/lit/ - Literature

>>14818199
he's right, i went from tradcath larper to epicurean hedonist and my life turned from a lonely and hentai infused sadfest to an actually fulfilling and joyful existence.

>>14818214
>tradcath larper
Trash

>epicurean hedonist
Retroactively refuted trash

>It is lust only, Arjuna, which is born of contact with the material modes of passion and later transformed into wrath, and which is the all-devouring, sinful enemy of this world.

don't give a fuck. read theory

>>14818223
>read theory
I did.

>>14818214
this

>>14818231
Hm, well if you still allow your mind to be ruled by a single derivative mystic author who was memed to you by an imageboard for 16 year old virgins, then I guess you are just a retard. Carry on.

>>14818245
>arguments
>not detected

>>14818199
He's a Spenglerist who disagrees with Traditionalist esoterism, but he does say Guenon had a point on some things like metaphysical decline. John David Ebert serves as a nice counterbalance to Traditionalism and is based.

>is born a christian bourgeois
>bears the name of the female ape
>gets bored with Christianity and secular Christianity, ie free masons, like any midwit low bourgeois
>dabbles in spiritualism, theosophy and perennialist mysticism
>becomes infatuated with vedism-mahayanism
>exactly the same retardation
>but it is exotic so it is true
>keeps shilling the idea that all religions are the same
>dies a muslism
>It's really only to make idiots feel righteous and like they are in the know
>100 years later, the people who spout the same nonsense are the bored midwit humanist bourgeois like soccer moms posting on Facebook craving for virtue signaling points

>>14818259
No.

>>14818199
>Balding Retard Attacks Guenon
Based

>>14818259
a true Renéssance man

>>14818268
>Based
Basé

>>14818199
He’s right though

>>14818199
Based balding lad ripping guenon a new one

>>14818271
dumb pun but made me laugh. thank you anon

>balding retard (he's only 49 but looks 69)
I thought you were talking about Varg for a second

>>14818214
You went from garbage to garbage. Have you even read Guenon?

>>14818199
holy fuck..... he ended guenon.... i'm speechless, just threw all my guenon books in the trash......

>>14818419
you should have done that as part of your new year's resolution already.

>>14818413
Considering that he was a TradCat(boy), he obviously didn't

>>14818214
Convert to Orthodoxy.
Come home, brother.

>>14818199
>>liberalism/the modern west is good because it makes people individuals
>>each individual now creates their own metaphyiscs
>>this is good because we get lots of material things
May Guénon ﷺ illuminate that God-forsaken country and soften their hearts to His ﷺ magnificent teaching.

>>14818199
Imagine being a traditionalist and buying 3-4 internet connections to your apartment, along with your phone plan, just to spam morphed images on an anonymous technological flarf poetry forum.

>>14818558
>morphed images
That is the real unaltered and uncreated Icon of Our Great Teacher ﷺ.

>>14818541
>It so happens that Rene Guenon was the chief influence in the formation of my own intellectual outlook (quite apart from the question of Orthodox Christianity). I read and studied with eagerness all his books that I could get a hold of; through his influence I studied ·the ancient Chinese language and resolved to do for the Chinese tradition what he had done for the Hindu; I was even able to meet and study with a genuine representative of the Chinese tradition and understood full well what he means by the difference between such authentic teachers and the mere "professors" who teach in the universities.

>It was Rene Guenon who taught me to seek and love the Truth above all else, and to be unsatisfied with anything else; this is what finally brought me to the Orthodox Church. Perhaps a word of my experience will be of help for you to know.

>For years in my studies I was satisfied with being "above all traditions" but somehow faithful to them; I only went deeper into the Chinese tradition because no one had presented it in the West from a fully traditional point of view.When I visited an Orthodox Church, it was only in order to view another "tradition"-knowing that Guenon (and one of his disciples) had described Orthodoxy as the most authentic of the Christian traditions.

>>14818572
>However, when I entered an Orthodox Church for the first time (a Russian Church in San Francisco), something happened to me that I had not experienced in any Buddhist or other Eastern temple; something in my heart said that this is "home," that all my search was over. I didn't really know what.. this meant, because the service was quite strange to me, and in a foreign language. I began to attend Orthodox services more frequently, gradually learning its language and customs, but still keeping all my basic Guenonion ideas about all the authentic spiritual traditions.

