/lit/ - Literature

>>15021890
You can contemplate them while being christian, anon

>>15021890
taoism

>>15021893
Why would I become Christian in complete ignorance? Granted, although I'm not familiar with Eastern thought, the fruits of its philosophy seem bad from the state of their civilizations.

I'm mainly concerned with Western thought that has been overshadowed by Christianity for the past 2000 years.

>>15021890
>Gnosticism
https://youtu.be/dR_8odoucSE

>>15021890
judaism

>>15021920
>judaism
Christ rendered Judaism completely obsolete, so I'm not sure why you proposed Judaism.

Again, I'm very close at becoming Christian, but these Hindu, Gnostic, Guenon and Nietzsche posters on this board makes me have second thoughts.

>>15021929
>a charlatan lunatic rendered the correct religion obsolete
ok

>>15021890
Brother, embrace the truth of Islam. You can still love Christ, but don't worship him.

>>15021890
Only hinduism leads to knowledge of god. The others just keep you here where you have to just have faith, without knowledge

>>15021890
Your mistake was asking in this board full of retards.
Read the Bible, talk to a priest if you need orientation (and you probably do), read some theology, and see if you end up being convinced. My only advice is that you're on the process of converting so stay calm, it's not bad to give it some thought and don't rush things.
What denomination of christianity are you considering btw?

Embrace me, and you will know the Father

>>15022084
>and see if you end up being convinced.
well I am, but this doesn't mean I don't I could have missed something from not familiarizing myself with other worldviews.

>What denomination of christianity are you considering btw?
Traditional Christianity. Fits my conception of the process of History, Sociology and Politics like a glove (merely proves to me that the system is coherent at different levels of analysis)

>>15021890
Basically you are throwing reason in trash can and hugging schizophrenia here OP

>>15022165
>well I am, but this doesn't mean I don't I could have missed something from not familiarizing myself with other worldviews
Maybe i expressed myself poorly. In my opinion, you shouldn't convert unless you feel you have no other option. In this moment, you're not convinced in that sense, since you're evaluating other options as possible.
>Traditional Christianity.
So either the catholic or the orthodox church i take it?

>>15022197
>So either the catholic or the orthodox church i take it?
yes, but the choice is a hard one, I have to admit.

>>15022220
Yeah, i know, i'm kinda in your same situation.
If you're considering those options then the conversion is going to be a little harder. Both of these churches don't rely on faith alone. You need to reason your path to God, and then, be it by a jump of faith, divine revelation, or something else, you will be able to get to be able to reach some level of understanding.
I would recommend you to read Saint Augustine if you haven't yet. What you can learn from him will be useful, regardless of the church you end up joining.

>>15022260
Thank you, I will.

Behold! I bring you bad news!
Christianity IS the truth, but not the Church's take on it.
Within the Gospel, one finds instructions for how to enter into the kingdom. However, under close inspection it would appear that nearly everything we do is sinful. (No idle speech implies no idle activity, and it is literally spelled out for us in that one parable of the farmer who was not admitted into heaven because he stored up his riches so he could drink and be merry)
So what is left to do with one's time. Two things, become servants of humanity, helping them with their natural rights(clothing/food/shelter/water)... and, equally as important, setting your mind upon the will of God....


That's the underlying message of the Gospel. So.. we are to do nothing but help the poor as much as we are able, and then sit in our room doing nothing but wondering what our purpose is?
And so begins man's journey with God.

All aboard!

>>15022266
Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus.

>>15021961

You don't have "become" anything. Just keep reading and keep gaining knowledge and see where it leads you.

>>15021890
I strongly recommend you watch the 1973 film "The Wicker Man". Though fictional, it's a great introduction to the true gods.

Sometimes I wish I could go back to identifying as a Christian. It's too late for me. This path I'm on leads somewhere else.

>>15021929
>>15021890
>>15021920
Christianity uses Judaism as a starting point, it confirms its truth (at least at that stage). Why not try to seek evidence that Christianity was a valid split from Judaism?

>>15021890
What difference does it make? You think eternal truth filters itself down into your mind through language and worldview? You can contemplate and play around with ideas any time you wish, why fully subscribe to one?

>>15021890
Read the bible, truthunedited on youtube provides a good visual telling of the story. Then read Nietzsche.

>>15023291
or just watch this shit because no one here reads books anyways
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_OfnCf0KNo

>>15021890
Calvinism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jcZJ_m0MyA

i really dont see what good you could get out of other religions that you couldnt get out of christianity. i have not competed the bible but christiany to me seems to mostly be about being the best person you can be and avoiding some of the pitfalls of human nature that can consume your life and leave you miserable. im not sure what else you need

>>15021890

all you need is Christ, and if you are being led to him and his words resonate with you, it's not of your own power and cleverness, but by the very grace of God. That is a sign in itself and you should not treat it lightly.

As for your question, studying other religions is fine once you have a firm footing in Christ and his gospel, and a basis for your own worldview. But if you are on shaky grounds you won't be able to see the mistakes and confabulations that other religions preach.

>>15023321
Christianity is well-known to be a "cuck" religion. That's sort of the elephant in the room here.

>>15023398
>Christianity is thought to be a "cuck" religion.
by those on the path to their damnation.

>>15022470
>It's too late for me.
You took the redpill? Tell me.

>>15023209
>Christianity was a valid split from Judaism?
It wasn't. Judaism was an invalid split from Christianity.

>>15023321
Christianity can't give you Nirvana

>>15023258
>why fully subscribe to one?
Because if Christianity is true, my soul eternally depends on it

>>15023901
>Christianity can't give you Nirvana
nirvana is said to be the unconditioned
you can't into the unconditioned in any way shape or form and navel gazing and following the 8fold path won't do it either, and ultimately nothing the buddha taught can save your soul.
I tried it for many years and it is an empty practice (which is not surprising)

>>15021890


Christianity is the truth! No other religion to it compares. Just look at the sheer number of prophecies it has. Look into and study Isaiah 53, Psalm 22, Daniel 9. All of the aforementioned are Messianic Prophesies concerning the promised Messiah.

>>15022014
Garbage, Islam is FALSE!!!!!!

Satanic, stick with Protestant Evangelical Christianity


Stay away from Mormons, Jehovah Witness--they promote a false gospel, they use a Bible that denies the Deity of Christ.

