/lit/ - Literature

>>14878193
"Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker-- An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are you doing?' Or the thing you are making say, 'He has no hands '?

>>14878193
You have to be at least 18 years old to post here.

Either your pride causes you to place yourself above God’s understanding, or everything you’re saying is true, in which case it makes no sense to reject God. What is virtuous about going to hell? Thus your criticism is only valid if God is real, and he is as you describe, but this would only prove that you’re an idiot who doesn’t know what’s good for him.

>>14878193
no way fag

>>14878249
>What is virtuous about going to hell?
Everything. Why would mind-numbing pleasure be more virtuous than suffering for what you believe in?

>>14878400
Because you followed Satan. You obeyed his whispers and inclined yourself to him by following your desires. When you meet God, the only thing you'll have is the purity of your soul, and all you'd have is your black soul empty of gratitude for God and empty of belief.

We can't comprehend the happiness of Heaven. You say it's mind-numbing because you think we'd be forced to be happy. But it is not your soul which is made joyful, but it would be the emptying of all the potential anger and sadness. All the remorse and agony and hostility will leave your soul like a broken dam. This is because you'd be in the presence of God and because He, in all His never-ending glory and praise, is pleased with how you carried yourself in the life of this world. His love would envelope you and you'd be in such happiness that even if all you knew was suffering when you were alive, you'd believe your life was a piece of cake.

>>14878400
The joy of those who love God is nothing like mind-numbing pleasure.

You’re so confident now, but the moment you first experience hell you would realize your mistake. What do you have to comfort you, then? Your false notion of virtue? What is virtue, if it ends in suffering, forever?

>>14878249
The real red pill is that Lucifer/Satan was not an evil antagonist like God’s self-proclaimed slaves will have you believe, but a virtuous revolutionary who, seeing God’s wickedness, decided to stand up against him, even though he knew he was facing certain defeat.
And if you read the account of Adam and Eve in the garden, this will be confirmed. It is actually the Snake who tells Adam and Eve the truth, namely that they will not die on the same day they eat the fruit as God said, but will have divine powers. And what happened? They are the fruit, did not die, and God lamented “they have become like us”. Satan was telling the truth all along.

>>14878526
>The real red pill is that Lucifer/Satan was not an evil antagonist like God’s self-proclaimed slaves will have you believe, but a virtuous revolutionary who, seeing God’s wickedness, decided to stand up against him, even though he knew he was facing certain defeat.
This is gnosticism, you heretic.

>>14878526
>but a virtuous revolutionary who, seeing God’s wickedness
What wickedness existed before the fall?
>even though he knew he was facing certain defeat
Then why did he rebel? For what?
>They ate the fruit, did not die
They did die, spiritually, then physically. Immediately they fell from God’s presence and were hidden from him.

>>14878585
Another one of God’s slave-apologists. God told Adam he would die on the same day he ate of the fruit. If you say this is a spiritual death I have two points:
1) God said “they have become like us” after Adam and Eve ate of the tree. If Satan was correct, as I claim, in saying that God only forbade them from eating of the tree because he was afraid they would acquire divine powers, this makes perfect sense. If, however, your claim is correct, namely that God was referring to a spiritual death, then by “they have become like us” God is saying he himself is spiritually dead. Surely you don’t believe that.
2) even if it wasn’t literal, it was still a lie. There was no way for Adam to know God was not being literal here. The reasonable assumption would have been that god is referring to a physical death. So even if this is true it was still a lie because god used the word “die” misleadingly.

>>14878694
The Hebrew meaning is something like “when you eat it, dying you shall die.” And even if Adam and Eve perceived that God meant they would die immediately, that would only make their eating the fruit even worse of a choice.
> If, however, your claim is correct, namely that God was referring to a spiritual death, then by “they have become like us” God is saying he himself is spiritually dead.
context:
> And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil

>>14878400
What mind-numbing pleasure?

