/lit/ - Literature

They are the archetypal counter-elites. They exist throughout history. The masses are a narrative prop turned revolutionary tool during periods of extreme intra-elite competition.

You seem to think you've made some sort of profound point but you haven't. Theories on class structure and whatnot don't rely on the idea that every working class person agrees with them.

The working class isn't all some sort of auth-right monolith either. Honestly you come across as someone with very little experience of working class people

I also fail to see what existentialism has to do with any of this

manual labourers are retards though, their opinions are ultimately irrelevant

>>15669574
They just think the Working Class doesn’t know any better or are racist and that is why they “Vote against their own best interest”. They don’t see that many of their ideas wouldn’t benefit them. For example here in the USA very few of the things Democrats are pushing would actually help working class people. It would benefit people who don’t work instead.

>>15669592
Fuck of poofta

>>15669574
i thought they stopped thinking that and have gone for non-whites and other minorities instead

>>15669574
>Why do intellectuals (who tradies fucking hate), think they speak for them

Because they are delusional narcisists?
Why even make a thread for something so obvious and not /lit/ related?

They're brainwashed.

Please show me where Jean Paul Sartre said ''I speak for the working class''

>>15669598
Yeah, in aus, there is a growing divide within the labour party between the worker party roots, and the new age 'leftism'

>>15669619
>>15669592
> Was a life long Marxist
> Didn't think he spoke for 'the people'

>>15669630

Yeah nah, don't dodge the question

Show me where he said ''All working class people agree with me and I speak for them''.

THe basis of marxism was never ''this is right because a lot of working class people agree with me''. Most people aren't brainlets who change their views to fit whatever other people think.

>>15669592
You sound autistic and like every example of a working class life youve heard of you got from your professor. I highly doubt any actual working class people i know would want some faggot like you speaking for them.

>>15669574
They think they know better.
They would probably know better if they weren't peddling leftist half-truths.

>>15669649
Didn't he write in socialist papers trying to bring about socialist reform (to the degree that was taking place in China and Russia). Why wouldn't he want to change their opinions?

>>15669653

Actually my experience of working class life comes from being working class and growing up in the most rural and deprived part of my country.

The way you speak about ''working class people I know'' suggests you view them as very other and different to yourself. You seem like someone who had little experience of working class people so when you meet some and they happen to agree with you you fly into this weird fetishistic euphoria where ''based working class people are anti-intellectual just like me''.

I don't have such a complex because the majority of people I've known have been working class and I know they have varied opinions

>>15669687
Nice larp

>>15669687
How many would agree with this?

>>15669679

>Still not answering the question

Where did he say ''All working class people agree with me and I speak for them''. Now please

EIther that or just admit you're a brainlet who is making huge assumptions about ''intellectuals'' despite not reading them

>>15669702
Taking my bait
> Who's the brainlet now

>Comes to a board which talks almost exclusively about intellectuals to be anti-intellectual

You should have expected this OP, prepare yourself for a bad time

>>15669574
Why do Americans think they will ever be able to understand left ideology? I understand that brainwashing precludes self-awareness, but surely they realize America is a failed experiment (which will soon come to an end), right? You'd think that would be enough to make them less willing to make this sort of generalizations about things they know nothing about.

>>15669708

>I was just pretending to be retarded

>>15669711
Implying the working class don't read Guenon and Evola

>>15669722

You know the bar is so low on this fucking board I genuinely don't know if you're shitposting or not

>>15669720

>>15669696
that's a book for middle class libtards, you know that

>>15669696
>>15669738

People in general dont agree with that book, even middle class libtards think it's surreal

>>15669713
I'm not a mutt friend

It's funny you cite existentialism as an example of an ''intellectual'' belief that the working class supposedly rejects because the principle of ''we are not born with any inherent essence'' is something most people would agree with nowadays, even if they don't know it came from Sartre.

