/lit/ - Literature

>>14973505
Since Jews are not sentient beings, we should consider a diet primarily of grass-fed Shlomo. The offal would be nutritious, providing abundant fat-soluble vitamin A and even DHA.
Yes, sacrificing innocent and divine cows and chicken is evil, but there is no such thing as an innocent or self-aware Jew.

>>14973505
>is becoming mentally retarded due to an inhuman starvation diet /lit/
Yes very much so.

>>14973505
Not if its rationale is bourgeois neoliberal scientific materialist utilitarianism

>>14973563
>Not if its rationale is buzzword buzzword buzzword buzzword buzzword.

Veganism is fine as your own individual diet, like preferring apples to oranges.
But no objective morality makes it imperative on all humans, for any reason.

And since most vegans are homosexual and atheistic their lectures on what's "Right" and "wrong" don't need to be taken seriously.

>>14973578
Yes, vegensim has been reduced to a series of buzzwords in the modern world

It's rational and empathetic, and goes against the grain of dark enlightenment return to tradition larping. It's very /lit/ indeed

>>14973505
Being vegan and believing in equality and globalism are all the same to me, if you take people's food away for a week everyone drops those beliefs real fast.

The only ones foolish enough to be vegans are imaginative enough to liken man to beast, but not clever enough to do the same for plants.

>>14973505
Doesn't that guy unironically believe shrimp are more valuable than human infants?

>>14973929

Vegetables and grain are more abundant than meat, and it actually takes a shit ton of resources just for some hamburger patties

>>14973853
see
>>14973996

>>14973563
heh

>>14973929

This is what I would like to call a desperate attempt to rationalize the carnist position, simply laughable.

>>14973996
None of the vegetables you put on your plate are found in nature. They've been cultivated by man into a sweet fleshy shape by man. It's still mostly fiber and unabsorbable nutrients. The human's digestive system is what all vegans conveniently ignore.

>>14974051

Vegetables are healthy, and fiber is good for your digestion don't be ridiculous

>>14974045
Stop dividing every single human activity into sets of positions on a 'right/wrong' scale. Veganism is the artificial diet here:
>None of the plants you eat are found in nature, all are cultivated by man
>We cannot digest most of the plant material, neither can we convert the essential nutrients into an available form
>The human digestive system is carnist
Be honest and substantiate what you say: you'll find that any of the points this hippie brings up to convert the normies is FALSE:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byTxzzztRBU&frags=pl%2Cwn

>>14974089

Computers aren't "natural", neither are clothes for that matter. It's undeniable that people who eat more vegetables are healthier, everything else is just hypothetical theories

>>14974106
You are so bad at arguing it's unreal.
>It's undeniable that people who eat more vegetables are healthier
(citation needed)

You're just saying that. I don't expect anyone to have a bundle of sources in their back pocket, neither do I. Thing is there is a correlation because people who eat more vegetables are generally more conscious about their diet and health and thus don't eat as much junkfood. You didn't expect me to bring up my previous argument so you latch onto something and instead strawman me into saying that 'unnatural=bad'. Computers are extentions of our cognitive capacity, which is what humans have instead of fast legs or deadly claws. Clothes are an extension of our complicated psychology and prudeness. Our minds are incredibly plastic, thats why people manage to trick themselves into a diet which starves them and has them feeling constantly hungry. Our brains adapt. But we didn't grow an extra stomach or adjusted our gut-length.

>>14974156

Veganism doesn't starve you unless you're a raw fruitatarian quack, this is not even a real argument it's just a baseless assumption.

>>14974177
Holy God it's like talking to a little kid.
>Veganism doesn't starve you unless you're a raw fruitatarian quack, this is not even a real argument it's just a baseless assumption.
Back to my point where I said this diet is not possible in nature. You can delay your starvation, not prevent it.
I would just like to mention that I buy all animal produce directly from a farm where the animals are raised on local crops and butchered by the owner. I do not have empathy for animals the same way as I do for humans, but excessive cruelty in humans disgusts me. Of course you'll call this 'arbitrary' and I would disagree, but this is another discussion.

