/lit/ - Literature

>>14605699
Saving Normal by Alan Frances. (Former DSM writer, arguing against DSM)
Crazy Like Us by Ethan Watters (journalist documents the export of American cultural beliefs about mental illness and depression to other countries for profit)
Ben Goldacre has a lot of stuff about this too and other stuff across medicine (doctor who blogs and writes books and columns about bad science). Haven't read his Bad Pharma book but I expect it would have a chapter on antidepressants at least

>>14605699
Less specific than what you've asked for, but Foucault and Ivan Ilich are essential for critiques of medical institutions.

>>14605699
Anything by Robert Whitaker -- specifically 'Mad in America' and 'Anatomy of an Epidemic'.

https://www.madinamerica.com/

t. Someone who does not need antidepressants

>>14607009
so 20% of the population according to most shrinks these days?

>>14607009
> does not need antidepressants
dudeweed unironically works better for most people who "need" it. keep eating big pharma lies

>>14605699
I have tried xanax but i do see the appeal it just makes me hazy not pleasant it is going below thought not beyond.

I find that renouncing self and diving into ever lasting stillness of now is the most pleasant sensation

Szasz, Foucault, Deleuze.

The industry of Psychology is just a crypto-police force for enforcing the tribal will to power. If you unironically believe in any of the diagnoses given to you by a so called psychiatrist, you are simply consenting to being lobotimized by the ideology that created such systems in the first place. Anti-Depressants will not make you happy nor Amphetamines intellectual, they will turn you into a effeminate drone, incapable of any originality. Ask not for a slighter burden, but for stronger shoulders with which to lift.

Psychologizing is a self reinforcing machine of accumulated capital. Just look at all the people who visit their "therapists." Then these people recommend others, and so it progresses. More demand for therapists result and the process continues. The eschaton of psychologizing is the diagnoses of the entire human race. The goal is to change original sin from Adam to Freudian childhood, yet no Christ-figure is present. Only the endless chaos of capital. All must be diagnosed for all to consume.

anti-psychiatry is honestly based.
t. ex-soviet country where psychiatry is penitentiary and used to be applied against political prisoners specifically

>>14605699
R.D. Laing is my main man in this department. And going back a bit further, Wilhelm Reich too.

>>14607346
>More demand for therapists result and the process continues.

One of the greatest tragedies of western civilization. Our reduced capacity to connect with others has lead us to unburdening upon strangers, thinking it somehow of any benefit for someone we do not know to turn around and offer their textbook opinion on our mental state.

>>14605699
Just take your fucking meds
>>14607155
>weed works better
Before people would get diagnosed and get prescription drugs they would use any illicit drug they could get a hold on to treat their illness
Prozac whatever else is better than alcoholism or suicide

>>14607012
And the apparent rise in prescriptions is because you are all fat fucks who sit around bitching on 4chan all day
Go outside and eat your veggies

>>14605699
Foucault

It's important to keep in mind you can't abuse somebody into getting better, no matter what affliction they have

bump

>>14605699
I actually wrote an essay on Szasz a year ago. He makes some valid points but at the end of the day I'm not sure his criticisms are very useful, especially with neuroscience steadily advancing and making a more materialistic and biological understanding of psychology more useful. Since writing on Szasz's "The Myth of Mental Illness" I've only become more apprehensive to his view, but that probably has a lot to do with personal experience. After having struggles with dissociation and depressive since my early teens, and finally deciding to give SSRIs a try, my life has improved across the board.

Also I imagine medicalization is a bigger problem in nations with privatized healthcare.

>>14609932
Also I think people without much experience of antidepressants are misunderstanding what they actually do. Calling them "happy pills" is very misleading since it doesn't actually work to affect your emotional valence. It affects your motivational systems, making it easier to participate in your surroundings. SSRIs haven't made me happier in my experience, they have helped me engage in life and finding meaning in it.

>in mental hospital for bipolar early last year
>round us all up for a group session
>start repeatedly telling us to take our meds in different ways, rephrasing the sentence over and over again
>I raise my hand and ask, "Are girls socialized to wear dresses?"
>a student nurse giggles
>I escort myself out of the room

>later go to a small trial to see if I need to be court ordered to stay for XX days
>nurse says that I say inappropriate things
>judge asks her what I say
>nurse says she doesn't know what things I've said that are inappropriate or can't say them
>tfw my comments were so based that it would have probably helped my case

>>14607346
>>14608562
I cant stop thinking about how universal healthcare is going to be like voluntary imprisonment. How this contradiction resolves will be...interesting.

>>14607346
Policemen in white coats.

