/lit/ - Literature

pbuh

>>15001370
any non-dualist "philosophy" that isn't Spinoza's parallelism is fucking retarded, don't waste your time

I recommend starting with his series of commentaries on 8 Upanishads which can be read here or purchased on amazon

https://estudantedavedanta.net/Eight-Upanisads-Vol-1.pdf
https://estudantedavedanta.net/Eight-Upanisads-vol2.pdf

If you are struggling to understand anything you find on lib-gen the book "The Advaita Tradition in Indian Philosophy" by Sharma, and you can use the index/glossary in it to look up any subject or concept that you are not clear on. Also Guenon's "Man and His Becoming According to the Vedanta" can be used as a resource to consult also.

>>15001398
Cringe.

>>15001370
http://cogprints.org/6613/1/Dualism0409.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXX-_G_9kww

>>15001434
BASED! BASED BASED BAAAASED!!!!!! HOLY BASED!

>>15001434
Based... I will begin reading these immediately brother

>>15001370
from my understanding and to sum up non-dualism means that there is no other world/reality beyond our world.

The guy that came first with the idea of dualism was Plato saying there was a world we could not perceive. The world of "ideas". I think that is also what the allegory of the cave is about. The guy in the cave doesn't know there is a bigger world outside until he goes out.

>>15001463
Thank you brother, I will begin reading these immediately

>>15001370
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFc2JVeOzQ0

>>15001477
Never thought of Christianity being materialistic but now it seems makes sense.

>>15001370
I’d recommend the written lectures of Swami Vivekananda.

>>15001370
non-dualism is cringe belief for those who are i. spiritually dead and ii. don't want to sacrifice themselves. they are for selfish (although somewhat intellectual) cringe people that think they'll be saved through mental gymnastics. pardon, not saved. they want something bigger than that: they want to become god. cringe belief for the spiritually weak and lazy.

>>15002051
Based. Also try this gem. Might even get OP somewhere if he reads it.

>>15001459
brainlet take, there is material world which is illusion and absolute consciousness which is primary and from it the finite illusion is manifested

>>15001391
Basedness be upon you.
>>15001398
>spinigga get out.
>>15001370
Totality. Every good book is essentially about this topic.

>>15001370>>15002140

non duality is Enlightenment according to women, ie ''not having thought'', ie ''living in the present moment''

>>15002064
Let me enlighten thou brainlet
nondualism is not so much a belief as ultimate truth, the end stage of ones spiritual development or one can understand it by having a spiritual insight of brahman(in my case few experiences in meditation). You can still practice duality or other systems but its for mere play the most important thing is to realize ultimate truth beyond the many appearances of things.
>they want to become god
Always retards resort to this, you dont become anything you only remove false self Ego and realize the eternal absolute self(god) , there is no becoming only removing obscuration .
Its the ultimate sacrifice as you die to your self to be reborn in immortality.
Upon reading this you may be initiated into higher spiritual truths even tho you're a hylic

>>15002154
ultimate cringe.
the absolute self of each person involves both its soul/psyche and body IN HISTORY (!), you are not only spirit/atman/pneuma. YOU ARE BODY/CORPUS/SOMA AND PSYCHE/SOUL/ANIMA. you are not imprisoned in material delusion, cringe lord. you are even worse than gnostics.

For the Hindus, people have the knowledge that they have a true nature, but people are misguided on what they take as their true nature. This is why the Hindus say that people are already enlightened, they just do not know about it... The true nature of people is not the 5 senses or their objects, it is the mind, the cosmos, or later their deification of this, ie their Brahma or their Buddha, and when people realize this they are enlightened. The way to realize this is by relying on material objects which purify their minds, like sounds, logic, mantras, little beads, amulets.

Then people ask the usual question ''why the cosmos produce things which do not know that they are the cosmos?'' ie ''why are people not born directly enlightened? instead of being born unenlightened which produces lots of suffering?''
So far the Hindus have no answer to this ''question of evil''. The Hindus keep replying ''people do not know their true nature'' and that's their answer...

Mahayana is hinduism where they replaced brahma with their new idea of buddhanature. Things have a true nature this nature is just the primordial mind or the mind of a buddha.

in Buddhism, people do not have a true nature, people are not the cosmos, people are not Brahma, people are not Buddha, people are not their mind, people are not born already enlightened. In Buddhism there is only craving for pretty things and pretty ideas [ie the idea of having ''a true nature''] and lack of craving for pretty things and pretty ideas. People get enlightened when they stop craving for those. The way to get enlightened is to purify the mind, however not with objects like the Hindus do, but with the mind itself, ie all the time checking [with the mind] the behavior of the mind and then viewing the mind as it really is, which is anicca, dukkha , anatta, which triggers dispassion, which triggers liberation which triggers knowledge that dukkha is ended.

>>15002171
it's reductionism. non dualists/pantheists reduce everything to the spirit/atman and scorn body and psyche when those things are integral part of the absolute self that will be immortalized in eternity according to its action in time, for all that happens in time is preserved in eternity.

“If we are not our own, but the Lord's, it is clear to what purpose all our deeds must be directed. We are not our own, therefore neither our reason nor our will should guide us in our thoughts and actions. We are not our own, therefore we should not seek what is only expedient to the flesh. We are not our own, therefore let us forget ourselves and our own interests in as far as possible.”
― John Calvin

>>15002170
Retarded hylic or scum Archon go meditate and gain some insight
Body and mind will die only atman survives

>>15002221
>Body and mind will die and be resurrected and judged
You are not God and never will be, no matter how many mental flips and jnana you attain.

>>15002236
dualism is only brainlet perception due to faults of the mind , you must correct the mind to see clearly
You're like a cow that sees grass and knows life nothing more then subject object.
As ancient sages said it is the slow lane , nonduality is the direct path to absolute
Good luck in next life times, not gonna make it anon

>>15002221
tell me anon, you have a name, don't you? what does it represent? is the person that possess the name an illusion? you can't prove right now the person i'm talking to is an illusion and not your true self ACTING IN TIME. it's you, not your spirit who is talking to me. the person, the self conscious unity capable of love, is the true and absolute self acting in time and space, history and cosmos.

cringe! CRINGE! CRINGE! CRINGE ORIENTALIST SCHIZO LARPERS

>>15002236
based

>>15002221
Atman does not survive, my psychic friend. There is only the One but we cannot perceive of the One because the One is completely without limit and beyond all comprehensibility. There is Barbelo, but we cannot perceive Barbelo and can perceive the Mother-Father through gnosis. This is limited imperishablity. This is not atman, atman is not.

>>15002261
>dualism is only brainlet perception due to faults of the mind , you must correct the mind to see clearly
dualism and monism are both resolved in the trinity.
repent.
There is no teaching higher, truer or more beneficial than what Christ taught.