>t. former vegan for years

>>14973929
Nah there are more reasons than just 'suffering = bad'

>>14973505
Vegans who are also scientific materialist are absolutely SLAVED. Imagine not believing or consciously subscribing to any divine power or order in the universe, but still denying yourself pleasure and comfort based on some vague notion of right that you have abstracted and uprooted from its historical roots and perverted into a kind of self-punishment while denourishing your body and self-ostracizing from much of social life.

>>14974208
>this diet is not possible in nature

Are we currently not existing in nature? Why do you assume agriculture is not a part of nature? Appeal to nature is one of the basic logical fallacies.

>that I buy all animal produce directly from a farm

That's fine, but most people don't. It's still cruel and unnecessary to eat flesh, even for the farmer who has to kill the animal by hand, the act of killing comes unnaturally at first and eventually hardens the heart.

>I do not have empathy for animals the same way as I do for humans

Obviously I hold human life to a higher level, but at the heart of our cruelty towards each other is the assumption that it's ok to extend cruelty upon lesser more vulnerable creatures. Even if a creature had a very basic form of consciousness, if someone were to inflict violence upon that creature they would still be hurting themselves spiritually.

>>14974051
That's the same for domesticated animals my friend.

>>14974241
>he doesn't eat insects

>>14974241

The majority of people who become vegans are more in touch with the original law written in their hearts. Just because someone is religious doesn't mean that they're some hardcore nihilist, you can follow your heart/intuition without claiming to know how many virgins you'll be rewarded in the afterlife

>>14974288
I guess vegans are all pretty Gemini huh?

>>14974243
If you fail to comprehend the simplest line of reasoning like this on 4chan, there is no point in talking to you.

>>14974245
No it's not. Stop strawmanning.

>>14974307
>No it's not. Stop strawmanning.

That's not a strawman, he has a valid point

>>14974288
>>14974243
Spiritualist woo-woo is what you people have to revert to after having a few basic arguments leveled against your views. I could romanticize the act of the hunt and the kill in exactly the same way as you did with your pacifist fairytale.

>>14974330

There's nothing romantic about shooting a bird with an assault rifle :/

>>14974347
Do vegans really claim to have a monopoly on the aesthetic? You people are tyrants.

>>14974314
You're latching onto these details like someone hanging on the roots from a cliff. You can infinitely dissect these details because yes, explaining ad infinitum becomes difficult. Imagine a tribe in the amazon, or a band of Masaï-warriors, living the way they have lived since the dawn of man. They either hunt an ox who is quick and strong with a lot of lean muscle mass OR the collect and gnaw at bitter roots and poisonous leaves all day, get the shits, get weak, and die. The Human animal, is a predatory animal, fucking admit it. I can even substantiate my claims anthropologically and biologically. But YOU are holding the outlandish position here. I'm not here to spoonfeed you.

>>14974307
>No it's not. Stop strawmanning.

Yes it is. Animals are selectively bred.

>>14973505
Veganism is the ideal.

If you could engineer fake meat to taste the same and have the same nutrition, obviously the more ethical diet would be the one that does not enslave and kill sentient animals.

>>14974369
Anthropologically smaller scale societies mostly subsist off plants and hunting can take weeks

Why do vegans seem to forgot that it's possible to love and appreciate non-human animals AND eat their flesh? Humans have held this sentiment for most of history. It is only in recent years that assessments of the value of non-human life according to materialist and utilitarian paradigms have arisen; paradigms that vegans seem to be stuck in and unable to escape.

>>14974012
I like people on undeveloped nations don't give a damn about this woke hysteria, they have wars, human traffic, starvation, diseases, ethnic persecution, extreme censorship, etc etc.

>>14974045
>carnist
You mean omnivores

>>14974382
In terms of calories, yes. But hunted meat holds an infinity more significant place in their societies.

>>14974382
This is very important to understand: agriculture is recent. Compared to our race's history the agricultural revolution happened a few minutes ago. It is technology and a very comprehensive system in that it radically transforms the human lifestyle; it's a trap, just as the industrial revolution has trapped us. You should pick up a book or generally educate yourself on the first farming societies. Anthropologists who don't hold explicit views on our current discussion even admit that their lifestyles were horror stories compared to their hunter-gatherer ancestors. The stay sedentary, so local hunting grounds are quickly depleted, the stay sedentary so disease develops.
>Inb4 hunter -gatherers were all eventually dominated by agricultural societies. Yes this is true, but the quality of man reduced drastically.