>With my exposure to Orthodoxy and to Orthodox people, however, a new idea began to enter my awareness: that truth was not just an abstract idea, sought and known by the mind, but was something personal-even a Person-sought and loved by the heart. And that is how I met Christ. I am now grateful that my approach to Orthodoxy took several years and had nothing of emotional excitement about it-that was Guenon's influence again, and it helped me to go deeper into Orthodxy without the ups and downs that some converts encounter when they arc not too ready for something as deep as Orthodoxy. My entrance into the Orthodox Church occurred at the very time I left the academic world and gave up the attempt to communicate the Chinese tradition to the Western world. My Chinese teacher also left San Francisco shortly before this-my only real contact with the Chinese tradition-and in Guenonian fashion he disappeared utterly, leaving no address. I remember him fondly, but after becoming Orthodox I saw how limited was his teaching: the Chinese spiritual teaching, he said, would disappear entirely from the world if Communism endures another ten or twenty years in China. So fragile was this tradition-but the Orthodox Christianity I had found would survive everything and endure to the end of the world-because it was not merely handed down from generation to generation, as all traditions are; but was at the same time given from God to
man.

>>14818574
>I look back fondly now on Rene Guenon as my first real instructor in Truth, and I only pray that you will take what is good from him and not let his limitations chain you. Even psychologically, "Eastern wisdom" is not for us who are flesh and blood of the West; Orthodox Christianity is clearly the tradition that was given us-and it can be clearly seen in the Western Europe of the first ten centuries, before the falling away of Rome from Orthodoxy. But it also happens that Orthodoxy is not merely a "tradition" like any other, a "handing down" of spiritual wisdom from the past; it is God's Truth here and now-it gives us immediate contact with God such as no other tradition can do. There are many truths in the other traditions, both those handed down from a past when men were closer to God, and those discovered by gifted men in the reaches of the mind;' but the full Truth is only in Christianity, God's revelation of Himself to mankind. I will take only one example: there are teachings on spiritual deception in other traditions, but none so thoroughly refined as those taught by the Orthodox Holy Fathers; and more importantly, these deceptions of the evil one and our fallen nature are so omnipresent and so thorough that no one could escape them unless the loving God revealed by Christianity were close at hand to deliver us from them. Similarly: Hindu tradition teaches many true things about the end of the Kali Yuga; but one who merely knows these truths in the mind will be helpless to resist the temptations of those times, and many who recognize the Antichrist (Chalmakubi) when he comes will nonetheless worship him-only the power of Christ given to the heart will have strength to resist him.

>It is my prayer for you that God will open your heart, and you yourself will do what you can to meet Him. You will find there happiness you never dreamed possible before; your heart will join your head in recognizing the true God, and no real truth you have ever known will be lost. May God grant it! Feel free to write whatever is in your mind or heart.

>>14818541
>>14818572
>>14818574
Based as fuck. I first learned about Seraphim Rose from Dugin. He is a big influence of Aleksandr Dugin.

>>14818579
*wrong pic sorry

>>14818199
Guenon is balding... the "balding retard" is actually bald... know the difference.

>>14818579
yeah, rose was popular in russia, his works were circulated in soviet times in smazidat

>>14818199
>12 part video series
He is definitely under the reign of quantity. Thank you for exposing this hylic for all to see, brother.

fags

>>14818199
Will watch it today with my local group of Guenonians. It will provide some nice fuel for training my retroactive refutation.

>>14818985
Based. I recommend using a Baudrillardian analysis to retroactively refute this pseud.

>>14818562
fucking kek

New metaphysics born of the communion with God retroactively refutes people who think truth is something outside themselves ( such as tradition ). there are dangers with tradition and there are dangers with exploration. Old men and babes do better with tradition. Young men have health and power to conquer, chart new territory and make new paths.

>>14818199
thanks for the tl;dr. it's not an actual criticism of Guénon at all, even if the guy thinks it is. it's just a different point of view based on a different value judgement. and because Guénon's point of view is the one true point of view, any deviating point of view is erroneous and satanic.

>>14820651
Based

>>14818267
>old thing good, new thing bad
>why
>I don't like new thing and old thing is actually my personal conception of the best sort of old thing
>so you're fantasising about the past
>it's not a fantasy >:(
Why do people find this obvious sophistry compelling?

>>14820734
>new thing good, old thing bad
>why
>uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh democracy?? iphones??????

>>14820734
How does that address anything Guénon has ever said?

>>14820746
>new thing good, old thing bad
I didn't say this.
>>14820749
I don't know. I haven't read him yet. Shitposting and people's reactions to my shitposting are how I learn about an author before I read them. It tells me more than an introduction or a preface ever could.

