/lit/ - Literature

>>15535633
based

shankara is a cryptobuddhist

>>15535633
may Allah have mercy upon him

The one good thing about the riotposting is that it's finally banished most of the Guenonposters from the board.

Proof Islam is the 3rd heritage of Europe.

why

Read Guenon's Crisis of the modern world

This photo is unsettling.

>>15535633
Guenon is a nobody. Islam is a joke. Muslims are like social justice warriors, constantly virtue signalling (look at me being a good muslim-behaviaur). What about this: can guenon spammers start to read the bible? Or are u to lazy to read a book?

>>15535633
i used to always think these threads were about Guenoun, and i was impressed that /lit/ had read a book as obscure as "A Semite" and was actually capable of overcoming its anti-semitism to appreciate the bizarrely good prose and hints of feederism.
then for the first time i actually paid attention to the name and it turns out i just cant read.
everyone should read "A Semite."

>>15535640
>shankara is a cryptobuddhist
Nihilists go back.

>>15535633
bump pbuh

>>15536472
based guenon pbuh inshallah

bump

bump for guenon

Based. Is there any chart of Guenon?

>>15536692
>requesting your own chart
just post it you pathetic schizo.

>>15536717
not the guy you are thinking

>>15535633

>>15536804
the fuck

How did he do it bros? How did he retroactively refute so many?

>>15536830
He solved philosophy

>>15536883
based

>>15536692
here's the chart brother, inshallah

>>15536804
What did he mean by this?

>>15536692
holy. Is that his wife

>>15537146
They both are

bump

>>15536899
checked and saved

>>15535749
It also proved him correct

>>15537569
based

how do traditionalists cope with the ongoing deterioration initiated by the agents of decay/nihilism? is it seriously just to accept time naturally will bring us back around to the golden age (eventually), and not organize or do anything to bring about a restored order? even temporary, just to have our current lives and society reflect the perfect mold of the gods better? ive seen this disposition a lot and i think it's retarded and cucked. savitri devi calls it 'man above time' and i respect there are sage individuals who can escape the cycle bonded to matter entirely, but then there are those 'men against time'.

>>15537589
>how do traditionalists cope with the ongoing deterioration initiated by the agents of decay/nihilism?

"Those who might be tempted to give way to despair should realize that nothing accomplished in this order can ever be lost, that confusion, error and darkness can win the day only apparently and in a purely ephemeral way, that all partial and transitory disequilibrium must perforce contribute towards the greater equilibrium of the whole, and that nothing can ultimately prevail against the power of truth

- Rene Guenon

>>15537714
based

>>15537515
nice image asshole

>>15537714
What an empty quote when dissected into pieces.

>praise inaction!
>Nothing evil can touch the realm of Spirit

So just watch and do nothing when pedophiles, all sorts of trannsexual pedophile murders fuck children in this world and elite pedophiles fuck children on little st. James Island

>>15537820
plato was a political activist, the pythagoreans all participated in the material world and advanced societies in magna graecia toward a more holy reflection of the eternal, etc. this all seems like a colossal cope, every great sage and holy man has tried to rekindle a spark of the divine and impel it onto the rest of the world. muhammed, jesus, you name it. buddha i guess not so much

>>15537831
How do you escape Modernity my friend? Convert to Islam/Sufism like Guénon?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/24/world/middleeast/mosque-attack-egypt.html

This happened near to the Mosque where Guénon lived in Egypt. Most likely, Guénon also had prayed at that particular Sufi mosque.

>>15537840
whats your point? that the derrorists are men who want to impose a religious order rather than escape material reality all together?

>>15537852
You're a fucking cuck, you would let them rape your daughter too because Jesus said turn the other cheek? You sick fuck

>>15537872
who said anything about that you weirdo? why does traditionalism bring out all sorts of weird pathologies in people who argue against it?

>>15535633
will somebody explain how he went from gnostic to hindu to muslim?

The gnostic to hindu part doesn't seem that weird of a skip at all, the cosmology isn't toooooo far away, but going back to a abrahamite religion? Did he become a gnostic muslim even?

