/lit/ - Literature

Based

>>15081315
how do you escape identification?

>>15081315
>>15081420
EMBRACE DEPERSONALIZATION

>>15081463
That's attachment

>>15081420
Deep meditation , calm heart and mind
The soul can only know itself by itself , the mind cannot know it as soul is behind the mind.


''Ordinary human beings, studying and working with material life, are circumscribed in their understanding by their sense perceptions and rationalizing intelligence. With undeveloped intuition, their limited power of intellectuality cannot truly comprehend matters of the spirit even when such truth is expounded to them. Though colossal intellects and famous theologians may be well read about the soul, they may nevertheless understand little about it! On the other hand, even illiterates given to deep meditation will be able clearly to describe the nature of the soul from their own direct experience. Intuition bridges the chasm between intellectual knowledge of the soul and actual realization of the divine Self.''

It is a state when the knower,knowing and known are one.

>>15081722
The soul cannot know itself. If it can, then either it or the thing known is an extension, and therefore not it.

>>15081818
Such rules dont apply to the soul, you trying to apply the rules of reason to something beyond and prior to it.


''Thoughts and sensations are like searchlights: they throw their rays in front on material objects; they do not reveal the soul behind them. Intuition is like a spherical light, with rays on all sides, revealing the soul and also its outward projections of thoughts and sensations connected with the ego. Intuition is the bridge between the soul and the ego's thoughts and sensations. If one can for a sufficient length of time remain unidentified with thoughts and sensations, and without being unconscious, he will know through the development of intuition the nature of the soul. When one is thus perfectly calm, neither thinking or sentient, nor unconscious, yet knowing he exists—a keenness of joyful being in which the thinking, thought, and thinker have become one (unity of the knower, knowing, and known)—therein is the soul's consciousness.''

>>15081866
And now you have entered the realm of quoting shit that's vague enough to prove you wrong.

What I'm saying is just a paraphrase from hindu text

>>15081979
obviously not a good one, basically in deep states of meditation one can know himself by intuition it all merges into one awareness, universally confirmed by regardless of religion or particular practice

>>15081315
based

>>15082020
How can you know yourself? What does that even mean? What is the self?

See again this is such nonsense. It's just abuses of vagueness in language. I could very well be making you hallucinate a meaningful encounter with your "self," and you wouldn't know. You are just assuming that a deep feeling of connection is in some way objectively a self-recognition.

>>15081315
>not accepting that dualism is our normal way of viewing the world

your doctrine is just another trick of the mind to make you fix a view that will be a tool to dominate others.

>>15081866
>the soul
gtfo with that fake shit

>>15082452
dualism is nature of conditional reality ,one must see beyond the veil.
>>15082383
awareness that sees itself in everything beyond the forms
there is no doubt the knower,knowing and known are one in knowledge.
>>15082529
refer to>>15081722

based...

>>15082592
So you have a great circular argument!

This guy clearly hasn't reached a shrivel of enlightenment, just peddling tricks.

Did any of you ever get initiated into some Hindu order or do you follow your spirituality independently?

>>15083006
Meditate more and know thyself
>>15083042
Initiation by life , then seeking for philosophy which can be confirmed by inner insight
even in orders they have to believe until they reach an experience that allows one to see truth and resonate with it otherwise its just empty words in mind without meaning.

>>15083190
Meditation is burlesque, a useless practice that contradicts itself. It only strengthens the self

>>15081315
>raises two hands
start from here

>>15083223
Raise dick
Start from there

>>15083190
Why are you claiming to be initiated? It invalidates everything you say.

>>15083243
he was only initiated in the shitposting tradition

>>15083245
There are in fact shitposting traditions we are unconsciously initiated in. The oldest traditions of 4chan shitposting often have uncertain and nearly mystical origins.

>>15083206
That's why intuitive meditation is important it doesnt build but removes obscuration , it is actively residing in one true nature rather then seeking something.

>>15083243
Direct experience/spiritual insight/dislodging assemblage point is everything the only initiation that matters it transcends any culture or philosophy.
Rest is just intro ritual that doesnt do anything practical its not a change of consciousness.

>>15083042
I've found one that will, I just need to wait for coronavirus is over and buy a ticket to India

>>15083245
As Shankara posting aeons ago

>>15083460
>27 / 2 posters
it's only you and I. why you don't answer if youre from cabo verde? do you speak portuguese?

>>15083482
>10 posters
No

>>15083535
all me
>no
is that a yes or no?

>>15081315
All the /lit/ memes aside but nondualism completely cured me of fear of death. Only real reason why I still study it is to be able to explain enough of it logically to myself and others but this is probably a fools errand and a hylic cope.

>>15083553
ok guenonfag, just hand over the pizza

>>15083535
>>15083559
12 posters

>>15083553
Very based
I only ventured into spirituality to explain the experiences i had and to deepen them, nonduality does that very well and prior to the experiences i dont think i would resonate or relate with such teachings thats why most here cant grasp it or are trying to logically understand it which may be impossible.

non dualists will never explain why demons shill their beliefs:

possession in eastern practices
http://orthochristian.com/80417.html

>Thousands of men, women and children gathered at this Rishikesh temple to worship this demon. Next to me, a woman's eyes rolled back in her head, arms waving back and forth, tongue wagging pink from her mouth, legs lifting and falling like a puppet on strings. This was clearly demonic possession.

seraphim roses denounces eastern religions as satanic:
http://vladspost.com/pdf/Fr.%20Seraphim%20Rose/Orthodoxy%20and%20the%20Religion%20of%20the%20Future.pdf

read
>The Attractions of Hinduism
>The Power of the Pagan Gods HINDUISM’S ASSAULT UPON CHRISTIANITY
>A Fakir's "Miracle" and the prayer of Jesus

"archons" shilling non dualism to druggies
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62070
(there is one user who disagrees only to 3 years later confirm the same experiences. page 7 i believe)

finger raiser might have good intentions, but his beliefs are of demonic origin (same for guenonfag's). i hope they make it to heaven but they gotta ditch this stuff first

>>15083791
>muh demons
Shut the fuck up Christian.

