/lit/ - Literature

>>14699470
Arabic will be more useful.

Why don't you learn Hebrew? Jesus used it far more often than Aramaic.

Hebrew is a good option.
I don't recommend Aramaic because of the lack of resources but Arabic could be learned but is harder to learn than Hebrew, one cause being the difference in Abjads.

>>14699480
>>14699533
Arabic sounds more beautiful to me, and modern Judaic peoples and their pronunciation of Hebrew aren't the best, to put it lightly.
What's the better path if I will eventually want to learn both? I know they share a lot of roots for their words.

>>14699541
Modern Hebrew people don't read it properly.
They need the niqqud so they can pronounce the correct vowels.
If learning both I think you should do Hebrew first only because it is easier and will make it then easier for Arabic.

Learn Syriac for the most street cred. You can then read St. Ephraim's hymns in the original language.

>>14699480
Jesus was most likely a monolingual Aramaic speaker.

>>14699609
wrong. he spoke to moses and the prophets in hebrew

>>14699620
based

>>14699470
Why would you even consider Arabic? Why not Greek and Hebrew?

>>14699620
Based.

>>14699638
He said he's Orthodox. Greek makes sense but Hebrew is culturally irrelevant to Orthodox Christians with their Old Testament canon being the Septuagint and all.

>>14699620
Uh, so Jesus told the Israelites to massacre Canaanite women and children? That's not very compassionate of him, don't you think?

>>14699689

>>14699689

>>14699638
He wants to learn Arabic and marry a qt orthodox middle-eastern waifu.

>>14699744
A man of culture indeed.

>>14699744
Who could blame him?

>>14699744
Now that you say, that's actually not a bad idea. Does anyone here know if Arab Christians would generally allow their daughter to marry a white man?

>>14699744
based.

>>14699781
>Does anyone here know if Arab Christians would generally allow their daughter to marry a white man?
Probably, in the diaspora at least. There are a lot of Arab Christians in the Midwest US.

>>14699541
Aramaic sounds nicer than Arabic. Arabic can vary wildly depending on the dialect and the class.

>>14699480
Aramaic and Arabic are real languages. Hebrew is a conlang

>>14700229
Would you also call Latin a conlang?

>>14699708
>Death penalty is somehow not Christian.
Cringe

>>14700242
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone

>>14700242
jesus christ: "stone gay people"

modern soi christians: "no"

>>14700242
Papanikolaou is the Orthodox Fr. James Martin. Thankfully, he's just an academic clown and not clergy.

>>14700249
as in let Christ give you the authority to act on his behalf in stoning sodomites

>>14700249
>>14700252
>Let he who is without sin cast the first stone
>jesus christ: "stone gay people"
bros, how do we reconcile this? why did god change his mind so radically? im starting to believe the gnostics bros

>>14699470
learn latin. after the bible you get the romans, augustine, aquinas..

>>14700267
>learn latin, the simplest indo-european conlang
isn't that literally childsplay-tier though? wouldn't earn one much street cred.

>>14700278
This. Learn Greek.

>>14699470
Why would you learn arabic? It doesn't have much to do with christianity.

Arabic learning is a very long process and I think you will give up pretty quickly.

>t. spent 4 years learning arabic

>>14700278
yes it would earn street cred. It's 2020. People can't speak their own native language.
If you learn latin you are a god, specially if you are american

>>14699470
If you are Coptic then you should learn Arabic. Otherwise learn Greek, Hebrew and whichever language your jurisdiction is under.

>>14700304
>Otherwise learn Greek, (((Hebrew)))
demiurgic post...

>>14700308
yes unfortunately half of our bible was written in hebrew

>>14700314
Try 80%

>>14700239
Yes.

>>14700314
>was written in hebrew
In a reconstructed (read: constructed) Demiurgic version of it*. It wasn't the tongue Jesus Christ spoke to the Prophets in. It's better to read a translation to avoid being psyoped by you know (((whom))).

