/lit/ - Literature

>>15673170
>Would anyone like to discuss it?
no thanks

>>15673197
Why?

>>15673170
>Moldbug
Yeah, I think I'll pass.

>>15673209
Thanks for the bump. Would you like to give my thread another bump by explaining why you feel that way?

qrd on moldbug?

>>15673343
The interview is a fun introduction. He's basically a Crypto-Monarchist a la Hoppe but with an eye on the modern political discourse and the decline of the Liberal system and how one can be a true reactionary in said system.
A lot of what he's talking about now is liberating yourself from the constructed dichotomy of Neo-Liberal politics.

I like Moldbug even though he's a jew

gay mirror of the nigger king

>>15673170
Right wingers will never accept this ugly autistic jew faggot

>>15673170
I have a suspicion that he will be the systems new alt-lite face. Not sure as of yet but that video with Justin Murphy was pretty telling to me. I'll read the book but I just expect it to be third position but of a more mild varient.
Remains to be seen if he is the system trying to consume once again, in a reactionary form, the newly appeared right wing radical force that has been growing within the past 5-10 years.

>>15673603
Right-wingers will never achieve anything either so who cares?

>>15673170
Does Moldbug even talk about Mencius in any book? Why did he name himself that if he isn't influenced by the philosopher?

>>15673603
You aren't actually Right wing.

>>15673603
The mild varients might. Seems to be neutered third position to me.
People like Justin Murphy should be kept far away from us at all cost. Leftist diogenes who still live off the system while pretending to be against the system, become in the end Judas style traitors, especially when things begin to get heated.
These people would turn upon us quicker then they did they're fellow academic leftists. Moldbug just seems to be one of these types.

>>15673622
moldy's love of order seems perfectly compatible with the confucianist extended universe.

>>15673612
>rightwingers will never achieve anything
>if it wasn't for those evil right wingers we'd have full communism

This is your brain on leftism

>>15673656
This is how I know you won't achieve anything.

>>15673644
But does he actually talk about either of those guys or their thoughts in detail?

>>15673642
How is Justin Murphy against "the system"
He's just another liberal

>>15673609
>Remains to be seen if he is the system trying to consume once again, in a reactionary form, the newly appeared right wing radical force that has been growing within the past 5-10 years.

His work being deliberately designed to steer the audience away from racial politics instead of capitalizing on them when they're most relevant isn't enough of a clue for you?

>>15673612
Neither have or will leftoids so I guess we’re even

>>15673656
Right wingers did shit
it was centrist liberalism

>>15673656
they can never decide if they are brave underdogs fighting the system or if they're already in power

>>15673662
Keep telling yourself that.

>>15673662
>no u retort
lmao

>>15673671
He's not against the system but he styles himself like he is. That's what I meant.

>>15673675
That was a collaboration.
If right-wingers got everything they wanted all of life would be working 6 days a week at 10 hour day jobs and having no hobbies because hobbies are degenerate.

>>15673170
Can so eone give some rough outlines of whats it on? I would like to know. I kinda always had a rightist hegelian veiw on things which is somewhat compatible with monarchism.

why does yarvin hate fuentes? is there dish here or is it just judaism

>>15673673
I haven't read all of his stuff. I've only watched his interviews that's why I was being careful. But I'm not surprised. He came across as an utter faggot in the Murphy interview. Chris bond has far better content. Same with Keith woods.

>>15673701
Because Fuentes is a stupid kid that doesn't know what he's getting into, self-styling as a dissident without actually doing anything that would accomplish anything but still risking jail time anyways.

>>15673691
traditional societies don't look like that anywhere

>>15673691
Cope harder wageslave

>>15673711
Right-wingers aren't traditionalists.

>>15673709
are you referring to the four year old charlottesville motor derby or did something else happen

>>15673723
Groyper wars, i.e. when he got a bunch of pre-college kids to put their real names and faces to publicly announcing their dissidence in controlled-opposition territory.

>>15673691
Ironically this is how the most leftwing places on earth tend to be

>>15673696
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8U3F7G70ggY&t=627s

>>15673719
enjoy your private language then, sperg

>>15673719
Who are you kidding. What is conservative and neo con right wing to you?

>>15673656
Because of evil right wingers millions of people died in WWII.

>>15673691
Neo liberals are left wing

>>15673717
Being a middle-manager is still a wageslave.

>>15673170
Based. What the right wing needs is Moldbug's sincerity instead of edgy memes

>>15673343
Excellent writer, with a good knowledge of history. He made his reputation as a neo-reactionary when his blog Unqualified Reservations rose to fame (well, famous among those who read such things).
In my opinion he has all the markings of a gatekeeper. He's willing to say almost anything except somehow his bottom line always remains: opposition to race realists, identitarians, or anyone who thinks white people should prevent themselves from being genocided. And he's a Jew.

>>15673745
It is worst than wageslavery because that position give you a false sense of superiority when you're just another slave of your boss. Even the whole staff hate you for being a braking dog of the boss.

Dark Enlightenment is just extreme neoliberalism

>>15673801
And that's a good thing.

>>15673743
Thought they didn't achieve anything :^)

>>15673759
>Excellent writer,
Come on now.

>>15673375
>Crypto-Monarchist
Do you not know what the word crypto means?

>>15673759

Yeah, this is it, more or less. Except he's not an excellent writer; he's OK.

He's a clever guy who, one feels, is perfectly happy using his cleverness to do quite nicely in the system as it stands. I get no sense of outrage at the crazy wickedness of present-day society. His amused detatchment isn't just a pose. He's posing as what he really is.

>>15673603
A bunch of ineffective losers will never accept Curtis, how will he ever recover

>>15673170
>5 minutes in
>start talking about hitler
>"he was probably gay"
(((moldbug)))

>>15674368
how did this board turn so gay

>>15673739
anything he doesn't like

>>15673170
good quality conversation. don't normally listen to podcasts. any recommendations for more high-level discussions like this?

>>15673603
I've grown out of him is all. UR was a fascinating read in like 2016 I'll give him that, but that time has passed.

Here's a good example from a recent interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGN44yXgbGQ&t=527

> "The thing that's really important not to do is to inhabit their caricature of you, and that's exactly what you're doing if you're a nazi or a white nationalist. I'm speaking directly to you now. You're not in this room. I understand you think you're being uncompromising and super metal, but that is actually a very one-dimensional way to think and there are actually much more metal ways to be super metal."

That right there says it all. He plays the same trick as the establishment in grouping up all identitarians (in this case nazis are the same as white nationalists), feigning sympathy, and presenting alternative edgy political stances. The message is: "you can be edgy goy, just don't align yourself in any way with other whites. Look at all these other novel and interesting political stances you could have instead."
If you start leaning a little bit right they've got Jordan Peterson or Ben Shapiro to keep you going further. Or if you're too old for that, there's always the neo-conservatives like Bill Kristol. But if you insist on pushing further, we'll here's just man for you.

>>15675104
That podcast seems to have quite a few episodes including one with Nick Land.
Also, you might like some of the streams the distributist has though I can't think of one in particular.

>>15673343
basement-dweller LARPing as a philosopher while wearing leather jackets only for photo-shoots.
Has an audience of incel trads who jerk off to traps.

>>15673717
Fuck off commie.

>>15676013
On the "inhabit their caricature of you". He's right, at least if we're talking about the American "alt-right" scene. It's a bunch of cringelords who are too happy to play the villain role that the media assigns to them. (And then they cry when they get kicked off r*ddit or f*cebook...)

As to the white nationalism vs nazis question. Sure, lumping them all together is a bit sloppy and dishonest.
But what is the difference, really? That the white nationalists are kinder and less violent? (We don't have a white nationalist organization, so we can only speculate.)
The fundamental bad optics of exclusionary/supremacist race-based politics in 2020 is hard to solve, the whole system is against it.
Even if you think Moldbug is your enemy, you should probably listen to what he has to say and expand your horizons.

>>15673719
This. Rightwingers only care about the consolidation of political and economic power into a small elite class. They don't give a rat's ass about traditional values.

>>15673170
Hi Curtis

>>15677417
Nah bitch I am a post-modern aristocrat aka NEET
Go work for my benefit slave

>>15673533
lol nice one...

>>15677531
Are you leeching off the state, or your family?

>>15677531
*take away your parents credit cards*
Good bye, NEET

>>15673759
>Excellent writer, with a good knowledge of history
Also very attractive

>>15677422
Moldbug discusses, in the episode of Hermitix he did, sort of why White Nationalism and National Socialism (as dissident politics, NOT as an actual "in power system") can't work.

Leftism is a process of entropy, by which many small actions chip away at an established order to lead to a greater disorder. You cannot do the opposite in reverse, many small actions building order. At best, you can get a stable disorder that doesn't get more disordered. Order has to be established in one fell swoop that gets progressively smoother as time goes by. You can throw a glass cup on the ground repeatedly and smash it, but you can't throw glass shards on the ground and bash them into a cup.

National Socialism (AS DISSIDENCE) was thus an inherently Leftist activity, which is why we see the Nazis were far more tolerant of Leftist politics, ideals, thuggery, etc when they were just a particular faction fighting against the establish Conservative (capital C) order. Then, when they got in power, they suddenly veered much farther Right, as they began to establish their new order. The USSR did something similar, where wanton thuggery and revolution were encouraged to get power, and then Stalin cracked down once in power.

