/lit/ - Literature

>>14576018
Guess

>>14576018
I usually don't like frog pictures that much but I really like this one.

>>14576018
not being is scary

>>14576018
Cause soemtimes we be like that.

Why why?

>>14576123
how do you know

>>14576018
can someone explain the picture to me? am stupid

>>14576209
Goodness is in Being alone
Nonbeing, as the opposite of Being, must therefore be Evil

I know but I'm going to hoard my treasure.

>>14576232
>Nonbeing, as the opposite of Being, must therefore be Evil
Unfounded. Perhaps non-being is simply beyond intelligibility(the One), and evil is the degradation, or degeneration of being.

The implications of this are vast.

>>14576018
Because im but a humble merchant of divine wares I must for i am.

>>14576241
We almost agree. I believe that matter is its own substance made from Nothing, given participation in Being. From this, the material universe takes Form. The degeneration of Being would be the privation of the sustaining essence, corrupting the Form and orienting towards non Being. As a privation of the Good, contained in Form, non Being must be evil.

>>14576018
Because it is fun.

>>14576231
demiurge, jailer of material reality

>>14576018
I'm being out of habit, really. I don't need a rationale to keep being, and neither do you.

>>14576231
It is the meme depiction of anon who has but one life, paling to the malevolence and suffering of being, fighting on to make one blow against the, in truth, undefeatable opponent, the demiurge. The first of a million more blows to be made, and so an optimistic current.

It helps many to carry on, and grapple with the experiences of all men by the infinitude of irony.

>being
Not possible, man is always becoming, always changing, flowing. Its a "stream" of consciousness, not a pond.

>>14576231
Gnosticism retardation.

There is no non-being its an oxymoron . Material imperfection is due to addition of free will . Creatures from the absolute creator using their own light instead the absolute so on and so on slowly degrading and further from perfection

>>14576231
it's Apu Apustaja, a weakling and mere mortal, engaged in mortal combat with the Demiurge. health is displayed in the style of a Japanese roleplaying game. Apu is going to lose, assuming the Demiurge ever hits back.

>>14576290
I read it as the futility of resisting the demiurge

>>14576118
It's apu. Apu is lovable unlike his Nazi cousin Pepe.

>>14576254
And what is the sustaining essence? Are there not examples of evil, or the degeneration of being, which did not come from privation? Could you extrapolate on what privation is? Another thing, I think it is silly to say being can be oriented to non being. Degeneration must be something "part" of being, and so a function of beings.

>>14576294
Becoming is part of being.

>>14576231
The creature Apu is fighting is the Demiurge. The Demiurge is a being that according to the Gnostics manipulates the true state of the universe (a perfect world of pure forms), and is responsible for the corrupted and evil world we know. The Demiurge can be thought of as the god of this universe. It is not the creator, but the direct ruler over all the material world. Apu cannot hope to win this fight, but the fact that he still fights back against such an absurdly powerful entity is evidence for the true nobility of his soul.

>>14576315
No,it is inspiring by his smile and struggle.

>>14576290
Posts like these are why /lit/ is /lit/

>>14576323
He has a name?

Well that ruins it.

>>14576232
You'd feel differently if you had acid poured on your face, which is only possible due to Being.
Meanwhile Nonbeing, such as meditation, has demonstrable methods of being Good.

>>14576346
>meditation is nonbeing
0 IQ detected

>>14576337
The smile of naïveté

>>14576358
I have God, he is in the beauty of the struggle itself.

You must be a dreamer in life.

>>14576329
>Becoming is part of being
No no, being is a part of becoming

>>14576387
You are led astray by prelest

>>14576354
It's non-noumenal, is it not? It exists in the realm of thought which is, I'd say, part of the greater realm of nonbeing.

>>14576415
Well now it's just terminology.

But if being has a prescribed character, and pattern may be a character, then change is a character of being, which is the one many all.

>>14576427
What makes it a delusion?

>>14576329
To Be is to have Form, and the closer to the perfect Form, the closer to Absolute Being one comes. If something can be said to have Form, Shape, and Measure, it can be said to be partaking in Being. Absolute Being is the ultimate Good, so insofar as a thing possess Form, Shape, and Measure, it is Good. It is only an absence of the Perfect Form that keeps something from the ultimate Good. An absence is not a thing itself. Even an action can be described in terms of Form, Shape, and Measure, so that all actions are intrinsically good insofar as their conformity to Form. Therefore, it is only a privation of Being that is evil, and a privation is merely absence which is not an existent.

