/lit/ - Literature

>>14294882
>brothels are the new churches,
kind of retarded. Universities are clearly the new churches, with the press being a sort of daily/weekly sermon for them

>>14294896
Do you know what he meant by it though? Thats kind of what I'm asking

>>14294882
>link between sensuality and spirituality
the senses are accessory to the spirit
>brothels are the new churches
worshipping the almighty brapper

>>14294906
Now that's a religion I can get behind if you comprehend what I'm hinting at

>>14294882
The exaltation of one debases the other. That is why the exaltation of the flesh at the expense of the spirit runs into the same crisis as the exaltation of the spirit at the expense of the flesh; and why they both meet in ritual. Both are ultimately forms of cruelty and self-exaltation. It is possible to behave without abuse or cruelty towards the concrete world, towards animals and so forth without lapsing into either irresponsible sentimentality or absurd abstemiousness. Otherwise you end up with absurd principles, like the idea that all killing is murder or that all sexuality is rape--isn't it true? Take Tolstoy, for instance: wasn't he, ultimately, a Gnostic? Wasn't he, in the end, a heretic like Schopenhauer, who saw no essential distinction between Manichaenism and Christianity? Who couldn't help but mock at St. Augustine and St. Clement for their defense of the latter against the former? Next, Gandhi sleeps with nude women and deprives his children of meat. Isn't it all a bit excessive, a bit disconcerting? Isn't there something off about it all? An ascetic, sleeping next to a voluptuous and nubile devotee ready to spiral into intense delirium and commit sacred transgressions, disallowed to the profane, for the same deity whose name her austere consort whispers to himself incessantly? What are you to think, as an onlooker, when you see sensuality and continence sleeping in the same bed? Won't you think, what privileges them to what is disallowed to me? Or does it all appear quite natural to you, who knows that, for the powerful, carnality yields different results, and that great strength allows the mighty to indulge in inebriations which would overwhelm a weaker subject? Therefore, the austere priest only prepares, economizes, not wasting his vitality on the unprofitable. Instead of debasing himself with his spouse like the multitudes, instead of producing children, he and she guide one another to the garden of the worthy, and there begin a special kind of courtship, balanced upon the edge of a knife, that draws a poison, especially potent, which acts as a kind of elixir for the wise, for those who know how harness its violent effects. Yes, there, the brothel is mistaken for a church--or is it the other way around? It depends on who you ask.

>>14294896
If you mean sensuality in the sense of sensible phenomenon then nothing. If you mean sensuality in the sense of eroticism then it relates as a barrier. Brothels are the new churches because man worships and idolises flesh. Its the bane of modernity. Dont get me wrong. I'm not an ascetic or a christcow but the chain of command is, imo, woman worships man and man worships G-d (not a rigidly fixed opinion but I reckon you get the jist).

That said I can see a divine sense of senaulity in the idea of omnipresence in which G-d continually embraces creation and sustains it with his love and mercy. Sensuality, treated with respect (between adults in covenant), is the vehicle through which G-d's joy in creation, through our consciousness, is maintained. Its a microcosmic emmenation that reflects the ecstasy the Creator takes in (H)is creation.

I dunno though. I haven't read bataille.

Wall Street is this age’s Vatican, banks and insurance brokerages are the new churches.
We worship the phantom value bestowed in bits of paper, metals and plastic. We also worship the almighty Invisible Hand of the market.

At no time have people in any great mass worshiped sex workers and placed them in positions of power. This is just a sex fantasy.
A “link between sensuality and spirituality”?
The latter is described as a mental inner, while the former is a purely physical sensation. But people don’t understand that the mental life is also physical. The faithful like to work themselves up into rapturous joy for god and whatnot. Mental masturbation really. Different organ is all

>What is the link between sensuality and spirituality?

Are you a Jew?

>>14296425
>a mental inner ecstasy

>>14294882
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limit-experience

>>14296426
Are you a /pol/tard outside of their containment board?

"She was seated, she held one long leg stuck up in the air, to open her crack yet wider she used her fingers to draw the folds of skin apart . .. 'Why', I stammered in a subdued tone, 'why are you doing that?' 'You can see for yourself ', she said, 'I'm GOD'"

>>14296439
Just a friendly question. Bit of a hunch, haha.

i wish there were as many brothels as there are churches

>>14296504
Wait do you want more brothels or less brothels?

>>14294901
petit mort

>>14294882
Hafez

>>14296523
more brothels. higher supply will lead to lower prices.

