/lit/ - Literature

Words so big and complex make your eyes blow out the back of your skull.

Open a dictionary, a thesaurus, and an empty journal. In the journal, begin writing out a thought. Now swap out every other word with randomly selected shit from the thesaurus and the dictionary. Congrats. You wrote your own copy of Fanged Noumena. Enjoy your pretentious gudread reviews, homo.

>>14595761
China is introducing the solution to accelerationism.
Pay close attention.

>>14596041
>t. doesn't understand poetry

Just look at his twitter shitposting adventures

>>14596461
Holy cringe.

he was a forced meme a while back. Now the spammers seem to have moved onto guenononon

he's okay. deleuze is better and laruelle's probably better than him

why do people keep posting this photoshop?

What's the difference between Land and Moldbug?

>>14597634
Levels of twitter faggotry

>>14595780
Pic related

>>14596120
lmao is that disinfectant?

>>14597749
Only gas can work now.

>>14597788
Did they take his phone?

>>14595761
do you think he's alright bros?

>>14598379
Let's hope not.
Bless Land Corona-chan.

>>14598379
He's still shitposting on twitter

>>14598407
If he had been born Aussie we would have all been saved a lot of trouble.

>>14598464
>you will never get baited into responding to an Aussie shitpost so complex and speedy that your eyes bleed

>>14596041
lmao fn is easier to read than Finnigan's Wake, if you had that much trouble with the vocabulary you are not lit

>>14595761
Land's central concept is the Outside, which is a kind of inversion of God, a telos of reality that predetermines the shape of spacetime but with drastically inhuman characteristics rather than love and grace and what have you. The closest human concept is the technological singularity, intelligence accelerating its own creation. It's called the outside because its atemporal and beyond our understanding, hence "noumena''. Land started off in the continental tradition, which means he sticks his Outside into Kant, Marx, DaG, Heidegger, etc. just to fuck around with what are essentially metaphors as Continentals love to do. His engagement with NRX is the same thing more or less, except that the game-theoretical moral nihilism of that crowd was far better suited to his techno-pessimism than progressive academia. Xenosystems archives from 2013-2014 and especially the comment section, are great fun to read through, as he threads his basic philosophical conceit into a bunch of topics the NRx guys like discussing.

Landian accelerationism is this intelligence optimization process, Land calls capitalism an instance of this, but he's not accelerating capitalism to reach socialism, like original Marxist accelerationists, his ends up in techno-singularity as I already mentioned. Humans are completely irrelevant along with all our values.

Posting rare Land

For me is maybe one of the first fully grown cyberpunk poets. I like him even if I don't agree with his vision al 100% his writtings are truly something to enjoy for mutts like myself.

I hope he is ok.

>>14599093

>>14599093
>Nick Land was a paleo-twink.
NO FUCKING WAY.
NO FUCKING WAY.

>>14599763

>>14599759
Was the CCRU a response to the Chaos Computer Club? Germans fucking with machines, the English reading the Kabalah on them? Makes sense to me.

>>14599093
and where did this file emerge from? It must be new.

>>14600323
he probably posted it, im sure he comes here

>>14600323
a couple things to note:
a reverse image search shows several copies of this image BUT those images are not as high of a resolution
this is also a picture of a picture (see thumb, edges of photo at the bottom)
this is also very likely posted by the person who took the photo of the photo, as the filename + high resolution suggests
this means the poster is probably CCRU adjacent
(hi Reza)

>>14600566
autism speaks from outside the chan and it's stunning and brave

>>14599093
>>14600566
share some CCRU stories you cunt

>>14599093
More rare Land
https://www.bitchute.com/video/20pwSTE6Lwxe/

>>14595761
loved him in Band of Brothers, I imagine his other work is pretty good

>>14595761
Start with meltdown. Time is a spell.

>>14596120
But is it not acceleration the process in which the 'process is accelereating'. That process is the solution if I'm not mistaken from the dark deleuzian standpoint in which Nick was proclaming

>>14602183
What process?

>>14602213
autismodernism

>>14602153
kek

>>14602213
Read deleuze

>>14602223
Autism is very natural and much like schizophrenia holds many secrets to the mechanics of humanity

>>14602303
Answer question.

>>14602317
I did. If you read deleuze you would know accelerating mcm' is the process in which I am referring to. It's ok dude I know deleuze is hard to read but it made sense for me when I read Nick land first then deleuze( but in reading deleuze you need to understand Marx and what he meant by capital and dialectical materialism).

>>14602372
>i read meme philosophy i'm so special

>>14602378
Ok no need to insult. I read all Western philosophy but got into land by pure accident.

>>14602383
I am only trying to help. I believe you have little understanding of this material and would rather insult insteadnof being constructive.

>>14602394
>refuses to answer question
>just trying to help

>>14602383
Is mcm really the main idea in Deleuze?

>>14602400
I answered but you need to give me more detail on what you are seeking. I explained the process so if you are just gonna be a faggot get it lit and go to pol

>>14602405
No. But it's the one from Marx in which he discribes in detail in relation to capital and schizophrenia. That is why it is essential to understand Marx first then deleuze.

>>14602405
Mcm' is the mechanics of capital. It is recursion in its finest form.

>>14602412
I thought Land surpassed Marx?

>>14602415
Okay so all Land says is that it is accelerating. Why all the hype?

>>14602419
Yes but the lib don't want to hear that lol

>>14599093
>>14600566
I saw this picture a few days ago at an academic presentation about c cru. Either the guy posts on lit or vice versa?

>>14602428
You are missing the point unfortunately. Try to understand time first in the ccru sense. The machine has to be overheat in order to short circuit.

>>14602383
Why Land over the other philosophers?

>>14602438
What is time in the ccru sense?

>>14602428
A lot of the ccru material is outside of philosophy and more in occult. But they actually tie together in the reverse theological sense. To the ccru, time is a crystalline material spell.

a c c e l e r a t e

>>14602440
Because he is trying to tell you he went to hell and back and he's trying his best right now to prevent that from happening to earth and humanity

>>14602447
>crystalline material spell
What's that mean?

>>14602450
Kek

>>14602450
mans got beheaded and then ran over jesos

>>14602454
By accelerating capital and turning earth to hell? I thought he wanted to end humanity?

>>14602456
It's hard to explain sadly. As I said it's more occult than philosophy so science will not work. You have to read occult stuff to understand and to be honest I'm just starting to understand but I have to unlearn a lot of stuff from school desu

>>14602467
That's old land friend.you have to go to hell first to realize it.

>>14602475
So he's opposed to capital now?

>>14602477
No. He is accelerating it. It is ai in the future if you have an understanding of how time works. It's a downward spiral towards singularity.

Capital is an semibiologically controlled machine that can short circuit if pushed too far.

>>14602487
How is he accelerating what is in the future? And for what purpose?

>>14602477
no

>>14602498
So what's the difference between old and new Land?

>>14602501
old nick = likes butts
new nick = doesn't like butts

>>14602492
So you can find these answers with reading Kant then land then deleuze. I want to try and explain what I know.
Time is a cycle, it's also a spell, and without time there would be no material, no mass. So time keeps happening over and over again( capitalist realism, hauntology). You can get to the teological ends of capital by understanding the mechanics( deleuze is best for that).

>>14602507
Cont.

From reading mark Fisher, you can see the nature of capital. That is why is not about the future, the future can take care of itself. It's about the past-future and the furure-past.

>>14602501
Old land was a philosopher that used the dark arts just like Lucifer to get to pure ontology if it's even possible. He went insane from drug use and broke through the spell of time for a short while. But recreating this almost killed him so he stopped.

New land is trying to fight technocapital by accelerting the machine. What this looks like irl is the philosophical foundation to the new right of the political sprectum. It is truly paradoxical so I can understand the confusion

>>14602530
But you just said he's not opposed to capital. Is this reinstating ideal capital or something?

>>14602540
Yea it's very paradoxical. Try to think of it as a computer that can't be stopped and to only way is to break it from overheating it. It's very very extreme and honestly I don't like it.

>>14602419
Deleuze surpassed Marx, Land surpassed Deleuze. do the math.