>>14700300
It takes like a week to learn how to read Arabic

>>14700300
Not him, but as a weeb, I made decent progress reading decently hard weeb works in ~2 years. Surely just reading a single work in Arabic cannot be much harder if you work intensively on the Biblical vocab.

>>14700327
>It's better to read a translation
Based. The Septuagint is _literally_ the Word of God and only it is truly canon.

>>14700347
is there a church which holds this view? sounds extremely based.

>>14700249
The State is the instrument of God on Earth, read the Church Fathers. Also: Luke 23: 39-41
Read carefully verse 41

39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”
40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence?
41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”

>>14700361
The Orthodox Church

>>14700260
How do our Orthodox friends feel about the level of fuckery going on right now in the American Greek Archdiocese?

>>14700361
the Latin Vulgate was translated from the Septuagint, not the Hebrew
so all of Christianity holds this view

>>14700361
>>14700347
The pro-Septuagint argument essentially boils down to the fact that for a long time prior to Christianity the Septuagint was considered authorotative by Jews, and that the "Masoretic" text actually postdates the Septuagint. The Masoretic has some very telling edits in it that give it away as more recent than the Septuagint. We just don't have the original Hebrew text, so the Greek text is probably more reliable. I'm not even Christian btw, but that's just my understanding.

>>14700327
ok i see what you mean. so thats why arameic was mentioned.

>>14700402
Nope. The Vulgate was translated from Hebrew.

>>14700419
Same with the Peshitta. It's really only Greeks that cling to the Septuagint.

>>14700412
The edits are also transparently tactical in that they try to obscure prophecies that clearly point to Christ as Messiah. Why any Christian would want to follow the textual tradition of Christ's murderers is beyond comprehension.

>>14700419
oh you're correct
pre-Jerome Latin Bibles were translated from the Septuagint

>>14700412
>>14700469
Which edits?

Learn Aramaic and promote a revival of the language.

>>14700285
>Learn Greek.
How hard is it to learn compared to Latin?

>>14700721
Latin and Greek topologically very similar, but Greek has a ton more patterns and irregular inflections to learn.

>>14700465
>It's really only Greeks that cling to the Septuagint.
The Septuagint is the uncreated eternal Word of God.

>>14700508
Some examples. They also have a completely different chronology, the motive for which is really convoluted and conniving, the tl;dr the epistles claim Melchitzedek "had no parents" and thus there exists an eternal priesthood different from the Levitical one, so they edited the birth and death times for some patriarchs so they could claim Melchitzedek was actually just a nickname for one of Abraham's ancestors (forget which one) and so the priesthood of Melchizedek passed down to Levi through Jacob, and thus the Levitical priesthood is the only legitimate one.

>>14699689
Jesus was also the Angel of the Lord that went into Sodom to see if their degeneracy was as bad as he had 'heard' (obviously God knew, but it was for Abraham's sake that He first went to Abraham.) The Angel of the Lord was among the three guests that the the Sodomites demanded be brought forth that they might 'know' them. It was also the Angel of the Lord who utterly destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah with the foretaste of hellfire. Remember that the next time low iq lefties tell you that Jesus never said anything about the gays.

>>14700391
Everyone who is B&RP knows that the Greeks are full of masons and ecumenists. the Russians/Serbs/Georgians if you can find them are far superior. Also since the EP pretended to give autocephaly to the Ukrainians, basically everyone apart from Greeks is now on the side of the MP lol.

>>14700839
>Russians
yes the kgb church of russi... i mean the russian orthodox church is quite based indeed

>>14700810
How do we know for sure that it isn't the Christian scriptures that have been altered? This question has been plaguing me lately.

>>14700848
The difference is that the KGB has no intention of destroying the Church unlike the British masons who infiltrated the Greeks.

>>14700848
Greeks absolutely S E E T H I N G when they get called out for being masonic jews haha. have you heard of ROCOR retard? oh wait i forgot that your archons blaspheme against the Orthodox church and deny its saints.

