/lit/ - Literature

No, Gramsci destroyed the Left by convincing leftists that shitposting was a form of "praxi" and that labor agitation and support for labor movements were not necessary to advance a left political program.

>>14482778

america was a good looking country back then. we've somehow gotten massively uglier in the past few decades.

>>14482841
The body of America has corroded alongside it's soul.
What's the point of even having the 2nd when American's are too slavish and comfortable to do anything about it?

Seems like a kindergarten is shot up every second week but nobody has the balls to do the same to congress. What a bunch of pussies.

Just once I'd like to see a school shooter target Harvard. The whole ruling class of America deserves to be brutally purged alongside their Israeli masters.

>>14482778
As far as I know lots of New Left texts actually talk about the way left-wing cliches are incorporated into capitalism and mainstream bourgeois culture.

>>14482828
In what book?

>>14482778
Ted Kaczynski talked about this. The best way to neutralize a grassroots movement is to inject social leftism into it. That's why he refused to have leftists into his movement. They will ALWAYS make whatever you're fighting for into trans-vegan-environmentalism or whatever else and completely dillute the movement and make the normal people leave. The perfect example of this is Occupy Wall Street.

>>14482881
Which books?

>>14482906
ted doesn't have a "movement"

>>14482903
prison notebooks, what else?

>>14482906
CIA niggers really made this an art

>>14482910
I'm really not sure, I'm sure someone else would be able to point you in the right direction. I haven't read anything other than Foucault and only have breadcrumb knowledge of the whole New Left thing. I think maybe Debord, Adorno, Marcuse, that sort of thing. Tom Wolfe, who's not a leftist, wrote the essay 'Radical Chic'. There's certainly more recent commentary on it too, Mark Fisher.

>>14482912
What he was fighting for was very abstract and bigbrained and into the future, so I'm not surprised it didn't resonate. But what he said is true nonetheless.

>>14482841
If you look at the average publicity shot from any major 18-35 demo music festival, you'll find similar bodies and faces in different clothing.

Pictures of lardasses don't get saved for 60 years.

>>14482778
/wSzFjSU

>>14482778
look up repressive hypothesis

>>14482982
that didn't make any sense. capitalists are pushing for more sexual openness everyday.

>>14482778
It was CIA that flushed out Marxism from academic discourse and encourage shit like this. You reap what you sow

>>14482778
Causation goes the wrong way, but the idea is right.

>>14483058
>muh CIA
maybe marxism waned in popularity on its own without a massive conspiracy

>>14482778
>Paul Gottfried
>E. Michael Jones
Interesting name drops mind suggesting some books?

>>14483075
the CIA wasn't opposed to Marxism per se, as long as it condemned the USSR as authoritarian/bad, which is a perfectly logical point to take, as the US already had problems with Soviet admirers working in the government and eager to pass intelligence to the USSR whenever possible.

>>14482828
What do you think happened in 2016. Shitposting is effective.

Yes, you could say so. As we know, 20th century philosophy is an exercise in academic masturbation, and towards the middle of the century it became apparent that capitalism was incapable of being overcome. To avoid becoming a farce, the Marxist left moved towards social concerns that they could meme about until the end of time because of their fundamentally unfalsifiable nature

It's the natural progression of thought in line with the monetary and personal incentives of academic thinkers in a modern capitalist environment. Not saying that anything they say is wrong, I'm a fan of Adorno, of Foucault, etc. - but I'm just saying, the left has essentially admitted defeat to capitalism and in doing so has created a modern left that is totally compatible with corporate interests

>>14483163
>Yes, you could say so. As we know, 20th century philosophy is an exercise in academic masturbation, and towards the middle of the century it became apparent that capitalism was incapable of being overcome. To avoid becoming a farce, the Marxist left moved towards social concerns that they could meme about until the end of time because of their fundamentally unfalsifiable nature

That's a Jordan Peterson meme, the Marxist left always cared about social issues, and never abandoned its
economic concerns. You just hear more about the social stuff because culture wars are more fun to youngsters than economics.

And what do you mean by "unfalsifiable concerns", I would say the social issues the left fights against are pretty well documented, whether you agree with their solutions or not.

>>14483202

>the Marxist left always cared about social issues

It was ancillary, and often to an express limit - Marx himself rebuked an emphasis on identity politics

>never abandoned its economic concerns

There has not been a single prominent Marxist since the 1950s who has dealt primarily with economic issues

>unfalsifiable concerns

Most concepts pertaining to oppression in critical theory literature are non-positive, that is to say, they can never be deemed 'solved' in any meaningful sense. Of course, I believe most philosophers would understand that and hence taper their prescriptiveness, though people in the humanities who are 'inspired' by them lack the same restraint. It's all just their WILL to fucking POWER

>>14483242
>There has not been a single prominent Marxist since the 1950s who has dealt primarily with economic issues
Noam Chomsky? I don't know how much do you know about Marxism but I assume I don't need to explain how Foucault and Derrida aren't Marxists, right?
>Most concepts pertaining to oppression in critical theory literature are non-positive, that is to say, they can never be deemed 'solved' in any meaningful sense. Of course, I believe most philosophers would understand that and hence taper their prescriptiveness, though people in the humanities who are 'inspired' by them lack the same restraint. It's all just their WILL to fucking POWER
You are not giving me any specific examples so I don't even know what are you referring to.

