.

>>15704379
So you prefer an actual literal dictatorship were everyone under it are miserable and on the verge of getting their ass thrown onto the street rather than a democracy, because the later sometimes exceptionally leads to oligarchy (as if there weren't ways to avoid this)? YOU get fucking real and practical.

>>15704379
Rather give power to 99%(less than this are proletariat but it's the idea that counts) of the population rather than 1% that currently holds it, I don't care if some are lazy or whatever.

>>15704400
Enjoy sleeping in Hell, reactionary scum.

>>15704405
What the fuck do you think you're solving by giving away free power to a bunch of bitter workers who are mostly bitter because they're of shitty genetic stock? All you're doing is changing the hands behind the oligarchies, you nonce.

>>15704406
It would go back to a shitty 1% in short time because this project solves absolutely fucking nothing since it remains in the realm of ideology rather than acknowledging the vital importance of genetics and physical reality.

>>15704326
Shut the fuck up retard

>>15704358
Anarchist, ya drip.

>>15704366
Pol isn’t welcome here. Gtfo.

>>15704385
Nowhere. There's nothing wrong with being right wing. Accept it and live with it.

>>15704443
>anarchist
That's rich coming from someone who sits his tranny ass all day posting on /lit/

>>15703927
More like, come work in my factory or you'll starve to death.

>>15704429
>What the fuck do you think you're solving by giving away free power to a bunch of bitter workers who are mostly bitter because they're of shitty genetic stock?
Well, for instance, making our lives livable, you piece of shit. Is that not justification enough for you, you scum of the earth?

>>15704443
>Pol isn’t welcome here. Gtfo.
I know but it's undeniable that /lit/ is full of literal fascists? How do you cope with it and keep coming back? It's all so tiresome...

>>15704482
just shut the fuck up, /lit/ is a leftist board FUCK OFF already

>>15703927
i get more you get less just cuz lol
and you wonder why shits burning

>>15704092
>"who do I take from?"
kek thats capitalism in haiku

>>15704495
>/lit/ is a leftist board
I wish...

>>15703927
Except it's

Capitalist: If you don't work, you'll die in the gutter. Incidentally, I own a factory and will pay you just enough that you won't die.
Laborer: Okay.

>>15704514
/pol/tards will get bored of their little raid and leave when they're shut down by common sense at every turn

please be irony please be irony

>>15704518
>and will pay you just enough that you won't die
do you live in a 3rd world country or are you just a filipino mass immigrant who works two mcjobs meant for teenagers

>>15704105
>The left is utterly dead and entirely worthless

Almost every country in the world is a social democracy. It's almost impossible to starve to death in a Western country, even if you don't want to work.
That's pretty left and about as left as you can go before things fall apart.

you guys are arguing with a literal 14 year old /pol/tard

>>15704538
>do you live in a 3rd world country
I live in the US, so yes.

>>15704554
Everyone in this thread is a literal 14-year-old /pol/tard.

>>15704502
>i get more you get less just cuz lol
Yeah, some people are born luckier than others.

>and you wonder why shits burning
It's burning because people are ignorant. They believe we could all be equal, even though that's literally impossible.
We need better education and not feed people delusions.

>>15704570
what job do you work that only allows you "just enough to survive"

Just so everyone is on the same page here. Capitalism is a positive feedback control loop. The signals that run through this circuit are concrete labour and capital is the controller which allows abstract labour to be maximized at the output.

Capitalism is an artificial general intelligence (AGI).

Marx already knew this but of course at the time he didn't have the terminology we have now. Let me tell you about AGIs. Computer scientists are actively trying to find ways to make an AGI safe to implement. So far it is not safe because no matter the AGI's objective function, it would tend to do shit we don't want it to do. For example, it is proven that if you give it a simple objective function like collecting stamps, it will start consuming all our resources, eventually reaching the point where it will kill living organisms to use their atoms to print more stamps. You can think of ways to avoid this but you'll probably fail since the scientific community still hasn't found a single one.

You see the problem we face now? We've already built an AGI: capitalism. We know where this leads: complete resource depletion, out-of-control positive feedback loops, basically the AI apocalypse. In theory, we have no idea how to stop an AGI. In practice, you should become a communist.

>>15704601
Doesn't matter. They're all like that here.

>>15704440
Not an argument, because there is none. He's right and you know it.

>>15703927
>Hey work in my factory and I'll pay you
Why is it your factory in the first place, did you built it yourself?

>>15704815
He paid builders to do so, obviously.

>>15704528
marxists will get bored of their infestation of society and leave when they're shut down by common sense at every turn

>>15704753
no they aren't, what a blatantly transparent lie lmao, I guess those sprawling suburbs and average residential neighborhoods filling every city in your country are just a capitalist conspiracy theory and everyone secretly lives in ghettos right?

>>15704105
>The raving idpol lunatics only want reactionary forms of wealth redistribution at best, or just complete segregation and ethnonationalism at worst
The thing is, even if you don't care about morals of not accepting browns, it is not possible to have a capitalist ethnonationalist land today. The rate of profit is so low today, that Capitalism is under life support from mass immigration (lower wages, more profit), and fictious credit (negative interest rates). Natsoc don't realize how bad things really are, and even a fuhrer couldn't do shit to restart the economy. Rate of profit today is far lower than in 1933.
In those conditions, having a Capitalist ethnostate is not something realistically possible. Except if the white (obviously) population of the ethnostate agrees to work 60+ hours for the minimum wage, in order to maximize what Marx called absolute surplus (increase in work hours, but with the same wage, in order to increase profit).

>>15704847
Replace Marxists by Capitalists in your sentence.

>>15703950
What's up with your name

>>15704443
>Gtfo
no :)

>>15704042
>I truly don't understand how a right winger can look at the world today and fret about Marx and his ideological descendants. They are a controlled opposition at this point.

Well here in the UK we have a conservative PM but the leader of the left opposition Labour Party is Jeremy Corbyn, a sort of kooky Bernie Sanders type of character who drifted around the back seats for decades and suddenly sat in the big chair.
He's completely destroyed his party with a silly, incompetent, old fashioned socialist mentality.
Many of the top people abandoned ship rather than work with him, so what you have left over are some of the biggest SJW retards and Communists actually poised to take control of the ship should our left win an election.
We have a similar situation to the USA where we basically have 2 parties that matter, so now our left wing group are a communist party and we're stuck with that looming over us as the only alternative option. There's a very real potential for Corbyn to do to the country what he did with his party at some point.
So far it's ok because his stupidity has repelled the voters, the SJW shit especially has angered Norf FC.

