/lit/ - Literature

Just to compare, here is a book I have actually read on the same topic, and this author gives a much more charitable account of why people hold different political views without shitting on any of them.

>>14787885
I didn’t read, but from what you say it sounds like it does since the principle can and does work both ways. Especially since revolution and reaction are favorite terms for liberals as well. As an explanation of a particular motivational aspect I don’t disagree though, but as a primary and fundemental cause I have my doubts.

However, I cannot make a definitive statement and am only responding to your overview of an overview.

>>14787885
>the author concludes that people are right wing because they want to retain social hierarchies that they are not at the bottom of.

I want to point out that similarly unking remarks have been made about leftist psychology...

>Leftists tend to hate anything that has an image of being strong, good and successful. They hate America, they hate Western civilization, they hate white males, they hate rationality. The reasons that leftists give for hating the West, etc. clearly do not correspond with their real motives. They SAY they hate the West because it is warlike, imperialistic, sexist, ethnocentric and so forth, but where these same faults appear in socialist countries or in primitive cultures, the leftist finds excuses for them, or at best he GRUDGINGLY admits that they exist; whereas he ENTHUSIASTICALLY points out (and often greatly exaggerates) these faults where they appear in Western civilization. Thus it is clear that these faults are not the leftist's real motive for hating America and the West. He hates America and the West because they are strong and successful.

>Words like "self-confidence," "self-reliance," "initiative," "enterprise," "optimism," etc., play little role in the liberal and leftist vocabulary. The leftist is anti-individualistic, pro-collectivist. He wants society to solve every one's problems for them, satisfy everyone's needs for them, take care of them. He is not the sort of person who has an inner sense of confidence in his ability to solve his own problems and satisfy his own needs. The leftist is antagonistic to the concept of competition because, deep inside, he feels like a loser.

>>14787990
>because they want to retain social hierarchies that they are not at the bottom of.
but a lot of right wing people are poor / working class

>>14787990
>They hate America
Based.

Here I’ll save you the effort: right wing people come in two flavors: rich dickheads and racist retards. The rich dickheads use the racist retards to enforce the status quo and keep them rich despite only being rich by “living in a society” with other people.

>>14787916
There are no good right wingers unless of course we’re talking about the dead ones

>>14787990
Shut the fuck up, Ted.

>>14788005
I assume the author is American so "conservatism" applies primarily to economics in his case unlike in Europe where it applies solely on societal issues.

>>14788017

>>14788024
The only right wing value that the European right has is “fuck immigrants”. There’s nothing socially conservative about any of the right wing parties in Europe. They’re just racist (like the American ones). You can’t tell me Marine Le Pen is more right wing than some southern US evangelical senator who supports Israel solely because he thinks it will bring about the apocalypse from Revelations.

>Here I’ll save you the effort: right wing people come in two flavors: rich dickheads and racist retards. The rich dickheads use the racist retards to enforce the status quo and keep them rich despite only being rich by “living in a society” with other people.

>>14787885
The left is based on resentment. The right is based on fear.

>>14788046
Seething, right wingers are barely functional retards. I piss on right wingers when I’m not beating their fucking faces in

>>14787885
>people are right wing because they want to retain social hierarchies that they are not at the bottom of
Conservatives transparently hold such beliefs, it is just usually justified by some vague appeal to nature.

>>14787885
That kind of argument cuts both ways, and it's much less favourable when used against progressives, since conservatives are in favour of preserving natural social hierarchies, progressives instead favour destroying them in order to create their own artifical ones. Progressives form a coalition of the fringes (Racial minorities, LGBT and ideological wackos) that will stay loyal to the party, because they know that they owe their status to it.

>>14788045
>brainlet enters the thread

>>14788011
Except for every rich republican there are ten more progressive ones with a lot more money.

>>14788056
This unironically.

>>14788084
Cool meme post, retarded fuck

>>14788059
We got a badass over here guys

>>14788080
>natural social hierarchies
No such thing

>>14788147
Cringe dualist, everything humans do is natural.

>>14788147
Hierarchy is infinite, equality is a spook

This book explains the agenda...

>>14787916
pic related

>Seething, right wingers are barely functional retards. I piss on right wingers when I’m not beating their fucking faces in

I suppose anyone can pathologize their opponents. Seems like it's a step you take when you're to justify their liquidation.

>>14788215
This

>>14788152
So then there are no artificial social orders, and leftists are only doing what is natural

>>14788147
Oh sorry muh "justified' hierarchy

>>14788268
Yes, but some natural systems have more adaptational value then others. Now you're beginning to see the light, my friend...

>>14788056
No. Read some books. Start with this one >>14787916

>>14788268
Depends what we are defining natural as. It is natural to be concerned about your status and your power, and if you want any of that it pays to be a leftist.

>>14788005
>>14788024
That's one of the main problems with the book. The author calls anything right of centre "conservative", yet all of his arguments are against far right ideology. Bait and switch.

>>14788289
The light shining out your ass, maybe

>>14788688
*farts in your face*

>>14788011
Left wing people come in two flavours: rich twats and useful idiots. Rich twats use the useful idiots to vote them into positions of power by pretending the socialist utopia is possible.

>OY VEY WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE BRAINS OF THESE GOYIM AND THEIR AUTHORITARIAN PERSONALITIES LOCK EM UP IN THE LOONY BIN GIVE THEIR KIDS STERILIZING HORMONES AND CASTRATE 'EM ALL

If you are anything but upper middle class than being right wing is pure cuckery. (Ultra rich fags political leanings dont matter they just lean left for positive outlook)

>>14788056
>>14787885
coming from a reactionary, both of these are mostly correct. all of our racism is just attempting to preserve an aristocratic (race) principle in a liberal-democratic world, take us back a couple hundred years and we would be trying to preserve the actual legal aristocracy. seeing this as inherently evil or problematic is just the result of normative liberalism

>>14788221
this doesn't mean anything

>>14788781
cringe

>>14788834
It does, if you read Haidt's book.

>>14788268
it can all be called artificial, but the reason for it are natural, so it's a pointless distinction. there are lots of adaptive strategies and some are more successful than others, that's all.

>>14788221
I despise all 3 of these options

>>14788045
>yea bro i dont like these guys they're just racist n shit
you are entirely seethrough

>>14788917
if you're looking for socialism or something then understand it is probably categorized under libertarianism
>>14788215

>>14788045
mass immigration and its impact isn't a social issue? it's the most socially shifting thing in hundreds of years and pertinent to everything from culture, language, democracy, and consumerism.

>>14788147
sure, no one ever mogs anyone else in social interactions and there are definitely no dominant or submissive variance to personalities. sure thing, bud.
>>14788215
based

>>14788929
i don't know why the second post was quoted here, ignore it.

>>14788056
completely unironically true.

Right wing thinking is heavily based on fear, revulsion, and insecurity. Right wingers are always afraid of the future, and the unknown in general. It's good to have a healthy level of fear, but the right wing mindset is heavily imbalanced

I'm a Muslim, really what I want is paradise,but politically I would like to see interest and speculation outlawed, taxes abolished except on capital, dating outlawed, modesty enforced, adultery and homosexuality punished, and legalization of buying concubines. Where does that put me?

>>14787916
>>14788221
It's a good book.

>>14788978
Don't worry Muhammed your firmly in the baste caste

>>14788056
Based. Politics in summed up.