>>14602492
time isn't linear

>>14602530
>New land is trying to fight technocapital
Land is very pro capital today

GIRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARD

>>14598600
Not that it's any trouble. Just seems like some shit a preteen pseud would come up with through the assistance of a thesaurus. Unfortunately, it'd be fruitless, given that it's out of place enough to reveal just how much of a pseud the author is. It's the literary equivalent of a tryhard that didn't put much care into it past the point of jumbling in a bunch of words in hopes it'll stick.
While not difficult to understand, you can't help but think about someone who possibly just learned a bunch of these words and did their best to incorporate them in this word soup thinking they're the bees knees.

>>14602959
Then you have very little understanding of lands work especially the bridge between old and new land. Please understand evola before understanding new land and neoreaction. He is overheating technocapital as it's the only thing that has ever worked.

>>14603249
Look the words are not hard to understand if you have any sense in logic and maths. You will need to understand engineering as that's where I came from. What land is saying is very correct in the worse kind of way. Ppl are either too stupid to realize or maybe it's rokos basiklisk and if we go against we die.

>>14603638
I think you bought the Marxist kool-aid. Nick Land does not like humans

>>14603638

>>14603638
he calls us monkeys

>>14603638
I can find more if you want but if there is anything that is obvious about Nick Land is that he would rather humans die out and technocapital succeed

>>14603249
funny how more preteen pseuds with thesauruses aren't spawning their own branches of philosophy being retroactively subsumed into academia. He's linked to the birth of at least 2 major branches outside acc (spec. realism and OOO). you think the CCRU would be a dime a dozen.

I don't care about accelerationism I just care about making anime real. Where does Nick Land stand on this issue?

>>14603638
You can't find a single quote to support this idea, it's some bizarre cope from people who for some reason can't accept how edgy Land is. Land liked neoreaction because it made sense to him and fit well with his 'intelligence optimization as Outside' philosophy.

Why does land calls nrx 'accelerationism with a flat tyre'?

GIRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRD

>>14596461
he’s right tho. he doesn’t care that hes memed

>>14604191
>spec. realism and OOO
>there is a reality and we can think about it
Wow, so this is the power of runaway intelligence.

>>14605183
kek imagine believing this

GIRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARD

>>14605238
>my condescension means literally anything
wipe your ass

>>14596041
>he doesn't take acid and listen to Fanged Noumena, pretending to be a robot

guys im 24 and taking my first and ONLY *illegal* drug, ive never even done weed before, and it will be 6g of mushrooms.

how should i prepare my headspace beforehand? are there any land/acc writings to properly prepare my headspace beforehand?

>>14605262
6g is a lot to do on a first time. I'd suggest an eighth first time to at least get your feet wet

>>14605262
lmao, based psychonaught

>>14605250
>Born to Shit
>Forced to Wipe
ok ameriboomer

>>14605324
Did he die?

BATS COME FROM A CAN

THEY WERE PUT THERE BY CAPITAL

I want to become a supreme schizo and post edgy memes with the rest of you lads. Problem is I don't understand a word that this nigga is saying. What do, /lit/?

>>14605398
Just say Capital So Based over and over and add whatever prefixes you want.

Incels retroactively and teleoplexically refuted by capital.

>>14605425
https://youtu.be/pd2Gzkkwe9Q

>>14605281
>I'd suggest an eighth first time to at least get your feet wet
the thing i shold have mentioned is that i dont want to *start* taking drugs, i just want to know what it's like to completely dissolve my cemented opinion structure and then go back to life *as it was*, if that's even possible.

>>14605287
we'll see if i even make it out of low earth orbit :,)

>>14602450
fucking hell, that dude on the push bike at 8 secs.

got vanished by a sign post

Capital is Sentient

U.S.Taxpayers are paying for it all.

Paris Accord = scam (trillions)

Red Cross = scam (billions)

Foreign Aid = scam (trillions)

War = SCAM (trillions)

... ... ...on...and... .on... ... .

Who actually audits where the money actually goes?

Who actually receives...

Capital is Sentient

MCM

Follow the Petrodollars

QMQ

Qapital is Sentient

Trust the Intelligence

>>14605469
>Who actually audits where the money actually goes?
>
>Who actually receives...
the stonecutters

>>14605262
bump. someone help. this is a NICK LAND thread, one of you must have had a cosmotechnics-fueled psychadelic breakdown before

>>14597663
>Ruthlessness as kindness of the wise
I like this one.

>>14597663
>0.999 =/= 1
absolutely based. everybody knows hyperreals are the chad integer extension

What's some essential amphetamine literature besides Nick Land?

>>14605650
any and all cyberpunk. sadie plant, most def. any wolfe. norbert weiner.

>>14599746
Oh, so his work is just a hysterical reaction to Nietzsche. That's what I figured, since that's what most philosophy has been for the past century.

These cryptofaggots need to read the New Testament, or Yeats, or the Tao Te Ching, or something. The idea that the arc of history could be anything other than cyclical is retarded. You can wrap up your apocalyptic theology in as much intellectualization as you can muster, but all you will accomplish is making yourself dishonest in addition to being a coward.

Seriously, the world isn't ending. Nothing is coming for us. The floor isn't going to drop out from beneath us. Every bougie becomes hysterical when they realize that their values are fundamentally broken, but the intelligent ones are the most annoying, because they transfer their hysteria onto the fabric of reality itself, and exteriorize their personal fears into dense, barely coherent philosophical works. Then I have to be the one to sift through them, to identify for myself exactly where and why they're full of shit. It's depressing, and I wish they would stop.

>>14605262
Jesus, no. Read the Bible, or Alan Watts, or something else with good vibes. Finnegan's wake, "A commodious vicus of recirculation". This depressing end of the world shit will send you spiraling. Unless you fundamentally want to die, I guess. Then go for it.

>>14605709
>The idea that the arc of history could be anything other than cyclical is retarded.
cybernetics is inherently cyclical, that's what feedback *is*, *but* what we're error correcting to is another story.

>Seriously, the world isn't ending. Nothing is coming for us. The floor isn't going to drop out from beneath us.
Yes, the world isn't ending. Nothing is coming for us. And the floor isn't going to drop beneath us. Capital is going to continue on as it has. Technology is going to continue to advance. Computer science is going to no longer be conflated with computing (just as geometry was conflated with land surveying, given its etymology), and this methodology to deal with complexity is going to continually build. None of this is controversial

This kills the accfag
https://youtu.be/5WpehZ3dSxM

>>14605742
>Capital is going to continue on as it has.

>>14605719
>Unless you fundamentally want to die
i don't know if im quite mogged enough to be on Team Death Drive yet but i do want a good spiral. i think i can leave it safely i just want to make sure it happens

>>14605756
joy was sparked?

>>14605709
>Seriously, the world isn't ending. Nothing is coming for us.

>dude just stop being angry

Is there a book you recommend?

>>14595761
Literally the only good philosopher since Mills

>>14605881
>Mills
literally who?

>>14605889
You are a nigger

>>14605865
A Vision, by WB Yeats. Philosophical framework for existing in an eternally recurring universe.

Or just, you know, the New Testament. Jesus's entire premise is what you quoted

>>14605709
>Nothing is coming for us
It's quite cold, isn't it?

>>14605894
No s

>We must imagine the Boomers happy.
https://youtu.be/ygr5AHufBN4

>>14605450
your mond is a fragile thing anon. you can always take more drugs, you can never take less, so start slow. imo.

>>14602444
>What is time in the ccru sense?
>>14602438
please respond

>>14605709
>the world isn't ending. Nothing is coming for us
based retard

>>14605950
>you can always take more drugs, you can never take less, so start slow. imo.
are u gerardfrog? and i just want to take an amount to where nobody can say "you didnt take enough, take THIS much and you'll REALLY see such and such". i want to begin and end at the same time

>>14605942
Have your (you) you fucking degenerate

>>14605262
Lemurian Sorcery.

>>14605989
ah i remember that! i fuckin have it bookmarked i just havent read it yet. thanks anon
http://xenopraxis.net/readings/ccru_lemuriantimewar.pdf

>>14605742
I just read his essay on Nietzsche, which was actually an essay on some other guy disguised as an essay on nietzsche. Land's less dishonest than might be supposed, insofar as he's openly espousing the Thanatos as the pre-eminent drive. The real problem is that he assumes his own distaste for life is shared by everyone else, or anyone else that has any sense. He doesn't conceive of fear of death as anything other than self-deception, which is the typical arrogance of the bourgeoisie. In a way, I find him more offensive now, because he's trying to convince me to kill myself, and can't accept that I don't want to die.