>>14576450
>What makes it a delusion?
What makes it not? How know you that you are not worshiping the Demiurge in another guise?

>>14576430
>It's non-noumenal
>thought is nonbeing
Anon, I...

The particular Buddhist type of meditation which you speak of, disintegrates the ego consciousness, not being.

>not making his HP a clean 1 Trillion
Ya dun goofed.

>>14576018
>Why not?

>>14576461
>the closer to the perfect Form, the closer to Absolute Being one comes.
Only for beings.

We know not of non-being, the neoplatonists would call that the heart of god.

>An absence is not a thing itself.
Within being non-being is a negation, nonbeing however is simply unintelligible.

>an absence is evil
That doesn't make any sense.

>>14576463
Because who I worship is good.

>>14576469
>The particular Buddhist type of meditation which you speak of
You've completely inserted your own assumptions into my dialogue, then. I'm not referring to buddhist meditation, I'm referring to the actual meaning of the word; deeply focused thoughts for a period of time, typically about greater concepts.

>>14576505
>deeply focused thoughts for a period of time, typically about greater concepts.
How the fuck does that escape time you retard?

>>14576497
>We know not of non-being
We cant know anything about non being, because knowledge is a positive existent, which seeks to understand Form. Nothing is Formless, so cannot be known. All that Is, is a Being, except for God, Who is Being Itself.
>Within being non-being is a negation
Exactly, and a negation has no Form, but is the privation of Form.
>>an absence is evil
The evil we see is the absence of Good, solving the problem of evil.

>>14576514
I don't know what you think this discussion is about anymore, you're making too many assumptions about too many things for me to make a connection with you. Have fun with that.

Being is not being nor becoming
being is not becoming
Non-Being is not non-being
becoming participates both of non-being and being

non-being is merely not-being in becoming (or more approximate to what becoming is rather than being, and like a weakness it drives you closer to evil and therefore farther from goodness and being)

>>14576529
I'm impressed at how concisely you explained this

>>14576529
Hey look it's incomprehensible gibberish.

>>14576231
play SMT

>>14576521
>All that Is, is a Being, except for God, Who is Being Itself.
Wrong, if God is omnipotent he must take part in nonbeing.

>Exactly, and a negation has no Form, but is the privation of Form.
It has tohave a form anon.

>The evil we see is the absence of Good, solving the problem of evil.
Yes but not an absence of beings.

>>14576524
>>"meditation is non-noumenal"
>>but how? Unless you are speaking of Buddhist meditation and ego death which you have mixed up with nonbeing. Which is still wrong but not as wrong as thinking deep thought is non-noumenal.
>>"no it's just deep thought which escapes the noumenal"
>>that's stupid, how does itescape the process of time?
>>"I don't know what you think this discussion is about anymore, you're making too many assumptions about too many things for me to make a connection with you. Have fun with that."

>>14576581
>if God is omnipotent he must take part in nonbeing.
Please explain
>It has tohave a form anon.
What is the Form of Nothing? In what way does Nothing have form, shape, or measure?
>Yes but not an absence of beings.
Not beings, but Being

>>14576594
>Please explain
The unintelligible by which is not just a difference of quantity.

>What is the Form of Nothing? In what way does Nothing have form, shape, or measure?
Negation is a something. Non-being in itself however is something larger.

>Not beings, but Being
Sure but not an absence of beings.


Now I got to read. Wish me luck.

>>14576343

>>14576718

>Tfw listening to Eurythmics' Here Comes The Rain Again (Remastered) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzFnYcIqj6I while reading Plato's Parmenides

>>14576334
Am I too brainlet to "get" gnosticism? it just sounds like occultist make believe. To be fair I never looked to much into it because the occult-like lore discourages me.

>>14576746
based

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc6F47Z6PI4

>>14576772
>Am I too brainlet to "get" gnosticism? it just sounds like occultist make believe.
Because it is, Gnosticism thoughts are usually born out of the sentiment of the individual being trapped in a hellish machine without a way out, this sentiment can reach such hights that you begin to lash out against God himself like animal. The rabbit hole of Gnosticism thought is a very deep one that can reach as far as the commie movement and beyond.