So you can't just turn the Left's tactics on them at a philosophical level, because it just doesn't work like that. At a mechanistic level, you can't because Jews aren't Whites and the tactics Jews used to get the best of Whites don't work on Jews, sure, but even if the Jews weren't in charge, it would still be the same.

This is why Moldbug's entire thing is about "establishing order", we literally cannot disorder ourselves into a better world.

>>15678502
So no, I wouldn't say he's trying to say that the goyim should just quit being racially aware (his great uncle was a Jew or something, if I remember correctly? He's not "goes to synagogue" Jewish), he's saying that you should look beyond the entire Liberal paradigm entirely. Hell, I'd say he's not even really writing for us, he's writing for the future warlords who are going to attain power, and they won't do that through "White Identity", or any identity, they'll do it through violently leveraging their advantages at a local level.

Moldbug is plenty critical of Jews, I just think he realizes that when you step outside the Liberal paradigm they don't really matter. If you're a warlord, and some Yid comes along and starts trying to do (((the usual))), you don't need to react through ideology, you just have the Yid taken out back and shot. Jewish pornography is only a problem in a society where the rules mean Dear Leader can't have them all hanged at a whim, after all. To put it another way, Jews are only a problem because Whites are asleep at the wheel.

Why hasn't this pseud been deplatformed yet?

um um UM haha umm ummmmm ummm hahahah ummmmm um um um

>>15678537
>once you step outside the Liberal paradigm they really don't matter
They've been mattering for at least 2000 years, dude. CY isn't interested in tackling the subject seriously and he is disingenuous about why.

>>15673691
>all of life would be working 6 days a week at 10 hour day jobs and having no hobbies because hobbies are degenerate
And being paid the equivalent of $20 a month, standing in bread queues for hours and saving for a year or more to buy a pair of jeans. No time nor money nor culture for hobbies.
Welcome to the USSR.

>>15678803
They were the instrument being used, not the other way around. Jews having actual power is a novel development like barely 200 years in the making.
Before that they were an equivalent of an organized crime sindicate and a general 'lighnting conductor' to throw at the angry plebs at times, at the mercy of their ghetto owner.

>>15678539
why should he? because you disagree with him?
stop being a little bitch

>>15673533
Gang memoir of the niggalicous pimp

>>15673170
>the big book of reddit

>>15678838
Sounds pretty based to me you retarded consoomer

>>15679801
Are you really trying to argue that there wasn't capitalist consumption in the USSR?

>>15673609
>explicit opposition to democracy
Sounds like progress over the alt-lite desu

>>15673343
blog writer who unironically self identified as a "neo-camerialist" (yikes) also jewish and the son of alphabet intelligence spooks (YIKES!)

>>15680050
Every single aspect of USSR was based

>>15673609
Not possible. In UR he wrote about black Americans being the point of worship for the cathedral religion, HBD, and imprisoning criminals in VR work camps.

>>15673642
I think Justin has a sincere curiosity and good intentions. Some of his takes are beyond retarded, though.

>>15680124
That wasn't an answer to my question

>>15680227
>In UR he wrote about black Americans being the point of worship for the cathedral religion
Well, that was prescient.

>>15680227
he also literally defended slavery lol. He was mostly just playing devil's advocate to back up Carlyle but still, that was actually the first thing that got him attention from progressive iirc.

>>15673170
>let's all discuss the overly wrought intellectual meanderings of a trust funded pseud
Why bother? Seriously? What do you gain from this. If you think someone like bug honestly has something to say despite knowing his history, you are an easily led idiot.

I don't get why people find him interesting. Everything he says has been said already by smarter people than him in less syllables and less purple prose. I mean, he's literally just a 5 dollar Ted Kaczynski, even his "Cathedral" shtick is just a ripoff of Ted's "The System".

>>15678537
If it can't work why do (((they)) seem so afraid of it? Why does every publicly visible political stance seem deliberately crafted to lead whites away from racial awareness?
Second, this sort of high-level systems thinking seems off the mark. Perhaps the overarching system can't be "fixed" by many small actions, but like new growth after a forest fire, smaller regions of order can exist in a disordered system. This is exactly what white advocates want. Some region of land - doesn't matter if it's small - where we can exist as a defined people. We not trying to save the world here.
Also I want to say thank you for your response. Even though we don't agree I appreciate a quality post when I see one and it's obvious to me you've actually read Moldbug.

>>15680828
i would say the one original thing he did was his fusion of the idea of competing memeplexes with the recognition that progressivism is such a memeplex and an analysis of the institutions through which it replicates. People had noticed that progs were a lot like protestants, people had noticed that academia/press/etc. are informal branches of government, and Dawkins came up with the idea of religions being memeplexes that compete for hosts. The synthesis was as far as I can tell original to him though. Im sure you can tease out functionally equivalent statements from various previous thinkers but not quite that explicitly and prominently stated.

>>15678803
You say that, but only because you live in a regime where the Jewish view of history is the only one that matters. The Chinese wouldn't agree with your statement at all, and frankly neither would Westerners pre-1900.

Jews have power because they out-Anglo'd the Eternal Anglo and took over his empire. Now they're running it into the ground. In a few centuries, nobody will care about God's Chosen People (TM).

>>15673754
>sincerity
Yes, because being a milquetoast "third positionist" monarchist that sheepishly ignores the role of tribalism is really going to fly.

>>15680848
>This is exactly what white advocates want. Some region of land - doesn't matter if it's small - where we can exist as a defined people.
So basically you just want an Orania in the US. A tiny place with no ability to determine its own destiny just waiting to be snuffed out by the larger society that allows it to exist. Seems like the same thing your enemies want.

>>15680857
That may be, but his solutions are even dumber and don't really solve the underlying issue. I mean, WASP capitalism, which existed for a long time, was also enforced in equally in the same way as the "Cathedral" is enforcing progressivism now, to the point that the cops shot people on university campuses in the 60s for demanding freedom of speech.

I mean, the Cathedral used to be owned by WASPs and I'm not completely convinced that was so much better, because if it was, the ideas would've survived, wouldn't they? So much for the survival instinct of memeplexes.

>>15680848
>If it can't work why do (((they)) seem so afraid of it? Why does every publicly visible political stance seem deliberately crafted to lead whites away from racial awareness?
For the same reason that every Home Defense fantasy on /k/ begins with the Nogs openly stating "WE'Z GONZ BREAK INTO ANON'S HOUSE AND RAPES HIZ WIFE AND KILLZ HIM, YO": it puts you into a rigidly defined moral position of absolute black and white. You are a Nazi, that means that your mistreatment is acceptable. You are a Nazi, therefore the system can deal with you swiftly and with as much force as it wants. At a religio-psycho-cultural level, it also feeds into the Jews entire worldview as yes, you are a Nazi out to persecute them, they're 100% right that the Nazis are out to get them (I can rant more about this if you'd like).

I agree with your comments about order and the like, and I think that overall we have to keep in mind that Moldbug doesn't really "have a people". Like, if you're a Rural Southerner, or an Appalachian, you still sort of have a community that you're part of if just because you all live there and HAVE to work together because geography. Moldbug is part of this growing global caste of people who are clever, can do clever things for a living, and have no real roots to speak of so they can just flit around from Silicon Valley to Beijing to NYC to Houston as employment demands.

To use your analogy, the fire ending IS the Ordering Event. So while I agree with your idea (assuming it's big enough so that what >>15680912 said can't happen), what constitutes an Ordering Event can vary. For Michigan, it'd really just be "Michigan gets left alone long enough to handle its own affairs". But for Moldbug, the Ordering Event has to be the destruction of his entire caste. The jetsetting software engineer HAS TO DIE. Moldbug is, in my opinion, HOPELESSLY Blackpilled because of this, because he genuinely has nothing worth preserving. Rural Whites still have Stuff Worth Preserving, he doesn't, so he can see quite clearly what has to happen with no "okay accelerationism is clearly based and smart and all, but how do I keep my small town from getting burnt down?" to cloud his eyes.

>>15680120
>unironically saying yikes
Yikes!

>>15673170
>and UMMM UMM UMM
>and UM
>UMM
>so UMM
>UMMMM
Fucking hell.

>>15680825
That's a lot of insults and zero content. Are you sensitive about something? Jealous of his popularity? Why?

>>15681034
So in that sense, an Ordering Event that completely changes the system could happen. China has a massive authoritarian system that allows (and encourages) ACTUAL diversity in every way imaginable, and works just fine (within its own criteria). So, it's totally possible that Neo-Augustus comes along, resolves some fundamental problems within ZOG (Moldbug actually does talk about this), and therefore rural rednecks don't have to have trannies in their libraries anymore. That can happen. Will it? Fuck if I know. I predict Neo-Augustus but honestly I don't know how much that will alleviate the problems we have.

