/lit/ - Literature

People here are generally socially alienated zoomers/Millennials and zoomers/Millennials tend to be non-religious, therefore they latch onto religion out of spite and contrarianism

>>14564228
atheism is a midwit filter

>>14564238
Explain yourself?

>LARPing?
Yes.
It's just newest smarty pants escape from the dead end of nihilism. Where as genX chose to accept it wtih melancholy, genY probably didn't even get there but just consoom, genZ has to go somewhere else to be special boys

>>14564235
dumbass

Contrary to the self hating projections of the average 4chan user, yes there are people that actually have some sort of belief through which they live their life. It only makes sense that people who read more are going to be more devout about their value structure, no matter what they believe, hence the religious posters. I wouldn't imply that this is some holy place though, far from it.

>>14564228

/lit/ doesnt believe in christianity, /lit/ believes in new age guenon/evola nonsense because theyre suburbanities that didnt grow up with a culture.

>>14564228
I can't speak for everyone else here, but over the past few years I've developed a new found spirituality and felt pushed towards Christianity. After reading Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis, I made up my mind. I'm still trying to decide which denomination I'd like to be a part of.

>>14564228
I think a part of it is that /lit/ is often centered around the "classics", so wether they read them or just read a passage in their intro to western thought class, they are exposed to a good amount of christian (or neoplatonist, or whathaveyou) and christian adjacent literature, which then may give them a predilection to religion. I know that is the general trend I followed.

>>14564228
Atheism is for redditors and faggots.

>>14564228
response to being force fed the cult of science

100:6.6.One of the most amazing earmarks of religious living is that dynamic and sublime peace, that peace which passes all human understanding, that cosmic poise which betokens the absence of all doubt and turmoil. Such levels of spiritual stability are immune to disappointment. Such religionists are like the Apostle Paul, who said: "I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else shall be able to separate us from the love of God."

100:6.7.There is a sense of security, associated with the realization of triumphing glory, resident in the consciousness of the religionist who has grasped the reality of the Supreme, and who pursues the goal of the Ultimate.

>>14564280
>/pol/ack LARPs as a Christian despite being a bigot with violent fantasies
Jesus would be disappointed.

>>14564281
>When you're being pulled to one of the extremes, you push yourself to the other one.
I guess, that does make sense.

>>14564283
>at this moment I am euphoric

>>14564228
/lit/fags are generally too intelligent and philosophical (though majority midwits) to either consoom or just be apathetic to morality and metaphysical questions like normies or a lot of people on other boards who more obsess over their field or interest.
As such, many people are forced to adopt some sort of ostensibly internally consistent code of ethics, whether it's Guenonfags, Nietzscheans, or militant nihilism. Christianity, however, is the creed with the longest tradition, most internal variance, and greatest number of intellectuals throughout history who have written expounding their beliefs in the greatest scale with the greatest beauty. As such, for a Westerner, it remains a top option for when they are deprogrammed from NPC apathy to moral questions.
t. fitlit

>>14564288
You're the one who is assuming he is a /pol/ack or has violent fantasies or is bigoted against anything but redditors.

>>14564260
Literally me

They think it's a suitable bulwark against rapacious all-devouring technoscience.

>>14564235
This. It's plain as day to see.

>>14564288
Jesus fucking hates faggots. The idea that Jesus was some peace loving hippy that "totally loves everyone no matter who they are hehe" is a modern distortion created by progressives to justify their faggotry.

>>14564339
Spoken like someone who has never read the Bible.

>>14564316
This basically. Most people with a passing interest in idealism find themselves relating to christian stuff at least in passing.

>>14564315
144:5.69.Our all-faithful Source and all-powerful Center,
144:5.70.Reverent and holy be the name of your all-gracious Son.
144:5.71.Your bounties and your blessings have descended upon us,
144:5.72.Thus empowering us to perform your will and execute your bidding.
144:5.73.Give us moment by moment the sustenance of the tree of life;
144:5.74.Refresh us day by day with the living waters of the river thereof.
144:5.75.Step by step lead us out of darkness and into the divine light.
144:5.76.Renew our minds by the transformations of the indwelling spirit,
144:5.77.And when the mortal end shall finally come upon us,
144:5.78.Receive us to yourself and send us forth in eternity.
144:5.79.Crown us with celestial diadems of fruitful service,
144:5.80.And we shall glorify the Father, the Son, and the Holy Influence.
144:5.81.Even so, throughout a universe without end.