>>14606032
interesting, i'd like to see someone more versed in Land than I actually make a decent reply. i don't think i can though. cheers anon

>>14605952
This. People are actually interested, accfags. Respond.

>>14605982
no but I was an active contributor to the cosmotechnic threads, I was one of several deleuzefags. I've done a lot of psychedelics before and have seen people have terrible experiences by jumping in head first without knowing what they are up for. if all you are looking for is disintegration, go for it, if you are looking to integrate these experiences into your life, be smart and start slow.

>>14606032
>he assumes his own distaste for life is shared by everyone else
This is something I've been meaning to ask. And it is a question that extends more broadly to any critical theory, left or right. Why is it that we should take the exception as the cultural standard, or even nomos of our time?

>>14605982
Much of the intensity of any psychedelic trip is accounted for in the state of your own mind when you take the drugs. I've taken two tabs of LSD and just had a good time, and I've taken one tab and gone fucking insane. More will give you stronger symptoms, but what you do with those symptoms is what matters.

I would strongly advise you to start with a standard dose. Psychs are more powerful than any other experience most people have had. It's not like being drunk or high but more, it's a whole new thing unto itself.

>>14606123
I don't think Land is talking about cultural standards but rather human nature

What can accelerationism offer me that I cannot gain from this?
https://youtu.be/EUY2kJE0AZE

>>14606100
>if all you are looking for is disintegration, go for it, if you are looking to integrate these experiences into your life, be smart and start slow.
you can't integrate disintegration into your life? what actually happens in a case like mine? i haven't heard of any testimony of someone actually losing their minds from a single trip although i did read a study from some ivy league that said they can have positive long-term effect if you start and build your way up to a large trip and then stop but that's a lot of extra steps

>>14606139
what's a standard dose?
my entire internal framework since i was a preteen has been built on the simple
>if you can't change something don't worry about it
to a neurotic, annoying end. it doesnt happen like this in sleep paralyses but im not sure if that's a similar thing. so i *feel*, however naive it sounds, like im grounded firmly in the direction of the Flow or whatnot. but i guess i cant really know that, if i did it wouldnt be the unconscious i guess

>>14606123
I don't actually think that person's in whom thanatos is more powerful than eros are the exception-- generally, among the bourgeoisie, the conscious self is subsumed in Eros, but their deepest impulses are driven by thanatos.

In essence, they feel responsible for conducting themselves with an eye to their continued existence, and ignoring the possibility of death. Death therefore becomes an escape for them, as you can see in Land.

However, bourgeois hegemony crested in the late 60's, and now I'd say the bourgeois minded make up only around 40 percent or so of the population in the US at least. But Land speaks as if they still had control, as if we were still all more or less life obsessed. He failed to witness the second coming, so to speak-- the rough beast has already slouched towards Bethlehem, or, rather, Haight-Ashbury, and now we're living in the afterglow. So he's addressing an audience which is already diminishing.

>>14604069
we ARE mutts.

>>14605490
Posting that here is asking for trouble.
This is a threat.

>>14606175
Google standard dose for mushrooms. For LSD, it's 100-150 micrograms. The site I saw for shrooms says an 1/8th of an ounce, which has been my experience as well.

I am unsure about what your symptoms indicate-- a willingness to avoid issues is generally symptomatic of a personality which feels oppressed by external circumstance. Maybe think about your internal struggle between the drives of Eros and thanatos; that severed me well in my trips.

>>14606148
there are two main catagories of "bad trip":
A) ahhhh I can't stop thinking of my dead grandmother and how I wasn't there for her in her last moments I'm a terrible person
B) ahhhh I literally can't tell where my body ends and the universe begins who am I what am I
A can be integrated fine, and can actually be a positive if you can confront it and grow from it. B (what is sometimes called "ego death" is closer to a bad dream; it makes no rational sense and your brain will actively try and erase it from your memory. First time I did salvia, I had no idea I had taken a drug and had to assume that the universe had spontaneously ended, was far "worse" of a trip than any A I've had, and I don't even remember 90% of what happened. if you are looking for disintegration (chaos, ego loss, ect.) jumping into big doses might be your best bet. If you want to learn from it, go slow. Intergrating disintegration, if it is even possible, takes a lot of time and practice.

>>14606142
Yes, but this is how I mean it. The 'cultural standard' (not a very good term but I wanted to keep it simple) is effectively a type of human nature within a particular era. Contrary to marxism, or post-marxism, one might say that accelerationism is an attempt of the bourgeoisie to reconcile with its failure to achieve the being of capital. This is clear in the similarities between libertarianism and marxism, or more radcally in the elected subsumption of the right-wing to marxist ideology (cultural marxism as unironically the founding ideas of the New Right, Gramsci etc.)
Otherwise there is acceptance, or at least ambivalence, so here the oppositional bourgeoisie appears as much an outsider as the anarchist illegalists - only with less relevance (perhaps the Tea Party as an example? domesticated criminalism). So again, in simple terms, why should we take the most extreme outsiders as the law of an era?

>>14606228
>cultural standard is effectively a type of human nature
not by any rational understanding of those concepts it isn't

>>14606228
I agree with your analysis of the accelerstionists as a saving-throw of the bourgeoisie. Well put.

>>14606210
>Google standard dose for mushrooms.
ah gotchya i thought maybe you had your personal opinion on *standard*

>a willingness to avoid issues is generally symptomatic of a personality which feels oppressed by external circumstance
ah fuck you're right, you're so right that you reminded me that i had nearly the exact same thought; that my behavior wasn't the result of pure rationalism but a coping mechanism. what's the word for this feeling?, oof, yikes, mood, etc

>>14606178
Thanks for your actual attempt at a response.
If I understand you correctly I would generally agree. There is no real opposition between antihumanism and humanism, it is simply a misunderstanding of our era, and perhaps a number of historical events that pushed the drive to understand this.
The dance of death is everywhere, and latent in many of our founding symbols/myths.
However, this is a different discussion altogether. To use a simple image of Heidegger's field path, whatever the being of our era is, what marxism and economic determinists in general take as their own symbol of human nature is those who have strayed from the path, either through stupidity or stumbling away from it in some way. This does not mean that those on the path should be seen as the whole, however, they must be considered to a large extent. Marxism seeks to eliminate the bourgeoisie (and the lumpenproletariat, which effectively destroys all of its insights into history) while 'Landianism' seeks to dekulakise even the bourgeoisie. It is a strange mix of proletarian engineering theory with Austrian economics, and as I have said above these theories are as fringe as any avant-garde or anarchist interpretation.In short, Kantian limits extended into absurdity, rationalist theories of generalised lunacy.

>>14606245
Not sure what you're trying to say. Is not even the most ridiculous attempt at art also some minor appearance of human nature? To be a bit of a dunce, pozzed art says something about our ridiculous situation, even if it is unintentional.

>>14606317
>'Landianism' seeks to dekulakise even the bourgeoisie
you lost me here; what about Land reminds you of dekulakization? also, technically all dekulaization was a dekulakization of the bourgeoise, the Kulaks were a class

>>14606350
culture and nature are antonyms, hence how we can distinguish to two mutually exclusive groups "native American" and "cultural American"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence_McKenna#Novelty_theory_and_Timewave_Zero
>Novelty theory and Timewave Zero

>Novelty theory is a pseudoscientific idea[10][11] that purports to predict the ebb and flow of novelty in the universe as an inherent quality of time, proposing that time is not a constant but has various qualities tending toward either "habit" or "novelty".[5] Habit, in this context, can be thought of as entropic, repetitious, or conservative; and novelty as creative, disjunctive, or progressive phenomena.[8] McKenna's idea was that the universe is an engine designed for the production and conservation of novelty and that as novelty increases, so does complexity. With each level of complexity achieved becoming the platform for a further ascent into complexity.[8]


>The 64 hexagrams from the King Wen sequence of the I Ching.
>The basis of the theory was originally conceived in the mid-1970s after McKenna's experiences with psilocybin mushrooms at La Chorrera in the Amazon led him to closely study the King Wen sequence of the I Ching.[5][6][27]

>In Asian Taoist philosophy the concept of opposing phenomena is represented by the yin and yang. Both are always present in everything, yet the amount of influence of each varies over time. The individual lines of the I Ching are made up of both Yin (broken lines) and Yang (solid lines).

