/lit/ - Literature

>>14693757
it's called Progress sweatie, be on the right side of history

>>14693757
*removes filter*

>let's call it the "cathedral" you stupid goyim

>>14693795
he adds good insight, I always struggled to ask myself if he was a plant.

And yeah, the cathedral is unbelievably vague, you're not going to beat it by calling it that.

>>14693806
>I always struggled to ask myself if he was a plant.
I doubt he is a plant, even though he is a Jew. I think he is just used to huffing his own farts, and this interview demonstrates that quite well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mgbj_lKS1l0

Hierarchy is order.
A destruction of order is a destruction of hierarchy.
Destruction of order is spontaneous.
Destruction of hierarchy is spontaneous.
Leftism is about destroying hierarchy.
Leftism is spontaneous.
Rightism is not spontaneous.
Rightism requires effort to maintain.
Rightism is always playing defense.
Leftism is always playing offense.

Over time, the defenses have been crumbling. To what consequences? We are finding out the hard way.

>>14693980
it's a useful analysis to understand the present politics, but it's wrong on a historical perspective. Capitalism has for example been pushed by the left, is it bad or good? What about environmentalism? that had strong right wing starts. The truth is that the left retroactively puts all the good stuff on the left and all the bad stuff on the right.

>>14693980
>>14694010
Stop thinking in the left-right dichotomy, retards. Think in terms of being and becoming. Take your copypasta and replace leftism with becoming and rightism with being.

>>14694010
Modern cultural leftism is capital's disguise for perpetuating economic rightism. I think that anon was using "rightism" in the context of social norms and authoritarianism.

>>14693980
the only worthwhile order lives inside chaos, and all chaos is order viewed at a great enough distance

Why you sliding, Curtis?

>>14694148
what do you imagine the effect of you autistically spamming these threads is?

>>14694173
Literal LARP. This spam is meaningless even within the scope of the thread.

>>14694173
Getting you to slide and seethe.

>>14694173
Just one difference between the Synagogue of Skype and Ancapistan anon. Name it. Just one.

>Let’s start with my ideal world – the world of thousands, preferably even tens of thousands, of neocameralist city-states and ministates, or neostates. The organizations which own and operate these neostates are for-profit sovereign corporations, or sovcorps. For the moment, let’s assume a one-to-one mapping between sovcorp and neostate. […] Let’s pin down the neocameralist dramatis personae by identifying the people who work for a sovcorp as its agents, the people or organizations which collectively own it as its subscribers, and the people who live in its neostate as its residents.

>A Neocameral ‘neostate’ is not owned by its residents or its agents. Its ‘monarch’ (or ‘CEO’) is an executive appointment. (90% of all confusion about Neocameralism, and Neoreaction in general, stems from a failure to grasp this elementary point.) Note: ‘subscribers’ (plural). More coming on this immediately.

>Every patch of land on the planet has a primary owner, which is its sovcorp. Typically, these owners will be large, impersonal corporations. We call them sovcorps because they’re sovereign. You are sovereign if you have the power to render any plausible attack on your primary property, by any other sovereign power, unprofitable. In other words, you maintain general deterrence. […] (Sovereignty is a flat, peer-to-peer relationship by definition. The concept of hierarchical sovereignty is a contradiction in terms. …) […] The business of a sovcorp is to make money by deterring aggression. Since human aggression is a serious problem, preventing it should be a good business. Moreover, the existence of unprofitable governments in your vicinity is serious cause for concern, because unprofitable governments tend to have strange decision structures and do weird, dangerous things. […] (Nuclear deterrence (mutual assured destruction) is only one small class of deterrent designs. To deter is to render predictably unprofitable. Predictably unprofitable violence is irrational. Irrational violence is certainly not unheard of. But it is much, much rarer than you may think. Most of the violence in the world today is quite rational, IMHO.) […] General deterrence is a complex topic which deserves its own post. For the moment, assume that every square inch of the planet’s surface is formally owned by some sovcorp, that no one disagrees on the borders, and that deterrence between sovcorps is absolute.