What has right-wing ever had to do with Conservatism? Imo the biggest thing that sets apart conservatism from any materialist or idealist spew is that it’s fundamentally unideological. It doesn’t want to spread whatever it believes in and considers valuable beyond the borders of its identity. A conservative nationalist says: ‘just let me do my own fuckin thing here and let my children do it too!’ God a fuckin liberal could be conservative, if he could just let go of wanting turn everyone else into a liberal.

>>14788815
Conservativism isn't just about money. There's a whole social aspect of politics that has more to do with how we should behave than who should get what.

>>14788970
no "insecurity" about it.
and they will outcompete you faggots long term, every time because they don't love everything foreign.

>>14788834
The image alone doesn't capture the theory at all, but the theory is indeed very good.

>>14788998
Islam prohibits castes though

>>14788970
Actually it's the left who fear work and instability. They want the nanny socialist state to provide everything for them.

>>14789019
Because most conservatives vote for... conservative politicians, who enforce... conservative social policies. Pretty obvious.

>>14789026
>>14789037

From my experience right wingers I've known have been the most uptight, squeamish, and hysterical people I've ever known. It's definitely the result of a mental imbalance, they literally believe that Satan worshiping trannies are trying to turn the youth gay, or that there's a grand Jewish scheme to mindfuck people into race mixing

>>14787885
Academics claim that reactionaries are trying to maintain hierarchies that benefit them while at the same time claiming every radical right winger is a basement dwelling incel. They really see no contradiction here.

>>14789070
>>From my experience right wingers I've known have been the most uptight, squeamish, and hysterical people I've ever known
Confirmation bias etc.
There's no way you can classify billions of people this way. These conversations are fucking useless.

>>14788059
Wow dude you seeth and beat people up? I bet you fuck a lot of chicks dude.

>>14788045
Well if you don't understand right wing ideology then it must not exist.

>>14789089

It's a generalization but it tends to be true. Rightys have a tendancy to think that everything is a power struggle, that everyone is out to get them. You can see this mindset manifest in different ways, not all are political, think of a schizo who's paranoid of demonic influences all around him. The left tends to be more proactive and empathetic, instead of fighting against the other, we try to figure out how to solve problems together and work with reality.

>From my experience right wingers I've known have been the most uptight, squeamish, and hysterical people I've ever known. It's definitely the result of a mental imbalance, they literally believe that Satan worshiping trannies are trying to turn the youth gay, or that there's a grand Jewish scheme to mindfuck people into race mixing

>>14789147

Nice rage comic rebuttable

>Liberal/pseudoleftist: How do I stop people from converting to this ideology I don't like? Hmm, let me just write 500,000 more books about how he only believes in the things he believes in because he's retarded, petulant, a loser who can't get laid, unpopular, insane, lame, not cool, and secretly gay.

Yeah, worked so well for you for the past 80 years. Totally stopped the resurgence of right wing thought. Especially that part where right wing thought started to have a resurgence and you spent another several decades doubling down on calling them fag loser retards who can't get a date, and the right wing exploded in popularity and became politically mainstream again.

You know, in the one or two decades of inertia you have left with your ideological monopoly over ivory tower social science, you should TRIPLE down. Now that your position is fatally compromised, and people care less and less with each passing day about yet another monograph from you about how everybody who disagrees with you is just a lame chump who can't get laid, while society is crumbling from the effects of your laissez faire orgyporgy social engineering, you should keep shouting it. Shout it even louder! It's working! Everybody who disagrees with you is just UNPOPULAR! Soon, neoliberal orgyporgy is gonna fix eeeverything!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfkIBVb4r_w

>>14789147
>they literally believe that Satan worshiping trannies are trying to turn the youth gay
Silly right-wingers and their conspiracy theories.
>5% of the youth were non-hetero, now it's 15%.
shhh

>>14787885
All you need to know is in pic related.

right is right

>>14789210
Yeah bro, Frankfurt school communism...

American politics were a mistake.

>>14789206

>being afraid of turning gay

You're already gay anon

>>14789070
The two conservative guys in my overall millenial friend group are the only ones who own houses. Anecdotes aint shit brah

>>14789070
That's all true though.

>Nice rage comic rebuttable

>>14789070
>Satan worshiping trannies are trying to turn the youth gay, or that there's a grand Jewish scheme to mindfuck people into race mixing
where's the lie?

>>14787885
>So it's more of an argument against conservatism as a whole.
All people want to retain hierarchies they are not at the bottom of. People cannot organize or live without hierarchies properly and the only question is what kind of hierarchies there ought to be. The liberal social hierarchy is kind of an inversion of reality where one gains status by pretending to oppose hierarchy in principle and loses status by identifying and affirming ones status in a hierarchy. The conservative way is more honest in this respect.

>>14787885
It's simple. Leftists are faggots and conservatives are retards

>>14789508

Humanity is moving away from antiquated hierarchical existence, and towards cooperation. Rightoids are little girls who fear progress, and the idea that white people aren't the center of reality

>>14789304

>my conservative friends are well of financially

How does that prove any point whatsoever?

>>14789525
>believes that progress is an objective, definable concept
You're nothing but a fool who believes that his ideology is just as much part of the fabric of reality as the laws of physics. Grow the capacity for introspection before you say anything else.

>>14789536

>believes that progress is an objective, definable concept

>>14789501
It's a lie when someone is trying to galvanize people into taking serious action against it, in every other case it is happening (and that's a good thing!!!)

This became clear to me (at least in the tranny example) when I read that someone apparently cannot be "converted" to trannyism, but that tranny propaganda will help "awakwen" people to their inherent trannydom. How the processes of conversion and awakening are cleanly distinct is beyond me, but the obvious object of this scheme is to quell conspiratorial fears of conversion while at the same time running something if not identical then very close to a conversion project.

>>14789525
No it's not, living enslaved to your desires, which is what secularism promotes, does not lead to cooperation.>>14789530

>>14789540
That meme is funny because I live in an urban center with a lot of trannies, and many of them really are hyper masculine in their physique. Tall, broad shouldered, muscular, chiseled jaw line...It’s really quite strange.

>>14789540
>still can't define it
It's alright, progress is whatever makes you more comfortable. You and your body is the center of the universe.

>>14789544
>No it's not, living enslaved to your desires

Leftists are more concerned with real moral issues, instead of muh gays. Discipline is not inherently right wing, a part of existence is learning to cooperate with natural law, which is why we tend to advocate against cruelty, war, and abuse of other humans and even animals because of the destruction it causes. Right wingers are always concerned with the wrong issues, they're fanatical over nonsensical things such as masturbation

>>14789570
No, leftists tend to follow a utilitarian worldview in which the object of life is to experience pleasure. This doesn't lead anywhere good.

>>14789536
>>14789540
the progress of the anglo-judeo ruling class is something akin to building Babel or exalting human pride by asserting the ultimate malleability of the world to their intellect and designs

the progress of the modern leftist is something like killing the concept of form and destroying heterogeneity in order to embrace and indulge in, without shame, the lowest common denominator: the human body

>>14789591

No, the objective of life is our relationship with other people, and ultimately love. You're confusing leftists with libertarians

>>14787885
>Someone redpill me on this?
Sure, here's your industrial-grade redpill for all the "conservatives are just dumb/afraid/crazy" nonsense that academics like Mr. Robin shit out every year:
https://radishmag.wordpress.com/2014/02/02/crazy-talk/

>>14789593

>the lowest common denominator: the human body

This is what I meant when I said that right wingers are mentally sick.