But right now, under the current System, we can't have that, so RIGHT NOW the idea of "well just repurpose Saul Alinsky but for racism" doesn't work in the same way that Kekistanis becoming the New Jews, just as the Jews became the New Anglos, can't happen: The reason Jews replaced the Anglos is because they were better at something, and that something was furthering the goals of ZOG (or rather the empire that would become ZOG), so the only way we could do that is if we were even Jewier than Jews, and we'd only do that by Jewing harder than Jews, so we'd only be making things worse for everyone, ourselves included.

>>15681029
>but his solutions are even dumber
you won't find me disagreeing there lol. I did enjoy reading his ridiculous ideas but I never took them seriously. The entire tone of his blog indicated to me he was sort of shitposting.

Your memory of the 60s is a bit wrong. The students were shutting down free speech in the colleges by that point, specifically shutting down racist speech.

And it is very clear to me that it was better when WASPs ran things. The society is basically collapsing now

>>15681085
I should add, in the defense of Moldbug's order vs disorder, carving off a section of the US to be North American Orania would be an Ordering Event. How useful it would be is up for discussion.

>>15681069
>and zero content
You keep saying this in every Moldbug thread and everyone keeps calling you out on it. Anytime someone criticises this dysgenic weasel, there's always some faggot like you waiting in the wings to repeat the phrase "zero content!" It's pathetic. I already told you: his writing is overly wrought, meandering and the fact that his wealthy parents have basically pushed their little darling into the limelight at every turn is egregious - I do not typically like individuals who insist upon their own greatness as a result of some complex given to them by their overly doting parents in early childhood; it's thoroughly unattractive and it permeates Moldbug as a man. Nothing he says or has said is in any way original or insightful; he's basically another boorish Hoppean with a laptop who curiously blanches anytime someone tries to mention the overriding importance of in group preference in traditional right wing politics. I am sick of seeing him on this board whenever he manages to wrangle one of his sycophants into letting him drone on for an hour or so on their podcast. It's all so slimy.

>>15681194
Whoever has said this to you in the past, I'm not him; you might consider this recurring pattern as it relates to your interactions with the world.

>>15681301
It was not said to me. Improve your reading comprehension.

>>15673375
>crypto-monarchist
He's a full-on neo-absolute-monarchist and says so quite clearly. do you even know what crypto means?

>>15673801
Moldbug isn't apart of the dark enlightenment.

>>15677425
It's more like right winger acknowledge that elitism is inevitable and that power is always conserved. It's just that all of our nationstates are being run incredibly poorly and are built solely on hatred and resentment towards the old-regimes. Traditionalism may even naturally return once we establish an absolute-monarchy that isn't plagued by progressive ideology

>>15681310
You're referring to something you read, so clearly it was said to you. And now you're just grasping at semantics because your confusion as to the number of your antagonists has been revealed.

>>15681332
The term DE was coined by Nick Land in an essay that is primarily about Moldbug. It's used almost interchangeably with neoreaction

>>15674563
If Hitler was smart he wouldn't have lost the war and curse us to this progressive hellscape

>>15681314
It makes the word sound cooler

neo should be expunged from the language and crypto is making its way there

>>15681384
>You're referring to something you read, so clearly it was said to you
lol what faulty logic. I am saying I have seen similar responses to other posts by other anons in the past in threads like these. Why are bug fans such as yourself always such tards?

>>15673170
Fuck DE

>>15681418
Here's you two posts ago:
>You keep saying this in every Moldbug thread
Here's you now:
> I am saying I have seen similar responses to other posts by other anons
Fucking retard.
I've never had to contradict myself this way. My posts are a flawless tapestry of consistent reason.

>>15681399
I don't see it. Sounds more like its something he's keeping a secret when he's not

>>15681486
The post you're responding to was a joke

>>15681495
o

>>15681479
>I've never had to contradict myself this way.
You are a fucking retard gorilla if you think those two posts contradict each other in any way. The first is stating that I have seen this in every Moldbug thread, the second is clarifying that the posts I am referring to in these Moldbug threads were not my own. You are honestly the biggest fucking mongoloid on this site to not get this. Stop embarrassing yourself.

Anyone read the Eumeswil book that he talks about in the interview?

>>15681524
When you say, "you are mongoloid," who are you talking to? Me specifically or every anon you ever encountered? Who even knows what you're talking about or who you think you're talking to, you inconsistent schizophrenic retard.

I'll be the leader :)

>>15681576
are you worthy?

>>15681570
You, obviously. You doddering fucking chimp. You've shat the bed in this thread, and now you're trying to cover your tracks.

>>15681580
no :(

>>15681580
sure

>>15681583
Me specifically? The same person you thought was making posts in every other Moldy thread, yet who has never posted in a Moldy thread before this one? Am I one person, or a multiplicity of antagonists you imagine yourself in a war with? You don't even know, you can't keep it straight. You're one way in one post, another way the next. Retard.

>>15681194
Ok. So it's just resentment.

>>15681588
then you won't be the leader.
>>15681597
What makes you worthy?

>>15681624
yes

>>15680908
Moldbug doesn't ignore tribalism, though he might think it is petty and herdish.

>>15681624
>What makes you worthy?
My mommy says so

>>15681602
You're obviously trying to move the goalposts, so I'll refer you back to this little nugget you came up with...
>You're referring to something you read, so clearly it was said to you
This is an absurd statement on your part. You seem to think that because I am referring to a post in a previous thread, that post must have been directed at me - as if people don't simply read through threads here regardless of whether or not the posts are in response to their posts specifically. Your original contention that I must be referring to myself and my own posts when talking about the "no content" reply in previous threads falls flat on its face because of this. I merely stated anytime "someone" criticises this dysgenic weasel... not every time "I" criticise this dysgenic weasel... You lack the ability to engage in close reading and have made a series of idiotic assumptions as a result. Now, like a fish out of water, you're desperately flailing about. Fuck off with this idiotic quest of yours, dude. You made a mistake, now move on before you make yourself look like more of a spastic by replying.

>>15681606
>Ok. So it's just resentment.
>y-your just jealous
Of what? Your middling wealth or your absence of a chin?

>>15681674
You can't even be aware of what wasn't said to you. You are the subject of everything you hear. And this little diversion of yours is only intended to cover your embarrassment at mistaking countless anons for a single antagonist- you absolute fucking retard.

>>15673170
>Moldbug has been going on a series of interviews

Wow, you're not kidding.
Here's one that is perhaps more zoomerlit friendly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGCzcBA7Uys

>>15681714
Didn't say jealous, you just don't really offer any substantial criticism and just resort to ad-homs because... people have in-group preferences and Moldy thinks that's a bit cringe? Because you don't like him as a person? Honestly it's hard to even see what makes you so angry at this guy. Is it because he's not a white nationalist?

>>15681785
>countless anons
Mate, the poster number hasn't gone up and your manner of writing is really obvious. Stop trying to weasel out of this. I merely stated that I had seen replies of yours (your ilk) in a thread about Moldbug directed at other anons criticising Moldbug previously. I found this refrain of "no content" tiresome and valueless. When someone says "you keep saying this," on an anonymous image board, they tend to be referring to the context at large (in this case, Moldbug's fandom). I am disappointed that you take things so literally; I will try to modulate my posts to take your autism into account in the future. Your claim that I must be referring to criticisms of Moldbug in those threads I myself made is still totally nonsensical, and you are still a slow learner for making such a faulty assumption. I read a reply in a previous thread so clearly this reply was made to me? You're a little thick in the head, mate - it has to be said.

>>15681831
The Moldbug-Yarvin interview felt much more watchable than a lot of the other interviews he gave. The questions presented were also quite good.

>>15681873
I mean *Malice-Yarvin*

>>15681873
>The Moldbug-Yarvin interview felt much more watchable
Which one?

>>15681849
>you just don't really offer any substantial criticism
Patently false, but you'll keep saying it.

>>15681904
factual but you'll keep denying it.

>>15681922
>no u
As expected of a fan of this pseud.

>>15681943
kek. Ok my goy

>>15681871
>the poster number hasn't gone up
We're in one thread, retard. Not reading the rest of your gay and unironically Moldbuggian logorrhea

>>15681963
>goy
Easiest way to spot a "goy" larping as a Jew. Are you an Israeli grandpa that has time travelled from the eighties?

>>15681982
>Not reading the rest of your gay and unironically Moldbuggian logorrhea
I accept your concession.

>>15682005
No you don't, you insist on dominating your phantom antagonists as represented in the form of me, just one of the people who sees your idiocy as it is. The proof of your obsession is this: you will compulsively respond to this post

>>15681831
Malice brings out the best in Curtis here I would say. Probably because Curtis knows he doesn't have to explain the basics like he does with other interviewers.

>>15682274
Malice is always very accommodating to guests of the same tribe. He is only critical to the outgroup. Typical.

>>15675342
Whose time is it now

>>15682815
mine

>>15682837
Ok. Inform me of your grand philosophy of life. I'll wait.

>>15681831
I'm enjoying this.

>>15682866
Shitpost on internet. Collect (you)s.

>>15681831
zoomer's like Malice? He's annoying.

At this point I have to assume the derailing of this thread is intentional. What is the motive here? Were we getting a little too close for comfort re Moldbug's true motivations?