>>14693757
what is this jew mfs endgame

Pedoconomics is not a legitimate area of literature or philosophy discussion.

>>14694148
>>14694173
>>14694203
>>14694215
>>14694236
>>14694241
>>14694258

>>14694241
To divert all opposition into passive outlets. Same as any glowie operation.

>HE SOUNDED AMAZING!

>>14694280
This but unironically

>>14693827
If you don't think he's a plant you've failed to understand how maliciously calculating (((they))) are.

No opportunity to advance or highlight their interests is allowed to be wasted

>>14694517
I grew up around a lot of kikes; I live in LA. A lot of them are just used to huffing their own farts. I am sure he has a lot of connections, from being a Jew, that allows his career to continue, but I don' think that he is part of some elaborate plan or anything.

>>14694525
No, fair enough but his public attention and his agenda are perfectly in sync with every other globalist plant.

His Jewish identity which holds the Holocaust sacred is unquestionable. Your white identity which is evil cannot be taken seriously.

He's a Jewish supremacist. I've come to believe a lot of them are like the borg. They barely even know what they're doing but they will never tolerate anything but the advancement of Jewish interests and will use all the Pilpul they can muster to further this

Behold: Concentrated Pilpul

https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/2011/10/holocaust-nazi-perspective/

>>14694517
>it's all sum intricate conspiracy!
People like you are why normal people are hostile to tackling the JQ

>>14693827
He comes across so full of himself in that interview and Kantbot doesn't help things.

>>14694173
Slide it, goy

>>14694593
It's not intricate. It's all pervasive.

Show me a Western mainstream media source in which Jews are collectively criticised.

It doesn't exist. They simply do not allow it.

>>14694173
Is one too much to ask?

>>14694660
How did anyone take ancap shit serious back in like 2014?

>>14694678
Same as they take it serious now.

>>14694711
It died off a lot.

>>14694022
Stop thinking of being and becoming as an opposition, but instead an interdependency. Also realize that rightism doesn't correspond to either and is merely socially infectious epistemic retardation.
http://kiriakakis.net/comics/mused/a-day-at-the-park

>>14693757
>They say only Good can create, whereas Evil is sterile. Think Tolkien, where Morgoth can’t make things himself, so perverts Elves to Orcs for his armies. But I think this gets it entirely backwards; it’s Good that just mutates and twists, and it’s Evil that teems with fecundity.
>Imagine two principles, here in poetic personification. The first is the Goddess of Cancer, the second the Goddess of Everything Else. If visual representations would help, you can think of the first with the claws of a crab, and the second a dress made of feathers of peacocks.
https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/08/17/the-goddess-of-everything-else-2/

>>14694750
>Whitehead
Retroactively refuted by Rene Guenon (SAWS). Fuck off with that shit. Sartre (in AntiSemite and Jew) even said that Bergson, Whitehead's successor, as a Jewish psyops.

>>14694764
*is a

>>14694750
when you say things like that it makes no sense.

>>14693806
>you're not going to beat it by calling it that
I think he called it that so that it would strike a chord with people in his own milieu, ie the liberal, faggy educated class.
A lot of people on the (largely wignat) far right have trouble with Moldbug because they are used to right wing content which panders to them. He didn't see any use in making appeals to powerless whites and the party which makes its living by losing every major battle for a hundred years.

>>14693757
why do basedboys always think that leather jackets would make them look good? lmao

>>14694910
>wignat

>>14694236
Well, one is based on free contract theory and will supposedly even out over time into some sort of organic equalitarianism with freedom and Natural Rights respected for and by all, where any man can be anything if he works hard enough. The other realizes that social contract theory, equality, natural rights, freedom are all fake and gay, that markets are extensions of state power and it is best to face these facts head on rather than delude ourselves into thinking that we can have large, functioning and competently run societies if we aren't honest about how power actually functions.

>>14693806
But the thing he's describing IS a little bit vague. It refers to all the organs of informal power, formerly the church was the most prominent source of that.

>>14694274
Oh, what thinkers do you follow who are going to lead us in to the glorious new age? Tell me more about your ethnostate

>>14694582
You realize denying the holocaust is 100% guaranteed to make you sound like a wingnut and literally no one will listen to you outside of your fellow wignat twitter followers and /pol/ aspies?