>>14789608
>Radish Mag
Always good to meet a fellow man of culture.

>>14789570
>against cruelty, war, and abuse of other humans
Why are these bad. Why isn't the the destruction good when levied against the right targets? Why is it that your body and it's comforts should be the center of the universe? Why shouldn't we strive for something more?

>>14787885
>the reactionary mind
no reactionaries in this book, Corey Robin is basically just a sentimental liberal

I fucking love these meme books.
>What's a Cathar?
>Haha well my friend you need to read [insert Catholic polemic against heretics]
>What's Fascism?
>Read [this book by a communist ideologue, Gramsci, whatever]
>What's Liberalism?
>Read Ben Shapiro's-..
No one is honest. No one is just 'seeking truth', or objectively stating reality in the realm of ideology. It's a nightmarish nihilistic Nietzsche world that operates on lie after lie. Everything is a game of oneupmanship and slander. I just wish whatever is prolonging this passive aggressive feminine nonsense crashes down soon enough.

>>14789653

Your opinion would be different if you've ever been the subject of cruelty and abuse. Leftists realize that this power game is unnecessary and we want to liberate mankind from oppression.

>Why shouldn't we strive for something more?

I'm assuming your ultimate goal is self centered vanity at the expense of everyone else

>>14787990

There's nothing wrong with hierarchies so long as all levels are kept in check.

You would want your father to take criticism from the child without his ego causing him to silence everyone. Truth matters.

>>14789617
call it "the flesh" if that is more palatable for you, but I won't retract any of my words

>>14789788

The "flesh" is bad when it wants everything, and gives nothing. It's bad when it uses other people and their bodies for it's own gain. Obsessing over how people express themselves, or their sexuality is focusing on a non issue when we have people treating other humans as lesser than animals

>>14789593
not really, in the current year gays or transgenders are viewed more as Generalized Black People than crazed libertines. it's not really even ABOUT enjoying degenerate sex, but about taking on a political identity.

>>14787885
>It's marketed as a somewhat "neutral" account of the psychology of conservatives, but reading some of the summaries, the author concludes that people are right wing because they want to retain social hierarchies that they are not at the bottom of.
This is pretty much it, though.
>So it's more of an argument against conservatism as a whole.
That's if you disagree with it.

>>14787885
>why people are conservative and why people vote for right-wing parties.
Don't want to let the guvt turn the kids into pooftas
Simple as

>>14789846
Based

psychologizing peoples' political allegiances always has an agenda, no matter what they say

>>14789714
>I just wish whatever is prolonging this passive aggressive feminine nonsense crashes down soon enough.
Accelerate.

>>14789825
>Obsessing over how people express themselves, or their sexuality is focusing on a non issue when we have people treating other humans as lesser than animals
Not him, and not a nazi but you made it our business when you wouldn't let us "opt out" of the whole new sexuality program. If I have to call your fucked up friends by their imaginary gender pronouns or else face ostracism and poverty, then we have an issue. I would like nothing better than to pretend these people don't exist, but I can't, because you idiots shove this shit into my face.

>>14789634
based. Radish is good stuff.

>>14789886

>or else face ostracism and poverty, then we have an issue

Has this actually happened to you, or did you watch it in a Paul Joseph Watson video? On the flip side, how many blacks have been lynched for their race? How many "non whites" have been discriminated against and ghettoized by the WASP elites? There are real problems, and then there's "wah I can't call people slurs without repercussions!!"

>>14787885
>the author concludes that people are right wing because they want to retain social hierarchies that they are not at the bottom of

so the party divide is really over losers vs winners?

>>14789933
>On the flip side, how many blacks have been lynched for their race?
Unironically not that many, there are probably nearly as many killings of whites by blacks per year
>How many "non whites" have been discriminated against and ghettoized by the WASP elites?
Not enough to deter them from moving to the US and receiving affirmative action and welfare payments

>>14789933
>how many blacks have been lynched for their race? How many "non whites"
In the last 50 years? I doubt very many at all. Even during the height of "Jim Crow", the number of blacks being lynched was still eclipsed by the number of whites who were killed extrajudicially.

Its interesting the difference we are told between a "horrible lynching" and "old West justice". The skin color of the person who was being killed is used to determine how we are supposed to react to the event.

>How many "non whites" have been discriminated against and ghettoized by the WASP elites?
Not very many at all.

>>14789926
>The virgin left-liberal/right-conservative politician
>The chad High Tory counter-enlightenment reactionary

Its interesting to ponder that a significant number of black lynching victims were indeed guilty of their crimes. In that case, how are their deaths any different than the thousands of white "criminals" who were put to death in the centuries before the modern era? Every American town founded before the 20th century had a "hanging tree", a Sheriff's posse and the like.

But only the death of the Negro requires the modern American to undergo a ritual act of guilt and solemnity.

>>14790018

Maybe if you consider "miscegenation" crime, or being the victim of some random hysteria based on your racial makeup. White people have been brutal towards outsiders, I'm not saying the reverse has never happened, but it's often believed in the alt right that whites dindu nuffin

>>14790015

This Catholic priest was murdered because he wed an Anglo girl to a Puerto Rican immigrant, there are many similar cases in American history of white hysteria

>>14789729
>Your opinion would be different if you've ever been the subject of cruelty and abuse. Leftists realize that this power game is unnecessary and we want to liberate mankind from oppression.
You see what I mean. The pain these people feel is great enough that they are incapable of seeing beyond their own body. It and the comforts it receives become the only metric of good and bad they can conceive of, and since they can understand nothing else, they it becomes as natural to them as any any law physics. Their inability to meaningfully (I can identify their suffering and do not deny it, but I am net immediately force to think that its alleviation is good.) is precisely why they are undeserving of the right to have rights at all. Our humanity means very little. The created identities which have been developed are enhancements to life in the same that technologies are, only they point us towards the actualization of something beyond our body. Movement towards new possibilities of life created by these identities is true progress. The left wants us to be nothing more than our cave dwelling ancestors aided by glowing screens.
>I'm assuming your ultimate goal is self centered vanity at the expense of everyone else
My goal is to see all agency and autonomy disappear. I want to fundamentally change humanity so that the conception of the self or the ability to conceptualize self-interest completely disappear.

>>14790078
the alt right doesn't exist.
Blacks are feral creatures, let's not kid ourselves, libshit.

>>14790018
fucking based

>>14789933
I've honestly never spent much time watching right wing youtube people, or anyone on youtube for that matter. I think I saw one of his videos where he complained about feminists, but that's it. Have I ever been unlucky enough to work with a "trans" individual? No, but it could easily happen since I live in a big city on the West Coast. I don't think lynching is really a thing anymore, unless you live in Haiti or Liberia where there is basically no public order or rule of law. I don't think you're really one to talk about "racial discrimination" since you probably spend a good deal of time seething about white people. For instance, you automatically assumed that I was white and American after reading my post. In my opinion this shows, or could show, that you more or less see us as an adversary race. Anyone who disagrees with you must be "one of those white dudes".

Also calling a man a man is not, by any definition of the word, a slur.