>>14974400
This

>>14974414
Not sure what this has to do with the argument friend.

>>14974405
Baudrillard? Is that you?

>>14974455

>>14973519
This. Raw meat, organs, marrow, milk, etc is the natural human diet.

>>14974462
I mean thanks for your brief and uninformative post on agricultural practices, but ...

>>14974466

That's how batflu was spread

>>14974400

Stop appealing to past mindsets, torturing and slaughtering a creature is a bizarre form of "love"

>>14973519
Veganism is not a starvation diet. You can gain weight depending on what you eat.

>>14974089
Appeal to nature

>>14974498
The future is conditioned by the past; appeal only flows in one direction -- backwards. All I can do is be as open as possible to new ways of thinking, and not restrict myself to those that I have directly inherited from my cultural moment (as you have).

>>14974347
But what if I pretend I'm a hunter from the ice age?
Or maybe even Han Solo with a blaster shooting wombats?

>>14974508
I've literally never seen an overweight vegan, but clearly you can be fat and malnourished at the same time. Do you think obese people are healthy?

>>14974045
The idea that animals, whether "sentient" or not, deserve the same moral consideration as humans is simply laughable. It's the apotheosis of slave morality.

>>14974550

Would you consider it moral to rape an animal's carcass?

>>14974560
That kind of aberrant behavior could only be pathological.

>>14974515

If you haven't ever questioned your own cultural assumptions, I'm sorry to say that you're an npc

>>14973578
What a vacuous criticism. It's not like those terms don't mean something and aren't relevant.
>>14973649
Here here.

>>14974571

Eating flesh is pathological as well

>>14974576
That's nice art.

>>14974376
Animals kill animals.
Infact, animals also kill plants.
So, time for you to find some way for animals to stop doing this and also survive.

>>14973505
Not really. Abstaining from meat due to personally forged moral beliefs can be, but anyone that calls themselves vegan is doing it entirely out of self-satisfaction. Most vegans have deluded themselves into believing they are very moral agents, but in conversation often reveal that their adherence to veganism is driven by the same shallow desire that drives over enthusiastic cyclists, stamp collectors, and gamers.

>>14974572
That's what my comment was saying you reading comprehensionlet

>>14974513
>Appeal to nature

>>14974578
The vast, vast, majority of people would disagree with you. Bestiality on the other hand. . .

>>14974508
You can gain weight and still deprive your brain of amino acids, fats and protein.

>>14973505
I want to tie Peter Singer up, and butcher a calf in front of him. Kill it, cut it open, skin it. Empty its entrails at his feet. Then, force him to cook the meat and eat ever bite of it. Fuck him.

>>14973578
This is your brain on nutritional deficiency.

>>14974601

>Animals kill animals

The majority of animals are herbivores, but that's besides the point because it's irrelevant what animals do when we're discussing human behavior.

>>14974644
>The vast, vast, majority of people would disagree with you

I don't know if it's just you, but almost all these arguments being made are appeals to xyz authority. The mind frame of carnists is enslaved and irrational

>>14974646

I want to tie Anonymous up, and butcher his mother in front of him. Kill her, cut her open, skin her. Empty her entrails at his feet. Then, force anon to cook the meat and eat ever bite of it. Fuck anon.

Notice how the vegans here take all points out of context since they've been btfo'd earlier.

>Thinking morality has to follow a logic or rationale, rather than merely being a set of semi-arbitrary shared intuitions that allow for human society to exist and function
Eating animals is okay because we think it's okay.

>>14974645

This is just a hypothesis to justify carnism, there's no hard proof that people on a vegan diet are functioning with sub optimal brain power and it can't be measured either way so it's a moot point

>>14974673

Reality doesn't work that way, there are objectively higher existential conditions based on natural law

>>14974669

I've never heard a convincing rational for continuing the practice of eating flesh

Non-human animals aren't actually conscious in the way humans are. The subjectivities of the two classes of organism are actually *qualitatively* different -- incommensurable paradigms. To claim that non-human animals "suffer" "pain" is merely an anthropomorphism.