>>14296425
your shitty beliefs are a smaller part of the new church. you must feel so special and unique for being slightly different from them! you clearly can think for yourself

>>14296554
What are you even trying to refer to?

>>14296565
Stop same fagging

>>14296523
>>14296553
I just wish Analbabsi would do more church resacramentations.

>>14296573
Is there anything more fucking annoying than people who pretend to be Butterfly?

>>14296584
thats porn. why would you lead pure, untainted minds like mine to the temptations of debauchery.

>>14296584
Oof!

>>14294882
Aquinas says that the ‘shape’ of the soul—what it knows, what it is, its inclinations, etc.—is determined by sense experience. Humans are imbued with a spirit that mediates spiritual concepts through matter and images of matter. Aquinas, unlike (perhaps) Augustine—who mourns man’s slavery to temporal succession—thinks this is natural and good.

The ecstatic experience is an extremely sensual one: panting for divinity, moaning under the stigmata. The erotic analogies might seem vulgar to us, but were, I think, commonplace in the past—if used sensitively. The Song of Solomon and occasionally Augustine’s works use erotic language to evoke man’s relationship to his creator... not to mention the whole metaphor of the conjugal relation that’s used to describe the relationship between Christ and his church. Strange that in some ways sex is more taboo? We’re constantly shouting sex’s virtues from the rooftops, patting ourselves on the back for how “liberated” we are, and yet we squirm to see sexuality mingle with religion, even if we’re atheists. Do we somehow find sex less innocent and more puerile than the ‘sexual pessimists’ of Christian Europe?

>>14294896
Fpbp

>>14296774
Universities aren’t bases or power in the least.

>>14294896
Its got more to do with the experience of ecstasy than earthly power structures.

>>14296781
>dogmatic institution that controls what is regarded as truth and encourages acolytes to disrupt those who disagree with violence if needed
>has no power

What

>>14296781
God you’re insufferable. You’re the most paper thin “leftist” in the whole world. read your fucking theory.

>>14296813
They put you into debt, accept and pass wealthy dumb students. Control nothing, their dogma holds about as much weight as television. Don’t we believe Professor Bloom anymore? Oh, are you not from /lit/? I see the problem now.

No, it’s as I said above. It is high finance that is the third layer of the “judeo-christianity”

Some Hegelian wizardry about negations, finites and infinites

>>14296971
>They put you into debt, accept and pass wealthy dumb students. Control nothing, their dogma holds about as much weight as television.

Television/ media is the largest propaganda tool there is , that's a lot of weight . what are you on about?

>>14297419
Capitalism

>>14294882
may i adress the op pic for a moment.
i have a genuine religious fetish (more sensual and psychological than straight-up sexual) and those cheap ass MUH SLUTTY NUN or JACKED PORNSTAR PRIEST just make me recoil. it's like putting wrapper on shit and calling it a candy. vulgar, thoughtless profanation of such profound and beautiful symbols and characters.

nun headdress on a whore with painted face is especially popular and cringy.

>>14296426
Are you Antisemite?

>>14296425
Fuck off with this wall street talk, you don't know a single thing about what they do.

>>14294896
Universities are literally whorehouses tho

>>14295120
Very well written, is it yours? Do you have a blog?

>>14294882
What a stupid fucking question. I'm replying because you wasted my life with your post. Fuck you

>>14295120

What is the meaning of open-ended shit-eating questions? Can it be that there is not a single meaningful subject and predicate in that whole pile of shit? Are we to believe that you have no comprehension of Logic other than a dimension of rhetoric in service of cretinous dogma?

>>14294882
to make a critique (following late Kant) it's important to find your object of study at its genealogical root. so then, we need to look at the story of the Fall. The punishment for adam's transgression is an insistent doubt. Ironically, this doubt is what make's us human (following Heidegger here). this doubt, though, opens up a world in which we are able to find meaning. to be able to have an idea, or a concept, a question - doubt - needs to be thought in order to proceed. In Dante's Paradiso, there was no need for Adam to talk, God is self evident, language is not necessary. In fact, there are no questions in heaven. After the Fall, God is obscured by words, so interpretation becomes necessary. there is a problem of access. Although we have the word of God, how do we interpret the word faithfully? this is the central question. one must, in the process of interpretation, resist conceptual schemes, as this will only further obscure God in doubt. So then, like Dante's Adam, it's imperative to rely on God's sense. The threat is, that the sense must be transcendent, and not autochthonous. the autochthonous only affirms the individual, it's vulgar and brutal. the transcendent obliterates the individual and extends sense outward toward the sublime. At root it's an aesthetic experience. It's a process of aesthesis. this is what i think is the link between sensuality and spirituality.