>>15002372
yes. PERSONAL SALVATION is the highest achievable goal, it's bigger than everything we can expect --- the PERSONAL SOUL will transcend history for the eternity. all the mental gymnastics will not even grant salvation, how can they expect DIVINIZATION?

ressurrection of the body refutes non-dualism, the personhood of God refutes non-dualism, genesis refutes non-dualism. Jesus ressurrected not only himself but also 3 people (at least), all this to refute both gnosticism and pantheism.

>>15002397
>PERSONAL SALVATION is the highest achievable goal,
Personal salvation is meaningless. Personal salvation is a defilement to the true soul. Salvation of All, the fullness of the All, is the goal. Christ did not show us personal salvation. Personal salvation is a delusion of ignorance offered by the yaldabaoth. Christ showed us the path towards universal salvation.

>>15002397
Correct. And even our salvation is really there to glorify God, so that he will be all in all.

>>15002421
you retroactively refuted the post above you lmao
nice

>>15002424
It provides evidence for the post if anything, unless you have absolutely no critical reading ability.

>>15002435
become christian.

>>15002416
>personal salvation is meaningless
t.

>>15001370
It's a cringe heresy of Christianity that denies the ultimately hypostatic nature of God.

>>15002447
>If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you
What God is this, that acts from ignorance and tries to frighten the Soul with torment? Christ already revealed to us the path, and conquered the hells. Yahweh can destroy the body but the Spirit in which the Father dwells cannot be grasped by him. I am not frightened, I only feel pity.

>>15002469
cringe gnostic so full of himself. thinks he's in mystical union with God. what are you? you are here shitposting, cringe larper. i'll pray for you today.

>>15002481
>Such are they who possess from above something of this immeasurable greatness, as they strain towards that unique and perfect one who exists there for them. And they do not go down to Hades. They have neither envy nor moaning, nor is death in them. But they rest in him who rests, without wearying themselves or becoming involved in the search for truth. But, they, indeed, are the truth, and the Father is in them, and they are in the Father, since they are perfect, inseparable from him who is truly good.
If I was in the Pleroma I would be there. I claim nothing for myself. My point is that you are worshiping an ignorant and ultimately impotent being compared with the Father. You are like a creature of darkness who longs after a small flame thinking it is the whole of light. What's more, you think only of your own self and call glorifying yourself 'the highest goal'.

>>15002469
So much blasphemy in this post...

>>15002499
personal salvation IS to become christ like. if i only cared about myself i wouldn't even pray for you. quote gnostic texts all you want, you are so rebellious you reject the true tradition founded on peter in favor of a dead, text-based belief discovered recently. just admit you are too lazy and selfish to follow the actual christian tradition

Dualism is the idea of body and mind being 2 different domains.
By dualisms we conceptualise things in categories, which have 2 opposite ends. This means that humans conceptualise things within a dualistic reality, which makes it understandable that dualism is an emerging factor of this.
Different philosophers went about creating systems to discern the properties of mind and substance, such as kant, aristrotele and so on.

Now is this distinction valid? We don't know, it's a metaphysical construct. The only thing we can say is that humans work under the assumption of dualities in their daily life. Philosophers just want to make sense of the unknowable.

>>15002499
>retroactively btfos all cringe gnostics within the first page

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and ***without him was not any thing made that was made***.

>>15002537
The first gospel commentary we know of was a gnostic commentary on John you absolute mongoloid.
>(In John 1:3, “All things were made through him, and without him nothing was made.”) The sentence: "All things were made through him" means the world and what is in it. It excludes what is better than the world. The Aeon (i.e. the Fullness), and the things in it, were not made by the Word; they came into existence before the Word. . . “Without him, nothing was made” of what is in the world and the creation. . . "All things were made through Him," means that it was the Word who caused the Craftsman (Demiurge) to make the world, that is it was not the Word “from whom” or “by whom,” but the one “through whom (all things were made).”. . . It was not the Word who made all things, as if he were energized by another, for "through whom" means that another made them and the Word provided the energy.
- Heracleon, a follower of Valentinius

>>15001434
*blocks your path*

>>15002533
>the true tradition
If this was the 'true tradition' why did it take 300+ years for a consensus to be reached even on Christ's precise nature within this 'tradition'?

>>15002549
>The first gospel commentary we know of
How do you know that though? Bugman science? What if the evil demiurge messed with the material world and reversed the age of the manuscripts to fool you?
>gnostic commentary on John
Sorry, I only accept Hindu commentaries on John.

>>15002569
>Hindu commentaries
based, where do I start with these? I heard "Shankara" is the best?

>>15002564
>if the tradition is true then why do some people misunderstand christ's nature
epic

>>15002549
>The first gospel commentary we know of was a gnostic commentary on John you absolute mongoloid.
so what?

>"All things were made through Him," means that it was the Word who caused the Craftsman (Demiurge) to make the world, that is it was not the Word “from whom” or “by whom,”
cringe
>>15002564
who cares about consensus? a consensus is nothing in itself, truth doesn't need a consensus to be reached. st. justin martyr was already exposing tradition by the year of 150.

your psyche is completely poisoned by modern mentality. firstly by rebellion and secondly by academic standards.

>>15002591
>your psyche is completely poisoned by modern mentality.
This. Gnosticism wouldn't even exist without modern discovery of the documents. And if the 'demiurge' can hide these documents from people for so long then he could corrupt them too.

>>15002569
You seem irrationally angry that the gnostics liked scriptural texts. John doesn't btfo the gnostics, in fact of the synoptic gospels John probably has the most gnostic elements.

>>15002609
john is not a synoptic gospel

>>15002591
>truth doesn't need a consensus to be reached
Which is why 'tradition' is meaningless because it is quite literally truth by consensus. Thanks for agreeing with me.

>>15002612
>synoptic gospels
my bad I meant canonical

>>15002614
that's a modern take on tradition. you're seeing tradition as peer reviewed consensus. the councils were not called for a consensus, they were called to fight heresies such as the ones you are fond of. already said st. justin martyr was already exposing tradition by the year of 150.

Imagine having your entire spiritual tradition revolve around you not being able to wrap your head around the prime axiom of rational knowledge. Read Plato's critical dialogues and Aristoteles' metaphysics. I used to be awe struck at the aphoristic quality of the statements such as are found in the Chandogya Upanishad and which Heraclitus expounded also. Now it appears only as reveling in your own confusion.

>>15002629
The 'exposing' literature you mention is a laughable bit of drivel that amounts to little more than name-calling and slander. I cannot read someone like Tertullian and keep a straight face.
>that's a modern take on tradition
As opposed to the traditional take, which is that tradition is right because tradition says so ? Wow, real eye opener.

>>15002609
>in fact of the synoptic gospels John probably has the most gnostic elements
lmao. john is probably the best refutation of gnosticism to date.

>>15002656
>tradition is right because tradition says so
Yes.

