/lit/ - Literature

I think he should stick to linguistics.

Based. Genuinely think he's a genius, he's still having complex political discussions in his 90s. I was looking at a wikipedia page listing people who made notable contributions to computing and was flabbergasted when his name was on it. Even if you disagree with the guy you can't deny his intelligence.

>>15258886
I think you should stick to tinker toys

>>15258871
A genius, but evil. Just make sure you do the opposite of everything he recommends.

>>15258886
It's the opposite really. His linguistic theories were only fancied for their polemic style. Skinner had evidence and addressed every single one of Chomskys concerns in anticipation of such critiques, some he even conceded in foresight as being totally valid points. This is why Skinner was so taken aback at this criticism and famously questioned if he even read it. Ironically, Skinners verbal behavior conditioned linguistics have been revived and proven correct, especially in neorolinguistics. Whereas politics, chomsky is more sedate and aloof in his analysis.

>>15258913
t. NSA agent

>>15258923
Stop samefagging, butters. Is this your thread? Seriously, stop it.

>>15258886

>t. polfag neophyte

I would've made your same mistake 10 years ago but then I actually went for a career in linguistics so shut the fuck up.

>>15258923
Mommy

A genius and an anarchist, a rare combination.

>>15259082
Relatively speaking

this thread is not /lit/ and everybody posting in it deserves to be banned

>>15259094
I mean, constructive anarchists are of the rarer sort, butterfly.

>>15258871
I think he misrepresents his sources.

I also think that his followers are fanatics who will ask you to show them his mistakes and, after you do it, will degrade themselves to the level of mediocre mental gymnasts just so they can keep defending their guru.

I think, too, that his understanding of world politics is simplistic, naive, and has no firm philosophical foundation, and that he mostly bases it on newspaper articles published by left-wing magazines, usually by very low-quality third-world intellectuals, and always from the same side of the political spectrum. Thus, when commenting on Brazilian (my country's) politics in the last few here's, he's been just parroting the comments that we, normal Brazilians, have been hearing from the local kleptocratic left, and which are ridiculously weak, ridiculously desperate - so weak and desperate that they are now being used by Bolsonaro, who has suddenly transformed himself into something of a new Lula. Last time I heard (one or two years ago), Chomsky was still parroting that discourse.

Finally, I think he has licked the boots of every single petty populistic left-wing dictator that has shown up anywhere in the world for the last 60 years, and whenever the ''supreme leader'' turned out to be a kleptocratic, ultra-violent fraud, he always immediately blamed the U.S. because why not.

Since religious people are only convinced that one of the Church Fathers is wrong upon hearing a different message from another Church Father, here's guru Zizek on Chomsky:

>Let's look... I remember when he defended this demonstration of Khmer Rouge. And he wrote a couple of texts claiming: No, this is Western propaganda. Khmer Rouge are not as horrible as that." And when later he was compelled to admit that Khmer Rouge were not the nicest guys in the Universe and so on, his defense was quite shocking for me. It was that "No, with the data that we had at that point, I was right. At that point we didn't yet know enough, so... you know." But I totally reject this line of reasoning.

>For example, concerning Stalinism. The point is not that you have to know, you have photo evidence of gulag or whatever. My God you just have to listen to the public discourse of Stalinism, of Khmer Rouge, to get it that something terrifyingly pathological is going on there. For example, Khmer Rouge: Even if we have no data about their prisons and so on, isn't it in a perverse way almost fascinating to have a regime which in the first two years ('75 to '77) behaved towards itself, treated itself, as illegal? You know the regime was nameless. It was called "Angka," an organization -- not communist party of Cambodia -- an organization. Leaders were nameless. If you ask "Who is my leader?" your head was chopped off immediately and so on.

Still, too soft.

>>15259128
>in the last few years

Obviously, but still: fix'd.

>>15259115
True. I’m also thinking this is true in anything.

>>15258871
Establishment puppet.

Naive. Kissinger won

Dind't drink enough of the realpolitik juice.