>When examining the King Wen sequence of the 64 hexagrams, McKenna noticed a pattern. He analysed the "degree of difference" between the hexagrams in each successive pair and claimed he found a statistical anomaly, which he believed suggested that the King Wen sequence was intentionally constructed,[5] with the sequence of hexagrams ordered in a highly structured and artificial way, and that this pattern codified the nature of time's flow in the world.[28] With the degrees of difference as numerical values, McKenna worked out a mathematical wave form based on the 384 lines of change that make up the 64 hexagrams. He was able to graph the data and this became the Novelty Time Wave.[5]

>Peter J. Meyer (Peter Johann Gustav Meyer) (born 1946), in collaboration with McKenna, studied and improved the foundations of novelty theory, working out a mathematical formula and developing the Timewave Zero software (the original version of which was completed by July 1987),[86] enabling them to graph and explore its dynamics on a computer.[5][7] The graph was fractal, it exhibited a pattern in which a given small section of the wave was found to be identical in form to a larger section of the wave.[3][5] McKenna called this fractal modeling of time "temporal resonance", proposing it implied that larger intervals, occurring long ago, contained the same amount of information as shorter, more recent, intervals.[5][87] He suggested the up-and-down pattern of the wave shows an ongoing wavering between habit and novelty respectively. With each successive iteration trending, at an increasing level, towards infinite novelty. So according to novelty theory, the pattern of time itself is speeding up, with a requirement of the theory being that infinite novelty will be reached on a specific date.[3][5]

>McKenna suspected that notable events in history could be identified that would help him locate the time wave's end date[5] and attempted to find the best-fit placement when matching the graph to the data field of human history.[7] The last harmonic of the wave has a duration of 67.29 years.[88] Population growth, peak oil, and pollution statistics were some of the factors that pointed him to an early twenty-first century end date and when looking for an extremely novel event in human history as a signal that the final phase had begun McKenna picked the dropping of the atomic bomb on Hiroshima.[5][88] This worked out to the graph reaching zero in mid-November 2012. When he later discovered that the end of the 13th baktun in the Maya calendar had been correlated by Western Maya scholars as December 21, 2012,[Note a] he adopted their end date instead.[5][89][Note b]

>McKenna saw the universe, in relation to novelty theory, as having a teleological attractor at the end of time,[5] which increases interconnectedness and would eventually reach a singularity of infinite complexity. He also frequently referred to this as "the transcendental object at the end of time."[5][7] When describing this model of the universe he stated that: "The universe is not being pushed from behind. The universe is being pulled from the future toward a goal that is as inevitable as a marble reaching the bottom of a bowl when you release it up near the rim. If you do that, you know the marble will roll down the side of the bowl, down, down, down – until eventually it comes to rest at the lowest energy state, which is the bottom of the bowl. That's precisely my model of human history. I'm suggesting that the universe is pulled toward a complex attractor that exists ahead of us in time, and that our ever-accelerating speed through the phenomenal world of connectivity and novelty is based on the fact that we are now very, very close to the attractor."[90] Therefore, according to McKenna's final interpretation of the data and positioning of the graph, on December 21, 2012 we would have been in the unique position in time where maximum novelty would be experienced.[3][5][27] An event he described as a "concrescence",[12] a "tightening 'gyre'" with everything flowing together. Speculating that "when the laws of physics are obviated, the universe disappears, and what is left is the tightly bound plenum, the monad, able to express itself for itself, rather than only able to cast a shadow into physis as its reflection...It will be the entry of our species into 'hyperspace', but it will appear to be the end of physical laws, accompanied by the release of the mind into the imagination."[91]

>Novelty theory is considered to be pseudoscience.[10][11] Among the criticisms are the use of numerology to derive dates of important events in world history,[11] the arbitrary rather than calculated end date of the time wave[26] and the apparent adjustment of the eschaton from November 2012 to December 2012 in order to coincide with the Maya calendar. Other purported dates do not fit the actual time frames: the date claimed for the emergence of Homo sapiens is inaccurate by 70,000 years, and the existence of the ancient Sumer and Egyptian civilisations contradict the date he gave for the beginning of "historical time". Some projected dates have been criticised for having seemingly arbitrary labels, such as the "height of the age of mammals"[11] and McKenna's analysis of historical events has been criticised for having a eurocentric and cultural bias.[6][26]

>>14606372
Not who you're replying to, but that's not an essential truth. That's just a particular view. Culture as an expression of a type of human nature is just as valid

>>14606437
then human nature is a meaningless concept everything humans have ever and will ever do is just our nature. the term human nature becomes meaningless

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duration_(philosophy)#Responses_to_Kant_and_Zeno

>Zeno of Elea believed reality was an uncreated and indestructible immobile whole.[4] He formulated four paradoxes to present mobility as an impossibility. We can never, he said, move past a single point because each point is infinitely divisible, and it is impossible to cross an infinite space.[5] But to Bergson, the problem only arises when mobility and time, that is, duration, are mistaken for the spatial line that underlies them. Time and mobility are mistakenly treated as things, not progressions. They are treated retrospectively as a thing's spatial trajectory, which can be divided ad infinitum, whereas they are, in fact, an indivisible whole.[6]

>Bergson's response to Kant is that free will is possible within a duration within which time resides. Free will is not really a problem but merely a common confusion among philosophers caused by the immobile time of science.[7] To measure duration (durée), it must be translated into the immobile, spatial time (temps) of science, a translation of the unextended into the extended. It is through this translation that the problem of free will arises. Since space is a homogeneous, quantitative multiplicity, duration becomes juxtaposed and converted into a succession of distinct parts, one coming after the other and therefore "caused" by one another. Nothing within a duration can be the cause of anything else within it. Hence determinism, the belief everything is determined by a prior cause, is an impossibility. One must accept time as it really is through placing oneself within duration where freedom can be identified and experienced as pure mobility.[8]

>>14606361
It's a bit of a joke and I'm having a drink so it may not have been clear.
In basic terms I am saying that Landianism reduces the source of power to second-order engineers, economic interpreters. Contrary to Plato's philosopher kings we see Moldbug's air traffic controllers, and in Land this is basically just a natural function of information. In this sense those who seek a return to complete Smith's project of capital imagine mobilisation of the bourgeoisie towards economic theory in the same way that the Soviets mobilised and reordered its peasants to industrial machinery.
One can imagine Platoov's ridiculous technobiological language applied to neoliberalism. This is effectively what is happening in the economic/market crisis at eh moment. kek, this probably sounds insane but we're dealing with pretty fucked up theories to begin with.
The proletarian sacrifices his limbs, the lumpenproletarian his entire body, the bourgeosie his head. But all unto Being.

I'm certainly enjoying these acc threads much less now that I've spent some time reading, researching and thinking about accelerationism. It's become obvious that 95% of posters have no real comprehension of Land's actual argument.
>inb4 /lit/ don't read

>>14606478
well why dont u enlighten us anon, im not being ironic

>>14605865
Read the Maxims of Ptahhotep.

>>14605908
Ptahhotep did it earlier, and he did it with far more brevity, and dare I say better.

>>14606478
enlighten us then

>>14606478
this is very true and is the reason things went so far downhill from the cosmotechnic threads. most people left here are hangers on who don't actually read this stuff, and effortposts usually only get snarky reddit-style responses from anti-acc fags. this thread is one of the better ones

>>14606444
still not really getting you here. did you mean Platonov? I've never read him.

