/lit/ - Literature

There was some article about how the South Korean gouvernment is having some sort of inferiority complex in regards to how especially Japan is regarded much more highly in terms of culture, in the west. So they do in fact have quite a large program also that tries to make South Korean Literature happen. 'The Vegetarian' afaik was tied somewhat directly into that, as the translation was financed, for example. That is not at all unusual of course – lots of countries support the translation of their literature via grants.

Anyways, I feel it’s still easier to meme yourself an Academy Award Winning movie, you just have to cater to white Hollywood stupid political ideas, than to gain a Nobel Price in Literature just like that.
They may collect some more International Booker Prize though.

>>14788338
The movie is honestly trash, and I never had much hope in cinema to begin with. Who honestly has time for this type of art? Anyone who isn't a psychopath will just feel depressed watching this because it offers no way to transcend the horror it depicts. Human beings are treated like trash. It is just a bad piece lets be honest.

>>14788447
Korean, Japanese- tomayto, tomahto

>>14788476
>i'm mad because parasite is a tragedy and i want my happy endings
?

>>14788513
Tragedy is tolerable because it occurs within the context of a spiritual revelation. That is why people go to tragedy and watch a man get his eyes poked out, and don't feel horribly depressed afterwards.
>Why, you don't like seeing horrible things? You must be a faggot!

>>14788528
>Tragedy is tolerable because it occurs within the context of a spiritual revelation
what are you talking about?

>>14788476
I loved it personally, but fair enough if you don't like depressing stuff, though I thought there were enough thrills and laughs in the movie to counteract it being a miserable slog.

>>14788447
>>>/jp/
>>>/tv/

>>14788338
>Now that Korea has established itself as the foremost country with respect to cinema and music
Lol what

I didn't like it at all, but wouldn't say it's bad. I loved the film Burning though, which is South Korean and came out a year or too ago. It's much bleaker and more daring than Parasite, Parasite was safe and inconsequential. I still have to see The Handmaiden though, which I've heard good things about.

>>14788594
It's bait dude, just ignore it.

>>14788476
So you didn't like it because it made you feel the hopelessness and anger of the societal configuration it depicted and the fact that it can't be easily explained through or fixed via individual choice
That's interesting, anon

>oh, my rich boss said I smell bad
>GET STABBED, PIG
How this won an Oscar is beyond me.

>>14788338
>cinema and music

>>14789315
>t. the entire movie went straight over my head

>>14789433
It's either bait or someone who's probably best left to babble to himself in peace

>>14788338
mcdonalds arthouse

>>14788338
>>14788447
Korea is the worst of Japan, China and America rolled into one.
So its pure fucking trash.

This movie is trash and you people know it. Nobody would give a shit about it if it wasn’t Korean. The message behind it is literally Purge-tier trash, only one step above The Hunger Games.

>>14789654
>The message behind it is literally Purge-tier trash, only one step above The Hunger Games.
It directly contradicts the naive narratives that both those movies are framed by, retard
How about you watch it again and pay attention instead of inserting your own suspicions and sensitivities into your analysis

>>14788600
Both Burning and Parasite were great and left me walking out of the theatre wondering wtf just fucking happened and the left my mind in such a uniquely blank and confused state .

>>14788476
I find it amazing that there is always someone that absolutely hates whatever I like. Goes to show how subjective art is and the babbling we all do to gatekeep what can be decried as prestige.

>>14789721
i just hate that one girl from burning
how come you fuck this one guy then invites him to a date with another guy you're fucking?????
btw that scene where she's called a slut just hit me real hard

>>14790427
>i just hate that one girl from burning
she's functionally little more than a plot device

>>14790427
Because he was a literary beta. He was jealous of the rich guy, but didn’t want to end up like his father.

The movie is good but it's literally one movie

Korean music is trash

>>14790558
Devastating counterpoint:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W750EAMapXg

>>14788338
Argie movies are better.

>>14790568

this do be deeply derivative of japanese shit doe

>>14790624
The internet has rendered those distinctions nearly meaningless across most countries. Besides, Mid-Air Thief clearly takes the majority of influence from western music, and Japanese music which was also inspired by western music

>>14788338
Every Korean (specifically women) I know is insane. Their veneer of sanity slips at the most benign slight and then they obsess and compound their anxiety and stress until a minor inconvenience spirals way out of control. It becomes all they can talk and think about when everyone else has moved on or not even noticed it to begin with. Not even talking about romance here, where such things may be seen as permissible. This is simply day-to-day stuff. You find it in most Korean exports. Haven’t seen Parasite but based on Old Boy and a few other titles you see it. I believed the events and characters in Old Boy were as detached from reality as Mark Wahlberg drinking a can of bud in the middle of a decepticon onslaught is from average American life but it would seem that it isn’t. K-pop in and of itself is built around obsession moreso than Western pop. Whereas Western media deals with obsession as trying to understand ‘why’, either in a psychoanalytic or a symbolic way (Bunuel films may be a good example), Koreans just present it. Now you see many Western fans getting as fanatic about K-pop groups which seems out of place and ‘bandwagon’.

Parasite says nothing, risks nothing, and conveys nothing. People are not changed by seeing Parasite, so it can hardly even be called art. Postmodernists will claim that being affected by art is gay, and that's why stuff like this exists in the first place.