>>15259128
imagine actually supporting a kike puppet like bolsonigger

>>15258871
Controlled opposition
>When I appeared on “The Daily Show” in late 2002, host Jon Stewart wanted to know why conservatives seemed to have a more effective message than progressives. “Are they better at selling their ideas, or they just have better ideas?” he asked. Although I disputed his premise, the Bush administration and its allies clearly had marginalized progressive opposition to the impending war in Iraq, and Stewart still thought of himself as an impartial observer. “Join us in the center,” he said as the interview concluded. “That’s my movement.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/jon-stewarts-progressive-legacy/2015/07/28/f6587a2a-34a5-11e5-adf6-7227f3b7b338_story.html

>>15258890
Or maybe not even.
>Yes, Chomsky tends to simplify US politics, blaming everything on the elites and whoever is in the White House while avoiding the role of Congress. Today, eleven members of the Senate are Jewish, that is 11 % of the 100 members while only 2 % of the American population is Jewish. He and his supporters, either directly or indirectly, raise the spectre of anti-Semitism, of provoking anti-Semitism, and what happens is that people keep their mouth shut. Now, Chomsky, who was a Zionist when he was younger– he lived in Israel, he has friends in Israel, was considering moving to Israel – admitted in 1974 that this might influence his perspective – and he wanted his readers to know that. He wrote this in 1974 and yet few people who read Chomsky today know that. They do not know that he was Zionist, that he considered living in Israel.
>In fact, for years he did not speak about Israel while he was speaking out about the US in Central America and Vietnam. It was a mutual friend of ours, Dr. Israel Shahak, who convinced Chomsky that he should speak up against what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. It is interesting that the most important book that Chomsky wrote about the Israeli-Palestinian issue, The Fateful Triangle, begins actually with a defense of Israel, a defense in the sense that while acknowledging all the Israeli crimes against the Palestinians, he blames the US for allowing it to happen. Now, this defense, I would say, could be used by Pinochet in Chile or any dictator the US has supported around the world, to take the primary responsibility from them and place it on the US. And I don’t buy this. And most people who understand the situation, don’t buy it either when they come to look at it. A number of friends of mine, who are friends of Chomsky, have come to agree with me. The problem is, I would say, as fellow academics, that they don't feel comfortable criticizing Chomsky, particularly since he is often attacked by the right wing.
https://ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/nc-blankfort.html

He hates Zizek

>>15259128
Anyone who keeps Chomsky as a guru ought to feel ashamed. He’s not the anarchist philosopher some take him to be. He’s a linguist and a political dissident who just happens to advocate syndicalism. A simple doorway, or gateway drug if you prefer, shown to anyone who would listen. His sources are the most solid. His strategy? As abysmal as Hitchens! Lesser-of-two-evilism has gotten us worse than nothing.
It’s gotten your country another rigged election.
How’d you like that visit the Secretary of State Kerry during the Olympics. Sealing the deal on the Dilma Rousseff shenanigans. Handpicked her successor

Reddit Quote.

>>15259202
He's terrible, but using such words as ''kike puppet'' shows lack of rigor and intelligence in your thinking.

>>15259277
You're another clueless imbecile.

>It’s gotten your country another rigged election.

No elections were rigged. Bolsonaro says they were rigged against him in the first round and that he has proofs, but it hasn't been shown yet, nor do I think he will show it, because I think he doesn't have it.

>How’d you like that visit the Secretary of State Kerry during the Olympics. Sealing the deal on the Dilma Rousseff shenanigans. Handpicked her successor

Such conspiracy nonsense! Shouldn't you be listening to Alex Jones, Butterfly?
Dilma's successor was picked by herself (or, rather, by her owners Lula and Dirceu), as part of a pact with MDB in order to get support from Congress and, specially, from mayors around the country. It's typical Brazilian politics - ''velha política'' (old politics), as most people call it.
Given the tight 2014 results, and the amount of support granted to Dilma by MDB (very big, eternal party in BR politics), it's even quite likely that she wouldn't have won without Temer, and we'd have Aécio in 2014.