>>15002656
>men directly aligned with God have no basis on establishing tradition
>tradition is instead peer reviewd consensus
ok

>>15002560
Aristotle doesn't have any effective arguments that would debunk Vedantic non-dualism, he doesn't even debunk Parmenides properly
>>15002154
based

So many seething Christcucks in this thread...

>>15002614
Truth being known by the Church accepting it doesn't refute the fact that all of the dogma explicated in the councils was true before any council was even called.

>>15002692
cringe...

>>15002692
>bruuh all is an apperance bro... evne i who am telling you this bro.... even this sacred poo in loo book is an apperance bro... but trust me advaita is true....

>>15002671
Not really.
I know Catholics like to pretend early gnostics were all weirdos who just made up stuff in the desert somewhere but they were commentators with access to what would become canon, and some of them were actually well regarded in the early church community. They read scripture and quoted scripture to support their beliefs.
The primary example is probably Valentinus, who nearly became the bishop of Rome and despite Tertullian's scandalizing account most likely remained in the proto-orthodox community for the rest of his life.

>>15002713
>my true self freed from mayan delusion greets trump's true self

@15002724
>commentators with access to what would become canon
>They read scripture and quoted scripture to support their beliefs.
Literally every heretic did that...

>>15002689
This point makes no sense when all these men teach different things. That is the whole point of dogmatic commentators, to try to make sense of it and argue and approve what they want their church to be. Who would be retroactively considered the church fathers believed in a whole range of different things as well.

>>15002724
>nearly became the bishop of Rome
>nearly
lol. 'epic fail', as the kids say.

>>15002729
I have great affection for both Indians and Trump, rather than infuriating me I an delighted upon seeing the picture you posted

>>15002743
Based, India isn't even being touched by corona virus and will probably conquer the world after all the christcucks and chinks are dead.

>>15002740
It appears it was a close election. But Tertullian's account is basically that despite being a well regarded member of the community he was so seething he broke from the church entirely and started his new sect. Realistically the sect probably formed after his death when his beliefs were increasingly being considered heresy and ushered out.

>>15002738
>what they want their church to be
The Holy Spirit guides the Church into what it needs to be, not men deciding what they want it to be.
>Who would be retroactively considered the church fathers
They are only considered church fathers because of God's providence in choosing them and allowing them to be in this role because of their correct understanding of truth.

>>15002754
>It appears it was a close election.
lol. dare i say it was an 'epic fail'?

>Realistically
according to whom? some lgbt+ """"scholar"""" who says that Christ and gender do not exist?

>>15002769
>The Holy Spirit guides th
Okay. I see no point talking to a hylic any further. Good night.

>>15002782
>immaterial Third Person of the Holy Trinity
>Hylic (from Greek ύλη (hylē) "matter")

>>15002776
Are you able to go without mentioning identity politics for five minutes? If not, please go shit up another board.

>>15002782
>non dualists claim the spirit inhabits and guide everyone.
>deny the spirit guides the church fathers.

>>15002788
okay, replace that statement with any other obvious absurdity. why do you trust modern scholars and their innovations more than tradition? under what kind of delusion does this make more sense to anyone even remotely considering themselves "Christian"?

>>15002787
This is my last post to you.
I called you a hylic because you are completely incapable of understanding. You didn't even understand what hylic means in this context.
>>15002801
You do not understand guiding in this context then. This 'guiding' is clouded by ignorance, and gnosis is a process above all of understanding perfect 'guidance' to use your term, which leads towards the Father. If the church fathers did not go towards the Father, and they clearly did not because they completely butchered the early church's beliefs, then it was out of their own ignorance.

>>15002847
>gnosis is a process
>process
OH NO NO NO NO

>>15002847
mega cringe... repent confused gnostic. you don't know if you are gnostic or pantheistic...

>>15002818
Because in this case we have historical documents that make it abundantly clear Tertullian was wildly exaggerating his claims for rhetorical effect.
>b-but the Devil placed those documents! You don't know bro!
If you are going to follow this route, which some anon (possibly you) hinted at above then the burden is on you to prove that. No Christian besides the most retarded American evangelical would honestly follow that theory.

>>15002885
>we have historical documents
Those are under the domain of the evil demiurge who created the material world and allows babies to be killed. Why would I trust any document given by him?

>>15002885
>trust me bro this piece of matter proves with certainty that this material world is evil!!!!!

>>15002894
Valentinians didn't see the demiurge as evil, just imperfect compared to the One so you mischaracterized it there.
>Why would I trust any document given by him?
If this is your argument then you have no reason to believe 'tradition' either because your only exposure to it is within the material world. Following this line of though your only option would be to seek experience outside the material world which hey that's gnosticism. Thanks for playing.

>>15002908
kek. anime poster btfo the gnostic. what a time to be alive

>>15002917
>your only exposure to it is within the material world
So? I'm not a bugman, so I don't deny the material world being created by a perfect God.

>>15002928
You claim you're not a bugman then follow up with the most bugman statement imaginable.

>>15002936
Bugmen cry about the Old Testament God being evil, imperfect and anti-science all the time.
I believe he is perfect and is in fact Christ himself whenever he appears directly to people.

>>15002943
>evil, imperfect and anti-science
Based

>>15002943
Gnostics is a bit of a misnomer because there were various forms of movements that are called gnostic, however the Valentinians believed that there is a completely perfect, incomprehensible God (the One), from whom Christ is an emanation. Christ is spiritually full and showed the path to spiritual fullness.
Then there is the creator of the material world, which was the Demiurge. While some gnostic movements were extremely hostile towards the material world, it seems Valentinians were more subdued and just found it imperfect compared to the fullness of the One (which is why Christ reveals the path to spiritual fullness), and evil is a result of these imperfections stemming from ignorance of the One.
That's the basic summation.

Who do Gnostics think talked to Adam and Eve in the garden? Was it the evil demiurge who trapped him in the created human shell?

>>15002997
It depends on the movement. In the Apocryphon of John, Christ says He Himself caused them to eat.
The reason being, bear with me, that the Demiurge is tricked into losing his bit of light from the spiritual world to animate Adam which gave Adam potential capacity over the Demiurge. The Demiurge tries to keep Adam subdued by trapping him in a physical body and putting him in a physical paradise. Then he tries to get the light back, and in trying to rip it out he inadvertently creates Eve. When Adam sees Eve he has a moment of reflection because he sees the Divine in her (who he recognizes as coming from him). This is the same effect as eating from the tree of Knowledge, which causes them to yearn for spiritual fullness.
Here's a quote
>As for the tree called “The Knowledge Of Good And Evil”
It is the Epinoia of the light.
They commanded him not to eat from it,
Standing in front to conceal it,
For fear that he might look upwards to the fullness
And know the nakedness of his indecency.
[However, I caused them to eat.
I asked the Savior,
“Lord, isn’t it the serpent that caused Adam to eat?”
He smiled and replied,
“The serpent caused them to eat
in order to produce the wickedness of the desire to reproduce
that would make Adam helpful to him.”]
.... I appeared as an eagle perched on the Tree of Knowledge!
[Which is the Epinoia from the pure Providence of Light.]
In order to teach them
And raise them up from sleep’s depths.