>>14790717
What the fuck are you talking about

>>14788338
>Now that Korea
>Now
you're late to the party

Burning is the superior South Korean film about ressentiment

>>14788476
low iq low test posturers need to leave

>>14790729
>>14790717
He’s right, there’s a reason an incredibly stupid mass decided to like it

does anyone else hate that this movie, which imo is very good, is now being talked up by baby brained twitter retards who are pretending to like it just so they can shoehorn it into some american-centric culture war narrative where it doesn't even fit? it's a fucking movie about class by a guy heavily influenced by western directors, some of whom he praised in his acceptance speech, and these retards act like it's the south korean lady ghostbusters or some shit. i swear to god normies learning how to use the internet was the worst thing to happen to our species.

does anyone else hate that this movie, which imo is very good, is now being talked up by baby brained twitter retards who are pretending to like it just so they can shoehorn it into some american-centric culture war narrative where it doesn't even fit? it's a fucking movie about class by a guy heavily influenced by western directors, some of whom he praised in his acceptance speech, and these retards act like it's some fuck whitey movie. i swear to god normies learning how to use the internet was the worst thing to happen to our species. these people should stick to capeshit and raceswapped remakes of popular franchises.

>>14790821
lol most of America has not seen it and ranged from not caring to being upset that it won best picture. The fact that some of the birdbrained liberal bourgeoise gushed over it as a virtue signal while interpreting it in a manner of completely retarded way (no fucking shit, who do you think these people are) does not mean that there isn't a lot about it that's worthy of praise

>>14790881
>in a manner of completely retarded way
jesus
*in completely retarded ways

>>14790881
It was a very-good film, but hardly the masterpiece that it is touted to be. What about it is more praiseworthy than Burning?

>>14788338
This movie is disgustingly average

>>14788476
>NOOO YOU CAN'T SHOW ME THE HARSH REALITY WHERE ARE MUH SUPERHEROES
retards like you are the reason Hollywood is so garbage. Do you even fucking read? What are you doing here?

>>14789564
>it's popular so not real arthouse
fuck off. Go watch your overrated silent films
>>14790864
>Twitter
found your problem. It's bound to happen to anything popular, social media anglos are absolutely neurotic

>>14790910
I haven't seen Burning, none of the posts in that chain have mentioned it
I completely agree that it isn't a masterpiece, but I don't doubt that some people earnestly see it that way and understand why it may speak to deeply to them. I also don't doubt that some people are highly exaggerating to be either cultured or woke
I'd actually be more comfortable calling Uncut Gems a masterpiece of a film than I would Parasite, even though Gems is almost completely void of thematic depth. And I think Parasite's exploration of its themes is astonishing and the most impressive part of the film

>>14788338
Is South Korea the most soulless country on planet earth?

>>14790944
>harsh reality
What part of that movie had any resemblance to reality.
The movie was good, certainly not oscar worthy though

>>14788338
>Now that Korea has established itself as the foremost country with respect to cinema and music
nice bait

>>14788338
Daily reminder that you will never read The Story of Hong Gildong, The Cloud Dream of the Nine, Our Twisted Hero, or The Vegetarian because you just want either a) a /pol/ bait thread or b) a coomer kpop thread.

>>14791004
The part where the poorfags are dumb and jealous of richfags, on top of smelling bad.

>>14790864
Be thankful he gets to get real money now. Hopefully he uses it well.

>>14788338
This wasn't even close to the best movie of the year. It's good, don't get me wrong, but it is literal bait for pretentious retards to crawl out from their gutters.

>>14788338
was it made by best korea? i only watch it if it was made by best korea

>>14790910
Based.
Burning is one of the best movies of the decade for me, and I almost burst a blood vessel everytime people i know who never have been interested in korean films start gushing over it but never bother to watch other korean films. Now don't get me wrong I like Parasite, but im getting tired of it being touted as a masterpiece.

>>14789433
>MUH SYMBOLISM

>>14788338
the overlapping of the plot's internal logic and what bits were also meant to be symbolic or metaphors was not entirely consistent. this was mainly due to the fact that the film's underlying ideology is incredibly facile.

for e.g. a lot of people have said how the husband of the cleaner in the bunker represents how workers are always grateful for their bosses even if their bosses give them hardly anything --> i.e. the parasite being grateful to the host. and yet the park family have no clue that he is living there. and if they did know they would most likely be very hospitable towards him. but one could just say their ignorance around this is just another symbol about how the rich are unaware of the class divide in Korea- which IMO is incredibly silly- anything that can't be rationalized in the film's narrative is some other symbol in an already flawed ideology

>>14790978
yeah

>>14791644

>RESPECT!!!

Ok I admit it myself that I'm a retard but no matter how much I think about this, I just can't see the rich family as any kind of villain. They were respectful and trusting towards the poor family and even though they judged them for their smell or sth, humans can't help but judge other people, but the fact that they didn't let their judgment affect their behaviour towards them is as good as you're gonna get.
On the other hand, the poor family were manipulative and screwed over the rich and the poor just to benefit themselves which I don't blame them for, but I guess what I'm getting at is that the rich family can't do anything about the fact that they're rich, I don't really know how they could have acted in the movie to be better people but the poor family could act better and try to continue living shitty but without screwing other people.
Not trying to be a contrarian or anything, I guess I'm just retarded and I would appreciate it if someone could make me better understand the movie.

>>14788338
Parasite play all his cards to the "allegory" game. nothing is credible in the movie. only if you see the plot like a metaphore you will end satisfied. it was a weak move (to me) playing all the cards to this allegory.
i cant end the movie because of that, while i see it (and i watch it before oscar nominations and all the circus...) i imagine average and intelectually exhausted people feeling inteligent and intellectual and feeling how this movie in particular make them "think" precisely because everything is so evident and in your face that you dont need to think too much about it in the first place.
it reminded me so much to joseph losey "the servant" (which had the same problem, if you dont play the allegory game all the characters decisions are stupid and unnatural...)
i imagine the hour i left gonna be some kind of confusing plot with a precipited ending that cant even collect all the elements (like the director do in Snowpiercer (another cheap allegory with a non sensical ending...)
and i suspect all the allegory gonna be some kind of bland "classes are bad". (bland but totally powerful to many people, probably that is the reason for oscar and cannes...) anyway, maybe im wrong, i tried two times to end it and i cant do it.
basically i cant play well the allegory game if dont have, at least, some subtleness. wich is dont the case in Parasite.