>>15083837

>>15083864
>demons
Ah the smug cunt average /lit/ user appears again

>>15083872
>demons dont exist
yeah, it`s a larper who picked an eastern belief

>>15083880
>muh demons

>>15083888

>>15083880
You seriously believe in demons? Why is this place filled with retarded schizos. Is this what reading Kant did for you? Btw, brown people in caves BTFO Western philosophy cope with that

>>15083898
This makes no sense.

>>15083904
Atheism is cringe

>>15083904
>You seriously believe in demons?
yes

Hare Krishna!

>>15083912
>>15083911
Check into the psych ward it's better to have people like you guys away from civilized society

>>15083911
If we want to classify various gods as demon or non-demon then the god of the Bible is the best example of a demon.

>“For if the anger of even one hero or unimportant demon is hard to bear for whole countries and cities, who could have endured the wrath of so mighty a God, whether it were directed against demons or angels or mankind? It is worth while to compare his behavior with the mildness of Lycurgus and the forbearance of Solon, or the kindness and benevolence of the Romans towards transgressors. But observe also from what follows how far superior are our teachings to theirs. The philosophers bid us imitate the gods so far as we can, and they teach us that this imitation consists in the contemplation of realities. And that this sort of study is remote from passion and is indeed based on freedom from passion, is, I suppose, evident, even without my saying it. In proportion then as we, having been assigned to the contemplation of realities, attain to freedom from passion, in so far do we become like God. But what sort of imitation of God is praised among the Hebrews? Anger and wrath and fierce jealousy. For God says: “Phinehas hath turned away my wrath from the children of Israel, in that he was jealous with my jealousy among them.” For God, on finding one who shared his resentment and his grief, thereupon, as it appears, laid aside his resentment. These words and others like them about God Moses is frequently made to utter in the Scripture.”

>>15083938
>the god of the Bible is the best example of a demon.

>>15083964
>YHWH is not just a volcano demon
Now you've just started posting cringe

>>15081315
Based

>>15083982
>NOOOO TRUST THESE MODERN SCHOLARS AND THEIR BLASPHEMOUS CLAIMS WHY DONT YOU TRUST THESE ATHEISTIC ````WISE MEN'''' WITH KNOWING THE TRUTH NOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>15083791
For demons they would be further separation from god under illusion of maya, the closer one is to god the more pure and good
So it wouldnt contradict nonduality.

Also i have affinity with angels and practiced occult had amazing experiences imagine a soul orgasm on eternal abundance/love

I still stand that nonduality is correct, read Meister eckhart if u want to get into it from christian perspective.

>>15083791
Based. Nondualism shilling is a literal psyop to get you to start praying to demons. They shill it as if it is this ""intellectual"" teaching you can just check for yourself, but it is clearly demonic in nature and involves worshipping false gods.

>>15081420
>how do you
Thats where you messed up.

>>15083999
>For demons they would be further separation from god
That's precisely what they do by making you consider their teaching as somehow being the primordial truth behind every religion. Christ clearly teaches that only the God of Israel shall be worshipped.
>affinity with angels and practiced occult
Pure degeneracy. Satan is also an angel, why not directly worship him then if what you're after is just maximum pleasure?

>>15083999
there`s a whole group of new agers who worship what they see as angels and there are some kabbalah rituals that involve their invocation. it`s all satanic though

https://www.ask-angels.com/
example

>Are you ready to realize your true life purpose, live with a higher vibration and let go of the experiences of lack, discontent, and frustration?

>There is so much help available to you from angels, ascended masters, and spirit guides who are ready to support you in all areas of your life so you can do just this.

>Meditating with your angels will help you to effortlessly relax and recharge so you can bring increased love, joy, light and healing to your life.

>>15084030
>>15084030
Is it Christ or those wrote his words with their agenda?
Read christian mystics
As for angels they give you more compassion ,love and bring you closer to your true nature .

You identify as christian falling into collective ego hive mind and just add more clouds which separates you from others,true self and god.
Look at the mass killings in name of god isint it pretty satanic? It is a simple measure the closer one gets to bliss/oneness the closer one is to god.

>>15084064
i knew you were a new age hippie

>>15083994
Read the bible.

>>15084073
New age hippies are a capitalist/market invention

>>15084073
muh ''new ago'' schizo christcuck copout go read zen to understand what im talking about and what u linked was someone having experiences which more party tricks rather than direct connection to god .
Read Eckhart Tolles experience as well

>>15084064
>Read christian mystics
lmao. why do you trust these people who believed in and were greatly influenced by the texts you deny as being falsehoods written to push an agenda?

>>15084132
calm ure ego

one day a koi jumped off the pound
and started screaming "im god, im god, hylics. im raising my finger."
and the fisherman cast it on the fire

>>15083553
>All the /lit/ memes aside but nondualism completely cured me of fear of death
absolutely based, same here bro, it is a peaceful knowledge like no other

>>15083791
okay boomer

>>15084166
most of 'seeker' boomers larp with eastern stuff and are anti-christian

>>15084147
Until they reached the truth of nonduality again and were called heretics by church

>>15084151
your* ego is projection and coping mechanism from being btfoed, in several threads very desperate
>seethe

>>15084153
based

>>15084181
>Until they reached the truth of nonduality
Show me where they denied the truth of the texts after """reaching"""" the """truth"""" of """nonduality"""".