>>14610041
what country jesus christ what a fucking shithole when u are imprisoned for bipolar disorder

>>14610311
Nice dubs

That'd be a good title for a novel or something

>>14610353
U.S.

I was psychotic, delusional, talking to myself, manic, etc. Honestly mental hospitals are a blast.

>>14608562
Therapists who offer explicit advice are shit therapists. It's the unburdening itself which is helpful. Whether people have a reduced capacity for connection or not, this is not a new phenomenon. You people will recoil from the suggestion, but the sacrament of confession once filled a similar niche to talk therapy.

>>14608600
/thread
>>14607155
weed doesn't fundamentally change anything in your brain. That's like telling someone to jerk off to feel better. It does make you feel better but only for a short time. It's not effective treatment for major depressive disorder

>>14610957
>/thread
You clearly have never had to deal with actual medication-taking. For those of us who have actually had to sacrifice parts of ourselves for the sake of conformity, functionality, etc., it fucking sucks.

>weed doesn't fundamentally change anything in your brain
Water can still erode stone

>>14607155
Cringe bro, chemtrails

>>14611873
>You clearly have never had to deal with actual medication-taking
I have ADHD-PI, and while it wasn't easy dealing with shitty side effects like feeling like I was going to vomit my heart, finding the right pill and dose changed my life. I was always a slow mess since childhood and that 15mg of adderall made me closer to normal. My gf is treating her depression with lexapro. The first few weeks she lost her libido, felt like shit all the time, couldn't sleep at night, her entire body felt numb, all the bad side effects. But she kept taking her meds instead of giving up and falling for the "antidepressants = poison" meme, and now she's better than ever. Her libido is even higher than before the lexapro. She's no longer sad for no reason, no longer suicidal, she no longer feels sedated nor like a husk of a human being. Just man the fuck up and take your meds responsibly. If they don't work after a month, tough luck, ask for other meds. If you're truly mentally ill and want to make the best of this life you'll try all the options before giving up. If none of the clinically tested and verified drugs work for you, THEN you seek alternatives like weed and meditation

>>14612095
why do you think people, natural beings that have existed on earth for millions of years, suddenly need to take antidepressants and adderal to continue living effectively?

>>14612095
I've taken all sorts of meds since I was 14. I'm 26 now. I'm on 4 meds, soon to be 5. There was a study that found that anti-depressants are not effective and that big pharma obfuscated the numbers to push their products. It isn't a meme. It's dogshit.

>>14612128
what an incredibly retarded question. Why do you think people, natural beings that have existed on earth for millions of years, suddenly need to get vaccines, soap, shampoo, aspirin, ibuprofen, acetaminophen, seizure meds, Parkinson's meds, zantac, literally any medication? because they're fucking ill, and while the illnesses existed for millions of years we only invented solutions to them recently, which is why we can now live longer than we did millions of years ago. Do you also refuse to drive a car, take a train or go to the doctor because they didn't exist in the past?
>There was a study that found that anti-depressants are not effective and that big pharma obfuscated the numbers to push their products
ah yes, the "there was a study" reply. Why don't posts making this claim never post a link to such study? and what is the weight and trustworthiness of this study compared to the hundreds of thousands of peer reviewed studies and the consensus of an entire medical field? no, it must all be a big pharma secret and billions of doctors are in on it, even though most of them have no reason to.

>>14612135
forgot to give you your (You)>>14612201

>>14612201
Yes yes, we get it. He committed the naturalist fallacy. Just say that instead of wasting our time.

>>14612201
>no, it must all be a big pharma secret and billions of doctors are in on it

what do all of the psychologytards have to say about nearly all american mass shooters being on some type of ssri?

>>14612128
because we are living like prisoners compared to the people that have existed for those millions of years

>>14612205
Yeah thanks bud

The other anon already recommended this, but I'm currently reading Ben Goldacre's Bad Pharma and it is great. Although I wouldn't call it exactly anti-medication, it just details the massive amount of corruption in the pharmaceutical industry, and how you shouldn't blindly trust the medical field because of it, as lot of drug trials for example have been distorted by pharmaceutical companies.

>>14612217
>that's plausible to you
take your meds lad
>>14612218
correlation != causation. Many mass shooters are also 4chan users. Doesn't mean a 4chan elf is jumping into their ear and telling them they should kill everybody

>>14612201
two different posters, but i'll respond to mine, the
>incredibly retarded question
i think actually, it's quite a good question. the point in an immune system is to create anti-fragility. that is, if you scratch your arm, the skin will come back stronger. in terms of medical innovations, vaccines are probably as the greatest, they create antifragility in the body towards disease. but anti-histamines on the other hand, stop the immune system from learning how to respond to pathogens, making the body more fragile, for instance. so, it isn't as simple as whether or not 'technology' in the form of medicine is good or bad... it's a legitimate question, perhaps you've never thought about it... why do you think our current civilisation has literally masses of people taking anxiety, antidepressant, or concentration 'medicines'?