>>14789698
>It directly contradicts the naive narratives that both those movies are framed by

how so? both films are basically:
>class systems exist
>rich people greedy
>poor people oppressed

Parasite does the oh so clever flip of:
>poor people also greedy
>people are doomed to misery

Woah... amazing narrative. I'd be down for it if the whole movie didn't feel like a kdrama anime and it was filmed as a marxist realist film instead- sort of like Kes. But the whole plot is cartoonish and ridiculous. Doesn't have any kind of bearing on the life of working class Koreans at all.

The whole film criticises capitalism but it's soaked in the soulless, hyper capitalist Korean culture already.

Korean cinema is really, REALLY overrated. They don't hold a candle to something like japanese cinema in the 50's, eastern new wave of the 50-60's, Hollywood in the 60-70's and other amazing cinematic branches of the past century.

>>14788338
>Music
Lmao. They haven't even been able to top Gangnam Style yet.

Not even the best film from that director, why did everyone go crazy over it all of a sudden

my fucking dad was talking about seeing this film in the cinema and he always made fun of me for watching "chinese" i.e. all moon rune yerrow kino

>>14791729
this film was made for the tut-tutter moralists on Twitter who believe that property is theft and that the 1% should be exterminated by firing squad

The Irishman was my favorite movie of 2019 because I like mob movies :^)

>>14791644
The problem is that you missed the point
Again and again the movie keeps showing the key part of the whole message: the rich family are not oppressors and not malicious. Their individual choices are not responsible for the class subjugation, it's a feature of the system they inhabit that they can't even see. They aren't bad people, they never once in the entire movie express any outright distaste for the poor. It's always slight little things that are innocent enough to be bothered by but all together are clearly associated with the lower classes: they're disgusted by the smell of the subway, promiscuity and drug use, overly colloquial or casual interactions, etc.
The entire thing is a showcase of how social dynamics themselves can sustain horrible inequalities and injustices, even when every living person is simply doing their best to live in the environment they're acclimated to. The poor are forced to become LITERAL ---> PARASITES <--- lurking in the crevasses of beautiful cities and houses that were not made for them, hidden out of sight for their own protection and thus further obscuring the inequality to the rich
The movie has no villains

This scene won the oscars
>tfw no cutie korean trophy wife

>>14792192
>Gangnam style was 8 years ago

>>14792369
>inequality is like, built into the system man
Bravo

>>14788447
Parasite won Cannes as well, which is the most prestigious award in the film world.

>>14792404
You can't mock the simplicity or unoriginality of the themes if you already showed that you misunderstood them, that's just a self-own

>>14788476
I thought /lit/ was the smart board. You are beyond retarded.

>>14792190
>living in the past

>>14791731
>hasnt even watched the film
>spews bullshit anyway
Am I on /tv/?

>>14792435
You think /lit/ is any better about having read/watched the things they criticize?

>>14792428
I'm objectively correct and you know it.

>>14791729
That’s because you’re a bootlicker who loves the taste of dog shit. The rich are not meant to be the villains, the “villain” is the system which enables such vast inequalities in the first place. This is literally telegraphed by the vertical axis throughout the film, culminating with figurative “trickle down economics” snowballing into a freak storm that floods their basement house with the shit of their superiors. Trouble is most western audiences can only think in black and white terms, of protagonists and antagonists, if a film tries to address a structural issue that has many shades of grey it goes right over your heads

>>14788476
This is a Park Yeon-kyo-tier take

>>14792459
See if the film did this it’d be profound, but every critic I read said muh rich people or muh capitalism with no elaboration

>>14792481
And almost every critic I’ve read has said they are going to say very little about the film because it’s a much better going in with minimal knowledge of the plot. Which begs the question, why would you come into a thread like this if you haven’t even seen the film? Seems like you’ve already let the impressions of others push you towards a conclusion before you’ve even seen it.

>>14792481
Holy shit you're just admitting that you haven't fucking seen it
No fucking shit American critics are retards oh my god man

>>14792453
In the past, yes. But we're talking about the present state of East Asian cinema.

>>14792481
>second-hand opinions

yo bros Burning was phenomenal and better than parasite imo
i wish it got the acclaim that parasite did

>>14792435
by the answers in the thread i think im not wrong. look at this guy

>>14792369
>>14792459
this is exactly how i imagine the mental processing of a fan of the movie
>the poor are forced to become LITERAL ---> PARASITES"
dont you get it?.... wow this movie really make you think. the world is so bad.

>>14792413
I wasn't the original poster you replied to
>muh systemic inequality
Gooky dooky commie nonsense

>>14788476
Imagine being the uncultured low IQ proles who replied negatively to this post, but will spam the "start with the greeks" meme in every other thread kek. Clearly they are too stupid to understand what tragedy entails.

>>14788447
Pretty much nothing coming out of Korea is organic, the amount of subsidies k-pop receives from the Government is insane.

>>14792459
Then I don't see the value in the film. Is the message "the system is bad"? Cause I think everyone already knows that and if it just criticises the system without even attempting to show an alternative, it's not hard, is it?
Nature itself is unequal. I don't go around screaming "kill the smart" or "kill the beautiful" cause I'm an ugly retard. Of course I'm in favor of high taxes on the rich and welfare programs but I don't expect that there be no rich people.