>>15539040
he was a sufist, no idea how that fits in. i assume he was inducted into a sufist order in his youth and then when he decided to follow a more traditional path that was just the obvious choice

>>15539040
>but going back to a abrahamite religion?
Sufism is like an eastern philosophy enclosed with the grain of Islam as its kernal. The closet parallels to it are Hindu philosophy, Taoism, and Neoplatonism

>>15535640
>cryptobuddhist
>pynchon crypto-cia
>crypto-houellebecq
>tk is a crypto-commie
>orwell crypto-hypercapitalist

at least this board isn't crypto-shit, it's overtly bad

If you're gonna go with obscure Occultist/philosophers go with the Chads...

>>15539101
You certainly are not a crypto about being a faggot.

The biggest downfall of Guénon was that he was actually initiatied into counter-initiation.

He did not recognize it himself, but he never got out of the idea that "In the East true initiation must exist"

He basically could not accept that we had entered a phase in Kali-Yuga where even Islam and Sufism had become vestiges of dead religions. Just like Hinduism. He could not accept it, so he had this fantasy that he could find true initiation in Egypt

Decades went and he found himself stuck in Cairo, unable to leave.

He dabbled in freemasonry, occult under papus etc. and I personally have understood lately that not all his works are that great, especially the affair which he had with the Astral Tibetan masters (it is described in the Arktos book), he was a eastern orientalist fantasist like the ones he criticized

>>15539127
Pic related stuff tells a lot about Guénon

He was looking for eastern, tibetan fantasies all his life and found one in Sufism

>>15539127
>He basically could not accept that we had entered a phase in Kali-Yuga where even Islam and Sufism had become vestiges of dead religions
He did accept it, read the last chapters of East & West. Your post is neither right nor wrong, I won't add anything.
What is the arktos book you mentionned?

>>15539150
See the account: >>15539143

Even in 19127 he was entertaining fantasies of secret tibetan masters that could be contacted astrally. Same goes for his writing the book "King of the World"

>>15537820
in the world, not of the world

>>15539207
Coward

>>15539127
>Sufism had become vestiges of dead religions. Just like Hinduism
This is false, Sufism and Hinduism are two spiritual traditions which are very much alive and thriving. People who say otherwise are always just coping because they themselves dont have the fortitude and drive to join a tradition so they deride others who do so to make themselves feel better

Are you guys right wingers?

>>15535633
ay carumba!

>>15539243
India and Middle-East are total shitholes. They are so fucking shit that even drinking water in those countries will leave you shitting blood out of your intestines for weeks

Make no mistake: these god forsaken, shithole countries where people shit in the streets and drink water filled with shit bacteria and toxins is not some sort of spiritual homeland of center of our world, it is shit filled pseudo-religion

They could not save themselves and now they are drowning in shit and being bombed by modern western countries and their Gods /God does nothing

Only the prophecies confort them, Isa/Muhammad for Islamists and Kalki for India, but we all know that mr magic man does not exist and this is going continue until nuclear winter destroys human life on this planet

>>15539260
>>>15539243 #
India and Middle-East are total shitholes. They are so fucking shit that even drinking water in those countries will leave you shitting blood out of your intestines for weeks
Who gives a shit, not everyone is a coddled little bitch, oh no, you have to buy bottled water to drink or boil the tap water! It's not the end of the world. Furthermore this has nothing to do with the spiritual traditions existing in those places. Timeless spiritual teachings always remain true irrespective of the material conditons of any one place in time.
>is not some sort of spiritual homeland of center of our world, it is shit filled pseudo-religion
You are just some sort of pseudo-spiritual hylic materialist brainlet who thinks and ranks everything quantitatively, the perfect NPC of modernity, what are you even doing in a Guenon thread? Go back to reading Stephen Pinker you stupid faggot

>>15539544
>You are just some sort of pseudo-spiritual hylic materialist brainlet who thinks and ranks everything quantitatively, the perfect NPC of modernity, what are you even doing in a Guenon thread? Go back to reading Stephen Pinker you stupid faggot

Any person worth his salt will do his duty towards society and his fellow man and help his society improve or at least maintain its level of prosperity.