>>15002997
>>15003090
It is a bit ambiguous, but here it seems that Christ caused them to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, which here is portrayed positively, whereas the serpent perhaps caused them to eat from the Tree of Life, which is designed to cause desire in the physical world and thus cloud perception of the spiritual.
I do know the Sethians had another version where the serpent is positively portrayed and causes them to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, but I am not sure if the serpent is identified with another figure on top of that.

It's hilarious how non-dualism makes christcucks seethe. I guess the lowtier of their spirituality really shows itself when authentic metaphysics are talked about.

>>15003124
>authentic metaphysics
look at the guenon general all you see is cringe orientalists debating buddhism vs advaita. metaphysics itself is profane religion. if you followed guenon you'd know religion is superior to metaphysics since one can't follow the esoteric doctrines without following the exoteric ones.

>>15003124
>non-dualism makes christcucks seethe.
Seems like the other way around. A personal God being the highest metaphysical reality makes all the "intellectualist" heretics seethe uncontrollably.

>>15003154
Religion is just secularized metaphysics. And Christianity is the secularisation of poor metaphysics which makes it much worse.
>>15003217
Christians seethe. Non-dualists laugh and mock the Christians for their silly beliefs.

>>15003232
>Religion is just secularized metaphysics.
completely wrong. rites predate philosophy. philosophy is secular religion. if you can't realize this you are not gonna make it.

you are this anon, right? >>15003216. pity on you

>>15002170
Why complicate ultimate simplicity

>>15003365
cause God is ultimately both complicated and simple.

>>15003232
>their silly beliefs
Such as?

Śaṅkarācārya bump

>>15002143
This is just being a vegetable or mineral. Egotist need to get over themselves and grow up.
>>15001370
Any nondualism is monism. The idea that everything is one. Not really all that complex. Try the Bible then the Quran.

>>15003217
>A personal God being the highest metaphysical reality makes all the "intellectualist" heretics seethe uncontrollably.
Advaita writings actually contain all sorts of statements condoning meditation on a qualified version of God for people who struggle to meditate on Nirguna Brahman, and this conception of a God with attributes and a personality and profound meditation on him is admitted to be one of the highest achievements of thought and spirituality short of the direct realization and consequent attainment of Nirguna Brahman. It is in fact the Christians who have come here into this thread about non-dualism to seethe, rant and proselytize.

>>15003217
this. based
>>15004291
cringe

>>15004291
>condoning meditation
Precisely. They inevitably seethe when anyone says how this "qualified" ""version"" of God isn't merely reduced to a meditation tool and is actually the highest metaphysical reality.

>>15004408
If they seethe then why is it always Christians who come into threads about Hinduism and non-dualism to attack it? It's comparatively very rare to see Hindus and non-dualists in Christianity threads attacking it, 90+% of the attacks on Christians on this board are made by atheists/buddhists

>>15004444
hindus don't even browse 4chan, anon.

>>15004471
I'm Hindu

>>15004484
in what caste were you born? you live in india, right?

>>15004444
>why is it always Christians who come into threads about Hinduism and non-dualism to attack it?
Because we are explicitly commanded by the personal incarnate Logos to spread the truth.
>It's comparatively very rare to see Hindus and non-dualists in Christianity threads attacking it
Because most Christians will rightfully see them as just another refuted pagan group attacking Christianity. Non-dualists are one of the more intelligent pagans so they see no reason to do that. They also know deep down that Christ is the truth and are afraid to truly seek him as that would completely shatter their belief in their intelligence.

>>15001398
spinoza is just brainlet neoplatonism

>>15004495
>Because we are explicitly commanded by the personal incarnate Logos to spread the truth.
>Non-dualists are one of the more intelligent pagans so they see no reason to do that.
Well if you admit that it's mostly Christians doing the attacking and that non-dualists mostly don't care as you say then maybe you should stop slandering them by saying a personal God makes them seethe uncontrollably when they really don't care

>>15004522
>a personal God makes them seethe uncontrollably
It literally does though.
>when they really don't care
They care enough to write huge texts about advaita refuting the personal God being the highest reality.

>>15001370
It’s just like dualism, except negated.

>>15004522
>mostly don't care as you say
Also, they don't care to attack in Christian threads because they know they'll lose. They do care about us being right though.

>Christianity

>>15004560
wow you truly refuted the truth with an image... now go back to pol

>>15004539
>They care enough to write huge texts about advaita refuting the personal God being the highest reality.
That's not something they really focus on. Their only motivation in opposing such a idea is that to them the Upanishads say this isn't the case, and so their refutation (only directed at other Hindus who accept the Upanishads) of this revolve around scriptural citations demonstrating that their exegesis is the right one. Advaita doesn't care one way or another if other non-Hindus want to believe in this, and in fact they regard meditation on such a God as a valid spiritual path. They do have some refutations of some of the implications of this view of God such as when they write about creation ex-nihilio or creation emerging from God as a transformation of Him are both illogical, but the idea of the Supreme God being personal in itself is not a major target of Advaita writings.

>>15004603
why do you keep acting as if one can convert to hinduism after reading the texts? as i said >>15004471 hindus don't browse 4chan. you can't be an hindu outside of india, born without a caste. it's simply larp. why do you think guenon didn't become an hindu? why do you think rama didn't become an hindu?

>>15004560
protestantism isn't christianity. the american orientalist attitude of "all religions are the same anyway lol" is protestantist in spirit, so your image is self-refuting.

>>15004603
>creation ex-nihilio is illogical
How do they "logically" refute it without using their false scripture?

>>15004672
>not true Christianity

>>15004699
>""not christianity = not true christianity""
logically refuted. one cannot be "false christianity", one can only be "not christianity.

>>15004651
>why do you keep acting as if one can convert to hinduism after reading the texts?
I have never said this, there is no formal pan-Hindu conversion process but the nearest equivalent would either be the bestowing of the sacred thread or of spiritual initiation (diksha). Non-Indians can be adopted into an Indian family and bestowed with the sacred thread in which case they would adopt the caste of their family, but this is not needed to become a Hindu however as there are many Hindu sects which give diksha to non-Indians who want to join their sect. For example the Veerashaivas (which Nisargadatta Maharaj belonged to) and the Gaudiya Vaishnavas have both been known to provide diksha to non-Indians, and there are smaller Tantric movements like the Naths and Trika which do the same. The idea that you can't convert to Hinduism is ironically enough propagated by people like Schuon in his writings because he wants you to become Muslim instead like him.
>hindus don't browse 4chan.
I've spoken with multiple of them before, Indian flags can be seen often on /int/ and /pol/
>you can't be an hindu outside of india, born without a caste. it's simply larp.
Wrong, one can be authentically initiated into it and be a Hindu in whatever country one wants to be. Both Bali and Nepal are majority Hindu btw.
>why do you think guenon didn't become an hindu?
Because his favorite type of Hindu metaphysics was traditional Advaita which requires asceticism but he didn't want to renounce as a monastic and instead wanted to be initiated but still live in a house and raise a family. Other Hindu sects offer this but so does Sufism, which it seems it was more convenient for him to choose. In one letter he explicitly says becoming Muslim was a matter of 'spiritual convenience'
>why do you think rama didn't become an hindu?
No idea? The man who purchased Guenon's house for him in Cairo was an English Traditionalist who traveled to India and was initiated there

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Levy_(philosopher)

>>15004765
>there are many Hindu sects which give diksha to non-Indians who want to join their sect
Are there any non-degenerate ones though? And would this be possible pre-modernity by actual legitimate hindus?