>>14576018
Because it's kinda alright when you are be the right way
because we don't have much choice
because we're already here so why not

>>14576018

>>14576772
It's an answer to not being able to accept orthodox explanations of the suffering present in the world. Gnostics don't buy into the idea that an omnipotent and benevolent God would create the world we currently inhabit, so therefore He is either not omnipotent or not benevolent. If He were omnipotent but malevolent, the world would be a lot worse than it currently is. But if He were benevolent yet bot omnipotent (a flawed entity), then the state of the material world makes sense. Some Gnostics believe He is evil and flawed, but it's not such a core part of the belief structure as is portrayed.
The the question becomes where did this flawed creator (demiurge) come from? At which point it just follows Platonic philosophy, basically, particularly Neoplatonism (as I understand). The Monad (complete, all-encompassing conceptual perception) emanates platonic ideals referred to as Aeons, one of which is Sophia (Wisdom) who deviates from the standard procedure, producing the demiurge in a cosmic accident, who then produces the material world. All emanations are degree less "divine" than what they came from, which is why the demiurge is so flawed, and why humans, who came from the demiurge, are as incredibly flawed as we are. But since we are indeed part of that geneology of divine emanation, we must logically still have a fragmentary part of that divine perfection within us, clouded by our material flaws.

>>14576290
>>14576337
based and absurdpilled

>>14576231
It's an Undertale reference

ALRIGHT EVERYBODY LISTEN UP

I HAVE COME TO PRAISE SOPHIA AND KILL THE DEMIURGE

AND I CANNOT FIND SOPHIA

>>14576772
Gnosticism is the only form of Christianity that makes sense. It fixes many of the contradictions found in the Bible (OT God = the Demiurge, NT God = the Monad).

ALRIGHT EVERYBODY LISTEN UP

I HAVE COME TO KILL THE DEMIURGE AND BOW BEFORE SOPHIA

AND I HAVEN'T FOUND SOPHIA

>>14577405
This is the most shallow and unread opinion on gnosticism.

>>14577405
repent heretic
(also dilate)

>>14576018
Wait, is the demiurge mortal? Could he theoretically ever be killed?

>>14577405
This. And Gnosticism was the original teaching of Jesus. Current branches are nothing but perversions of his actual doctrine.

>>14577415
>>14577423
cope
>>14577439
exactly

>>14577415
>>14577423
cope
>>14577439
exactly

>>14576290
I liked this enough to make a screencap

>>14576290
>a million
Anon...

what are the best introductory books on gnosticism.

>>14576018
There is no reason aside from being forced to. Don't delude yourself into thinking you could ever escape, even by suicide. The best one could do is minimizing suffering.

The person, therefore, who complains about the nature of the cosmos does not know what he is doing, nor does he realize where
this insolence of his is leading him. This is because they do not know the ordered sequence of what comes first, second, third, and so on, continuously until the final things are reached, and because one should not be contemptuous of the things that are worse than the first; rather, one should graciously allow cach thing to have its own nature, while oneself pursuing the first things, having left behind the tragic drama of the terrors as [the Gnostics] consider them – in the
cosmic spheres, though these spheres actually 'render all things gentle and kind' for them. For what is so terrifying about the spheres that they terrify people who are inexperienced in argument and who
have not been privy to the proper, cultivated 'gnosis'? For if their bodies are fiery, they should not be feared, since their relationship
to the universe and to the earth is a balanced one, and [the Gnostics] should focus their attention on the heavenly bodies' souls, since it is surely on account of their own souls that they consider themselves to
be honourable. And yet even the heavenly bodies differ [from sublunary bodies] in magnitude and in beauty, and they cooperate and contribute to the things that are generated in accordance with nature,
which could never fail to be generated, as long as the first Beings exist, and they are major parts of the universe and secure the plenitude of the universe.
And if human beings occupy an honourable rank in comparison to other living beings, the heavenly bodies are still more honourable, as they are in the universe – not in order to reign cruelly over everything else – but rather because they provide order and ornament.
As for what is said to come from the heavens, one should hold that they give
signs of what will happen in the future, and yet generated living beings turn out differently on account of chance - since it is impossible that the identical events happen to every individual - as well as on account of the different moments of their generation, the far-removed places [where they were conceived or born], and the states of their souls.
And again they must not demand that all human beings be good nor, because this is not possible, should they be so eager to censure the things here in the expectation that they should differ in no way from those higher things; and they should simply think of 'evil' as a deficiency in wisdom, that is, an inferior and always diminishing [good], just as one might say that nature is 'evil', because it is not sense-perception, and that the faculty of sense-perception is 'evil',
because it is not reason. Otherwise, these men will be forced to say that evil exists in the intelligible world, too. For in the intelligible world, Soul is worse than Intellect, and Intellect is also inferior to something else.