Does anyone have an argument against Moldbug's ideas? For example, the Cathedral

>>15683645
Moldbug discussing his feelings towards white nationalism:
>The sensation is visceral. It is the sense of the presence of evil—of the Adversary himself. I am not religious, but I do believe in evil. It is impossible to fight without believing one’s enemies are, in some way, evil. To believe one can be above this feeling of pure revulsion and contempt is not to have advanced to a higher spiritual stage, but to be an arrogant prig.
(from https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/2007/11/why-i-am-not-white-nationalist/))

The argument against him is that his rhetoric is simply a weapon he uses to fight "evil". His motivation is not truth.

> I can imagine one possibility which might make white nationalism genuinely dangerous. White nationalism would be dangerous if there was some issue on which white nationalists were right, and everyone else was wrong. Truth is always dangerous. Contrary to common belief, it does not always prevail. But it’s always a bad idea to turn your back on it.

This is his own words. White nationalists are right about some things, but at the same time he thinks they're evil and must be stopped. Hence he formulates a mythology that attempts to encapsulate those same facts might lead an individual to become a white nationalist while at the same time directing them away from forming a racial identity.

>>15683645
it's literally just rebranded cultural Marxism which is the internet's conspiritard name for cultural bolshevism which is what the Nazis called everyone who believed in progress instead of, y'know, killing jews and brown people. trying reading an actual book sometime instead of listening to delusional schizos resentful ratns about people with a college education. OMG the CATHEDRAL is CONTROLLING THE WORLD!!!

>>15683645
I hadn't read anything by him until today. The interviews posted are not very challenging -- the hosts were trying to please him.
His stance of opting out of US politics while being on political podcasts makes me question his motives a bit.
I think the Cathedral idea makes a lot of sense. I think the cause might be simpler... for example, all universities can see Twitter, so its pretty easy to tell which way youth opinion is blowing, so it isn't shocking they all 'agree' in modern times.

>>15683645
Yea. What he calls the Cathedral is actually just "whatever ideas are useful to capitalism at this stage".

I think he reifies the Cathedral into some kind of metaphysical identity when in reality progressivism and left-liberal politics simply supplanted WASP capitalism as the dominant justification for continuing capitalism.

It's not a coincidence that literally every single fucking major corporation is spewing out progressive propaganda, and it's not because they are infatuated by idealism, it's because the ideas are more useful to global capitalist domination.

>>15683730
I don't care about White Nationalism
>>15683742
You seem to be posting in bad faith without having read the material.
Moldbug seems to be merely stating the way that the education system (which is a continuation of Puritanism) functions as a core for the production of our civilizations meta-narrative by creating a hierarchy of "truth". Also, his point on it's reason for swimming ever leftward is pretty clear in that he defines the left as being in opposition to order and a more anarchic (kind of) system allows for more people to have illusory power and thus become part of the machine of the Cathedral without even consciously knowing it.

But I could be wrong. I just spent 30 min reading Moldbug for the first time.

>>15683824
I'm not understanding his points about the natural tendency toward leftism. In the interviews he says it like the host and the audience all know it to obviously be true, but I don't have that assumption.

Lmao what happened with Urbit?

>>15683789
If it was just capitalism it would be everywhere there is capitalism, but it's only in the West.

>>15683854
The West IS everywhere with capitalism

>>15683869
You don't see this stuff in India, or Israel, or the gulf states

>>15683845
The core of our civilization is Anglo-American Liberalism and Moldbug would define Liberalism as an inherently left-wing ideology because of it's opposition to Order.

>>15683854
Yeah but that's the point, capitalism is a chimera that can subsume any kind of ideological justification into the system.

And the reason it does this is that the hierarchyalways persists, which is why it continually needs a justification for that hierarchy.

In the West that justification went from Whig fanaticism to modern WASP traditionalism to modern liberalism to progressive liberalism, but that's just because those ideas were convenient at the time.

You're mistaking something being useful to capitalism with something being deterministic.

In South-Korea, capitalism is often justified by reference to Korean nationalism. Which is also how capitalism used to be justified in the West too, nationalism is useful that way.

>>15683891
>Liberalism as an inherently left-wing ideology because of it's opposition to Order.
how would he define order?

>>15683922
Define "Capitalism" please. I'm not trying to be pedantic but I would like to know exactly what you mean when you say "Capitalism".

(P.S. not the guy you were responding to)

>>15683922
how does eg. letting blacks destroy American cities help capitalism? Why do Detroit and Baltimore exist?

>>15683944
I'm not %100 sure but He's a monarchist so i'd assume an absolutist Sovereign kept in check by a vested interest in the public well-being of the society.

>>15683949
I basically mean the global system of private ownership of capital.

>>15683955
>how does eg. letting blacks destroy American cities help capitalism?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_destruction

>>15683979
So all of America is implicitly left in this discussion. The language makes more sense now.

>>15684009
https://b-ok.cc/book/3403998/52fb8c
Here's the bookzz link to download an epub of his collected writing from Unqualified Reservations.

>>15683995
Those cities are black holes of crime and welfare. billions of dollars in real estate value were lost, nothing has been created

>>15684070
Who says anything has to be created *there*?

If some group of looters burns down a Target, Target gets a 50 million dollar insurance payout 5 days later.

>>15684087
The idea that the 2020 race riots are being allowed to occur because of Insurance seems pretty shady.
In the OP podcast Moldbug described the riots as basically a theatrical performance of rage that was being allowed by our ruling class because it allowed the regime to flex on it's fictional enemies while also obfuscating the inherent flaws within the regime's system -- that seems a lot more likely desu.

>>15684087
>When you let blacks burn down your major cities, you win. This is pure creative destruction.
Is that you, Justin Trudeau?

>>15684119
Well, both things can be true simultaneously. The ruling class can cynically take out insurance on everything that burns down at the same time as they donate to BLM and tell everyone to stop being so racist. There is zero contradiction here, in fact that just seems even more likely.

>>15684119
isn't there something about goldman sacs getting trillions of dollars in bailouts rn or something?

>>15684154
In relation to the riots?

>>15684121
I have zero problems believing American capitalists would emaciate the Midwest for even more capital like they have done the last 50 years, and spend it on another factory in Bangladesh or Shenzhen.

None of these people are the friends of the U.S.

>>15684169
Honestly, it seems like you and Moldbug agree on what the problem is (though you call it Capitalism and he calls it Cthulhu) that being an ineffective ruling class that are incentivized to betray the civilization (you could say people) in exchange for personal wealth and GDP. But you're solution (dismantling Capitalism -- I have no idea what that is supposed to look like but desu I'm pretty stupid) seems a lot less doable than his (replacing this system with a system where the welfare of the Sovereign is tied to the welfare of the civilization).

>>15684166
yes. pretty much the riots exist so no one pays attention to yet another bailout of money changers.

>>15684234
That seems more like opportunism than a cause

>>15684229
But the sovereign serves at the will of some group, since he seems to be imagining monarch as CEO. Regardless of the type of monarch, I'm not sure that the welfare of the sovereign and the welfare of the populace are naturally aligned for any reason.

>>15684234
sometimes people riot and it isn't a conspiracy by the elites. Locking down the riots would have been extremely difficult and put fuel on the fire motivating the riots.

>I sincerely hope Bernie wins the Presidency
- Curtis Yarvin aka Mencius Moldbug

WHAT did he mean by this?

>>15684260
Off the top of my head. The Sovereign has no incentive to betray the populace in exchange for personal wealth unlike the elected official. All of the Sovereign's decisions have to be made with the long term welfare of the state in mind as opposed to the politicians decisions which only have to plan until he is out of office.

True you need a good Sovereign but that's why you have an aristocracy that can be educated in what actions will lead to the best functioning state plus we could kill anyone who looses the mandate of heaven.

>>15677322
The Distdibutist is very hit and miss. Good background listening because he can take a while to get to the point

Is Curtis gay and that's why he has no kids?

>>15673711
right, they look worse than that.

>>15684402
I think he has kids.

>>15684260
The same is true for the Central Committee of your favorite Communist Party.

>>15684169
idiotic regulations play far more of a role than your fantasies of The Capitalists paying blacks to burn cities down. if anything, race riots prevent the kinds of economies of scale that exist in Asian cities aren't really possible in the US, because whenever a city becomes prosperous, blacks move in, and race riots inevitably follow after that. You can't have the kinds of centralization of production in cities that one sees in Shenzhen, Guangzhou, etc. in the US any more - race riots will kill it even if other Progressive idiocies don't.

>>15684664
>race riots prevnent the kinds of economies of scale that exist in Asian cities from forming in the US
Fixed

>>15684305
You should read a bit of history and see how real monarchies worked in the past.

>>15684862
First off, they worked pretty well for most of human history and were on average stable societies in which one could lead a fulfilling life.
Secondly, even if they weren't, do you really want to play this game as a Communist, Dude?

>>15684402
He has atleast two

>>15685262
Non archaic kingship is inherently parasitical.

>>15673673
this was the nail in the coffin for me

>>15683882
you do, just in a different form. Look at how Indians persecute the traditional caste system.

>>15688408
>>15673673
Moldbug was the OG neoreactionary who wrote in the 00s, before the "growing alt-right" from 2016. How can you even accuse him of this?

>>15686697
>Non archaic kingship is inherently parasitical.
not in functioning monarchies like the Arab States or Bhutan. He's advocating for actual monarchism, not just ceremonial monarchism.