>>15004765
>>15004651
Here is an interview with the Jagadguru (spiritual leader) of the Jangamwadi Veerashaiva temple in Varanasi India. In the interview he confirms that he personally offers initiation to non-Indians

Interviewer: "Some people say, that a foreigner can not truly become a Hinduist, because he does not have the gotra (ancestral lineage); that it is possible to become a hindu only if you were born in an Indian family. However, you give traditional initiation to the foreigners – what is your opinion about this (can a Western man be considered to be Hindu the way the Indian one is considered)? Does a Western receive the same initiation in virashivaism as does an Indian?"

Jagadguru Mahaswamiji: "Yes, foreigner receive just the same initiation as Indians do. There are two kinds of traditions in Hinduism – those based on Vedas and those based on Agamas. Vedas and Agamas are equally acknowledged as the sources of sacred knowledge. Both of them originated from God: Vedas are called to be the breathing of God, and Agamas – are his words. Shaiva Agamas are the dialogs of Shiva and Parvati. The system described in Vedas is based on social division (based on varnas: brahmana, kshatriya, vaysha, and shudra). Only men who are representatives of the three varnas (brahmana, kshatriya, and vaysha) qualify for initiation. In Agamas another kind of initiation is described – diksha. This initiation can be received by anyone regardless of gender and social position. In this case, mind condition of a person is important, his aspiration for self-actualization. The teacher watches the student, assesses his level of readiness, and according to this gives him diksha. In Agamas it is said: “Having appraised the level of God energy presence in a person (the devotion of a person) initiation should be given to him.” (“Shaktipatam samalokya dikshaya yojaed amum.”) In this way, in virashivaism and other traditions, based on Agamas, origin and citizenship of a person have no importance."

https://wildyogi.info/en/issue/gauri-interview-shri-chandrashekhar-mahaswamiji-spiritual-teacher-shivaite-tradition

>>15001445
Neutral monism and dual-aspect theory are the same thing.

>>15004794
>Are there any non-degenerate ones though?
Yes, Veerashaivism offers initiation to foreigners and is a type of non-dualist Shaivite faith going back to around the 12th-13th century that draws from both the Tantric Agamas as well as the Upanishads. Guenon liked both Advaita and Vishishtadvaita and the metaphysics of Veerashaivism is somewhat in the middle between the two. In fact, as the last philosophical movement of Shaivism after Trika and Nath it considers itself to be the final culmination and perfection of the Tantras and Shaivism.
>And would this be possible pre-modernity by actual legitimate hindus?
Yes, as long as someone was able to speak the same language and communicate with them and hence display that they were mature etc there is no reason why someone in ancient or medieval India could not have been adopted into a family along with their caste and bestowed with a sacred thread and/or initiated into a Tantric/Shaivite sect which as a rule mostly don't care at all about caste.

>>15001445
OP means non-dualist in an ontological sense of non-difference between God and the individual Soul, not in the context of theories of consciousness. The non-dualist Advaita actually admits a form of interactionist dualism insofar as its explanation of consciousness goes since it admits that mental activity is formless and occurs in the realm of subtle manifestation and is separate from non-consciousness matter existing on the gross plane of manifestation.

>>15002917
Where to start with Valentinian gnosticism? Recommended background reading?

>>15005190
>Where to start with Valentinian gnosticism?
Join your local new age group

>>15005204
wtf I love anti-intellectualism now

>>15004508
can you even go lower than this?

Bump for more Guenon

>>15004484
Not hindu(east european) but enjoy advaita vedanta philosophy as it confirms my journey

>>15002154
Chasing after enlightenment through meditation is pointless.

You only achieve enlightenment when you realize being unenlightened is of no benefit.

Holy based. The similarities between the Desert Fathers and Mothers in early Christian tradition and the Advaita Vedanta advocates are incredible. You gotta look into it. May God bless you all, anons.

>>15006176
Thanks, you too anon. Here is a good book in case you didn't already know about it which touches on that topic, around half of the book discusses various Christian mystics and theologians

https://www2.uned.es/dpto-hdi/History%20of%20Non-dual%20Meditation%20Methods.pdf

>>15006027
>Chasing after enlightenment through meditation is pointless.
True
That why u infuse meditation with daily life karma yoga or zen, unhinged awareness in everything

>>15005767
This, more Guenon and less of this hylic cringe

>>15005767
>>15006305
Brothers, there is always need for more Guénon...

>>15006387
Based...

>>15006387
Based

bump

>>15005190
>Where to start with Valentinian gnosticism? Recommended background reading?
Here you go, my friend.
http://gnosis.org/library/valentinus/index.html
I don't think Valentinus believed everything was as mythopoeically symbolic as the guy who wrote the introduction says, but it is a good summary of what we know about his teachings, plus a collection of the writings we have and the gospels they probably used.

Based

>>15004291>>15004408

Advaita is late hinduism and 100% wrong on anything. literally complete horsehist 1000 years after any relevant writings

>>15010061
Cringe

>>15010069
Advaita had next to no influence on actual hinduism, despite what the larping guenon autist want you to believe

>>15010061
Cope

>>15010116
Actual every Vedantist after Shankara closely followed his Brahma Sutra commentary and many of them basically repeat a lot of his arguments word for word, he was extremely influential.

>>15011633
cope. everyone called him a crypto Buddhist.

>>15011738
because how else would they justify their ignoring of the principle of maya as clearly taught in Upanishad verses such as:

Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 2.5.19: "The Lord on account of Maya is perceived as manifold

Svetasvatara Upanishad 4.9: "Brahman projects the universe through the power of Its maya. Again, in that universe Brahman as the jiva is entangled through maya."

>>15009463
thank you anon

>>15011738
This. The term is "pracchana bauddha" (hidden buddhist). Even advaitins call Shankara that, and admit he was hugely influenced by Mahayana Buddhism, among other things.

A few uneducated Hindu nationalists claim otherwise, but see pic related. It's the overwhelming consensus.