>>14820760
>how I learn about an author before I read them
When he talks about Tradition, he isn’t talking about cultural trapping, but rather the underlying metaphysics.

>>14820770
>When he talks about tradition, he isn't talking about cultural trapping, but rather the fundamental nature of Tradition
How does he separate the two? How does he personally define metaphysics? Scanning the Wikipedia article, it seems as if he is particularly concerned with the definition of terms and their degeneration over time, so I would like to know what he thought "metaphysics" actually meant.

What's the deal with this Guenon guy

>>14820784
The underlying meanings that are perennial across civilizations. He has a very Baudrillardian analysis of culture, Evola is very much the same.

My class is about to start so I don’t have much time to explain. I highly recommend “Meditations on the Peaks” by Evola(it’s a quick read of about 117 pages.) Evola was inspired by Guenon and has an almost exactly conception of metaphysics.

>>14818199
Why exactly did he convert to Islam? The Wikipedia article indicates that he had a personal passion for Orientalism but he couldn't bring himself to convert to Hinduism because it was too foreign to western sensibilities, so he went with Islam because it was still in some sense "of the East" but more applicable. Is this base Orientalism for Orientalism's own sake really his sole reason for converting?

>>14820784
he has a chapter on metaphysics in his first book where he defines it

>>14818199
I just disliked all his videos for the sake of Guenon (pbuh)!!

>>14818254
He is utterly full of himself. His ten minute video splicing says a lot about the man.
I've listened to quite a few of his lectures and it got more tiresome after each 10 minutes. Especially his guenon critiques being very emotional.
Then I got to his video of him talking to some 40 year old indian bimbo acting as a medium, talking to rudolph steiner in a skype call.
From then on I stopped listening.

>>14821763
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oY5NijC6-NE

>>14818214
based

>>14818199
At which stage of the guenonpill is it best for me to convert to Islam?

>>14821763
>Then I got to his video of him talking to some 40 year old indian bimbo acting as a medium, talking to rudolph steiner in a skype call.
LMFAO! Everyone who attacks Evola or Guenon ends up being a complete hack.

>>14818199
Shocking and terrible.
Does this meet the standard of sacrilege to warrant a beheading? He insulted the grand pooobah. What is prescribed in Guenonian Law?

>>14821781
Never. Guenon was not a muslim. He moved to Egypt because it was peaceful and he could marry a 19 year old (not for the sex, he did not copulate for 5 more years and only for procreation, he was against sex for entertainment). He was actually a catholic-hindu.

>>14822044
Wrong he was a Buddhist-Mason who had been initiated into the remaining hidden witch-cult in Europe. The move to Egypt was to study the reign of Akhenaten and his connection with Agarttha as detailed in Guenon's King of the World.

>>14820840
He didn't want to convert to Hinduism because he didn't want to low caste Dalit as converts are

>>14822031
He is forever barred of achieving any metaphysical realization and will keep being reborn a nigger for 1000 mahayugas.

Brehs, I think I am in love with Guenon...

>>14821763
>>14821962
Holy based...
Balding anglo retroactively BTFO...

>>14822044
>marry a 19 year old (not for the sex, he did not copulate for 5 more years and only for procreation, he was against sex for entertainment)
Based... Would be even more based if she was 14 and he could control himself and not immediately devour her delicious Traditionalistic cunny. Truly a master of both knowledge and love... (pbuh)...

>>14818254
Very cringe.

>>14822701
>>14822732
>>14822758
Very based.

>>14822758
Based yet coompilled

>>14818572
>>14818574
>>14818578
Based. Which book is this from?

>>14818992
>Traditionalist Baudrillardian analysis
Someone already did.

>>14823079
its from his private letters to a spiritual seeker.
>[Fr. Seraphim wrote the following letter towards the end of his lift, to a young man whom he heard was interested in the writings of the French metaphysician Rene Guenon. Portions of this letter-perhaps the most important of Fr. Seraphim's letters which have been preserved-have been included in 'Not of This World". Here for the first time we present the complete text]
https://sites.google.com/site/phoenixlxineohp2/lettertoareaderofreneguenon

>>14818572
>>14818574
>>14818578
I want to convert to Orthodox but I also practice occultism. Will they mind?

>>14823170
Niggers look like Gandalf and Voldermort. I don't think they'll mind

>>14822044
>Guenon was not a muslim
Cope harder Rakesh, he chose Islam get over it.