>>15022033
GARBAGE!!!

>>15022033
this
>>15023928
also this
>>15023901
There is not any evidence that a single Buddhist since Buddha has ever attained Nirvana, and it's not even clear he did since he did all sorts of wacky stuff like claiming absurd supernatural powers that a charlatan would also say to impress people

>>15022165
>>15022197
>>15022197
>>15022260
>>15022380
>>15022470
>>15023294
>>15023291
>>15023368
>>15023928
>>15023905
>>15023901
>>15023895
>>15023444
>>15023398
>>15023368

The following verses are written by Isaiah, given to him to write, 700 years before Jesus came in the flesh, and was fulfilled.

[Isa 52:13-15 NKJV] 13 Behold, My Servant shall deal prudently; He shall be exalted and extolled and be very high. 14 Just as many were astonished at you, So His visage was marred more than any man, And His form more than the sons of men; 15 So shall He sprinkle many nations. Kings shall shut their mouths at Him; For what had not been told them they shall see, And what they had not heard they shall consider.

[Isa 53:1-12 NKJV] 1 Who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? 2 For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, And as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or comeliness; And when we see Him, [There is] no beauty that we should desire Him. 3 He is despised and rejected by men, A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, [our] faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. 4 Surely He has borne our griefs And carried our sorrows; Yet we esteemed Him stricken, Smitten by God, and afflicted. 5 But He [was] wounded for our transgressions, [He was] bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace [was] upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He opened not His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, And as a sheep before its shearers is silent, So He opened not His mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment, And who will declare His generation? For He was cut off from the land of the living; For the transgressions of My people He was stricken. 9 And they made His grave with the wicked--But with the rich at His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor [was any] deceit in His mouth. 10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put [Him] to grief. When You make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see [His] seed, He shall prolong [His] days, And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand. 11 He shall see the labor of His soul, [and] be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great, And He shall divide the spoil with the strong, Because He poured out His soul unto death, And He was numbered with the transgressors, And He bore the sin of many, And made intercession for the transgressors.

>>15024995
Based bro.

All we need is Christ and the bible.
Preferably KJV!

>>15025086

[Psa 22:14-22 NKJV] 14 I am poured out like water, And all My bones are out of joint; My heart is like wax; It has melted within Me. 15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd, And My tongue clings to My jaws; You have brought Me to the dust of death. 16 For dogs have surrounded Me; The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me. They pierced My hands and My feet; 17 I can count all My bones. They look [and] stare at Me. 18 They divide My garments among them, And for My clothing they cast lots. 19 But You, O LORD, do not be far from Me; O My Strength, hasten to help Me! 20 Deliver Me from the sword, My precious [life] from the power of the dog. 21 Save Me from the lion's mouth And from the horns of the wild oxen! You have answered Me. 22 I will declare Your name to My brethren; In the midst of the assembly I will praise You.

The verses from Psalm 22 are about Jesus as he was crucified, 1000
years before he was crucified.

Only God can do this.

[Isa 46:8-13 NKJV] 8 "Remember this, and show yourselves men; Recall to mind, O you transgressors. 9 Remember the former things of old, For I [am] God, and [there is] no other; [I am] God, and [there is] none like Me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times [things] that are not [yet] done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,' 11 Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man who executes My counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have spoken [it]; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed [it]; I will also do it. 12 "Listen to Me, you stubborn-hearted, Who [are] far from righteousness: 13 I bring My righteousness near, it shall not be far off; My salvation shall not linger. And I will place salvation in Zion, For Israel My glory.

>>15025091

NKJV for me, or the ESV, or NASB

>>15021890
Singularitarianism

>>15021890
accept christ and others won't tempt you afterwards

>>15021890
There's so many of them that you'll spend your entire life contemplating them without finally accepting Christ.

>>15021890
Step 1: Realise that Guenon is correct about perennialism, so all traditional religions from around the world are speaking about the same metaphysic.
Step 2: Realise that all the perennialistic religions are actually false and Christianity is the outlier and the only true one.

>>15021929

Don't listen to the people who hate the idea of God. The heart of the issue will always be an issue of the heart. Men don't like God, we are fallen. Christianity is like no other religion. Our scripture is like no other religious writings in existence. The Bible being the word of God, having two parts, in the 1st, God makes promises about a redeemer, savior of Man from fallen humanity, from sin. With numerous, I mean tons of prophecies of who the Messaih would be. The second half, the New Testament, is the fulfillment of said promises. No other religion can do this, because their gods aren't real, they therefore have no power. But Here, God, triune in nature, does, and has demonstrated himself to be the living God.

The portion of scripture in the Picture, Isaiah 46:5-13.

>>15025189
>>15025211


"For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh" Romans 8:3

Phl 2:5-11 NKJV - The portion of scripture in the image.

>>15022014
>the truth of Islam

>bro listen Allah sent Christ with a message and it got corrupted immediately after his death centuries before Allah sends the "Final Prophet" after the Messiah the entire Scripture has been building towards

>bro Christ was like just... a local prophet! his message was just for the jews bro! nevermind that his Apostles literally went to places as far as South India to spread the Gospel!

>>15025283

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGCsx2cdCo0

The Church brutally suppressed the Gnostics and Cathars, who therefore ironically became something like Christian martyrs. Mainstream Christianity is “completed” by studying the suppressed Gnostic texts, at the very minimum. Without it, it’s just a corruption of Jesus’s original teachings. You may not get much social support as an independent student of Gnosticism, but at least you won’t be throwing away valid knowledge just to fit in with some herd.

>>15025384
>trust me bros these modern findings are more reliable than unbroken tradition stretching directly from Christ
>material world bad by the way, see this material piece of paper by a materialist professor for proof
Cringe.

>>15025416
>guys, you don’t get it! The Catholic Church is actually a force for GOOD! It’s not like they’re a totally corrupt organization not worthy of using Christ’s name! What do you mean that we’re worshiping the Pope and fallible human rites and dogmas instead of actually following Christ’s teachings? The Crusades were hundreds of years ago, get over it!

>>15025384
>throwing away valid knowledge just to fit in with some herd
oh the irony...

>>15025445
I don’t care about convincing you personally. Anyone who needs to be convinced, will be convinced. It’s not in my hands, it’s in God’s hands how much someone is drawn or not drawn to some spiritual teaching.