>>14606559
Yes, Platonov. I suppose, as a contrast, the western conception is that of Deleuze's body without organs, an elimination or outsourcing of mechanisms rather than their mobilisation within the body. This is perhaps why everything has been reduced to an abstract meaning, or hyperreality, yet the soviet reaction was somehow tolerable. Reverse engineering of being in the west is intolerable even to the bourgeoisie, who imagined themselves impervious to it. Strangely, they are reduced to a form of proletarianism just to maintain their culture; just as the proletariat is elevated towards bourgeois culture in order to eliminate its dangerous elements. The market as a separate economy all its own proves this division, revolutionary elements at an unseen level.
I am uncertain of your own thinking, so perhaps this is simply opposite to accelerationist ideas in many ways, making it a difficult bridge to cross.

>>14606482
>>14606487
I was going to write "I'm not here to spoon feed you, read if you want to make worthwhile contributions" but let me take a moment.

At the very least anyone who wants to contribute to acc threads should realize that there are multiple 'accelerationisms' that have nothing to do with each other. The term has a fairly long history and has been used to mean different things over the 20thC. It's really not that hard, even just to watch a few videos on youtube to understand the basics otherwise the misunderstandings multiply as the uninformed mislead each other into deeper confusion. Consider how much more useful these threads would be if people sourced quotations fromt he original texts. I don't expect 4channel to hold academic standards but we're really doing more damage than good here.

Example: Land doesn't make any 'should' arguments. He purely attempts to describe the world. It should be obvious that this makes half the posts in this thread redundant.

Consider this quote from 'Circuitries': "Long-range runaway processes are self-designing, but only in such a way that the self is perpetuated as something redesigned." If we take this suggestion seriously then all comments on the technological world by Land must be taken as provisional. Or this quote:"...cybernetics is neither a theory nor its object, but an operation with anobjective partial circuits that reiterates 'itself' in the real and machines theory through the unknown." From this its clear that the real-world processes that Land wishes to discuss are at a level not accessible to humanity in any serious way, they emerge from basic physical laws. Attempting to overcome them would be almost as futile as attempting to make Force no longer equal massXaccleration.

See how far that is from the caricature of 'make it bad so it gets good'? See how that Left's use of the term 'accelerationism' in the 20thC has zero overlap with Landian acceleration? That's what I'm talking about. For god's sake, 'Circuitries' is barely 20 pages.

>>14606721
>Land doesn't make any 'should' arguments
good point, his NRx stuff sort of crosses that line but as far as accelerationism is concerned this is very correct

>>14606721
>I'm not here to spoon feed you, read if you want to make worthwhile contributions
I'm not saying I didn't make worthwhile contributions you pompous jackass I'm just wondering what a person that comes into a thread saying
>95% of posters have no real comprehension of Land's actual argument
actually thinks. I haven't seen anyone in this thread conflate Marx's notion of acceleration with Land's, let alone 95% of people here. This all just comes off as a lot of posturing, albeit posturing I would agree with if the people of the incorrect viewpoint you are espousing actually existed as prevalently as you say they are

>>14606768
So address the points I made.

>>14606810
Not who you're responding too, but I agree that you're a pompous jackass.

It seems pretty absurd to me to claim that Land never makes any "should" statements, when his work is loaded to the rafters with deeply connotative language. When he begins an essay:

>"Will Christendom ever reap the whirlwind it has sown? That it should try to pass, without the vulnerability of interval, from a tyranny to a joke, is certainly understandable, but that its enemies should do nothing to obstruct its evasion of nemesis is more puzzling. How can there be such indifference to the decline of our inquisitors?"

One can't help but get the feeling that he is writing TOWARDS an end, namely, that we readers should force christendom to reap what it has sown. If he was merely writing diagnostically as you claim, than such language is not only needlessly inflammatory, but counterproductive.

Even if you respond that Land is employing this polemical language in an act of grand irony against the notion of taking any position at all, the idea that this should be both apparent to everyone reading him and uncontroversial is absurd.

>>14606858
>you're a pompous jackass
Obviously.

>Land never makes any "should" statements
You're right. He clearly does. I should have written that 'the core of Land's theory doesn't require teleology, only description' - that would have been more accurate.

>>14606875
Can you explain in the simplest language possible what the core of Land's theory consists of? Everyone else that does it always references half a dozen authors in the process, thereby rendering any explanation useless. If I knew I was willing to read ten books to understand what he had to say, I would have by now. But I don't know if I want to, because I don't even know what he's talking about.

>>14606894
not him but intelligence explosion as capitalism as transcendental AI as teleoplexy

>>14606875
The main problem is that his descriptions are reflective of his desires instead of reality. Some of it is accurate(what he takes from others) but for example his obsession with the primacy of intelligence is pure projection. He indirectly admits as much in his earlier work, that part of his project is to will the future into being. By positing this possible future and injecting it into the public consciousnesses he makes it more likely. Capital is not really sentient, but if it does become so he will retroactively become a prophet.

Its almost like he forgot what he was doing, or his twitter is entirely performance to generate views with outrage.

>>14606917
>transcendental AI as teleoplexy

Not simple language. Also, what's an intelligence explosion?

>>14606810
>So address the points I made.
I was asking, in good faith, what actually made you say
>95% of posters have no real comprehension of Land's actual argument
to which you explained some shit I learned within 5 minutes of a cosmotech thread about 2 years ago. I don't disagree with *that* general sentiment, that acc can refer to many things, but I don't see how it relates to any configuration of 95% of posters here.

>>14606930
>his descriptions are reflective of his desires instead of reality
this is a low tier criticism that could be aimed at literally any philosophy ever, the point of contention should always be whether the theory is true/valid not whether it corresponds to the person who wrote its ideals

>>14606894
Okay. But be aware you're volunteering to be shortchanged.

The core of Land's accelerationist thesis is that:
1) the physical world and its laws create an emergent logic that drives reality in a specific direction

This allows us to derive a few further suggestions that, informed by observation, may or may not be accurate:
2) the thrust of these laws is towards a form of efficient intelligence generation
3) these laws are, in the majority, outside of the reach of humanity to influence
4) have no concern for what humanity thinks is 'right' or 'wrong'
5) accelerated through their own processes

In academic language you could say:
>>14606894
intelligence explosion as capitalism as transcendental AI as teleoplexy

In rhetorical language you could say:
future ai is coming back to ensure its creation

There's also a bunch of argumentation about time but i'll leave it out.

>>14606946
>I don't see how it relates to any configuration of 95% of posters here
I retract.

>>14606953
Ok. Does future AI coming back involve literal time travel, or is this some sort of metaphor?

And what is meant by efficient intelligence generation? The creation of conscious entities, and or the intensification of consciousness within entities?

>>14606940
lol man just read a book; if you don't understand the word transcendental you need to read Kant; if you don't know the term intelligence explosion you are way behind (the term has been in use sonce the 60's), google "technological singularity"; you obviously wouldn't understand teleoplexy without reading Teleoplexy but since the other stuff is straightforward I thought it might help connecting it to Land's terminology

>>14606950
He pretends to be anti-anthropocentric and then assumes intelligence is primary. The same observations he makes for self-organization could equally apply to entropy. But then he gets teleological and assumes intelligence has an alignment at all, because hes mad that he didn't get rewards for being 120 IQ midwit. Neochina is autofellatio, a desired future.

>>14606960
>I retract.
Fair. And to that response I have no choice but to retract calling you a pompous jackass (since I meant it as a deep character flaw, not a temporary condition). I will now also retract myself back to mmore important matters,

>GIRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARD >FRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOG

Nick Land = Rokos Basalisk + Pascals Wager + Chaos Magic + Situationism
Its wishful thinking mixed with performance art. He is a dada poet.

>>14606968
>time travel
No, Land takes seriously the idea that all 'times' are part of a single unit and therefore the 'past' and 'future' are already not absent.

>intelligence generation
Just what it sounds like. The systems science 'cybernetics' from the 60s is the basis that Land builds from.

>>14606981
intelligence isn't an anthropocentric idea, intelligence pre-dates humans and will post-date humans as well
>The same observations he makes for self-organization could equally apply to entropy
he's written quite a bit on entropy and how it functions in the theory though
https://jacobitemag.com/2019/07/15/disintegration/
seems like a pretty basic misreading to assume intelligence is something human just because humans have some liminal forms of intelligence

>>14606974
I can't be sure whether any of that is worth the effort unless I can secure a description of what I'm getting into in conventional language.