>>15704042
The marxism is still here, it is infesting culture now instead of economics

>>15705285
Just to add
When there was a big fire in London fairly recently, the Grenfell Tower disaster, Corbyn said that nice apartments in the area should be seized from their owners so the residents of Grenfell Tower could stay in them. Rather than set up something like temporary accomodation for them or just fast tracking them to nearby social housing he was itching to go full Bolshevik at the drop of a hat.
The reaction to this fire was as if the conservative PM at the time, Theresa May, had personally burned down the tower with gasoline to murder the immigrants inside. It was literally an accidental fire.
All you could hear on radio at the time was complaints about the Tory party. People PROTESTED in large numbers ABOUT A FIRE. The whole saga was some serious clowntown shit.
Corbyn has also praised Marx on TV, and one of his main administration figures has defended and praised Chairman Mao on TV.

>>15704405
>So you prefer an actual literal dictatorship...rather than a democracy
No that's what Marxists want dumbo.
Every Marxists state has been a dictatorship hellhole where nothing operates properly and people starve to death.
You're bringing up living in the street like that even a common thing, but should we move into your world we'll all be living just like homeless people while actually still inside our homes.

>>15705360
oh shut the fuck up with yor bullshit

>>15704323
shut up
i want to fuck you

>>15704313
If you understood Marx, you would understand how dumb your post is.

>>15703927
If the labourers did not agree with Marx, then this thread would not exist and Marx would be irrelevant.

>>15704514
These threads tend to demonstrate that the users that actully read the subject they are posting about are usually on the left. Don't let the tourists distort your view of this board.

>>15704482
Making whose lives livable? The new 1% of oligarchs who could in fact be a whole lot worse than the current 1% (and as history has shown, usually are)?

>>15704232
basado

>>15703927
lol

>>15704518
No one gets paid that little except if they're working off the books, in which case, why the fuck aren't you on the books?

>work in factory
>worker slave drone
>die in factory accident
>free from the toils of slavery
>life is slavery
>mfw marx was an antinatalist

>>15704232
>YOU should submit to the decisions of the people that actually make your idea work (see: the workers), not the other way around.
Rest of the post is on point but I would argue that this last part is in error, you shouldn't disregard the leadership and experience capability of the person in charge. Their will and work enabled to give birth to such an enterprise, it would be foolish to dilute it with decisions from people that do not grasp the complexities involved. The common factory worker doesn't know how to negotiate an international trade deal or design a space shuttle.

It's the point of fault with every such past implementation. It's necessary to use the intelligentsia, if you forsake the brain the muscle will stumble and die just like in times past.

>>15705285
Corbyn is not the leader any more.

>School was an exercise in do as your told for 6 to 8 hours a day rather than learn new, interesting or relevant things.
>End up sleepwalking through majority of education getting average grades
>Horrendously depressed and have thoughts of suicide, get put on antidepressants
>Get a wageslave job to pay rent and "live"
>Wage away for 8 hours a day, still depressed but numb
>Decide to stop taking antidepressants because "I want to feel again"
>Lose job, end up becoming homeless, sometimes spend nights in a hostel
>Actually meet people who become good friends, engage in a social community
>Also meet absolute cunts
>Feel like I'm actually living despite being an absolute dreg of society, stealing and scheming, fighting and getting high
>a group of us stole a bunch of frozen meat from a pub's outsiders freezer,
>Get "help", end up getting into social housing, get put on antidepressants to help with the withdrawals
>Forgot what it was like to wageslave,
>Reintegrate
>Back where I started waging away
>Decide to come off antidepressants again
>Feel absolutely fucking furious at the fact I fell into the numbing trap again

I genuinely believe that an anarchistic, fuck it all and let it burn society might be better. Maybe I think that way because I'm severely mentally ill but either way a capitalist system tricks you with creature comforts and little hits of dopamine for being good boys and girls.

>>15704413
>complain about exploitation, a fundamental aspect of all life since the Big Bang
>call others reactionary
dumb fuck

>>15706208
>>School was an exercise in do as your told for 6 to 8 hours a day rather than learn new, interesting or relevant things.
>>End up sleepwalking through majority of education getting average grades
I think you might just be stupid anon. You don't think mathematics, history and physics are interesting?

>>15706351
I think Anon has a similar problem with how people can exist without washing their foreskin for decades because "nobody told them you should do that and it just never crossed their mind" until it starts to hurt.

Common sense is learned behavior.

>>15703927
Because the rich will always be rich and the poor will always be poor. It's unfair that the rich today are the same aristocrats and royalty from centuries ago. Faggots who didn't earn their own wealth but rather inherited it. We need a new cutoff but it's too late now.

>>15704363
if human nature was so truly immutable i would have bashed your fucking brains out with a rock you effete chimp, but the boundaries of society forbid that sort of entirely natural expression. that's what the entire civilizing process has been; a refutation of human nature.

>>15706351
>I think you might just be stupid anon. You don't think mathematics, history and physics are interesting?

history as per the amerimutt compulsory common core curriculum is certainly not interesting. it's bug history for bugpeople.

>>15706464
>if human nature was so truly immutable i would have bashed your fucking brains out with a rock you effete chimp, but the boundaries of society forbid that
You just proved him right on the immutable part, good job.

>>15706165
Management and engineers are workers

>>15706506
no i didnt you dumb fucking bitch. dont reply to me unless you're agreeing with me faggot

>>15703927
>encloses all the common land to grow cash crops.
>peasants are thrown off their land and become homeless
>criminalize "vagrancy"
>peasants are offered a "free choice" of starving and/or being thrown into jail for "vagrancy" or moving to cities and working 18 hour workdays in hellish conditions for moloch worshiping pedophiles
wow such freedom, much voluntary association

>>15706543
>human nature ain't immutable dude we aren't all exploitative and shiet we learned betterer!!!1!
>if there weren't cops I'd murder you for disagreeing with me btw

>>15705306
culture wars are made up by capitalists to put a human face on their immiseration of much of humanity you retard

>>15706535
Indeed they are, just like the man responsible for running the whole corporation. Only problem is nothing is stopping him from deciding his own portion. A group of lathe workers will have a hard time running high management.