>>15025436
>NOOOOO AN ORGANIZATION DOING EVIL TO A CERTAIN GROUP OF PEOPLE MEANS THESE PEOPLE WERE CORRECT!!!!!! NOOO THINK OF THE FRICKING CHILDREN!!!!

>>15025454
>it’s in God’s hands
Or in Lucifer's hands in case of Gnosticism and other debunked heresy.

>>15025456
See >>15025454. I’m not interested in arguing since the Lord has clearly decided to close your heart for the time being.

>>15025436
You didn't refute anything he said. Gnostics are just larping modernist atheists who trust modern scholars more than tradition. Also, tradition existed before 1200 and would still suffice to refute all of the nonsense you believe in.
>>15025467
>Lord has clearly decided
Why did he then decide not to save your fanfiction manuscripts if they were so imporant and he has actual power to affect even 4channel shitposters in 2020?

>>15025504
>>15025504
The manuscripts are saved. Some of them are, anyway. Also, I doubt you know what I believe in. Most of your Wikipedia summaries of Gnosticism are tremendously shallow. Even Elaine Pagels doesn’t fully get it (although she’s a good intro to it).

God is the ground of all being, not some old man in the sky with a beard. As such, He does control everything and everyone, although not in the anthropomorphic way you seem to be thinking and making fun of. Anyway, you’ll understand more of this in some other reincarnation, I guess.

>>15025541
>The manuscripts are saved.
>Some of them are, anyway.

>>15025541
>Also, I doubt you know what I believe in.
Indeed, it's impossible to know the ever-changing ever-fluxing """beliefs""" (you don't even believe in them unlike actual historical heretical groups) of internet LARPers who didn't even read the four Gospels. Please, just humble yourself and follow the people who were actually there and who knew Christ much better than (((Elaine Pagels))) and (((Bart Herman))).
>not some old man in the sky with a beard
>NOOO THE OLD TESTAMENT GOD IS LIKE EVIL BRO!!! HE KILLED THOSE CANAANITE CHILDREN LITERALLY NO GOD WOULD COMMAND THIS!!!

>>15025541
>God is the ground of all being, not some old man in the sky with a beard.
If you actually think this is what orthodoxy is, that’s incredibly sad

>>15025587
I’ve read the Gospels. I like them, to put it mildly. There’s not necessarily a conflict between the best of the Gospels and the best of the Gnostic teachings. Love one another as Christ loved everyone, the kingdom of heaven is within, and so on.

>>15025597
I said that because the poster seemed to be amused that “God controls even random posters on 4channel.”

>>15025601
>Love one another as Christ loved everyone
Do you know that the "evil" Old Testament God literally commanded the same thing, right? I guess those were just later insertions though.

Leviticus 9:18
>You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against any of your people, but you shall love your neighbour as yourself: I am the LORD.

Proverbs 25:21
>If your enemies are hungry, give them bread to eat; and if they are thirsty, give them water to drink;

Exodus 23:4-5
>When you come upon your enemy’s ox or donkey going astray, you shall bring it back.
>When you see the donkey of one who hates you lying under its burden and you would hold back from setting it free, you must help to set it free.

>>15025541
>I doubt you know what I believe in
Enlighten us then.

>>15025613
How can he affect 4chan posters and yet not be able to give us full knowledge about himself without employing modernist atheist scholars as the intermediary between God and Man 2000+ years after the events transpired?

>>15025629
I respect and understand what you’re saying. I wouldn’t claim to be the final authority on everything in the Old and New Testaments and all the Gnostic texts. However, the belief that the “Old Testament God” is “evil” (in some cases he definitely does seem like that, by the way) is not even the most important part of Gnosticism, and not even a part of ALL Gnostic texts and teachings. Again, this is why I say Wikipedia summaries and Elaine Pagels et al can be misleading. They summarize the most eye-catching parts and sensationalize them.

“Gnosis” means knowledge, illumination, enlightenment. It’s about an internal change more than it’s about having some beliefs in your head to argue about. As such, Christ was a Gnostic. Gnosticism is not about just having some “faith”, some dead beliefs about a Demiurge or Sophia or whatever (although it may be partially about that). It’s about getting experience of God, of the kingdom of heaven, etc. I thus find a lot of the New Testament to be Gnostic, even if people don’t realize it. You can find Gnostic teachings in the gospels. There’s not some clear demarcation.

>Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.
(Mark 10:18)

> Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you,

'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,'
then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,'
then the fish will precede you.
Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you.

When you know yourselves, then you will be known,
and you will understand that you are children of the living Father.
But if you do not know yourselves,
then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."
(Gospel of Thomas, Saying 3)

>>15025634
I don’t find beliefs very important. I find personal experience and one’s actions more important. Let’s say that I believe I’m a good person. Does it mean I’m actually a good person? Let’s say I believe in God. Does it mean I actually follow and obey God the way He wants me to? Or does it mean I’m actually having any experience of God? No. I could just be believing and not experiencing anything. So this is why I think beliefs are overrated.

Second, it would take forever to say everything I believe in. I don’t adhere to one religion such as Gnosticism, Hinduism, etc. Systematic worldviews are just temporary culture-bound models to be used or disregarded as needed. I doubt the entire truth of all reality can be contained by any one philosophy or religion. You can speak of some being more or less accurate than others, certainly, but not of one being the “supreme religion” (in my opinion).

>>15025708
>is not even the most important part of Gnosticism
You clearly hold to it, so those quotes were just refuting your deluded beliefs.
>It’s about an internal change
>Christ was a Gnostic
Please explain to me how Christ can possibly undergo "change"?

>(Mark 10:18)
What are you trying to say with this? If you actually read the text, Christ is asking the man (who doesn't proclaim Christ's divinity) as to why he is calling someone other than God good.
>Gospel of Thomas
Why should I accept this fanfiction as divinely inspired?

>>15025669
Everything is God’s message to you, from the birds in the trees to the Buddha to the shit in your toilet. If He can’t find one way to reach you, He’ll find another way. He is everything. He is inside you and outside of you. You don’t see Him precisely because He is so obvious, but everyone will see Him eventually.