You can use words like materialist and hylic all you want, but thats just to hide you are a failed and empty human being, who lacks any higher values, just like the mongrels in asia.

>>15539243
>join a tradition
I have a question, modern democracy goes back to the tribal councils of bronze age Europe, does that make it traditional and if not why?

>>15539575
>Any person worth his salt will do his duty towards society and his fellow man and help his society improve or at least maintain its level of prosperity.
Nobody said that Indian have not been doing this, India's economy is growing rapidly and the main reason why there is persistent poverty is because the population growth has outstripped the economic growth, they didnt have a commie regime that killed 40 million and then limited everyone else to 1 kid only for 35 years like China did. Indians still care about helping eachother and there exist Hindu charity organizations. This is yet another red herring though which is completely irrelvent to whether a given spiritual tradition is thriving or not, by trying to estimate the worth of something that is beyond the material world and quantitative value by trying to link it to the quantitative wealth of a given area you have shown that you lack any true understanding of genuine metaphysics or spirituality.

>You can use words like materialist and hylic all you want, but thats just to hide you are a failed and empty human being, who lacks any higher values, just like the mongrels in Asia
You just got BTFO and exposed as a dumb hylic who evaluates spirituality in quantitative value, so now you lash out in embarrassment with ad hominem attacks on me. That's okay, I don't care you have already made a complete fool out of yourself.

>>15539736
Just visit India once, even the "modern improving cities" are total backwater shitholes there is literal human shit on the streets

hey guys is the guenon thread where we discuss guenon and guenon

>>15539901
so? im not a pathetic little bitch so I dont care, and that has nothing to do with the timeless wisdom of various spiritual traditions anyway

>>15539974
I just finished Symbolism of the Cross, it was pretty good.

>>15540219
Great criticism of the book anon

>>15539143
what does this mean

>>15540247
It wasn't meant to be a criticism

>>15535633
goofy lookin

>>15539974
based

bump

What would Guenon (ʿalayhi s-salām) think of the new progressive cult in the west? A natural evolution to fill the hole left by tradition?

>>15539172
Okay, can you point to where he actually says this? I've read it twice and don't recall any claims of the sort. Maybe I'm misunderstanding but I feel this takes his words too literally.

My understand is the justification of various initiatic organizations and their "Kings" as being substitutes for the true Kingdom and center; that the initiatic master is one among many in the current cycle i.e. in "our" world, but this is not contradictory as these all establish links to the transcendental kingdom, which is indivisible: just as the altar is a universal symbol in traditions as the black stone that serves as a ladder to one Edenic paradise.

>>15541233
he would say it sounds like nonsense

>>15542160
based

How much Guenon (pbuh) do you think Steve Bannon (pbuh) actually knows?

I do not understand why some traditions are valid and why some are not. For example, Neoplatonism and Dashanami Sampradaya are considered valid, but weren't their origins born out of metaphysical geniuses rather than some sort of explicitly divine origin? And why are Freemasons considered valid while Rosicrucians are not?

>>15539040
He was never a Hindu. He just read many of the books. He specifically said that he never encouraged any westerner to become a hindu. He also was never a gnostic. He was part of spiritualist circles in Paris. Western Occultism has nearly no connection to historical gnosticism.

You should read more about his life since you seem to use like gnostic and abrahamite as buzzwords.

>>15542932
Guenon said that Rosicurcians were valid, but fled Europe / disintegrated. Modern Rosicurcians have no historical connection to the older organization.

Guenon never says Neoplatonism is a valid tradition. It is a valid metaphysical system, but not a tradition. There are no surviving rites or initiatory systems based on just neoplatonism. (I realize, that many religions are influenced by neoplatonism, my point is that neoplatonism in the form of Proclus or Iamblicus does not exist)

Guenon is a bit weak on describing what exactly is from revelation.

>>15542866
Hes well read in Guenon like Thiel but doesn't agree with a lot of his philosophy. I worked for Bannon for a short time in D.C. the motherfucker loves Moldbug. He’s a based boomer.