>>14483325

Chomsky is not a Marxist at all... he's literally critical of Marxism as a project.

And uh idk what your point is. Of course I'm aware, I brought up Foucault in the first place because OP did. He's still part of that whole critical theory thing. You know, that whole Yale thing

Specific examples eh?

Shit like the oppressiveness of forced performativity, or subalternization, or racialization in general, etc

>>14483349
>Shit like the oppressiveness of forced performativity, or subalternization, or racialization in general, etc
And feminists refusing to have kids because they don't want to be "colonized into baby factory bodies".

>>14483349
>Shit like the oppressiveness of forced performativity, or subalternization, or racialization in general, etc
I think we may have different definitions of "specific"

>>14482778
E.Michael jones has mentioned Foucault's "deal with the devil" which was essentially telling neoliberalism "we won't criticize your economic system if you give us unlimited sexual libertinism"

All pop philosophers are CIA plants.

>>14483362
Good, women's bodies aren't baby factories

>>14483389
do you think e. michael jones ever read history of sexuality? i feel like his power thesis would have a lot of overlap with foucault.

>>14483415
Agreed. They can also be used to fuel fires, or even as pig feed.

>>14483415
Correct, they’re for exploitation by Capital only. No baby’s gonna tie her down!
Tie those tubes, drone!

>>14483426

Based

>>14483428
Do you want women to be baby factories?

>>14483436
I want women to be sucking my penis factories. My position’s irrelevant.

The point is that this anti-natalist pregnancy terror is a policy to ensure subalterns stay at their desks. It’s to ensure maximum labor participation. Lmao, you think anybody wants anybody liberated?

>>14483446
> want women to be sucking my penis factories
Reminder that sodomy is gay. Anyone who enjoys sexual pleasure not conductive to its purpose of potentially creating new life doesn't intimately even know what sex is; treating it more like a bowel movement than a transcendental act.

>>14483446
>My position’s irrelevant.
I see, so you want them to be baby factories.
>anti-natalist pregnancy terror
Is this snowflake slang for women having the choice to not have kids juust like men do?
>Lmao, you think anybody wants anybody liberated?
Well I certainly don't think *you* want anybody liberated.

>>14483507
Fuck, I got baited.

>>14482841
>america was a good looking country back then.
Not really. Boomers looked kind of disgusting too. 19th century Germans looked the best, honestly.

>>14483458
Reminder that this is all larp and you masturbate to porn all the time

>>14483515
You got publicly humiliated for your unabashed misogyny, better luck next time kid

>>14483507
There’s no stigma behind men having children, or men saying men should have children, since a guy squirting a load out has no effect on his overall job performance. However, with women, there is an imposed social pressure not to have children, since they are physically disabled by pregnancy. And there’s that nasty tendency to want to raise their kids, extremely problematic. Maternity leave for administrative assistants is hard on CEOs.
Male and female reproductive freedom happen as a consequence of biology, not bigotry.

Either you’re joking or you’re a liberal that tumbled out of a time machine from 1979.

>>14483525
I stopped masturbating at 15 once I got a girlfriend and have never had the desire to do it again.

>>14483537
Where is the punchline, you just assembled some information together. Yes, a woman pursuing a career might be discouraged from haying children, aaand?

>>14483575
Not that guy, but this goes against her biology, all in the name of profit

>>14483538
Good for you. I am sure you also have sex with your gf only for reproductive purposes, pleasure doesn't even come close to being a motive. In fact you are so focused to your reproductive mission that you barely even notice that you are having fun.

>>14483575
Giving women the right to vote and allowing them to enter the workforce was a mistake.

>>14483591
Women having the choice to raise children or pursue a career or both is a good thing. Just because it benefits corporations having a bigger workforce doesn't make it bad. A couple now may choose for example whom will stay at home with the kids, while previously the woman was always forced to be at home.

>>14483641
Why do you hate freedom so much?

>>14483650
Motherfucker, you’re deliberately evading the point like the shitlib you are, or you’re too stupid to get it, or you’re from /pol/ and false-flagging.
In the case of the second option, I’ll put it a way you can understand. Imagine Walmart is a white guy dressed all 1950’s style. He looks like a racist. And instead of saying to the woman, “You’re married to me, and you’re gonna have babies!” and whipping her with his belt like before the sexual revolution, this time he’s saying “You’re working for me, and you’re not gonna have babies!” and promising that if she just wage-slaves for another twenty years, she’ll be the Baddest Girl Boss.
The effect of the latter is a saturated labor market, so. It’ll be the latter, since Capital calls the shots. And yes, a bigger workforce is bad. Everybody being pressed into serfdom is fucking nightmarish. Check out suicide rates for middle aged women, by the way, we’re all winners.

>>14483654
It was an act of selfishness. Women entering the workforce effectively doubled the supply of labor. So, instead of only needing one person of the household to earn the income needed to support the entire family, namely the father figure and patriarch, now you need to to generate the same level of income. In order for businesses to hire these extra employees, their wages have to be reduced by half. It is because of women's selfishness that has forced every able bodied adult to be conscripted into labor which has left all of us worse off.