>>15025762
*blows raspberry*

>>15025753
>I don’t find beliefs very important.
Then you would be commiting idolatry. False beliefs about God lead you to worshipping something other than the One True God and deny the possibility of having legitimate and certain experience of him. How could you possibly know that you aren't just spiritually deluded in your "experience of God" if you don't have the correct teaching about precisely who God is?

>Systematic worldviews are just temporary culture-bound models to be used or disregarded as needed.
What makes your systematic worldview of all religions being just temporary culture-bound models any better? Why would one not immediately discard it upon first sight?
>I doubt the entire truth of all reality can be contained by any one philosophy or religion.
I guess this saying was a later insertion too.
"Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. "
>You can speak of some being more or less accurate than others
How can you objectively decide which one is more or less accurate?

>>15025796
We’re working with different paradigms and so it’s impossible to really communicate. I say I don’t care about beliefs, and you still come in talking about which beliefs are the most important.

> 21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
(Matthew 7:21-23)

>>15025796
>What makes your systematic worldview of all religions being just temporary culture-bound models any better? Why would one not immediately discard it upon first sight?
Have you ever heard the phrase “the map is not the territory”? Brain-made models are not reality itself. Our cosmologies are not the universe itself. Even the Gospels, beautiful and meaningful as they are, do not contain all of reality. Do you think “Christianity” is some as real and solid as an object, and that you can just acquire this object from reading the Bible and going to church? Would Christianity exist if the Bible didn’t exist? Where was Christianity at the beginning of the universe before the Bible was ever written?

>>15025796
>I guess this saying was a later insertion too.
>"Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. "
Here, I believe Jesus was talking about the light of God within everyone. He was talking about His own divine self which is, in essence, one with of our own divine selves. Thus, everyone indeed can only come to God through the divine self of Christ, but this does not mean it’s just a matter of believing that Jesus of Nazareth was the sole son of God. Even a Hindu living thousands of years before Christ could come to God through Christ.

“I” am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through “me.”

This is always true, because everyone is always “I”.

All of them, including Christianity, they're all the same 'thing' seen from different angles.

>>15021890
The clown pill.

>>15021917
> bad

Doing away with dualism is the end goal of all religions and ideologies. Read them all, in time you will understand why eating the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was such a dreadful sin.

>>15025813
>so it’s impossible to really communicate
I think those questions make perfect sense and you should be able to interpret and answer them even if you are a gnostic with a handcrafted custom religion.
>I say I don’t care about beliefs
You clearly care about your relativist beliefs though. If you don't care about which beliefs are correct, why not drop gnosticism and fully follow tradition?
>(Matthew 7:21-23)
I fail to see how this passage is relevant in supporting your position.

>>15025858
>Have you ever heard the phrase “the map is not the territory”? Brain-made models are not reality itself. Our cosmologies are not the universe itself. Even the Gospels, beautiful and meaningful as they are, do not contain all of reality.
Irrelevant to my point. If all systematic worldviews about the world are bad and shouldn't be believed in their entirety, you should also drop your systematic worldview stating this very "fact".
>Would Christianity exist if the Bible didn’t exist?
You cannot split scripture/revelation from tradition so this is a meaningless question.
>Where was Christianity at the beginning of the universe before the Bible was ever written?
Yes, Adam was the first Christian.

>>15025891
>He was talking about His own divine self which is, in essence, one with of our own divine selves.
>This is always true, because everyone is always “I”.
Why did Christ choose to omit such important information from the four canonical gospels?

>>15025897
>All of them, including Christianity, they're all the same 'thing' seen from different angles.

>>15025708
>“Gnosis” means knowledge, illumination, enlightenment. It’s about an internal change
>internal change in Christ
Based.

>>15025937
cringe and bluepilled

>>15025927
>I fail to see how this passage is relevant in supporting your position.
People can believe in and call on the Lord but still go to hell after they die. If Christianity was just about what you believed, then Hitler could be saved without changing any of his behavior or thinking and just accepting that Christ was divine. Does that sound fair to you?

> You clearly care about your relativist beliefs though. If you don't care about which beliefs are correct, why not drop gnosticism and fully follow tradition?
I don’t care about fitting one’s beliefs into some slot so one can feel a sense of social belonging, then, if you want me to put it that way. Obviously, as a human being, I believe in certain things. But when you make labels like “Gnosticism,” etc., you gloss over all nuance and forfeit your own right to free thought.

> you are a gnostic with a handcrafted custom religion.
I’m just using “Gnostic” because it’s a more easily understandable term. It’s not like Gnosticism is one huge church on Earth with official dogmas and rules.

> Irrelevant to my point. If all systematic worldviews about the world are bad and shouldn't be believed in their entirety, you should also drop your systematic worldview stating this very "fact".
I never said they’re all bad. You’re projecting way too many beliefs I don’t really have onto me. I said that it’s dubitable any one system can contain all of reality in it, and I suggest we take a more flexible view towards “systems,” picking them up and discarding them as needed. Once you say, “I’m a Christian,” you’re usually then dividing yourself from all the “non-Christians.” Then you look for anything that supports your “Christian” views and discount anything that’s “non-Christian.” However, this Christianity in your head may not even be the “real” Christianity, the Christianity of Christ.

> You cannot split scripture/revelation from tradition so this is a meaningless question.
This is where we differ, because I do split them.

> Why did Christ choose to omit such important information from the four canonical gospels?
He didn’t. It’s all over the Gospels, sometimes in parables, sometimes close to being explicit.

34“Then the King will say [...] 35 I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

(Matthew 25:34-40)

>>15023294
>actually recommending a fucking video on philosophy
This board is such trash now.

>>15026013
>because I do split them
>scripture somehow magically exists without people recording it and passing it down as tradition

>>15026050
The truth behind the Scriptures exists eternally, whether or not such truth physically written down and translated (and corrupted/altered, as when they took out the so-called “heretical Gnostic and apocryphal texts”) throughout the centuries.

>>15025927
>You clearly care about your relativist beliefs though. If you don't care about which beliefs are correct, why not drop gnosticism and fully follow tradition?
The way I see it, I AM following tradition as best as I can. Gnostic texts help reveal the real tradition of Christianity, in my opinion. A controversial belief, of course.

>>15026063
>The truth behind the Scriptures exists eternally
But it is made known to us only via revelation which only works by people hearing it and recording it (i.e. tradition passing it down).