This whole ''Right-wing presidents in Latin American are only there because of US intervention'' game is worse than Pizza Gate. Pure conspiracy. But then again, it's always so typical of first-world lefties to deny agency to others... Dilma was impeached, and Haddad lost to Bolsonaro, because PT was and is a kleptocratic party lead by the scum of the Earth, and the Brazilian people finally woke up to it - and not for any other reason.
Curiously enough, now that Moro ''betrayed'' Bolsonaro, the bolsonarista imbeciles are using the very same anti-Carwash propaganda the lefties had used a few years ago.
It's hard not to laugh!

>>15259351
>Such conspiracy nonsense
>the United States would never do that!
You’re a fool.

posting simply to register my disgust with pic related's incivility, boorishness and ignorance in this thread, which I have reported for violating US law

>>15259360
You're a conspiracy theorist with zero knowledge of Latin-American politics.

The U.S. did that in the past. Maybe they'd even do that again if given the chance, as would China and Russia, if given the chance.

Have they done any of that in Brazil in the last decade? No, not even close. Brazil has chosen its own path - an imbecile path it is, but at least its our own. If anything, its very imbecility is proof that we have chosen it ourselves.

Now, please, do go back to Alex Jones.

>>15258871
He is the dumb person's idea of a smart person, in the political sphere. He's never said or done anything worthwhile and that has actually become his appeal, people are ready to cite him precisely because he is so far removed from mainstream relevance because this suggests a conspiracy against the left he supposedly represents. In effect, the more worthless his views, the more leftist perversion defers to him. It's a sort of cross between a celebration of victimization and contrarianism, the two fundamental pillars of today's left.

>>15258871
>USA are the bad guys
>just give this dictators and murderers a chance, you don't KNOW it'll go bad
>OK it went bad, but that's because of the USA somehow
>Americans are terrible
>buy my book

>>15259449
Why do you think high-ranking lava-jato members came secretly, out of official records to the USA to meet with FBI agents?

>>15259449
I imagine the Lula Dilma party is a mild soc-dem party that didn’t ignite the populace the way Bolivarism (or Chavism or whatever) did for any actual changes, and of course Chomsky is going to support them.
But no, the US did that in the past and are still doing it today. They’re very good at it. Look at our own election! Most the country doesn’t want any of these people (expect Sanders, though I hope they get over that now) What naïveté levels are these?
>an imbecile path
Ah. I took you to be a Bolsonaro supporter. Pardon.

>>15259474
>Chomsky: points out savage imperialism of the US
>rightwing kid on 4chan: COMMIE COMMIE COMMIE MARXIST COMMIE COMMIE COMMUNIST COMMIE MARXIST MARX *gasp* COMMUNISTS MARXISTS COMMIES PINKOS COMMIES MARX COMMIES COMMIES

>>15258871
Lied about "blood for oil" to cover up the fact that every single person that engineered the Iraq war were Zionist Jews.

>>15259516
American exceptionalism

>>15259488
>Americans prosecutors met Brazilian prosecutors to talk about an international corruption scheme involving billions of dollars, but this wasn't registered in the records, so there obviously is an American conspiracy to put Temer and Bolsonaro on leadership and conquer Brazil

You remind me so much of Olavo de Carvalho talking about FHC's secret meetings with the Cuban government. Same conspiracy mindset, same non sequitur inferences from meetings, friendships, empty conversations.

From what I'm seeing, it's not even clear that the Carwash people violated the law. I am not an international lawyer, so I can't comment with authority on this, but the case seems not to be clear-cut. Far from it:

>Vladimir Aras afirmou ao site que os procuradores "não estão obrigados a revelar ou a reportar esses contatos a qualquer autoridade do Poder Executivo". Segundo Aras, "o contato direto entre membros do Ministério Público de diferentes países é uma boa prática internacional".

>Ricardo Saadi, ex-chefe da DRCI, disse ao Intercept que não lembrava se o Ministério Público respondeu às suas perguntas sobre a visita de outubro de 2015. Ele acrescentou que "O contato informal e direto entre as autoridades de diferentes países é permitido e previsto em convenções internacionais. Para esse tipo de contato, não há a necessidade de elaboração de pedido baseado no MLAT."