>>14788016
You mean dead right wingers who took with them the secrets of economic prosperity to the grave in Russia, 1918-91, as they got killed by morally superior left wingers. Pretty much, right

well gtfo of here

>>14790093

This whole post is a schizophrenic mess, I'm sorry

>>14790078
>White people have been brutal towards outsiders, I'm not saying the reverse has never happened
It happened just as frequently.

Emmett Till was a rapist who deserved to die

especially in light of #MeToo and #BelieveWomen

>>14790119
>literally can't comprehend politics outside of his immediate material interests
People like you aren't fully human, friend. Life has so many possibilities, and you want to do nothing but waste it lavishing comforts onto bodies. You're a waste of everything it takes to sustain you.

>>14790113
>For instance, you automatically assumed that I was white and American after reading my post. In my opinion this shows, or could show, that you more or less see us as an adversary race.
Can confirm this. I'm not white, but when I post certain data sets online people just assume I am.

>>14790113

4chan is 99% "white", and I don't see white people as a homogeneous race so I don't know why they would be "my adversary". White nationalists on the other hand are a subgroup of incel subhumans

>>14790136

No you learn to type sentences coherently, also hating the human body arbitrarily is not deep or spiritual on any level

why are blacks so different from all other populations? in all genetic studies they cluster far apart from the rest of the human race.

>>14790147
>White nationalists on the other hand are a subgroup of incel subhumans
Do you feel the same way about black racists like Louis Farakhan, Al Sharpton, or Jesse Jackson?

>>14790161

I don't think all nonwhites are saints, but there's a difference to a group of people who've been systemically oppressed lashing out in anger, and internet saviors of the huwhite race pepe fanclub. If you're in a privileged class, you're obligated to behave better

>>14790151
I’m not a spiritualist, and I don’t hate the human body. All I do is recognize the limitations inherent to identifying with it over historically developed identities. Those limitations are so severe that to really identify as “human” is in and of itself a a violent nihilism.

the RWA scale and its predecessor, the F-scale, are an idea as old as Adorno.

authoritarianism is a preference that is expressed in a right-wing way in America due to its capitalist and racially hierarchial origins. in Communist Russia, for instance, the preference for authoritarianism was expressed in a left-wing way. it's a psychological aversion to change and promotion of existing power structures which has its basis in evolutionary adaptive response. correlates negatively with traits like openness. not morally good or bad... just different, but a valuable antithesis to anti-authoritarian liberal thought

>>14790173
>respectability politics for me but not for thee
And you wonder why people resist your Efforts. It’s not so much about protecting hierarchies as it is that your accommodation requires so much restriction that it can’t be seen as worthwhile. Some abstract concept of justice isn’t worth becoming a bootlicker. He people sympathetic to the police just want safer communities. You demand greater restrictions, and offer nothing in return. Why would anyone want that.

>>14790173
>but there's a difference to a group of people who've been systemically oppressed lashing out in anger
>If you're in a privileged class, you're obligated to behave better
Literally the /pol/ argument for why White nationalism is better than Jewish nationalism. The moment you try to apply your double standard you sound just like them.

>>14790078
>Maybe if you consider "miscegenation" crime
as you should, but no, the black propensity for rape and other violent crime was the same in those days as it is now

>>14790195
>>14790202

Jewish nationalism is wrong when it oppresses others, like with Palestine for example. "White"s are not oppressed, /pol/ is not indicative of the real world. These urges you have a deeply primal, and based on fear and a need to control women ultimately.

>>14790211
You keep harping on about oppression without even explaining why it should be the basis of social problems. The accommodation of “oppressed” groups requires social restrictions that will make the lives of whites noticeably worse, even if the number of oppression points in the world are reduced. For what reasons should they be at all sympathetic to you?

>>14790211

>Jewish nationalism is wrong when it oppresses others, like with Palestine for example

Let me fix that for you faggot

>nationalism is wrong

you didn't need the rest

>These urges you have a deeply primal, and based on fear and a need to control women ultimately.

>>14790222
>The accommodation of “poor” people requires social restrictions that will make the lives of rich people noticeably worse

This is exactly what I mean when I say that right wingers mind is based on fear, a fear of losing power.

>>14790211
>Pathologizing an opposing viewpoint.
Another common white-nationalist argument.
You are actually no different to them. You just picked the other team.

>>14790238

Yes, I'm not a centrist, and have chosen a side. Scary isn't it

>>14790211
I'm black, for what it's worth, and I think whites pretty much are oppressed in this country.

>a need to control women ultimately.
Why does it always come down to this with you leftists? Why don't you ever deconstruct the desire for women to control men and their production capacity via the divorce system? Why do you leftists never criticize female selfishness, narcissism and betrayal?
I believe right-wing sentiment ultimately stems from love and the desire for an orderly and safe society, not the oppression of women. In fact, men want the approval and admiration of women more than to control them? What's the point in controlling someone? You can't force them to love you.
Ultimately, you leftists have a very uncharitable interpretation of the motives of your adversaries because you're consumed with your belief of being correct.

>>14790228
Nationalism is natural and is a product of tribalism, which is a product of evolution and kin selection.
>>14790229
Exactly. I really despise these people so much.

>>14790229

>I don't want to see MY women fucking xyz outgroup male

This is /pol/ in a nutshell, the basis for their entire ideology. It's peak male egotism, and fear of those they deem as outside their group

>>14790247
Yet you act exactly like the one you claim to oppose. Why should anyone take your side seriously if you act like a bunch of fascists and justify your actions in the same way?

>>14790256

You are the biggest type of fag. Apologist for nationalism but a simp who defends dumb whores

Fuck yourself up the ass, you'll hang when the actual worker's revolution happens

>>14790232
You are an unthinking retard with nothing of substance to say. In this instance there's no comparison between class and race politics. Even the slightest accommodation of the racial requires extensive restrictions to the everyday lives of white individuals. There's a world of difference between your (totally unsubstantiated) claim about "fear of losing power" and not wanting to be the flagellant bootlickers eager for abuse that you want them to be. Why would anyone want to be held in a constant state of respectability politics (enforced by all social institutions) by a people who have managed, through hip hop, to bring to mainstream discourse that whites are fundamentally subhuman. How is that some sort of irrational fear of "losing power?"

>>14790250
Think there was a study that right wingers are better at mimicking the otherside believeably and leftists for some reason go really overboard with it. It makes sense when youre THAT self righteous I guess

>>14790258
How hard is it for you to wrap your head around the idea that there exist people who don't care about egalitarianism and universalism? /pol/acks don't oppose Israel because they're mean to the poor Palestinians, they do so because they view pro-Israel activists as promoting policies that they find harmful to them motivated in a strong sense of Jewish identity.

>>14790258

If it ever came down to it, it would be absolutely necessary to use violence in order to protect human beings.

>>14790257
What's wrong with this exactly? How is it any different from black women feeling betrayed when black men pursue white women over themselves? No one likes feeling insecure. Why must men be required to wear a suit of armor to shield themselves from being emotionally harmed to the end of time?
Why don't leftist criticize black female jealousy of interracial relationships? Why don't leftists criticize female jealousy, which is well known and rampant?
What is inherently wrong with mate-guarding? And if it is wrong, why is it only white males who are stigmatized for it? Black males do it against white males. White males do it against black males. Asian males do it against white males. White females do it against Asian females. Black females do it against white females. Yet, only white males are pathologized for something which appears to be a universal human characteristic.
You leftists just hate white males and want them to feel insecure.
The female desire to desexualize pop-culture as to not to feel threatened and to minimize damage to her self-esteem is no different than when white males do it. They're both manifestations of a desire not to be cuckolded, to have ones lover to be ones own.