>>15686697
All human interactions are inherently parasitical. Inequality is. Get over it, Liberal.

>>15684260
For Moldbug monarchy (and Patchwork as a whole) are ultimately just placeholders. His ideal system is Sov. Corp., in which a CEO (Or, more precisely, an executive council of a CEO, CFO, CRO, CSO, etc etc etc) seek to maximize the value of shareholders. Shares are held by "The Citizens", used in the Classical sense. The sovereign's welfare is aligned with the populace's welfare because it's literally the only way for him to make money. Monarchy and aristocracy are the closest that this system has come to being put into place.

>>15684280
Accelerationism, for the same reason he's endorsing Biden.

>>15688444
They're obviously reddit post-election transplants. Best to ignore them

>>15688502
>All human interactions are inherently parasitical.

>>15688521
Moldbug was accused of doing that from the very start. To the point he felt it necessary to write in 07 or 08 a post titled "why I am not a White Nationalist'.

>>15688521
>Moldbug can't be a gatekeeper because he's older than the concept of white nationalism
fucking lol

>>15688559
Anyone even remotely on the right eventually has to write to that effect because wn spergs just can't help themselves. Anyone should seek to distance himself from those purity spiraling lead weights.

>>15688591
>gatekeeping white nationalists is bad
A white nationalist complaining about elitism or gatekeeping is pretty rich.

>>15688623
Firstly, you're an idiot for assuming I am a white nationalist. What is it with you bug fans and idiotic snap judgements? I swear you people might as well be the new "YouTube skeptic community" in terms of how embarrassing and ill conceived your thought processes are. Secondly, you've managed to falsely equate gate keeping with elitism. Gate keeping in this instance refers to a bad actor who offers questioning individuals a more lukewarm alternative to an ideology in order to detract from the ideology itself and the real issues it seeks to remedy.

>>15688559
>>15683730
You should actually read "Why I am not a white nationalist", instead of just stopping at "The TV says Hitler is evil". tl;dr he's not a White Nationalist because White Nationalism doesn't work, ergo the only people attracted to it are low status, which further prevents it from working.

He's telling you not to be a dumbass. Many, many, MANY others have said this. Hammer and Anvil put out a piece titled "White Nationalism Must Die", but I cannot actually find it, so have this instead:
https://hammerandanvilmyblog.wordpress.com/2011/05/30/a-brief-history-of-the-white-nationalist-movement/

tl;dr Stop being a dumbass.

>>15688559
>Moldbug was accused of doing that from the very start.
m not saying everyone needs to be a moldbuggian, or that racialism should be ignored, but let's be real. White Nationalist of the 00s were the stormfront crowd. they were redpilled on the JQ and black crime stats, but outside of that they weren't really substantive. Just same old Americanism/libertarianism but with White racialism. The value in someone like Moldbug was that he revised traditional (and for us, novel) ideas of statecraft and political theory. Ideas which offered an alternative to the future.

The reality is that Moldbug can't be a gatekeeper because he was more deep than White Nationalist.

have any of the retards here actually read UR? it's free, idiots

>>15673622
i think he mentioned him in a couple of instances in his blog

>>15688704
I unironically think that Moldbug should dictate all of his stuff. It would improve his speaking skills, and get the Faggy Fuentes zoomers on here to actually listen to literally anything he has to say.

>>15673642
>Leftist diogenes who still live off the system while pretending to be against the system

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT13kk8HDDo

>>15688673
I did read it, and I also read the comment section under the post, which is now gone since his site moved. Maybe it's on an archive somewhere, but people brought up valid criticisms of his points. The same is true of his "why I am not an anti-semite' post.

It is a bit rich of Mr. ceo-king cryptographic weaponry to accuse anyone else of having impractical political goals. White nationalism has more strategic potential than he thinks or at least thought it does. He himself doesn't like it for various reasons.

>>15688719
I don't disagree, but we're talking about a thirteen year old blog post dude. Things have changed. See the hammer and anvil link I posted.

>>15688719
>White nationalism has more strategic potential than he thinks or at least thought it does.
What have WN achieved politically?

>>15688673
In group preference in conjunction with group evolutionary strategy has historically been vital for success. Modern notions of multiculturalism are deeply new and have often been disastrous when put into practice. The only reason Moldbug is attempting to divert the Right away from such instinctive and vital strategies is because he knows he cannot have a dog in this fight whilst at the same time reaping the benefits of the western world. This is not to say that someone like Moldbug couldn't be racially conscious; it's simply that he couldn't personally espouse a racially conscious ideology in a white nation for obvious reasons.

You are a fool if you cannot see his personal vulnerability in this. His arguments against such nationalism are therefore bound to be in bad faith.

>>15688677
>a barely concealed rehash of Hoppean Monarchism
>novel
You are genuinely stupid if you think this.

>>15688771
I've already discussed my views on this, see >>15678502

>bad faith.
Who cares?

>>15688796
>who cares?
>I don't care if someone's leading me down the garden path
lol OK

>>15688766
Nothing. But the election of Trump for example is crypto-white nationalism, his detractors are entirely right about that. Trump has no plans to actually do anything White Nationalist, but he was still elected basically for standing up for the collective interest of white americans, mostly re immigration and trade tariffs.

In Europe it is less 'white' and more specific to whichever country, but even in Europe the category of white matters now. A Frenchman in the UK or Sweden is categorized as a white person.

>>15688809
You need to get out more. I get that you're hot under the collar because you're new and Nicky's pumped you full of piss and vinegar, but seriously just read the link in >>15688673. You're not the first to feel this way, RaHoWa isn't coming, neither is THE BOOG.

Curtis Yarvin......an interesting figure to keep an eye on, accept no substitutes

>>15688820
>because you're new
The fucking irony. Mold offers nothing that hasn't been said before by better members of the Right. Like I said in a previous post, "his" praxis is a barely disguised variation on libertarian Monarchism very much in the same vein as Hoppe. If you want a genuinely original take on contemporary monarchy, read Hoppe. There's a reason Moldbug can't publish anything outside of an obscenely small audience of delinquents and teckies. Moldbug is a, thankfully ineffectual, parasite.
>>15688834
How much is he paying you to shill him here?

Moldbug asks the question....Why Cthullu swims left?


well i answer this question with...if Cthullu doesn´t swim, he dies and it´s forgotten by time, Cthullu doesn´t have a choice in the matter, he´s a slave towards his eternal quest for power, the abstraction wins against the material

>>15688784
what did 00s white nationalist bring to the table?

>>15688869
In 2007 he offered plenty new, or at least fresh, as if you'll take the time to read the linked post in >>15688673 you'll see that the entire idea of "a return to monarchy", let alone something like TradCathism, would have been absolutely ludicrous in 2007. Does he not really say anything new? Yeah, nihil sub sole novum, "READ OLD BOOKS", that's the entire fucking point.

He doesn't go out with tiki torches and "agitate" or whatever? Yeah, because it's fucking worthless and gets nothing done. He's pretty fucking open about not thinking the system can be changed without it collapsing, and he's pretty fucking open that all he's doing is writing Mirrors for Princes for when the system does collapse.

Face it, you're just mad because you want to dress up in BASED Hugo Boss and go scream NIGGER at lefties in the streets, and Moldbug has you pegged and pointed out why that's dumb and isn't going to work.

>>15688771
>he couldn't personally espouse a racially conscious ideology in a white nation for obvious reasons.

Which obvious reasons?

>>15688910
That question has nothing whatsoever to do with that post.
>>15688923
>"a return to monarchy", let alone something like TradCathism, would have been absolutely ludicrous in 2007
Read "Democracy: The God That Failed" (a book published in 2001) you utter sperg. Nothing Moldbug brings to the table is new.
>2001 is OLD - I have to have all my ideas rehashed by olt roight twitter personalities in order to pay attention
retard
>hurr... well... white nationalism BAD
It's cute that this is your only response. This has nothing to do with what I stated, nor I am even seeking to defend "white nationalism" as an institution. Stop strawmanning.
>you want to dress up in BASED Hugo Boss
The irony is simply too much at this point. See this *totally badass* picture of your hero in a fucking biker jacket. Imagine thinking this looked good. Mold's out here looking like Rain Man with Treacher Collins.

>>15688958
He's a venture capitalist whose parasitical profits rely exponentially on the ability to exploit free trade (i.e. mass immigration). If you think you're going to be a king in one of his "Cathedrals" you're sorely mistaken.

>>15688817
>Nothing. But

>>15689017
What follows the but serves to show that there is opportunity for white nationalist politics.

>>15689011
So you think he's writing all these obscure blogs/books with the end goal to make money in a new system?

>>15689048
No. I think he's fantasising about making money in a new system. Much the same thing in abstract.

>>15688989
it does. WN only gave the same classical liberalism but with White people, without realizing that it was this liberalism which led to the current problems. A White monarch would have vested interest in long term White survival in a way elected officials don't. Moldbug's offering realistic alternatives to liberalism in the 21s century. WN didn't, as far as I remember.