>>14564342
i don't know when or how "love the sinner, hate the sin" turned into "love the sin and the sinner" but i strongly suspect you've never read it yourself

>>14564246
Aggressive atheism is midwit tier, at the very least. Religion has a very important role in society, as it gives people purpose and acts as a social glue. It gives people higher purpose and a sense of community. Social cohesion is given by community ritual and identity. If people lack a higher purpose and are left to their own devices, society begins to decay, as no one feels held to a metaphysical standard.
>but you don’t religion for that
No, you don’t. But most people don’t have the agency or drive to find something to take its place. Don’t project your agency onto others. Most people don’t give a shit about philosophy, theirs is memetic and that’s why religion is important
>you can have morality without religion
You can, but without a metaphysical hierarchy all things become relative. With relativistic thought comes permissiveness and apathy.
>the church doesn’t/didn’t provide social cohesion
You’re on 4chan. You’re likely alienated already in your own right for whatever reason. That doesn’t mean the church doesn’t provide the service to others
>but muh scientific truth
How is destroying a person’s ontological axis beneficial to them? Do you really think that housewife is going to contribute to science because suddenly she realized Jesus is a myth? No. She’ll become embittered and cynical.
>but muh religion bad
Everything is bad depending on how you look at it. But the need for a higher power is palpable. That’s why in AA they tell you to find one immediately.
>but muh Christianity bad at least
Christianity caught on because Christ embodies agape love. He’s the anthropomorphic essence of it. Agape love is extremely important to society. Not in the faggy love everyone way, that’s a corruption of the original teaching. No. Be willing to sacrifice yourself for those that you love. Not necessarily in the mortal sense, but in every sense. Sacrifice your body through work for your family. Sacrifice your desires to help fulfill the desires of others. Sacrifice your time to reach a goal larger than yourself. Plant a tree that you will never see grow so that your grandchildren may rest in its shade. That’s agape love, and that’s what made Christ different and ultimately made his message so powerful.

And no, I’m not religious and I don’t believe in god. Not in the sense most people do. But to not recognize the benefits religion brings to society is something only a midwit does.

>>14564379
>36 “Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?” 37 He said to him, “You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the greatest and the first commandment. 39 The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.

Last time I checked, you don't love someone by bullying them into suicide or marginalizing them.

>>14564228
Most of them don't actually believe in any of it, but LARPing as a Christian is required for fitting in with your /pol/ friends.

>>14564380
We're on the same page. I'm sure everyone realises the importance of religion. I made the OP, thinking most of /lit/ had absolute belief in god.

I'm an atheist but I love pretending to be religious because I get a lot of (You) from asspained midwits.

>>14564380
>Aggressive atheism is midwit tier, at the very least. Religion has a very important role in society,
So you are religious only for practical reasons, and dare call other mitwit. Nohow does it follow from having morals and axiomatic values to being religious; you peabrains seem to never understand this.
I first also had disdain for "aggresive" atheism, until you realize that they have done the necessary work breaking the way against superstition. I'm actually glad that they are the laying the arguments so I don't have waste my time with such nonsense.

>>14564566
>So you are religious only for practical reasons
You didn't read my entire post.
>I first also had disdain for "aggresive" atheism, until you realize that they have done the necessary work breaking the way against superstition
Superstition has a place within society. I don't care about some atheistic "I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE" idealistic utopia. That's not how the world works, and it's not how social creatures operate. Humans are not linear systems, and it is better to teach metaphysics in the form of religious myth than to expect everyone to have the intellectual capacity to form a meaningful and coherent ideological existence on their own.

>>14564228
Larping as a Christian? It's not that hard to be a Christian OP. Recognize your sin, try and live in the way of Christ, repent. I don't know how genuine the rest of this board is in their belief in Christ, but I take mine seriously. I see Christian theologian larping pretty often if that's what you mean? It takes at least 10 years of studying to even be DECENT at apologetics and most people here just parrot their favorite commentaries without actually understanding the framework of the argument.

>>14564619
If it were socially necessary explain China.

>>14564520
So, you're calling yourself a midwit?

