/lit/ - Literature

>>14611949
paintings are silly

Still not /lit/.

>>14611949
Perhaps the woman was the better painter? I do like the expression on Caravaggio's Holofernes more, but I'm an art Philistine. I couldn't tell you which is better or worse or why. If I had to pick one I'd pick Caravaggio because that expression is the thing that sticks out the most to me out of either.

Yeah one painting is better therefore all of (gender) painting sucks!! Haha. Got eem

>>14611949
The artists were aiming for different effects? This discussion sounds extremely retarded

>>14611949
Is the argument she's trying to make something along the line of
>only a woman can accurately paint/depict/photographs a woman
because if so, whatever. It's just pointless internet drama.

>>14611949
I like the poses and composition of Gentileschi's but Caravaggio's paint looks much smoother, he mixes colors better, the shadows are beautiful and the faces more dramatic. I don't know jack about art though. Caravaggio's looks much more in the Renaissance style while the other seems more modern.

Technically this thread would belong on /his/.

And only depictions of elephants by elephants themselves are correct and superior then

>>14611949
>twitterposting
you should slit your throat

>>14612153
ok
GLAAAAARGHHHAAAAAHHHGGG

>>14611949
The difference can be mostly be attributed to how Caravaggio tended to paint, compose, and pose his figures vs. how Artemisia tended to paint, compose, and pose her figures instead of how men and women draw women.

Either way, any value judgement on the paintings basically comes down to taste.
To my eye, there's more drama in Caravaggio's depiction of Judith's ambivalence. Artemisia's Judith looks like she's ruthlessly stomping out a pest, but it's harder to read the expression on Caravaggio's Judith. This opens the painting up to more complex interpretation. Does she feel remorse? Disgust? Curiosity? The nuanced depiction almost makes it seem like her face changes based on whatever you project onto the painting.

Caravaggio INVENTED the style that Gentilischi went on to copy, and his place in art history is assured because of that. He is unquestionably the greater artist.

Still, I think Gentileschi's version of this particular subject is better as a work of art: it isn't quite a fair comparison, however, as Gentileschi had Caravaggio's version as a model to start from.

Caravaggio is much better at conveying emotions through facial expressions: look at faces of the various personae and compare.

Also, Gentileschi doesn't have much beyond this painting, unfortunately.

>>14611949
only thing you can deduct for certain from this comparison is that caravaggio is a 100x better colorist and that his painting also has more interesting composition and detail, on top of a certain ethereal ambiguity that makes the work memorable, while the painting on the right looks by comparison tiring to look at and common, leaving no lasting impression

>>14611949
What is trending? How many people we talking?

>>14611949
not a single person believes that Gentileschi is better than Caravaggio.

>>14612381
https://www.reddit.com/r/menwritingwomen/comments/eu6pri/rmenpaintingwomen/

I don't understand what point she is trying to make, in what way is the depiction of women significantly different between the two images? Also who the hell uses a slash like that

>>14612373
>leaving no lasting impression
and yet here we are, 400 years later

>>14611949
In terms of the posing of the figures and the drama of the piece I prefer gentileschi, but I prefer the color and composition of the caravaggio

>>14611949
Right is more dynamic, yet left contains more action and sentiment. The key issue is the lack of distinction in the execution of the faces in the right.

>>14612381
The art that got canonised got canonised by a straight white male gaze. Revisionist and feminist art cristicism is meant to make you feel you uncomfortable, and decentered because as a privileged white male you are probably not used to feeling uncomfortable, you don't know what it's like to see western culture as an oppressive otherig force. The discomfort you feel is not even a millionth of what marginalised people feel every instant of their counscious existence.

Fuck women tbqh

>>14612406
it's a forced meme

>>14612444
not a single person believes that Gentileschi is better than Caravaggio.

>>14612461
if by people you mean stale white male cultural gatekeepers

As a depiction of events, I feel Gentileschi's is better. The blood also looks more like what I would assume a slit throat would look like. The second woman appears to be using her weight to hold down Holofernes, and the throat slitter appears to also be using her weight. The darkness is more indicative of it being night, and thus a deception. Holofernes is also clearly freaking the fuck out, almost incoherently. It's a better "painting as photography".