>>14700854
Because the Jews used to use the Septuagint too. The Septuagint isn't "Christian", it's actually Jewish, but the Jews stopped using it after Christianity came around. The oldest copies found of the Hebrew Biblical texts (Dead Sea Scrolls) are aligned with the Septuagint not the Masoretic. I mean, personally, I think it's all nonsense, but the Septuagint nonsense is more reliable than the Masoretic nonsense.

>>14700854
Most of the Old Testament citations in the New Testament are from the Septuagint. If the Septuagint was good enough for Jesus and the apostles then why look elsewhere?

>>14700854
Hebrew text is 1000 more recent. We have New Testament, various Liturgies, and writings of Church Fathers which all consistently use Septuagint. Hebrew text is not known of in current form until 10th century

>>14700863
neither Greek nor Orthodox, and a staunch supporter of calling out heresy.

just think it's funny that you talk about infiltration but ignore the fact that the Russian Orthodox Church was literally taken over, in its entirety, by the bolsheviks and then handed off to the KGB after the soviet union dissolved

>>14700869
>The oldest copies found of the Hebrew Biblical texts (Dead Sea Scrolls) are aligned with the Septuagint not the Masoretic
That's not true. The Dead Sea Scrolls are all over the place and often disagree with both the MSS and LXX, and it hasn't solved any major disputes between them.

>>14700903
>>14700869
The Dead Sea Scrolls belonged to a weird Jewish cult. It's of little more than historical interest.

>>14699480
>Why don't you learn Hebrew?
i would if it still existed and it was possible to learn it.

>>14701180
nice try, no one is falling for the troll

>>14700900
I just think it's funny that you aren't dealing with the fact that the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia wasn't in communion with any of the KGB bishops and yet you still have a problem with them.

>neither Greek nor Orthodox, and a staunch supporter of calling out heresy.
If you're not Orthodox then you have no basis for calling out heresy

>>14701193
>If you're not Orthodox then you have no basis for calling out heresy
Lmfao.
Based.

>>14701193
i am orthodox, just not (((Orthodox)))

>>14699470
Aramaic will be extremely difficult to find resources for. Hebrew or Arabic would be better, Greek isn't semitic but it would also be better.
Aramaic is basically only spoken by very small Christian communities and has very few unique texts written in it

>>14699620
Wrong the Demiurge did :)

Since this is the only christian thread right now, I'll just ask this here.

What is the /lit/-approved first Gospel to start with?

>>14701261
John.

And I will cut the person who says Thomas or some gay shit like that

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XWX54BW

>>14701265
The Gospel of Truth

>>14701261
Mark or John
any other answer is inccorect

>>14701261
Just read them in order. They're all short books. Take four days to read them. Maybe reread them all immediately after. Maybe read a gospel a day.

>>14701285
you think im playing around nigga?

>>14699470
do you already read greak fluently? and Koine?

>>14700508
>>14700854
psalm 22:16 for example. the verse as it is in the septuagint agrees with the hebrew verse of the dead sea scrolls which differs from the masoretic text. it's a known case of mistake that was carried in the masoretic tradition

Greek.

>>14701501
The scroll is barely legible and can be read as both "dug" (LXX) and "like a lion" (MSS), which are spelled almost the same, with the difference being between two similar looking letters. Neither of which make much sense in the context of the poem.

It's also been translated variously as "bound", and "disfigured", both by Christians and Jews in antiquity, so we're dealing with a pretty obscure word.

The NRSV renders it as "shriveled" on the basis of comparative evidence from Akkadian and Syriac, with a footnote that the meaning of the Hebrew is uncertain.

Unless another trove of ancient manuscripts are discovered we'll probably never know.

>>14701650
Clearly כארו and not כארי

>>14699470
the NT was written in greek.

>>14700822
>Jesus was also the Angel of the Lord that went into Sodom to see if their degeneracy was as bad as he had 'heard'
church father citation on that?