>>15026108
This is a mainstream Christian belief. A gnostic would believe that this is also true/possible in certain cases, but one can also find truth directly for oneself via “gnosis.” Also, again, due to the limitations of our physical reality, nervous system, and of human nature, when revelation gets filtered through human languages and social norms, the new REPRESENTATION of a revelation can be corrupted and taken to be more important than revelation itself, or than the truth of spiritual experiencing.

>>15026100
>I AM following tradition as best as I can
your """ tradition""" did not exist until new age faggots invented it in the last few centuries.

>>15026133
No. My tradition existed since the time of Christ, since before that, and for all eternity, even. This is where, once again, you’re not getting that the map is not the territory.

>>15026013
>If Christianity was just about what you believed
Nobody claimed that. But correct belief is necessary for being a Christian. You can't even know that you are actually experiencing Christ and not a manmade delusion if you don't even truly know the correct teaching about Christ.
>it’s dubitable any one system can contain all of reality in it
I doubt your system then. Why do you hold to your views as some kind of revealed truth when even it can be doubted by your own methods? And if you don't, how are you any different from a scientistic atheist?
>picking them up and discarding them as needed
By which objective method do you determine when to discard a system "as needed"?
>He didn’t. It’s all over the Gospels, sometimes in parables, sometimes close to being explicit.
Sounds like you are reading your retarded views into it.

>>15026128
>one can also find truth directly for oneself via “gnosis.”
> JUST LOOK INSIDE YOURSELF MAAN... LIKE... ALL IS GOD... ALL IS TRUTH... FUCK THESE SYSTEMS MAAAN... THEIR TOO BIGOTED...

>>15026128
>but one can also find truth directly for oneself via “gnosis

>>15026168
> Nobody claimed that. But correct belief is necessary for being a Christian. You can't even know that you are actually experiencing Christ and not a manmade delusion if you don't even truly know the correct teaching about Christ.
Ditto to yourself.

> I doubt your system then. Why do you hold to your views as some kind of revealed truth when even it can be doubted by your own methods? And if you don't, how are you any different from a scientistic atheist?
I hold to them based on intuition, on faith, on meditation, and on spiritual studying. I find that the thread of spirituality behind Gnosticism and even similar systems such as Neoplatonism is the same one running through the authentic portions of the Bible.

> By which objective method do you determine when to discard a system "as needed"?
Very vague question. Can I really give an answer which applies to every case of this? How do we decide anything? We just do it when it comes up.

> Sounds like you are reading your retarded views into it.
Sounds like you’re one of the blind people Christ and Isaiah spoke of, who, though seeing do not see and though hearing do not hear.

>Jesus said to his disciples, "Compare me to something and tell me what I resemble." Simon Peter said to him, "A just angel is what you resemble." Matthew said to him, "An intelligent philosopher is what you resemble." Thomas said to him, "Teacher, my mouth utterly will not let me say what you resemble." Jesus said, "I am not your (sing.) teacher, for you have drunk and become intoxicated from the bubbling wellspring that I have personally measured out.” And he took him, withdrew, and said three sayings to him. Now, when Thomas came to his companions they asked him, "What did Jesus say to you?" Thomas said to them, "If I say to you (plur.) one of the sayings that he said to me, you will take stones and stone me, and fire will come out of the stones and burn you up."
Gospel of Thomas (Saying 13)

>Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.
(Mark 10:18)

>>15026184
>>15026200
This. Gnosticism is just relativist cringe where you pick and choose which spiritual views you personally like the most and claim you reached them directly through enligthenment. It's laughable.

>>15026213
>through the authentic portions of the Bible

how do you determine which portions of it are "authentic" and which ones are "fake"?

>>15026184
>>15026200
So you don’t value personal spiritual experience at all, then? If one is having one’s own direct real spiritual experiences, one is a Gnostic. One has the “gnosis” or knowledge/illumination/enlightenment for oneself. You yourself may be a Gnostic without realizing it. In fact, revelations and scriptures are nothing without gnosis. What’s the point of them if they don’t inspire spiritual experiencing or “gnosis” in you yourself?

>>15026213
>Ditto to yourself.
We have actual coherent tradition streching back from Christ himself which does not contradict itself randomly to suit a single person's views.
You have nonsensical patches of different scriptures which you yourself admit aren't entirely innerant.

>>15026232
>So you don’t value personal spiritual experience at all, then?
Personal spiritual experiences are only valid insofar as they do not contradict revelation. You believe in obvious delusion so I doubt your "personal spiritual experiences".

>>15026226
As I’ve said, I’m not the ultimate authority on everything in the Bible, but I can safely discount the myths and regulations in the Bible without much important spiritual truth behind them, I’d say. And you know that the flood story was taken from Gilgamesh, right? This may seem unrelated, but it’s an example of how the Bible is not infallible and is in many ways a cultural and historical document, not perfect pure unfiltered revelation.

>>15026246
Oh? It’s really coherent and doesn’t contradict himself? So Christ said not to use birth control? Christ was against homosexuality? Christ was against abortion? Christ was God but also said:

> “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

Christ sponsored the Crusades, the wanton killing of Muslims and Cathars? Christ supports priests molesting children? Christ supports a huge kingdom on earth, even though He said His kingdom was not of this earth?

>>15026253
And how do you decide what revelation is?

>>15026255
>I can safely discount the myths and regulations in the Bible
On what authority do you claim that these "myths" have no important spiritual truth behind them? Why can you just choose to discard them when the text itself claims they are important?
>the flood story was taken from Gilgamesh
On what authority do you claim this? Personal spiritual revelation? Or materialistic "data" unenligthened people gather and interpret in a systematic worldview (which you happen to deny can contain the full and absolute truth)?

>>15026271
>o Christ said not to use birth control? Christ was against homosexuality? Christ was against abortion?
lmao. the Enligthened gnostic finally shows his true face.

>>15026271
>Christ said not to use birth control
The Law (revealed by Christ to Moses) says not to waste your seed.
>Christ was against homosexuality
See above.
>Christ was against abortion
See above.

>>15026271
>NOOOO!!!! WHY CHURCH DO BAD THING!!! NOOOO PEOPLE CANNOT BE FALLIBLE IF THEY HAVE CHRISTS FULL REVELATION!!!!