>>14483690
to
*two

>>14483654
>work is freedom
That is literally 1984 double think.

>>14483706
Not for shitlibs. They cum when they finish PowerPoints.

>>14483706
They are free to choose to work or not.
No one is equating that work and freedom are the same.

>>14483740
Oh, cool. Then let me just freely quit my job, didn’t realize it was that easy.

>>14483749
It is

>>14483740
>They are free to choose to work or not.
Not without a substantial drop in the quality of standard of living for you and your family, lest you miss my point here >>14483690, unless you are one of those hypergamous women that is so common aomong your kind, which reifies the male as the sole breadwinner, and thus, patriarchy, which you so despise.

>>14482778
>E. Michael Jones
lol
>>14482841
>somehow
Letting in the darkies

>>14482778
No, you fucking idiot. A bunch of random French thinkers didn't destroy the labor movement. The labor movement was destroyed by a concerted set of policies enacted by neoliberal governments starting from about 1979, when it became obvious that economies were stagnating and the rate of profit was dropping. Reagan, Thatcher, Hawke, Mitterrand, Kohl (et al) dismantled the labor movement, not Foucault, Marcuse and Baudrillard or whoever the fuck.

>>14483766
It’s possible for multiple agents to enact massive social change, goober.
>>14483753
Absolutely amazing how well it worked.

>New Left
define this for me nigger i know you wont

>>14483781
It’s what happened when white suburbans saw news broadcasts from the South during the late 50’s, stood up, and said “I wanna be Rosa Parks too!”
The rest, as they say, is herstory.

>>14483775
>A handful of French elite intellectuals is on the same level as the concerted use of state executive and legislative power in order to crush the organised working class.
>A couple of guys writing books vs. a concerted restructuring of the economic base of society -- who would win?

>>14483689
This is such a weasily argument, you are trying to argue for (at least cultural) traditionalism by pretending that women having the choice to have kids or not is corporatist oppression. Every reason you gave why women in the workforce is bad can be applied to men as well. You are using broader economic concerns as a proxy to argue against women's rights. Wage slavery is bad therefore women should be baby factories is not an argument.

>>14483740
Freedom to starve or live in the slum if you can afford rent at all. The nature of the economy changed when the labor market grew. Now women are not just free to work but are expected to because higher competition for work keeps the wages down, and a single income isn’t feasible anymore. The freedom is gone. Women cannot choose the family route anymore unless the man is one of the few who can support both on his own salary

>>14483856
this site is a reactionary hellhole... you are cassting pearls before swine

>>14483706
You are the one who is doing the double think and you aren't even realize it. By your own demented logic if men were banned from working tomorrow, that would be a good thing because work is oppressive, and everyone who disagrees is a corporatist shill. This is the level of discussion we are having right now.

>>14483753
cointelpro is so AMESOC i love it.

>>14483869
but men are being banned from working, they are being mechanized or pushed out by militant misogynists in H&R which is replacing them with foreigners and more women. and yes this is a good thing because then men will finally have their own civil rights movement and actually improve society, unlike now - where they are used and abandoned by a system which scales only with them trust and supporting it. the entire point of civilization is for men to have children, since historically 2/3 men never got the chance to do this. which is the greatest oppression conveniently never mentioned by people like you, but bears out in in the genetic record. the people who built everything around you did it on a promise, that future men will no longer suffer.

women never suffered to begin with, excluded from all war and hardship due to automatic vagina status. the real issue ur having with that anon is your cognition is undeveloped, the entire world comes to you through a special type of googly eyed glasses where you assume violence is bad, people being equal is good, freedom is given not taken etc. ur a prole.

>>14483900
You are contradicting yourself so hard that I don't even need to make the points myself.
>but men are being banned from working, they are being mechanized or pushed out by militant misogynists in H&R which is replacing them with
foreigners and more women.
And this is bad, right? Do you think that women being excluded from the workforce may feel the same way? This is so fucking hypocritical, at least Nazis are straightforward about wanting women to be locked at home making them sandwiches.

>>14483900
dumb
>>14483954
gay

>>14483954
it's not bad i went on to explain to you how it's good you just stopped reading. it's those glasses i mentioned, must be filtering out naughty ideas.

>Do you think that women being excluded

i think women ruin anything they are included in because nobody is ever included in male spaces, men earn their spot by taking it through forceful nature and character - there are countless games developed for this very process. the same way men ruin female spaces by not accepting to just be, and making it a dick measuring contest where there are no dicks to speak of, making the energy weird and combative.

the sexes are biologically segregated and live alienated and incommunicable experiences. when i popped my first boner my world changed from childhood and having fun to a new intensity which made me want to kill and be killed in equal measure, it is something a woman can never understand because it is physical and redefines the axis of your entire experience. your penis is a vital force of self-identification and radical new introspection, and the women around you who excite you in this new way are transformed from fellow human beings to dangerous demons and angels, wild beasts which can exhaust you with a glance or gentle word. the sexuality of men is never discussed because we don't like to talk about it. but it is a weight we carry from puberty until old age, a combustible spark of destruction. if it wasn't for internet porn you would see millions of men marching in the street with some new fascist ideology backed by the heroic tradition. the only thing between you and total anihilation is the coom. the coom must flow.