>>15689031
How is Trump standing up to anything? How has white nationalism come close to achieving any of its goals?
If you think power in a democracy is obtained through winning elections, or even more stupidly, through holding rallies and LARPing as the system's enemies... then you haven't read Moldbug.

>>15689011
>If you think you're going to be a king in one of his "Cathedrals" you're sorely mistaken.
You're a troll.

>>15689079
Trump has slowed immigration and enacted tariffs, but it was more the symbolism of it. Hitler was elected you know.

>>15689065
>A White monarch would have vested interest in long term White survival
Tell that to the Russian Tsars... or Alexander the Great... or Augustus... or King John of England. If you think a monarch would somehow be less likely to take advantage of mass immigration to enrich themselves and their retainers, you are nuts. Are you forgetting that Christianity spread almost universally as a result of top down enforcement? First the king... then his subjects... and damn everyone of them who won't comply?

>>15689092
Symbolism? Symbolism of what? Hey, American, are joggers still burning down your cities, by the way?

>>15673343
Gay nigger retard who hates democracy and wants a Google dictatorship instead.

>>15688989
>>15689104
>NO! don't think outside the box! think EXACTLY as the jews want you to so they can shuffle you away!
>never oppose your masters!
God you fags are insufferable.

>>15689257
Moldbug is literally Jewish, you tard.

>>15689104
considering none of those leaders allowed mass migration into their homelands, i'm gonna say they wouldn't support it. Alexander the Great and Augustus are pre-Christian btw and Moldbug isn't an explicit supporter Christianity anyhow.

>people arguing over WNs or Moldtard
How about neither?

>>15689487
not really arguing, just having a discussion. Duginism is closer to Moldbuggianism than White Nationalism.

>>15689527
Not at all, and Dugin also doesn't write terribly.

>>15689614
>Not at all,
do you know anything about dugins work? He rejects nationalism and his ideas about 4pt and Eurasinism are neo-czarist.

>>15688549
Would you like to come up with an argument against that statement?

Reminder: Moldbug formulated the Pod, and the bugman plugged 24/7 into an electronic interface with pacifying drugs and soi grub at their disposal is a GOOD THING for him (Patchwork ch 3 if memory serves right). It's no wonder for a silicon valley libertarian from a liberal kike background.

>>15689627
>neo-czarist.
Not at all. He has some neoclassical ideas but I've never seen him advocate for a return to Tsarism. He's also very opposed to technology.

>>15673170
Moldbug has deep knowledge of American history and the communists in America. I always learn something new from him

>>15689829
> He has some neoclassical ideas but I've never seen him advocate for a return to Tsarism.
you don’t know about him, then.
> He's also very opposed to technology.
On the contrary, Dugin says to use cutting edge technology.

>>15689475
Way to miss the point. Also literally every one of those rulers was a supporter of mass immigration of one sort or another.

>>15689902
Colonizing =/ immigration.

>>15689911
I did not say it did.

Since we're talking about Dugin now. Anyone want to give me the elevator pitch for him? I don't know much about his work.

>>15690223
it's complete nonsense. It's like reading evola

>>15690223
Americanism, which includes atheism, materialism, capitalism, and individualism, has been a disaster for the human race. Russia needs to take charge and lead the fight against Americanism using ideologies which draw from sources outside of
A. Liberlism
B. Communism
C. Facism.

>>15690226
Would you like to provide some critique
>>15690252
And does he explicitly say what ideology it would be? Orthodox Neo-Czarism?

>>15676013
alt hype deals with this far better in his vid "stop respecting their narrative" which he shuts down the "yeah i AM a racist SO WHAT" crowd and obviously doesn't support trying to cripple yourself trying to refute their ever-changing definition of racism with your cool black friend or w/e.

Highly recommend moldbug fans check it out, there are definitely ways to disregard the narrative instead of supporting it or adopting the role of "the bad guy".

>>15690280
>And does he explicitly say what ideology it would be?
Probably what can be defined as post-modernist traditionalism. Dugin is big on reading/using methods like anthropology and sociology from a rightist perspective.
>Orthodox Neo-Czarism?
Orthodoxy plays a big role in orthodox states. Dugin's ideal would be each civilization reviving it's traditional religious principals, whether that's Orthodoxy, Catholicism, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Animism, ect. on a philosophical level the primary subject is the idea of Dasean ("being) by Heidegger.

>>15678874
not to Visigothic Spain whom they sold out to Muslims. Sure, it was never anything like the power they wield in late 18/19/20th century, but they absolutely had an impact. The difference being the ethnic (not racial, not yet) politics of the groups they interacted with was awake and so when they started shit they often got kicked out

One of Moldbug's clear pill installments would've addressed white nationalism, and presumably will be worked into his new book. I'll be interested in the chapter, it should be interesting discussion material anyways, in my experience "nazis" are way more intellectually open and debatable than progressives at the moment.
Personally reading Land made me stop being a White Nationalist. He made me realize that with the progression of capital being irreversible, the schizophretitization of traditional social structures basically precludes a plurality of ethnicities from being a stable system today. Even if we repeated the Johnson-Reed act and kicked thousands of citizens out of the country and raised white birthrates a ton, a future generation would just reverse it all and do way more damage than you could ever reverse with another nationalist zeitgeist... So basically White Nationalists lack a suitable praxis even if you agree with them completely.

>>15681034
Really good take on the (I'm gonna use the meme word here) 'rootless' naure of moldbug and people in his class, its something I see alot and I tihnk a lot of my peers fall into that category and have myself been tempted to see the world in such terms before. It is a soulless and empty style

>>15681479
based

>>15681524
where are your meds? clearly referring to one person and changing your tune now that you've been exposed as a paranoid lunatic

>>15688444
as other posters in the thread have pointed out he actively attacks tribal or racial politics, which is a problem to me, someone disadvantaged by a lack of tribal/racial politics/representation.

>>15688521
false

>>15688623
>gatekeeping white nationalism is bad
yes

>>15690678
He attacks it because it's not a viable force for revolution in the modern age.

>>15689111
you're either a troll, retard or underage b& to not see the symbolism of a Trump victory for white identity politics.

>>15680050
consoomer goods aside alcohol in the ussr were in short supply.

>>15689886
I've read Fourth Political Theory, read many articles by him, and listened to many of his lectures. He wants to ban the internet and is extremely concerned about the potential rise of transhumanism.

>>15678539
why anyone would care about him when land exist

>>15690725
it is for Browns, so I don't see why it wouldn't be for Whites.

>>15690226
Evola makes sense within the context of what he's trying to do. Dugin is just Warm Water, but schizophrenic. You can't just act in the interests of Russia (whatever that exactly entails), you have to have some big universal theory that unites everyone.

>>15690280
Yes, a Fourth Political Theory. His formulation for it is a political system based on Dasein. However it's in many ways more of a framework than a concrete ideology in the way of Marxism for example. It isn't dogmatic but replications of the earlier political theories sits outside it.

Curtis, can you please stop spamming threads about yourself? People's brains just aren't runny enough for your ideas to gain credibility, and the internet already has a surplus of self-important political bloggers.

>>15690832
It isn't though they are allowed to riot by the regime as a way of reinforcing the mythology of the regime and letting off excess rage in a time a crisis. If the state actually wanted them gone they'd be gone in a heartbeat.

>>15690487
Explain to me this, which I really don't understand. If everything in your post is correct, and there is in fact some way to alter the current political system, why is it incompatible with WN? A lot of people are dunking on it in this thread but what reason is there that your ideal political society MUST not be composed of primarily white individuals?

Maybe, because WN/Wignatism/nazi's get conflated its assumed they follow some political frame outside of racial awareness. Nonetheless, "white identity" doesn't really need any specific system, if its pro-white or 14 words or w/e you can be a republic/monarchy/dictatorship and still fulfill white racial politics. Obviously there's the argument that a governing system X will always lead to the dissolution of white identity like in the USA, even though immigration was for "whites of good character" that didn't stop our current reality from happening, so republics don't work. But, if you tear down "liberalism", are a reactionary or somehow create a Hoppean society, what's to stop that from also being pro-white, I don't see why these can't be done in concert. Other anons feel free to reply, genuinely curious

>>15690854
>Any positive thread about a contemporary writer must have been posted by that writer

>>15690766
And that's the whole fucking problem: you care about "symbolism" and not about actual action. Yeah, Trump was a win for White Identity as a symbol, and birthrates go down, crime goes up, Mexicans get amnesty, no wall (no, using taxpayer dollars to buy rebar from an Israeli steel magnate does not count as a "wall"), and nothing actually changed from Obama except now you have some BASED TWEETS that Raise Awareness for your Symbols.

You're trying to play by the rules of a rigged game. "Raising awareness" only works if you've got power to act in the name of that "awareness". We don't. That's the entire point of Moldbug, to stop playing by the Left's game.

>>15690863
who are you referring to with "state" here, because I doubt Trump admin could just roll up and start gulaging blacks. I assume you're alluding to some other nebulous entity like "the system"

>>15690893
>wow, we get it you drew that hammerhead wojack,just because you drew it doesn't mean you have to post it in this thread. Gosh.