Even with this quality you can tell it's not another yod

>>14701296
Release me from this prison of matter daddy

>>14701745
>church father citation on that?
From St. Epharim the Syrian. All the appearances of the Angel of the Lord where the 'Angel' is worshiped is the pre-incarnate Christ though. I've never heard anyone doubt this.

>>14701732
Not exactly. Yods were often elongated, especially at the end of words.

Here's the same word in Isaiah 38:13, which everyone agrees is "like a lion", from the Great Isaiah Scroll.

>>14701743
I don't think anyone is claiming it wasn't, anon...

>>14701881
yeah but there were three "men" who visited abraham, then only two went into sodom. it says that one of the "men" was literally "the Lord," and two other angels, so was "the Lord" in this God the father, and one of the angels was God the son?

>>14700810
How is that Isiah chapter about virgin birth relevant to Jesus if it was talking about a war when there still was a temple in Jerusalem?

>>14700322

Based

>>14699559
Modern Hebrew follows Sephardic pronunciation, which is the closest to ancient Levantine Hebrew pronunciation. Furthermore modern Hebrew speakers don't use niqqud.

>>14702052
>ancient Levantine Hebrew pronunciation
how could anyone possibly know ancient levantine pronunciation?

There are a lot of interesting Orthodox saints who are Arabic and wrote in it like Raphael of Brooklyn There are a lot of monatic works written arabic and many of them are also written in French. There are some Arabic Orthodox philosopher and Theologians as well like Theodore Abu Qurrah and John of Damascus. Not all of them wrote in Greek and Arabic. There also a still few Aramaic speaking Orthodox Christians. Not much of their literature remains because of persecution even to this day. However, a lot of Eastern Orthodox writings are in Greek, Russian, Georgian and Romanian. If you want a good book on Orthodox Arabs in Middle East try The Orthodox Church in the Arab World: 700-1700 ; an Anthology of Sources by Samuel Noble and Alexander Treiger.

>>14701881
>I've never heard anyone doubt this.
St. Augustine did.
>>14701933
Only the Angel of the Lord is the pre-Incarnate Christ. All of the Old Testament theophanies are identified with Christ.

>>14702476
True forgot about him.

>>14699470
Hebrew for the OT. Then Syriac (the written language based on Aramaic) to read the Peshitta NT used in the Orthodox Church. You can choose between Hebrew and Arabic alphabets, it's the same text

>>14699470
Modern Hebrew is a synthetic language that was made up in the 19th century and IS NOTHING like Masaretic Hebrew, the language of the ancients, though they share a few characters. Masaretic Hebrew and Koine Greek are what you are looking for, though I don't know if you can learn them today.

>>14699480
see>>14703083

>>14700900
get it straight.
OCA worked in tandem with and was supported by commies.
Based ROCOR actively fought against commies.

Greek. Most of the new testament was written in Greece

>>14699480
Is this some sort of JIDF propaganda? It is widely known and accepted in scholarly circles that Jesus’ native language and the one he preached in and did everything else in was Aramaic. He knew some Greek and it’s possibly he had some knowledge of Hebrew.

>>14699620
based

god spoke in greek, bro. it's hard, but biblical greek is easier than classical because the NT was written by jews.

>>14700330
Yeah the letters

It takes years to get to a stage in understanding grammatical constructions, vocab etc where you could read literature

>>14700339
Vocab isn't the main problem, but rather the grammar, morphology and syntax of classical Arabic

>>14699470
If you're Orthodox you learn Greek

ancient Hebrew. Once you got the vocab down, the old testament takes on a whole new level of meaning. Congrats, you'll be one step closer to initiation. Guenon (pbuh) can show you the rest of the way.

>>14704878
>ancient Hebrew
I doubt there are prophets in this thread who can receive knowledg of Hebrew directly from Allah (swt).

>>14702448
Thanks anon, saved your post.

>>14700391
>>14700839
>>14700848
are greeks really that pozzed????