>>14483981
That was so much dumber than I expected it to be jesus christ. Can we just resolve this dispute by a dick slapping contest? The loser stays home spreading ass and making sandwiches

>>14483981
>boners makes men kill
>porn stops fascism
>the sexes are biologically segregated
you know what else is segregated? 98% of people and you along 2% of psychos roaming the earth.

>>14482868
Hi, Israeli-Anon, thanks for the discord invites ;)

>>14483362
>>14483415
>>14483436
How to kill a nation without firing a shot.
>Don't get pregnant, focus on your studies
>Don't get pregnant, focus on your career.
>Don't get pregnant, it's so yucky and tiring and expensive and you won't be able to travel the world.
>We need immigrants! There aren't enough workers!

>>14483158
>my pepes got trump elected!

>>14482778
Kinda yeah it's honesty funny how all the neo-Marxists, new socialists anarchists and whatever other segment or offshoot of the new left constantly critiques capitalism but all their ideas a have been adopted and implemented by capital

>>14484019
>>14484183
>this is dumb
>the invocation of the christian god as reflex mockery of a religion you dismiss as second nature to you now as breathing
>the normalization of homosexuality without eros or poetic tragedy, the commodification of masculinity and reduction of spiritual to physical

>i'll restate the complex emotions you tried to describe in strawman pantomime because ridiculing people silences them and im uncomfortable
>thank god for psychoanalysis so i don't have to think or be engaged with repugnant ideas i can just dismiss them wholesale because the wrong combination of words means ur evil heeeheee

there is a long tradition of challenging speech and dialogue or order to break lose cognition bias and reformulate ideas. you are clearly not equipped to deal with conversation unless it contains reaffirmation of beliefs you have absorbed and never bothered to question, despite the only beliefs you really hold are questioning others who express belief and not once did it occur to you to do the same to yourself. the entire legal system people like you would set up, after you dismantle the one people like me set up, would make the concentration camps look like fun bathhouses.

>>14483163
>As we know, 20th century philosophy is an exercise in academic masturbation,

anythign after the greeks

>>14484289
No it's just that you are really fucking stupid and your post doesn't deserve a serious response. You can't even structure your posts properly, instead of building up an argument you address different points in each paragraph and then throw your conclusion.

>>14484289
I'm not saying you don't have a point or two, but I'm also not saying you're no psychopath, cause you are a psychopath, aren't you.

The labor movement has always been a meme

I don't think you can directly implicate someone like Foucault, or philosophers directly. F. was furthermore an activist for prison reforms—not exactly the labor movement, but not simply "cultural" causes, either. Never mind that he is not for sexual liberation. And if many of French philosophers take on a post-Marxist stance, it's usually from a philosophical anti-Hegelian perspective; hence rather difference, minoritarianness, etc. (but yes, one can superficially recognize these things as contemporary libshit). At this time, there was of course still opposition (intellectual too): Maoism and the semiological Maoism of Tel Quel. Nevertheless, it is interesting to study the history of May 1968, which still had a huge impact on these thinkers. The movement failed, and the next election saw a huge conservative victory—largely voted in by the workers. As 68 failed, the workers became disillusioned by it, and it was only the students, their erstwhile comrades, who persisted. It is especially the Vincennes types that radicalized themselves philosophically, resulting in highly irreverent (and so not very practical; an FU to discourse) texts with their proto-accelerationst affirmations of capitalist desire. As far as US dissemination goes for this (instead of the boring deconstruction"ist" university route) there was of course Semiotexte. But how directly this has an effect on labor movements, is questionable. Besides, the French (despite a small post-68 admiration) are not the same as an American new left, they've always had their air of intellectual superiority. That they have been used secondhand (cia or whatever—or simply the debasing influence that is US-style humanities) is another story. The real neoliberal victory of French "thought" only came in the 80s, with the nouveaux philosophes, spreading their fervent anti-communism, consumerist media spectacles, and decrying "new antisemitism" all around.

>>14484306
>>14484324
>..connecting to reply server
>run gaslight routine
>....
>...
>..

>you are contradicting yourself
doesn't say how or where
>you are stupid
telling a stupid person this does nothing
>doesn't deserve
oh no! so you are engaging in critique by non-engagement as a form of meta-rebuttal due to the sheer inferiority of the non-arguments presented to you, which you could ofc refute, but you know, why do the easy work when you can educate us all with your higher order superstructure of communication.
>i don't agree with what you wrote not EVEN because of what you wrote, but how you wrote it- don't you see, your sin is so elementary we must spend this entire time highlighting it because marx forbid we should approach an interlocutors ideas as they are presented, we might SWALLOW WHOLESALE IDEOLOGY SMUGGLED IN THROUGH UNSTATED AXIOMS AND THAT WOULD BE THE DOOM OF US ALL

>>14484324
you've never said a relevant thing your entire miserable life. you are a tube, a worm, eating and shitting what you eat deep underground where no light can ever find you.

don't you me, im worried you might hurt my feelings even more!