>>15084181
To opt for non-dualism sounds like a big egoic cope. To be god is exactly what the serpent suggested in the garden and continues doing so.

Tell me what is easier, more egoistical, and you'll see where lies the cope:

1. Detachment as ego sacrifice and spiritual ascension with self-divinization as the end goal so that you can become part of the perfect being

2. Active sacrifice with true acts of love as sign of living faith and hope for salvation so that you can contemplate the perfect being for the eternity.

It is as simple as that. It's way easier to wish for self divinization than personal salvation. One can never be sure he will be saved (!). 1 is nihilistic and nihilism will always be the easiest path. Takes little to deny truth and value, especially if you claim you are also god.

>>15083791
Very based

>>15084181
Non-dualism is cringe belief for those who are i. spiritually dead and ii. don't want to sacrifice themselves. They are for selfish (although somewhat intellectual) cringe people who think they'll be saved through mental gymnastics. Pardon, not saved. they want something bigger than that: they want to become God. Cringe belief for the spiritually weak and lazy.

Cling on your orientalist doctrines all you want. They are just doctrine whereas christianity is TRUTH REVEALED IN HISTORY, IN THE PERSON OF JESUS CHRIST, there is no doctrine in the gospels: it's a historical account. YOU ARE JUST A LARPER WHO PICKED THE DOCTRINE OF HIS CHOICE --- ALL THIS WHILE REJECTING JESUS CHRIST. YOU DENIED TRUTH FOR A COPING ORIENTALIST DOCTRINE.

>>15084217
>my religion is a historical particularity
yikes

Christians are cultureless and atomized cosmopolitans

>>15084235
that`s true revelation

If being with Christ (the perfect Man and perfect God) in Heaven for all eternity is a "prison" for the """"intellectual"""" advaitin, it is very clear that he serves the serpent who willingly denied Christ.
>>15084235
Cringe. History is subservient to God, not the other way around. He reveals himself in history, unlike orientalist worldviews who wrongly and foolishly deny history.

>>15084235
>guenonfag appears

>>15084202
If only you knew...."ignorance is bliss"

>>15084249
refute this >>15084195

non dualism is the ultimate cope. it does not solve anything, it just reduces everything to one being and illusion on purely doctrinal basis.

>>15084192
>>15084195
>>15084197
>>15084217
Stop samefagging
>>15084202
Its literally the opposite of what this invalid is saying if you dont remove ego you're choosing to be a sinner only through ego death is one reborn free of sin ,it is the only salvation there is . You are doing no work and expecting some afterlife rewards its choosing to remain infantile spirituality and do no work at all , you're afraid too look within and face yourself.
> if you claim you are also god.
What self is left to claim its god?
space recognize it is space and not the limited form it previously indentified with

''The knower and the known are one. Simple people imagine that they should see God as if he stood there and they here. This is not so. God and I, we are one in knowledge. ''Meister Eckhart christian mystic from 14th century

>>15084262
>>15084262
It is written by sages from their states of high consciousness therefore hylics fags in illusion cannot comprehand it without firsthand having experiences and often prior to nondualism many are dualist until enough soul refinement to be able to relate to truth. It is universal knowledge that transcends culture while your dogma is strictly cultural and region based what absolute truth can be limited so vainly?

Also mass murders by christians?checked it is hive mind slave worship
Where are nondualist mass murders?

>>15084265
not all of those are me

>finger raiser might have good intentions, but his beliefs are of demonic origin (same for guenonfag's). i hope they make it to heaven but they gotta ditch this stuff first

you said you were baptized didnt you? do not apostatise for eastern doctrines. i gtg

>>15084298
>Also mass murders by christians?
why do you care? other day guenonfag said theres no absolute evil and other anon could kill his grandma or something. non dualistic nihilism is the utmost slave morality

Guenonfag just adopted non-dualism because it helps him cope with accidentally killing his mentally ill grandmother. According to him, it was just an appearance, not reality. Prison messed up the poor guy real bad. Let's pray for him, brothers.

>>15084308
Yes i was baptized and i do believe this is the truth jesus originally preached before ill minds of men corrupted it, nondualism in practice is the highest moral good .
You feel compassion ,love and benevolence of creator and reflection of self in everything while a dualist is separate from everything and naturally enemies arise .
Also being morally good can help purify heart and mind allowing you get closer to god and be free of Maya illusion.


In a nutshell nondualism is to recognize self by self as witnessing awareness , the roles you play and base your identity off in this conditional drama reality are transitory and not real. Thoughts and emotions are mere content that rise and fall. You will find similarities in many teachings, zen is especially good as it skips all theory bullshit and is just practice of residing in natural self.

>>15084332
>believing in metaphysical morality
Probably one of the most cringe of Christian doctrines.

>>15084444
QUADS checked

Can honestly someone tell me how do they feel in the normie states of consciousness i genuinely forgot only remembering uncertainty and anxiety. What do you identify with or what happens when you ask who are you?

I cannot image not being able to rest in my natural state of being in boundless awareness ,nothing worse than being immersed in a dying role, theres only anxiety.

>>15083791
100 truthful

>>15083791
thank you

So, Mr Indian gnostic, why aren't you killing yourself through starvation?