>>14792459
>This is literally telegraphed by the vertical axis throughout the film, culminating with figurative “trickle down economics” snowballing into a freak storm that floods their basement house with the shit of their superiors
This is why people don't like film grads.

>>14792504
Which like I said doesn't even come close to past iterations of asian cinema. Hell, korean cinema isn't even the best in the region at present-day, losing handily to south-east asian, mainland chinese and with even japanese cinema giving koreans a run for their money with the likes of Kore-eda, Wakamatsu and Sono. Korean cinema is for k-pop fangirls that want to seem more intelligent than their counterparts.

>>14792589
You are the death of art

>>14791452
Based and /thread

>>14792459
I can only imagine your smug grin of self-satisfaction while writing this and thinking you're the first person to ever reach this interpretation of the film.

>>14792589
It's just a fucking story, not a hardcore political analysis, you giga autist.

>>14792618
You don't have to imagine, you realize the guy who made this also made Snowpiercer right? the amount of fucking people who independently discovered the entire film is literally "we live in a society" and were really really proud of themselves for understanding that was insane.

>>14792618
FUCKING RETARD HE IS EXPLAINING THE OBVIOUS THEMES TO ONE OF YOUR RETARD BROTHERS WHO SOMEHOW MANAGED TO MISS THEM
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH YOU PEOPLE ARE GOING TO MAKE ME GO FREEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAKING LOOOOOOCOOOOOOOOOOOOO AAAAAAAAUUUUUGGGGGHGGHHHHHAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHTTTTTHHHTHHTHTH

>>14792604
One good thing Japan has going on is Miike.

>>14792631
Miike is more a miss than a hit for me (same with Sono) but I appreciate their attempts of doing something new instead of falling prey to the empty melodrama and shitty juvenile stories that plagued japanese cinema in the late-90's and early-00's.

>>14792643
Yea he's hit or miss. 13 Assassins was top KINO, though.

>>14792628
The dude also directed Okja and The Host lol. You don't get more politically juvenile than this, and it's sad that he gets indulged so much is his pseudry by the intellectual and artistic classes like some sort of brilliant multi-layered auteur.

>>14792664
>the dude
go back

>>14792495
I have. I saw it twice, I liked it a lot, but wouldn’t say it’s a masterpiece. My point was more so a criticism of the critics that heralded than him.

>>14792494
I have. Twice.

My point was that other great movies have been made this decade, burning is a better film, and it only has acclaim because it’s accessible and dumb or misunderstood.

>>14792674
>>14792664
He also directed snowpiercer which was worthless

>>14792690
It was alright. Kind of Gnostic.

>>14792626
>>14792607
you guys are right. I guess what I don't get is that why leftists are acting like this movie works in favor of them. I see it more as a bleak "the system is unjust and there is nothing we can do about it" story.

>>14792696
Rules of the game is better. Watch that for a better criticism of the system.

>>14792692
It’s a solid 6/10

>>14792674
What? Unless he recently started identifying himself as trans, he IS a dude.

>>14792721
We dont use those normie terms here.

>>14792730
"Normie" is itself a normie term.

>>14792748
Not here.

>Brainlets ITT falling for copypasta
lel

>>14792589
Why should a film have to show an alternative when it’s concern is so evidently with the reality of the way things are now? What kind of person expects a movie to solve the ills of capitalism in under two hours? Lower your expectations mate, because no film has that answer.

>>14792600
Not a film grad, but thanks for giving me the credibility of degree-level spiel.

>>14792618
I don’t think I’m the only one to think that, many other critics have picked up on his use of space and verticality. Accusing me of being smug doesn’t mean I’m wrong, nor am I making the film out to be an absolute masterpiece, because it isn’t. Bong joon ho just has a very strong grasp of the fundamentals of composing a scene

>>14792156
>filmed as a marxist realist film instead
That sounds about five times more unbearable.

bump

>>14788476
Based.

>>14792369
>it's a feature of the system they inhabit that they can't even see
omfg!!! holy shit... this is DEEP! it says something about LIFE!

>>14788338
The south government spent years trying to get a korean author to win a nobel prize only to blow up in their face when he got canceled by sexual harassment allegations, who knows when they'll recover from that

>>14792369
>The problem is that you missed the point
>Again and again the movie keeps showing the key part of the whole message: the rich family are not oppressors and not malicious. Their individual choices are not responsible for the class subjugation, it's a feature of the system they inhabit that they can't even see. They aren't bad people, they never once in the entire movie express any outright distaste for the poor. It's always slight little things that are innocent enough to be bothered by but all together are clearly associated with the lower classes: they're disgusted by the smell of the subway, promiscuity and drug use, overly colloquial or casual interactions, etc.
>The entire thing is a showcase of how social dynamics themselves can sustain horrible inequalities and injustices, even when every living person is simply doing their best to live in the environment they're acclimated to. The poor are forced to become LITERAL ---> PARASITES <--- lurking in the crevasses of beautiful cities and houses that were not made for them, hidden out of sight for their own protection and thus further obscuring the inequality to the rich
>The movie has no villains

>>14792459
>That’s because you’re a bootlicker who loves the taste of dog shit. The rich are not meant to be the villains, the “villain” is the system which enables such vast inequalities in the first place. This is literally telegraphed by the vertical axis throughout the film, culminating with figurative “trickle down economics” snowballing into a freak storm that floods their basement house with the shit of their superiors. Trouble is most western audiences can only think in black and white terms, of protagonists and antagonists, if a film tries to address a structural issue that has many shades of grey it goes right over your heads

Holy shit bros! It's not the rich people individually who are bad! It's the invisible patriarchal capitalist system!!

>>14788476
>>14793807
>>14793833
>>14793840
Very based.

>>14788338
>>14792369
>>14792459
Very cringe.