Like do you think norf fcs are going round like '' 'ate existentialism me''

Marxist theory did a great deal of damage to every field of the humanities
Historiography is the only one which has shown signs of recovery recently while sociology and anthropology are pretty much dead and refuse to accept new data and analysis due to Marxism
Their utter conviction that they're right has created an echo chamber
My recommendation is to stay away from non-empirical humanities

>>15669765
Nah I just choose Sartre because I just imagine him trying to relate to a mechanic and being called a faggot

>>15669777

bit mean desu

>>15669763
In every way but physical, you are a mutt

>>15669765
>''we are not born with any inherent essence'' is something most people would agree with nowadays
Liberals maybe. Do you think the average person knows or cares what an essence is?

>>15669791

>The average person is a retard

They might not use the language of essentialism/existentialism but they have a concept of it

>>15669798
Mate, most people think existentialism = nihilism

>>15669791
It is not that hard of a concept to grasp

>>15669788
One cannot simply escape the mutt, it pervades all culture

>>15669814
What?

>>15669798
No most people just don't care to waste their time with the pointless things we enjoy reading about.

>>15669574
nihilism + an intense urge to find a class to be a hero to (even if it's unrequited, feckless and reckless)

>>15669592
>The working class isn't all some sort of auth-right monolith either
It wasn't but it's progressively becoming more and more so. In Eastern Europe, which has no party loyalty and had a kind of fresh start in the 1990's, the political right uses conservative/reactionary rhetorics scooping majority of the working class vote, the left meanwhile is most popularly represented by dying parties made out of ex-communists, who are usually very in-line with the right as far as politics goes(only their rhetoric differs) and "young" left that's typically far more capitalistic and only uses fancy slogans associated with various left-leaning movements. If you look at the west - France due to political failure of several successive governments now turned from country where market liberal conservatives were opposing social democrats to a country where FN and EM have taken the places similar to those their contemporaries took in Eastern Europe. Nobody talks about what Republican leader has to say anymore, nobody cares what their programs are, all that matters is FN and EM. In Italy similar situation has occurred(probably with more volatile "left wing"), in Great Britain despite deep party loyalty the last elections have shown that Northern England isn't Labour stronghold anymore. Even in the US, Trump's rhetorics during his first campaign were more anticapitalistic than that of the Democratic party - you'd think that candidate from a party that is typically supported by the unions would be more sceptical towards free trade agreements and more eager to introduce tariffs, but what happened was the exact opposite.

Left-right dichotomy is at this point just an extremely arbitrary category as all the parties with perspectives for the future have taken stances that are in conflict to the traditional understanding of it.

>>15669823
Most people I've talked to confuse existentialism with nihilism (how, Rick and Morty is so existential)

Personally, I've noticed a lot of workers tend to be socially conservative, but with some socialist economic values. But uni leftists seem to really piss them off.

>>15669847

The dislike has more to do with personal grievances than an actual ideological difference

>>15669834

I'd say that whilst right-wing populism is becoming the dominant ideology - especially in places like England - the idea that the working class are anti-intellectual poltards is still way off.

I'd suggest that it's not really an embrace of right-wing values - these people haven't actually become more conservative in any way I can tell - but an embrace of populism. In Scotland the SNP has sucked up basically all of Labours old working class base by using left wing populist and nationalist rhetoric.

>>15669839
Rick and Morty is ultimately not nihilistic. Rick goed on and on about how nothing matters but acts contrary to that all the time

>>15669896
it's obviously about race. They don't like being told their race is evil and that they should be replaced

>>15669839
>>15669901

The point is that nihilism rots your brain

>>15669896
Surely you have to admit that the stereotypical leftist who talks about privilege and wokeness plays a role in fueling that populism as well

>>15669592
>>15669619
>>15669687
>>15669896
being an avatarfag is against the rules

>>15669906
Nobody is trying to replace white people you drooling retard

>>15669906

Yeah the thing is literally no major politician has said anything even resembling that - it's a paranoid fantasy.

It also doesn't explain what happened in places like Scotland, where people have almost uniformly embraced the SNP despite the SNP being one of the most ''progressive'' parties and Scotland being historically more racist than England.

>>15669927

I just have a lot of watamote reaction images anon im not an ''avatarfag''

>>15669839
It's not necessarily confusion, they can be essentially construed as the same, namely the absence of non-anthropogenic meaning.