>>14823170
>I also practice occultism
Why would you ever practice a retroactively refuted doctrine? The only reasons are a rationalistic/sentimentalist profit-oriented mindset. Purge such things from your mind, anon.

>>14823170
depends if it goes against fundamental church doctrine, if you're interested in orthodox occultism Boris Mouravieff might be worth looking into. Orthodox theology is quite mystical to begin with.

>>14823474
>orthodox occultism
lmfao. this is like saying "orthodox buddhism" or "orthodox protestantism".

HOLY FUCKING NIGGERBALLS! HE """INTERVIEWS""" SPENGLER THROUGH A MEDIUM LMAOOOOOO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB6wKUeg478

>>14824342
Guenon utterly btfo!

>>14824342
>implying Guenon didn’t believe crazy shit as well

>>14824342
He should interview Guénon, we'll know for sure that it's fake if He does not proceed to retroactively refute his spiritistic delusion.

>>14818199
>attacking Guenon's "The Reign of Quantity"
Immediate red flag. Thank you for warning us of this hylic deluded by maya, brother.

>>14825250
>hylic
is there a more based word?

>>14825256
You should thank me for introducing this vernacular into 4chans lexicon.

>>14825250
>>14825256
>>14825313
Very based. Hylics BTFO.

Holy based bros...
Such a good thread!

>initiation
Based. I am currently trying to develop my own Neo-Druidic group based on this YouTube video.

https://youtu.be/sjyNgMp0Me8

Did Guénon ever talk about how to create initiation rites for the young? A member of my Druidic Grove had a daughter recently and we want to raise her in the Druidic Rite.

>>14826818
one can only give initiation if one has recieved it by the hands of one duly delegated with authority to do so, neo-paganism, hence 'neo', lacks that continuity.

>>14826818
How did you find a Pagan group irl? I have considered converting to Islam, but it feels way too "oriental" to me; whenever I see Celtic-Greco-etc symbols and art, I always feel a strong connection.

If you actually watched the video you would realize that he really does not say that at all. The video series is just a summary of the book with some minor comments within a lens of Spengler. They are unironically not bad lectures to watch while reading TRoQ.

>>14826843
What if I get ordained as clergy first? Will that confer a suitable spiritual influence onto me? There probably are some easy to get into heretical churches who still have valid apostolic succession.

I think then I will be able to truly initiate members of my Grove into the Primordial Tradition, adapting it to suit our Druidic needs.

>>14827761
I just joined a semi-LARPy group at uni and quickly became the High Priest due to a basic level of intelligence and theological/metaphysical knowledge. Now I am initiating people, performing rites and writing doctrines/creeds down, trying to make our Folkish Faith more serious.

Islam might be a way to infiltrate an already religious community with a group of like-minded pagans. Don't think we could subvert genuine Muslims into idolatry, but maybe targeting white converts might be a good idea though.

>>14827823
>I just joined a semi-LARPy group at uni
Unfortunately my uni is majority non-white so such groups don't exist :(

I perhaps could try to begin something myself. I saw some vendor at my school selling "magic" rocks, and a lot of people were flooding to the booth and asking what they do, and buying them. This is a sentiment I could work with, I reckon.

>Islam might be a way to infiltrate an already religious community with a group of like-minded pagans. Don't think we could subvert genuine Muslims into idolatry, but maybe targeting white converts might be a good idea though.
Based

>>14827823
>>14827846
You realize Stonehedge wasn't associated with the Druids. The Druids were from Gaul. You guys are really beyond stupid. Please do an ounce of research. You are just embarassing yourself.

>“No stage of the building of Stonehenge is later than about 1200 B.C., and any connection with the Druids, who flourished a thousand years later, is purely conjectural” (Jacquetta Hawkes ed., Atlas of Ancient Archaeology)

>>14827876
That doesn't take away from the primordial symbolism that the Stonehenge represents.

>>14827892
Then why would you dress up like a "Druid" if it has no connection to the site.

You just admitted that your beliefs are completely anachronistic. You have to be beyond deluded to post such a thing in Guenon thread. Guenon was against these same sort of neo-spiritualist revival groups. There was no concept of white identity in the age of the druids. You just want a fancy mythos with which to cloak your petty bourgeois nationalism. There is nothing of spirituality: only showmanship, romanticism, and delusion.