>>14793840
>>14793833
>>14793807
Alright chads, we've seen your critique, now what about your proposed substitution?
What did the movie get wrong and how would you fix it?

>>14793864
Throw away the current script and make the movie about how one should return to God.

I think Koreans have overtaken the Anglo in the severity of the 'bugman' ethos manifesting in them. The Eastern peoples truly cannot deal with this, and it is just sad to witness what the 'bugmanic' Anglo has done to their societies.

>>14793894
Uhh what?
Homogenous, efficiency-driven societies with skewed emphasis away from the individual, towards the community and the approval thereof has been the East's bread and butter for millennia, the west is a total newcomer to that game. It's why eastern "bugmen" remain sincere: their devotion to the sustenance of the broader economic system is a deeply ingrained value that truly animates them and brings them meaning (generally speaking, I know). The west, in contrast, must trick its own bugmen into doing the work by enticing them with "correct" and "interesting" identities they may assume, distracting them from the selfless nature of their labor with a constant barrage of offers to trade autonomy or earnestness for cheap thrills and empty promises of social admiration from others. We're atomized individuals herded and enticed through a collective system whereas those in the east are often collectivists from the core of their hearts, much better suited for the task

>>14793864
Not trying to force the audience into feeling empathy for the band of cutthroats that was the poor family would be a start.

>>14793944
>Uhh what?
>Homogenous, efficiency-driven societies with skewed emphasis away from the individual, towards the community and the approval thereof has been the East's bread and butter for millennia, the west is a total newcomer to that game. It's why eastern "bugmen" remain sincere: their devotion to the sustenance of the broader economic system is a deeply ingrained value that truly animates them and brings them meaning (generally speaking, I know). The west, in contrast, must trick its own bugmen into doing the work by enticing them with "correct" and "interesting" identities they may assume, distracting them from the selfless nature of their labor with a constant barrage of offers to trade autonomy or earnestness for cheap thrills and empty promises of social admiration from others. We're atomized individuals herded and enticed through a collective system whereas those in the east are often collectivists from the core of their hearts, much better suited for the task

>>14793944
>efficiency-driven
>much better suited for the task
that is just your modernist profane reading of Eastern peoples.

>>14794043
I realize I'm in no place to make accurate judgements but I think it's widely understood that the west is uniquely focused on individualism compared to the rest of the world. It's a relatively new advancement without much precedent in ancient history. Maybe I should have reframed my point by saying that those raised in Western culture are uniquely ill-fitted for collectivist systems and require (for now) more incentives to allow their own subjugation, whereas humans removed from western culture are far more emotionally/philosophically prepared to work as just one small piece of a greater whole

>>14794095
>whereas humans removed from western culture are far more emotionally/philosophically prepared to work as just one small piece of a greater whole
Which makes their subversion and subsequent morphing into bugmen an even greater feat than an obviously degenerate (for centuries, if not millenia) civilization that was merely naturally playing out it course towards spearheading bugmanism in this world.

>>14792459
>That’s because you’re a bootlicker
stopped reading here due to intense cringe

>>14791004
the movie itself is not necessarily realistic, but its themes deal with a harsh reality that the guy I was replying to didn't like
>not oscar worthy
what film should've won the Oscar then? Parasite is easily the best film of the decade

K Pop is mostly trash that is made on a top-down budget, and they have a few good movies.
>the foremost country with respect to cinema and music

>>14792481
I agree. Everyone I talk to says "it's a chilling tale about class/inequality" and just stops there. They can't even explain what that means.

>>14794128
I don't see how that makes it a "greater feat," though, maybe I'm just not understanding you. Humans have had no need for individualism for the vast majority of our time on earth, we lived in smaller familial/tribal groups whose survival was inextricably linked to our own. Only once populations were able to grow beyond any given member's capacity for full understanding did the individual suddenly gain the chance to become a more crucial focus of thought as the negation of or compliment to this unfathomable "other," as occurred intensely in the west
The imbuement of individualism in a man, only to then warp his individuality and harness it for collectivist purposes, is a far more costly and "impressive" endeavor than instilling a mindfulness of community in a man and then setting him to tasks to which that mental framework is well suited

>>14788476
That´s the point.jpeg

You know ART let´s you feel different feelings than a vague feeling of entertainment

>>14788447
You are so right cause capitalism exists only in USA and not in Korea you´re so clever

>>14790717
cause u stupid poopiehead

>>14791729
>>14792156

That´s the point . Politeness is something you must afford. It shows that it´s a privilige not everyone can afford but it´s treated like a moral value by which you can be judged

>>14794154
>what film should've won the Oscar then? Parasite is easily the best film of the decade
I think it's pretty respectable to call Parasite the film of the year (personally I'd pick Uncut Gems but I understand why it isn't best picture material) but of the decade? Either you don't see many films or I really missed something big you got out of Parasite

>>14794237
>You know ART let´s you feel different feelings than a vague feeling of entertainment
I know what you're saying, but the themes of class struggle felt extremely shallow and the movie was clearly engineered to be a rompy flick. There's sex, violence, comedy, love and horror. It's a film designed to shock the senses and attack the viewer. I just found it aesthetically ugly, like most Korean culture lol

>>14794291
When i had to read Kafkas process, the description of the ugly buildings and damp roomes i felt physically nauseated.
Uglyness is also an aesthetic in the end

I know the movie has its fault and you´re right, but if you look in this thread you see that probably most nu /lit/ anons coppied their oponion from some youtuber with a squeky voice who got big by picking on SJW and doing cringe compilations in 2016.