>>14974696

This solipsistic logic has been applied to to lower castes of humans as well, it's obvious an animal has consciousness. When you kill an animal, it screams, it cries, and it doesn't want to die

>>14974664
Of course you would, you vile Singerite hypocrite. To Singer, animals ought not be killed on the basis of their life and their ability to suffer. But the value of human life, and the right to exist, doesn't exist until a child is at least 2 years old.

>>14974658
Simply stating that something is pathological, like you did, does not make it pathological. If I said that wearing a yellow raincoat was pathological behaviour you would probably call me an idiot. What authority would you cite to justify this assertion?

We could check the DSM V and see if it had anything to say about yellow raincoats. We could hire the PEW research centre to do a countrywide survey on the perceived acceptability of wearing yellow raincoats. Or, we could refer to basic common sense.

>>14974680
>just a hypothesis bro, we can't slice into animals to validate it or people so uhhhh let me just say I won
This is why vegans deserve to be processed into meat themselves.

>>14974707
No it hasn't. This specific logic was born out of cutting-edge research in the realms of anthropology, ethology and linguistics. The fact of the matter is that humans and non-humans are qualitatively different in terms of subjective experience. The same cannot be said however of types of humans.
>When you kill an animal, it screams, it cries, and it doesn't want to die
More sentimental anthropomorphisation.

>>14974685
Examples and explaination please

>>14974653
Like animals, humans do not have the ability to live off of the sun or nutrient-rich dirt. History has provided us that humans, including europeans, have eaten meat seasonally. To try and differ yourself from this ancestral nature because of a personal guilt is one thing. To expect anyone else to share in this guilt isn't realistic, since humans vary greatly in personal views, and there are numerous different ways of looking at this topic.

>>14974653
>The majority of animals are herbivores
The animal kingdom is not a representative democracy you absolute fucking idiot

>>14974543

I'm a fat fuck and I east vegetarian (I drink coffee with milk). It's from all the sugar I used to consume as a kid and still do to a lesser extent.

I'm a biologist who reads a lot of research in related fields. Vegan diet is the best diet. You only need to supplement B12. You probably won't believe an anonymous person on the internet (especially, if you disagree), but I invite you to suspend confirmation bias and look up scientific review articles on the subject. Use Sci-Hub to access pay-walled journals

>>14974707
>>14974726
>it's obvious an animal has consciousness.
Also I never claimed that non-human animals don't exhibit something resembling consciousness. Only that it is incommensurable with the only standards by which we are able to measure consciousness i.e. human consciousness.

>>14974741
The argument that we should go vegan because it's healthy is just an ex post facto rationalization for what vegans have already decided to do. If veganism was unhealthy they would still persist in it.

>>14974731

It's better to keep good hygiene and not roll around in your own feces

>>14974741
>Vegan diet is the best diet.
Actually pescatarianism is.

>>14974752
Only based if limited to fatty fish which should be either sardines or salmon. Even more based it you also eat organ meat of land animals (specifically liver and brain).

>>14974749
There are biological reasons to keep good hygiene. Social reasons/pressures stem from these biological reasons. In nature many animals keep themselves clean too, because it's healthy biologically.

>>14974743

You're just trying to justify cruelty, animals are more vulnerable than us and the fact that we as a supposed higher species inflict violence upon them is unjustifiable. It's not necessary it eat meat, and it's not efficient either, it's entirely emotional.

>>14974722
>vegans
>processed into meat themselves
Unfortunately you wouldn't be eating anything as as nutrient-rich as, say, salmon or chicken.

>>14974288
What is “the law written in their hearts” but a form of divinity detached from all philosophical rigor or tradition of the church? What if the law in my heart is to kill and maim animals and devour them raw, bloody, and twitching? What then?

>>14974779
Limit it to zoo animal feed.

>>14974779

The animals you eat are vegan, when you eat meat you're getting your nutrients from a second hand source

>>14974781
>What if the law in my heart is to kill and maim animals and devour them raw, bloody, and twitching? What then?

Well we can see how well that worked out in China!

>>14974741
>I'm a fat fuck
stopped reading, fat people are not humans.