>>15705285
corbyn was a decent person betrayed by the media and the
everyone in the media turned against him and painted him as the second coming of Stalin who would turn the country into Venezuela, and also they made him look like a vicious antisemite.
besides that the liberals in the labor party conspired against him and hindered his every move. they preferred to lose to Tories than let him get any victory.
these relentless smears and attacks worked

>>15706597
Labour Party favours immigrant niggers more than actual Britons, though. It's an utter joke.

>>15704042
>(Also, the "white race" is not the victim of anything but its own hubris. No one of note is out to get you.)
I would add that all the disintegration of the traditional family as well as immigration that whites complain about is a natural consequence of our econnomic system.
our rulers don't want women at home having children, they want them in their wretched cubicles making money to enrich them.
and they want cheap labor that immigrants provide.

>>15704251
cute pansu

Fuck Marx but nice try wagie internet defense force

>>15706172
Oh yeah Keir Starmer is in now.

>>15706632
>nice try wagie internet defense force

>Fuck Marx
Fuck you

>>15704232
No.

>>15704286
You have absolutely no idea or experience of what company owners and bosses actually do, right?

>>15704362
Yes goy, whenever a neurotypical tells you they disagree with marx, just convince yourself they haven't understood him. Fucking brilliant lmao

>>15706665
Good argument

>>15706208
>>School was an exercise in do as your told for 6 to 8 hours a day rather than learn new, interesting or relevant things.
It's funny because the universal education system is a socialist element of society, compulsory and functioning like an open prison.
If the world of work becomes like that you'll get no say in where you work, you wont be able to quit your job so if you don't like working in a sulphur mine you better suck it up.
Incompetent bosses will never be fired or replaced.
And forget creature comforts completely, you'll get government grey clothes and one type of bread.

>>15706351
History, Math and Literature are fun, however I prefer teaching myself interesting and fun things rather than listening to a mid-20s Stacey or uber-boomer dictate from a required text book. I'm currently doing a part time uni course online and my grades are good.

The modern wagie workplace is an arbitrary hierarchy that tricks you into thinking experience and hard work takes you further when in reality it's down to nepotism and knowledge of the particulars of that work culture. I'm a weird, scary looking dude who regularly visits 4chan so I have zero chance to climb a modern work hierarchy. It's why I like the gym, it's entirely fair and I can squirrel away on my own.

>>15704509
Except nothing has created more wealth than capitalism.

>>15704232
>We should abolish the foundations of any functioning society because I'm resentful that some people have more things than me.

>>15704482
>making our lives livable
Lmao yes, a first world faggot who has enough time to post on a patagonian speculative archaeology mailing list on his fucking macbook, a spoiled brat who can afford to get so offended by what people on the internet think is the oppressed one. Grow a pair, you fragile little whore

>>15703953
Your tendies are ready, Brayden

>>15704753
Stop lying to me nigger, and stop lying to yourself. We both know you panicked when you realized you cannot answer the simple question with a real-life example

>>15704518
Nobody in any first world country is dying in the gutter unless they take deliberate action to completely destroy their life irreparably.

holy shit this thread is hilarious
there are people unironically defending marxism LMAO

>Capitalism cannot reconcile its contradictions and will collapse any day now
>any time soon
>just you wait
>yesiree
Is there a bigger cope known to man?

>>15704744
You seem to believe that consumers under capitalism do not care about things such as not being re-atomized to make post stamps, to continue your example. You forgot that capitalism is a system of meeting demand and not a singular, monolithic entity, you fucking dumbass lmao

>>15704744
People who say this know literally nothing about AI. If you only knew how fucking stupid you sound.

>>15706791
And you seem to forget that capital doesn't care about consumers. If it cares about them now it's only by proxy, because it's profitable. But the moment it stops being profitable (and we've seen when it is not, for example, the Austrian wine scandal, planned obsolescence, etc.), the consumer doesn't matter.

>>15704502
>just cuz
This isn't how society works and you working at Igor's mob-run factory doesn't mean you know shit about how it works at the grand scale, or even at the medium scale.

>>15704744
just turn the ai off? limit its power? lmao

>>15706815
kek, if you knew as low as the definition of AGI, you would agree with me you stupid retard

>>15703950
Brainwashed since birth. Gotta keep the system working for the 1%

>>15706543
You're wrong, negress lmao

>>15706565
And 9/11 was actually an inside job, huh? Stop it with your schizobabble conspiracies.

You mean I have to WORK if I want to live?!

>>15706705
You made a moral claim, and i made as valid a counter-argument as your claim was in the first place. The issue with your retarded opinion is that it is just that, nothing more than a subjective opinion. And since it is a subjective opinion, you can handwave away any disagreement or counter-argument by pointing out that actually, your subjective opinion does not acknowledge the legitimacy of the opposition's counter-argument. You are ingenious in you stupidity.

>>15706833
Oh! We have a genius over here! He solved AGI! Smarter than all computer scientists!

It just doesn't work like that.

https://youtu.be/3TYT1QfdfsM

>>15703927
How can a person be so smooth? Have you read or you just reproduce the agenda that your boss give you?

>>15706887
>computerphile

>>15706856
yes it was, retard.

>>15706784
The funniest part is how they maintain that capitalism collapsing is natural and long overdue, and when their retarded predictions are repeatedly proven false they claim that an exception to the natural lifecycle of capitalism has occurred. These "exceptions" then end up as the everyday occurrence until the marxist finally gets blackpilled and convinces himself that a terroristic power coup is necessary to bring about what he is convinced is the natural state of things. The fact that marxism openly supports this feedback loop and inevitably leads to societal collapse is what makes it so dangerous.

>>15706840
Based ESLtard

>>15706816
What? How can capital care about anything? Define your terms.

>>15706649
and he's begun the purge of lefties from the party

>>15704092
Based.

>>15706876
Whaaa? You sound like a fascist, better watch ya mouth

>>15706971
As in inputs to the system. If some input doesn't result in more profit at the output, it doesn't care about it.

>>15706900
The comedy writes itself

>>15706856
The ""culture wars"" only exist because people with money and power in media push for it. The public just reacts to what they are told and shown, they have no actual power or agency, and they are only fighting themselves.