>>15690906
If a group of Proudboys tried to start tearing down statues they'd all be in jail within the hour

>>15690882
Not the guy you're responding to but
>your ideal political society MUST not be composed of primarily white individuals?
I don't thin anyone stated that. Moldbug has openly said that White and Asian societies function better than multi-racial societies but it doesn't matter if the system that controls your society is liberalism you will degenerate into degenerate consumption

>>15690863
This is a ridiculous take that is impossible to prove.

>>15690925
Sure it is, the people who defended their homes, stores, and neighborhoods are in jail, and the looters aren't.

Or are you seriously going so WigNat that you're actually denying Woke Capital is a thing?

>>15690915
I didn't draw this wojack. I stole it.
>>15690906
Trump doesn't have any power. You should look up Moldbug's concept of the Cathedral if you want to know what I'm eluding to.

>>15690925
Just look at the way that our government, media, and police are handholding the rioters and ask yourself would Wignats get the same treatment.
The answer is no.

>>15690925
>tearing down statues of people the system has deemed heretics isn't a punishable act
>defending those statues is an act punishable by jail time
The system is intentionally rigged against Whites. You cannot win by playing by its rules.

>>15690938
Where I live (Rochester, NY) more looters are in in jail than any other group involved in the protests. Nationally, I don't know what the percentages are, but you're implying some trend like its obvious, but I don't think that trend actually exists.

>>15690992
I think you're being disingenuous

>>15690898
ah, you've misinterpreted me, I am no fan of LAW AND ORDER posting while innocents get killed and statues get toppled. Actually, I agree with basically everything you've said here. My contentions are that symbolism is still valuable, and that whites still have power in America. If EVERY white in the US of A was racially conscious and pro-segregation or balkanization or really any radical political action then there would be change, at least of some kind. You're right about no meaningful change from Obama -> Trump, I'll tack on how "the swamp" has not even been splashed around let alone drained. If you look into political groups/individuals and trends going on right now you'll see a lot more people believing that "politics" is NOT the answer and that "muh silent majority, our voices will be heard in the ballot box" is a LIE. I say that that is due in part to the symbolism of Trump, the supposed outsider, the hope for Republicans and anti war and anti-immigration, and watching that symbol fail. The symbol of Trump failing has power, and awakened some people who thought that a rigged system could be taken down from the inside. Ergo, the symbol had power otherwise its death would have been meaningless

If that doesn't work just read people reacting to statues of George Washington getting destroyed, that doesn't do a single damn thing and yet it's clearly meaningful to left and right wing groups

>>15690992
Well no shit you're not seeing it, you live in one of the Places That Matter. The people where you're from are the ones calling the shots.

>>15690959
The fastest way to get protests against the police to calm down is not to use the police.
The fastest way to get Wignats (I just heard of this term, so I don't really know what it is) to calm down if they did the same thing would probably be to arrest them.

>>15690941
I know I was making fun of the poster you replied to, implying posting anything meant you had some personal stake in the manner (only Moldbug would start a moldbug thread, only the drawer of an image would post it) it's silly

>>15691021
>The fastest way to get protests against the police to calm down is not to use the police.
They haven't calmed down at all from non-action by the police though. They've raged on for weeks being supplied by the media with one new cause after another. They only back down when met with actual (extremely restrained) force from the police.

Wignat is short for White Nationalist btw

>>15691021
>The fastest way to get protests against the police to calm down is not to use the police.
yes it is. Appeasement doesn't work

>>15691061
What course of action should police have taken to minimize the traction of the 'defund the police' movement? You really think it is 'more police'?

>>15690882
I'll answer your question and than ramble my own ideas
>what reason is there that your ideal political society MUST not be composed of primarily white individuals?
for me, (who's not the anon you replied to) my takeaway is that White nationalism lacks power to adequately address contemporary realities.

imo the solution has to be marrying concepts of "Whiteness" to a transcendent principal which gives it generational spanning power which overrides the will of global capital. But how can WN"s go about this? Neopaganism is bunk that not even self-professed neopagans believe, and Christianity is infiltrated by the enemy. It's certainly possibly to marry ethnonationalism to Christian transcendence, based on the fact that this was the default form of Christianity for 1,950 years and had theology to back it up. But the question arises "can you substitute ethnicity for Whiteness?" Even if you managed to do it, it'd risk being dubious and cringy like "Positive" Christianity" on the grounds that placing value on "Whiteness" itself implies the "more White" Europeans are better, despite this not being the case and in many instances the opposite being true. It would quickly devolve into a massive larp with no transcendent power.

so what's the best way to marry Whites with a transcendent destiny which gives them justification to exist at the expense of GDP and endless economic growth? imo it would associating Whiteness/White people with a specific polity that has a divine mission. Example could be Russia, a new Holy Roman Empire in Central Europe, a new Austria-Hungary or a new Roman Empire in the Mediterranean. For this to be the case, you'd need divine monarchism again as well formal imperialism.

I suppose another alternative is anarcho-primitivism of people like ted kaczynski and varg. I guess all Whites can go back to living like hunter-gatherers and we wouldn't' have these problems. Is that realistic, or even more desirable than the alternative I lied out? No. Not even is it not-realistic, it seems all around a worse scenario.

>>15691102
The police are an organ of the state and the people in control of the state has nothing to fear from these rioters. So, they don't have to do anything.

>>15691134
I think some of those people will be losing their jobs. Maybe that doesn't count. It would for me.

>>15691177
The state doesn't give a shit about some cop losing his job. The Cops, the rioters, the wignats, etc are all just playing roles in a fun little LARP that stops people from looking at the system itself.

>>15691017
I apologize for misunderstanding you. I don't disagree with your sentiment, I just feel it's silly caring about symbols if you don't have a specific goal (Holocaust Denial is a big one because it leads to a direct attack on the fundamental basis of Liberalism), or if you're not capable of building symbols.

>>15691021
>>15691049
WigNat is short for Wigger Nationalist. Skinheads, WATT PARR, etc.

>>15691112
A lot of what your saying holds true. An argument many WN's will give is that ofc it works, it was the standard mode of european civilization for thousands of years. That America began as WN. And here we are, it didn't stop this, so even if we 'revive' these ideas how can we ensure it doesn't devolve again, or not even take proper route as its already been neutered. Still, I'd rather give it a shot, have the chance to live in that society for however long it lasted and then fall again, than do nothing at all (not that anyone here is suggesting we do nothing). I wonder about how effectively we can marry the transcendent destiny with a given polity or divine mission, considering this was what the fourth Reich was all about. Reviving the German (Holy Roman) empire for a thousand year Reich. If I could escape to fantasies for a moment it would be a united white nation (or nations) explicitly tied to space travel and colonization, as opposed to varg or pagan larp, but that's my ramble and I am not basing that on anything, and likely could do with some more reading. Anyway, thanks for the response, gave me a lot to think about

>>15691251
no worries my guy, I definitely see where you're coming from. I hope there will be a glorious symbol to rally behind in the future, even if it seems like a total pipe dream :/

>>15690598
>clearly referring to one person
Yes, this was never in question, tard. Now stop calling your own posts based. It's sad.

>>15690893
>a contemporary writer

>>15691442
>calling your own post based
Uhh those meds? Guess you didn't take them.

>>15691460
Do you not know what the word "Contemporary" means?

>>15691463
>inspect element
Wow, shit for brains, you can use a computer. Congratulations. Why were you even replying to a post that was over a day old, you sad fuck?

>>15691487
He's a gloried blogger. He can hardly be classed as a writer.

>>15691499
Oh so you're attaching unnecessary emotional weight and qualifiers to the word writer in order to be pedantic.

>>15691519
He's nothing more than a blogger. I am sorry this fact upsets you so much ;)

>>15691488
why would I look to see how old a post is? I see it, I reply. Are you coming back day after day to check upon posts you made forever ago, in an attempt to prove a grand conspiracy of one single lit poster fucking with you? And you call me sad, damn.

>>15691533
Every blogger is a writer. You're being a pedant.

>>15691540
>why would I look to see how old a post is?
Why else would you reply to one post out of over three hundred that's in the middle of the fucking thread, sad fuck?

>>15691548
No they're not. They're called bloggers for a reason. The term "writer" implies you've been published by someone worthwhile, which Moldbug hasn't been. Nor will he ever.

>>15691559
because I read threads from top to bottom and don't spend every day on lit so this was the first time I browsed this thread, schizo

>>15691571
>because I read threads from top to bottom
And you reply to one post out of hundreds regarding a conversation that had clearly ended? Sure thing, sad fuck.

>>15691569
>The term "writer" implies you've been published by someone worthwhile
That's not an inherent qualifier for the word writer. You're attaching that onto the word in order to be a pedant because you don't have anything else to say.

>>15691599
OK, chinless. Whatever makes you feel better about your blog.

>>15691593
>implying I replied to only one post

I make sure everyone on this board knows my opinions on any conversation regardless of when it took place, ah, that's the real world calling, time to go.

But don't forget those meds, seriously

>>15691619
>I make sure everyone on this board knows my opinions on any conversation
And yet you still managed somehow to miss the context completely, you gurning spastic.

>>15691618
and still nothing of substance

>>15691652
>and still nothing of substance
You keep banging this drum anytime someone dares to criticise you. You cannot even manage to attempt to defend yourself. Sad.