>>14564228
I think this is quite natural. I can’t imagine how you can read more than 100 books and remain a spunky Netflix-consooming materialist.

>>14564397
What does Jesus say to the woman accused of adultery? He doesn't say, "go and continue being a hoe," he says "go and sin no more." Living a life based on the teachings of Christ means that yes, you live with love for your fellow man, but it doesn't mean you tolerate their sin and pretend everything is a-ok.

I don't want to make a thread on this but what is the most accurate translation for the New Testament? As in the closest to the original Hebrew as possible. Preferably in French but I'll take English.

>>14564712
I'm pretty sure the original language for the new testament is ancient greek

>>14564235
there was a poll recently and most people here aren't religious. It's just that christLARPers are extremely vocal proselytizers who will spam the board and every thread with their religious dogma. you can't blame them too much though, it is simply their nature.

>>14564367
Whats the rundown on this meme book

>>14564744
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wf21UbsdJ4

>>14564737
A poll Is not mandatory

>>14564728
Really? I heard the Greek translations from back then weren’t very accurate still. I don’t really know if this is true.

>>14564629
A nation where children are ran over in the street without regard, and the individual is devoid of soul.
If you consider moral bankruptcy to be a valid social system, then by all mean, China is a successful society.

I was there. I saw it. Bifröst

>>14564342
>Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
>For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

>>14564856
Jerome apparently thought so since he went back to the Hebrew when translating the Vulgate. A lot of the translation differences between the Vulgate and the Septuagint seem to be more a matter of opinion though, since in a lot of spots the meaning of the original Hebrew is rather unclear(compare for instance Exodus 22:18 in the Vulgate and Septuagint,) which is why most modern translators refer to versions in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek and Latin, among others.

I miss 8ch /christian/
so that's my new home

>>14564228
In a word: signalling.

>>14564228
Fuck religion

>>14564380
i never understood why some people thought they needed "a higher power" or some kind of higher power. Personally i like to own myself but everyone to his/her own

>>14564246
not starting your own esoteric christian cult in 2020 you failed at life

>>14564228
Not really sure. It's odd, it's like they can't understand that things of great moral, cultural, and historical value are happening all around them. Something written about the current world that is read in 2000 years would completely eclipse most of the classic philosophical and religious stuff people on this board love so much. Maybe we're seeing a self fulfilling prophecy, people are criticizing the modern world for the ways that it has failed them personally so you get a group of like minded people looking to the past. Thing is, the modern world hasn't failed structurally so this board comes off as pretty weird.

>>14564969
Holy based...
Fuck god, jesus, the “virgin” mary, muhammad and the holy ghost too

>>14565015
forgot the burning bush

telling yourself you're saved is an easy way of hiding from the harsh glare of History which will not reflect favorably on anons under most foreseeable circumstances

>>14565009
Do you seriously think works of the past aren't of worth in the present? The point is obviously finding meaning and contextualization for the present through past works. You can't have an understanding or engage with the present in an informational intellectual void.

>>14564342
>sounds like you haven't either fedora lord
Luke 22:36

>>14564247
Gen Y is actively buttmad at religion because we were so obsessed with the gay movement and "love is love" propaganda. Gen Z isn't old enough to be "killing the church" it's gen y that has not returned to the church after having their first children like prior generations. Gen Z's return to the church remains to be seen if it pans out or not.

>>14565040
Sort of? I think biology provides the lions share of context. I think that's why old works can be relate-able even though lots of things are quite different, they were produced by the same kind of animal. Take cave painting for an extreme example. An image of a hunt might have carried important instructions at one point, but it's more of a historical curiosity today. It has value but I'd argue that it's quite a different value than when it was made. I think that point at which something goes from "this is interesting and applicable" to "this is interesting history but doesn't change my thinking" is always moving. Do you think a society could exist that puts religion, hell even philosophy, in the same category that we currently put cave paintings?

>>14564228
Those who talk about it will be religious, others will not, that's all

>>14565097
Biology is just physical observations, it can have practical purposes but in itself imparts no meaning or beauty or truth.

>>14564235
all my fellow zoomer atheist I know, are so to spite their uber-religious parents. Those who unironically worship dawkins and hitchens do so to learn arguements to try on their parents to trigger them. Versus, the uber religious zoomers I know usually had a difficult trial they had to overcome or a "religious experience."