>>15707009
Thanks for the clarification.
You seem to ignore the human factor, opinions and moral stances not only of the capitalist but also of the consumer. Not to mention that there are laws to prevent certain profiteering behaviors that have been voted as being too destructive.
In practice, this means that a musician might not make the most profitable kind of music possible, but will prioritize his wants and might strive to primarily make music he enjoys making and then secondarily might attempt to make that music as profitable as possible. Similarily, a company might make a financial decision that is against the moral compass of it's customers but is predicted to increase it's profit. The customers either will choose to disavow the company, making their venture less profitable, or tolerate the breach of morality, proving that the move the company made is being approved by society at large. And then of course the law can step in if not only morality but also the law has been breached.

Money is after all a direct indication that a societal want has been fulfilled, mind you. The more money made, the more society has been satiated in some way, the more people have seen the service as more important than the amount of money dictated by the price. I realize we may be talking about different kinds of capitalism though. In either case, there is more nuance to the conversation than simply labelling both kinds under the same umbrella and therefore bad.

>>15703927
I have an honest question for Marxists: how do you solve the human problem without killing them? How do you honestly prevent power from becoming centralized without a culling of the elite? If history has any indicators on reality of our future, then this is the cycle of Marxism and why it inevitably fails every single time.

>>15707060
Because the public is idiotic. If the people are dumb enough to accept the moral panic bullshit they're being peddled and reject liberty in favor of a fad, they deserve whatever's coming to them. Especially the gulags. In america, the consitution has done everything it can to maintain a stable social order without infringing on the freedoms of individuals. If the people are so brainwashed they want to cast that off, then perhaps a reset is in order.

>>15704126

Jesus that's unfunny. If you heard someone else say it, would you laugh? This is an important question to ask yourself when writing what you feel is humorous.

>>15706672
The owners certainly don't do enough to earn like 20x the amount labourers do

>>15706856
Yes. It's like the Jameson raid, funded by big business to cause a war for profit.

>>15707117
>how do you solve the human problem without killing them?
you dont
>How do you honestly prevent power from becoming centralized without a culling of the elite?
you dont

marxist revolution is purely praxeological insofar as it's pure means, no end. it's to uproot the status quo and eliminate the weak and useless who cannot adapt to change. whatever replaces the current system is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, revolution was successful in purging undesirables and, in a century or so, will become necessary once more.

>>15707117
You do cull the elite lmao. Fascist reactionaries bourgeoisie slavers will get the bullet.

>>15707899
literally what is the point if you just get a new set of elites

>>15703927
You are actually intellectually impaired.

>>15707899
You do know there will always be new elites, right?

>>15707899
Have you ever wondered how many people would like to be in the shoes of those "Fascist reactionaries bourgeoisie slavers" once the current ones are gone. Think that through before making your retarded revolution.

>>15703927
>Aristocrat: God told you to toil in my field serf, go do it
>Serf: Ok

>Liberal: ZOMG NOOO THIS IS LITERALLY SLAVERY NOOO
Why are Liberals like this?

>>15707937
its similar to your immune system purging pathogens. sure you'll never stay clean forever, but it's a necessary part of the process to keep yourself healthy

>>15706617
Obviously. But Natsoc thinks mass immigration and atomization is the result of Marxists. It's strange how the human mind can be so far from the truth, year after year, after we repeat those facts, again and again.

>>15706746
Nothing has dehumanized more than Capitalism.

>>15703950
>2020
>he still think “bootlicker” is some grand insult
lol. You’re literally a fucking 1917 larper.

>>15706784
Without fictitious credit, it would already have collapsed. Have you even heard of the recent negative interest rates from the central banks? It's ironic that it is exactly during the collapse, so currently, that we have posts like you.

>>15708230
Capitalism literally constantly collapses, it's literally a feature of capitalism to collapse so new wealth can be created from the ruins.

>>15708246
2008 called they'd like a word on how we don't live under your ebic capitalist utopia.

>>15708246
>Money printing, so basically creating more debt
>New wealth is created.
You don't get it. Capitalism is already finished. The rate of profit is already to low for Capital to renew itself. So it compensate with fictitious credit.

>>15708098
>Aristocrat: God(the natural forces of scarcity and mortal necessity) told you to toil in my field serf, go do it (or you will starve to death more easily)
>Serf: Ok

>Liberal: ZOMG NOOO THIS IS LITERALLY SLAVERY NOOO

>>15708298
Yes, I'm sure it was the "natural forces of scarcity and mortal necessity" the aristocrats in France were using as a justification to tax their peasants to pay for debts instead of themselves, causing the French Revolution and their heads to fall promptly on the floor.

>>15708335
they were certainly living longer

>>15708283
I'm literally a Marxist you dumbdumb. Creative destruction is a feature of capitalism and it's one of the reasons it doesn't collapse unless it's forced to.

>>15708351
>I'm literally a Marxist you dumbdumb.
>Capitalism
>it doesn't collapse unless it's forced to.
You should be more Marxist. Like Marxist who have read Das Kapital Vol.3.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tendency_of_the_rate_of_profit_to_fall

>>15704366
You wish.

Go back to /pol/

>>15708412
I have read it, but that doesn't change anything I said. Do you think capitalists will just give up the reins freely just because their profit margins are dropping?

Well you're wrong. Like the French aristocrats, they won't stop until the pitchforks come out.

>>15708424
I wish it weren't, I'm a communist, I hate the /pol/tards shitting up the board with their race baiting.

>>15708293
>Capitalism is already finished
And yet here it is.

>>15706816
>capital doesn't care about consumers
Anyone who refers to capital in this way really has no idea what they're talking about. Systems are made up of people. Not to mention, the underlying principles of capitalism make the consumer an extremely important part of the system. Consumers literally vote with their wallets, and capitalists are interested in consumers with fat wallets. If consumers are robbed blind, in time, they either won't vote for you anymore, or they won't be able to anymore, which means your products won't go anywhere.

Reminder capitalism literally isn't real. We imagine it. Stop giving value to money.

>>15708667
>>15707097
I'm sorry but it seems you're too low IQ for basic abstraction. It doesn't matter what the system is made of or what the consumer wants or whatever you're concerned with, you can always map the inputs and outputs and analyze the system as a black box. In the case of capitalism, when you do this the resulting system fulfills the definition of AGI and we know basically how AGIs function (they eventually kill all living organisms if not stopped), what's so hard to understand?

>>15708621
>And yet here it is.
Like a terminally ill person, in palliative care.

>>15703950

>>15708815
Just to be clear, Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ , as well as many (most?), Marxists, like me, don't lick the boots of the anyone. We want to abolish the State, hierarchy, delegation of power.

