/lit/ - Literature

>>14448718
me

>>14448721
I mean you

>>14448726
I mean me

>>14448718
He's not a philosopher.

>Philosophy and the study of the actual world have the same relation to one another as onanism and sexual love.
(The German Ideology, Part III)

>>14448758
He studied trannies

>>14448718
Do you have any valid criticisms against Marx, or do you just want to try associating him with your boogeyman group in bad faith?

>>14448787
He was a statist authoritarian

>>14448758
Autophilia is big-brained confirmed.

Diogenes of Sinope is by far the most Reddit philosopher.

Plato

>>14448718
Sartre

>>14448787
He created communism which is shit

>>14448787
I'm a Marxist but there is nothing more reddit than responding to a shitposting thread demanding that whoever is being joked about is taken absolutely seriously

Joe Rogan

reddit incarnate

>>14448862
>I'm just pretending to be retarded!

>>14448855
Babeuf was the first communist, and he died over 20 years before Marx was born.

>>14448810
His writings have been used to justify authoritarianism, but Marx himself had very little to say in how a government ought to be run and was primarily only concerned with promoting the values of the French Revolution (liberty, equality, fraternity) and critiquing capitalism. If anything, he was an anarchist. It's hilarious how uninformed critics of Marxism are on even the most basic principles of Marxism.
>>14448862
Ok retard

>>14448888
It leads to autoritarism in all cases communism has been tried

>>14448855
based
fuck women and jannies

Is Marx's "communism" a prescriptive thing, or is it just the form he believed that human society would eventually take? I haven't read him.

>>14448892
Some of the freest countries in the world have active Socialist and Communist parities which play important roles in their government, but ok

>>14448925
>North Korea
>Freest country
terrible bait

>>14448946
I was referring to Western European nations. Nice strawman friendo

>>14448951
Those aren't socialist countries just because they have universal healthcare

>>14448986
>just because a country has many social programs doesnt make it socialist
Yes it does, but keep thinking its capitalism that keeps everybody fed and healthy and society productive... not just making the rich elite even more untouchable and wealthy to control the government and enforce laws and regulations on the citizens for their own benefit.

>>14448986
>Some of the freest countries in the world have active Socialist and Communist parties which play important roles in their government, but ok
Show me the part where I said that the countries themselves are Socialist

>>14448718
Plato

>>14448718
Engels

Diogenes
Socrates
Epicurus
John Locke
Bertrand Russell
Neil Tyson
"The Dude"

>>14449019
>>14448837
0/5

>>14448888>>14448718

Kinda this. Just read Marx-Engels reader to get the gist on him instead of knee jerking. You can separate an author from their influences. I’m not a marxists, but people who badmouth him without even reading his shit should go to the autism pits.

>>14448888
Marx:
>So long as the other classes, especially the capitalist class, still exists, so long as the proletariat struggles with it (for when it attains government power its enemies and the old organization of society have not yet vanished), it must employ forcible [gewaltsame, also: violent] means, hence governmental means.

>was primarily only concerned with promoting the values of the French Revolution (liberty, equality, fraternity)
Idiocy. Marx:
Engels:
>The concept of a socialist society as a realm of equality is a one-sided French concept deriving from the old "liberty, equality, fraternity," a concept which was justified in that, in its own time and place, it signified a phase of development, but which, like all the one-sided ideas of earlier socialist schools, ought now to be superseded, since they produce nothing but mental confusion, and more accurate ways of presenting the matter have been discovered.
Marx:
>What this reveals, on the other side, is the foolishness of those socialists (namely the French, who want to depict socialism as the realization of the ideals of bourgeois society articulated by the French revolution [here's your liberty, equality, fraternity]) who demonstrate that exchange and exchange value etc. are originally (in time) or essentially (in their adequate form) a system of universal freedom and equality, but that they have been perverted by money, capital, etc. … The proper reply to them is: that exchange value or, more precisely, the money system is in fact the system of equality and freedom, and that the disturbances which they encounter in the further development of the system are disturbances inherent in it, are merely the realization of equality and freedom [again], which prove to be inequality and unfreedom.

>>14448902
It's not prescriptive. He describes what the ultimate goal of the struggle of the proletariat must necessarily be if the struggle is to ever end. He also discovers that in the emancipation of the proletariat is contained the emancipation of entire human species. But he doesn't prescribe them the struggle because people have already been doing that on their own forever.

>>14449029
>I rate Plato

>>14449093
you realize Plato was LITERALLY alt-right?

Every single anglo "philosopher"

>>14449111
How is Hobbes reddit lmfao idiot

>Communism is statist authoritarianism!!!!!!

Meanwhile in liberal democracy all the truly important decisions in society are taken by boards of directors in private multinational companies, which makes society a dictatorship just as much as "statist authoritarianism" does.