>>15012579
>A few uneducated Hindu nationalists claim otherwise, but see pic related. It's the overwhelming consensus.
wrong hylic, the important orientalist scholars Paul Deussen and Max Muller both wrote that they considered the Upanishads to have a consistent Advaitic teaching to them as have some modern scholars.

>Advaita Vedanta, associated with the name of the great Shankaracharya is rightly regarded as logically the most consistent and spiritually the most advanced philosophy of India. All schools of Vedanta claim to be based on the Upanisads, but the claim is fully justified only in the case of Advaita Vedanta. Though the Upanisads are not logico-philosophical treatises in the strict sense of the term, yet undoubtedly they have been acclaimed as predominantly philosophical and as such they do have a central philosophy of their own. Shankara has very clearly and logically proved that this central philosophy is Advaita. The teachers of other schools of Vedanta, mainly theistic, have fathered their respective views on the Upanisads to claim the sanction of the Revealed Text. One may or may not agree with Advaita; one may freely choose any other school of Vedanta or any other system of philosophy as more satisfactory; but one cannot logically deny that Shankara’s interpretation is the correct interpretation and that Advaita is the central teaching of the Upanisadic philosophy."

- Chandradhar Sharma, author of A Critical Survey of Indian Philosophy

>>15012611
Sharma is in the above image and admits Shankara is a crypto-buddhist. Muller admits that Hinduism was hugely influenced by Buddhism. Deussen is a known advaita apologist and nobody relies on him. All major scholars of advaita admit it's massively influenced by Mahayana (and many other things).

Nobody agrees with you except other uneducated Hindu nationalists on Quora.com. Your main thinkers are a French Muslim convert who married a 9yo girl, and a Swiss Muslim convert who moved to Bloomington Indiana to start a sex cult where he fondled underage children. You're an American who follows a Theosophy spinoff version of Mahayana Buddhism that everybody in India calls "crypto-Buddhism." You couldn't be less Hindu if you tried.

>>15012695
Wrong hylic, Advaita is the clear teachings of the Upanishads, actually competent scholars like Chandradhar Sharma, A. E. Gough and Deussen have pointed all of this out and people outside of academia who could read Sanskrit like Coomaraswamy and Guenon have confirmed it also.Buddhism is a degenerated version of Upanishadic teachings that attempted to do an Advaita 2.0 but it failed and fractured into moralism and nihilism. Deussen was extremely influential in Indology, it's not true that nobody relies on him.

>>15012781
*missed Duessen's name, even if he says later hinduism was influenced by buddhism, he rightly agrees the Upanishads are Advaitic

Non-dualism is the idea of trying to get away from binary opposites. It's that simple. I can explain to you the Mahayana Buddhist rationale, but there are other non-dualist schools of thought out there.

In Mahayana, the idea of non-dualism arises from the idea of the dependent-coarising (you might know the five aggregates). Basically you can't objectively construct the opposite of something because it becomes a thing dependent on other factors and in relation to other things. There is no opposite of something that is relational. Mahayanas instead suggest attempting to understand what your own bias towards something is in tandem of with understanding how it arose from other things and how they define it still.

>>15012781
>>15012790
I guess we have to agree to disagree then. Posting some more info so others can decide for themselves:

The only remaining advaitins left in India are the lingering remnants of theosophy-influenced neovedanta. They are almost entirely upper class westernized expats who are barely Indian themselves. There's a reason why most advaita adherents don't live in India and aren't Indian. It's not Hindu.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_and_Theosophy

>Goodrick-Clarke wrote that "educated Indians" were particularly impressed by the Theosophists' defense of their ancient religion and philosophy in the context of the growing self-consciousness of the people, directed against the "values and beliefs of the European colonial powers." Ranbir Singh, the "Maharajah of Kashmir" and a "Vedanta scholar", sponsored Blavatsky and Olcott's travels in India. Sirdar Thakar Singh Sandhanwalia, "founder of the Singh Sabha," became a master ally of the Theosophists.[55][note 16] Prof. Stuckrad noted the wave of solidarity which covered the Theosophists in India had powerful "political implications." He wrote, citing in Cranston's book, that, according to Prof. Radhakrishnan, the philosopher and President of India, the Theosophists "rendered great service" by defending the Hindu "values and ideas"; the "influence of the Theosophical Movement on general Indian society is incalculable."[57]

>Bevir wrote that in India Theosophy "became an integral part of a wider movement of neo-Hinduism", which gave Indian nationalists a "legitimating ideology, a new-found confidence, and experience of organisation." He stated Blavatsky, like Dayananda Sarasvati, Swami Vivekananda, and Sri Aurobindo, "eulogised the Hindu tradition", however simultaneously calling forth to deliverance from the vestiges of the past. The Theosophical advocacy of Hinduism contributed to an "idealisation of a golden age in Indian history." The Theosophists viewed traditional Indian society as the bearer of an "ideal religion and ethic."[26]

>In Prof. Olav Hammer's opinion, Blavatsky, trying to ascribe the origin of the "perennial wisdom" to the Indians, united "two of the dominant Orientalist discourses" of hers era.

>>15012801
>The only remaining advaitins left in India are the lingering remnants of theosophy-influenced neovedanta. They are almost entirely upper class westernized expats who are barely Indian themselves. There's a reason why most advaita adherents don't live in India and aren't Indian. It's not Hindu.
There is no source for this claim you are just pulling it out of your ass, Advaita is one of the major schools of Hindu philosophy, and Advaita temples are found in every region of India. The Advaita-based Smarta Tradition is considered to be one of the main sect of Hinduism and is active in various regions of India. In any case Advaita is aimed at an intellectual elite and is not meant for the masses, it's success is not measured by pure numbers.

>Contemporary teachers are the orthodox Jagadguru of Sringeri Sharada Peetham; the more traditional teachers Sivananda Saraswati (1887–1963), Chinmayananda Saraswati,[web 14] and Dayananda Saraswati (Arsha Vidya);[web 14] and less traditional teachers such as Narayana Guru.[web 14] According to Sangeetha Menon, prominent names in 20th century Advaita tradition are Shri Chandrashekhara Bharati Mahaswami, Chandrasekharendra Saraswati Swamigal, Sacchidānandendra Saraswati.[web 11]

>Medieval era scholars such as Vedanta Desika and Vallabhacharya recognized Smarta as competing with Vaishnavism and other traditions. According to Jeffrey Timm, for example, in verse 10 of the Tattvarthadipanibandha, Vallabhacharya states that, "Mutually contradictory conclusions are non-contradictory when they are considered from their respective contexts, like Vaishnava, Smarta, etc."[31]

>>15012913
>In any case Advaita is aimed at an intellectual elite and is not meant for the masses, it's success is not measured by pure numbers.

Ohhh, so that's why it's almost entirely followed by non-Indians and American LARPers on the internet, considered heretical by almost all Indians, and called "crypto-Buddhism" by virtually every expert.

That's convenient!

