/lit/ - Literature

Read Jung and Eliade

>>14974730
top tier troll topic, i wish i would've thought about it first

>>14974730
most apolgetic books in english are naturally, either christian or jewish, rarely, muslim.

>>14974730
easy

>>14974730
if you’re not forced from birth you’re not gonna make it, larper

>>14974730
If you aren't born in to it you won't be able to believe in the things that you have no reason to believe in and need to be taken on faith

You can try force yourself but eventually you'll have to admit you don't believe

>>14974909
/thread

>>14974933
>>14974925
>this level of cope
What a tragic thing it is to not be one of God's elect.

>>14975169
Why don't you believe in the eternality of the Quran or Muhammad's ascent to heaven?

>>14974730
The Bhagavad Gita

>>14975209
>ternality of the Quran or Muhammad's ascent to heaven
Not all of us follow the cult of the pedophile sandnigger

>>14975398
You would if you were born in it.

Judaism. Christianity and Islam are just fan fiction.

Guenon, Schuon, and other Traditionalist authors.

If you’re a Westerner, either the traditional religion practiced by your ethnicity, Catholicism, or Orthodoxy are your primary options with the caveat that you should take them more seriously than the form the modern west presents them to you. Sunni and Shia Islam as well as Theravada and Mahayana Buddhism are viable as well but nonetheless present challenges to Westerners. Others which would be viable are likely too inaccessible for the modern man in the West.

>>14975487
The fact that you're left with Catholicism and orthodoxy as the main viable choices should be enough evidence that guenons teachings don't lead anywhere good

If you were never raised in Catholicism , it is still a very foreign thing to most people. Islam because of its simplicity would be less foreign to most modern western people born without a religion

>>14974730
This is a fantastically phrased question.

>>14974909
cringe

>>14975670
Would you add more substance to that? What is your issue with Catholicism and Orthodoxy specifically? Christianity is arguably the most universal religion conceivable, even more than Islam and I don’t see how it could at all be considered foreign to someone raised in the West.

>>14975698
trinity, god becoming flesh and eucharist would probably be some stumbling blocks for a deracinaated westerner

>>14974730
>>14975487
I just re-read the OP. I realize now you’re asking which is correct, not which one to join. The Traditionalist perspective is that many are correct as they are all essentially paths up a mountain. At the base they diverge across a wide base, with some being accessible to certain groups and others not so much, but they all start to merge upon ascent and inevitably meet upon the same mountain peak.

I read a lot of Kierkegaard and the eastern Church fathers to build my faith.

This book is kinda good too.

>>14974730
Read a lot, pray, and persevere. Don't just read the core texts, read apologetics and stuff as well.
t. Zoroastrian

>>14974909
Low IQ cringe.

>>14974730

Every single book that exists. After 1k+ you start to get a vague idea, and if you're smart you'll have enough of a solid understanding to just know. Then you keep reading, because why would you give up the hobby that enlightened you? Now it's just for fun.

Rereads on dense material can count.

>>14975705
Sorry. I fail to see how this is a stumbling block at all. Perhaps you could elaborate more? From my perspective, the concept of trinity isn’t particularly hard to grasp nor is the concept of the embodiment of spiritual presence. I don’t see how deracination plays a factor at all. Not everyone who participates needs to penetrate the deeper meanings of these. In fact, that is necessarily the case.

>>14975431
Exactly, Christ cucks are fetal alcohol, born retards. Can't see the double standards in anything, and how fucking arbitrary their beliefs are.

>>14974730
Islam = Quran + Hadiths, Christianity is just the Bible. If you want obvious source material. Imo though, the Quran has better internal consistency than the Bible. Because there's no major divide like the new testament. Causing a theological loop hole otherwise.

>>14975773
Chiming in here

>Qur'an
>consistent
huh?

>>14975773
Hadiths are all bidah.

>>14975784
Compared to the Bible? Yes.

>>14975789
>Hadiths are all bidah.
Based brother.

>>14975792
What are you confused about?