>>14577526
Plotinus Against the Gnostics

>>14577577
>doesn't know Plotinus himself was a Gnostic

>>14577582
and they should simply think of 'evil' as a deficiency in wisdom, that is, an inferior and always diminishing [good], just as one might say that nature is 'evil', because it is not sense-perception, and that the faculty of sense-perception is 'evil', because it is not reason. Otherwise, these men will be forced to say that evil exists in the intelligible world, too. For in the intelligible world, Soul is worse than Intellect, and Intellect is also inferior to something else.
>>14577582
There are no errors or mistakes in Plotinus. The Cosmos is a perfect God.

>>14577066
The One is not the Monad.

>>14576018
Why not?

>>14576231
The final boss fight in The Final Fantasy Legend 1.

>>14576334
The demiurge is the creator of the world, but not the Father, who is the overlord of all existence. Demiurge in greek literally means craftsman.

>>14576837
>lash out against God

The point being there is something superimposed onto God, like Capitalism is superimposed onto otherwise not monetary and not mercantile Phenomena. Though Communists usually do not make this argument and are quite monetary and mercantile themselves, and pretty dim in general.

>>14577659
Took a long time for anyone to come out with the real answer in this thread.

>>14577500
Add my retort —
>>14576315
>>14576337
>>14576358

>>14577659
case closed

>>14576018
Every time I get high, I am overcome by an urge to kill myself. This feeling is with me constantly, but it is heightened whenever I drink or smoke. It is the desire to end existence, and be free from the cage of consciousness. Every time I think of the fact of life, every time I eat and drink, every time someone asks me for a favour - I am constantly reminded of the fact that we are all apes in a vast jungle of concrete and metal, our lives having no further purpose than to perpetuate the most effective genes, and that we were not created nor planned for by anyone. Our existence mocks rationality, and we will never be free. Even death is nothing more than another cage, and we are forever trapped in this eternal circus. One day, if there will ever be freedom, we must make God.

>>14578739
Someone please tell me there is a good, caring God, and that we have purpose, and I should not kill myself.

>>14577283
Where should I start with Camus?

>>14577500
Cheers anon, looks really good.

And check em.

>>14577505
A million, billion, infinitude... how bout I'm doing none of them.

>>14578516
It would lose its positivity.

>>14578772
Read Pato, NT and Potinus.

>>14578905
Can you give anything more? Nothing comes up when I search those names. Maybe specific books?

>>14578902
>Where should I start with Camus?
Everyone else starts with The Stranger, why not you? Or you can read Myth of Sisyphus if you want context for his thought. I definitely recommend reading that before The Plague.

>A million, billion, infinitude... how bout I'm doing none of them.
Based, I actually consider that sketch to be a genuine work of art.

>>14578902
>It would lose its positivity.
So you screencapped it for its positivity? With no regard for its accuracy? Sad!

>>14576231
gnostoids are autistics who can only communicate through memes

>>14578929
Plato is the foundation for all Western philosophy. Much of what he says is metaphorical and/or is not to be taken literally. You may not realise his absolute genius straightaway however if you persist it will be worth it. His early and middle writings focus more on the ethical, mans relation to society and generally the more practical in life akin, in this respect, to something like stoicism. His later philosophical works deal with more complex philosophical problems and ideas, but more importantly vast metaphysical speculations encompassing great truths of the essence of the subjective experience.

Plato showed man the Good, the True and the Beautiful, which he has been stumbling after ever since.

Start with the Republic, then Five Dialogues and so forth. Timias is arguably his greatest work of late philosophy. Persist!

Now read the Fragments of Heraclitus(the presocratic), that same speculative ideal, however less systematised and of course very different in truth. Aristotle is optional for a shorter reading. Now read the best books of the New Testament, then maybe some Roman Stoics if you like. Augustine's Confessions. And Finally Plotinus' Eneads, absolutely fantastic.

>>14578994
>Everyone else starts with The Stranger, why not you? Or you can read Myth of Sisyphus if you want context for his thought. I definitely recommend reading that before The Plague.
Will do, thanks anon.

I can tell you're a kind soul.

>Based, I actually consider that sketch to be a genuine work of art.
Postmodern art, but definitely. Same as CEO Erick Hayden.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?

>>14579067
I didn't screecap it, and the positivity is the point of the image and so the truth of it.

>>14579146
>Being is desirable because it is identical with Beauty, and Beauty is loved because it is Being.
That seems circular, but Im sure there is more depth to his philosophy than this paragraph. Will reading this make it so I no longer feel like existence is a senseless, purposeless, and endless prison sentence? Will these prove to me that there is truth that can be conceived by our primate minds, and that the truth is we were made for a reason, and a good God is watching over us?