>>14826818
>Attempting to reconstruct a dead tradition in which none of their texts have survived by pulling a bunch of rituals out of your ass and calling it an initiation
Never going to make it, also larp.

>>14827927
>Then why would you dress up like a "Druid"
I'm not the based Druid anon.

>There was no concept of white identity in the age of the druids.
We have genetic evidence that proves the white race is a real thing. We also have Evola's writing that further elaborate the context of race in Tradition.

>>14827944
> We have genetic evidence that proves the white race is a real thing.
Not my point. I am not debating whether it exists. I am saying that the emphasis on race as a unifying factor never happened until the fall of religious unity in the west. The "Druids" never saw themselves as part of a "white race" with Germans/Celts,etc.

Once again, Evola's concept of race is different than biological race. He doesn't speak anything in any of his books of scientific race of the sort you post with "gene clustering."

I am not trying to insult you, but I don't think you have even read Guenon and Evola to any great extent. You just want a figurehead for your own personal beliefs.

>>14827963
>I am saying that the emphasis on race as a unifying factor never happened until the fall of religious unity in the west.
So when the West came into contact with nonwhites on a regular basis? lol

>Once again, Evola's concept of race is different than biological race.
He regularly said that both mattered.

ie
>Cogni will certainly not object, to the greater glory of the Vedantic One, if a young Nordic girl beds a Zulu or an Australian aborigine whose morphological and mental level corresponds to the stone age. He is certainly an egalitarian to the bitter end, a fanatic integrationist

>>14827814
This. My post here >>14818254 pretty much sums up the reviews, but clearly no one else in the thread has watched them, which isn't surprising since watching 12 videos of 20-45 minute length would be too much of an expectation for /lit/.

I honestly believe the anons who had a legitimate interest in discussing Traditionalist books have all fled /lit/ ever since discord trannies subverted the board with pbuh and based shitposting.

>>14827996
>So when the West came into contact with nonwhites on a regular basis? lol
Not at all. The west lost its religious unity during the reformation. This was not at all due to changes in demographics of any great degree. If you want to be a nationalist, just be a nationalist. Stop trying to rehabilitate past ideologies that have nothing to do with your beliefs.

>>14828048
>The west lost its religious unity during the reformation. This was not at all due to changes in demographics of any great degree.
Demographics did not change, but exploration did happen. Why do you think Spain and Portugal were the first to have detailed racial caste systems?

>If you want to be a nationalist, just be a nationalist.
I'm not a nationalist; I already know that nationalism is a bullshit 17th century concept, but I still hold race as an important part in my analysis.

I like you also skipped over the Evola part, lmao.

>>14828072
I skipped over it since you provided a quote without saying what work it was from. Tell me where you got it from since it seems to contradict things he says in the metaphysics of war. In that book he specifically is against the bourgeois scientific racism of modernity.

>Demographics did not change, but exploration did happen. Why do you think Spain and Portugal were the first to have detailed racial caste systems?
Once again, this really does not touch upon what I am getting at. I never said a modern nation didn't have racial designations. I am saying that ancient ones did not think of other nations as forming some sort of "white" or "European" identity like is so often advocated for in right-wing movements and neo-pagan groups today.

It was only after a loss of religious unity that these concepts of "European" or "white" had to be substituted in. They were the perfect placeholders for the modern "religious of progress" with the belief in European progressivism.

>>14828107
>what work it was from
The Metaphysics of Sex and the One. You could just search the excerpt in google.

>I am saying that ancient ones did not think of other nations as forming some sort of "white" or "European" identity
Because they were barely in contact(or not in contact at all) with non-Caucasoid groups.

When your "foreign" contacts are Anatolians, Germanics, Celts, and Levantines, I can see why people didn't form racial groups back then.

>It was only after a loss of religious unity that these concepts of "European" or "white" had to be substituted in.
You are literally making a "correlation = causation" argument. If we look at other events that happened around the time of the reformation, we can see that the Age of Exploration began around the same time as the Reformation.

I'll try to find the expert, but there were Islamic scholars from around the 800's creating racial hierarchies of white+arab, asian, and black. Blacks were explicitly described as a slave race.

>>14828137
Are you trying to imply that Anatolians Germans and Celts all look the same? That is certainly not the case.
The notion of what is considered "white" is a deeply ambiguous identity. For Victorian England, Irish were not included. For the Nazis, slavs were not included. Now they are. For American education, Arabs are considered white. Most would not think of them as such. For your definition, it seems like the Irish and Slavs would be and perhaps the arabs. But even if they aren't, the question becomes "how does one define race." It is much harder than one would think and not something I would want to form a spiritual movement on the back of.