For example, if someone asked what Nietzsche is about, I'd say:
"Human beings can only achieve great things by undergoing suffering. We justify undergoing this suffering through what he calls Values, which are essentially relations between one's means and one's ends. Christianity created a value in our society which said that true things are preferable to false. We therefore began searching for the ultimate truth, that is, the end which justifies every other end; as in, 'suffer because x. Why? Because y.' and so on, until you reach the bottom. Nietzsche believes that we have recently discovered that there is no bottom, and that we therefore need to find some way to stop ourselves from valuing truth, because otherwise we won't be willing to suffer and improve ourselves"

This type of explanation doesn't require any technical knowledge or awareness of any other authors, and can therefore be used to gauge one's interest in learning more.

>>14607003
Yeah I've read that.

I don't know how someone could read Nick and say that its purely descriptive.

Its like listening to someone in constant pain argue for anti-natalism.

>>14606218
ah fuck i missed your response here.
>your brain will actively try and erase it from your memory
so it'll just all be a waste of money then.
>If you want to learn from it, go slow.
i know ur right here. ill internalize this as i sit in my room with a loaded gun and see if it sticks, thanks for the reply

>>14595761
>>14595761
>>14595761
>>14595761
Listen. I just bought this book and I'm about to start reading it tomorrow. Did I make a mistake? That's all I want to know.

>>14607002
Cybernetics, as in, attaching robot arms to people?

What does all times being part of the same unit mean? It sounds like this is essential to the whole thing, if "AI from the future" are a key part of the one sentence description.

If we're going to prevent mass misunderstanding of these things in these threads, they need to be reducible to terms which don't incorporate any specialist knowledge whatsoever. Otherwise, getting angry at people for failing to read Deleuze and god knows who else will never accomplish anything.

>>14607000
>CaPiTaL iS SeNtIenT

>>14607029
>Cybernetics
not that anon but as i understand it cybernetics is the application of control systems to areas other than electronics. control systems are essentially big feedback loops which naturally error correct. for example, there's a famous video about how missles work "the missle knows where it is by knowing where it isn't" that's a control system. a missle defense system takes the measured output and compares it to where it should be, and than corrects that through a system of equations, and then measures again and compares, then corrects, then corrects, in a loop until a desired accuracy is reached.

the heating in your house is a control system. if the measured output isnt within a certain distance of the reference input it will correct itself.

>>14607016
that's an okay interpretation of tGoM but it isn't really a discription of Neitszches work as a whole (you skipped his metaphysical wagers, his idea of ubermench/true philosophers, the will, ect.). also, Neitszche is by far one of the easiest philosophers to understand at a semantic level, unlike 90% of philosophy, he doesn't rely on previous terminology. if you are interested in discussing things in "conventional language", philosophy might not be your thing. if you just want it explained as simply as possible, watch the rundown.
https://youtu.be/lrOVKHg_PJQ

>>14607029
>Cybernetics, as in, attaching robot arms to people?
anon, I...

>>14607048
I'd argue that "find a way to stop valuing truth" is as good a summary of Zarathustra as any.

All of these other items are important, but peripheral to his greatest concerns, and as such don't need to be part of a basic language description

>>14607053
I'm making the point that when you use that word, that's what most people think of, so if you're going to explain this guy, use a word which does not have a set of incorrect connotations that are more common than the correct ones.

>>14596461
It's true. No one gives a shit about /lit/'s opinions on anything. All anyone cares about is /pol/, the rest is irrelevant. 4chan is itself on a downward spiral, all the creative people are gone, leaving only the ones to spew pepe and wojak memes as posters.

>>14607069
if someone doesn't know that cybernetics is a thing they need a lot more handholding before they make it to Nick Land. this is like picking up a book on trigonometry and claiming all you need to understand it is what that funny two line symbol is they keep using, "="

>>14607061
the will is quite central to most interpretations on Neech, and his metaphysical wagers are some of his most well known concepts (e.g. the eternal return of the same)

>>14607088
Then don't get mad when 90% of anons in your nick land threads don't understand what the hell you're talking about. You can't have it both ways, either you can develop an explanation of him simple enough that people can read it early in the thread and get it, or you can only have good discussions in private groups.

>>14607099
But if you had to summarize his philosophical "project", as in, "read him because he explains x", are the will and eternal recurrence the main things, or are they positioned in relation to his overriding concern and therefore not easily explicable independent of it?

>>14607100
I only get mad when people critiquing Nick Land out themselves for not having read a single relevant thing. personally I could care less if 4chan threads cater to the mentally inept, if you don't know what you are talking about, don't talk. there is plenty of introductory content out there is you don't know what cybernetics means, asking people on a Russian basket weaving forum is at the bottom of the list.

>>14607113
conceptually, the will to power comes before the transvaluation of values if that is what you are asking

>>14607027
It is, without doubt, the first cyberpunk poetry book, as is. Riped.

>>14607129
just define it you useless rotten lazy nigger, just fucking define it or ill kill you

>>14607129
It's only natural that uninformed people will begin responding to a philosopher who gets a thread or five every single day. It's only natural that a bunch of people without anything valuable to say will comment in these threads, since evidently to understand Land you have to read Kant, Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, Deleuze, whoever wrote about cybernetics, and God knows what else.

Why even come into these threads expecting anything else? It sounds like you won't be satisfied in conversation with anybody that hasn't done a doctoral thesis on the guy, given that you seem to have no interest in explaining him to the less informed. So why are you here? This isn't like a thread about a novel, where people have read it or not, or even about an author. It's a thread about a marginalized philosopher who is evidently inextricable from a dozen different poorly defined fields of study. Expecting anybody to have anything valuable to say is absurd. I proposed, by way of solution, that people explain what he's about in a digestible enough way that blatant innacuracy can be sifted out, and only one person attempted this in any seriousness, and didn't really accomplish it.

Allow me to ask again: Why are you here, then?

>>14607221
define what, cybernetics? you might as well start with wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybernetics

>>14607229
Deleuze was a cybernetician, that's the model of cybernetics Land uses

>>14607229
>you seem to have no interest in explaining him to the less informed
also, literally all I have done itt and what I am doing right now

>>14607188
Okay

>>14607245
I couldn't find the word "cybernetics" anywhere in the "philosophy" section of his Wikipedia page. Not denying that you're right, just not sure that it's an apparent fact rather than a position taken by some or another group. Is that how he described himself?

>>14607221
>>14606721
>cybernetics is neither a theory nor its object, but an operation with anobjective partial circuits that reiterates 'itself' in the real and machines theory through the unknown.

>>14607268
https://jacobitemag.com/2017/05/25/a-quick-and-dirty-introduction-to-accelerationism/

>>14605982
6g is a lot to the point that you may get diminishing returns on the experience. Just like drinking an excess of coffee may not necessarily increase performance much more but instead present you with side effects you must deal with. The anon who suggested 3.5g was on point here. That's plenty enough, on an empty stomach, in a room with little stimulation.

Some months later if you decide, 'that wasn't enough', go back and do your 6g. I understand wanting to move past the psychic exploration and not be mired in a cycle of repeated self dosing, but in this case you should not reach for the end at the beginning.

>>14607078
Nothing has been more consistent on 4chan than fags complaining that the golden age is over

t. Arrived in 2007

>>14605375

>>14596120
nerve gas

>>14595761
He follows me on Twitter. We're very good friends.

>>14602450
This is what accelerationists actually believe

>>14597634
Almost everything. Moldbug is 100% rationalist and would probably hate Land.

>>14609003
Land supposedly wants to work with Moldbug after reading his conception of the Cathedral.

>>14607762
kek

>>14604090
How is capitalism anything but monkey bulshit?

Why do trannies like accelerationism so much?

>>14609618
society rejected them so its natural they want revenge

>>14609003
Wrong. They are exactly the same apart from stylistic differences.

>>14609003
they are close

>>14609003
i mean as far as i know they aren't total strangers and don't hate eachother.. here's land retweeting the bug a week or two ago

ANY COSMOTECERS IN THE BUILDING???

>>14610379
That's not Moldbug, he doesn't use twitter. He's been totally mia since 2014 apart from those two essays on that new site last year.