That existentialists believe they've solved nihlism with anthropogenic meaning doesn't mean that anyone else has to agree with them, and if you don't, it's still just run-of-the-mill nihilism.

>>15669946

>>15669574
Pretty bad thread to be honest.
Not even meme tier.
Anyway, fuck Sartre

>>15669912

Yes and the right-wing populist conjure the image of the woke liberal quite often. However I don't think it's the main reason and Scotland ultimately shows that they will tolerate a certain level of woke as long as they also get their populism and nationalism.

>>15669980
Not cool man

>>15669946
and

>>15669946
Bringing class consciousness to a race war is like bringing a knife to a gun fight. Even most leftists act is as race is real and the most important political factor. They will get angry at you for colourblind racism if you try to bring back the old raceblind socialism or liberalism

>>15669979
The second one is about voting racists out of office

>>15669946
et

>>15669979
>>15670003
Isn't it amazing that the /pol/tard can see that the thing he holds most dear is being sacrificed, but fails to see that the culprit is capitalism, which needs an endless circulation and supply of inhumanly cheap labor?
The /pol/tard will defend capitalism to the death while whining about its consequences, it's really funny.

>>15670020
Brace for
>not REAL capitalism, REAL capitalism hasn't been tried yet

What is some working-class lit?

>>15670003
This is about replacing a shrinking workforce in countries with aging populations

>>15670020
Todays Leftists are for capitalism and consumerism

>>15670032
The effect being that whites are replaced with nonwhites. Notice they also shame people for having children in white countries.
>>15670020
Are you admitting that they do openly state they are replacing white people?

>>15670018
And this is an article about shifting demographics with an unfortunate title. Really, if there was a plan to replace white people, would there be articles like this? Ones which seems tailor-made to get you and your ilk worked into a frenzy?

Honestly this should go on >>>pol
It’s getting tiring seeing leftcucks and poltards be at each others throats on the LITERATURE board. I feel like jannies are okay with it though for some weird reason

>>15670047
>Notice they also shame people for having children in white countries
Do they? Anyway, what's the end game of this? Why bother getting rid of white people?

>>15670052
The pro-immigration parties also constantly demean white people. You can try to argue plausible deniability but nobody buys it.

>>15670065
I don't know but they're quite open about it

>>15670020
>>15670025
I would say be careful what you wish for because full employment could be achieved under capitalism, and without slave labor too. If you don’t think so then you lack imagination. I’m not even saying I want this to happen but to pretend it can’t is a cope.

>>15669595

So exactly why are many intellectuals so keen on advocating for them?

>>15670033
Only those living in your head, RENT-FREE, like the squatters they are.
>>15670047
>Are you admitting that they do openly state they are replacing white people?
That was my first post in this thread, and personally, I don't give a fuck, I'm just saying that playing along with your premise, capitalism is the root cause of the problem, and it is very strange that most /pol/tards share your sentiment on replacement but salivate over and defend the capitalism that is doing it.

>>15670096
Poland and Israel and Japan are capitalist and have way less immigration

>>15670101
And are fully dependent on larger economies which need replacement migration to keep labor available and dirt cheap. You don't get to do nationalism and worldwide capitalism sweaty, they're antinomous.

>>15670127
We will see, this period of mass immigration to all these countries is anomalous. There isnt any reason to suspect its indefinite continuance. Also if your alternative is something like China, you'll find many Fascists would be fine with a China-like system.

>>15669574
Huh? I don't speak for blue-collar workers. Fuck them.

>>15669574
>Religious
That's regional. I know very few people who attend church(I'm working class)
>Hate commies
Disdain is more common where I am. More 'that's retarded' than 'that's evil'
>despise political correctness
More often than not
>hate intellectuals
Not true at all where I am. Most don't have a strong opinion, except on the uselessness of things like gender studies.

Now if I drive an hour out to the first town that's not part of the greater Metro for my city, that changes in a hurry and things veer from center-left to conservative very quickly

>>15669574
Petty bourgeois

>>15670223
Yeah you’re right about religiosity. Immigrant and older workers definitely tend to be more religious, while the younger ones kind of laugh about it

>>15670285
The religious working class are generally the most sinfull and degenerate of religious people.