>>15084813
Im in my natural state of wellbeing

>>15084929
>is posting on the /lit/erature board of 4channel
yeah we can tell LMAO

How does morality fit into non-dualism? Is there right and wrong? Is it correct to assume that which leads you to the soul is good and attachment and desire is bad.

>>15084444
Literally one of the most based posts I've ever read.

I have looked down that path, brothers. I discovered enough to witness that it may well be a path, but one most treacherous and winding, full of false forkings and rife with temptations into unspeakable transgressions.
Best to close that door on that dark hall, and step into the light of the Lord, for his yoke is easy and is path is straight.

>>15084945
making hylics seethe and face the brutal truth is absolute divine expression.
>>15084950
you do good to have pure heart/mind to get closer to god and dispel the illusion , once you have the insight of real self then you act in accordance with your true nature , morality then comes simply from intuition .

Isn't the act of wanting no desire and attachment an act of desire in the first place? Isn't believing in this doctrine of nondualism an attachment within itself? If reality is ultimately nondualistic, why is there a dualism between the "illusion of duality" and reality? What even caused the illusion to occur in the first place?

>>15085048
>Isn't the act of wanting no desire and attachment an act of desire in the first place? Isn't believing in this doctrine of nondualism an attachment within itself?
Thats why in practice u let it go and keep a clean mind without any concepts , this journey is filled with paradoxes.
> "illusion of duality" and reality
There isint duality they are both aspects of one thing .
God could just fuck around and did it himself, no way to know , your only choice is to go further into bliss or suffering.

God is perfect being.
The material world is, but it is not perfect being. It is finite, it's a creation.

One could say:

Non-dualism:
All is one. Even the material world is part of oneness, which would be false because it is not eternal nor perfect, meaning it was created and not One.There is no room for illusion because there is only oneness, there is not even being/non being dichotomy. One can go further and say being in the world is imperfect being and that in oneness there are different degrees of perfect being, but that cannot be because the One is perfect being only.

Dualistic Gnosticism:
The material world is an illusion, which is also false because the material world IS. Illusion in this sense is defined by that which IS NOT in contrast to the perfect being. The fact the world is not perfect being doesn't mean it IS NOT or that it is an illusion.

Dualism:
The world is God's creation through which being is sustained by his perfect being. The creation is finite, not perfect, but can be redeemed. God transcends creation.

Most of those who defend nondualism, including guenonfag and guenonpammer, are not even nondualists. They are confused gnostics. Just look at how they treat things in dichotomic terms of self and illusion. There is only non gnostic dualism. I.e. Orthodox Christianity.

>>15085080
>material world is finite
Justify this outside of human perception

>>15085115
God is free.

>>15085080 (You)
this kills nondualists

>>15085136
Then you've hidden in tautologies, randomly assigning positive characteristics to labels and then contrasting them. There is nothing about the material world that suggests it ever ends, only that we draw demarcations.

>>15085147
the fact it had a beginning already means it`s not eternal and not God`s immance. it`s observable reality through its expansion and enthropy

>>15085152
Where is the beginning, show me the creation of matter, show me the provenance of energy, you seem so sure of a beginning and end to substance and yet you cannot display it.

>>15085080
>>15085143
False read more

Brahman as having two aspects: 1. Para Brahman, Supreme Brahman is without qualities (Nirguna Brahman) 2. Brahman qualified by limiting conditions (Saguna Brahman) The ultimate Brahman is devoid of attributes. The entire phenomenal universe is subject to the categories of space, time, and causation; but Brahman, the Supreme Reality, is beyond. In contrast with phenomenal objects, Brahman is not in space but is spaceless. Brahman is not in time but is timeless. Brahman is not subject to causality but independent of the causal chain. "That which is not destroyed when the upadhis of time, space, and causation are destroyed, is Brahman, the immortal Reality." In describing Brahman as omnipresent, all-pervading, unlimited, infinitely great and infinitely small, the Upanishads only point out that It is absolutely spaceless.

>>15085165
how does that refute anything i said?

the problem is not the hindu conception of brahman, it`s the advaita apophaticism that reduces all to brahman and atman

>>15085172
You did not refute anything ,nondualism still stands only maya unreal illusion is part of its conditional aspect.

>>15085178
conditional aspects of what? the One? there is no conditional aspects of him. he is perfect and beyond time and space as mentioned above, theres no maya nor illusion. the imperfect "conditional aspects" cannot be part of the One. you cant believe in maya and illusion, conditional aspects and say all is one or not two. this conditional aspects you say is just an abstraction of degrees of oneness which doesnt exist

>non-dualism

>>15085188
When maya is lifted the essence of self and absolute brahman is same therefore there is no duality its only an illusion that there is such a thing. All things are absolute consciousness but absolute consciousness is alone in its being.
>>15085189
>retard

>>15085189
you want to be seen as intelligent by your peers

>>15085080
>God is perfect being.
Even if God was perfect being, he'd still enter through the sensory doors into your house. If he didnt came as a pattern of colors or a sound, etc., it would be as if he never existed.
Why attach any significane to one pattern of colors over another?
It's still all just the same.

>>15085080
>Non-dualism:
>All is one.
This wrong. Non-dualism means making not a big deal out of the absolute and the relative. God is BOTH different from AND the same as a big pile of shit at the same time.
But fortunately for you, Anon, being wrong or being right is not much of a difference from the standpoint of the absolute either.
Non-dualism means recognizing that a mathematical point is both nothing (covers no detectable area) and somethign at the same time.
You're welcome.