>>14790266
Lol, how am I a simp?

>>14790284

>Why would anyone want to be held in a constant state of respectability politics (enforced by all social institutions)

Dude you have no self awareness of your own autism, your social ostracization is not enforced by shady social media Jew's. The majority of people don't find racial slurs or extremist right wing viewpoints about race tolerable, because most people have evolved past these antiquated ways of thinking and are empathetic towards others.

>>14790291
Leftists are in a religion. It's maddening talking to them. They have some of the worst tunnel-vision imaginable.

>>14790304

Women are not male property period

>>14790310
I hope you don't actually believe this. Racism is a part of the human condition.

>>14790304

You're not being cuckolded when a white women goes for a nonwhite male, get over yourself.

>>14790324
>eating shit is part of the human condition
>rape is part of the human condition
>slavery is part of the human condition
>pedophilia is part of the human condition
>murder is part of the human condition

Appeal to nature is a bad argument

>>14790320
Women treat men like property as well. Women have literally advocated divorce laws whereby they are able to strip men of the fruits of their labor and also not uphold their own end of the bargain, which is to bear him children and be loyal wife. Only one person is owned in a modern marriage contract, and it isn't the woman.
EVERYONE feels a desire to be loved. EVERYONE feels betrayed when the object of their desire abandons them. Stop making this a strictly male issue. It's a human issue.
Again, you leftists just hate white males and project all of humanity's baggage, all of its sins onto them. It's cruel, it's sick, and it's wrong.

>>14790310
>because most people have evolved past these antiquated ways of thinking and are empathetic towards others.
le leftist religious belief in 'progress'

>This is /pol/ in a nutshell, the basis for their entire ideology. It's peak male egotism, and fear of those they deem as outside their group

>>14790337

It's almost as if treating other people as private property has backfired.

>>14790332
I'm not even white. As stated before, I'm black.
Black women feel cuckolded when black men pursue white women. Why don't you leftists spend your time criticizing them and telling them that us black men aren't their possessions? It's because you're fundamentally motivated by a resentment for white males, so you assign to him evils which are merely universal throughout humanity, all the while creating a halo affect around "minorities".

My point is, we will never defeat racism without utilizing totalitarian means. Which funny enough, is exactly what the left is doing right now.

>>14790341
Progress is a myth. I blame Hegel. There is no grand synthesis.

>>14790347
Mate guarding is the nature of our species. It's a sign of love. While some of its excesses should be mitigated, it's wrong to demonize only white males for it.
Again, it comes from the human desire to be loved.

>>14790354

All minorities are not equal, or innocent. Women are the niggers of the world, which is based around a general culture of male dominance. I'm a radical feminist first and foremost, I believe abolishing male dominator culture which is the root of much of our problems

>>14790345
Why is fearing the out-group even wrong, according to leftists?

>>14790368
Loving the out group is even weirder behavior desu, being indifferent to it is one thing but thats how you can possibly be subverted

>>14790310
>Dude you have no self awareness of your own autism, your social ostracization is not enforced by shady social media Jew's
I'm no recluse at all and have no belief in Jewish conspiracies. It is precisely this why I am so aware of the restrictions necessitated by accommodation of the racial other; this accommodation requires the complete monitoring of my behavior but the active transformation of all social spaces I could possibly exist in in order to do so. I also understand that I get nothing from this but the opportunity to listen to new consumer music that will be disposed of within months and comic book movies treated as serious cultural milestones.
>The majority of people don't find racial slurs or extremist right wing viewpoints about race tolerable, because most people have evolved past these antiquated ways of thinking and are empathetic towards others.
The majority of people are trained flagellants who put themselves at risk of permanent impoverishment if they gesture in that direction. I do have a great deal empathy for these people. I can see that their is realy suffering derived from places beyond their control. Hell thinning about it at times even brings me to tears. But I understand that sympathizing with them does me nothing from harm. Mine is a thoughtful empathy. The empathy encouraged by the left (i.e., the an empathy that demands sympathy) is nothing more than feeling within agenda, and those who practice it are little more that trained seals quaking at waggling fishes.

>>14790250
>a need to control women ultimately.
>Why does it always come down to this with you leftists?
Because they can't defend any of their claims any other way. Psychologizing your opposition is the modern version of calling someone a witch. They are in league with some demonic/pathological force, therefore they cannot be trusted.
The left do this. The alt-right do it. Even 'classical-liberals' do it. The whole Peterson-Zizek debate was nothing but this.

>>14790365
Why don't leftists ever criticize female attraction to men to promote this dominator culture? I find it very odd how women profess to wish to abolish a male dominator culture, all the while being attracted to these same males. If I would a Freudian, I would say that their protestations against male dominator culture is actually a reflection of a subconscious desire for these same males, which fills them with a feelings of guilt and self doubt.

>>14790368
Because "humaness" is the one identity which exists outside of power relations and can be used as the objective basis of society without hierarchies or one that they see as Just.

>>14790256
>Nationalism is natural and is a product of tribalism
Tribalism is clearly natural, as animals do it in the form of pack behavior. Nationalism is quite a recent and abstract development of it, so it might be a bit of a stretch to call it natural.

>>14790368

We all share the same human nature, wants, and needs. It's more evident of how much we have in common in our current age. Most people deep down are loving and compassionate, and what we all ultimately want is a safer world

>>14790385
The word "human" is not a word which is devoid of content. By definition, it is exclusionary and sets up a hierarchy. How do we define humans? Ar non-humans inferior/superior by virtue of their non-humaness?

>>14790381

You're making a lot of baseless assumptions, which imply that you're probably a virgin

>>14790294
>How hard is it for you to wrap your head around the idea that there exist people who don't care about egalitarianism and universalism?
Quite easy, given that I don't care about those things either. The welfare of individual humans is more important than whether they are all equal or living by the same universal values.
>>14790296
>If it ever came down to it, it would be absolutely necessary to use violence in order to protect human beings.
Yet again, this is exactly what the alt-right will say about protecting people from you. You are morally equivalent and both deserve everything you're going to get at the hands of each other.

>>14790391
What if I want to preserve my black culture and our specific characteristics? What's wrong with loving my own? Who made you the god and able to determine that humanity should live in a bland, beige, mass of indistinct biology and cultural standardization? If leftists truly championed individualism, they wouldn't be so authoritarian as to try and mandate the direction of society and the secret desires others confess on the bedroom pillows.

>>14790304
>How is it any different from black women feeling betrayed when black men pursue white women over themselves?
Because reasons. Like every other leftist deconstruction.

>>14790407
All of the women I've been with wanted me to lead them. I'm tall, have broad shoulders, a broad chest, and am not a virgin. They want to feel "safe" around me. They love my dominance. I make them feel safe.

>>14790391
that's unironically a very Eurocentric idea

>>14790409
Animals don't have culture.