>>15542985
Could a tradition be resurrected if somebody had a revelation telling them to bring it back? Like if somebody believed he had been divinely inspired to bring about the return of Mithraism or something.

>>15539582
That was not modern democracy where the opinions and vote of every member of the group has an effect but was more like a republic or oligarchy type situation where a group of powerful men like the warriors or tribe leaders vote among themselves on how to solve things. And in any case 'traditional' in the context of the Traditionalist school does not literally mean what people have traditionally done in history. Whether something is traditional is determined by whether it aligns with the eternal tradition and the 'archetypes' that flow from it. Democracy reflects not the hierarchy of the cosmos but disorder and confusion

>>15543172
He admits that there are cases of it in history, but they were done by such holy people in such rare occasions that no one should think it to be possible, lest they fall into hubris and delusion. He very much would rather a person be a standard good Catholic/Muslim/Hindu rather than delude themselves into thinking they are some prophet.

Read perspectives on initiation if you want more. I can't remember exactly which examples of the thing you are talking about he gives, but I know there are at least a few in there.

>>15536692
cute wives, where are his other 2?

>>15539063
> i assume he was inducted into a sufist order in his youth
I read in Sedgewick's book that Ivan Aguéli initiated Guénon into the Shadhili tariqa something like 9 or 10 years before the first book Guénon published

>>15535633
>following the heresy of the ishmaelites
>following the deceptions of fallen created angelic beings

“Anathema to Muhammad, and his teaching, transmitted in the Qur'an, in which he confesses that the Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ is not the Son of God; he calls the good evil, and makes the light into darkness, also anathema to his vile teaching, contrary to the sacred instructions of Christ and the wise saints, as well as anathema to those who inspired him to think and teach these bad and despicable things, be that one of the people, or the leader of demons and the father of evil, or the foul Muhammad himself who gave birth to such ugly fruits from himself; moreover, anathema to those who believe that Muhammad is a prophet and a messenger from whom they received teachings and commandments that are contrary to the teachings of Christ. ”

>>15542932
>Neoplatonism and Dashanami Sampradaya are considered valid, but weren't their origins born out of metaphysical geniuses rather than some sort of explicitly divine origin
The Dashnami Sampradaya goes back to Shankara, who considered his works to just be an explanation of what was already taught in the revealed scripture of the Upanishads, and some of the Neoplatonists similarly regarded Plato and things like the Chaldaen oracles as having a divine origin, so one could argue if they wanted that both could be revealed rather than the product of individual human minds

>>15544094
this

>>15542985
>Guenon said that Rosicurcians were valid, but fled Europe / disintegrated. Modern Rosicurcians have no historical connection to the older organization.

Guénon suspects in his letters to Evola that Golden Dawn (whose Second Order was Rosicrucian) did in fact have some sort of genuine initiatory character and the whole order was not based on pseudo-initiations.

Then again, we cannot take Guénon's paranoia seriously, he suspects that some truly sinister influences and "satanic" influences entered Golden Dawn when Crowley joined it:
>Crowley introduced to it, as he also did in many other things. Even when it was not about rather insignificant pseudo-initiations (perhaps he was not at all the case for the Golden Dawn), his involvement introduced truly sinister influences into it, if from making of it something much more dangerous.
-Letters from Guénon to Evola (X)

Guénon itself is absurdity, he goes to criticize Crowley's masonic ranks of the Scottish Rite that he suspects being "dubious", yet he is totally unaware himself that Crowley was part of the same continental masonic lodges as Guénon himself. In a way, Guénon criticized his own initiations.

>>15544708
you're a hypocrite

>>15535633
if guenon was a jrpg monster he'd be goonon!

>>15545210
Guénon was a hypocrite.

>>15545276
objectively wrong

>>15536899
Thank you, brother. PBUH!

>>15545276
This. He just got angry that people didn't make him into a cringe gnostic bishop so he went looking for "eastern wisdom".

>>15542932
In the Guenonian view:

Angelic/spirit (doesn't matter if it's a demon) origin - valid.
Christianity - invalid.