Here's a fun story about Guenon's #1 disciple, Frithjof Schuon, another western non-Hindu:
>On October 11th 1991, Frithjof Schuon, the leader of an international religious order, was indicted on the felony charge of child molestation. committed under "cult pressure and influence". The indictment, passed down by a five member Grand Jury, headed by Lucy Cherbas, stated:
>"that Frithjof Schuon... did perform fondling or touching [on three girls] 15 years of age, 14 years of age and 13 years of age, respectively, with the intent to arouse or satisfy sexual desires of Frithjof Schuon, in violation of I.C. 35-42 43. [And that] said persons were compelled to submit to touching by force or imminent threat of force, to wit: by undue cult influences and cult pressures, in violation of 35-42-4-8."

>Jesus Garcia Varela, a high ranking inner circle member of the cult, had been investigated by the Louisville Police in 1991 for nude photos of his 2 young daughters. He escaped prosecution of this episode by claiming that it was a common practice in Spain to visually record a girl's puberty.

>Michael Fitzgerald's son was present at the Gatherings. The boy, then perhaps 14, had been made to watch his mother and her sister, Jennifer Casey, dance nude for Schuon at one of the Gatherings.

>>15012943
>hhh, so that's why it's almost entirely followed by non-Indians and American LARPers on the interne
I just named you various Indian teachers of Advaita and pointed out there are many Advaita and Smarta temples as well as smaller non-Smarta Advaita sects across India, but you just ignore the facts and just keep posting unsourced claims that you made up. I suppose it's too much to expect someone to be honest and intelligent when speaking to a hylic.

>>15013142
So it's a tiny crypto-buddhist sect heavily influenced by Theosophy, like I said.

>>15012796
>Non-dualism is the idea of trying to get away from binary opposites.
So Derrida and deconstruction was right all along?

>>15013753
sure thing hylic, have fun with your degenerated Protestant-tier moralism
>>15013766
pic rel is on lib-gen

>>15013863
>degenerated Protestant

That's Theosophy though, which had a massive influence on modern Indian Vedanta. See >>15012801

>tfw advaita is universally rejected by hindus as being buddhism in disguise
>tfw its only followers live in america, have christian parents, and have never been to india

>>15013947
why do you think people even care about your posts?

/lit/ is going to talk about Advaita anyway, anyone who looks at your post just sees an angry and bitter shill saying "reeee stop liking what I don't like!"

>>15001370
>Any good books to read on the topic?
The Self-Aware Universe.
It's got everything in it. Dreams, extended allegories, physics, bizarre Mexican science experiments, Hinduism, more physics, tours through different schools of philosophy, meditation, and more physics.
Ironically he'll eventually argue for "spiritual monism" but not before five or six chapters of hard cases for the "mind-body" split. I love his arguments, love his evidence disagree with his ultimate case.

>>15013972
You care, because you know that no matter what you post, it remains true that virtually everybody, from experts to Indians themselves, thinks Advaita is "crypto-Buddhism."

Your religion is an e-religion, and you're a non-Hindu roleplayer who lives in the US. You've been here for years and all you've done is irritate people and make them hate you. And after all that, the religion you've pinned your little internet personality to is actually a crypto-buddhism set up by Theosophy. I just find that really funny.

You don't even know much about Advaita itself, you just quote wikipedia articles and commentaries in English.

>>15013999
>it remains true that virtually everybody, from experts to Indians themselves, thinks Advaita is "crypto-Buddhism
wow, that must be why people on /lit/ keep talking about non-dualism and taking an interest in it and why you post your shill rantings in every thread only to have most people ignore them except for 1 or 2 people who reply just to say you are retarded

>>15014029
I'm not shilling by simply referring to the consensus of scholars and Indians themselves.

There's nothing wrong with taking an interest in non-dualism. I am interested in non-dualism too, although not in a theosophist/buddhist way like you. Ultimately though advaita is not a very good interpretation of the philosophy of the Upanishads, as
>>15012695
>>15012579
>>15012801
these images show. Otherwise, the vast majority of Hindus (philosophers and currently practicing religious people) wouldn't regard it as a heretical innovation.

>>15014043
All you do is talk shit. You never reveal the mysterious truth that non dualism is distracting us from. Cringe hylic. Cringe.

>>15014056
There's nothing mysterious about saying that you should read actual scholarship and listen to actual Hindus, and not solely read Theosophy-influenced westerners from the 1930s.

Remember, Guenon's primary disciple was a child molesting fuckup: >>15012943

>>15006387
this but unironically
>>15006176
agreed

>>15014056
it's better to just stop replying to him, he obviously has some weird disorder where he gets a dopamine rush everytime people reply to him to argue, the less we reply to him the more posts we'll have for actual good conversation before we reach the bump limit

>>15014084
I'm not looking for replies, feel free to ignore me. I just like how easy it is to make a single post proving the connections between Advaita and Mahayana, and the modern Advaita revival and Theosophy. Nobody said you had to argue with it. Just go about your theosophy and let people who actually read scholarship have easy access to the scholarship (which overwhelmingly says Advaita = Mahayana ripoff).

I just figure it's helpful for people getting into Vedanta for the first time to know that virtually all Indians, and all Vedantins outside of Advaita itself, immediately thought Advaita was crypto-buddhism as soon as it appeared and continue to think this.

From the moment in which the superimpositions are removed the truthknower enters
immediately into that which permeates everywhere, as water in water, air in air, fire in fire.

The fulfillment after which there is nothing to desire, the happiness beyond which there is no
greater happiness, the understanding above which there is no higher understanding, may one
know that is Brahman!

The object of vision, beyond which no further vision can be desired, the being in union with
which no further birth is possible, the knowledge beyond which one needs no further knowledge,
may one know that is Brahman!

That which fills all superior, intermediate, and inferior worlds, being, awareness, bliss, one
without a second, infinite, eternal, may one know that is Brahman!

That which is designated in the Vedantic texts as the timeless being which renders illusory
all which is not Him, that permanent bliss, may one know that is Brahman!

Admitted to a portion of the bliss of that being which is eternal happiness, Brahma and the
other gods attain a partial happiness.

All things rest in Brahman and He moves all things; He is universally diffused through
everything, like butter in the mass of milk.

That which is neither small nor large, neither short nor long, neither subject to birth nor
death, that which is without form, without qualities, without color, without name, may one know
that is Brahman!

That by the splendor of which the sun and the stars shine while not being illuminated by
them, that which illuminates all things, may one know that is Brahman!

Penetrating everywhere within and without, illuminating the whole universe, Brahman shines
from afar like a globe of iron rendered incandescent by a flame.

Brahman is not of this world; nothing in reality is, but Him. If anything appears to be other
than Him, it is but a vain show, like a mirage in the desert.

All that is seen, all that is heard, is Brahman. Through understanding this, Brahman is
contemplated as the real, aware, nondual being.

The eye of knowledge contemplates the being which is life, intelligence, and all-pervading
happiness; but the eye of ignorance cannot contemplate That, just as a person who is blind
cannot perceive the shining sun.