>Christ was God but also said:
> “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.
How does that contradict him being God? Please explain in detail how you derive him not being God from this sentence.

>>15026271
>So Christ said not to use birth control? Christ was against homosexuality? Christ was against abortion?

>>15026276
>On what authority do you claim that these "myths" have no important spiritual truth behind them? Why can you just choose to discard them when the text itself claims they are important?
So you don’t cherry pick anything from the Bible either? You’ve read the entire Bible and can tell me why every story and rule in there is meaningful and directly from God?

> On what authority do you claim this? Personal spiritual revelation? Or materialistic "data" unenligthened people gather and interpret in a systematic worldview (which you happen to deny can contain the full and absolute truth)?
In the Epic of Gilgamesh, Gilgamesh is warmed by a deity that a flood will destroy everyone on Earth, and is told to build an ark and get on it to protect himself. He’s even given the measurements of the ark and instructed on how to build it, just like Noah was, brings animals on it, etc. This isn’t speculation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgamesh_flood_myth

>>15026288
I’m not a liberal, buddy. I find 4channelers who think they’re super masculine and that everyone else is a “basedboy” quite cute, though. Instead of actually having unique developed views, just use memes!

>>15026300
I’d like a source on that, please. And anyway, even without the talking points I used (which do sound libtarded, admittedly), I still find the Catholic Church to have been very contradictory and corrupt throughout its history. It is far, far away from a “perfect preservation of the teachings of Christ.” They just add a bunch of crap and people swallow it for some reason.

>>15026271

>wanton killing

Exuces me, did you mean to say: war? You realize the crusades weren't in the Arabian peninsula right? They were in lands historically christian lands that were conquered during Islamic invasions.

Also all your points are about priests, soldiers, kings and zealots. Those who claim to represent the will of God. You've said nothing about God. God being good has nothing to do with the actions of men.

> Christ was against homosexuality? Christ was against abortion?

Are you implying these are good things? Come on anon be honest with yourself. Sticking it up one another's shitter and calling it love is laughable. Faggots are pathetic and you know it.
Abortion might be necessary in some cases. But no one would consider it good. You wouldn't recommend that someone you love have one.

@15026354
>In the Epic of Gilgamesh, Gilgamesh is warmed by a deity that a flood will destroy everyone on Earth, and is told to build an ark and get on it to protect himself. He’s even given the measurements of the ark and instructed on how to build it, just like Noah was, brings animals on it, etc. This isn’t speculation.
why was it copied from gilgamesh and not the other way around?

>>15026271
>So Christ said not to use birth control? Christ was against homosexuality? Christ was against abortion? Christ was God but also said:
>> “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

>>15026360
>Are you implying these are good things? Come on anon be honest with yourself. Sticking it up one another's shitter and calling it love is laughable. Faggots are pathetic and you know it.
>Abortion might be necessary in some cases. But no one would consider it good. You wouldn't recommend that someone you love have one.
I like to go by, “Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone.” It’s fine to think homosexuality, abortion etc. are immoral, to condemn the sin but not the sinner. In practice, though, this has just led to horrific oppression of and trauma for gays throughout history. The official condemnation of birth control and abortion is also disastrous for Catholic communities in poor places such as African countries who really need to just stop breeding but now can’t because the Pope said they can’t put some rubber around their Willy.

> Exuces me, did you mean to say: war? You realize the crusades weren't in the Arabian peninsula right? They were in lands historically christian lands that were conquered during Islamic invasions.

Also all your points are about priests, soldiers, kings and zealots. Those who claim to represent the will of God. You've said nothing about God. God being good has nothing to do with the actions of men.
And so the Catholic Church gave the OK to and officially supported a .... war. Live by the sword, die by the sword?

>>15026399
>this has just led to horrific oppression of and trauma for gays throughout history
>who really need to just stop breeding

>>15026383
Because the Gilgamesh story originated from about 2000 BC. There’s historical and archaeological evidence some big flood really did happen on the Earth way back then, if I remember correctly, by the way.

>>15021929

Ever heard of the Self-Realization Temple founded by Paramahansa Yogananda? Come pay us a visit sometime.

>>15026404
So Africans should breed more? And there’s something intrinsically wrong with being sexually attracted to members of the same sex?

>>15026399
>so the Catholic Church gave the OK to and officially supported a .... war

God is fine with giving the OK to initiate a war. You're sounding like a genuine bugman at this point.

Deuteronomy 7
When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you— 2 and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally.[a] Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. 3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, 4 for they will turn your children away from following me to serve other gods, and the Lord’s anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you. 5 This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles[b] and burn their idols in the fire. 6 For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.

>>15026399

>the Catholic Church gave the OK

Which is made up of ... men, exactly. We were not debating the Catholic Church, we were debating what the bible says. You can't just take a teaching of Jesus and say lul it's invalid because history is violent.

>>15026459
Maybe the Old Testament Demiurge supports war, but Christ said to turn the other cheek, and also that he who lives by the sword will die by the sword.

>>15026461
My point is that mainstream interpretations of Christianity quickly become very corrupted. Christ isn’t to be found in some social movement or mega-church.

@15026489
protestant modernist bugmen I swear...

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

>>15026489
>mainstream interpretations of Christianity
Your own interpretation of Christianity as the Old Testament God being evil is extremely mainstream.

>>15026513
Did Christ read the entire Old Testament in the form we have it today, and did he literally support every trifling regulation in it?

> Keep my decrees. Do not mate different kinds of animals. Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.
Leviticus 19:19

>>15026520
By mainstream interpretations of Christianity, I meant mainstream forms of Christianity such as Protestantism, Catholicism, Eastern Orthodox, etc.

>>15025211
>>15025265
bless you anon

>>15026489

No your point was that Jesus saying God is good is contradictory. You can't move the goalposts every post. I only have the information you give me, so to then not including that information in your argument and later saying well what I really meant was X is a waste of time and terrible debating etiquette. It's like if we were in a boxing match and you decided to kick me in the nuts and then you say : what you didn't know that was allowed?

To most in the thread: I advise to suspend your judgements. Man was not meant to know of good and evil, our minds are incapable of truly discerning either, as will become increasingly apparent as the age of reason plods on.