>>14296493
Madame Edwarda is a great récit

>>14297554
You don’t understand what’s being discussed here, little boy. Run along.

>>14294882
>What is the link between sensuality and spirituality?
Creativity, control and energy are the largest factors I can think of. Naturally they have their derivatives, and we'd be starving without them.

>>14296425
>At no time have people in any great mass worshiped sex workers and placed them in positions of power.
Byzantine Empress Theodora was a whore who rose to power.

>>14296425
That's the institutions and a symbol. The core beliefs are those of equality, humanism and secularism. The new moldbugian cathedral, in other words.

>>14298232
>to make a critique (following late Kant) it's important to find your object of study at its genealogical root. so then, we need to look at the story of the Fall. The punishment for adam's transgression is an insistent doubt. Ironically, this doubt is what make's us human (following Heidegger here). this doubt, though, opens up a world in which we are able to find meaning. to be able to have an idea, or a concept, a question - doubt - needs to be thought in order to proceed. In Dante's Paradiso, there was no need for Adam to talk, God is self evident, language is not necessary. In fact, there are no questions in heaven. After the Fall, God is obscured by words, so interpretation becomes necessary. there is a problem of access. Although we have the word of God, how do we interpret the word faithfully? this is the central question. one must, in the process of interpretation, resist conceptual schemes, as this will only further obscure God in doubt. So then, like Dante's Adam, it's imperative to rely on God's sense. The threat is, that the sense must be transcendent, and not autochthonous. the autochthonous only affirms the individual, it's vulgar and brutal. the transcendent obliterates the individual and extends sense outward toward the sublime. At root it's an aesthetic experience. It's a process of aesthesis. this is what i think is the link between sensuality and spirituality.
have sex

>>14294896
t.

>>14298264
She was an actress, and Procopius was a typical sexless pervert that hated the people that housed and fed him

>>14298272
The financial sector of this giant ugly commercial empire is more than symbol. Yeah, there’s a core belief to liberalism, but the laws are bent and broken to make way for the wealthy all the time. Secularism tries to embrace all religions in the name of the higher god of profit. Just admit I’m right

>>14298342
>Yeah, there’s a core belief to liberalism, but the laws are bent and broken to make way for the wealthy all the time.
Yes, but they make economic compromises all the time. Mass immigration of low iq people might be good business now, but the demographic change sure won't be. LGBT movement and general division of the sexes may be profitable on the short term, but when new consumers aren't born...

>>14298361
You aren’t following what’s going on at all.

tread extremely carefully when asking this so as to avoid a death worse than and before physical death.

>>14298373
start by praying for the person that brought this image into existence

>>14296425
>The latter is described as a mental inner, while the former is a purely physical sensation

Jesus Christ you sound like a boring fuck. There’s as much mental in sex as physical.

>>14298232
>Dante
Lmao, imagine citing selfinsert fanfic.

>>14295120
nice

Sex is the lowest form of spiritual oneness, in a sexually repressed society people crave it but now in the west it has lost much of it's appeal. There is energy work that be done within sex but that's not going to happen with a whore.

Does it have anything to do with the Holy Fool stereotype that is found in literature? People like Sonya despite being the lowest of the low have a stronger connection to the highest of the high, God. Is it because their innocence can not be sinful?

>>14298518
Forgot my picture

>>14297017

I think that this post comes closest although that long post was very interesting and good. Bataille was very influenced by Kojeve?s lectures on Hegel. There are no philosophers farther apart than Descartes and Hegel. In the one, we have an absolute distinction between mind and body with mind being the proxy of spirit, or soul. In the other, we have spirit as mind and body meeting each other and fractionally negating each other. They are not separate, as each has a kernel of the other inside itself, released by the mutual negation and recombined into something different than either. It is no coincidence that one of the primary occupations of all spiritual searches is what happens to us after we die and that orgasm is actually a brief death. Our hearts stop for a moment. It is literally tachycardia. Their is an ecstasy of sensuality through which you can break through the prison house of the flesh into pure spirit.

>>14298534

So sex can be a tool of spirituality like magic mushrooms?

There is none. There are simply insecure pseuds trying to dress their clownish lusts up as something noble and sentimental or sincere. Spirituality couldn’t be further from this.