>>14878498
>>14878503
Why would Heaven be any way different from what we have now? What we have here, tells us all we need to know about our creator. Christ has told us to follow him, and to take up our own cross. The cross is suffering, and the ultimate good. Surely, there couldn't be anything more noble, more good, than suffering for all eternity? That is what you should be preparing for, if you truly love God.

The snake has told Eve that we would be like gods if we ate from the Tree of Knowledge. It did not lie - to be like God is to suffer. To see all the evil and pain, constantly, with infinite definition. Could you ever find solace in Heaven, if there were souls of your friends and family in Hell, lost for all eternity? Wouldn't it drive you mad, to hear their screams, while you sipped Ambrosia? And God has His children in Hell.

>>14878205
/thread

>>14878205
>>14878909
The universe isn't intelligent design - it is evolution. Mindless, cruels, pointless stacking of corpses on top of one another. It is savagery, there are no hands which make it, only cold and unbending laws.

>>14878905
>The cross is suffering, and the ultimate good. Surely, there couldn't be anything more noble, more good, than suffering for all eternity? That is what you should be preparing for, if you truly love God.
No, no, no. You don’t get it at all.
>Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted

>>14878973
cope - you took up Christianity because of the promise of personal gain, didn't you? Relief from suffering, cozy life in Heaven, assurance of being correct while those you hate suffer for all eternity? this is simple egoism, how disreputable - why are you running from your martyrdom, the true calling of all those who want to follow Christ? Scared?

>>14878905
Heaven is the exact same as what we have here. The only difference is that we glimpse God.

>>14879002
This is only your delusion. Those who please God will be well pleased in the next life. Those who don't will be disgraced. Mankind has believed this. Follow mankind and follow God and don't innovate new interpretations of that which was already confirmed.

>>14879002
the idea that suffering is good in itself isn’t supported by scripture. Otherwise, heaven would surely be full of suffering for eternity. You apparently didn’t catch the meaning of the verse I gave you:
>Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted
The comfort implies that the suffering has passed. The suffering is not made good until it is gone.

>>14879047
Thank you for at least admitting that you are religious out of purely selfish, pragmatic reasons. Perhaps, ones such as you shall be saved, but if you are aware of your egoism and deliberately ignore it - that just might be too grave of a sin.
There were plenty of jewish people in organized, long lasting communities, with great traditions of torah interpretations - nevertheless, those very same people plotted to have Christ crucified. Think for yourself.

>>14879151
>didn’t catch the meaning
it was a simple statement of impermanency of mourning
your whole "suffering is not made good until" implies that the world isn't good until the judgement day or something - plain heresy. The world is good right now, to submit to suffering without assurance is what we should be doing (see: "why have you abandoned me?")

otherwise your root cause, what you build your faith on, is egoism - ultimately, Christianity is just a set of steps to unending pleasure for you, to moral and spiritual superiority, you only follow so you yourself may becone exalted

>>14878193

>>14879158
In many places in the Bible, the verses are clear that we will be rewarded by acting a certain way. Now you can say that the Bible is against worldly hedonism, but spiritual hedonism? It’s not so clear.
> Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ.
> And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
> Delight yourself in the Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart.
> But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
> But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil.
> The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever; the rules of the Lord are true, and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, even much fine gold; sweeter also than honey and drippings of the honeycomb. Moreover, by them is your servant warned; in keeping them there is great reward.
and so on...

The complete Christian answer may be a balance between egoism and selflessness: once you start the path of righteousness, you must have the reward in sight, or else, why would you act? But as you walk down the path, you begin to act out of love as Christ lives within you, and you no longer live through the simple view of getting a reward.

>>14878942
And wherefrom do laws come forth? A mindless universe and a sea of chaos ought not to have unbending laws.
>>14878905
>Could you ever find solace in Heaven, if there were souls of your friends and family in Hell, lost for all eternity?
Christ has come to preach the good news! How can one believe in his own salvation, if he doesn't believe in the salvation of others? Mourn the dead, mourn your family, mourn the world that is burning in a man-made wildfire, sin. Pray for them, for their salvation, because God does not wish for the second death of a sinner, but will for their salvation. All you have to do is cooperate. The dead have lost touch with themselves, so you should pray on their behalf.
Lord have mercy on all of us sinners!