>>15708230
>negative interest rates exist to keep capitalism alive
Read up on Keynesian economics. Low, or even negative credit rates, are temporary to increase aggregate demand and get us out of a recession. Like wise, to prevent economic inflation, high interest rates can be implemented. It has nothing to do with saving capitalism because Marx erroneously predicted profit rates will fall

>>15708787
Because the human element the most important part of the whole system. There’s no point in abstracting capitalism without the human factor

>>15708667
>Consumers literally vote with their wallets
This is a nice notion but the people in charge of everything do as best they can to make this not matter. Sometimes they're basically a monopoly and you have no choice but to give them money. This would be less of an issue if they only offered some stupid bullshit that you could just go without but stuff like internet for instance is a necessity these days and in certain parts of the US internet is basically monopolized. Other times masses give their money to a company despite them being complete garbage and you realizes you don't want to give them money has no effect on them continuing to exist and spread their practices. I'm not saying with this that capitalism is bad but there's a lot less oversight than there should be and some companies have perfected the art of ensnaring customers despite shitty practices.

>>15709177
>There’s no point in abstracting capitalism without the human factor
Well, that's your opinion. Check this thread out for a more in-depth discussion >>15708912

>>15709137
You don't understand. I'll answer, not for you, but for the others.
Capitalism cannot renew itself. It cannot generate enough profit in order to transform money into goods, and goods into money with profit (because without profit, it doesn't work). So, since profit cannot be made anymore in many economical sector, artificial profit is created, which comes from artificial money. Virtually, profit has been made, but without those artificial credits, companies would be in deficit; Negative interest rate are not temporary, they increase and increase the national debt, up to a point where it doesn't make sense anymore, and the whole system breaks. If a company gets free money, and boast that it has made profit with this free money, because the whole economy is injected with massive money printing, it is not real profit, and it is not sustainable. By the way, quantitative easing which was supposed to solve the 2008 crisis was also supposed to be temporary, and yet here we are, the debt has increased, and in 2020, even more money is printed at negative interest rates.

>>15709449
(Edit to be clear)
If a company gets free money, and boast that it has made profit with this free money, because the whole economy is injected with massive money printing, it is not real profit, and it is not sustainable, because the counterpart of this profit is increased debt. At one point, people want accept to be paid with fiat money anymore, and the whole thing will collapse.
Anti central banks will argue: it is the fault of the central banks. Not necessarily, because even if we had gold as a money, we would already have reached a point where Capitalism cannot renew itself, in many economical sector. FIAT money only delay the phenomenon.

>>15705403
>living like homeless people
>inside our homes
You have no idea what its like to be homeless do you anon?

>>15708930
And you do that by.... putting and pushing policies that stringent the hold of the sate over individual. And not even a Marxist state but he current corporativized and corrupt one..... for fucks sake.
It's like all of you fags forgot that the state is the tool of the elites to oppress the proletariat. It's like all of you imply forgot that mar said any sort of social reform and the welfare state were simply means of placating the popular revolts and maintaining the status quo.
Maybe not you specifically but most Marxists today are beyond retarded. The forget that before socialism can take place capilism must take hegemony and move into ti's late stage, then revolts and societal change will take care of the rest. YET YOU FUCKS DOE EVERYTHING TO STOP CAPITALISM FROM ADVANCING!!!

>>15704919
You're not only wrong on the basis that impending automation will meet all labor demands in the next two decades, but nationalism will be MANDATORY during this transition to automation as having millions of unskilled immigrants will lead to catastrophic unrest as work evaporates.

>>15708230
>fictious credit
rly mks me thnk

>>15709587
>You're not only wrong on the basis that impending automation will meet all labor demands in the next two decades,
Automation lowers the rate of profit.
>nationalism will be MANDATORY during this transition to automation as having millions of unskilled immigrants will lead to catastrophic unrest as work evaporates.
In two decades, the west will already have been replaced.

>>15708810
any minute now...

>>15709648
I understand that for an early 20 something 4channer, patience must not be something you possess. Feudalism lasted around a thousand years, but finally disappeared. It's only normal that it takes Capitalism a few decades to collapse.

>>15703927
If you read Maxist texts he addresses this. Go back to the beginning of the industrial revolution and you'll find something called "enclosure", where a common land used by agragrian labourers is taken over by landowners. Having lost their livelihood, to avoid starvation they are forced to sell their labor. Some return to the fields to work them for less gain, many are forced to sell their labor to early english factories; which are hideous to work for. People not working were forced into poorhouses; where you were forced to work for incredibly meager wages.

The quality of life of the working poor is taken for granted nowadays, but its only thanks to the achievements of organized socialist labor that they were granted in the first place. Without it, you could expect 6 day 14 hour workweeks, exploitation systems like company stores and scrip, child labor, death and maiming from unsafe conditions, and on and on and so forth.

>>15709673
You have been saying that since the 50s. and whatever the fuck you believe "feudalism" to be is probably wrong. YOU have monarchies and republics of several times working trough out the middle ages and Brian is still a monarchy.
Or are you going to tell me there was no difference between the warring Italian states and the kingdom of France?
That the chines bureaucratic state under the Qin was the same as the caliphates? fuck off with your reductionist view of history.

>>15709673
peak cope lmao

>>15708787
Please take your dialectic and shove it up your ass where it belongs. You are not talking "basic abstraction," you are talking nonsense dialectic in order to confuse those you're arguing with.

>It doesn't matter what the system is made of
Yes it fucking does, because the system does not transcend the people that make it up.

>or what the consumer wants
Yes it does because no one forces consumers to spend their money on any particular brand or good.

>>15709199
>Sometimes they're basically a monopoly and you have no choice but to give them money.
In what country? Countries where the people are biologically predisposed to capitalism operate without this problem. The genetics of the people making up the system matter.

>>15709688
based

>>15709891
>In what country?
There are a lot of areas in the US where internet companies act as monopolies. Where you only have one choice and sometimes this is from multiple companies conspiring with each other to split areas between them so each company gets a certain part of the area.

>>15709891
kek, you're beyond brainlet, please stop posting

>>15709918
It's not a proper monopoly if

1. the people in the area are happy with the one company's services, and
2. the people in the area aren't actively requesting competition in the area

Nothing is stopping another company from stepping in and offering competition besides if no competitor sees a good reason to do so, and as for some businesses buying up others until few if any can compete with them, do you realize that this happens because the bigger business has been voted into power in order to do so? This power will fall as soon as the people consider their products and services to be undesirable, which will allow another competitor to step in and get the ball rolling anew.