>>14974758

Yep, and we exist in a higher stage of consciousness which allows us to be in control of our existential conditions to a greater extent. When we live against natural law we create suffering, and spread disease

>>14974781

Which church? Which Pope? There are millions of Popes

>>14974810
Maybe, but this "higher stage" still stems from biological cause, rather than rational or logical systems of morality. Therefore it's silly to declare veganism morally good, because the foundation for this belief is a rational, logical understanding of morals.

>>14974747

Do you often forgo good choices, because they are made by people you don't like? You seem to see people who eat vegan as a monolith. There are a lot of reason people choose this diet.

My diet of veganism + milk comes from me finding factory farms inhumane, health reason, and the impact mass farming has on climate. Others choose to be against meat entire no matter how it is made or because they feel their please is not worth the animal suffering. There are of course bogus reasons as well, such as wanting to have an in-group.

>>14974752

That's debatable. Compared to pescatarian diets, vegan diets have a higher HEI-2010 total score and there aren't any nutrients that are exclusive to fish (outside of B12) that are hard to acquire without supplements.

>>14974821

Read Plato

>>14974790
>The animals you eat are vegan,
Not necessarily. Salmon eat a lot of insects.
My tongue-in-cheek joke was aimed at the fact that vegan people are not omnivorous, therefore are generally malnourished or cope by needing supplements found in foods they avoid eating.

>>14974828
I've read the Last Days of Socrates.
I don't think the arguments stand up.

>>14974768
>it's entirely emotional.
Emotion lies at at the bottom of all intents and desires. Your's are no different. And no, I'm not trying to justify cruelty. I'm simply trying to understand non-human animals on their own *animal* terms. It is you who is cruel; anthropomorphising them, attempting to squeeze their subjectivities into your neat little materialist utilitarian systems. Pure evil.

>>14974836

I'm viewing reality from a more objective standpoint, you're creating walls of illusion to veil the truth that you would rather ignore.

>>14974822
I'm not saying veganism isn't healthy, I'm saying whether it's healthy or not irrelevant to the argument at hand.

And yeah, I would say vegans have a lot in common. Veganism is a strain of Anglo liberalism. It's no coincidence that the man who coined the term "veganism" was also a pacifist and conscientious objector.

>>14974844

The idea of abstaining from meat goes beyond Anglo liberalism, but veganism is a more thought out and rationalized vegetarianism so it's not a surprise that it came from Anglos

>>14974844
>conscientious objector

As everyone should be

>>14974768
>animals are more vulnerable than us and the fact that we as a supposed higher species inflict violence upon them is unjustifiable.
Humans are the most efficient killers, though. While a pack of lions or wolves jump on a larger prey and bite at it constantly to take it down, we humans just bludgeon the animal on the head and slit the throat to kill it quickly. Humans deserve a big bloody medal for getting the job done better.

>>14974790
The difference is something like a cow is actually designed to thrive on a herbivore diet whereas a human is not. The context of a diet changes based on the animal it's applied to.

>>14974840
>more objective standpoint
How is this possible? Are you somehow less of a subject and more of an object than me? Or are you simply conflating "objective" with "scientific"? If the latter is the case, then you lose the battle on that front too. Like I said, my reality is formed from cutting-edge research in the realms of anthropology, ethology, linguistics, philosophy of mind, whereas yours is pure inherited (i.e. unexamined) affect.

>>14974856

I see reality more clearly because I understand natural law. Solipsism is a mental disease

>>14974822
DHA AND EPA YOU FUCKING RETARD.

>>14974855
It is not designed for it as that would imply a creator. Its ancestors adapted to the diet over a very large span of time.

>>14974860
You're a brainlet that doesn't know what solipsism is. Here's a challenge: show me one of your "natural laws" outside of human-centric abstraction.

>>14974864
How do you know it wasn't designed by a creator?

>>14974872
My life is too bad for there to be a God.

>>14974876
Is this some blame-shifting I'm seeing here...?

>>14974879
I'm not the same poster. It's pretty obvious that those who have good lives believe in God and those that don't wouldn't.

>>14974871

Natural law applies to reality itself, animals are still subject to it as well. Obviously an animal won't have the same culpability as a human, but gravity is still gravity

>>14974884
>It's pretty obvious that those who have good lives believe in God and those that don't wouldn't.
Yea'... this has to be bait.