>>14484351
>oh no! so you are engaging in critique by non-engagement as a form of meta-rebuttal due to the sheer inferiority of the non-arguments presented to you, which you could ofc refute, but you know, why do the easy work when you can educate us all with your higher order superstructure of communication.
>i don't agree with what you wrote not EVEN because of what you wrote, but how you wrote it- don't you see, your sin is so elementary we must spend this entire time highlighting it because marx forbid we should approach an interlocutors ideas as they are presented, we might SWALLOW WHOLESALE IDEOLOGY SMUGGLED IN THROUGH UNSTATED AXIOMS AND THAT WOULD BE THE DOOM OF US ALL

Imagine having a meltdown for people pointing out that you don't structure your posts properly, I think we are done here

>>14482778
Yes, anglo. Foucault destroyed western culture to introduce Trannies but those happen to only exist in the US, but that's part of the plan! Those evil french philosophers!

The state of /lit/ during american hours....

>>14482828
>>14482778
>Still believing in the right left divide
????? That's what they want you to believe......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz2kFOpZsJw

>>14483852
Holy fuck, you’re so dense it’s unbelievable.

>>14483852
I mean in a sense many women would have to be or rather feel more inclined to be "baby factories" once we cut the fat of much of what modern work is, thinking well all find meaningful replacements for this time to take our efforts is silly. If anything this "thing" will be child rearing. Obviously if both male and female are doing less wageslaving then they both will have better hands in raising. The argument is more that modern women are falling hook line and sinker as well for the idea of careerism, when clearly this is detrimenting everyone

>>14484919
Careerism bad? No! The only way to personal fulfillment is through corporate servitude, and any and all other occupations are misogyny. Which isn’t to say that all women are de facto forced into corporate servitude. They’re totally free to be homeless or to put on an apron and clean dishes for a rich guy.
What are you, some kind of bigot?

>>14484919
>Obviously if both male and female are doing less wageslaving then they both will have better hands in raising.
If they are doing less wageslaving they would play videogames, travel and get shitfaced. Less work for both, or even just for women doesn't mean more babys, it means more time for things they really want to do

>>14485307
>play videogames, travel and get shitfaced.
nobody enjoys doing those things, they are means to an end, psychic release of misery and dread.

you travel with? FAMILY
you drink with? RELATIVES
you play games with? CHILDREN

YES

the reason the working class isnt being won over to socialism is because socialism is more about sex and teens with blue hair than it is about economic policy these days

>>14484243
The lady in that image is being so obnoxiously naive. It's time to end the male dominated culture of family life by becoming subservient to the male dominated culture of western capitalism? It's mind boggling.

>>14485389
based boulderlob

>>14482906
>The perfect example of this is Occupy Wall Street.
redpill me, how did occupy wallstreet turn into shit

>>14485389
stonetoss but based?

>>14483436
Yes! The amount of people who love their family, especially their children more than anything is simply overwhelming. Not only is it a biological imperative and all that evolutionary jazz, it is a huge source of love and purpose in life to continue your family.
The successful creation of the next generation of your family and helping them create theirs will give you a life with kids and grandkids, a community of love and support that at the end of your days you can be fully proud of and secure in the knowledge it was worth it.
To forgo this to generate more wealth and climb arbitrary social hierarchies for no other reason outside of simply achieving itself is nothing short of spiritual desolation. No body wishes they had spent more time at work and are glad they are alone.

>>14483852
>Pretending that women having the choice to have kids or not is corporatist oppression

You know a lot of women would love the option to have a family and be a stay at home mom but they can't afford it, right? Wanting a family is really, really normal. Don't buy into this corporate propaganda, go talk to some girls- they want kids. Most adults in general can see how raising a family would be really rewarding. The staunch antinatalists are a minority and many of them are coping. The "a baby is a ball and chain" feminists have narcissistic personality disorder.
I'm in a high tier medical school and in casual conversation maybe 2 or 3 out of 100 girls in this highly careerist environment have expressed "never wanting kids." fucking 10 or so of them are already married and had a kid, two got pregnant in the last year. It's a part of the good life. Everybody knows it. Now, look at the normal, non-careerist majority of women.
They can't have kids, because they're too poor. They are too busy with work. They haven't found a stable relationship yet, because everyone's so fucking busy and alienated they literally don't have the time and energy to build a trusting bond with someone.
I'm not going to get in to how many of the men who would be available have likely dropped out of the job market and are smoking weed, playing vidya, and living out of their boomer parents basement.
Even if this majority of women could manage to work a job (alongside their husband, they need that dual income to afford the bare minimum quality of life) while raising a kid the society would punish them for having kids. Toddlers come home from daycares covered in shit and strange bruises, you maternity leave is much less time than you need to start off raising an infant. There is no such thing as paternity leave. If you're minimally competent economically, you get zero support from the state with food and care.
Communism had a lot of issues, but one thing they did right was reproduction. A woman could stay home and raise the kids, or work. If she worked, she'd leave her kid at a neighborhood daycare where the loving and invested workers would feed their kid two wholesome meals a day and ensure that safe learning and play occurred. She had actual options- and most women chose to be stay at home moms.

Yes, look at what occupy wall street was turned into. Never listen to jews and faggots. Basically ignore anything post 1945 and get the guillotines ready.