>>15691663
Your "criticism" is the equivalent of calling someone a poopoo head.

>>15691676
If you're going to make hollow posts like "no substance," you can expect people to tell you to fuck off and/or start insulting your little hero's godawful appearance. That level of discussion is about what you're worth.

>>15691712
Your first post was an ad hom based around the fact that you don't know what the word writer means and you haven't done anything other than dig in on that position and call Moldbug an icky-doodoo head. You argue like a child.

>>15691752
I stand by my claim that calling him a writer is absurd. It devalues the term for the reasons already outlined. I am sorry this burns your asshole the way it so clearly does. That was not my first post.

Revolutionary pamphleteers always go through the major publishing houses or they're just fakers.

>>15691794
>Revolutionary
>slimily rehashing the Libertarianism of Hoppe for the internet generation
*yawn*

>>15691769
>You stand by your claim that you're a pedant with a poor grasp of language
Aight

>>15691874
>by your claim that you're a pedant
That was your claim, you silly little nonce.

>>15691897
>Being too stupid to understand when you're being insulted

>>15690882
anon you were replying to
The problem, basically, is that the extent to which two populations will be able to maintain their genetic differences depends on the amount of genetic drift between them. This genetic drift is a function of travel distance, hence why two populations separated by the Sahara or Himalayas can grow to be very different. Modern technology has created boats and planes that have obliterated travel distance.
In other words, the conditions which allowed different races to emerge have been removed, thus preventing them from being indefinitely maintained. Even though any given regime can maintain a white population, every regime eventually dies. The maintenance regime can halt decay, the liberal regime can cause massive decay. You just can't undo decay faster than you can implement it.

>>15691910
>being too stupid to understand when someone is calling your bluff

>>15691920
>everything eventually dies so why bother in the first place
lamest possible take

>>15691928
What bluff?

>>15691945
>What bluff?
holy shit...

>>15691957
Seems like you've gotten so frustrated that you're just spouting recycled no u retorts but please feel free to enlighten me on what I'm bluffing about?

>>15691985
Your claim that I stated I was a pedant - or do you now think you are me? Are you having a psychotic break? Do you need me to call someone?

>>15692018
You're really dumb so I'll explain my statement to you. I was calling you a pedant via green text for comic effect because you're obviously arguing in bad faith on a point that is purely pedantic.

>>15692049
>for comic effect
Yes, and I called your bluff by treating the post as if it were serious.
>you're really dumb
the ironing is delicious

>>15692064
You don't know what the word bluff means either. You're trying to regain some dignity with this no u fu schtick but it just comes off as really pathetic.

>>15692083
"Calling your bluff" makes perfect sense in that context. You just have poor language skills. I would guess this was due to a head injury by the consistently incensed way you post.

>>15692102
>You just have poor language skills.
Oh look another no u

>>15692113
Keep seething, sweetie. Maybe your head will stop hurting one day if you do?

>>15692128
>More recycling phrases without saying anything

>>15692140
>recycling
Do you know what that word means? Point me to where that phrase was used before.

>>15692153
How about using seething as an argument? Using this site incorrectly has melted your brain.

>>15692169
I mean the phrase about your brain hurting, my dear little spastic.

>>15692173
More pedantry

>>15692180
>More pedantry

>>15692194

>>15692215
>Tim and Eric

>>15692262
>Has file full of numbered reaction images labeled onions
You spend all your time and never read anything, right?

>>15692294
>14 is a BIG number
imagine thinking this

>>15692310
imagine having to fall back on memes so much that you need 14 onions themed reaction images

>>15692317
So you're sticking with this whole "14 is a big number!" thing. What's it like having water on the brain, friend? You're on an anonymous image board. People are going to save images. The fact that this concept enrages you is almost cute.

>>15692351
You're the only person that's mad here

>>15692365
>n-no u
loving every laugh

>>15692376
>Using a no u to say I said no u
I wouldn't be responding to you in this bumplocked thread if I wasn't having fun.

>>15692388
it sure looks that way you seething faggot

>>15692397
Did you run out of things to say?

>>15692406
this level of discourse is about all your worth

>>15692425
So you ran out of things to say?

>>15692406
>>15692439
are you an automated message or what?

>>15692445
Nope, just bored. I'm listening to podcast between Moldbug and some Ethiopian orthodox guy talking about the history of Ethiopia while playing with you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKdOoR4zhOc
Here's the link if you'd like to listen to it too. Maybe it will give you something to actually talk about.

>>15692515
Sure, anon. You're the one who's playing here. That face is just so ugly. How does he do it?

>>15692521
Still nothing but ad homs?

>>15689911
>>15689475
Read Ancient City by Coulanges.
Monarchy and democrazy are not the way to go.
They, in a way, go hand in hand.
Kings make use of the underclass to further their goals. Rarely do they follow through once in the seat.
This guy >>15689104 probably understands.
Of course monarchy (strictly European minded) would be preferable to the mixed ( mixed with different forms of governing styles) structure we have now. Such a mixed constitution never works out and rarely lasts.
Giambattista Vico would like some aspects but in the end he would despair our current affairs.
Coulanges outlines this high-low vs middle eternal battle of decay. But of course I do not support our current middle class, they are decadent and barely useful. Aristotle is wrong on this account. Though I do t know what the middle class of his day was like, though I could guess.

>>15689065
Another faggot who doesn't honestly approach his "enemies" but only uses the worst of our worst followers so as to ignore the more complex and further developed strains. Like Peterson misunderstanding zizek and Marx.

>>15691112
Religion comes after Action. We are in an age of myth making. It will not come about by sitting down and trying to find an "emperical religion".

>>15689668
If human interactions are parasitical then we wouldn't engage in them on such a scale

>>15692534
Oh come on, it's a statement of fact.

>>15692215
Bet you like h3h3 to fag.

>>15692576
Never said he was attractive but what does it have to do with anything he says?

>>15692578
I don't find that guy funny. I did find Tim and Erik funny growing up but haven't watched them in a long time.

>>15692590
physiognomy is a reality, anon

>>15691928
>>15691910
>>15691897
>>15691874
>>15691769
>>15691752
>>15691712
>>15691676
>>15691663
>>15691652
>>15691618
>>15691599
>>15691569
>>15692215
>>15692194
>>15692180
>>15692173
>>15692169
>>15692153
>>15692140

Do you even know what you're arguing about?

>>15692600
Nah. There's plenty of smart ugly people and plenty of dumb beautiful people.

>>15692598
Ok good. Nice taste then, they have some good stuff but I find hyde funnier. Always been a Patrice, opie and Anthony guy. Most of the cellar crowd have become massive sellouts.

>>15692602
We're not arguing about anything since he didn't have a point in the beginning. We're both just calling each other names to waste time on the internet.

>>15692620
A different kind of ugliness. Not those who are ugly in the way that he is.

>>15692631
I already made my points earlier in this thread. You're just angry that I called a worm a worm.

>>15692640
Ok explain your defined system of physiognomy. How do you identify malevolent ugliness as opposed to benevolent ugliness. Are there similar categories for beauty? What data do you have to back up this idea?

>>15692652
Your point was that you pretended not to know what the word writer meant for a joke and then wouldn't back down when the joke fell flat.

>>15692691
No, that wasn't a joke. He isn't a writer; he's a blogger.

>>15692712
Ok, we'll go in circles again. You attached unwarranted emotional weight to the term writer in order to say that someone you don't like (you've still yet to give a single reason why other than he's an ugly jew) isn't a writer. He's famous for his writing and his writing is whats being discussed in this thread about the new book that he's working on.

Also, like I said before, all bloggers are writers. Writer isn't some romantic honorific that is only bestowed on people that you think are the next Plato.

>>15692756
>You attached unwarranted emotional weight
No. That was you when you first insisted on replying. Take the fucking hint.

>>15692756
The term "writer" is generally used to refer to someone who writes professionally (i.e. has had their work published through a reputable publishing house). Bug is a glorified blogger.

>>15692775
>How dare you reply to my post!

>>15692801
see >>15692792

>>15692792
I disagree with the idea that the prestige of your publisher determines whether or not you're a writer. You're adding qualifications onto the term.

>>15692861
Him having even 1 (one) halfway decent publisher would probably have helped your case.

>>15692870
It doesn't relate to the use of the term at all. I doubt you'd say the same thing about someone you're a fan of. Or would you say that you would never be a fan of someone who didn't have a famous publisher? Because that makes you pseud.

>>15692882
>It doesn't relate to the use of the term at all.
OK, Mr. Literal.

>>15692893
So, you admit that you misused the term out of convenience?

This thread is going to die soon btw so this is probably your last chance to say why you actually dislike Moldbug. Since you still haven't done that yet.

>>15692924
>So, you admit that you misused the term out of convenience?
No, you retard. Do you not understand what the term literal means a pejorative?

>>15692936
*as a

>>15692924
>why you actually dislike Moldbug.
read the thread, nonce

>>15692936
>Do you not understand what the term literal means a pejorative?
Where?

>>15692959
>>15692893

>>15692957
There's actual criticism in this thread. None of it has come from him.

>>15692962
I mean in what jargon is literal a pejorative?

>>15692963
who?

>>15692970
The guy that I was no uing with in these posts>>15692602