>>14612218
probably due to disinhibition

>>14612238
stop trying to solve all of the problems in the world by putting experimental chemicals into people's brains when we don't even understand what they do or how the brain works. you're one of those useful idiots who makes a fetish and a pastime out of worshiping the status quo and mainstream "consensus," like it's your goal to be the most useful idiot possible.

you are a retard too. your big proof that modern mental health is a simple one-to-one, problem-solution relation of "people are sick --> xyz cures them" is that "people have bathed for millennia --> we invent soap to allow for doubleplusgood cleaning." even if this works on a perfect analogy with brain-altering chemicals (tip: it doesn't unless you're a fucking child using cartoon logic), it STILL wouldn't prove that ALL use of brain-altering chemicals is magically good. it could still be possible, for example, that such chemicals should only be used in extreme circumstances, or it could still be possible that whole cynical profiteering industries and diseased pseudoscientific cultures could grow up around the administration of such chemicals, maybe even with good intentions at the offing.

now reply with line-by-line greentexts using more disingenuous and childlike retarded arguments about how BRAIN PILLS = SOAP, VACCINES GOOD = CHEMICALS GOOD, QED EAT CHEMICALS NOW!!!! retard.

>>14612201

psychology and psychiatry are wrapped up in 'fixing' problems, e.g. "i have an anxiety problem and society presents the image of this perfect person in front of me who is not anxious, therefore i need to be like that person at all times". the issue with bullshit like this is that you end up creating even LARGER problems to solve. that previous anxiety that was your body's first order intelligence against a potential threat is now gone, leaving your helpless or ignorant to when real problems strike. the entire field and cathedral of academics in it are basically scamming you and everybody else, trying to keep you in a just-tight enough box to function as an economic unit

>>14612238

unimpressed

>>14612270

you're the first person to admit that the drugs work at least, good job

>>14612260
>if you scratch your arm, the skin will come back stronger
that can only go so far. When you get a strep throat or congestion, the pain and effects are the same no matter how many times you get infected. Our immune systems are good but not nearly enough to survive against all disease, which is why medicine was invented... Some bacterial infections simply can't be cured without antibiotics. There's also absolutely nothing wrong with anti-histamines and your body won't become fragile from taking them, unless you're a very sheltered child who never played with dirt.
>why do you think our current civilisation has literally masses of people taking anxiety, antidepressant, or concentration 'medicines'?
for the same reason our civilization's life expectancy is higher than ever: we've finally found solutions for problems we've had for thousands if not millions of years. Of course there's also a social aspect to it, some people's depression and anxiety are caused by their environment. But that doesn't mean we should dismiss meds at all.
>>14612277
>stop trying to solve all of the problems in the world by putting experimental chemicals into people's brains when we don't even understand what they do or how the brain works
psychiatrists understand enough to prescribe them. Just because you don't know jackshit doesn't mean the field of psychiatry is just as clueless. Sure a lot of the meds are still in their very early stages but if you had cancer and all we had was an experimental cure, wouldn't you want to try it?
you're one of those useless idiots who makes a fetish and a pastime out of worshiping the contrarian bullshit they see online just to feel superior.
>it STILL wouldn't prove that ALL use of brain-altering chemicals is magically good
if you want proof check google scholar. You're the one wit the reactionary opinion that goes against the consensus of an entire medical field, you're the one with the burden of proof. You're the one with no evidence that these brain-altering chemicals don't work. Calling me a retard won't change the fact that you're talking straight out of your fat ass.
>it could still be possible that whole cynical profiteering industries and diseased pseudoscientific cultures could grow up around the administration of such chemicals
yeah it could also be possible that we live in a simulation. Very insightful, reddit. Take your fucking meds.
Take your fucking meds, speg.

>>14607346
This is nice romanticism. Too bad it’s more like we’ve created a new culture that doesn’t have any reference to the past and our behavior has yet to fully acclimate to its new environment.

>>14610365
Almost just checked myself into one, but felt like it’d be a waste of time. I’d burn the place down with what I’d have to say.