>>14485369
>>14485369
Well enjoying anything is debatable and ends up in projection for both sides, but about dread and misery
>Noo dread and misery bad waah waah i want to be happy mommy i cant live my life without trascendental meaning give me some promise of eternal happyness waah waah

>>14482778
They denied wrong-coom, so everybody just wants to coom instead of getting stuff done. Simple as.

if lenin saw the state of his movement today he would have them all shot

>>14482778
>TFW local DSA caucus is trying to adopt bylaws that incorporate intersectional ideology into the operating procedures of each meeting
>The fucking rules include an incredibly specific and defensive ban on calling people "crazy" and "narcissistic"

I'm gonna stand up and oppose it. Probably will get kicked out but at least people will see that not everyone thinks this is acceptable.

>>14485496
wtf are u doing in the dsa in the first place

>>14485496
If it’s any consolation, there’s a good chance your DSA branch has a bona fide Fed in it. Banning “narcissistic.” Fucking brilliant.

>>14485502
I don't see any other political path forward. Once this fails I'm just gonna just move to the woods, have a bunch of beautiful kids, teach them shooting and public speaking, and hope they solve the world's problems.

>>14485514
Every DSA caucus and reading group is liable to have a fed. That's the point of this type of thing. I'm trying some stuff with it because I think perfect is the enemy of competent and maybe the current situation is good enough to get some positive changes, or at least get some people thinking about labor and unionization.

>>14485516
even heimbachs TWPA was a more serious option than the DSA
the whole group is infiltrated by liberals

>>14485496
Haha rosefags are fucking cringe

>>14485441
>i want to be a rootless cosmopolitan just like my favorite comic book villain the jew, who is an antihero dontcha know?
>imagine glorifying family and tradition so you can become strong, renew your society, and brutally cleanse the entire planet of subhuman tra... wait skip that part, it's for later

>>14485496
this is basically u >>14485389

>>14485516
Society isn't something you can save because it's an abstract force. But you can create parallels and alternatives.

>>14482778
The labor movement was always a slave tier gimmick designed to funnel "workers" into a military force for Partyists that had no interest in the things that kept them together in the first place. Regardless, the globalism of today has more similarities in internationalist ideologies.

>>14485522
I don't go for essentialism regardless of who is trying to benefit from it. the fact is, DSA is the biggest and most viable socialist movement we've seen in this country in decades.
Yes it is garbage. I'd hate myself if I didn't at least attempt to make some positive impact.
It's rough though. I'm a very trad looking guy and everyone thinks I'm a cop.

>>14485544
>I'm a very trad looking guy and everyone thinks I'm a cop.
yea I can imagine, when everyone around you has pink hair and noserings u probaly look like the biggest alt right guy in there

but seriously, you know that the group is jsut for climate obsessed liberals who look up to aoc and think drumpf is rayciss, its not a serious labour movement
all ur doing rn is helping it grow with ur cash support

>>14485496
>>14485516
>>14485544
please try to create a conservative branch within the DSA, might be worth joining if not everyone is a mixed race blue haired liberal

>>14485556
Maybe. I think there's a few good people in my local group.
I agree it's mostly PMC and liberal teens though.

>>14485562
You can get involved with the class unity caucus, if only for discussion and reading groups. You might still greatly dislike DSA. I really don't like it.
I wouldn't call them conservative but they are built on open objection to intersectionality.
Not sure whether they're successful or not wherever they actually exist, if they do actually exist irl and aren't just an internet caucus

>>14484251
>unable to refute his point
Sad

>>14485404
Fight the plutocracy turned into fight the transphobia.

>>14485642
>class unity caucus
absolute state

>>14485589
>the class unity caucus,
never heard of them
looking through their site rn

>The DSA’s 2019 national convention was at times an embarrassing spectacle, and underlines how liberal the organization’s politics have become in the absence of a principled Marxist caucus.
based, I agree with them fully

i imagine theyre seen as red fascists in the dsa

>>14483436

>>14485642
"fight the plutocracy" doesn't mean anything, it is typical vague leftist protest-babble. any anti-banker movement which doesn't explicitly name i) The Fed and ii) The Jew is fake and gay. wall street is just a symptom

>>14485748
This. I never understood how Leftists are able to stick to such a regimen of ideology. I am even less aware how they are unable to think even in basic principles of culture. No wonder why they want the Classics banned because even these ancient texts would expose their beliefs as hollow and misguided.

>>14485527
>If you dont have kids you are rootless cosmolitan jew reee
>Implying muh tradition n culture isn't perfect fit to contemporany capitalism
Dont you have a happening to shill polfag

>>14482778
you know how pedos lure kids
>daddy and mommy have so many rules, they don't let you have fun and eat candies, and you want to have fun don't you

>>14485496
based
tell them also that intersectional ideology is the worst cancer created by this dying capitalist society

>>14485777
No anon don't have kids. They're expensive.

>>14485887
I will most probably, but because I want the world to be like me,
not for some superego mandate from muh meme tradition

>>14485934
>I will most probably, but because I want the world to be like me,
based
>not for some superego mandate from muh meme tradition
cringe

>>14485544
Why are you still wasting time with socialism.

>>14485562
Why not just become a National Socialist then? It sounds like you're just delaying the inevitable to me anyway. Sticking with socialism will just have you siding with these people you claim to dislike against your own people.