Caravaggio's, meanwhile, I see as almost a Shakespearean play: It's not supposed to literally depict events, but rather depicts signs of events. Everything, as an individual piece, looks like an "X", but everything is arranged to clearly depict the signs rather than an actual event. The women are more extreme (gorgeous and hideous), the "night" almost looks like a stage with lights from above, the blood is laughable, Holofernes is not freaking out in the right way, etc. But everything immediately tells me what I'm SUPPOSED to feel and think better then the other.

They serve different purposes. I like both.

>>14612444
>canonised by a straight white male gaze
Nah. There's no bias towards straightness in art, if anything it's more fruity than most fields. Leonardo painted the most famous piece of all time and he used to fuck Salai's boypussy every night. I can concede that there is a bias towards white men though and the reason for that is simply that white men created the best stuff. Other parts of the world were able to create their own work in isolation from Europe and it's all complete garbage, and while women are certainly capable of creating great art, they do so at a much lower rate than men simply because creative subjects elude most of them due to how their brains are wired.

>>14612494
>not boipucci
ngmi

>>14611949
I prefer the one on the left

>>14611949
>the lighting in Caravaggio highlights Judith
>the woman's lighting highlights Holofernes
lmao the irony

if i wanted to participate in twitter threads i would have a twitter account you dumb fuck. why should i care about anything these people are saying? what are you trying to get out of this?

Artemisia was a pretty good painter desu. But what difference is it supposed to show that can only be attributed to the painting being made by a woman?
Pic is a de Boulogne

>>14611949
Caravaggio’s is objectively better.

>>14612494
>simply because creative subjects elude most of them due to how they were raised
ftfy

>>14611949
this is another version by Caravaggio

>>14611949
Twitter posts for OPs should be a bannable offense, and you should kill yourself.

>>14611949
Which one is which ?

>>14612555
>what are you trying to get out of this?
a more fruitful and diverse discussion than what you'd see on twitter

>>14612255
based judith beheading soibois

>>14612597
>Twitter posts for OPs should be a bannable offense
this

>>14612597
beat me to it

>>14612568
What I can think of is that the women are very active and VIOLENT, to portray a woman as having a capacity for violence would be very unusual for a man, at least at that time.

>>14612255
>noooo, not the hecking headerino!!! you can't behead me!!!!

>>14611985
still a nigga, still a nigga.

>>14611949
Explain the criteria by which one decides what art is “greater” and what s “lesser”

>>14612597
based

>>14611949
>women draw themselves as hot
>men draw women as they are
>this is why men are sexist
damn this bitch is stupid lol

>>14612742
it's the other way around in this scenario

>>14612779
oh interesting, hoes really do be mad over nuffin'

>>14612341
This for the most part. Although I disagree on it being subjective.
Caravaggio's work is a masterpiece, Gentileschi's is an excellent work. I like the sense of movement in the latter, however Caravaggio does this at a much deeper level. Many great works capture the eternity of the event, and what stands out to me is the opposition of time. Holofernes is not simply being killed, he is experiencing the moment before his death and what for him must have felt a betrayal, or even shock over his foolishness. Sobriety amidst drunken loss. Judith appears with the entire weight of her act, she exists beyond the moment, in the future of what this event will mean for her people. Yet, she remains there, ever present, perhaps even sympathizing with Holofernes for what must happen. Her movement is exacting, the eyes of a surgeon who sees beyond what must be removed. She does not let the human element in, a requirement of justice, and so her very being forms of this sacrifice. It is a true image of Christian character.
Gentileschi is focused on the human qualities of the story, it is a moment of struggle and finality. The story does not flow through the image, Judith is not beautiful, rather she appears as something of a prostitute, even though her seduction was merely a trick that would disappear at the moment of killing. Most likely the feminists who are comparing these works are taken with the sense of feminine power, the depiction of woman as she descends into brutality, and the masculine qualities rising to the surface. Their identification with the work suggests that its essence was not strong enough to retain its form. Sacrifice and the return to modesty seem alien to them, a lost world. Its Christian character is not eternal, it is weakened as one memory may be exchanged for another.
This is the great tragedy of subjectivity, one can no longer sense what is essential. Paradoxically, this destroys all that one thought was secure. The pillaging that lies at the heart of the museum, the attrition of time that returns being to the moment of creation. There remain hidden works beneath canvases, buried in the walls of churches, and the means through which these are sought out says more of our relation to time than any art produced in the late modern period. Subjectivity also implies that we are forever on our way to the next festival, and the tyranny of critique suggests the extent to which art itself has been stripped of its ritual and formative qualities. Both the left and right are united in this failure.
https://youtu.be/20n3N1uhztc