>>15085189
>retarded westerncuck

>>15085165
>The entire phenomenal universe is subject to the categories of space, time, and causation; but Brahman, the Supreme Reality, is beyond.
Yes but in non-dualism there is both a difference between them and none.
>In describing Brahman as omnipresent, all-pervading, unlimited, infinitely great and infinitely small, the Upanishads only point out that It is absolutely spaceless.
Chop water, carry wood.

if nondualists believe in a transcendental brahman why do they still speak of the universe as immanence from brahman? if they believe all is one why do they speak of illusion? if the universe is not immanence then theres brahman and the cosmos --- two --- and all isnt one.

>>15085212
there is no maya to be lifted if all is one. this conditional reality, maya veil, illusion cannot exist if all is one

>>15085224
yep its satanism and nondualists cannot speak of illusion

nondualists BTFOed as confused gnostics

>>15085188
Not-two doesnt mean one or else it would be called one. You are composed of the same particles as the screen you are looking on right now, yet you're a distinct phenomenon. You are both different and the same at the same time.
People who only see the difference or only the unity are both equally wrong.
It's all wrong and it's all true and no statement can be made, what now?

the thing is that they dont deny the transcendental aspect of brahman, they just reduce being to brahman and atman when this is clearly not true

>>15085243
your problem is you don't understand the distinction between perception and reality. You think "illusion" refers to things in themselves

>>15085243
>nondualists BTFOed as confused gnostics
nondualists do not contemplate the nature of the universe. all they ever do is take away misconceptions.

>>15085260
since when perception is not part of reality?

>>15085260
>you don't understand the distinction between perception and reality
What if perception and reality are both different and the same time?

>>15085259
There's no use in seeking liberation through contemplation of the nature of the universe/life, unless you want to make this your koan (unsolvable riddle to plunge yourself deeper in despair).

>>15085268
From a relative standpoint, perception and reality are no synonyms. From an absolute standpoint, they are indistinguishable concepts, just dots in a line that look absolutely the same.
Which viewpoint is the right one, which the wrong one, eh?

So what is the name for non-dualists?

You can't exist just to be anti-something.

>>15085268
it is part of reality, but it is not distinct. What I mean is that the mind does not encompass the whole, of which it is part, and upon this is predicated its illusions. You are taking the notion of "illusion" to be an internal contradiction in the idea that there are no separate entities.

>>15085285
>You can't exist just to be anti-something.
If you deny everything, including nihilism, nothingness and denial itself, what remains?

>>15085299
Contrarianism?

>>15085243
This is just sophist bullshit on semantics , you can only understand this philosophy in insight , in state on nondual awareness otherwise its impossible to understand in trying to understand there is already implied separation duality

All of 4channel holds unconditional hate towards pajeets but then this thread comes by..

>>15085285
By removing all layers of obsucration only that which is real is left like clouds till covering the sun

>>15085297
>>15085306
this nondualism of yours is gnosticism and not nondualism as >>15085224

it only exists because schizos began applying neti neti until they couldnt anymore. the moment you make a statement that isnt neti neti you are going against nondualism. to simply say brahman and atman are both God isnt the same as not two or oneness. you just claim atman is imprisoned by flesh and mind which is exactly gnosticism

>>15085323
Not making a big deal out of thing doesn't stop things from being true/important.

This is why westerners come out on top in industrialization.

>>15085304
More like contrarianism turned against itself, the snake eating its own tail.
Transcendence cannot be reached through deduction, only by the rational mind being left dumb-founded. It's like Kirk making AI's minds explode.

>>15085297
how can there be a part of what is absolutely one?

>>15085331
As said, it's still contrarianism.

And contrarianism isn't constructive, anon.

I think it's a weakness to accept western philosophy as it is, since western occultism used to show that the westerners used to turn the immaterial into the material and vice versa, this is bigger than the existing in harmony in eastern philosophies.

For the westerners, the balance and harmony actually leads to progression to an upper tier of existence, like lead to gold.

>>15085319
Only that the real is a big pile of shit

>>15085323
...and going against non-dualism is alright.

Nothing anyone can ever say can be right. Nothing anyone can ever say can be wrong.
There's nothing to be gained or lost, there's just the never ending stream of shitposting.

>>15085343
So why are you arguing?

>>15085312
>doesn't know that some of the biggest western philosophers gave great reverence to the Hindus
Back to /pol/ faggot

>>15085337
Can there "be"? No. Can it be thought? Absolutely. Our thoughts are not the architecture of the world

>>15085343
there is God and creature. God is all that is good

a statement that claims all is devoid of value can only be made through reason and wouldnt be possible if all was devoid of value. materialism and nihilism refutes itself

>>15085351
so our thoughts aren't real?

If things don't matter, non-dualists wouldn't argue about it here.

No, yelling about things that don't matter make you look like you care.

>i conclude that all conclusions are nonsense
self refutation

>>15085356
Again, "real" is a distinction we make. You keep aiming for binaries that don't exist.

>>15085359
thats because they are confused gnostics wanting to lift the veil, free themselves, through abstractions

>>15085340
>As said, it's still contrarianism.
If you don't distinguish contrarianism from contrarisnism turned against itself (non-dualism), this is going to lead to semantic confusion. I do not recommend that.

>And contrarianism isn't constructive, anon.
I take note of your desire to be constructive. And that's fine. Non-dualism isn't about being contructive, it's about taking away misconcepotions. Being thusly liberatd, you can choose on your own if you want to become constructive in daily life or prefer to be an arhat incel.

>I think it's a weakness to accept western philosophy as it is,
Then be weak.

>For the westerners, the balance and harmony actually leads to progression to an upper tier of existence, like lead to gold.
Wide open vastness, nothing holy.