Regardless of how you respond to that, my point really is that race is not a characteristic that has any sort of deep spiritual validity. Even if such a thing exists like you say it does, It is too dependent upon historical circumstance and sociological background. What is going to be considered "white" will change depending on historical circumstances and your perception of the "other."

>>14828172
>Are you trying to imply that Anatolians Germans and Celts all look the same? That is certainly not the case.
They genetically cluster close to one another.

>For Victorian England, Irish were not included.
That's empirically false. Anti-Irish propaganda doesn't mean that they were classified as legally nonwhite. Racial anthropologists at the time all agreed that Irish were white Europeans; it wasn't even a question taken seriously.

>For the Nazis, slavs were not included.
Also empirically false. Poles were actually included as an example of an Aryan people on the NatSoc racial document.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_certificate
>A "Swede or an Englishman, a Frenchman or Czech, a Pole or Italian" was considered to be related, that is, "Aryan".

>"how does one define race."
That hasn't been an issue in America. All indo-european groups have always been considered white (italians, armenians, slavs, etc have been in America since the 1600's and were all considered white and generally married into the greater Anglo population - and yes, there were anti-miscegenation laws in place in Virginia, which was the pan-European american hotbed, and it never intefered.)

Maryland actually put their anti-misceg. laws in place in response to the marriage of a black and an irish person. This was in the 1670's I believe.

>Regardless of how you respond to that
Then why bring it up? You just threw a lot of shit on the wall that I had to respond to?

You are arguing in horrible faith.

>my point really is that race is not a characteristic that has any sort of deep spiritual validity.
Evola has explained before that a lot of races generally lack the mental capacity to actual spiritual truths, thus they fall to hedonism, which is clearly the case with blacks. There are some exceptions, but the general populace of blacks follow this trend.

>What is going to be considered "white" will change depending on historical circumstances and your perception of the "other."
Already responded to this.

>>14828222
It is very difficult for me to argue with you if you need to use a frog image to emotionally reinforce your claims every time.

>Evola has explained before that a lot of races generally lack the mental capacity to actual spiritual truths, thus they fall to hedonism, which is clearly the case with blacks. There are some exceptions, but the general populace of blacks follow this trend.
Not really a fair statement considering there are numerous sociological and historical reasons for such a thing that can be explained without literally saying "spirituality isn't in your dna."
I don't see how such a statement is good for anyone. If you tell them their entire life that they are inferior and beat them down, of course they are going to limit themselves.

>That hasn't been an issue in America
Much more complicated than you make it out to be. Racial passing, etc. However, it is possible that you are referring to just the law. In that case, I don't know enough to respond to that claim. I suspect things were not clear cut simply because it is law and things are never clear cut in the law.

The racial documment you post only lists poles, not other slavic peoples so while you may be correct, I can't conclude anything for the entirety of slavs based on that. Also I have not seen any such thing about the irish. I am interested though if you link it to be.

I am going to stop responding now since I think our conversation is no longer about the original topic and moreso just about the geneology of racial categories. Not really either our intentions for discussing at the beginning.

>>14828290
>Not really a fair statement considering there are numerous sociological and historical reasons
You brought up sociological and historical reasons against race, so I responded to them.

>Much more complicated than you make it out to be. Racial passing, etc.
How does that work as a counter claim? Racial passing would assume that they are pretending to be a race that they are not?

>The racial documment you post only lists poles, not other slavic peoples
It also listed Czechs. The Germans also worked with Russian monarchists, if I am not mistaken. They also considered Bosniaks, Croats to be Aryans. Same with basically every other slavic group.

You actually should be providing me with evidence that they considered this groups to be nonwhite. The burden of proof is on you.

>I am going to stop responding now
Thanks for wasting my time.

>Not really either our intentions for discussing at the beginning.
You were the one who made sociological claims, lmao.

>>14828322
>You brought up sociological and historical reasons against race, so I responded to them.
And? You didn't respond to the fact that a group can be "degenerate" from societal factors and not from "spiritual degeneracy" being encoded into their dna.

>You actually should be providing me with evidence that they considered this groups to be nonwhite. The burden of proof is on you.
I have no obligation to do anything.

>Thanks for wasting my time.
No one ever forced you to respond.