>Além disso, o MPF segue o Rec(2000) 19, recomendação adotada pelo Conselho da Europa desde 6 de outubro de 2000. O documento afirma, entre outras coisas, que assuntos envolvendo cooperação internacional não precisam passar pelo Ministério da Justiça.

Good on Delagnol, then, for using the ''gaps'' in the law as much as he could in order to fight the kleptocrats.

>>15259500
>Most the country doesn’t want any of these people (expect Sanders, though I hope they get over that now)

So you remove the agency of the Trump voters? Or do you just claim that they are not the majority of the country (true, if by ''majority'' you mean more than 50%)? In that last case, neither is Bernie wanted by 50% of Americans.
You're fabricating facts.

>Ah. I took you to be a Bolsonaro supporter. Pardon.

Because you can't read, as I had made it very clear that I am not.

>>15259594
A lot of Trumps voters from 2016 would vote Sanders. They want healthcare. They know the government can afford free college etc. they aren’t the majority because that was the lowest voter turnout ever. And he only won by an “electoral college” system. Hillary actually got more votes. We’re screwed here. Sanders was cheated (and a feckless coward sheepdog) and it was all revealed by wikileaks when they published Podestas emails. But the media went on about Russia doing “it” and everyone knew it was baloney.
>because you can’t read
I skimmed. Pardon

He says this shit but has made a career out of teaching, almost exclusively, the children of elites.

>>15259659
>A lot of Trumps voters from 2016 would vote Sanders

Oh, sure.

>And he only won by an “electoral college” system. Hillary actually got more votees.

Hilary won. Just like FC Barcelona always ''wins'' their football games by having more ''ball possession'' than the adversary.

>>15258871
Really an amazing man that has stayed true to his views his whole professional life. His ability to make a certain crowd butthurt beyond belief without effort is amazing. The best part is nothing the man says is even that controversial it is just common sense to the stable mind.

>>15259747
>Really an amazing man that has stayed true to his views his whole professional life.

>>15258871
refuted by Bob Black (pbuh)
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/bob-black-chomsky-nod

>>15258871
>mmmuuuuhhhhhvoooooteeeeebiiiideeeennnmmmmmmmm

>>15258871

Put a red star on the Klan robe and he'll be the Grand Dragon by sundown.

>>15259449
>thinking autonomy exists for shithole non-nations

retarded faggot. brasil hasn't made an autonomous choice since its inception, european rapespawn

Let's be real, he only has a few more months left

>anarchism
>libertarian socialism
>classical liberalism

>>15258919
>Skinner had evidence and addressed every single one of Chomskys concerns in anticipation of such critiques
You're an idiot and pathetic

>>15258871
He seems nominally like an outspoken celebrity.

chomsky never ceases to ramble about topics he is not an expert in. his political "books" are merely long contrarian opinion articles assembled of his daily readings of the new york times. besides manufacturing consent, his other "books" are merely collections of his ramblings by sycophants. $20 100pp collections. his main contribution outside of linguistics is the universaly understanding that we live in a society composed of power relations and give-and-take for means of survival. he is autistic enough to go on-and-on endlessly about this when the average blue collar guy will tell you, "yeah fuck my boss but I have bills." no shit noam.

>>15258871
gateway drug to people far more interesting

>>15258871

>>15258871
I've heard of him in my Automata class.

>>15258871
he´s the living embodiment of pic related

>>15258871
/onions/core

>>15259659
>I skimmed. Pardon
Never change /lit/, never change.

Hack that won't be remembered 20 years past his death

>>15259211
I assumed he and Norman Finklestein had the exact same views on Israel. This explains a lot though.

>>15266332
Fuck off I like Zizek.

>>15259082
Hmm really?

>>15258871
Not only a brilliant man but a great moral figure.

>>15259277
>It's gotten your country another rigged election.
>Your country
Oh, are you a fake butterfly? The real one was American. Maybe you didn't know that.

>>15268217
I’m talking to Brazilian anon there.