>>14700187
Afaik learning normal Arabic will do just fine, it's enough to understand anything Arabic, from current scripts to ancient ones.

Concerning hebrew, should one ever learn the language of a people one despises with all his heart? Couldn't that transfer a malicious spiritual influence onto a person?

>>14706700
I meant the sound of Arabic... my bad. I do agree that the differences between dialects is overrated.

I didn't know there were any actual knowledgeable orthodox people using 4chan. I guess it makes sense considering how popular the site is, but I never would've expected actual discussions like this to be possible.

>>14707201
There was a thread about hesychasm recently with a lot of knowledgeable people in it.

>>/lit/thread/S14672941

>>14707271
Thanks anon

>>14706619
In the US, yes.
In Europe, they have no freedom. The Prime Minister just said he was going to seize private property on the islands for (((refugees)))
t. Greek Orthobro

>>14707201
>he wasn't on 4chan during the constantine days

>>14707460
That pseud did far more harm to orthodoxy than good

>>14699541
>Arabic sounds more beautiful to me, and modern Judaic peoples and their pronunciation of Hebrew aren't the best, to put it lightly.
Arabic isn't exactly of primary relevance to biblical studies though. It has rather served as a source for the reconstruction of proto-Semitic. Even so, discourse on biblical Hebrew pronunciation does exist. The Yemeni Jewish community is of particular interest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibeh7X5WjPQ&list=PLW6tQSLJ3_Vknn6PvFdOIgFwy-YpBjpCO

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemenite_Hebrew
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiberian_Hebrew
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Hebrew#Vowels

https://youtu.be/qif-PpoFkTE
https://youtu.be/xsX3er5TI24
https://biblehub.com/text/genesis/1-1.htm

Studying Aramaic and examining Syriac texts could help uncover underlying meanings of the non-narrative portions of gospels. Looking at the biblical texts of other languages such as Greek and Latin is also necessary for gaining a fuller understanding of the interpretation of scripture throughout the ages.

>>14702671
Murdock's translation of the NT was probably the most concrete. There is a possibility that the Peshitta's OT could have Septuagint influences as with the OTs of other scriptural traditions such as Coptic and Ethiopic.

>>14707480
she was a genuinely good poster. one of the few trip fags i ever liked

>>14700419
The most popular Vulgate text available is probably the culmination of numerous revisions going back and forth to bring it in accord between Hebrew and Greek.

>>14700465
The Peshitta might have had Septuagintal or targumic influences.

>>14706965
Pretty silly thing to think considering its alphabet and those of the languages the greater portion of the world speaks are descended from the same ultimate source as well as the fact that there are numerous languages related to it.

>>14699470
It would probably be useful to analyze the continuity of language use in the Levant from Hebrew and similar Canaanite tongues to the rise of Aramaic languages.

Does Hebrew have anything besides a profane historical importance? Considering how the Jewish scriptures have been altered, is it useful to study Hebrew for theological reasons?

>>14708432
why of course. in this way, you get the milk straight from the teat, as Guenon (pbuh) would say

>>14708442
But how do I know if this milk truly has an amritic life-saving quality when the scriptures have been changed to potentially insert highly damaging incantations?

>>14702059
Same way we know how any ancient language was pronounced, we guess based on known sound shifts in languages how the language sounded

>>14708550
Probably no worse than the tampering of other translations.

>>14708648
The Septuagint hasn't been tampered with though.

>>14699470
akkadian

>>14710162
Based Christian lang

bump.

>>14709596
It translates the Hebrew varyingly.

>>14713079
How do you know? Do you have the original Hebrew to compare the full meaning with?

>>14699620
This. And in Latin to the Roman centurions.

>>14713093
There are more witnesses to the oldest Hebrew texts than the oldest Greek texts. Do you have the original Septuagint?

>>14713100
>centurions
They were called hecatontarchs (hundred-leaders) in the gospels and could probably communicate in Gureeek.