>>14694936
Nig Fuentes <<<<wignats

>>14694968

>>14694940
so you take ancapism seriously. this really is just a crypto acc thread

>>14694968
Pointing out that it's actually illegal to question it in much of europe does make quite a few normies think for a second. It's one of the very few ways to instill doubt, because normies have a meme module in their head that says that if the state outlaws questioning things then it's Orwellian.

>>14694968
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said before the UN that the Holocaust is bullshit, and he was the president of Iran. Maybe Americans are just subhumans and we should stop pandering to them?

>>14694764
Good to see guenonfag in the mix.

>>14695011
>guenonfag
I'm actually an Evola fan. Whiteheadians are more cancer than guenonfags, however.

>>14694625
Show me a western mainstream media source where anyone except white people are collectively criticised.

>>14694999
This is fair. Especially since we are like 80 years on and people are still harping on it. I think it is worth questioning its significance and why it is essentially a foundational myth in our almost a creation myth in our culture. I am not opposed to using it as a lever in this way.

>>14695009
Are we trying to change Iran? I thought we were concerned with the direction of the West where questioning the holocaust is indeed punished legally or otherwise.

>>14694992
No, I don't. Anarcho capitalism is a joke, based on weak and fanciful premises, just like every other descendant of liberalism.

>>14694936
The right is littered with low quality people and wignats are by far the worst.

>>14693980
A prison is ordered, a death camp is ordered, slaves in a mill are ordered. War is the attempt to order the most chaotic of all. The unnatural is the ordered, the unnatural is the human law.

>>14694999
Many of the countries that outlaw denying the holocaust also outlaw the denial of other genocides.

>>14695050
I'm a Tutsi genocide denier myself. Didn't happen.

>>14695035
>hates ancapism
>promotes its final form

>>14695044
don't forget about the ordered tyranny of heteronormative male-female marriage bonds.

>>14695079
Precisely. The end of hierarchy between genders is a key part of human liberation. How can we have a world where human life is self determined without it?

>>14695104
and why should anyone tell us that we can't marry our dogs, or our horses, or a colony of ants? The world is a truly oppressive milieu.

>>14695104
What does self-determined human life look like? Do we have to raise humans in pods so they aren't socialized by oppressive cultural forces, and the let them loose to interact in completely lawless madness

>>14695135
Who knows what this future might look like? The world is a process, and really, the only way to real knowledge is through science, which can only be known after the fact. As it exists currently, our knowledge clearly is filled with mistakes, and as it was before too, which is why man endeavored so hard to change it at all.

What a truly self-determined human life would be, is one that has a complete self-knowledge. When there is a hierarchy, those under it do not have self-determination, and struggle for it. Those at the top of hierarchies also struggle for self-determinacy. They project their will to power as their self, and therefore their self-determinate form is that of infinite power. They are always seeking more, to control more people. This is the will to power in motion, it is the source of all contradictions in man.

The self-determined human consciousness is the one in which the will to power is self-othered. It is where any form of leadership, such as the parent-child relationship goes from seeking domination over, to teaching self determination to. This is already something people are capable and do. The child does not listen to their parent out of punishment alone, do they? What need does the loving and wise father have for threats?

>>14695272
>What need does the loving and wise father have for threats?
idk bro have you ever met a 2 year old

>>14695288
Yeah and decent parents dont beat their 2 year olds, whats your point? They're like animals. They're not fully conscious, and they dont know self-determinacy. Projecting these moral arguments onto infants to try and pretend you've come up with some huge dialectical foil is just meaningless.

>>14695310
they need negative as well as positive reinforcement was the point

>>14693980
This is so fucking retarded. If the right is always on defence then there was never any generative event to create right wing principles. It's like you're saying "I have always been walking down the stairs of this building," without stopping to consider that at some point you had to have *started* walking down the stairs.