But AGAIN, it all comes down to the people who make up the system. When you have more and more people in the country who don't stand up for themselves, there is far more civil unrest and corporate exploitation, and it's not capitalism that brings those people in or creates them, but good old democracy.

>>15704158
People may be able to meet all vital needs easily today, but vital actions and functions of our nature are not meaningfully fulfilled.

>>15709891
Look retard. Mathematics allows you to abstract whatever system you can imagine into abstract terms. How useful is the abstraction and where it leads is another whole different debate. Anyways, we can abstract capitalism into it's most basics terms: inputs and outputs, and this is whether you like it or not. Maths doesn't care about your feelings.

>>15709977
>Nothing is stopping another company from stepping in and offering competition
There is indeed something but commies don't like to mention it. Something that does indeed create complete unbreakable monopolies, protected by yet another entity with a monopoly on violence..

>>15710039
>Maths doesn't care about your feelings.
You support your "math" merely due to your feelings. You're a hypocrite.

>>15710066
Why so scared by a little simple abstraction? Mind you, this is the basis of all accelerationist currents. So even if you're a right-wing retard, you can still accept this framework without having to renounce your reactionary stupidness. What's not to like?

>>15710087
Who the fuck is "scared" of "a little simple abstraction"? Disingenuous cunt. Metaphysics doesn't transcend physics.

>>15710105
Well, you don't seem too keen on seeing where it leads. You're scared of going down the rabbit hole?

>>15710123
It leads to idealism which is falsehood if you assume that it transcends physics right from the start. The entire concept of capital being an "artificial intelligence" is moronic idealism.

>>15710134
Abstraction is not idealism.
There is abstract materialism: read Sohn-Rethel and stop embarrassing yourself.

>>15710188
You're not talking about abstraction if you refer to capital as an artificial intelligence or a caring agent. You're talking about idealism then.

>There is materialism
Materialism is a type of idealism. You want rabbit holes, I can go there.

>>15710200
How is it idealist to put a system in a black box? I honestly don't see it.

>>15703950
You are the cringiest poster on this board. You're literally an adult women but have the mindset of an edgy 15 year old girl.

>>15704355
>humans arent naturally lazy and gluttonous
Fucking delusional. I guess you're a lazy sack of shit because you feel to "alienated" to even clean your room right?

>>15710294
Only dirty right-wingers are, and they project that onto the whole population.

>>15710318
Every marxist I talk to online is super industrious. Every marxist I meet irl is a slob. Funny how that works

>>15704020
>I love the white race
and yet you support the rape of the white middle class, how ironic

>>15710383
By Marxist, do you mean people who actually have read Das Kapital, all three volumes?

>>15710318

>>15710514
Fair distinction. I did meet some clean cut faggot professors who were of that variety.

>>15704232
Truth

>>15706784
kek

>>15703953
>I'm a successful CEO
t. shit that never happened.

>>15709566
>And you do that by.... putting and pushing policies that stringent the hold of the sate over individual.
No.
That the red square. Vanguardism. Leninism. Tankies. The green square is “communism” or “anarchism” immediately. Freedom through mutual aid and organization.
> but most Marxists today
Are often just newbs finding their way through the differing ideologies. Some still liberal, some going vanguardist
>They forget...
Woh. Wait a minute. You’re a do-nothing tankie? It’s just gonna happen, so sit back and relax? Okay, talk about naive.

>>15710281
>You have such a youthful vibrancy, it’s hard to believe you’re nearly 50
Thank you, anon.

>>15712049
>Woh. Wait a minute. You’re a do-nothing tankie? It’s just gonna happen, so sit back and relax? Okay, talk about naive.
Anyone with a bit of understanding of the global stage would actually Ratter do nothing than placate the masses with """reforms""" and advance bourgeoisie policies by creating a race war putting the proletariat against one another and making people forget that what truly divides the haves and the have nots is class. Everything the """"left""""" has done in the past decade pushes the revolution towards the distant future and weakens the cause. It seems a though they are actively working towards stopping the possibility of a worker revolt.
Also don't try to force a communist system or you will end up with a Soviet Russia situation where they went straight from a monarchy to a communistic system without the necessary steps to prepare the society and the institutions to deal with the new system. You HAVE to let capitalism run it's course firsts instead of trying to dismantling it in the first sign of crises. And after that you over to a socialist system and let that also run it's course. The changing of systems doesn't happen in one generation and those who try to make it happen that fast ed up hurting the cause.

>>15712049
Youthful vibrancy doesnt consist of a decade of shitposting. You are a wasted spinster

>nearly 50
jesus christ woman, get a fucking life.

>>15712143
I agree with the first paragraph. Those are manipulated crowds of progressives and rainbow tankies.
The second, not so much. I think we’ve just been manipulated and divided for far too long and have to take a more active and comprehensive approach. I say no to armed resistance only because it’s pretty hopeless against the military might of a state. But what is this waiting? For the state to become weak enough for the military to seize control? That’s tanky or fashy right there.
I’ve been pushing this book. I really think you should read it.

>>15712049
why would anyone that old waste time on this cursed site? don't you have a life?
Is this our future? posting endlessly on a fed honeypot for the lack of social interaction we get on real life?

>>15712203
Work and reading soak up a lot of my life.
Some people waste their lives watching tv of playing video games. I read and chat about books with odd, sometimes sad, people.

>>15704313
>radical business class centerism, the post

does your ass hurt from sitting on the fence so much?

>>15704355
>If weekly working hours were reasonable and the wages were just, I assure you this wouldn't happen.
Your assurance is worth nothing..

>>15712284
"reasonable working hours and wages" is also meaningless. If they were cut down to 7 hour days, people would want 6, and then 5, and then 4 and so on. 8 hours was also not even formally standardized, it's what competitive businesses and their employees all eventually settled on. Same with wages besides minimum wage.

>>15704495
Evidently not, wipe the tears of your cheek and face it.

>>15712284
In a socialist world. A world without capitalism. No money. Work would be honest and a joy.
And culture would flourish.

>>15704207
You mean the 90% of the population that have smartphones, 60” flatscreens, and are overweight due to easy access to food? Kick rocks scumbag, I’m not living in your gulag.

>>15712313
What work would you do that would be "honest and a joy"?