>>14449138
>0 understanding of geopolitics or the world in general
Based retard

>>14449145
And you have zero arguments against what I said and that's because you know I'm right.

>>14448865
This. At least Marx wasn't a cuck that wilfully accepted to raise not one but two of the children his bull had sired on his wife. In fact Marx did the opposite. He cucked his wife and knocked up his servant and didn't even bother to raise the child.

>>14448888
He thought the ideals of the French revolution were the ideals of the bourgeois state you absolute retard.

Liberals read everything through the lens of liberal capitalism. For them history and society has always been enthralled by the commodity.

Robert Greene

Did Marx ever promote something akin to current left wing degeneracy? My country's old communist party was quite conservative on societal issues and the USSR was also rather conservative except for the very early days. The Communist Manifeso ambiguously hints at some degree of degeneracy but it seems to be a ploy to attack the degeneracy of bourgeois families of his time. The Origin of the Family seems to be full blown degenerate but i read it might have been a work of Engels with little to no input from Marx. What is the truth?

>>14449236
He says the bourgeoisie are degenerates and that capitalism breaks down social bonds/heirarchies/norms at such a rate that degenerate blooms.

>>14448810
Implying...

>>14449244
That was clear from the manifesto and I agree. That being said what seems to be proposed as a replacement in the Origin of the Family is abhorrent to me. Was it just a pet project or Engels or did Marx share those ideas?

>>14448718

>>14449236
He did not because the current "left wing" degeneracy is a natural result of liberalism and individualism and not any actual left-wing worldview or politics.

Literally all of the social justice warrior-type rhetoric always devolves into the pathetic liberal argument that people can do whatever they want with their lives and their bodies as long as they don't hurt anyone else, regardless of what this does to society.

This is also the reason why these same people think that being against open borders means you're a racist by definition, because any restriction on human beings freedom of movement is seen as illegitimate for the same exact pathetic bourgeois liberal reason.

>>14449289
This one is so Reddit that he's beyond Reddit.

Plato

>>14448718

Hobbes

>>14448986
>But we can't have universal healthcare in the US because that's socialism

that would be some brainlet pop """"philosopher""""" like sam harris

>>14448832
>tfw my crush is from Sinope and I tried to impress her with Diogenes but she didnt have a clue what i was playing at

>>14448718
Russel and other angloids. Marx was fairly low on the redditness scale.

>>14448888
never seen such a dumb post with quads. probably gods way to bring attention to this retard to humiliate him

>>14449097
are you suggesting that is not reddit as fuck?

>>14448718
I guarantee you the average Redditor has only read the Manifesto, if even that.

Stirner

>>14448888
Marx believed the Banks had to be centralized and given absolute power to the authorities that run it.

>>14449892
mitä vittua muuta poltat? plato on based, kun reddit on soija

>>14449981
Marx believed money should be abolished and banks with it.

>>14448810
That would make him extremely based.

>>14449277

How is it abhorrent? Most American leftists would probably call Engels conclusions either romanticism or somewhat reactionary since sex and romance are more than they were previously considered a kind of free for all grab bag of indulgences. Engels believed class society in general, not just capitalism, perverted human sexual and romantic relationships to be about property and retention of class status, so that marriages were shams to either bring in dowry's or secure some kind of familial alliance while the husband may go off and have affairs of passion that were simultaneously considered immoral. This all seemed like hypocrisy and decadence to him, so he believed that the abolition of class society would free people to have marriages and families based on genuine love for the partner.

Personally I don't agree, I do think he was being romantic and simply felt revulsion for the duplicity he saw in other of his class that he was familiar with. He wanted to believe that with the overthrow of class society relationships would become more "pure".

>>14448882
You can go way back in time, Plato's Callipolis is by every account a communist society

>>14451345
You can't. Communism is not about abstract imagined societies but about the struggle of the proletariat.

>>14451559
There is no struggle nor no proletariat in Callipolis. Also Plato thought that the political project described in Republic wasn't a mere ideal, he believed that it could be implemented (although his frame of reference was the city-state, which means that we cannot replicate it in our time).

>>14448718

>>14448718

>>14448787
>in bad faith?
you discount everything else you say by saying this faggot shit

>>14451578
>There is no struggle nor no proletariat in Callipolis.
That's why we can't go back to that time when speaking about communism
>Also Plato thought that the political project described in Republic wasn't a mere ideal, he believed that it could be implemented
Yes, that's the general idea with utopianism. People usually come up with those schemes because they sincerely believe that they can be implemented.

Reddit is neoliberal as hell and whenever presented with Marxist ideas cry and retreat to the fascists they secretly and not so secretly are. Well, the overwhelming majority. There are some pretty decent subreddits. Of course, this is only able to be viewed if you don't partake in Internet tribalism.

The majority are capitalist cucks, though.