>>15026419
how long does it take to be initiated into Kriya once you sign up and take lessons? i'm interested in doing so

>>15026541
>Did Christ read the entire Old Testament in the form we have it today
He dictated it to Moses on Mount Sinai. Also, I thought the Old Testament God was always evil and the parts about him being good were inserted later? Why would now even these "evil" parts be under doubt? How could Jesus be trained in the Law of the evil demiurge and just miss these parts?

>Leviticus 19:19
That was meant for the Jews to separate themselves from the local nearby degenerate pagan groups you so love. It's much harder to mix with them and follow their false gods when you aren't even allowed to eat their meat, wear their clothes, etc.

>Protestantism
You are basically following a very radical style of protestantism yourself where you deny the scripture and tradition as it suits your modernized subjective tastes.

>>15026586
You seem to be mistaken, I was responding to this post:

>>15026246

You claimed you were part of a coherent tradition stretching all the way back to Christ which did not contradict itself. I am doubtful of that because I don’t believe, again, that any mainstream school of Christianity today is an uncorrupted continuation of Christ’s teachings. They’re all culturally and historically conditioned in ways which go beyond merely repeating Christ’s teachings, and a lot of them have some history of hypocrisy and violence. “By their fruits shall ye know them.”

>>15026604
>our minds are incapable of truly discerning either
epic good & evil statement at the same time there, brother. i too am an epic subjectivist who proclaims that knowledge does not exist.

>>15021917
You know saints and bishops spend their whole lives ruminating over and trying to understand Christianity, right? Same with all religion; it's not really something you enter with full knowledge, but rather a system that provides the paths toward knowledge and happiness. Also nothing is tethering you to any chosen religion, you can swap around as much as you like.
>>15021929
Also it sounds like you literally are already a christian. All it takes is believing the core fundamentals of the religion, and then you proceed from there through the theological thought processes.

>>15021890

Your own. By all means read information about these religions and philosophies but do not fall into the trap of preferring one or the other.

Likewise read material from each denomination of Christianity, take ideas of each and consider what Christ's teachings mean to you on an individual level.

>>15026615
A lot of the OT is just corrupted accounts of humanity’s early interaction with various extraterrestrial races/our creators. Read Zecharia Sitchin and Billy Meier, if you’re willing to have your “normal worldview” blown up.

>>15026643
>(((Zecharia))) Sitchin and Billy (((Meier)))
OH NO NO NO NO

>>15026636
>nothing is tethering you to any chosen religion, you can swap around as much as you like.

>>15026640
>Your own. By all means read information about these religions and philosophies but do not fall into the trap of preferring one or the other.

>>15026640
>take ideas of each and consider what Christ's teachings mean to you on an individual level.

>>15026643
>Read Zecharia Sitchin and Billy Meier, if you’re willing to have your “normal worldview” blown up.

>>15026659
The Urantia Book is a good addition to, while you’re at it. Of course, you won’t take this advice. No one will. Maybe one person out of thousands would, and they’re probably not here reading any of this. So I’m wasting my time. This is why in the beginning I said I was not interested in arguing, because I already knew none of us would really be convinced of anything by the other. Once this conversation ends, we’ll each promptly forget everything the other person said and go back to living our lives the way we always live it.

If anyone is interested, though, the book recommendations I’ve just given can help them take things out really far

>>15026700
>The Urantia Book
>written by a modern anglo
OH NO NO NO NO

>>15026705
Typical scoffer. As I said, this is why it’s useless to try to convince anyone of anything. Goodbye and God help you.

I will pray for you, gnosticanon. You seem to be under the influence of very unclean forces.

>>15026718
Thank you very much. I think you’re misguided in terms of how much I’m being led by demonic forces, but I’ll take whatever prayers I can get.

>>15026636
>Also nothing is tethering you to any chosen religion, you can swap around as much as you like.
Omg! So much this! I think it is even helpful to follow multiple Paths at once! I find this channel very affirming to my multi-religious identity...
https://youtu.be/t3p78ZDAPiM

I only pray to One God.
Stop trying to subvert me with this gnostic polytheism crap.
Thank you.

>>15026626
Unironically read Genesis, why are you even in this thread? Optionally check out Job after if you still don't get it.

Wow, it's brutal how badly this thread's potebtial discussion was pillaged by wojak shitposters larping as christians.

>>15027510
I regret I ever made this thread


For I am Death, destroyer of threads.

>>15026774
>I only pray to One God.
Based. Fuck the false gods and the retarded hindu statues. I pray to the God of Israel only.

>>15026314
Because he has just said only God is good, not himself. So he is clearly separating himself from God. This suggests a much more complicated view of Christ’s nature than, again, most mainstream Christians care to entertain. In mainstream Christianity, Christ is uniquely and literally the son of God and also God Himself at the same time, and the only way to be saved is to believe he is God and do good works and so on. Other religious traditions are therefore typically seen as false, corrupted, or at the very least inferior to Christianity.

I doubt this was Christ’s intention. From his sayings and personality as recorded both in the Gospels and in Gnostic texts, Christ does not seem like someone who was prone to loudly and arrogantly proclaiming his own unique divinity. He even tells the apostles to keep hush about it at times, and merely responds, “Thou hast said it,” when Pilate asks him if he is really the Son of God. Again, seems like even in the Gospels, views towards Christ’s divinity are rather nuanced and mysterious.

Allah is the way. Praise be.

>>15022380

Based

>>15026314
>>15028802
Secondly, he famously cries out “Eli, Eli lama sabachthani” on the cross:

>My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
(Matthew 27:46)

>>15021917
If you don't think you can explore other philosophies after becoming a christian this means that being christian to you means halting your search for truth. You are assuming tat becoming Christian means that no further development is possible. I'm not saying you should become Christian, you can wait doesn't bother me I'm no christcuck. But you're mindset is that once you become Christian your search for truth is over which is dumb.