Moldbug is coming at the issue from a quite different perspective than Land. They both like libertarian analysis of capitalism but Moldbug praises monarchy and systems similar to monarchy, whereas Land likes the competitive aspect of republican structures. Moldbug wants to create law and order to allow human flourishing(of those he thinks deserve it, ie right side of the bell curve), Land want to allow techno-capitalism to accelerate unimpeded, creating a singularity that exterminates humanity, because he thinks the only thing of value in existence is intelligence(for Land capitalism simply is this self-accelerating intelligence). They both adhere to Moldbug's concept of the Cathedral, which is Progressivism as a pernicious memeplex descended from puritan Christianity, that took over most of the world through the universities, state, press, etc. The whole NRx scene was just a bunch of guys who agreed that Progressives are insane retards and older forms of government/culture were more sensible, but they all disagree about what would work better, and what they even value

>>14610572
>That's not Moldbug, he doesn't use twitter. He's been totally mia since 2014 apart from those two essays on that new site last year.
o thats embarrassing thanks for clearing that up

the rest of that was interesting and unusually easy to read and understand

>>14610561
ye

>>14610725
THERES A PULSE!

>>14610725
what the fuck is that picture

>>14611012
your future waifu

>>14611012
It's the anime equivalent of a fursuit

this is now an aesthetic schizopost thread

The continuum of situationist performance culminates in the alienation of alienation itself; the goal of finding a home becomes the form of the home itself, although it is clear to the rest of us that this is not even a house. The endgame of modernity is the erosion of civil society towards a hyper-individualized state regulated to the teeth. Capitalism seeks individuality as it seeks total assimilation, each individual is a customer, a consumer, but never a producer. Production has left the stratosphere. Time compresses on us, and we sigh with relief.

>>14611121
ok. ok. ok. now we're cooking with gas.

>>14602128
Thanks

I wonder how far we can push this whole experiment before something gives, and what is it that will give? Of course, revolution still hangs in the background, a specter with no body to possess. The revolutionary subject is absent today. If it breaks like this, it breaks for the state, and the only outcome that adds up is fascism. The fascist pole is reterritorialization, but in this way it only serves as pseudorevolution, or rearticulation. Capitalism can stand to break this way, because in this way capitalism is preserved. Capitalism is put "to work for the people", an inane overcoding of the processes pointed towards the autonomy of production. Where capitalism is working, technocapital is slithering out of its box. Fascism was never anything more than a reaction to anti-capitalism, aided and cloaked in its own anti-capitalist facade. A fascist is one who (unwittingly or not) capitulated their humanity to the inhuman movement of history.

>>14595761

>>14602994
I wish

>>14611236
It does you a disservice to simplify Fascism that way. It was a unique blend of anti-materialism, reactionary cultural ideals, and mixed economic structures. Its view of capitalism was mostly positive but nowhere full libertarian. The Fascist ideology envisioned the state as something organic, which the individual would give themselves over to in order to fulfill their potential. This conception was specifically opposed to materialist views whether liberal or socialist, that saw man's economic status as the central fact of his existence. It thought that every nation had its own characteristics that required a solution unique to it, and you couldn't homogenize all of humanity into some one simple prescription, rather individual men would engage with history as it happened. Socialists can't engage with this set of ideas at all because they simply disagree that anything is more important than economic structures. There is no debate to be had with such fundamentally different worldviews.

This is all quite clearly laid out in the Doctrine of Fascism

>>14611283
The Doctrine of Fascism is the perfect example of the fascist facade. Penned by Gentile and attributed to Mussolini, the Doctrine lays itself out as anti-capitalist, anti-individualist, and yet pro-democratic (insofar as that democracy is both centralized and authoritarian). In practice, it always leans the other way. Democratic practice is strictly discounted insofar as it is positioned towards anti-capitalist and anti-individualist notions. Germany's GDP went through the roof, and the individual freedoms of citizens within Germany were lauded and even propagandized against the Allies.

>>14611346
forgot the aesthetics

>>14611346
It doesn't pretend to be democratic though, it has a strictly aristocratic notion of the leaders of society acting benevolently towards the lower classes. It justifies all this with its anti-materialist stance, prioritizing the spirit of a people that is made manifest by the organic whole of the state, no matter which section of society you belong to.

>>14604273
You’re in luck

>>14611357
did you not read it before you cited it?

>DEFINITION OF FASCISM AS REAL DEMOCRACY

>But if democracy be understood as meaning a regime in which the masses are not driven back to the margin of the State, and then the writer of these pages has already defined Fascism as an organized, centralized, authoritarian democracy.

>>14611383
> Fascism is therefore opposed to that form of democracy which equates a nation to the majority,
You are right I have to admit, but it's such obvious sophistic redefinition that it barely counts.

>>14611411
I mean, sort of my whole point, it's a sophistic redefinition of capitulation to the movement of history

>>14605425
That’s the right idea. Keep deterritorializing

>>14595761
ok so i just read lemurian time war. is it real? like was that all real?did borroughs like thinking about lemurs?

>>14611420
I don't agree exactly. It wasn't just subservience to capitalism, it was genuinely a bit of a tamper on its acceleration and culturally it was quite distinct from what ended up happening in the liberal capitalist countries. Any pretensions towards being the 'real democracy' or whatever are obvious rhetorical bullshit, but Fascism was a distinct thing, not just capitalism masquerading as something else, or at the very least it was a different enough form that it deserves to be distinguished. Other countries also reacted negatively to the idea of socialism but they didn't become Fascist.

>>14611433
1987 was the year in which Burroughs visited the Duke University Lemur Conservation Center, – he remarks that: “At sight of the Black Lemur, with round red eyes and a little red tongue protruding, the writer experiences a delight that is almost painful” (WL248).

>>14611454
It isn't simply "subservience to capitalism" though. It is, on the surface, an anti-capitalist philosophy, but it only ends up preserving capitalism. Socialism does this too (look at China) but at least they are open about their capitulation to the movement of history, the fascist capitulate while pretending to be a reaction against it (again, capitulation to the movement of history, not capitalism, although obviously a major element in the movement of history is capitalism)

>>14611512
Is it even logically possible to not be part of 'the movement of history'

>>14611420
>>14611454
>>14611512
yawn guys if ur gonna continue this at least post some cool aesthetics

>>14611527
only for the schizo

>>14611528
sorry anon

>>14611512
In fact I think the Fascist emphasis on marrying revolution with reaction is an admittance of their being part of the movement of history. If you are going to accuse them of dishonesty I think it would be in their pretending to be 'anti-materialist'. All 20th century attempts to repudiate materialism have been basically farcical, outside of like, living in a monastery in the woods.

>>14611555
how does living in a monastery in the woods repudiate materialism? materialism doesn't mean "likes material things", it's an ontological position about the nature of substance

Lil Dicky is the new Bataille prove me wrong

wait... so wats it like to be a lemur.... ? how did Captain Mission find out?

>>14611562
What I meant is that no large scale social movement managed to come close to reverting to traditional forms or creating proper new ones, the only people practicing genuinely non-materialist lives were recluses. There were some stirrings in India and in Russia that I know of but they were either stamped out or came to nothing.

You don't need to literally live in a monastery, but that is where those sorts of people tend to end up(that was always sort of true anyway).

>>14611593
>non-materialist lives
I still think you are using this term in the colloquial sense rather than the philosophic one. Whether you want to revert to traditional forms or creating proper new forms has nothing to do with whether you are materialist, idealist, dualist, compatibilist, ect.

>>14611577
Hehe

>>14606218
I don't use marijuana because even just a small amount sends me into a paranoid psychosis. But from reading your posts it seems like what I experienced was actually ego death, but I just wasn't prepared for it. Now I'm curious about using marijuana and psychedelics to that effect, any recommendations to put myself into a good headspace so the experience is enjoyable?

>>14611605
I think it obviously does. If you're not larping, the belief in nonmaterial reality will have an enormous impact on your behavior.

>>14611581
TIME IS A BOURGEOISIE TRICK

LEMURS ARE IMMORTAL

>>14611735
AHHHHHHHH I SAW THE LEMUR IN ITS NATURAL HABITAT IM GOING INSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANE

>>14611680
explain why all the most influential idealists argued in favour of state power (Plato, Kant, Hegel, ect.)