>>14485934
Nooooo no kids stop being natalist ur hurting everyone

>>14486008
I unironically think it is a good political and economic system

>>14486014
ye national socialism is good but its reputation is dogshit lmao

its either national socialist feds and skinheads or lgbtipgtb+ socialists

>>14486014
i get ur point, but I think being a socialist
AND a nationalistic is the way to go
I belive nazism wont work electoraly, perhaps it will be applied again through a revolution or a coup

but in my public life im a nationalist who is also socialst in economic politics

>>14482910
The concept of recuperation is what seems to be of interest
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recuperation_(politics)
I wish I could rec good books but I’m light on new left stuff

>>14483075
CIA funded magazines and intellectuals in France to distance the left from the working class, French nationalism and the Soviet Union. They declassified a document about it last year.

>>14486079
Nationalism and naziism are both meme tier, not for adults or even vaguely serious children

>>14486129
There’s a bad sperg tendency in this thread to discount multiple causes for a single phenomenon. Lots of people saying “It was the CIA!” or “No, it was capitalism winning!”
Something as big as Marxism can die of a thousand cuts and in fact probably did. It can be both factors perhaps even as many as three.
>>14486182
Nationalism is a powerful ideology, not smart to throw it in the trash because you think it’s silly. Lots of people made that mistake and are reaping losses for it now.

>>14486182
why is pride in ur nation "meme teir"

>>14486182
Yes because a global social worker paradise isnt memey or very serious. Probably more pragmatic to start it nationally and go from there. Kinda like china

>>14486182
literally all big nations have been nationalist
the ussr were patriotic as fuck
north korea is nationalist
nazi germany was nationalist, so was the german empire

>>14486182
t. trotskyist

>>14486208
Pride in your nation doesn't benefit you or anyone you know. It supports a group of people who you've never met who will never share the benefits with you by convincing people to go to war for them, get riled up over the "threats" they invent, believe in some mythology of a nation they have invented.
It's a cynically deployed propaganda strategy to take from you and give to the economically advantaged of your country.
>>14486202
Who?

>>14486212
You just described some shitty places

>>14486236
ok liberal

>>14486227
are you a anarchist?
do u belive in no borders?

>>14482778
yes, read Jean Claude Michéa

>>14486244
Like anyone gives a fuck what some retard tankie thinks

>>14486254
>gets run over by a stronger power
>"i-i sure showed those anarchists"

>>14486248
No, no.

>>14486227
limiting immigration benefits directly me, because it will reduce crime rates and increase wages

>>14486254
>gets run over by a stronger power
>"i-i sure showed those tankies"

>>14486227
Virtually every neoliberal politician and commentator in the Western world.

>>14486263
>business leaves
wat now nigger retard

>>14486269
business are going to be owned by the state, so they cant leave

>>14486258
>USSR
>North Korea
>Nazi Germany
>German empire

Unstable, short lived, bad economies, puppet states for nearby superpowers, shit quality of life for citizens, memed by stupid kids like you because you've never dealt with anything difficult in your soft life

>>14486275
Lmao.

>>14486268
????

>>14486269
they wont
first big companies will be nationalised and business will be given incentive to stay with the money taken from money that went to immigrant welfare and shit

>>14482778

The only thing he destroyed was his immune system.

>>14486269

>>14486300
this, also if a corporation uses tax havens or does production in another nation you tax their products into oblivion

>>14486353
this

>>14486263
it also ruins the social cohesion of your country

>>14483446
>need women to stay at their desks to maximize labor output
>no children
>not enough future labor output
>wat do
>import South Americans
60 years later:
>EL PUEBO, UNIDO, JAMAS SERA VENCIDO!
>Expropriations
>everyone becomes a billionaire

what did capitalists mean by this

>>14485416
>You know a lot of women would love the option to have a family and be a stay at home mom but they can't afford it, right?
This is highly questionable, if we look at American birth rates, the poorest have the most children - this is most egregious with Mexicans living 10 people to a box. Furthermore, birth rates in the Old World collapsed first among the aristocracy, not the masses.

Ultimately these women want to pursue "empowerment" or fear that their children will end up being of a lesser social status than they are without being able to afford "the best schools".

>>14487615
The incentives are upside down. It really is clown world. The cosmopolitan neoliberals and materialist marxists have no idea how to run a system which produces proper incentives that encourage healthy evolution. Their flawed humanistic approach to create a net that prevents all failure is increasing the net pain amount present in the system over time. In short, pain cannot be eliminated, only reduced by encouraging adaptation and survival.

>>14488041
It’s interesting to see eugenics come back within the Overton window within like the past three weeks.

>>14483575
>Yes, a woman pursuing a career might be discouraged from haying children, aaand?
You've never seen this movie?

>>14486182
nationalism would make sense in a genuinely utopian state, that'd be something to be proud of, that'd be something to protect and preserve. but we're about as far from "the ideal" as humanly possible. being a nationalist in the 21st century is frankly fucking embarrassing, there's nothing worth protecting or preserving in this decadent garbage heap of a country. we're just one giant zoo full of faggot animals and neglectful, pot-bellied zookeepers. the only time national identity comes into play is when said zookeepers want to go to war with the zoo on the other side of the city. this identity is meaningless and should be destroyed.