>>15021890
>What about Gnosticism
bullshit

>Hinduism
bullshit

>Nietzscheanism
bullshit

>and so forth?
bullshit

>>15028802
>not himself
Where exactly does he say that he is not good? He only asked WHY he was being called good by the man. And he literally gives you the reason why you can call him good in the next line. The man doesn't know that he is God though, so Jesus asks as to why he is calling someone he does not believe to be God as good.
>much more complicated view of Christ’s nature than, again, most mainstream Christians care to entertain
I guarantee you that you don't understand basic Christology and that your """complicated""" view is a complete incoherent mess.
>Christ is uniquely and literally the son of God and also God Himself at the same time
Being the Son of God is a claim about his personhood, being God is a claim about the nature of this personhood. Him being the Son of God doesn't mean he cannot be "God Himself", as this "God Himself" isn't even a person, but is just a phrase denoting Christ's divinity, the one he shares with the Father and the Holy Spirit from all eternity.
>Christ does not seem like someone who was prone to loudly and arrogantly proclaiming his own unique divinity
???
I guess these were later insertions into John.
30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[a]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”


>>15028834
Christ was fulfilling a messianic prophecy and letting the Jews know who exactly they are killing. Literally read Psalm 22 where this quote is from...
You're acting like a muslim by claiming that Christ showing his humanity somehow negates his divinity.

>>15028802
>Other religious traditions are therefore typically seen as false, corrupted, or at the very least inferior to Christianity.
Yes.

>>15029377
I don’t really care what you say because you and I both know we’re bullshitting about Jesus’s life and nature. We weren’t there while he was alive. Anyway, Gnostic teachings (some of which can be found in the Nag Hammadi tractate) fit with teachings and sayings found in the Gospels. These teachings were persecuted as heretical by the early Catholic Church, but the Catholic Church is a corrupt organization anyway. For instance, they ordered the massacre of a Cathar town, Catharism being a sect of Christianity which adhered to Gnostic teachings.

My views on Christology aren’t formed. I at least admit I don’t know instead of claiming I have it all nailed down. As I’ve said, I’m not really a “Gnostic,” and there are hugely different things which could be called “Gnostic.” “Gnostic” is a scholarly buzzword for “a lot of Christian texts which for some reason were deemed heretical and excluded from the (heavily edited) modern canon.”

Gnostic teachings were also carried by the Western esoteric tradition, by the way. This is stuff like Freemasonry, Rosicrucianism, etc. The Catholic Church, of course, was afraid of Freemasonry (perhaps rightly so — there could be genuinely evil “Gnostics” in these organizations) and “outlawed” it many times.

>>15029464
>I don’t really care what you say
Because I refuted the obvious falsehoods you're trying to push.
>you and I both know we’re bullshitting about Jesus’s life and nature
Speak for yourself. I actually believe in the scriptures as a way to know for certain what happened in Christ's life.
>My views on Christology aren’t formed.
Obviously not, you deny the actual church and its teaching regarding Christology. You literally don't have even the slightest idea as to who Christ actually is. No amount of reading heretical fan-fiction texts is going to change that. These teachings are heretical for a reason.
>(heavily edited) modern canon
Why do you trust atheistic scholars so much in determining truth? Aren't they unenligthened even by your standards?
>Gnostic teachings were also carried by the Western esoteric tradition
Which just further goes to show their falsehood to anyone who has any sense.

>>15029464

>fit with teachings and sayings found in the Gospels
>yeah bro it's like totally the same! its the same teaching LOL!!!! the evil dogmatic church just didnt like the good gnostic people and they were big meanieheads!!!!

>>15028802
>>15029464
>>15029179
>>15028802

>Why yes I read the Gospel of Thomas, how could you tell?

>>15029464
>i admit i don't know shit but you're still wrong for correcting me: the post
Epic, as the kids say.

>>15029572
The Prophet Muhammad says that Jesus is not God but only a fellow prophet. I accept the Quran as a revelation from God in the same way you accept the Bible as a revelation from God.

>>15029597
>The ""Prophet"" Muhammad
He had a very bad reading in Christianity. Almost as bad as the gnostic larpers.

>>15029615
I was Guenonposter the whole time.

Jesus (pbuh) was not God but a messenger sent from God. I am a Sufi.

>>15029625
Guénon actually believed that Christ was a lesser tier God, just slightly above Muhammad in divinity.

>>15029634
I also believe Jesus was God.

>>15029625
Admittedly, I contradicted myself here because I was being immature and trying to get a rise out of you.

Everyone and everything is God. Nothing is apart from God.

>>15029536
I've never read any gospel

>>15025916
Explain?

>>15025211
>inerrant scripture - literal words of Jesus in form of a love letter that came down from a heavenly portal.

Trash.

>>15022014
Jesus is God incarnate.
God has incarnated pretty much half a millennia before your warrior desert ruler hallucinated.
When Satan offered Jesus the kingdoms of earth to rule, He refused like a God He is... when the Jews wanted to make him their king, he cried and left out to pray for hours in solitude.

+ Islam is a political system. Good luck with that.

>>15023905
Christianity is universalist in the end.
The eternal hell thing is a imperial power thing from that stage of Christianity and also it took inspiration from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_of_Peter which is apocryphal.

>>15021890
>What about Gnosticism
Gnosticism is Christian, dumbass

>>15023294
I do.
But I paste the text in word - I split by sentence on each line and I follow the text while I also hear it in text to speech.

This way I actually follow content that bored me before and I retain much more long time.

>>15021890
>What other worldview should I consider contemplating before becoming Christian?
Your own.

A thousand wide-eyed zealots from myriad cults are waiting to claim you. Most of them fervently believing that their faith is the one true way. Others know better but only look to influence and control you with their scripture and dogma.

Will you be beheaded as an infidel before the throngs of Allah? Suffer an eternity for a single lifetime's sin in a Christian's Hell? Or restrict your life with a range of dictates from a hundred other religions?

Maybe you don't need a middleman between you and your creator at all. You can likely tell right from wrong in the moral choices you make and how you treat others. And no one will ever be able to prove to you for certain whether or not their god exists at all. Likewise, no one can prove to them that we were created from nothing and by no one. Spirituality is a personal journey for everyone. You can let it be your own journey, or you can let other people tell you that you'll suffer for not having believed exactly as they do. It's totally up to you.

>>15021890
>What other worldview should I consider contemplating before becoming Christian?
Begom Christian, don't waste the limited time God has given you in this mortal life frittering about with falsehoods.

>>15031093
>Christianity is universalist in the end.
No it's not, read the bible. Lying is a sin.

>>15031098
>Gnosticism is Christian
No Christian would call a heretical sect Christian, that's like saying Islam is Christian