>>14974889
You failed my challenge. You lose.

>>14974894

It really doesn't matter what you chose to believe, there's a very real structure to all of reality that exists solely to sustain freedom and love. Consciousness itself has different stages of intelligibility and harmony.

>>14974884
You are going to keep going through bad times until you let go and allow God to help you

>>14974917
Show me this "very real structure of reality" outside of human representation.

>>14974930

It's universal throughout all animal life, we simply exist at slightly higher stage of understanding. Animals do engage in acts of altruism and love, this all points itself to a higher mode of existence, a seed of ultimate truth and is the essence of the law.

>>14974947
The fact of the matter is that human and non-human subjectivities are qualitatively different and mutually unintelligible. They are incommensurable paradigms. To subject the latter to the former's uniquely human frameworks and categories is to perform an anthropomorphism.

>actually putting thought into what you eat

>>14974958
But only to the extent that humans are themselves distinct from other humans, to that extent one can say that qualia is not quantifiable and cannot be compared between distinct beings. However, if one doesn't argue about such problems, one should know that the human experience only seems different to the animal experience becuase of the transcendental illusions covered by Kant and Hume

>>14974958

Is empathizing and seeing similarities in other creatures really anthropomorphizing? Even animals have often done it with different species to themselves. Reality isn't as nonsensical and abstract as you think it is

>>14974969
>smug stupidity

Enjoy premature chronic disease and suffering

>>14974969

Based retard

Question: Are any of you vegans by any chance athletic?
If so, do you know whether you require taking more supplements than typical non-athletic vegans or not?

>>14974974
My perspective is borne out anthropology, linguistics (and semiotics) and ethology. It pays no mind to qualia and transcendental illusions.
>>14974975
>Is empathizing and seeing similarities in other creatures really anthropomorphizing?
By definition, yes. Intent is generated mimetically. When we infer the intent of a non-human animal, that intent is itself modeled on the intent of a fellow human.

>>14973505
>participating in a diet that promotes onset of mental disorders and brain damage
>brain fog and inability to form simple sentences
I would say no. After all, writers need a sharp mind.

>>14974999

Anthropomorphism would imply that there aren't any real similarities between species, but there undeniably is. A dog whining in pain while being tortured isn't just merely the appearance of suffering, it's what we would do if we were in the same position. You can choose to ignore the effects of cruelty on other beings if you want, but the reality is that humans have blood on their hands

>>14975020
Again, you assuming analogous behavior/physiological function = similar/same subjective experience. All these so-called "undeniable" similarities are predicated on anthropocentric assumptions.

>>14975020
>humans have blood on their hands
This blood transcends my individuality. When I aim a bolt at a deer in my hunts, I literally get a high and start to feel almost as if I am reliving a past life.

t. pagan

>>14975043

You were the deer

>>14975037

This is what I would call sophistry

>>14975072
>The prey... has become the predator

>>14975078
It's called reading books, anon.

>>14975037
But how can we tell that humans that have analogous behavior/physiological function have the same subjective experience? After all solipsism could as well be true and everyone else be a p-zombie

>>14975135
Language.

>oh man, can't wait to forage all these vegetables for my natural breakfast

>>14975214
there's a thing called storage if you haven't heard of it you should check it out. not all vegetables spoil in 2 days.

>>14975006
>>participating in a diet that promotes onset of mental disorders and brain damage
you have some proof for that?

>>14975221
and yet you can't possibly gather enough vegetables during summer to possibly meet your caloric requirements through 6 months of winter

>>14975043
>This blood transcends my individuality. When I rape a woman in my "hunts", I literally get a high and start to feel almost as if I am reliving a past life.

>>14975233
>what are grains, root vegetables and fermented foods
how much of a retard can you be? awaiting for your next reply. also, last time I checked winter didn't last 6 months

>>14974330
I could romanticize the act of raping the bruised limp corpse of your mother. I guess that makes it moral then no?

>>14975239
you would wither away from the lack of protein, and yes winter does last 6 months in many places.