But, the 4chan population might have different reasonings.

>>14565123
I think you may have latched onto a word and failed to look for the meaning and intent of anon's post.

>>14565123
Maybe I should have used the word brain instead of biology? I'd argue that things like twin language have been happening for a long time, and i'd argue that an ancient baby could form twin language with a modern one. Point being i think a primal genetic connection that precedes "meaning" gives the lions share of relevance to older works, and creates context for experience regardless of history or literature.

>>14565131
Literally seethe vs. cope
Kek

>>14564342
Romans 1 tells us quite alot about faggots. :)

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

>>14564228
It's the natural progression of atheism. Out of the faith in Reason (with a capital R) of the 18th century came the hard materialism of the 19th. But materialism is boring, so there emerged a materialist escapism in the form of 20th century fantasy and science fiction literary genres, which in the 21st century has grown into a veritable mythological corpus with cinematic universes, scientism, and the great myths of Moon and Mars colonization. The public are still not quite ready for true religion again, but probably by the 21st century we will have come full circle. /lit/ in particular appears so religious because it is a reactionary fringe community, and the religion of the future will emerge from this kind of reactionism.

With a depth in theistic philosophy, a position of belief in God is merely being reasonable.

The biggest argument is cosmological fine-tuning, which has the counter-argument of the multiverse. However, the multiverse argument is victim to the reverse Gambler's paradox.

>>14565241
Whatever natural cycle we were on was btfo by the arrival of the internet. Religion is fucking dead kiddo. The closest to a religious revival will be the cringefest when psychedelics are legalized and people assign faux-spirituality to communal altered state rituals.

It's not that hard to "see" God. Just let him in your heart, pray meditate fast.
Plus atheisum is a brainlet ideology

>>14565241
lol religion was simply the best materialism they could come up with back in the day.

>>14565284
>Religion is dead because of the internet
>He says while posting on a popular esoteric mystic philosophy board

>>14565312
>popular
This place is a quarantine zone and dying childless is the norm for its inhabitants. Not exactly a promising outlook if this is the bastion of religion.

>>14565284
I think we very well could see a revival of earnest and authentic religiosity as people begin to naturally recoil against scientism, all you need to do is take one look at the infinite inexhaustible richness of the phenomena to conclude the scientistic explanations (especially eliminative materialism) are not only gravely unsatisfying but a shockingly perverse mode of engaging with the world.

>>14565357
Individual communities always follow the whole in some way. /lit/'s Guenonian faux spiritualism is another variation of the broader return of mythology in recent years. As to why /lit/ chooses to worship an edgy contrarian like Guenon is another question.

Why do I feel like God isn't my boon? I've been studying for five years, gone to church, treat the doctrine as fact, but I still don't feel anything deep for the people or the results of godly devotion. I get better emotions understanding monomyth and gnostics than I did about the heavenly government. Im not even questioning about the existence of God it's just not what I'm interested in

>>14564342
Hate is actually closely related to love, oftentimes hatred for something stems for love of something else. For many /pol/acks hatred of LGBTQ+ people stems from their love of children who are being corrupted by libidinally hypertrophied 'men', case in point if you want to immediately harvest maximum (You)s post a pic of a drag queen surrounded by little boys. Men have a natural aversion to homosexuality that is based on the fact that men understand the depths of their own perversions and can understand that unmitigated sexuality that is praised by society will feed into itself and very rapidly become a grotesque caricature of healthy relationships.
The opposite of love is apathy, the opposite of loving thy neighbour is not hating thy neighbour but loving money. Because in exchange for money people in power will forsake ALL concerns for other men. Bad people don't hate other people, rather bad people see other people as mere tools, completely undeserving of any thought beyond utility. This is why satanism is closer to neoliberal progressive utilitarian socioeconomics and neoconservative warmongering.

>>14564228
If you properly think about life, you'd realise your utter powerlessness. Usually people consider themselves to have some powers and to not have other powers; what people do not realise is that they do not, nor they can in principle, control their possession of these powers. Every single ability you have, from reading and comprehending this text to feeding yourself (or having someone feed you), was granted to you as an external condition on which your existence rests upon, and can as easily be taken from you as it has been granted. Thus, as you separate what is "your" and what is "external", you'd notice that "yours" is nothing.