>You were the one who made sociological claims, lmao.
Not about American racial policy. The discussion was about the origins of the concept of race. I hope you can still remember that. Once again, difficult to take you seriously if you need to use acronyms like lmao to add emotion to your argument. Just shows frusturation. You surely are not laughing

>>14828361
>You didn't respond to the fact that a group can be "degenerate" from societal factors and not from "spiritual degeneracy" being encoded into their dna.
Evola argued that societal and spiritual decline are interlinked, hence “our version of evolution will teach that the ape evolved from man, not the man from ape.”

He said that these more savage races are the result of spiritual decline.

>origin of the concept of race
It’s an empirical reality. I argued that at the beginning. We can literally do dna testing and see what race you are.

>>14818199
Was hoping from the description it was Molyneux.

>>14828429
*biological, societal, and spiritual decline are all interlinked

>>14827927
>>>14827892
> petty bourgeois nationalism.

So what if it's mostly poor workers who are looking for this? Haha. Most "bourgeois" think like you. You're worldview fits perfectly into our liberal capitalistic and academic bourgeois.

>There is nothing of spirituality: only showmanship, romanticism, and delusion.

You speak of guenon... Spirituality makes use of outward ritual forms to lead to the inward. This being showmanship. If you could see what this desire to return to tradition comes from, then you wouldn't be so agitated by it. The majority of men need religious association and christianity barely gives this depth anymore. You should be able to acknowledge the difference between men and their differing positions within the social order.
Really though, you are just an asshole, who believes he acts in favor of the common man, whilst denying the common mans desire to find his own sense of worth within in society because it differs from yours.
Bourgeois faggot.

>>14828581
> You're worldview fits perfectly into our liberal capitalistic and academic bourgeois.
You can't even express yourself correctly. You just throw pejorative epithets against a wall and hope they stick. Sad.

> ritual forms to lead to the inward. This being showmanship
If you think symbolism is the same thing as larping in anachronistic costumes that don't fit the time period, you are beyond deluded.


Once again, if you think dedication to an arbitrary westphalian nation state has any transcendent value whatsoever, there is no use even talking to you. What the "common man" desires is the opposite of what is good if you want to speak of Guenon. Nowhere did I speak to act in the interest of any specific group. The fact that you need to strawman to struggle out a point is quite telling.

>>14828429
do you think that evola goes too far in emphasizing the transcendent over the material?

>>14828172
>>>14828137

>Regardless of how you respond to that, my point really is that race is not a characteristic that has any sort of deep spiritual validity. Even if such a thing exists like you say it does, It is too dependent upon historical circumstance and sociological background. What is going to be considered "white" will change depending on historical circumstances and your perception of the "other."

Whew. You have rationalized yourself out of a pretty basic understanding of social order. I truly think only smart people (midwits) can be utter retards. Do you make valid points? Sure. But you are over emphasising them so as to fit to your comfy political delusions.
Who knew social order was based not only on deep mental and spiritual unity but also on physical/biological unity. Whew.
I'm not arguing for complete purity spiraling here, but there has to be some similarity.

>>14828361
He has taken apart of most of your arguments while twice now you have insisted that this is pointless and you'll stop, yet you continue.

>>14828619
These arguments you have made fit perfectly into academia, which is bourgeois.
You have used epithets from the start. You truly do argue in bad faith.

>>14828637
No, he balances them both well. I advise reading “meditations of the peaks” for a good understanding of how Evola balances the two.

>>14828688
Not an arugment. You are simply tailing of my points since you have none of your own.

Holy based....

>>14818267
Based Corona-chan

>>14818199

>>14818199
>constantly forgets the Salawāt upon our Great Teacher (ﷺ)
Sorry brother, but I cannot watch these videos. His behaviour repulses me to the core.

>>14822205
converts are not low-caste, their treatment depends on the sect and area but there are Hindu sects which accept fully and offer traditional initiations to non-Indians like the Veerashaivas

At the heart of Perennial Philosophy lies the matter-spirit duality that has retarded progress in thinking about religion, religiosity, and religious experiences. And this duality is itself based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the distinction between epistemology and ontology: i.e., mistaking experience for reality. The single metaphysical truth is not the conclusion of Perennial Philosophy, it is the intuitive premise on which it is based. Religious experiences merely confirm this intuition. This is not to say that people do not have experiences that are outside the usual range of waking awareness. Altered experiences are relatively common.

>>14832396
Lol what a pseud

Can a Gueanon answer this question for me itt? I don't want to make a new thread for it.