>>14975792
Not really, the Qur'an looks even messier
Muslims can't argue for shit, Christianity is just kind of confusing and messy but they can try
That meme doesn't really work though because they don't believe that

>>14975801
Nothing? I'm familiar with both religions/scripture. And Islam is just more coherent and grounded. Even a world renown Rabbi, hundreds of years ago could see it being better than Christianity.

>>14975789
The Hadiths are a crucial part to Islam, Sunnah wouldn't exist without them. Or any instructions on prayer. Some are obviously bs though.

>>14975819
>Nothing?
So it's not confusing as you say.

>some rabbi said
who cares? are you jewish?

>>14975808
The Quran has a lot of problems, I agree. Just not the same shit show you see with the Bible.

>>14974730
The only religions/theologies that make any sense are Simulationism and Singularitarianism. If a god really does exist/will exist, it's probably a superintelligent AI.

>>14975838
The Bible obviously isn't confusing, just not impressive or convincing.

>who cares

Guy is a world renown figure, still remembered for his commentaries. Lots of people I guess.

>>14975853
Some religions are better than others, and only 1 is correct.

>>14974730
The Quran.

>>14974730
All religions are the same, just pick a God and pray

>>14974730
if you think that there's a 'correct religion', you're already a jew-fucked retard and it's almost too late for you

>>14975842
I'd definitely say that Islam is far messier
The Trinity is confusing and all but still

>>14975670
The other guy who replied wasn't me.

The stuff about god becoming a cracker and wine is stupid. No modern person will believe that unless they were born being told that all the time.

The whole thing about how we need to be saved because adam and eve sinned and sin is infinitely bad so only could be forgiven if god became a man then died, is stupid. Islam makes more sense (I'm not a muslim), it just says none of that is real, god can just forgive your sins and he forgave adam and eve. This makes more sense to some one who wasn't raised with a religion. Why go with the convoluted BS christian thing over the islamic one which is more logical and sensible.

the one and only bad thing about islam is that they don’t drink. truly a retarded religion

>Following religions instead of following a direct path to god without dogma
The journey to eternal self starts within and ends within
Good luck in next lifetime dualists cucks

>>14975754
When I first heard that Catholics and Orthodox believe the cracker literally becomes the body of Jesus, I couldn't believe they actually believe that.

>>14976175
it's within and without, faggot

>>14976258
Its only within, cuck

>>14976094
>No modern person will believe that
>modern person
OH NO NO NO NO NO

>>14976175
>The journey to eternal self starts within and ends within
Is this true and worthy of being taught as true? If so then you found a dogma.

>>14974730
Islam was debunked at numerous ecumenical councils. They're just a nestorianized/arianized sect of Christianity. Follow it if you want, but you've been warned.

>>14976346
We are modern people though. When given the option between god becoming a cracker and wine and all this jewish sin-redemption-mysticism bs, or the simplicity of islam, islam makes more sense. And I'm not a muslim.

>>14976371
>We are modern people though.
Nope, not me. I wasn't raised in it but have no problem believing that the Eucharist becomes Christ's flesh.
>islam makes more sense
Truth isn't contingent on it making "more sense" to deracinated and bugmanized westerners.

>>14976377
>Truth isn't contingent on it making "more sense" to deracinated and bugmanized westerners.

If it doesnt make sense, then why believe in it? Because some faggot priest who licks nigger feet told you to?

>I wasn't raised in it but have no problem believing that the Eucharist becomes Christ's flesh.

Why do you believe it?

>>14976408
>If it doesnt make sense, then why believe in it?
It only doesn't make sense to bugmanized westerners who were explicitly brainwashed against belief in anything supernatural. It doesn't make sense only if you don't understand it or have faulty assumptions about who God is or what he can/cannot do.
>Why do you believe it?
Because I believe in the divinity of Christ and in the irrerancy of his message as it was canonized by the Church he established. If you believe this, everything else follows naturally if you just submit your faulty intellect to him.

>>14976428
>I believe in the divinity of Christ and
why?

>Church he established

How do you know that? Because the book that the church compiled said so?

>bugmanized westerners who were explicitly brainwashed against belief in anything supernatural

That doesn't apply to me.