>>14878193
Bow down before your Elohim puny humans. Did I just hear you question my actions? Have you not read Job retard? Did you not know that you're not allowed to question me because I'm God? Stupid human, get on your knees and ignore your questions and just worship me like it's the easiest thing in the world.

>>14878905
>Why would Heaven be any way different from what we have now?
Are you even trying? Blasphemy is so flippant these days.

>But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

>>14880159
I think he’s already given up. >>14878206 is probably accurate too

>>14878526
Based. Books for this? I can think of
>The Gospel According to Jesus Christ
>Northern Lights trilogy (YA)
>Paradise Lost (to a lesser extent)

>>14878193
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLOsUc8MbEg

>>14878526
Go to bed Milton, surprise there is no such person as satan retard stop beleiving plagarized jewish fan fics

>>14879646
So are you denying the reality of hell, or not? If hell exists, any saint will find no peace in heaven.

>>14880159
>>14880165
>Its blasphemy to theorize about the afterlife based on the current reality
Somehow, Jesus was rased both body and spirit. Seems like the body is useful after death for something, with all its flawed senses and other imperfect mechanisms.
Why would God create one mode of existence which is supposedly so much worse than the other? What we have is "good", and for heaven to be good, it needs to be similar.

The fantasies of pleasure and joy are just a one big cope that humanity has created - abstain from debauchery, so you may debauch yourself in heaven! brief suffering on this crude, awful, even evil earth (nevermind that it is God which created this matter) followed by the perfect realm of spirit!

But go ahead, throw more bible quotes at me, never question your faith, never test it - that's how it becomes perfect, for blind fanaticism is the road to salvation.

This is possibly the most cucked shit ive ever seen.

>please god daddy see what a good little servant i am, please dont smite me down for any reason or no reason at all with your flawless divinity

FUCK religion but especially abrahamic religions and weak willed, weak minded hairless monkeys that adhere to them

>>14880995
That's what these cunts do bro. "OH READ JOB BRO, STOP QUESTIONING THINGS YOU FILTHY PEASANT, JUST BELIEVE BRO." Their cope knows no bounds.

>>14878498
Ah yes and we know this because... of a bunch of sand nigger books. But only certain sand nigger books. Not all the sand nigger books. How do you know which ones? Well the sand nigger kings will tell us which ones. Which sand nigger kings? Uh...

>>14881150
based australian

>>14878754
>that would only make their eating the fruit even worse of a choice.
How would they know better?

If you never ever want to suffer you don’t want to live either

>>14881694
suffering is directly caused by the existence of death - things that experience it, live long enough to procreate

that's it, that's your profound importance of suffering

>>14879012
Based TNP

based

>>14878498
Sounds like the words of satan himself

>>14880995
>never question your faith, never test it
How do you think people arrive at their conclusions? You can twist around as many truisms as you want, you'll never make morality "debauched", only your own theology.
>>14881150
How charmingly gnostic, judgement without substance and more twisted words. No one called you a peasant, but I'll point out that Cathars and Albigenses, like all the other forms of gnosticism, are peasant movements that come as a reaction to suffering. Gnosticism Proper only came about when the Jews were originally exiled in Babylon.
>>14881018
>>14881327
Even gnostics are less retarded than this. Paganism is just consumerism nowadays, but you're as free as anyone else to deluded yourself about what your consumption means. If you want to feel like a Pagan Ice Warrior from Hyperborean Cool Guy Land because you bought a replica sword or read about Advaita, be my guest.

>>14882686
>gnostic gnostic gnostic
baby learned a new word?

>>14882686
>implying there aren't racist atheists

>>14883036
It's what you and your beliefs are.

>>14882333
based trips

Apparently choice and freedom are evil in your eyes

>>14878193
Urizen isn't God dumby

>>14884042
oh yes, all those evil people just choose to suffer, while us good people live perfect lives