>>15085362
Yeah, this is why western philosophy, while flawed, is stronger.

Even if it's wrong or doesn't matter, the caring/intention is stronger than not-caring.

>>15085366
how can we make distinctions if that requires something differentiating and different to differentiate, which doesn't exist?

>>15085323
Gnostics condemn material world while nondualist do no it is still brahman, you just cannot understand maya as you're in it.

Swami Vivekananda:

“Maya is not a theory for the explanation of the world; it is simply a statement of facts as they exist, that the very basis of our being is a contradiction, that wherever there is good, there must also be evil, and wherever there is evil, there must be good, wherever there is life, death must follow as its shadow, and everyone who smiles will have to weep, and vice versa. This eternal play of light and darkness - indiscriminate, indistinguishable, inseparable - is always there. A fact, and at the same time not a fact; awake and at the same time asleep. This is a statement of facts, and this is what is called Maya. We are born in this Maya, we live in it, we dream in it. We are philosophers in it, we are spiritual men in it, nay, we are devils in this Maya, and we are gods in this Maya. Stretch your ideas as far as you can, make them higher and higher, call them infinite or by any other name you please, even these ideas are within this Maya...Everything that has form, everything that calls up an idea in your mind, is within Maya; for everything that is bound by the laws of time, space and causation is within Maya.


Again this has only can be understood in direct experience and realization of identity with brahman.

>>15085371
There's literally no good point in being weak, anon.

>>15085345
Am I doing wrong?

>>15085352
>a statement that claims all is devoid of value
It is and it isn't at the same time. I still try to avoid getting hit by the proverbial Mack truck coming down the street as I attempt to cross it.

>>15085385
Yes, if you don't care about things, there's literally no need to argue at all.

>>15085372
That cannot be judged without knowing what lies beyond attachment.

>>15085390
Uh, I can, that's the strength of awareness.

You invent the why.

>>15085381
cosmos cannot be brahman because he transcends it and is perfect while the cosmos isnt

perfect and not perfect do not mix

>>15085380
Are you asserting that if it cannot be put into the architecture of language, than it must not be true? Certainly transcendence would not be bound by either thought or language. The fact we think a distinction is not evidence of a distinction. We are now arguing in circles, the purpose of this is that there is no reasonable explanation for finite and infinite as two substances, truly different.

>>15085383
If you're talking about making it in the real world, you have a point. Yet at the same time attachment to strength will burn you, as our strength, being born as mortals, will fail all of us, eventually.
Now if all you care about is being more successful than your peers and deriving pleasure from that, more power to you. It's not for everyone.

>>15085389
What if I do care and don't at the same time? What if there is compassion but awareness of emptiness of all things at the same time? After all, in Buddhism Karuna and Shunyata are closely tied concepts.
We all know we're going to die, yet we try to find or give meaning to life.

One but not the same.

>>15085395

“Without Shakti or Maya, God cannot be the creator, because in absence of Maya, there cannot be an inclination (pravritti) to create in God.


”God takes on many forms through His Maya. He takes on these various forms to reveal His own self.” (2.5.19).

>>15085080 (You) (You) (You)
the post that killed all nondualists forever
notice how theres only a buddhist absurdist now.

>>15085394
What's the measuring yard you apply to that which you yet do not know? And is this measuring yard not based on your preconceived notions? How is it not biased towards the familiar?

>>15085410
creator of what? creation
creator = 1
creation = 1
1 + 1 = 2

>>15085418
I take it that you think the absurd has not much value and that your reasoning is much stronger?

>>15085418
False
>''Ordinary human beings, studying and working with material life, are circumscribed in their understanding by their sense perceptions and rationalizing intelligence. With undeveloped intuition, their limited power of intellectuality cannot truly comprehend matters of the spirit even when such truth is expounded to them. Though colossal intellects and famous theologians may be well read about the soul, they may nevertheless understand little about it! On the other hand, even illiterates given to deep meditation will be able clearly to describe the nature of the soul from their own direct experience. Intuition bridges the chasm between intellectual knowledge of the soul and actual realization of the divine Self.''

Its almost impossible to explain this to a westerner as by reason it cannot be understood since its beyond the mind only in state of non dual awareness is reality of this confirmed and understood.

>>15085397
I'm not talking about the distinct bu the differentiator as distinct and differentiator. The Power to differ requires to be different already.
The consequence is that your Absolute is the root of your difference, or rather: the actual consequence is that non-dualism is false.

>>15085437
yes and as an absurdist you might conceive that as possibly true

>>15083791
How does christianity manage to be even more schizo than hinduism?

>>15085348
Can you read?
I was pointing out that most of this site, including /lit/ hates on Indians and now they praise them.
Also, pol isn't on 4channel

>>15085437
no he refuses to stray from the premises that
a. the material world is finite and imperfect in itself
b. our idea of world and substance is received from the way things are

>>15085429
They are same in essence therefore not 2 , god is using maya to conceal that truth.

>>15085440
>the power to differ
nothing is actually different. again, you cannot comprehend that way the mind works is not the way of substance. show me how the differentiator need be distinct, if he does nothing?

>>15085442
The term Absurdist might be justified if I believed in the power of resorting to the absurd. But in truth the absurd has no value either, except as an expedience in knocking people out of biases.
What for? If every conception has been stripped away, Kensho emerges on its own, just like that.

>>15085461
then there is no illusion

>>15081315
>still feels the needs to gloat on a chinese basket weaving forum

You are not God.
There is only one.
Soon is the hour.
Pray and repent.