>>14482965
>Pictures of lardasses don't get saved for 60 years.
This.

Also, livehack:
If you want to look more attractive in a picture make it black and white and slightly blurry.
Bonus points for cropping half the face to mask asymmetries.

>>14488435
I’m not talking about a premeditated consolidated crowd control mechanism such as eugenics or sterilization. I’m talking about a system that has a low pain/failure threshold built in to create contrast between what is and what could be. One that doesn’t attempt to save everybody who should be allowed to fail. If we elect a false utopian system which has no room for failure, we choose to destroy the species in slow motion. Nature will reconcile the difference in time. The only way to grow is to practice temperance.

It was a cia gay op to turn legitimate labour movements into fag parades

>>14482965
>>14482841
Its unrionically the goblinos. Mexicans are just an ugly race. All the people in both those concert pics are upper class whites.

>>14482778
>why do ig corporations promote leftism but actually suppress it?
This really isn't as complex as you imagine - when the social zeitgeist becomes that of pseudo-leftism combined with a society that takes lip-service as equal to action itself, the easiest way to suppress what threatens you is to just say the opposite of what you're doing. The problem is that post-modern people care more about symbols and iconography than actions - in fact, many of them, especially in the U.S., despise action and seem to have conflated the concept of doing literally anything with aggressive self-interest - so the corporations have their floats at Pride, they show diversity hiring practices, the hire outspoken """"communists"""" who actively support classism by working for the very companies they work for, etc. etc. etc. all while actively suppressing union organizers, lobbying against worker's rights, spreading the same tired propaganda they've used for nearly a century, etc.

It's just a bait and switch. Since people are so damned depressed these days and are using the serotonin hit they get from consuming - and there is always something to consume - it's just that much easier. They'll sell you the symbolism of your ideology while using every ounce of their effort to suppress you.
Ironically, this is nothing more than the free market doing what it does best. No one would be made a tool if they weren't so desperately interested in being used.

>>14482778
No. The labor movement destroyed itself in the 50's and 60's when it started colluding with capital. Unions accepted a submissive role and agreed to the wage system, outside ownership of means of production, and craft unionism where workers are separated by trade and position, trading any hope of real systemic progress for increased wages and temporary material comfort.

Now that craft unionism has destroyed worker solidarity, capital can divide and conquer in any conflict with labor. If Walmart shuts down a store because the workers formed a union, will the railway unions act in solidarity and refuse to deliver to their stores? If Ford lays off their workers and moves a factory to China, will the dockworkers refuse to unload Ford cars from the cargo ships? Of course not. And so any time capital wants more of the pie, they can squash their isolated workers with ease. The only solution is solidarity between all proletariat across industry.

>>14488729
Leaving those priced out of such a system to outbreed you while being coddled by the state.
>$15 minimum wage
Oh wait you’re priced out? You’re a loser with no skills and nothing to offer? No problem! Just stay at home get fat as fuck and keep having kids. We will pay to keep you and your kids alive and will also subsidize each additional birth.

How is this sustainable?

>>14488767
It isn’t. Malthus is stirring.

>>14482910
Check out https://www.johnhuntpublishing.com/zer0-books/

If you're a sane leftist and you're tired of the poz and intersectionality that's taken over your movements, join your local MAGA group and use Tucker Carlson's talking points to win them away from free market nonsense. A bridge has to be gapped because neither libertarians nor antifa trannies are going to budge in their autistic ideology. A new consensus is possible, but current ideological divides prevent it from developing (homework question: who does this work in favor of?)

>>14482828
Where is the lie? It took them a while but their infiltration strategy worked, we live in a faggy nu-left hegemony.

>>14483158
Not effective enough at not electing another warmongering neocon

>>14489136
this
tucker is the greatest socialist speaker rn

>>14489870
american socialism will destroy the world.

>>14490007
implying america isnt already destroying the world

>>14483415
>women's bodies aren't baby factories
Where do you think new people come from?

>>14488538
Nationalists of this century aren't proud of the state. Civic nationalists, which is what you're describing, are stupid as fuck. As a nationalist I'm proud of my nation, that is to say, I'm proud of my people. My ancestors, my peers, and my descendants.

>>14490481
>ethnic nationalist
even lower IQ than civic nationalists

>>14490734
seethe

>>14491161
Quiet, ideologue

>>14491494
GIULI 333...

>>14485748
>I KNOW THE REAL SYMPTOM
retard

>>14484243
Can we blame them? Women want Conan the Barbarian, the King and the Conqueror to fuck her out of her mind. Not Kim the Wagecuck, the Corporate Property and the Wagie-Cagie to make her give birth to even worse corporate slaves. For a woman, a willing slave is as attractive sexually as an obese landwhale is to a man.
Slaves barely breed, this is why you contantly have to capture more of them. Now instead of buying Negroes and Arabs to be your new slaves, you outsource slave imports to themselves by providing a gibsmedat carrot. The moment the carrot is taken away, the slave understands what the fuck he has consented to and goes to snackbar himself onto locals out of pure existential dread of 'so I just escaped the poor soul-crushing shithole of Allahistan to get into ANOTHER soul-crushing shithole'?