The mind, enlightened by sacred tradition and other means, warmed by the fire of
knowledge, and freed from all impurities, becomes brilliant as gold purified by fire.

When Atman, the sun of understanding, rises in the space of the heart, it disperses
darkness; permeating all and sustaining all, it shines, and all is light.

He who undertakes the pilgrimage towards his own self, the unique Atman, going
everywhere without regard to the state of the sky, the country, or the weather, indifferent to heat
and cold, and acquiring eternal happiness; free from impurity, such a one becomes all-knowing,
all-pervading and immortal.

- Śaṅkarācārya (pbuh), Atma-Bodha

Question XII.

How are eternal and temporal separate,
That one is the world, and the other God?

Answer XII.

Eternal and temporal are not separate from one another.
For in that Being this non-existent has its being.
The first is all in all, the other is like the 'Anka,
Save "The Truth" no names have things answering to them.
Not being to become existent—this is impossible,
But real Being in point of existence is imperishable.
Neither does this become that, nor that this.
All difficulties are now plain before you;
The whole world is merely an imaginary thing,
It is like one point whirled round in a circle.
Go! whirl round a single spark of fire,
And from its quick motion you will see a circle.
Though one be counted again and again,
Yet surely one becomes not many by this counting.
Cast away the saying "What is other than Allah"
By your own reason separate that from this.
How can you doubt that this is a dream?
For duality by the side of unity is a pure delusion.
Not being is single like being,
All plurality proceeds from attribution.
The manifestation of differences and plurality of things
Proceed from the chameleon contingent.
Since the Being in all of them is One,
They all bear witness to the unity of "The Truth"

- Mahmoūd Shabestarī

>tfw hlyic Christians invade the thread
>get BTFO from all sides
>chad non-dualists continue sensible discussion

bump

bumping to comment later...

>>15001370

What makes Guenons initiation more primary than any arbitrary initiation? Does he claim its the Oldest? Best? Strongest? Most Universal? Most Durable? What is it that makes this genealogy superior to any other?

>>15015394
he didn't claim anything special about it

>>15015394
Sorry I didn't read the question fully, he most likely considered his initiation into Taoism and Sufism legitimate because those by were both with specific eastern orders that have a long history and which were not invented recently for pseudospiritual purposes, unlike all the 'gnostic' and 'rosicrucian' intiations etc common at the time, some of which Guenon received but which he apparently realized was a joke and he never devoted attention to them after he got into eastern stuff

>>15002481
>thinks he's in mystical union with God
> i'll pray for you today.

Too blind to even see the irony.

>>15004547
If your goal is to make Christians look bad then you are performing admirably.

>>15015433
Do you even understand what is being discussed and how heterodox that is? Anon is claiming a pantheistic view that necessarily denies condemnation.

>>15002581
You heard correctly, start here

https://estudantedavedanta.net/Eight-Upanisads-Vol-1.pdf
https://estudantedavedanta.net/Eight-Upanisads-vol2.pdf

>>15016057
heavens to betsy! as my grandma says

bump

Bump for interest

>Thus, of al-Ghazâlî's Persian commentary on the Mishkât, namely, Fadâ'il al-Anâm, Zaehner remarks 'Here at last Ghazâlî forgets to worry about the orthodoxy he usually chooses to parade, and declares himself a non-dualist of whom Śaṅkara himself might have been proud.'

based...

Bump

>>15002652
>the prime axiom of rational knowledge.
such as?

>>15002170
This is the correct take from the abrahamic perspective. Nothing in the Bible contradicts this. As a matter of fact, most of the Bible supports this notion.

>>15002261
As Kierkegaard stated, we are synthesis, not parts. We are both matter and anima/divine breath while being neither. We are the unstable byproduct of the union between the eternal and the momentary. That which always is the case and that which is always becoming. Only through a reunion with God we, as spirit, could ever hope to attain eternity. The difference between our views is that christians speak of eternity as spirit/synthesis, not as anima, simply because we are not anima.

>>15019550
With all due respect, most of us already understand what the Christian position is and we simply don't care, this is not a thread about Christianity but it's for discussion of non-dualism.

>>15019571
This, but not crypto-buddhist advaita shit. Let's talk about some actual interesting non-dualism.

holy based...

>>15019571
I understand that. I just want you to realize that in the end we are all taking ontology out of our asses. We are relying on sacred texts, profane reasoning, intuition and the interpretations of these texts by those we consider authorities. I honestly believe that your views of reality regarding this subject are internaly coherent. I've read enough of Guenon and talked with enough gnostics and neoplatonists to sense that. I am just trying to make the same case for my view. I am not claiming anything past internal coherence and a reasonable interpretation of our holy texts.

>>15006224
not him but thanks for the link, it looks really good

>>15001370

Level 1: The Rational Skeptic™ position: Everything is matter, consciousness is just brain chemicals or something

Level 2: Dualism: There can be no materialist explanation of consciousness. The phenomenon of subjective awareness is unparalleled in the external world we perceive, there is no evidence is is caused by anything material, there are only correlations between the mind and brain activity.
We must therefore conclude that there is a second aspect of reality beyond the material world. This other reality might coincide with mystical accounts of a "spirit realm" or "astral plane" or some such thing, we cannot rule out the possibility.

Level 3: AUMMMMMMMMMM: The underlying reality of what we call the physical universe is mind. Western science is only now coming around to what they call "simulation theory", an understanding of the universe in which information is the actual substrate, not merely a representation of "real" particles and waves.
We are all kinks in a continuous tapestry of consciousness which comprises all of conscious and non-conscious reality. Adonai.

Brothers is this the right thread to talk about Guenon (pbuh) in

>>15020426
Level 5
All guenonposts are made by demons

>replies: 209
>posters: 38
yep, i’m thinking this is guénonian schizophrenia

>>15019470
"traps are not gay"

>>15001370
All you faggots need to watch this, good primer on Evola and Guenon
https://youtu.be/07Ien1qo_qI

>>15020956
too long wont watch
rec something shorter

>>15020426
>The underlying reality of what we call the physical universe is mind
mind is not Mind though. Eastern philosophy moved past Yogacara hundreds of years ago.

>>15021426
>Eastern philosophy moved past Yogacara hundreds of years ago.
thank god that stuff is nonsensical garbage desu
>>15020654
yes brother

based

>>15020426
Level GUENON (PBUH): All is Guenon (pbuh) manifesting as different appearances.

>>15024075
at last I truly see

>>15025245
meant to reply to >>15024312

>>15025245
kinda based...
Poobah...

Non dually based

i've reached the conclusion that non-dualism is demonic

>>15027304
"I and my Father are one" - John 10:30

>>15027579
Jesus was God and resurrected in flesh as will resurrect us. He was not a mere non-dualist

>>15027579
>him being one in one manner means he cannot also be distinct in a different manner
how very dualistic of you...