>>14612301
>psychology and psychiatry are wrapped up in 'fixing' problems, e.g. "i have an anxiety problem and society presents the image of this perfect person in front of me who is not anxious, therefore i need to be like that person at all times".
no it doesn't, thanks for wasting my time with more bullshit. This is YOUR perception of psychiatry, not what it actually is. It's not normal to suddenly feel like you're going to die when there are no dangers. It's not normal to have auditory hallucinations, to have a sense of impending doom all the time, and to have a mental breakdown every time something remotely unpleasant happens. This is what people with panic disorder go through, and meds help them live like normal human beings. If you take meds for SOCIAL anxiety that isn't really an illness and could be fixed by going outside more, or stress caused by a shitty job that could be fixed by quitting your job, that's on you. Psychiatry isn't forcing you to take meds for something as trivial as that.

>>14612218
>sad people want to kill themselves
>sad people want to kill others
>sad people take sad people pills
>omg why do people who take sad people pills want to kill themselves/other people

>>14612349
whoa, it's a wall of text interspersed with greentext, so you can disingenuously reply line-by-line to everything your interlocutors say that allows you to make an oblique sorta-but-not-really-related glib remark!

enjoy nuking your brain for the rest of your life because you were sad in your early 20s you pathetic fucking whiny faggot. just stop using your literal child-level cartoon logic arguments to convince others of it. you might actually convince someone as dumb as yourself.

>>14612372
You just proved the guy's point. Maybe you should go to a competent therapist and work through some of your problems rather than chasing a dozen more pills to do it for you, in a never-ending quest.

>>14612382
>said sad people take medication which removed the inhibition that is anhedonia and compels them to act on what they’ve continually repressed
oh man, why are these shooters all on medications which alter behavior?

>>14612383
>4 sentence reply
>it's a wall of text
ADD spanlet detected. Enjoy being a retarded reactionary faggot. Ignore the science and keep listening to 4chan.
>>14612389
>You just proved the guy's point
no I didn't, imbecile. And i know you're the even bigger retard I replied to earlier, I see the IP count hasn't changed. Go talk out of your ass on /x/

>>14612394
why are you even talking? the psychiatrists know what they're doing. are you a psychiatrist? no. stop questioning psychiatrists. they know what they're doing. that's their job, to know what they're doing. QED, trust psychiatrists.

>>14612397
>wahhh wahhhh i have a panic disorder :( i'm 23 years old and i'm sad all the time, dose me up doc! i think i have ADHD too! doc help!

absolutely pathetic, you ruin the possibility of real research into medication by using it as quick-fixes for your gay growing pains. protip: having a father and life goals other than zoomer hedonism are supposed to be the fixes for your faggy "i'm scared all the time ;_; i lack motivation to even vape!" problems, you queer little pussy.

>>14612349
nice dude, i don't really have an argument for ya, have a nice life

>>14612372
of course, there are some cases where for whatever reason, someone has developed a panic disorder that can't be immediately treated through CBT and other, more beneficial means, sure, go ahead and take medicine. but the issue is people in our culture essentially think it's 'normal', as you say, to never feel pain, or have a hard time, or have to work through difficulties. once the entire workforce is medicated, there's no need to question the culture that makes fucked up people one after the other, over and over again. Xanax is pretty much a cultural artifact at this point, but you know, don't question anything.

would you people also deny antibiotics aren't being overused? because the science is pretty clear on this. it's not a reactionary argument, it's a fact

>>14612417
xanax will go down in history as an almost unimaginable tragedy, benzos are one of the most horrific things you can get a person hooked on. i've seen so many people have their lives destroyed by long-term benzo use, and i mean perfectly above-board prescription usage. the fucking subhuman functionaries in charge of diagnosing and prescribing these things will seem like monsters in retrospect. of course nobody talks or thinks about the generation of people who were prescribed this bullshit and who now just have to live with the fallout (if they aren't dead of suicide or brain damage already), because oh well! that was yesterday! today we have a new designer drug!

and we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg. every person i know has their perfectly normal kid on some cocktail of ADHD meds, anti-anxiety drugs, antidepressants. the kid's fucking 14 year old and already into some tranny propaganda horseshit, already living a horribly unhealthy lifestyle and consuming junk food culture 24/7, but the problem is their BRAIN CHEMISTRY, as understood by a stupid cunt with a psych degree.

>>14612412
Pharmacologist here. Psychiatrists don't know shit.

>>14609956
>>14609932
MEDICATION DOES NOTHING BUT NUMB YOU TO THE PAIN. IT DISTRACTS YOU, MAKES YOU FORGOT YOUR SAD, BUT WHEN YOU REMEMBER WHY YOU WERE SAD IT CAUSES AN IMMENSE FEELING OF SHORT-LIVED DEPRESSION AND HUGE SUICIDAL URGES