>>14451846
>reddit is fascist and hates communism
You live in a literal fantasy land. There are multiple popular socialist boards and there is not even a single fascist board on the site, unless it's some tiny 100 member thing that hasnt been noticed by mods.

>>14451851
Any cop board is fascist.

>>14451874
I know you really, really want to larp as a rebel or whatever, but you're not rebellious, commies in 2019 are literally the pets of the progressives. If you hate cops so much then stop calling them and get a gun

>>14451851
All the popular reddit "socialist" boards are anti-communist. This was hands down the most surprising thing I learned after going from a clueless centrist to seriously studying communism.

From what I 've seen reedit isn't really any worse than 4chan when it comes to understanding philosophy. Do you guys seriously think that 4chan is full of erudite intellectuals or something, the average anon's understanding of philosophy is embarrassingly shit.

>>14448787
He was a commie? thats enough to warrant a painful and slow death

>>14453517
it's more that you can't post on any reddit board unless you agree with their little gay groupthink so it roots out anybody who actually tries to understand things, because that might lead you to say the wrong thing, and it's much more important that you agree with their faggot ideology than that you make a coherent argument for anything. It's a preconscious level of slavish cuntiness.

Reddit attracts people who have no social capital or ability so they won't post on twitter or wherever, but they still want to have little hugbox where if anybody says something that is too mean they'll just get banned and their post deleted, so that they can all pat each other on the backs for being little faggots that are sucking each other off and casting out the bad guy. It's like an entire website of soccer moms who think they have opinions that matter, and the only way they can reinforce their opinion mattering is by belonging to some little faggot tribe that doesn't let anybody say shit they don't like, but they're still too much of bitches to actually just post on the real social media sites. They are the worst part of 4chan combined with the worst part of twitter.

God they're fucking repulsive

>>14453540
>It's more that you can't post on any reddit board unless you agree with their little gay groupthink so it roots out anybody who actually tries to understand things, because that might lead you to say the wrong thing, and it's much more important that you agree with their faggot ideology than that you make a coherent argument for anything. It's a preconscious level of slavish cuntiness.

I would be more sympathetic to that point of view if I haven't seen how the alternative turns out in practice. Here on 4chan we have very light moderation, where everyone is free to post his or her opinion, and yet what's the overall quality of threads? Roughly the same as Reddit's. Making a coherent argument is less important than agreeing with someone's faggot ideology here as well, so we don't get points on that front either. I don't post on Reddit because of the normie-friendly culture but I don't buy into the social media tribe wars either, the amount of quality posting we have is equivalent to theirs (that is, not a whole lot).

>>14448718
How would marx view current rap culture

>>14448718

>>14448718
but i thought reddit was cringe???

Marx isn't reddit he was a diabolic anti-classist jew.

Zizek is the real redditor, an unkempt foreign pervert with a speech impediment.

And while we are at it of coarse Diogenes is 4chan, smelly unwashed unloved street urchin, only real insight is by dissecting normies like Aristotle. Proud to be a dog.

>>14448758
>I'm not a rapper

Sartre is the most reddit philosopher. He literally looked like a bugman and despite being an atheist and believing there is no inherent meaning to life was a humanist obsessed with muh freedom. I know of two separate porn stars, Charlotte Sartre and Sasha Grey, who are inspired by his bug philosophy, and they are the types of nasty whores who if man-sized cockroaches existed would probably have sex with them on camera. Actually, maybe he is the /d/ philosopher.

>>14448888
Based quads

Using the term "philosopher" liberally:
>nu-atheists/retards/meme-"thinkers"
Dennet, Harris, Pinker, Peterson, etc.
these are by far the most reddit "philosophers", I don't think this is debatable
>pop-anglo/liberal (in a classical sense) "philosophers"
Locke, Russell, Popper, etc.
They love to grab quotes from these guys to support some "I'm so rational and love science" non-opinion.
>pop-existentialist philosophers
Sartre, Camus, etc.
Babby's first existential crisis

>>14448787
Hegelian trash that should have been forgotten among with the others.
More specific to Marx, technological determinism is possibly the single most brainlet take on history and anthropology I have ever witnessed.

>>14448865
Nothing even comes close.

>>14448718
Redditors are all libs. They love John Rawls and hate Marx.

popper,
nietzsche (in a very superficial way mind you)
russell
kropotkin

The true reddit philosopher?
Dawkins.

>>14455199
>what is chapo trap house

>>14448787
>bad faith
The only people who ever use this term are people who whine that they ever have to argue for their stances and opinions.
>hurr im not gonna give evidence because you're only arguing in bad faith anyway REEEEEEEEE

>>14455704
Theyre hardly better. Pic fucking related

>>14455704
It's a bunch of retards who like to namedrop Marx but still align with liberals much more than with communists (muh morality, muh democracy, muh freedom, muh veganism, muh socdem popular politicians, etc.).