>>14790175
based, but don’t identify yourself as ‘not a spiritualist’. you are preaching a message many deem spiritual

>>14790409

On the flipside, who made you the supreme ruler of what other blacks want to do? What about mullattos? It's the same bullshit with white nationalists who try to gatekeep the huwhite race, specifically white women or even in some cases white passing mixed race women

>>14790413
This is why I can't take critical theory seriously. They selectively criticize and deconstruct. They also create artificial taboos and social stress where there previously were non. It's an infinite regress into nothing. Their end goal is to grind the mind, desires, beliefs, and insecurities of their enemies to dust so that they might dominate them.

>>14790415

Trust me, I'm not advocated against strength or masculinity. Women love men who are sexually attractive, that's a no brainer.

>>14790416
It's also a very modern idea. I'm pretty sure this obssession with love and compassion stem from Christianity and western romanticism. Ancient cultures didn't place nearly as must stress on these things. Neither do modern day Eastern cultures like Japan and China.

>>14790310
how about stop calling right wingers racist you fucking retard. right wing doesn’t mean what you think it means, read the history. plenty of left wing groups have historically been racist FYI

>>14790434
>Their end goal is to grind the mind, desires, beliefs, and insecurities of their enemies to dust so that they might dominate them.

Your entire refutation of critical theory is based on ignorance and fear of some xyz enemies, probably Jew's

>>14790310
>racial slurs or extremist right wing viewpoints
You're just picking the most extreme examples. IRL you can lose your job or be no-platformed for far more moderate behavior.

>leftoids unironically try to convince people that THEY are normal and all their opponents are pathological

>>14790362
people who self identify as leftists are atheists who don’t know what love is.

>>14790429
Blacks, like most tribal people, have a shared general will. We are a very tribal people and are very wary of outsiders "appropriating" our culture and such. I'm no supreme ruler, but I have a general understanding of how most blacks feel. We have no desire to be racially submerged in white America.
Mullatos actually have a dominant position in black culture, although they are generally recognized as black.

>>14790435
They also love who are dominant and participate in dominance culture. They might profess against this, but their actions say otherwise.

>>14790347
No, it always went both ways. Marriage only ever existed for the benefit of women, so they are not left holding the baby after a sexual encounter. If anything, it is the interests of women that initiates the idea of bonding people to each other like property.

>>14790447

The fact is that we live in a multiracial society, no fucking shit it's taboo to be a racist. You might have been raised to think it's normal by your hick family, but it's not in the real world. Just to set things straight, I also take issues with corporate fascism, but I have no sympathy for someone who gets fired for behaving like a retard

>>14790465
It's not taboo to be racist towards whites though. In fact its not evne supposed to be possible

>>14790465
>Just to set things straight, I also take issues with corporate fascism, except when it happens to people I don’t like
Thanks for clearing that up, never would’ve figured it out otherwise

>>14790365
>All minorities are not equal, or innocent.
This is why 9 times out of 10 those evil right wingers don't even have to attack you. You just eat each other given enough time.
>Women are the niggers of the world
I really hope you are black or have an n-word pass.

>>14790465
There would be no racism had we never mixed races, though. You could not accuse of a Swede of being a racist for upholding institutional racism 50 years ago because their society was a society without blacks. Now that they have blacks, racism has magically appeared in their society.
If leftists didn't have problems, they would have to manufacture them.

>>14790450

>my definition of love is the only real definition of love
>love is only love if it involves misanthropy towards the vast majority of the human race

Look, if I didn't know what love was I wouldn't advocate for a more peaceful world, and the protection of the vulnerable. The world is largely a shithole because of selfishness, and the religious idea that you need to be in a constant state of warfare against other people

>>14790472
The left literally manufactures minorities in order to continue to eternal march to progress. A progress which only seems to further divide and destroy society.

>>14790473

>mixed race people don't have the right to exist

This is why I'm not a rightoid, your conclusions always lead towards dehumanization and violence of people

>>14790381
>Why don't leftists ever criticize female attraction to men to promote this dominator culture?
Because they don't have any understanding of female desire.

>>14790478
You still haven't managed to justified why the identity of "human" should be held above any other, you dogmatic fuck.

>>14790478
>the unborn have a right to exist but only if they’re mixed-race
lol leftoids

>>14790385
>"humaness" is the one identity which exists outside of power relations
Not so, it is a power relation between the human and the non-human. Humans are treated as objects of moral concern, while the non-human or less human lifeforms are not.

>>14790484

Because humans are real, tangible, and can answer back, solipsism is wrong my friend

>>14790407
>Thinks women don't desire domination
>Calls other people virgin
There is a massive gaping hole in your understanding of humanity.

>>14790486

Where did I say that? Abortion had nothing to do with the discussion, and I don't think anyone who's pro abortion would make an exclusion towards mixed race

>>14790478
When did I argue they shouldn't exist? My argument was merely that racism is created by virtue of creating a multiracial society.

>>14790482
Or, maybe it's all about attacking males and people they deem as stronger than them?

>>14790497
if you think people have a “right to exist” before being conceived, let alone born, then you obviously must oppose abortion. at least that would be the case if you weren’t a white leftoid whose entire existence is summed up by this >>14790449 image

>>14790492
>Because humans are real, tangible, and can answer back, solipsism is wrong my friend
Again,but why does that make their existence inherently good or worth protecting for its own sake. Developed identities create capacity for human relation far more meaningful than our shared bodies. Why should humanness take priority?

>>14790409
>What if I want to preserve my black culture and our specific characteristics?
Everyone from classical liberals to conservatives to the radical left would be against you. This is how you know that they are no less racist than the far-right. They still believe in the white man's burden. They genuinely believe they know what is good for you better than you do.

>>14790509

You don't get to decide who's worth existing and who's not, it's ultimately up to the woman who conceives, her approval that this life should come into being. If the future is mixed race, it simply is, that isn't up to you or me.

>>14790524
>it's ultimately up to the woman who conceives
Why?

>>14790524
Why should women be given autonomy. Any group even remotely concerned with its survival should understand that wombs are too precious a resource to allow for it.

>>14790434
>It's an infinite regress into nothing.
For the current crop of left-wing "intellectuals", this is basically it. I wouldn't write off the whole exercise just because of them though. Most of them don't even know how to do critical theory or deconstruction for themselves.

>>14790439
The ancient Greeks did have the concept of Agape, but yes it is Christianity that really centralizes it.

>>14790449
Interesting that the moderates are higher across the board. Do you have any more data from this?

>>14790449
>Centrists prove once again they are BASED

Get dabbed both sides

>>14790532

We owe our own existence to women, it was always the choice of a woman ultimately, and simply for being women they deserve our respect. Why does anyone exist? I would personally say love, and the tragedy is that most of us miss the point completely while when we get here

>>14790465
>no fucking shit it's taboo to be a racist
You don't have to be racist to get fired. You can be fired for accidental "microagressions". In Europe the police are arresting people over opinions expressed on twitter.

>>14790457
>We have no desire to be racially submerged in white America.
A completely normal and healthy position by the standard of any period of history barring the last 100 years.

>>14790478
Don't try to bring mixed race people in as your shield. I am mixed race, and I deal with more threats of violence from people on your side. I'm literally safer with a bunch of Nazis than with you.

>>14790574

As long as you castrate yourself, and kiss ass, yeah they love having a token mixed race mutt as a pet

>>14790503
I'm sure that is a strong motivation, but I try to avoid psychologizing political positions.

>>14790524
What does this have to do with humanness being the most important identity?