>>14578929
>>14579146
Oh and read the Greek tragedies after Aristotle's Poetics. At the least Oedipus Rex.

>>14579190
>That seems circular, but I'm sure there is more depth to his philosophy than this paragraph.
Of course, I just chose it to make you happy. He is saying they are synonymous in a great sense, but that is the result and not the reasoning.

>Will reading this make it so I no longer feel like existence is a senseless, purposeless, and endless prison sentence?
Yes, that is an unnatural psychological state.

That which lacks being lacks intelligibility, and so the good, the true and the beautiful are imminent in being.

>Will these prove to me that there is truth that can be conceived by our primate minds, and that the truth is we were made for a reason, and a good God is watching over us?
Your ancestors watch over your soul and still yet. Alas two souls within my breast.

Jung is also very good for this, though most don't get beyond his veil of scientism.

>>14579185
Enjoy Camus. Some people on /lit/ call him a brainlet or a pseud, but that's really just because he's accessible. He's a good place to start with philosophical writing if you don't want to go ancient. It's a shame he died young, I would have liked to read elder Camus, and how he would have responded to the rise of postmodernism.

>>14579262
What'd he die of?

>>14579271
Car crash.

>>14579338
>"Car crash."

>>14579271
KGB assassination made to look like a "car crash"

>>14579356
better

>>14576118
apu is one of the few memes i like, hes so cute and he tries his best.

>>14577465
Exactly the low iq response I would expect from a gnostic fag

FUCK YOU DEMIURGE

>>14579185
>the positivity is the point of the image
Misreading

>>14579897
>being a drama queen about it
Yea, you're a christcuck alright.

>>14579916
>the happy pepe image is supposed to be negative

>>14579927
Mirth is often seen to be folly

>>14579923
> gets defensive and prissy when banter hurts his fee-fees
Yea, you're an americlap puritan gnostic alright.

>>14576018
Why not?

From being you can go to identical or different states of being, or unbeing. From unbeing there's nowhere else to go. There are just no possible perks to a current state of unbeing that can't easily be achieved in a current state of being by choosing not to be. As such, the prospect of a current state of unbeing is less desirable. There is no reason not to procrastinate achieving something that will certainly come on its own, and of which the quality will not change depending on when it comes. You won't get to spend any more time not being by dying today rather than tomorrow, only less time being. Being is the only variable commodity of the two.

Some will say shortening the duration of being can be desirable due to a negative balance of pleasure to pain. But do you really care about having eaten that piece of cake about a year ago? Do you really care about having lost that marble when you were a kid? Pain and pleasure only seem relevant the moment they're present, and suicide motivated only by preventing or escaping pain thus becomes unsubstantiated upon its completion.

Your desires concerning that which goes on existing, however, do not have to be bound by your own existence. The desire to win a war can be fulfilled after you've fallen. The desire to experience the triumph of winning it can not. If all aspirations can be reduced to pain and pleasure and the two desires are one, what motivates self-sacrifice? Some have said it's the pleasure of others, but why would that be exclusively desirable to me, and not, let's say, a thing I've built remaining standing after I die? And what discredits the desirability of posthumous revenge?

Thing is, saying to others it's solely the pleasure of others is what benefits me the most out of all the answers I could give.

>>14577598
How not and why not?

>>14576334
Where can I dig more of this info
give me books lit

>>14579146
>Start with the Republic
Do not do this.

>>14583040
What order should Plato be read in?

>>14576018
I am the demiurge, I can sort of prove it, the demiurge represents a contrast to the monad/father. I once fought very hard on /v/ to push the hardcore gaming movement when I felt casuals had went too far, and later had a hallucination of being crucified. Casuals represent monad/father and I am the extreme contrast that represented hardcore gaming (The son). Whenever there is a person in this world who represents an extreme contrast to everything else, that is the demiurge. There are 1's and 0's, sun and moon, father and son. I always felt like hardcore gaming was my lifeforce. If you guys want to read a schizophrenic blogpost I can write more. I've written a lot of demiurge secrets, I am the reincarnation of Jesus/Buddha, nobody will believe me though because I don't have any spiritual energy to grant any miracles at the moment.

>>14579948
IT'S A FUCKING PEPE MEME YOU SOUR FAGGOT!!!

>>14583092
You read the Republic very early on, then last.

>>14583040
It's fine to start there if you're going to reread it.