>>15085439
dude this is the tripartite nature common to all traditions but this in no way promotes nondualism. as i said nondualism is schizo apophaticism

you can say consciousness is a ray from God that shines through the body-soul being all you want and this will not prove nondualism. yes it is the spirit that gives the ability of saying "I". theres no mistery in that. the fact God give us consciousness directly through the spirit does not mean we are God <<<------ please understand this

>>15085452
no they are not. creation cannot be on the same level as the creator. God cannot create another God

>>15085465
does not follow from what I'm saying at all. All I'm saying is that the categories the mind imposes on its reality have no bearing on that reality. The illusion is not "real," yes, but neither can it follow, as it must from your position, that the mind can only produce ideas if it has substantive and metaphysical distinctions already present to work with.

>>15085472
>creation cannot be on the same level as the creator.
unless, as is said, they are no different.

>>15085473
ah, so the mind and reality are two different things?

>>15085448
However, what we are doing her eis creating a facsimile of the material word and given then limits of our experiences and biases, it's an imperfect copy at that. And then we're arguing against each other over who has the better grasp on the material world. The purpose? Well, we tell ourselves that we're advancing humanity this way but what we really want is to feel superior to our peers.
So we're building concepts upon concepts upon concepts in our heads, not being mindful of how it's all BS.
Yet when all these buildings collapse and we're standing on their ruins, exposed to the raw elements of life... something new emerges.

>>15085482
no, the mind is with the whole, its ideological categories and constraints, its way of reading, are not. I'm not gonna bother replying unless you can construct a distinction which must be true in essence.

>>15085488
I'm not advancing anything, all of this mental work has been done prior, nothing I have said is new.

>>15085492
where did these many different ways of reading come from?

the hubris of the nondualist is thinking he is God merely for having His spirit dwelling on him. from this he goes as far as denying and affirming everything as not two

the spirit would not dwell on you if you did not have body and soul

>>15081315
>Nondual enlightenment
oxymoron

there is no person to be enlightened in a nondualist framework since all persons are illusory under such a system

it refutes itself

>>15085472
he is concealing himself through maya.
but ultimately in theory it cannot be understood only in practice
Shankara said
"The noble ones, the seekers of liberation, are preoccupied only with ultimate reality, not with useless speculations about creation. Hence the various alternative theories about creation come only from believers in the doctrine that creation is real." (21a)

"...the texts teaching that there was a creation are not concerned with proclaiming the ultimate truth. For their subject-matter falls within the realm of practical experience consisting of name and form imagined through nescience, and their ultimate purpose is to indicate how one's true Self is the Absolute." (21b)

The mind cannot grasp as it is subject to maya

and God is personal as reason proves it. this refutes all beliefs of a non-personal god

>>15085499
This question begs an illusive assumption to begin with. It need not be answered. Why do they need to "come from" something? Who is to say that these ways of reading are truly different?

>>15085508
why do you trust shankara over the bible?

>>15085508
>Shankara said

>>15085506
knower and known are one, enlightenment is removal of self

>>15081315
not /lit/, fuck off

>>15085526
>enlightenment is removal of self
self and reality are one

>>15085526
>removal of self
why would anyone remove the self? by removing your personal self you do not automatically become divine self. self is not ego. self comprehends body-soul-spirit

>>15085514
If the differentiation does not exist then difference does not exist (since this requires the different), then the many does not exist, and modes and states do not exist, then there's just mode itself. Then illusion does not exist, good and evil does not exist.

God did not create us so that we would have our bodies and soul annihilated and the spirit returned to Him, and this would never be achievable through abstractions. not only the soul is eternal but the body will be resurrected

what nondualists want is the annihilation of the personal self (body-soul) and return of spirit to God so that only God remains. this is delusion and only the devil has to gain from self annihilation, not God

>>15085565
We are now in agreement

>>15085543
Ego is false self once removed only eternal self that knows it self by itself that is the soul the witnessing awareness behind mind and body
>>15085525
>>15085522
https://www2.uned.es/dpto-hdi/History%20of%20Non-dual%20Meditation%20Methods.pdf
because nonduality is universal conclusion in practice application ,insight can be known only directly while other theories are only mental speculation that cannot be confirmed otherwise.

>>15085577
>illusion does not exist, good and evil does not exist
>>15085525

>>15085584
wrong. again you are taking the universal tripartite nature and reducing all to the brahman-atman relationship.

>>15085501
>>15085472
>>15085576

>>15085576
when only god remains you act in accordance with divine will otherwise u are a sinner and more evil the further away from god you're .

>>15081315
What is the essential non-dual reading list? I'm a Hindu(Indian, haven't made the rookie mistake of converting rather than finding nondualism within one's own faith).

So far, I have read basic Hindu texts like Bhagavad Gita and Advaita Vedanta texts like Atma Bodha, Avadhuta Gita, Ashtavakra Gita, and some of the writings of Swami Vivekananda.

Where to from here? Am I advanced enough to start with Guenon, or should i go through the upanishads + Shankara's commentaries first?

>>15085601
correct but this doesnt mean God wants to annihilate our soul-body complex. we retain our personal self when we follow His will

Always remember:
>Monists shit and piss all over themselves.