Why exactly did Guenon convert to sufism as opposed to practicing (catholic) Chrisitan mystical theology? I understand he got an Egyptian waifu out of his later life of a sufi so perhaps this is the mundane reason, but i'm still curious if he had any other stated reasons.

>>14832431
Because Sufism is a long-standing tradition with many Sufi orders going back many hundreds of years, where you can personally be initiated into it and be instructed in the esoteric doctrine by someone who themselves received such an instruction and so on going back many centuries. Genuine esoterism and/or esoteric transmission of doctrine in this sense is practically non-existent in Catholicism. While there have been Catholic mystics and metaphysicians, many of them were persecuted as heretics, or had their reputations harmed by allegations of heresy like Eckhart, there are no long-standing Catholic organizations or brotherhoods involving transmission of esoteric metaphysical knolwedge in the sense that Guenon writes about. Yes there have been certain Catholic thinkers who went deep into metaphysics but typically a catholic preist or monk etc would study them in a more classroom setting as opposed to being directly initiated into the doctrine by someone with a deep and personal understanding of said doctrine themselves.

>>14818199
I agree he is retarded. I don't like Guenon though because he just tries to convey all genuine traditions as being nondual, which causes more problems.

>>14833298
>convey all genuine traditions as being nondual, which causes more problems.
Why, what's wrong with that?

>>14833575
I have many arguments for how cosmological dualism makes more sense. I don't want to give them right now because I am afraid of plagiarism.

>>14828028
honestly where are they??? like i can not find a place on the internet anymore where interesting people discuss engaging topics. where is it happening? even twitter gcs or discord have the same problem

>>14833584
Lmao

>>14828680
I disagree, I thought that other anon logically DESTROYED that brainlet racialist who didn’t even know that white identitarianism wasn’t even a thing until the modern era and just scrambled for thoughtless retorts whilstdve cringiley posting frog pics like a stupid 2016 election tourist. Once again that other anon absolutely murdered him (in writing of course) and figuratively dismembered his limbs through raw argumentation in a blood bath of a debate.

>>14834212
cringe

Based....

I often see attacks on perennialism on the basis of the emphasis on learning 'the truth' by studying multiple traditions versus following one tradition. For example muslims saying that Guenon's views are heretical because instead of being satisfied with the study of Islam, he searched for truth in other traditions. This is not to say that muslims would deny that there is truth somewhere in them, since Allah sent prophets to all nations but that there is no need to study other religions once Guenon had found the truth in Islam.
Is this attack valid?
How would Guenon have responded?

>>14818223
Theory of Islamic theology? Sure!

>>14835661
Isn't Islamic theology basically Catholicism with the Trinity removed?

>>14818245
Your mind is ruled by sissy hypnosis.

Does anyone have Symbols of Sacred Science?
Is it the same book as this one?

>>14832610
>there are no long-standing Catholic organizations or brotherhoods involving transmission of esoteric metaphysical knowledge in the sense that Guenon writes about. Yes there have been certain Catholic thinkers who went deep into metaphysics but typically a catholic preist or monk etc would study them in a more classroom setting as opposed to being directly initiated into the doctrine by someone with a deep and personal understanding of said doctrine themselves.

that's not really true, i'm surprised people have this take away. Any monastic order is pretty much the same thing, spiritual retreats are where they'd practice mysticism. It seems like to me, if that's the case Guenon is arguing, he just didn't want to take it upon himself the whole that Catholicism asked of him, it's probably much easier to be initiated as a sufi than to be accepted as a monk.

bros, Guenon looks so peaceful in his older pictures...how do i achieve the same state of blissfulness, to become nothing, to not exist?

>>14837219
Holy based... His pictures truly are a source of spiritual nourishment for the soul...

>>14836126
Yes, brother, that is the same traditional manuscript.

>>14821379
Very based. Your great service will not be forgotten by our Holy Order, brother.

>>14818199
Spenglerians and evolians are satanic. Guy literally has demonic paintings on his walls and consults a medium to talk to dead people. Anti-traditionnelle; serves the lord of the world etc.

>>14837873
What about Duginians? I've heard conflicting views on the matter.

>>14838136
oh yeah, I should've included duginists.

>>14818214
teach me your ways senpaii

>>14818551
>>14818551
this but unironically

someone explain this guenon (pbuh) shit to me
I feel like it's one and the same person making these threads all the time

>>14839157
non-dualistically there is

>>14839462
BASED

>>14839462
We are all Guneon brothers