>>14694022
>Stop using this dichotomy, retard, use this other dichotomy I learned about from reading the Wikipedia for Frederick Neetshee

>>14694271

>>14693795
>>14693806
>>14694910
He got it from "The Cathedral and the Bazaar", a book about software development.

Curtis was a programmer before he became a Sithlord of the Dark Enlightenment.

>>14695387
Based immunity dog.

>>14695802
>He got it from "The Cathedral and the Bazaar"
Holy shit, an ESR fan that's even uglier than ESR himself

>>14694582
Isnt the point of this that jews helped kill jews

>>14694750
i like how you occult pseuds are so lazy to actually philosophy, that you highlighted like the first sentence in the first chapter of an intro to whitehead and probably didnt read anything further then that, did it make your little xtc filled head hurt you little bitch nigger

>>14693980
Note that in this scheme there is no creation, no creative aspect. There is only defense of what is created and destruction of it. Creation is the monopoly of some unnamed figure in the background (probably Yaweh). Pretty stupid scheme. Man is a creative being, he is capable of more than just impotent defense and puerile destruction.

>>14694968

You realise that claiming "the Holocaust" was a thing because some tortured National Socialist prisoners confessed to some elaborate murder by proxy scheme which would have struggled to reach into the thousands of victims is pretty weak rhetoric. But then a lot of you fellows really have no self awareness do you?

Only boomers and SJWs believe that shit now.

>>14693771
I can’t help that I’m sweatie. I just went to the gym.

>>14695058
Well that's an appalling position to hold. I hoipe the powerless Tsutsi victims will destroy your career, take your assets, put you in jail and then rob your country forever for denying the... how many was it? What's the fixed number that even the Tsutsi historical record doesn't agree on but that we're not allowed to question because it tallies in with how many people need to die before the Tsutsis take over the planet and enslave all the other races forever?

>>14693757
>isn't it?
Yes, I unironically think it's extremely witty.
Especially if you're coming from reading Hegel's ideas.

>>14693980
No such thing as destroying hierarchy. Leftists have hierarchy it's just a dysfunctional and destructive one incapable of fostering healthy people or creating anything in general, especially something sincere and real.

>>14695359
Actually describes how rightism has diverged from its path for hundreds of years pretty well desu.

>>14694280
Yeah, it as a poor choice of words.

I really like the patchwork theory. If only it could have ecological theory perhaps it could ensure the existence of the human race as a whole.

>>14694764
>Guenon
Stay sharp for Nicky Land threads.

>>14693980
The Left has definitively lost every single engagement it has fought with the Right over the last 200 years. The trick is that the reformed Left, after their humiliating defeat, simply redefines whatever actually happened in the meantime as victory.

>Hurr durr French Revolution
>Whoops France is an Empire with an Emperor now
>oh fuck oh shit we're all dying holy fuck why are we in Russia FUCK FUCK FUCK
>Okay okay maybe the liberte equalitie fraternitie thing didn't turn out but WOMEN CAN VOTE NOW YEAAAAAAH

Every single left-wing "revolution" is like this. They gradually get blown the fuck out by Liberal Capitalism which then allows them to keep some irrelevant token bullshit issue as a concession while further cementing its own power in ways which, in previous eras would have been unimaginable.

Imagine if you tried to explain to an 18th century Englishman that in 200 years, he would be literally under surveillance every moment for his entire life, but the government would also have the right to take his children away from him AND he would be required by law to pay for state-sanctioned propaganda to be blared into his house every day.

He wouldn't have even understood what you were talking about, but while the trappings of left-wing "victory" hang on every wall, the reality is that the dominance hierarchy of the modern day has become so powerful that it can now simply declare your thoughts illegal and arrest you, and there isn't a fucking thing you can do about it.
>"buh buh we have faggot 'marriage!'"
Good for you.

>>14693980
God I miss being your age.

>>14700048
>capitalist law
>ecology
not going to happen

>>14700480
It has to happen or we are all dead. And is going to be a long and painful death.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtATDlUSIxI

>>14700480
I've got your ecology theory right here: it's called space colonization. We exterminated the beavers in Europe and then colonized the Americas in pursuit of more beavers, 'tis the western way.