>about who God is or what he

You mean the Jewish storm god, Yahweh

>>14976462
It isn't symbolic. They actually believe it becomes the body of christ. They have things like eucharistic adoration where they literally worship the fucking cracker as if its god.

>>14976178
They don’t actually believe that. At least, the wiser ones don’t. It’s a symbolic rite.

>>14976473
>>14976475
I’m a Roman Catholic. I went to Catholic school. They don’t actually believe that. It’s a symbolic rite to represent the embodiment of spiritual presence within ourselves.

why is religion correct OP?

>>14976497
Dont you know anything about your own religion? Transubstantiation?

>>14976497
>>14976475
I think you should go and a priest what the church says about it. You'll be surprised.

>>14976475
We believe it is his body and blood but in a way that is ineffable and mysterious. We don't think in terms of literal doctrine of transubstantiation like Catholics or ignore the force of scripture and just symbolize it like prots.
t. Orthodox.

They are both correct.

>>14976507
What about it?

>>14974736
based

>>14976542
It means the cracker is literally jesus according to the catholic church.

>>14976518
I think I know what a priest would say but priests and it doesn’t really matter. Priests and the church say a lot of unfortunate things these days. They said many other things for a long time before.

>>14976520
We believe the bread and blood is transubstantiated into the body and blood of Christ. This isn’t interpreted as a transformation of matter. This is the change of the substance of the bread and the wine into the body and blood of Christ while the appearance of body and blood remains. The essence beneath the thing is transubstantiated into something that no less appears as a cracker and wine.

>>14976561
See
>>14976602
The essence of the bread is transubstantiated while the visible appearance of bread remains. If your objection is that the bread doesn’t literally material, most Christians don’t believe that that.

A small group of Catholics maintain that the power of the miracle is diminished especially post-Vatican 2

>>14974933
You sure about that infidel?

>>14974730
Christianity is mostly correct, Islam is completely correct.

>>14976611
Yes so? The essence is changed into jesus. My point stands. It isn't symbolic.

Its a retarded magical belief.

>>14976602
The appearance of bread and wine remains*

>>14975487
If you're an overachiever then go for Zen Buddhism or Taoism.

>>14976614
He converted to islam because he had the mistaken idea that its the religion of the black man and christianity is the religion of the white man. Like most niggers, it was just a racial identity confusion thing that motivated him.

>>14976625
It can clearly be interpreted as the symbolic acceptance of the spiritual body of Christ into yourself, but I’ll concede the Catholic view is that it’s a miracle. If that’s your issue, then your problem isn’t with Catholicism. It’s with Christianity at large which to my knowledge, fundamentally accepts the existence of miracles.

>>14976636
But he believed no? A hard question to answer, even with consideration of his motivations for conversion.

>>14976631
How accessible would those really be though? Buddhism seems to present some challenges to Westerners.

http://www.buddhistische-gesellschaft-berlin.de/downloads/brokenbuddhanew.pdf

>>14975696
>>14975725
And yet it addresses it and dispatches it easily. It’s not rocket science that can figure out which is correct.
It takes specially impaired brains to stay slaves to their dogma.

>>14976657
>It’s with Christianity at large which to my knowledge, fundamentally accepts the existence of miracles.

I have no reason to believe a cracker becomes 'essentially' jesus because some old pedophile recited some magic words over it.

>>14976676
Of two, I would personally consider Taoism the more accessible of the two. Less core texts to work with, a (relatively) less complex metaphysics to deal with. From the perspective of a Western atheist thinking about converting to Taoism or Zen, I would just get my hands on a few books and see which is more appealing.
The changes that these systems of principles and myths bring to the thoughts and behaviour of the person absorbing them are profound, regardless of what religious system it may be.
But they are all uniquely human and accessibility shouldn't override the appeal any one of these may have to a specific individual.

>>14976724
Interesting. I’m an American, raised strictly Roman Catholic. I was never an atheist per se but did abandon Roman Catholicism specifically at one point. I’m interested in Buddhism among other religions myself but what little I’ve seen seemed a bit out reach.