>>15536899
Its is 139 pages.
Why shoud i read it

>>15546104
That's not true

>>15546216
Could you actually argue, instead of just say things like "Wrong." "That's not true" "Nope."

Makes you seem fucking retarded, I mean really, reaaallly fucking retarded

>>15546358
Why bother arguing with someone who will readily say flagrantly wrong things that anyone could figure out is wrong from picking up any of Guenon's books?

>>15546373
There is plenty of questionable stuff provided in this thread already you have not addressed in any valid way.

Take this post for example:
>>15539143

How can you trust Guénon's ability to recognize "true initiation", when it comes to him joining a sufi lineage, if by 1920s he was still considering this sort of "astral communication with Tibetan masters" valid form of spiritual transmission?

How do you know that the Sufi lineage he joined, was not in fact counter-initiative attempt masquerading as something else?

Please do not answer, "I just know".

>>15546428
>How can you trust Guénon's ability to recognize "true initiation", when it comes to him joining a sufi lineage, if by 1920s he was still considering this sort of "astral communication with Tibetan masters" valid form of spiritual transmission?
That's not what that picture says, it doesn't say he regarded them as being an authentic tradition, it says that he initially led some support to some new group but then after investigating it closer and finding their writings to be vague and inconsistent he decided that they were another fraud. The other poster already replied and explained that Guénon never wrote about that group approvingly in his King of the World book.

Here again you are being dishonest, you are taking the fact that Guénon became interested in and looked into one group before briefly before declaring them bunk and you trying to make it look like it was a lifelong opinion of his that there was some special astral tibetan tradition or whatever which is false

>How do you know that the Sufi lineage he joined, was not in fact counter-initiative attempt masquerading as something else?
The Shadhili tariqa has a long and respected history in the north African region and does not need any brainlet NPC's approval or validation

>>15539736
>This is yet another red herring though which is completely irrelvent to whether a given spiritual tradition is thriving or not, by trying to estimate the worth of something that is beyond the material world and quantitative value by trying to link it to the quantitative wealth of a given area you have shown that you lack any true understanding of genuine metaphysics or spirituality.

This seperation between a "material" and a "spiritual" world is just an excuse to justify your and other peoples failure.

Again, traditionalism is just about promoting vice and societal decay. Material wealth and the life of the spirit are linked together, because both are the result of an abundance of spirit.

Traditionalists, who are weak men who shun the world and invent a seperation between this world and good, are just parasites trying to drag down the rest of us.

>dumb hylic
>you lash out in embarrassment with ad hominem attacks
Hypocrite

>>15546481
You sound biased. I could continue this discussion by pointing out that Crowley was initiated into Sidi Aissawa order (and studied under them in Egypt), but this of course would be considered "counter-initiatic" to you because you take Guénon's stance on everything as truth

Why is Crowley's sufi initiations any less valid than Guénon's?

>>15546481
>The Shadhili tariqa has a long and respected history in the north African region and does not need any brainlet NPC's approval or validation
Coke has a long and respected history in the North American region as the world's most refreshing beverage. Who are you to say otherwise?

>>15546507
>Why is Crowley's sufi initiations any less valid than Guénon's?
I didn't say they were less valid, but having been initiated into sufism doesn't automatically confer legitimacy on Crowley's other views and writings, just as it doesn't automatically confer legitimacy on anyone, Guénon included

>>15546552
>Coke has a long and respected history in the North American region as the world's most refreshing beverage.
It doesnt through, majority of Americans would freely admit that coke is bad and sugary, free people have illusions about that.

Showing you are clearly some autist who has no connection with society at large.

>>15546495
>This seperation between a "material" and a "spiritual" world is just an excuse to justify your and other peoples failure.
By assuming that success and fulfillment in life is determined by the accumulation of quantitative wealth you have shown that you lack any understanding of metaphysics and spirituality and are like a fish berating the turtle for talking about the world above the water. You are out of your depth
>Again, traditionalism is just about promoting vice and societal decay.
Wrong, traditionalism and the scriptures they promote all talk about maintaining a harmonious and virtuous society and living in a harmonious and virtuous manner

>>15546610
>>15546562

Why did Guénon instruct his family and children to leave his study room in Egypt "untouched" so he could "live there" after death?