>>14790552
Funny how the online big-brained-centrist brigade signal the opposite. Looks like the majority of actual centrists are pretty tribal.

>>14790582
No, that would be your side again. I've never been treated as anything but a token by white lefties.

>>14790608

Say what you want about leftists, but actual right wing nazi's wouldn't want to see you passing on your genes. Your existence is tolerated as long as you're sterile

>>14790622
Or in his own country?

>>14790622
>Say what you want about leftists
Yes I will, and you're not going to shut me up. You don't own minorities. We are not your pets.

>>14790631

One side is standing up for your right to exist, the other side would like to at the very least see you as an eunuch. I don't know who hurt you, but your allegiance is irrational

>>14790641
>I don't know who hurt you,
Hypocritical scum like you.
>but your allegiance is irrational
Don't assume my allegiance. You know nothing about me.

>>14787885
>>14788006
>>14788011
>>14788045
>>14788059
>>14789210

>>14790675

How do you feel about being inherently antithetical to ethnonationalism just by existing? The concept of a mixed race person is a very serious issue to the right, they don't have any simple solutions outside of deportation, sterilization or extermination. Obviously I find this reprehensible and evil, which is one of the reasons I'm a leftist

>>14790195

>>14790692
>How do you feel about being inherently antithetical to ethnonationalism just by existing?
I don't have feelings about /pol/tier meme ideologies. The people who actually pose a threat to me irl are like you.
>Obviously I find this reprehensible and evil, which is one of the reasons I'm a leftist
Don't even think about moralfagging after you just tried to hide behind a minority.

>>14790706
The unquestioned transcendent “humanity” clearly makes you in the right.

>>14790711

Yes. It actually does, because I'm not a psychopath who's unable to empathize with other beings forms who share consciousness and dna with me

>>14790710

Hide what exactly?

>>14787990
>Grrrrr don't obstruct the undercutting of those who are oblivious

>>14790706
Fixed it.

>>14790728
Don't try to play dumb either. You know exactly what you did and anyone who follows the chain of posts can see it too.

>>14788059
I’m taking the bait. This isn’t /fit but after you made this post you must’ve known that this was coming. POST BODY

>>14790796

Ironically European Jew's became bankers because of European Catholics putting them in those positions. I'm against Jewish nepotism and racism, but the entire Jewish conspiracy is laughable.

>>14790805

What? Tell you the obvious? That nazi's inherently don't want you to exist? Now is that really hiding behind a minority? lol

>>14790813
>I'm against Jewish nepotism
Sounds like something a Nazi would say.

>>14790858

I don't believe that Jew's are mystically subversive and a conspiring hivemind that needs to be exterminated, if anyone needs to be exterminated it's unironically nazi's who are blunt about their goals

>>14790827
>What? Tell you the obvious? That nazi's inherently don't want you to exist? Now is that really hiding behind a minority?
Now you think you can talk down to me and tell me my own lived experience. No, I will tell you, not the other way around.
I am a mixed race person. I fit simultaneously into a privileged category and an oppressed one. I am therefore used simultaneously as a punching bag on which to blame the evils of the world and as a pet minority to hide behind when you want to justify your actions. People with your exact beliefs and worldview are doing this.
>lol
There is nothing funny about this. You are literally the worst human beings in the world. I can't wait for you and the alt-right to all kill each other.

>>14790871
You still accused them of nepotism. This is a classic antisemitic canard.

>>14790888 (checked)
Hard to believe such anti-semites exist, I can't believe someone would have so much hate in their heart.

>>14790888

Jew's aren't immune to criticism, and saying this isn't an unthinkable revelation amongst leftists

>>14790905
>Jew's aren't immune to criticism
Another thing often said by antisemites to justify their hatred.

>leftoids
>being capable of understanding the right
choose one

>>14788056
The first may be true but fear doesn't describe the right at all.

>>14788970
t. has never heard of right wing modernism

>>14790954
>Fear of demographic change
>Fear of losing wealth and privilege
>Fear of declining social capital
>Fear of giving up traditions
You can make a very good case that these are rational fears, but they are still fears.

>>14790998
That's just the cucked right that can't hold on to anything. The thing about fear is that it is the obverse of the productive form, love.
>love of your people
>love of your home
>love of your society
>love of your traditions
These are the thing the true right believes in. Love yourself, your family, your neighbor. Protect them from anything that will harm them.

>>14790945
The human mind is complex. But the “conservative” is less so. You may leave the thread

>>14790998
IDK man, lately it's been the so-called left constantly fear mongering about the ""nazis"" and literally shaking because Orange man is president.
Let's just admit that fear is a good political mobilizer on any side.

I've skimmed through this thread and it just proves Jonathan Heidt is right. People on the "left" just don't get it, because they lack the broader moral sensitivity and they reduce everything to a few simple concepts that they understand (like fear and wealth).

>>14791069

>Love yourself, your family, your neighbor. Protect them from anything that will harm them.

Unless you're nonwhite, then you don't even get the privilege of personhood

>>14789570
>masturbation
What how whyyyy

>>14790324
Depends on environment
I live in a Russian city surrounded by 'stans, there are white and Asian?(Kazakhs, Tatars and so on, does that count as Asian?) people everywhere yet nobody cares

>>14790478
Russian from previous post here, there are lots of mixed people here, but again, nobody cares

>>14791146
For the most part people don't really care about strangers in general, at least as long as they don't start sticking out as groups.
People still notice different races (which technically makes them racist), but they keep their thoughts to themselves.

>>14790641
>who hurt you

>>14791155
My point is that there's literally no discrimination, not like American kind of racism, people are like "you're a Kazakh lol" with friends, not like "fuck Kazakhs" on political forums

>>14791146

Most countries in general are naturally genetically diverse, and ethnicity as a thing extends beyond the modern notion of genetic purity (whatever that is). Russia is a very different place than America, or even Western Europe in general. The situation here is kind of a shit show with identity politics, when normally people would get along pretty decently. Racism is not natural in my opinion, and that's not to say that people don't notice differences among people, but the exaggerated tribalism you see that's peddled on the internet is not indicative of how normal people feel.

>>14791167
>there's literally no discrimination
Perhaps no mass/organized discrimination, but on a personal level everyone has his own opinions and preferences.

Also, Kazakhs in Russia aren't as "different" as blacks in the US (both in the direct biological sense and in the socio-historical context). If Russia had a black population similar to the US you'd start seeing some similar racist patterns emerge.

>>14791188
>the exaggerated tribalism you see that's peddled on the internet is not indicative of how normal people feel.
Neither is the "diversity is good" narrative that's peddled by mainstream media and some politicians.

>>14791199

It's unhealthy to have obsessive negative thoughts about peoples race. Noticing differences among people is not the same as feeling resentment towards people for their features. Hyper tribalism is not normal, and it's not necessary either as different races are familiarized and no longer in the realm of the unknown for most.

>>14789177
This is true but somehow the very fact that the left dominates academia feels like they're winning.

>>14791079
You certainly might, living amongst your own people. Although unlikely because nonwhites routinely treat one another like animals. You may not realize it but you have a notion that living with whites is a human right. It never was, it's not, and it won't be.

>>14790337
You understand neither divorce laws nor its history. For anyone passing though, disregard everything this person says.