Up to this point there's nothing religious about this thought at all and it strictly conforms to the scientific/materialistic metaphysics. When you get to this point, however, you also realise that you cannot comprehend all of the above and continue relating to the world as you used to when you foolishly believed yourself to hold some power. Searching for the alternative means to relate to world, you come to the idea of God, Who gave you everything. There are quite a lot psychological and theological particularities that are worth discussing but which I'm unable to discuss here, but very roughly, the framework of thought is as I described.

>>14565473
sounds like determinism with extra steps.

>Religion
I really thought we'd be over this by now

>>14564342
>Death of the Author.
I'm free to interpret it however I want.

>>14565514
We can't. Religion is one of the four pillars of humanity.

>>14565536
lol who told you that?

>>14565505
Scientific metaphysics implies determinism, indeed. The idea of God helps, among other things, to get around that (since human psyche does not seem to function comfortably within a deterministic worldview)

>>14565540
Explain how humanity can survive without religion?

>>14565542
how the fuck does a one man human centipede type? knowing that you don't know will give you a framework to have experiences that will change you more than whatever book you plan to read next.

>>14565456
It sounds like you're somehow mismatching your approach to the results that would be effective for you. If you're studying but seem to need emotional confirmation, then skip the study and doctrine for now and pursue direct gnosis. Less time on Aquinas, more time in prayer and contemplation. For me, it was the opposite, I only found the emotional experience of God through extended intellectual effort, but this is not the only way, nor should it be. Good luck anon.

>>14565550
did humanity exist before religion?

>>14564228
Because Catholicism has a rich literary Canon.
>Is it all a contrarian larp due to social alienation?
No. Unlike other boards like /pol/ or /a/, most /lit/izens are actually pretty normal. The idea that all of 4chan is filled with autists is a Reddit meme that needs to die.

>>14565568
>>14565456
Reminder that despite Origen was maybe the wisest philosopher on the Earth, the Trinity was opened to less talented Athanasius due to participating in religious life

Books are not most important thing for Christians. Volunteer in your church, for example, try to work in children hospice.

>>14565569
no

>>14565569
No even Adam had a covenant with God

>>14565571
That image lol

>>14565571
http://graphics.wsj.com/catholics-world/

catholicism as normal lol. find me a country on that map where Catholicism isn't being spread by someone who also provides infrastructure. Watching religious missions in developed countries is the saddest thing I've seen.

>>14565581
>>14565582
Hahaha holy shit

>>14565582
>>14565581
Holy shit I didn't know. How old is the earth?

>>14565587
>>14565589
Kek you mad people don't play by your atheist rules ?

>>14565597
not mad at all. how old is the earth?

>>14565597
>people don't play by your atheist rules
Anon I...

>>14565597
Hahahaha holy shit dude
Just imagine

>>14565568
Your definitely right about emotional confirmation, but I feel theres a desire looming in me that neither God or Satan would grant. I don't know how to talk about it but it's like an in-between of positive and negative. I've been studying gnostics and monomyth mainly because they talk about pursuit of an apotheosis that goes beyond pairs of opposites.

>>14564380
perfect summary

>>14565610
There is plenty of Christian theology and mysticism that goes beyond the opposites, but admittedly, the usual discourse doesn't reflect this. I feel similarly to you in how unsatisfying the usual talk. Read Simone Weil and see how it treats you, or even Kierkegaard, although I would recommend Gravity and Grace the most highly. The usual discourse of Good vs Evil doesn't touch the ontological status of God as THE Good in the absolute sense. God is precisely the transcendence of supposed contradictions that you are describing.

>>14565598
Obviously it's pretty young.
Anything else is for people who want to please atheist by compromising thier positions.

>>14565688
for sure, but you have a pretty solid grasp on how long 10 years is yeah? I'm sure you've had fond memories of 10 year parts of your life. How many 10 year chunks do you think you need to add up to get the age of the earth?

>>14564228
everybody has a God, religious people just explicitly choose one

>>14564288
>>/pol/ack LARPs as a Christian despite being a bigot with violent fantasies
how is that not christian?

>>14564397
>i'll kill myself if everybody doesn't actively participate in my sexual fetishes
wew lad, moderation is a virtue

This thread was moved to >>>/qa/3098084