>>14794408
It's not that kind of ugly imo. It's just the ugliness of Korean hyper-capitalism pretending to be marxist, not a Cronenberg film

just my opinion tho :^) if you enjoyed it thats cool

>>14793894
anglos aren't even the most insectoid euros

This movie's much applauded social commentary is the most pedestrian and truistic shit I've ever seen receive such wide praise. Zipper heads produce nothing with artistic value.

My interpretation of the film is that it's a class-based critique of liberal immigration policy. This understanding is heavily informed by pic related.

Let's start by assigning classes to the various characters:
>Kim Family - Lower Class Outsiders
>Park Family - Upper Class
>Kevin's Friend - Upper Middle Class
>Housekeeper - Lower Middle Class
>Housekeeper's Husband - Lowest of the Low

Before the film starts, the Parks have two servants (housekeeper, driver) and are unknowingly subsidizing the existence of a third character in the basement. There is an additional academic (Kevin's Friend) who is somewhat independent. This represents a modern welfare state, where the middle classes work for the upper class, and the resulting profits allow for the distribution of benefits to the lowest class, either through taxation or civil society. This situation is stable with internalized hierarchies.

The Park family are wealthy, but naive and trusting, willing to listen to the words of Kevin's friend, as well as anyone else who they deem to be in his class.

The Kim family are failures. Through their laziness and stupidity (shown by their failure to fold the pizza boxes and the fact that Kevin has taken the entrance exam 4 times) they are unable to leave the lower class.

Kevin's Friend, needing someone to tutor the Park's daughter but fearing competition from his other upper-middle class classmates, recruits Kevin to take his place, believing that because he's a loser, he can be easily controlled. This proves foolish, and as soon as Kevin is inside the Parks' world, he and his family begin working to replace the existing staff and loot the pantry. Once the housekeeper was forced out, her husband was left to starve, and the Kims show no sympathy whatsoever for the man who is now their responsibility. Though the housekeeper and her husband are able to briefly regain control, things get violent. The Kims murder the housekeeper, her husband murders the Kim girl, Kim father murders Mr. Park.

The movie ends with the Park family moving away and the Kim family moving on, showing no remorse whatsoever for the destruction and havoc they've caused.

>To reiterate: A system exists with Upper, Middle, and Lower classes coexisting peacefully. Additionally, there is a group of Foreigners trapped in the lower class because of their own worthlessness. The Upper Middle Class imports one of these Lower-Class Foreigners into his world, thinking they can be easily controlled. The Upper Class naively accepts this. The Lower-Class Foreigner then drives out the Lower-Middle Class natives and replaces them with his own friends. However, as his family has no loyalty to the system, they begin to loot it. The Lower Middle Class strikes back, is defeated, and is the avenged by the Lowest Class of native. However at this point the damage is done. The Upper Class flees and the Foreigners move on in search of a new host, leaving the system in ruins.

>Parasites

>>14794488
>Let's start by assigning classes to the various characters:
anglo bugman detected.

>>14794291
>I just found it aesthetically ugly, like most Korean culture lol
Based.

>>14794438
Yeah, Scandinavians are far more buggish

>>14794488
>(shown by their failure to fold the pizza boxes and the fact that Kevin has taken the entrance exam 4 times)
While I actually quite like your overall take, these don't just reflect pure laziness in the movie. The Kims are in a desperate place and face great hardships where the wealthy would find none (the most explicit symbol being the rainstorm, a peaceful and relaxing event the Parks can enjoy from their living room while the Kims' house is flooded and all their belongings destroyed). They failed to make enough pizza boxes because earlier the streets were fumigated and the father refused to close the window, mechanically working away while the rest of his family choked around him (this along with his "without a plan, nothing can go wrong" philosophy reinforces the father as the only family member truly acclimated to this existence, one of his many similarities to the husband under the stairs). The entrance exam doesn't indicate laziness either, but it's a uniquely south Korean thing so I don't blame you for reading it that way. Those exams are one of the only reliable routes out of poverty available to SK's lower classes and the competition among them to get it is absolutely ruthless and lacks any solidarity (so I was told by a south Korean). Kevin is shown to be intelligent and hardworking throughout the whole movie (well... not exactly intelligent by the end) so I don't think we were supposed to consider him lazy

The director is incapable of subtlety the point it’s obnoxious. It was a step above Snowpiercer, which ham fisted to the point of being comical. It seems to be the type of movie which says the thing tastemakers want to hear without making them think too much. Mediocre at best.

>>14794671
Did the part at the end where a character is literally beaten over the head with a rock he called "metaphorical" not serve as any indication to you that the obvious bits may have been used deliberately, and may be masking deeper, more subtle points?
For such an obnoxiously obvious movie, a lot of people including reviewers sure seem to have badly misinterpreted it

>>14794689
and not only beaten, but left permanently brain damaged by the very symbol he placed his hope in, left to foolishly labor away, hoping to save his ambitionless father by buying a house he will never be able to afford

If this is what counts as good cinema these days then that is depressing

>>14794630

>They failed to make enough pizza boxes because earlier the streets were fumigated and the father refused to close the window,

I don't know if I assign the blame to the fumigation, simply because they then complain when the Pizza Lady docks 10% of their pay for their 25% failure rate. In my personal experience, this degree of entitlement is indicative of lazy sociopaths.

>The entrance exam doesn't indicate laziness either,

Certainly not, but the fact that he's taken it four times and failed to get into a school shows that he's not getting the grades he needs.

>Kevin is shown to be intelligent and hardworking throughout the whole movie

We assume. He bullshits the first session and it's never actually established whether he's doing a good job of tutoring.

You bring up a good point though, that the Kims are willing to put in the work to scam the Parks. If they'd put the same effort into folding pizza boxes or working at the cake shop they might not be in the position they are now.