>>14976767
Read some commentaries on the yoga sutra. It's the most logical approach in my view as a westerner, more than buddhism.

>>14976693
You wouldn’t.

>>14976782
I will do that. Just curious, what are your thoughts on Hinduism as a Westerner, if you have any?

>>14976767
Well get yourself a few good books, or better yet, look for a monastery near where you live.
We live in a time where almost any book ever written is a search and a few clicks away.

>>14976809
http://gen.lib.rus.ec is a good place if you didn't know. Always choose [1].

>>14976258
like my dick with your ass

>>14976797
It really depends on the teacher and tradition you can find. I personally haven't found one yet. There are traditions where there are no deities worshipped and you just meditate, like in zen.

https://www.amazon.com/Yoga-Philosophy-Patanjali-Translation-Annotations/dp/0873957296

I recommend this. The way patanjali and the commentator explain the process of meditation is totally logical, there's nothing left unexplained or any of the weird stuff you might find in a lot of buddhist texts.

>>14976790
Thats correct, because I wasn't indoctrinated as a child into believing whatever pedophile priests tell me.

>>14976689
Wrong as usual. Are you ever right? About anything?

>>14975713
>At the base they diverge across a wide base, with some being accessible to certain groups and others not so much, but they all start to merge upon ascent and inevitably meet upon the same mountain peak.
The opposite is true.

>>14976886
Thread has been ended, laddie. Let it go.

>>14976106
No music either.

>>14976724
Taoism is a lost cause. It is all but destroyed by the CCP and the Cultural Revolution. The reason why Seraphim Rose gave up on Taoism was because his teacher, Gi-ming Shien, told him the tradition will not last another 20 years if China remained Communist.

>>14974909
how do i upvote and give gold

>>14977339
And yet the texts survive, and scholars such as Shien have preserved the knowledge necessary to rebuild what was once on the brink. They will have their use, in any form they may.

>>14977872
A lot of practices arent recorded in books, especially the most esoteric ones. Once the chain of initiation is broken and all the masters are dead, those practices will be lost. Any reconstructed taoism will be just a larp, made up by people who don't really know how to discern the truth from a myriad of texts.

>>14978612
>Once the chain of initiation is broken and all the masters are dead
But Guenon (pbuh) was still initiated.

>>14976614
Arabs enslaved niggers for more than a thousand years in much larger numbers than whites ever did. That's besides the fact that arabs treated enslaved niggers much more cruelly in general. Fucking lmao @ any nigger thinking islam is the religion of niggers.

>>14975696
>>14975725
>Cringing at the truth
Yikes.

>>14979762
Wasn’t he initiated by freemasons and that was deeply worrying to some in his circle?

>>14979777
yeah lets say that the arabians before islam are the exact same people as the ones after islam

>>14976829
>>14976693

>>14980828
kek

>>14974730
I’m not a Christian but between those two it’s Christianity as Pascal demonstrates that Christianity is more credible than Islam (though he in no way proves Christianity)

If you really do seek the truth, then read the major writings of every religion and decide for yourself what to believe.

Better get started anon. There's a lot of them.

>>14978612
And those masters are successfully carrying over that knowledge, the Chinese government has eased restrictions on religious practice in its country. And besides, you don't know anything about the truth and how to discern it. Taoism, as all other religions and rites, was "made up" (by many people, the Shih), or better stated, it evolved from our long term socio-cultural development (which has its roots in our biology mind you). The current religions might all eventually become extinct (as so many have before them), but where humans still have a tendency for making myths, seeking moral direction and for contemplating that which is "higher" than them, they will create religions.

>>14974730
The Shining

>>14975773
>the Quran has better internal consistency
yep, every time there is a contradiction it's "Satan Tricked me again, gosh darn it"

>>14980889
If you seek the truth, then study any religion, get a master, pastor or guru and become something there. Religion concerns that which is psychologically true, that which, if practised, is the optimal route for survival as individuals and groups.

>>14981272
From my viewpoint anyways. I can't back up these assertions on this site. That which is true can probably only be proven scientifically.

https://discord.gg/FFwRXKq