>>14791367

>whites all exist in a state of harmony and peace with one another

No, this is laughable ignorance. The only thing that brought "whites" together originally was christianity, and once that fell apart we killed each other over religion. This is really a sheltered worldview

Question: is it possible to put your opinions about race, gender etc. to the side and find out what the ideal political position is via empirical and historical evidence, or are we too biased to be able to do that?

For instance, I might identify as a socialist ideally, but since socialism doesn't work, I might conclude that a free market is a good idea. Likewise I might be a total capitalist in principle, but decide that public healthcare might be worth it if I see the right information.

>>14791296

The left is winning because the left is right.

>>14791416
>is it possible to put your opinions about race, gender etc. to the side and find out what the ideal political position is via empirical and historical evidence
No.
The "ideal political position" depends on your race, gender etc.

>>14791421
If the left were right it would be right

>>14791416
Yes

>>14791443
And yes

>>14791416

You can justify pretty much any position if you're moderately intelligent, and even dig up evidence to support your claims. The problem is that when you become so wrapped up in ideology that you justify all sorts of cruel and inhumane conclusions, all because of some drawn out chain of logical reasoning that totally seems rational and necessary.

>>14791436

In the end slavery benefits nobody

>>14791416
>>14791436
To expand on this further...
The world's resources are limited, so there's always going to be a struggle for ownership and power. This is inevitable, as much as some people think otherwise.
Political positions are then often just tools to achieve ownership and power.
If you're a poor person, for example, you might benefit from wealth distribution (in the short term), but if you're rich you won't. And rich/poor worldwide has some correlation with race.
Keep in mind that most people in the first world who argue for socialism don't really mean it, they're just virtue signaling. They don't actually want to share their wealth with the billions of poor third worlders. (And yes, I know berniebros just want slightly higher taxes.)

>>14791459
Depends. I heard pyramids were build by slaves and pyramids are pretty cool.
Slavery in the US was an obvious mistake, though, mostly to the detriment of white people.

>>14789634
>>14789608
Reminder that direct rule by jewish plutocrats who want you dead is the logical conclusion of NRX.

>>14791484
>If you're a poor person, for example, you might benefit from wealth distribution (in the short term), but if you're rich you won't. And rich/poor worldwide has some correlation with race.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veil_of_ignorance

>>14791449
That's only if you're actually ideological and have an agenda. What I'm asking is whether it's possible to genuinely and authentically seek truth in politics. I've been thinking about the veil of ignorance and I'm wonder if it's even plausible.

>>14791524
>That's only if you're actually ideological and have an agenda.
Everyone has an agenda. I bet you value your own life over that of a random stranger.

>>14791540

How do you explain random acts of self sacrifice?

>>14791558
By challenging the notion of "self" as the idea of being tied solely to one's individual body.
When a suicide bomber blows his own body up, he's still considering the benefits for himself (either his soul or the larger community he's part of).

>>14791558
Some things happen irrationally. What's your point? There are schizophrenics too in this world, how are you going to incorporate them into your GRAND UNIFIED theory of human behaviour?

>>14791540
I don't think you understand. The point of the veil of ignorance is to make your bet before knowing what cards you've been dealt. That means you put neither yourself nor others at an advantage when designing the system, since you don't know where you'd fall in the actual manifestation.

>>14791558
>>14791577
What most people aren't aware of is that the concept of self is quite fluid. Read Thomas Metzinger. Richard Dawkins in The Selfish Gene approaches it from a different, but somewhat related perspective.
The concept of self is also subject to ideological manipulation. Collectivist ideologies portray an individual as merely a part of a bigger whole (community, future project, idea...) and so on.
Almost none of us lives some cartoonish selfish life where we exclusively maximize our personal gain. We all sacrifice to some extent for the greater good (but we're included in it).

>>14791605
The idea of the "veil of ignorance" is itself a product of a certain (western liberal) ideology. I don't even want to waste time with something so easily "debunked". You can't design an ideal political system by pretty much ignoring the very foundation of politics (actual concrete people with concrete ambitions). Read something more interesting, like Carl Schmitt for example.

>>14788056
Sort of based.
>>14790954
'Fear' is the derogative word to mean risk assessment here. Absolutely any position can be described as 'fear' of having the opposite of what you want happen.

How can reactionaries be considered 'conservative', if they don't want to conserve the current system, but they want to change it?

>>14791605
Aside from the problem of even posing the 'veil of ignorance' in th first place, it completely ignores people having different views of risk aversion and dedication to self improvement (no matter where you start). Saying that these psychological factors enter into the veil of ignorance is even worse. It basically ensures a large population (and the most productive one) is permanently dissatisfied. It's arguable how it is even possible to reach any conclusion on the question without a set position on risk taking. Of course Rawls and Co consider that their own affects on the matter are the unbiased ones that remain valid under the 'veil of ignorance'. Pretty much anyone worth anything in the world would go all in on the danger of being in a bad position because they take risks and believe they can largely work out of most bad positions.

>>14791702
Many people (including anti-'conservatives') like to role play as rebels even when they have most institutional power. So they keep alive the image of an old defeated enemy that acts as a justification for the new order. It allows them to not become an true establishment, with the tacit obligations related to it ('noblesse oblige'). Most neoliberals or whatever you call them elites can yield power without ever feeling the demands of nobility once in their lives.
The standard for being so conservative are extremely variable by time and place. In the current US the fantasy is more or less the northeastern states in the 1950s, which is not the case at all outside of America.

>>14791459
Slavery was a tremendous benefit to blacks in the US

>>14791396
>muh christianity united evropa
the only religious wars ever fought by white people were fought under the auspices of christianity

>>14790449
>moderates being consistently less cucked
Good. Rightoids are once again proven to be only semi-mentally ill compared to leftoid complete madness.

>'serious' left wingers talking about right wingers
They are insecure (and mean).
>'serious' right wingers talking about leftists
They are gnostic.

How is there such an imbalance in analysis? Leftists could have explained the others as the non-gnostic orthodoxy but they keep wallowing in trite psychobabble that could be adapted against anyone.

>>14791817
Because leftists lack the moral framework required to understand right wing positions. Read Haidt's book. >>14787916

>>14791848
Quick rundown?
I remember reading most right iwnger can give a basic account of various left wing positions and motivations but not the reverse. Seems obvious from personal experience but apparently even heavily biased social scientists recognize that.
I assumed it was mostly because the first have to hear those points ad nauseum from many media pieces whereas leftists can easily insulate from hearing any diverging views. But it seems there is more to it.

>>14791924
>winger
>nauseam
I should consider sleeping at night again.

>>14791924
>Quick rundown?
The book is a very easy read (but it still has important things to say). You can download the audiobook and play it while doing your chores.

Anyway, he explains how "left" and "right" leaning people are different emotionally and to an extent this is genetic/inborn.
This wiring then subconsciously affects their worldview and their moral and political views.
For example, one of the basic and most underrated human emotions is disgust. Right leaning people can feel it more than left leaning ones, who are kinda deficient in this aspect. This then affects various aspects of their moral/political positions (race relations, the idea of sacred things...).
He also explains how morality originates in this emotional realm and the rational explanations just follow along. For example some people say it's morally wrong to fuck a dead chicken, but they can't really explain why.

Sorry, don't have time to write a better recap right now.

>>14791988
Seems obvious to me desu, but I guess obvious is better than wrong.