>this along with his "without a plan, nothing can go wrong" philosophy reinforces the father as the only family member truly acclimated to this existence, one of his many similarities to the husband under the stairs

>(the most explicit symbol being the rainstorm, a peaceful and relaxing event the Parks can enjoy from their living room while the Kims' house is flooded and all their belongings destroyed)

Good takes. I will say I was annoyed that in a movie where smell is an important topic, they're submerged in sewage but nobody notices the next day. I was expecting a scene where Mrs. Park sniffs one of them and then agrees with her husband about the poverty stink. You could even show the other party guests sniffing for some real class commentary.

>>14788338
A lot of south Korean movies are like parasite. They all have similar themes and styles, they are all pretty good. Why did parasite suddenly gain traction when these other films have been great for years?

>>14794689
>Did the part at the end where a character is literally beaten over the head with a rock he called "metaphorical" not serve as any indication to you that the obvious bits may have been used deliberately, and may be masking deeper, more subtle points?
It think he was just poking fun at his own lack of subtlety. Doesn’t make it any less annoying. This is guy who made Snow piercer, after all. Interpretations vary widely for any movie that comes out (even the conversation around most blockbusters can get pretty heated), so that shouldn’t surprise you.

>>14793864
the poor family get real job that doesn't result in them swindling a rich family and killing people. then the movie would thankfully be over very quickly

>>14792459
capitalism doesn't have such a stronghold over people's will. every crime perpetrated by the Kim clan is out of their own doing not because they were "forced into it" or were "out of options".

>>14794751
I agree. The Kim's had a generous opening with the teaching job. They subsisted meagerly prior to the job, which means the teaching was a nice added bonus. It was also a foot into the door with a higher class family. They got greedy and took advantage of a situation, continually lying. They then tortured an old woman with allergies and eventually killed her. Totally unnecessary and vile. The critique is of the system, but it's so obvious who the piece of shit parasites are.

Oh they also let the pizza boxes get poisoned. The dad was a useless hunk of shit, terrible parent.

>>14794725
>I was expecting a scene where Mrs. Park sniffs one of them and then agrees with her husband about the poverty stink.
Not that poster but that literally happens when he drives her out for groceries. She gags and has to lean out the window for air. Where you out to lunch for half of this film or something?

>>14788338
>The foremost country with respect to cinema and music
https://youtu.be/y1CniE43vNg

>>14794729
>great

>>14794751
I just thought about this. They were literally degenerates with a shitty job because they were lazy. The opening scene was them trying to find the wifi.

>>14794771
how does it critique the system though? the actions of the characters (from both families) or how the narrative plays out has very little to actually say about capitalism

>>14794771
>Oh they also let the pizza boxes get poisoned.
no ethical consumption under capitalism lmao, workers get paid shit wages in fumigated basements that contaminate the product. The dad was a bit of an idiot, though, which I think helps to explain why he acts so impulsively at the end. His entire narrative "arc" can be summarised as an illustrious accumulation of smells that eventually becomes intolerable.

>>14788565
It's actually really based, but you're too much of a brainlet to understand it.

>>14794725
>shows that he's not getting the grades he needs.
But that's not how schools work, there's a limited number of admitted students each year and the top performers are always chosen. It's possible to be more than qualified and still be turned away since you didn't make it into the absolute top percentile, an increasingly likely outcome the more desperately competitive the field gets
>He bullshits the first session and it's never actually established whether he's doing a good job of tutoring.
Oh for sure, I meant that just through his planning and execution of the scheme he's clearly smart and capable, albeit less so than his sister (from what we see). He essentially hatches the start of the plan on the fly as he learns that there's another position open
>I don't know if I assign the blame to the fumigation,
Maybe I'm misremembering but isn't it implied that the low numbers and sloppy construction on some of the boxes was the dad's fault? That seems to tie back in with this image of the father dragging his family down with him through his acclimation to impoverished life. To present the entire family as the most significant cause of their own suffering seems to run pretty contrary to the rest of the movie's themes and kind of renders the whole thing repetitive from the get-go, so I personally doubt that was the intent
>I will say I was annoyed that in a movie where smell is an important topic, they're submerged in sewage but nobody notices the next day
Tell me if you think I'm wrong but that kind of checked out to me, even just on a purely realistic level. They were mostly submerged in rain water and with a bit of sewage at the end, and certainly got rained on and rinsed pretty hard during the journey to the emergency shelter, where there are supplies like dry clothes and water
>I was expecting a scene where Mrs. Park sniffs one of them and then agrees with her husband about the poverty stink
This already happens in the scene where he drives her, and it's very important that she doesn't actually comment on it, just looks uncomfortable and asks for the window to be rolled down
The movie is careful to never once show evidence of direct distaste for the lower class in the Park family. The Parks are too polite and "cultured" to harbor conscious biases like that. Instead, again and again they show disgust towards things that individually are reasonable to dislike, but as a whole are clearly all associated with the poor. The smell of the subway, drug use, promiscuity, uncleanliness, overly familiar or colloquial interactions, etc. This is part of how the movie shows that these biases and pressures that help contribute to class segregation are not matters of individual morality, they're products of the environment in which one lives. I imagine that the Parks might even be embarrassed or offended if their guests began commenting on the Kims' smell to their faces, it's too explicitly meanspirited

>>14794856
It's kind of a transparent critique in the way it highlights in plain sight the disparity and inequality between the two families, regardless of how terrible you think the poor family might be. I don't think it needs to comment on it further than the basic structural motif of the rich house on high and the poor house barely even reaching the surface. It's a work of art– you should let the image speak for itself, the simplicity of its premise doesn't need to be explained.

>>14794895
yes, different people have different amounts of money. why is that inherently a bad thing?