>>14700632
I don't think there are too many space beavers. And to genetically modify humans against radiation would be more destructive than any of the benefits.
Go to Mars to return to the stone age. Not too bright.

>>14699916
Incredibly delusional.

>>14699941
lel

>>14699941
Based

>>14699916
lol they really got a hold onto you

>>14700642
>I don't think there are too many space beavers.
The arrogance of youth.

>>14700100
based

>All right bro, so basically what you're saying is...fight the establishment?
>Yes. I mean no. I mean...oh my gawd, just read it again, OK? It's only 50 pages

>>14695050
Not true, in Netherlands and Germany for example there's loads of Turkish politicians openly denying the Armenian genocide and throwing a fit whenever it's brought up, this all goes unpunished.

>>14693980
we really need a final solution to the Dualist Question

>>14702452
This is not a refutation. A number of european countries outlaw denial of the armenian genocide.

>>14700100
I think this is pretty on point.

>>14694750
wow... that comic is fucking retarded

>>14699961
And yet the Soviet Union produced some of the greatest composers and writers of the 20th century while the USA is a culturless wasteland, and while West Germany produced worthless americanised pop like Modern Talking and Boney M, East Germany produced great music in their native language while respecting their cultural herritage, not to mention championing the works of Bach.

>>14703647
nigga just learn to fry some potatoes

>>14693757
>>14693772
>>14693795

>>14693806
>And yeah, the cathedral is unbelievably vague, you're not going to beat it by calling it that.
>>14694945

https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/2007/05/iron-polygon-power-in-united-states/


>The Polygon might be defined as the “extended civil service.” It consists not of those who hold actual formal GS rank, but those whose position demands a sense of civic responsibility—real or fake. The major vertices of the Polygon, by my count, are the press, the universities, the judiciary, the Fed and the banks, the “Hill” (congressional staff), the civil service proper, the NGOs and transnationals, the military, the Beltway bandits (defense and other contractors), and corporate holders of official monopolies (such as “intellectual property”).

there you have it faggots

>>14703518
Ignorant Slav trash. The world farts in your general direction.

>>14702438
guess the important distinction is that Establishment no longer means Government and that Power is wielded by the institutions of education commerce and entertainment

>>14703740
>>14703740
>The world farts in your general direction
Not surprised that the decadent american mind is scatological.

>>14703832
At least you admit that you’re ignorant Slav trash. It’s a first step! Soon you’ll be able to admit to your many errors, mistakes, idiocies, etc.

>he STILL hasn’t read it
>he STILL thinks moldbug is a libertarian
>lemme just spam ancap memes and ignore people answering my retarded questions
this is aggressive stupidity
https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/2007/12/why-i-am-not-libertarian/

>>14703715
just be white to claim your free asian bride

>>14699961
I'm talking about leftism today, which is almost purely a social pecking order, quite a schizophrenic one too. USSR has nothing to do with it, and great composers are in spite of it and leftism, not because of it.

>>14693757
Any books on this phenomenon? I know there is some good data out there but wondering if anyone has weaved it into a broader narrative

>2020
>I am forgotten

>>14693757
I don’t get it

>>14693757
how do y'all have so many moldbug pics
i only knew about the same post at the claremont institute is using

>>14703736
So about 50% of Americans? Nice job pinpointing the enemy.

>>14706662
>So about 50% of Americans?

mutt math everyone

>>14706842
I was obviously being hyperbolic, but federal civil servants and active and reserve military personnel alone make up more than 5 millions people, and those figures are a few years old. That doesn't include all states and local civil servants (in particular that excludes most teachers and policemen), the press and the staff of private universities (which is most universities in the US, and there are two of them for each state), the "defense and other contractors" which is huge, an the NGO and corporate holders of official monopolies.

Just to give you an idea, public teachers alone where north of 2.5 millions accross the country three years ago. In total the categories explicitly mentioned by Moldbug are more than 10 million strong (being very conservative in my estimate), and that's not counting the categories he didn't mention as example but that still fit his definition. We're talking about a not insignificant chunk of the US population here. Moldbug's Cathedral is a huge blanket, the point stands.