He talks in his other works how these psychic residues are extremely harmful. In my opinion, making a "shrine" of his own study room was similar to a mummification of his body and instructing people to conduct black magic rituals to feed the vestige of the dead shell and keeping it alive

Did he want to "live forever" by instructing to leave his room and study untouched?

To become some sort of lich?

>traditionalism

>>15546651
>leave his study room in Egypt "untouched" so he could "live there" after death

>>15546697

>>15546711
>>15546697
>>15546651

Did Guénon achieve lichdom?

>>15546651
This reminds me, why doesn't BLM have George Floyd's body embalmed like Lenin or Ho Chi Minh? That way they can roll it out every four years and take it on tour to swing states. I think they're missing a golden opportunity here.

>literally a hinduboo-wannabe larping lich
So Traditional...bros...

>>15546733
Imagine the smell lmao

Unironically based bread. Im finishing revolt against the modern world and plan on buying so guenon next. I had no idea the early 20th century had so many chad thinkers. I feel like an explorer just setting sail frens

>>15546894
cringe....

>>15546898
Shut the fuck up you stupid shit for brains nonce faggot. Did ur daddy diddly ur willy dilly and pluck ur boobyhole like the good little sissy faggot u are? FUCK YOU!

>Shut the fuck up you stupid shit for brains nonce faggot. Did ur daddy diddly ur willy dilly and pluck ur boobyhole like the good little sissy faggot u are? FUCK YOU!

>>15546938
lol

>>15546938
Unironically based

>>15546938

>>15546938

>>15535633
His face reminds me of that recent evil Star Wars universe actor (the latest Star Wars I've seen in Phantom Menace, fuck off). Anyway, the tall fit dude who did SNL? Anyway I'm reminded of that person.

>>15547089
The dumbo looking turbo kike faggot?

>>15547105
yea the tall fit dude with the long straight black hair whose face defies ethnic identification

>>15546610
>By assuming that success and fulfillment in life is determined by the accumulation of quantitative wealth
Literally never said this, but I understand the problem, you see, to the average person Work is not just about making money, but about forming social relations with your coworkers, building on society as a whole by doing your duty and trying to self improve and build a carreer.

Now, if you are in fact a loser who cant overcome the problems in his life, I am sure work will look as nothing more then a burden. People like you dab on Work and describe it as nothing more then accumulation of wealth, because you literally hold nothing higher.

>>15546610
>Wrong, traditionalism and the scriptures they promote all talk about maintaining a harmonious and virtuous society and living in a harmonious and virtuous manner
A completely vague, meaningless and nonsensical statement.

I could take this claim and interpret it that way to promote my own ideas about society, isnt a society which is productive and affluent, harmonious and virtious, I takes virtu too show up at work, endure the pains of it, build up your carreer and then invest your money into your family.

Notice what I said are all somewhat concrete, because I dont life in fantasy lalaland.

>>15546711
Wow imagine that, spend your entire life fighting for "muh tradition", then the great glorious tradition of islam finally takes over and all those people have to flee.

>>15535633
the man who saved /lit/

>>15546734
he is actually referring to a very old and venerable Tantric siddha ability, but it would be irresponsible of me to fully divulge it here

>>15535633
What is this? - canned bread?

Given how heavily commodified and modernized the entire world (barring maybe Bhutan) has become, what would Guenon's suggestion be for life? Join a tradition and form a remote community in the countryside while you wait for the Kali Yuga to end?

>>15550249
that should be the model for a new 300-feet tall national monument

>>15550485
SHOW ME WHAT YOU GOT

>>15549311
as long as you are initiated into a tradition and are taught how to practice its teachings on a day to day basis you can still go live wherever you want, some locations are more or less suitable for spirituality but it's not all or nothing

>>15535764

BUMP

>>15549311
found an occultist commune brother