>>14794867

>But that's not how schools work...

My understanding is that around 70% of South Korean students attend university, which means he's likely in the bottom third of test scores. I'm not South Korean though so maybe I'm missing something here.

>Maybe I'm misremembering but isn't it implied that the low numbers and sloppy construction on some of the boxes was the dad's fault?

I don't recall but that would certainly check out. (25% being bad) Maybe he's dragging the rest of them down with him.

>They were mostly submerged in rain water and with a bit of sewage at the end.

I mean, they were up to their necks in the sewer water. You're right about the smell scene in the car though, so I guess that all works out. Maybe she was just picking up on the sewage, if she hadn't ridden with him before.

>>14794908
>different people have different amounts of money
And suffer disproportionately as a result
>why is that inherently a bad thing?
It's not, inherently speaking. That's a matter of opinion. The movie provides no prescriptive message, it offers no alternatives to the brutality on display and that was never the point. It doesn't even try to indicate which characters you should or shouldn't relate to or side with. It's an artistic portrayal of certain class dynamics. You, the lucky viewer, get to reconcile the portrait it paints with your own personal beliefs and perhaps deepen your beliefs through the lens of this new model, regardless of the direction that deepening takes

>>14794943
I think the movie failed then if that's what it tried to do. I saw no aesthetic beauty in it, and it felt very cheap and stunted in terms of its philosophy/transcendence.

>>14794856

I'm a dumb lazy nigger. I just said that because the director intended that and it's what everyone says. I don't think it critiques capitalism, it just points a finger at it.

>>14794867
Oh, and I think they mentioned that a sewer line had gone/overflowed too as they were running back to the apartment. It wasn't just the toilet backing up, I think there was sewage everywhere.

lol

>>14795036
yeah, but u could say the family put themselves in that situation and then they got blessed with an opportunity and were greedy. Why did the mother and father have to work there?

>>14794977
That's your conclusion to reach, and I'll respect it. But personally I saw it as deeply beautiful on multiple levels and while there's certainly nothing new about this systemic analysis of capitalism and/or inequality, I think the final portrait it paints is a nuances and important one to popularize in the West (the full attribution of inequality to the immorality of the privileged class needs to be changed, not because we need to defend those poor rich people but because the "bad rich people cause inequality" ---> "moral rich people like me must be off the hook then" move of self-deception is a dangerous one that basically defines the modern liberal entertainment class, who ironically seem to have given Parasite Best Picture to performatively dodge ongoing accusations of bigotry/eurocentrism)

>>14795036
it is not increasingly the case. it has always been the case niggers. precapitalism was not your utopia. and i can call them parasites because they are.
i also don't get the feeling that this gook understands people, the characters do not act in a way that suggests he does.

>>14794977
>I saw no aesthetic beauty in it, and it felt very cheap and stunted in terms of its philosophy/transcendence.
Such is the Korean way.

>>14794943
>And suffer disproportionately as a result
except the rich family ends up suffering more than the poor family do in the end of the film. and the poor family's initial dire circumstances stems from the Kim clan's unwillingness to find work that will support them.

>you take away your own message
this is a cop out when you're either not willing to put forth your understanding of the film, realise that you couldnt find any meaning in the film or maybe that the film has nothing of value to say in the first place

>>14795055
>immorality of the privileged class
but the apparently "privileged" park family are not shown to be immoral in the film. and you seem content on not explaining why the existence of a (relatively) privileged class inside capitalism's structure is an inherently "immoral" thing

>>14795078
Your attitude is vile and you don't belong here

>>14788338
Honestly preferred Snowpiercer.

>>14795264
Snowpiercer is shit.
Mother is the best Bong Joon-Ho

>>14795078
>gook doesn't understand humans
Imagine my surprise

>>14795219
Damn you should work on your reading comprehension

Bad movie

for me it's kang mina

>>14795237
Yeah maybe you should downvote him, GB2 you faggot

>>14795297
inequality is caused because different people earning different amounts of money. how is this inherently a bad thing?
also
>moral rich people like me must be off the hook
off the hook from what?

>>14795353
Dude just follow the thread of replies, it's all in there. I can't keep wasting time clarifying myself to people who aren't making the effort to read the points I'm making, but I can assure you that you think you disagree with me because you've misread me, not because we're actually at odds

>>14795395
I'm pretty sure I've read all of your posts. just link to the posts where you have spelt out the powerful and persuasive critique of capitalism the film has made. as well as how basic inequality based on how much people earn is inherently a bad thing

>>14795281
Never seen it but my favourite so far is Memories of Murder.

Poor people are disgusting but having been on both sides of the divide neither rich nor poor is particularly palatable to me. Rich people are all flash, no substance, refusing to say anything directly and turning everything, including someone asking for directions to the bathroom, as a power game.
Poor people make bad choices because they realize they're 10 ways fucked from sunday so they might as well do heroin and enjoy their weekend.

>>14795429
See the problem is that those are posts you're assuming I would have made based on your poor reading comprehension and incorrect inferences about my beliefs. Those are not posts I would ever write. Why look, in this post >>14794943 I explicitly avoid declaring it to be an objectively bad thing. That post is also where I explain that the movie offers no prescriptive message or possible alternative to the system it allegorically portrays, making it more of an artistic representation/narrative than a functional critique in my eyes

Many here, especially those from countries poorer than Korea or japanophiles will baulk at Korea maturing culturally. It's easy to believe in the narrative that everything is manufactured in Korea and depict it as a late capitalistic nightmare. Truth is Japan underwent a very similar process. Japanese manufacturing thrived because of protectionist and crony policies and much of modern Japanese cultural achievements borrowed heavily, to the point of homage, works of Britain then the United States. 4chan is really moribund.