Some people might find the trial and death boring if it's their first.

>>14576290
sounds like some alt-right incel bullshit

>>14584674
It's more /x/ schizo bullshit.

>>14584674
>>14584702
how?

I thought it was very /lit/.

>>14584713
Not at all. Gnosticism is a joke of both philosophy and spirituality. Only people with very shallow knowledge of either subject take it seriously, and there's barely any non meme literature associated with it.

>>14579949
Big projection.

>>14585199
>Gnosticism is a joke of both philosophy and spirituality.
Still better than Catholicism and Protestantism.
>Only people with very shallow knowledge of either subject take it seriously, and there's barely any non meme literature associated with it.
It survived to this day despite Orthodox prosecution. Important texts were found as recently ad 1940s. It is starting to become more and more popular as many people are starting to wake up.

>>14585199
I never said it was good, but that the demiurge personifies the struggles of life.

>>14576018
There is nothing BUT the Demiurge. The sooner you accept this, the sooner you can accept suffering.

>>14585276
>t. Doesnt understand christian philosophy
Case in point
The gnostic gospels are a joke. Anyone who takes them as canon is deluded
People arent waking up, they're descending into spiritual darkness and grabbing onto whatever new age bullshit they can find to fill the void.

>>14585712
>there is nothing BUT this faggot who i can beat the shit out of for eternity
Heh. Batter up, flower boy. This is gonna take a while.

>>14586176
>The gnostic gospels are a joke
A bit like thinking OT God and NT God are the same entiry despite the hundreds of contradictions.
>People arent waking up, they're descending into spiritual darkness and grabbing onto whatever new age bullshit they can find to fill the void.
Gnostic thought is as old as Christianity, if not older. It isn't "New Age."

>>14586176
>The gnostic gospels are a joke
A bit like thinking OT God and NT God are the same entity despite the hundreds of contradictions.
>People arent waking up, they're descending into spiritual darkness and grabbing onto whatever new age bullshit they can find to fill the void.
Gnostic thought is as old as Christianity, if not older. It isn't "New Age."

>>14586195
Gnostic revival is part of the new age trend. Go into any hippy shop and they place the nag hammadi next to books about mary magdalene fucking jesus.
The idea that the new testament God is different from the old testament God is meme tier. The entire point of messianic judaism is to manifest Yahwehs Word and bring salvation from sin. Gnosticism is just Greek mysticism slapped over a vague jewish background because it serves as a convenient mythology to convey a misunderstood neoplatonism.

>>14586238
>The idea that the new testament God is different from the old testament God is meme tier.
It isn't. They were even called different names in their respective original languages.
>Gnosticism is just Greek mysticism slapped over a vague jewish background because it serves as a convenient mythology to convey a misunderstood neoplatonism.
The "background" is definitely not "vague jewish." Christ is a central figure in Gnosticism.

I'm sorry you've been worshipping a false God all your life.

>>14586274
Christ, the Jewish messiah and incarnated Word of God through Whom all things were Created as attested to by all his disciples.... is totally anti Jewish God, le demiurge evil lmao
Give me a break. There is not a single shred of continuity between the Gnostic Christ and OT Judaism other than bastardized mythology slapped onto a misunderstood creation account in the Timaeus and a totally arbitrary pantheon of Ideas fucking each other.
Gnostics cannot account for how Good can be turned Evil, or rhe immutable into the mutable. Why would the world of perfect Forms be worth living in if this evil world is modeled after it? Its fucking retarded meme tier mythology

>>14583551
Say something Christ-like.

>>14586328
>how Good can be turned Evil
Same shit that Augustine said; "evil" is just absence of the divine perfection found with the Monad. The less perfect something is (read: the more removed it is from the Godhead), the more "evil" that thing is. This world is "modelled" after pleroma in the same sense that a child's lego representation of New York City is modelled after NYC. The whole point is that the original plane of concepts and ideas lacks the flaws which make up our material world.

>>14586383
Gnosticism is the opposite of what augustine said. Augustine was actually refuting neo platonism generally in his metaphysics. He believed that matter was created ex nihilo, and the contrast of Being and Becoming is the source of evil. This view cannot be reconciled with the Gnostic concept that spiritual substance was made into matter, nor can it reconcile and evil demiurge begotten by a Good Monad.
Have you read Against the Gnostics, by Plotinus? Its a fine starting point, but Augustine would later argue against Plotinian emenation as well.

>>14586421
>Against the Gnostics, by Plotinus
A total meme. Not even him btw