>>14298521
is she be lit's new waifu?

>>14298993
Her and Charlotte are our pornfus

To begin with, the Idea that brothels are the new churches is one that is old as all fuck, as Blake, in the XVIII century put it; "Prisons are built with stones of Law, Brothels with bricks of Religion."

But here is the thing between sensuality and spirituality, both are direct opposites, as in the way the experiences required for the ecstasies of both are strictly opposite and excludent of the other. The elevation of spirituality requires the complete understanding of reason and self-control; for one to understand the spirit at large without being utterly destroyed by the experience the compreehension of the limits of reason are necessary, and this understanding must not be abstract, but based on actual experience. Kant's Critique of Pure Reason explains this pretty well, but you will not undestand the world as Kant did because you do cannot share the experiences of Kant. As such, spirituality can only be developed trough self-experience, be it contemplative or based on insights. It's merely one of the paths, but as it is, there is no link between sensuality and spirituality - unless you count the obssessive search for compreehension as an extension of passion, and so, of sensuality.

Sensuality by itself may be an ascension, but the insights of sensuality are much more intuitive, as such is the nature of the body. Practices like the Tantra and other radical sensate paths seek to induce such states of being trough sex and substances that alter the perception of reality. In the end, the Saint and the Libertine share the same instinctive compreehension of the world, but such compreehension cannot be found in the many middle terms between Saints and Libertines, altrough, it can be argued that nihilism obtained after a profound analysis of reality may also lead one to spiritual illumination, but, that disputed amongst both philosophers and mystics.

In summa, spirituality is developed at the cost of self, and the attempt to develop both the insights of the flesh and of the spirit at the same time is one that is inherently contradictory. To walk the middle path is to live at the cost of intensity, it certainly leads to preservation and security, even to a quiet mind, but it will never lead one to that deathly consuming fire. The impulse is too weak, too anxious, too attached to confort.

>>14295120
This is a pretty good post. A bit too flowery for a place like this, but, a good post, nonetheless.

>>14298974

Wrong. I’m volcel and I am now more spiritually corrupt than I was when I was having sex all the time.

>>14299149
Celibacy by itself is useless. Thinking you will automatically become a better, more spiritual person simply by not having sex is vacuous as it can be - if anything, it indicates you should quit this stance and try something else, that actually resonates with the way you live your life. Don't force yourself on a path that is destructive for yourself for it will be destrutive on others.

>>14299181
>Don't force yourself on a path that is destructive for yourself, for it will be destrutive on others.'

>>14296593
Butterfly

>>14298264
Expiring rather than rule and was not exulted for that work. When concubines are exulted for their crafts it’s for the labors of that craft, ie children. They may be exulted for other reasons l, but usually not because of the carnal act itself.

>>14299213
Not wrong, but not right either.

>>14298038
BASED

>>14298448
>There’s as much mental in sex as physical.
Just what I said

>>14294906
Breasts are better than butts, and therefore more worthy of reverence.

Bataille wasn't for any looser standards of sexuality. You also have to make the distinction between works of eroticism and actual sexual activity. He said the brothel thing more as a criticism of how people were falling out of religiosity and the feeling of religious ecstasy becoming more and more rare

>>14294882
Sex creates life therefore it is a divine act as you have the power of god to create another human. This is obvious.

>>14299600
>sex creates life

Does not follow.

>there it is a divine act

Does not follow.

>and you have the power of god to create another human

Does not follow.

>>14299624
Retard alert

>>14294882
>What is the link between sensuality and spirituality?
an excess of estrogen.

>>14299546
>Breasts > butts
Isn't /lit/ supposed to be the intelligent board?

>>14299679
This is true though. Lactation is hotter than asslicking.

>>14299685
I'm looking at it them as forms, not actions that are dependant on them

>>14299679
Butts are just deformed boobs. And while the latter provides sacred milk, the former provides...

>>14299694
Oh then definately. Boobs are like male genetalia, the larger the better sexually, but not aesthetically.

>>14299679
Evidently not if your kind are allowed here

>>14294882
>What is the link between sensuality and spirituality?

The denial of sensuality is the revitalization of the spirit. That's it.

>>14299727
>like male genetalia, the larger the better sexually
source?

>>14300269
t. Friction

>"modern "philosopher" says something provocative for the sake of being provocative"
>wow societal institutions have similarities, who would've thought??

>>14299697
> latter provides sacred milk
For a limited amount of time, while the other is always producing, like a sun one could say...