Utanapishtim spoke to Gilgamesh, saying:
"Why, Gilgamesh, do you ... sadness?
You who were created (!) from the flesh of gods and mankind
who made ... like your father and mother?
Have you ever... Gilgamesh ... to the fool ...
They placed a chair in the Assembly, ...
But to the fool they gave beer dregs instead of butter,
bran and cheap flour which like ...
Clothed with a loincloth (!) like ...
And ... in place of a sash,
because he does not have ...
does not have words of counsel ...
Take care about it, Gilgamesh,
... their master...
... Sin...
... eclipse of the moon ...
The gods are sleepless ...
They are troubled, restless(!) ...
Long ago it has been established...
You trouble yourself...
... your help ...
If Gilgamesh ... the temple of the gods
... the temple of the holy gods,
... the gods ...
... mankind,
they took ... for his fate.
You have toiled without cease, and what have you got!
Through toil you wear yourself out,
you fill your body with grief,
your long lifetime you are bringing near (to a premature end)!
Mankind, whose offshoot is snapped off like a reed in a
canebreak,
the fine youth and lovely girl
... death.
No one can see death,
no one can see the face of death,
no one can hear the voice of death,
yet there is savage death that snaps off mankind.
For how long do we build a household?
For how long do we seal a document!
For how long do brothers share the inheritance?
For how long is there to be jealousy in the land(!)!
For how long has the river risen and brought the overflowing
waters,
so that dragonflies drift down the river!'
The face that could gaze upon the face of the Sun
has never existed ever.
How alike are the sleeping(!) and the dead.
The image of Death cannot be depicted.
(Yes, you are a) human being, a man (?)!
After Enlil had pronounced the blessing,'"
the Anunnaki, the Great Gods, assembled.
Mammetum, she who forms destiny, determined destiny with them.
They established Death and Life,
but they did not make known 'the days of death'".

when we are aligned with His will our personal self remains with the difference now it has become the ideal self God made us to have. we are elevated, sanctified. our self does not become the divine self

>>15085603
Skip that guenon rubbish and delve right into Mulamadhyamakakarika

>>15085623
cont.
we become holy. we do not become God

when will nondualists understand. to claim you are god in potential is blasphemy

>>15085596
brahman-atman relationship.
which is correct

>>15085633
>>15085623
in essence same but not in plentitude that is the point of advaita

>>15085638
the human being is not only atman. atman is part of the divine self. God only shines the atman on our body and soul, making our personal self, which is distinct and will never mix with God's divine personal self

again we become holy, not god. end is not self-divinization. end is salvation through holiness. there is Holy God and potentially Holy Creature. between them an infinite gap

now how does one become holy? not through abstractions and detachment, not through ego annihilation but through love Christ taught us

>>15083791
This type of nonsense is why fewer people trust your faith every day

>>15085672
and how otherwise would you reach the love of christ? even christian mystic teach suspension of mind and inner poverty which is quite similar to eastern teachings.

>>15085661
Sages say otherwise that soul is absolute same in essence as god.

>>15085682
read this among other books. tell me how a kid can acquire the strengh of 10 men or learn ancient languages through the psyche alone

unironically arguing with anons is best motivation for reading

>>15085409
Either you care or you do not.

>>15085422
Precoinceived notion is perfectly fine.

I think, I am aware, therefore I can set values to things, and thus I exist.

>op back
''Goode says that the realization of the Witness is the realization that there is no 'entity' that is the self. One feels completely at peace, at 'home'. He feels free of all distinctions and sees all arising as non-separate from himself, from Consciousness. In my opinion, but not Goode's, this satisfies the requirements for sahaj (the 'simultaneous') samadhi. He does notice a distinction between the noticing consciousness and the objects, however, which, upon inquiry, he says collapses into pure consciousness. For him that is sahaj, what all the 'non-dual texts have been saying'. How one sees anything from this position is unclear and, I dare say, impossible, as the subject-object distinction is eradicated, at least temporarily. However, one eventually 'forgets' the entire idea of such a thing as consciousness, it fades away, and somehow miraculously things are restored to the state of 'rivers are rivers' and 'mountains are mountains' again'. Thus is the end of the game for Goode, although not for certain schools of Taoism, and for that of other teachers, who argue for a continued transformation, even eventually divinization of the bodily nature and soul nature, a true alchemy, after conscious awakening. Further, are we not back to the double standpoint requirement of PB, or, the 'We' of Plotinus, in which the Soul or Consciousness and Witness-I are required for functioning in a world? Thus, a Witness is still there, we are just no longer identified with it. It hasn't really collapsed permanently. Then there would be no experience possible. So, the sage knows that the world and the Soul are in essence consciousness, but also is the Witness to the manifestations of that consciousness which maintains itself as a principle that is non-separate yet distinct from that consciousness. The sage retains a sense of self, a personality (body, tendencies and traits), and also the Soul's 'shadow' of that personality, the ego, in order to have a world and function in it. Egoism may be more or less gone, but the ego as a function is still there.

In Tibetan Buddhism, the apparent manifestation is seen as quite natural, with nothing much needed to be done about other than a change of view - of heart, attitude, or perspective. It is not meant to disappear. So, in another way, Gampopa simply said:

"Since appearances are the natural display of the mind, it is unnecessary to abandon them. Tilopa indicated this when he said, 'It is not by appearances that you are fettered, but by fixation on them. So abandon that fixation.' It is not what you experience that causes confusion, it is your fixation on the experience as being inherently what it appears to be. Therefore only this fixation need be relinquished, not experience itself." ''

This is accurate for me in my current state ,back later reading further ;some advanced sages do keep saying there is further progress to go tho

>>15083791
>>>Thousands of men, women and children gathered at this Rishikesh temple to worship this demon. Next to me, a woman's eyes rolled back in her head, arms waving back and forth, tongue wagging pink from her mouth, legs lifting and falling like a puppet on strings. This was clearly demonic possession.
so abrahamoids can't into oracles?