>A liberal muslim homosexual ACLU lawyer professor and abortion doctor was teaching a class on Karl Marx, known atheist ”Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship Marx and accept that he was the most highly-evolved being the world has ever known, even greater than Jesus Christ!” At this moment, a brave, patriotic, pro-life Navy SEAL champion who had served 1500 tours of duty and understood the necessity of war and fully supported all military decision made by the United States stood up and held up a rock. ”How old is this rock, pinhead?” The arrogant professor smirked quite Jewishly and smugly replied “4.6 billion years, you stupid Christian” ”Wrong. It’s been 5,000 years since God created it. If it was 4.6 billion years old and evolution, as you say, is real… then it should be an animal now” The professor was visibly shaken, and dropped his chalk and copy of Origin of the Species. He stormed out of the room crying those liberal crocodile tears. The students applauded and all registered Republican that day and accepted Jesus as their lord and savior. An eagle named “Small Government” flew into the room and perched atop the American Flag and shed a tear on the chalk. The pledge of allegiance was read several times, and God himself showed up and enacted a flat tax rate across the country. The professor lost his tenure and was fired the next day. He died of the gay plague AIDS and was tossed into the lake of fire for all eternity.

>>15706784
>don't worry bro the revolution is inevitable, capitalism can't possibly continue so just keep playing videogames, watching porn and eating sugar, did you see that picture of Trump with messy hair? Haha

>>15706856
PNAC

>>15712313
Fairytale faggotry unless you Brave New World the population.

>liblefts and anarchists think their ideologies are even remotely achievable or compatible with human nature

>>15712313
>In a socialist world

That's right
Having seeing you around always seems that your comments are on all occasions shallow and generic i'm sure all you want is to get attention here, in an anonymous board ffs

>>15712324
I’d help pave the streets if they showed me how.
I’d like to make sturdy beautiful furniture.
But I’ll tend to my garden and write after this.

>>15712360
You’re a fool hoping for a dystopian nightmare.

>>15712377
Oh noes! We forgot about human nature!

Oh no, wait, we didn’t.

>>15712384
No I'm just preparing for the worst while you lot act like paradise is inevitable.

>>15712384
>You’re a fool hoping for a dystopian nightmare.
He's right though. We need to accelerate our ability to quickly determine IQ level and then reorganize society before you're ever going to have a system that can work the way you imagine it to. The reason why we're where we are is because we can't determine this without extensive testing per individual yet.

>>15712405
You don’t know me very well. Don’t pretend to.
This is a quest. This is an age that calls for heroes. And I’ve always found it disheartening to hear only whining, (at worst evil), coming from a literature board dedicated to the classics.
Our success is not assured, our failure is predicated by those who wish to make it inevitable.

>>15712433
>iq
Get out.

>>15712439
You're not implying IQ isn't real, are you? Do you seriously think everyone has an equal level of intelligence?

>>15712313
>Work would be honest and a joy.
>And culture would flourish
Every Utopian fantasy to ever exist has claimed monopoly on this. What differentiates your's from any other?

>>15712449
*Thumps you on head with a thimble*

>>15712313
Even then you'd probably have something akin to a compeditive scene for every occupation and casuals would get relentlessly mogged.

>>15703927
Absolute retard. Marx's entire project is dedicated to describing how any why the capitalist system of factory ownership and freely sold labor is DIFFERENT than the slavery or serfdom that preceded it. Stop arguing with distillation upon distillation that exists in your head, and engage with the actual thinker you fucking moron

>>15703950
Just imagine
you come home from work, a rough day. you hang up your coat and in slinks butterfly, on all fours as she has been all day, caked on make up falling off in bits.
"anon, I need..."
she turns her wide rump to you, pointed up into your face. even clothed it reeks.
"I need..."
she's sweating, and clouds of red collect anywhere here pasty, fishlike skin can be seen. you already know what she needs.
"pls anon"
either she drops her pants or they fall on their own, knowing what must happen. begrudgingly you remove your cock, erect out of a sense of duty more than anything else.
chubby fingers spread the ponderous cheeks, a yellow tinged string of some fluid webs between them, coyly hiding your goal. like the mouth of a hungry baby bird, her anus beckons to you.
you insert your glans and she begins moaning-- not wholly in pleasure-- and you can feel kernels of corn and other detritus grazing your urethra.
faster. harder. can't let it escape. if you pull out now, you'll just have to start over.
you coax the brown beast as butterfly moans louder, squeezing her sagged breasts in vain. just a little more. fingers clenching ass cheeks. minute farts escaping around your shaft. she's muttering something now, but you're. almost.
pushed out by a tidal wave of warm, viscous diarrhea. dangling, stained cock a witness to the tsunami of what once was a family sized portion of El Pollo Loco and drinkable yogurt. she's cumming, rubbing her vagina angrily-- but this is no vaginal orgasm: it is a pleasurable relief centered in the bowels, the fresh snow after an avalanche.
shit continues to pour, now only liquid, from her quivering anus. she thanks you
"thank you anon" *fart* "oh, thank you so much"
still on hands and knees, she leaves the way she came, leaving shitty cursive all over the wood floor. you proceed to the sink. in the other room you can hear the unmistakable sounds of a keyboard clacking.

>>15712468
First. The strategy >>15712225
not included in that book, the economy. A non accumulative currency would be a further incentive for these democratic autonomous neighborhoods.
Thirdly, yes, I do take into account human nature. With effort the payoff would be quite favorable, especially in light of the collapsing economy.

>>15712478
Okay. And we’d keep automation where we saw fit. Putting people off work isn’t a life or death situation when capitalism is wiped away. We’d busy ourselves with something, or kick back.

>>15712544
Yawn

>>15712559
So you strategy is to simply implement a non-accumulative currency? And how do plan on preventing differential accumulation?

>>15712596
I don’t think that would be an issue.

>>15712630
Holy based

>>15712630
Why not?

>>15712559
And what makes your Utopian strategy any different from any other Utopian strategy? You haven't actually answered the question, you've just kicked the can down the road.

>>15712646
The non accumulative currency is a labor voucher that doesn’t work like money. There’s no till or bank.
Just from the looks of it
> Differential accumulation is an approach for analysing capitalist development and crisis, tying together mergers and acquisitions, stagflation and globalization as integral facets of accumulation.
The voucher doesn’t facilitate capitalism, mergers and acquisitions, stagflation etc. mergers would be handled democratically pro bono.