>>14975256
>you would wither away from the lack of protein
name the amount of protein and then check yourself how much beans+grains you would need.
>does last 6 months in many places.
irrelevant since people still have access to plant food sources in those locations. if you want to abandon society and live in the far northern woods living on ruminant meat, blood and fish, go ahead.

>>14975214
>>14975256
>I can't forage for a natural breakfast in my unnatural habitat
Flesh has rot your mind.

>>14975214
>oh man, here's a picture of a harsh forest in the winter during which I cling to my warm artificial home and go to the artificial, unnatural supermarket to acquire food in order to not starve

>>14974861
You can get those from algae. They sell them in capsules (like the fish oil supplements a lot of people take anyway). A little costly, sure, but unless you regularly buy vegan "fake" meat products and stick to veggies, grains and beans the vegan diet is really quite cheap anyway, so it makes up for it.

>>14975261
>name the amount of protein
150-200g/a day
>then check yourself how much beans+grains you would need.
more than you can gather up during the warm months, plus beans, onions, chickpeas and all that stuff isn't native to these lands.
>>14975262
>unnatural habitat
nigger detected

>>14975317
>environments with 6 months of winter is a natural human habitat
Read a book.

>>14975321
explain my white skin, it's perfectly liveable if you kill animals for their meat and fur.

>>14975325
>its perfectly livable if...
So is a vegan diet. Neither of these things mean it is natural. Read a book.

>>14975329
people have lived here for at least 20k years before agriculture even was a thing, i'd dare say paleolithic people lived natural lives.

>>14975317
>more than you can gather up during the warm months
if you don't have the brain for agriculture
>plus beans, onions, chickpeas and all that stuff isn't native to these lands.
neither is cattle. your point?
and there clearly are plenty of other nitrogen-fixing plants that give seeds similar in protein to the american endemic Phaseolus vulgaris, looks like botany isn't your strong suit either

>>14975332
Why is agriculture not natural but constructing tools for hunting is?

>>14973505
i look at the flesh that i consume. it keeps me grounded

If you actually want to have energy, I wouldn't. Everyone likes a trend. Placebo is powerful.

>>14974457
We live in a society.

>>14973505
As long as you’re not religious or are a metaphysical absolutist you can’t justify a moral framework beyond appealing to historical, psychological or sociological reasons. All of which can be logically deflected by a simple “yes, and?”.

One of these days some aliens are gonna come to earth and they're gonna be like "What the fuck you guys have been killing and eating other creatures instead of just formulating a nutrient dense plant slurry? Shit this is a Class Z space crime we're gonna have to take you to galactic court over this. How long did you say you've been doing this? Oh man sorry but you guys are definitely getting your whole species executed yeah they're gonna throw you all into a neutron star tomorrow."

>>14976480
This is 9gag level cringe

>>14974861
There's lots of vegan options for that now.

>>14973589
Are you not obligated to prevent suffering, if you have to ability to prevent it?

>>14974051
That's not true. Are you honestly trying to argue that we don't digest nutrients from vegetables?

>>14974405
>underdeveloped nations are still struggling; therefore, I don't have to reflect on my personal ethics.

>>14974550
You're attacking a strawman and you know it.

>>14974732
low IQ bait

>>14974979
don't vegans live longer/healthier?

With minimal effort can enjoy food and get all you need if you supplement B12 which costs zilch (even then usually b12 fortified foods means you don't need it)

And not contributing to the needless torture of sentient beings.

Anyone with a conscience will at least grapple with it. As the culture shifts more will do it and we'll look back on it with deep, deserved shame.

>>14976527
>After a life of hard work spitting in the face of the world my superior morals, I finally filled all the buckets.
>Yet I still feel empty inside.

OMAD CARNIVORE is the only moral way to eat and it's the healthiest.

>>14976505
Not to the point that I cause my own malnourishment. I do think would be a happy vegetarianism though. Of course when the supply chain collapses meat will once again become a rare commodity :)

>>14974466
Even cavemen cooked their meat you fucking simpleton.

>>14976671
Most people aren't even sentient. Animals raised for husbandry are scarcely tortured either with the exception of poultry (filthy disgusting pleb food), and lead better lives than their wild counterparts. Sounds to me not like the animals have it too bad, but rather you have it too good. A few years in forced labor would set your mind straight.

>>14976751
im actually gonna throw up