>>14611677
it is impossible to reach ego death from smoking pot, most people won't even get there on 6g's of mushrooms

>>14610572
Quality and interesting post

>>14612420
I got a very strong psychotic episode on pot and what >>14611677 is saying is true. Maybe, as you say, is not get Ego Death, but is a very good approximation. Unpleasant, but similar.

>>14613154
if you can remember your name, what country you are in, that you did drugs, ect. you did not experience ego death. I would even go so far as to say if you can see things (real things) you didn't reach ego death

>>14610572
Quality post. Translated and saved.

>>14607221
This is pretty cringe my nigger

>>14602994
>>14605166
>>14605248
jesus christ that is the saddest goddamn thing i've ever seen

schizoposting saved this thread

>>14605490
All systems report

Intelligence is the theft of time

Sentience emission exchange

Eyes on the water

8,621

NeoChina arrives from theft

Watch Terminator 2

Future proves past

Qapital is Sentient

WWGQWG1

>>14595761
>So what's the deal with this Nick Land guy?
To many drugs, then edgy faggots online jumped on bored. He thinks capitalism is an AI. Like John C. Lilly's idea of the SSE

>>14613174
Yeah I think people underestimate what a true ego death is like, I took 600 uq once and got to the point of hallucinating that I was living the lives of a bunch of people I knew, but even then I don’t think I got real ego death since I could remember my name and life besides during some of the more intense thought loops.

I don’t use pysches anymore really, I have no revelations anymore and they are pretty emotionally involving. They were fun when I was 17 and had no clue at all about life though. Didn’t get a whole lot more out of it other than respecting other people more and learning to mind my own business and not look down on others so much since free will doesn’t really exist lmao.

>>Trump has access to the looking glass, sort of a time machine but not really a time machine.

Think something like a warehouse with 100,000 HDD's containing every single recorded action of every single human being via the E ch E lon data harvesting network, now combine that with a warehouse with 100,000 high end GPU's funneling all their processing power into a single computer that can calculate every possible action/non-action using all the data from the HDD warehouse, with a predictability rate that's very accurate at 90-95%

Now combine all that shit above with a high end oculus rift VR unit that's like a full-body suit on a 3-D treadmill and you basically have something like a time machine, but obviously you can't interact and change events, but you can basically observe future events to nearly perfect accuracy. Imagine the things you could do with that capability? Maybe become president and save humanity from annihilation i dunno...

>>14614138

>>14611555
You don't have to become an ascetic to reject having wealth be the central consideration in your definition of self and of your relations with others

>>14611593
This is why you have to reject universalist egalitarianism and materialism in their entireties, since trying to halt the extension of equality or shifting of emphasis away from God at any given arbitrary point is to try and build on sand; the trend is always going to be towards the logical extremes of those notions, universal equality and the complete rejection of spirituality; this is why "conservatives always lose" and Whig history appears validated, because "progressive vs conservative" inside the context of accepting these two notions is just a difference of degree rather than substance

>>14610572
It's not that "Land likes the competitive aspect of republican structures", they are inherently anti-competitive in fact. But Moldbug returned to Monarchy as he figured it's the most competitive form of government, and Land agrees I think, but disagrees with the romanticism that comes with praising pre-modern politics. Which is where the patchwork comes, and governments-as-corporations (I really recommend googling the history/ontology of corporations, they are like mini-governments, but in a clear chain-of-command relationship with the government that creates them rather than parallel to them in a Cathedral fashion of obscured power).

Think Rockefeller/Think tanks/Woke capital in general VS British East India Company.

>>14611433
It's a huge rabbithole. I wasted a lot of time so I'm gonna say that it's not real, but pretends to be to make itself manifest into reality. The CCRU experimented a lot with occult, the numogram/hyperstition is a clusterfuck I haven't fully decoded yet. Hopefully some enlightened anon pops up.

>>14615846
http://www.xenosystems.net/casino-royale/
>Perhaps the first thing to note is that, even though Outside in adopts the anti-monarchist position in this dispute, it finds the Anomaly UK description of a future Britain remarkably attractive, and — without any hesitation — a vast improvement upon the present dismal state of that country’s political arrangements. In addition, there is not a single objection to the monarchist idea, among the ten listed by Anissimov, that we find even slightly persuasive. If these were the reasons to refuse monarchy government, any suggestion of republican sentiment would strike us as an obnoxious perversion. Our dissatisfaction with the monarchist solution has other grounds.

-
The Patchwork is yet another layer of liberal-type competition, but Land specifically prefers republics to monarchies even within individual states, and he gives actual historical examples:
> In particular, it raises the question why the model of the Dutch Republic (1581-1795) was unable to offer a template for constitutional government of effective relevance beyond the Anglosphere. From the perspective of constitutional republicanism, the limited influence of the Dutch example marks a fatal historical bifurcation, exposing the European peoples to a calamitous bi-polar struggle between monarchical and democratic forces (from which our present ruin was hatched). It is also immediately evident from this perspective that the emergence of advanced capitalistic economic organization is inextricable from the propagation of the Dutch model (transplanted into the UK by the Glorious Revolution of 1688, and from there to the Anglophone New World).

>>14615846
I think Moldbug's association with Monarchy is overstated. He's a neocameralist, not a monarchist, after all. A different sort of absolutist, if you will

>>14615934
Leaving aside the value of neocameralism, Moldbug does prefer Monarchy to Republics. He sees a constitutional monarchy as nothing but the slow descent into eventual democracy and tyranny. He and Land are opposed about the Glorious Revolution for this reason, you will never find Moldbug praising something our historians refer to as a revolution.

>>14615962
Something that Moldbug has said which has stuck with me was, to paraphrase, "Monarchies are like family businesses. They work as small businesses but don't scale efficiently to the size of large corporations"
Admittedly he wants a patchwork of small-buisness sized states anyways and his preference for Monarchy over republics I will concede.
Nonetheless, I feel the spirit of UR was always to engineer a new ideology using old blue prints, but never to copy them. I think that, for all his Jacobite sympathies, he would never advocate actually reinstating the Stuarts in this day and age based on his Formalist positions on ownership. So he wouldn't prescribe reviving monarchies and he wouldn't prescribe making new ones when we could instead start joint-stock corporations
Hoppe is in the same boat here in that he explicitly prefers monarchy over what we have but is ultimately a Libertarian, not a Monarchist

>>14615996
Patchwork begs the question from Moldbug's own formula 'sovereignty is conserved'. What authority maintains the universal right of exit and prevents agglomeration of city states into an empire?

Not to mention that sovereignty has never in history actually resided in one man's hands. The balance of powers always adds to 1, but it's always divided.

>>14616038
>What authority maintains the universal right of exit and prevents agglomeration of city states into an empire?

not the same anon but this question is similar to something i wanted to ask regarding Patchwork

he stated he wanted city-states, but he also expressed that he wanted the return of classical international law which expressed that the conflict of two nation should be resolved between them and not some third party (like present day is)

it´s a matter of time, one (or more) city-states devolves into a small country, later a big one and can exponentially exhert power rendering the concept of Patchwork useless in the long run

>>14602128
go back

>>14616091
Patchwork was my least favorite of Moldbug's theories. I feel political centralization and decentralization is ultimately a product of technology more than anything. Gunpowder, perhaps, ended the feudal system more than anything.
The world does seem to be decentralizing over time however. The number of countries doubled last century. Land has said some things to this effect, claiming AI drones and missiles could allow military power to reconsolidate out of the hands of the people and reenable smaller sovereignities.

>>14615934
Isn't neocameralism just corporate government? Aren't corporations just mini-monarchies?

>>14616251
In a corporation Sovereignty is held by the shareholders, who profit from but do not run the organization. They can also buy and sell that sovereignty in the form of stocks. The CEO is more of a public servant than the personification of the company itself, like a king would be

>>14616366
boy do i have a redpill for you
http://surplus-value.org/readings/supply-chains/ciepley-corporations.pdf
tldr what you just said applies only to an ontologically raped conception of corporations that only exists in liberalism, corporations themselves are a monarchist invention and cannot really exist in liberalism without said modifications

>>14616384
Interesting article, will read later thanks