>>15712653
Well, I’m never calling it utopian for one thing. That’s a genre of fiction.
For another, “kicking the can” is natural, as I am not going to be some overseer. This is going to be up to people to decide on all sorts of metrics. I can only suggest to small numbers of groups. Say, upwards of about a thousand.
What makes it different? I donno, read the book. Getting Free. It’s very short.

>>15712661
A meant differential accumulation in the broadest sense -- not only in the monetary realm.

>>15712677
I’m not an economist. Please explain what you mean than

>>15712676
>What makes it different? I donno
And that's probably something you should figure out. As it stands now, your imagined society's claim to validity is just as grounded/groundless as any other.

>>15712688
I'm not speaking economically.
Differential accumulation in pre-money societies resulted from the superior ability to mediate between the community and the divine beings that presided over it. Arguably, this is something that is still occurring today, albeit in secular terms.

>>15712313
So what work do you do mothshit?

>>15712392
>Oh no, wait, we didn’t.
Actually, you did, and you also forgot to read history. Marx's ideas were already tried, and they lead to major in-fighting between various white societies, and they ultimately failed, because people's ideas stem from their biology and NOT from their education, and as long as there are various biological compositions, there will never be utopia for all. Dialectic is sterile, and what you think it reveals about the world means nothing in the end.

>>15703950
>calls others bootlickers
>takes every opportunity to defend marx online

What if I like socialism but I dislike Hegel? Can we have non-marxist socialism again?

>>15704326
seriously how has not a single commie even tried to answer this question?

>>15712720
Not sure I follow yet, sorry. Can you give some example?

>>15712698
No, I mean I don’t know what you mean by “different”. James Herod makes the case that anarcho-communism hasn’t been tried. Syndicalism partially worked out famously in Spain, but it wasn’t enough for workers to seize their workplaces. You need the whole community to get on board, and to truly organize.
Surprisingly he makes a better case for direct democracy than Bookchin’s representative confederalism. To my mind.

>>15712753
Junk.

>>15712798
History was my first love. I have indeed been considering the ways of the human mind. I understand why we’re stuck in this ugly death spiral. And it isn’t some inherent evil or whatever you’re thinking
>Marx’s ideas...
To hell with you. Why don’t you people EVER FUCKING LISTEN? Do not talk to me if you’re not going to read what I tell you. I am NOT a Marxist.

>>15712813
Talking about it now.

>>15712863
>I understand why we’re stuck in this ugly death spiral. And it isn’t some inherent evil or whatever you’re thinking
What then?

>>15712902
This world’s system we inherited has grown gangly and gruesome and can and will lead to our extinction, unless we make the effort to divert, diverge from this path. We avoided nuclear Armageddon, so far, we can do it again.

From the start, laws set up iron fisted leaders and their money system. We’re so used to it that we think it’s a part of our nature, but it’s not. It’s a self perpetuating social mechanism. So now we have modern capitalism and it rewards only the most sociopathic best. And they of course hire sadistic bullies to defend the treasures they’ve stolen. Most people just give up. They don’t want to make waves, and the sociopaths and bullies the herd them into their little chores and treat them like sheep. Indeed they think of themselves as higher beings. Most people just want peace, left alone, a decent modest life. But they actually have to fight for a genuine fully lived life.
How do we change? Turn away. Stop thinking of money as wealth. We are wealth.

>>15704232
>the world should be as I want I don't want reality it is not just and fair reeee
I all women should duck dick at any time on request, government should build and give out luxurious villas for people to live in and everyone should get coupons for 100k dollar car.

i hate niggers

>>15706784
What retards don't understand is that even the most communist country like North korea is actually capitalist. The only difference is who controls capital. Ironically people control capital in "capitalist" country.

>>15713012
based

>>15712948
Sounds like there's at least two different natures that you're talking about, the "peace-loving and modest" and the "iron fisted and sociopathic," but you didn't really describe what the common thread is between them which I thought you were getting at.

>>15713017
>Ironically people control capital in "capitalist" country.
Ahahhahahaha.
They have bank accounts, so feel very invested in the system, but they are not the capitalists, they are not in control. The Fed is.

>>15713012
oof

>>15713028
You missed it? *sigh*

The human mind is extremely malleable. Fix the system, the human becomes generally nicer and rational.

>>15708175
That how it works right now in democratic capitalist country you retarded marxist monkey. Not to mention that people live better than at any other place or time. There is no need for your edgy teenager revolution.

>>15712863
>Talking about it now.
Since the thread is on 300+ replies, could you summarize the results for me?

>>15713049
So you don't place any importance on DNA differences, even though the brain is a very complex physical organ? What about on other physical differences, like height, muscle mass, color, hair growth, genitals, etc. They have no bearing on our perception?

>>15713071
Herod’s Getting Free and Cockshott’s Towards a New Socialism are the way forward. Imho

>>15713049
what are your thoughts on gun ownership?

>>15713075
You asking about medical and scientific advances to clear up what ails us? Why would we stop— we’d actually start. You know they’re not seriously trying to cure things like cancer because there’s too much money in treating it.

>>15713082
Be very careful. Safety on, lockbox secure, remember Ruby Ridge and Waco

>>15713041
Capital is not money. Fed does not control my factory. You should understand at least that much before discussing economics. I am sure even Marx understood that.

>>15713098
what guns you got?

>>15713098
No, I'm asking you *what* it is that ails us. Right now I gather that you think of it in a purely social or metaphysical sense, which is why I asked about if physical influences had any bearing to you. What if the difference between being "peaceful and modest" and being "iron-fisted and sociopathic" was also physically determined in the species, not just socially? What if socialization is limited by genetics? What if society means something very different to different organisms?

>>15706758
Kek

>>15703953
Actually read Marx. Maybe you’ll realize why you’re miserable and seeking validation on an anime image board. Trust me, I used to be you.

>>15713099
>my factory
Okay, you are a capitalist. The majority of people are not capitalists. Though they feel that having money makes them so.

>>15713122
A very bad motivator. Competition is fine and all, best in sports., but as a deadly game of survival? It is primitive, and can actually be sidestepped.
And yeah, our material needs influence us greatly.
And yes, there’s always going to be a lot of variety of human behavior

>>15703927
That is also a capitalist criticism of capitalism. Wage slavery used to be a mainstream idea.

>>15713149
And who controls factory in non capitalist countries? Real answer is always people who are in power. And usually they are good at getting in power not building factories.