/lit/ - Literature

>>14275571
no.

>>14275571
based aesop

>no.

Does degenerate ebonics count for unique words?

>>14275571
who's the guy with more words?

>>14275604
aesop rock

baesed

Some artists require a broad knowledge of culture and deeper knowledge of rap to understand the references, placing it on the level of the poetry rap battles in the Genji. It was also one of the first genres to include metadata within the song itself as a postmodern critique on the way music is shared and discovered. I'd say it can be /lit/, but rarely. It is however most often an intellectual shitpost and inside joke calling upon the vernacular culture and a collage of literary and musical allusions to weave the tale of the illest MC and his alleged prowess. It's interdisciplinary performance art.

>>14275571
This methodology is beyond moronic. It conflates variety with complexity and worse yet conflates complexity with meaning and worst of all conflates meaning with virtue.
Bukowski's 'Wisdom of the Crowd' has more artistic merit than this entire gaggle of negroes.

>>14275595
This. Their vocabulary is grossly inflated by nigger slang

>>14275571
>average english speakers active vocab is 20k words

>>14275571
Where the fuck is viper

>>14275571

you could stack up a thousand kind of different turds but at the end he would still be a giant pile of shit.

>>14275571
>white man in the lead
color me shocked

>>14275571
Read it as can rape be /lit/?
KEK!

No

Any song lyrics are literature and can be analysed as such. This doesn't make them particularly interesting.

>>14275704
LOL that's funny.

No. Next question.

>>14275571
no.

>>14275820
he's jewish

I know this is about to be a majorly hot take on a board infested by /pol/ but I think a lot of white people's dismissal of rap as a whole ultimately stems on some level from racism.

Growing up in a very white environment I heard from a very early age rap is crap, rap isn't real music, etc. Other white people around me would imitate it like
>NIGGA NIGGA NIGGA MUFFUKA BITCH HOE
and shit like that. And it was considered weird to be into it. I still get really weird reactions from white people about listening to rap sometimes. But I bought that and thought rap was shit until I actually gave it a try and started listening to rap other than what was on top 40 radio.

A lot of rap esp. from the 90's deals with people sharing their experiences of being on the streets, being affected by gang violence, racism, drug epidemics, all that shit. It doesn't present itself in standard English or present a perspective that highly educated whites are going to be too familiar with, but it's inventive and expressive in its own way. But you don't have to engage with any of it if you think African American Vernacular English is just broken English and your language ideologies with respect to that dialect barrier prevent you from listening to any rap song without expecting it to be about "IMMA BUST A CAP IN YO ASS MUFFUCKA" or some shit

>>14276078
yeah right, rap is indie and every single white person (besides you) hates it and is racist right right
you're so special you might even have a pass to say hard E nigger

>>14275708
>Bukowski's 'Wisdom of the Crowd' has more artistic merit than this entire gaggle of negroes.
no, it unironically doesn't.

>>14276095
>yeah right, rap is indie and every single white person (besides you) hates it and is racist right right
Did I say that? Certainly not every white person hates rap, otherwise it wouldn't be one of the most popular genres of music in the mainstream. I also don't think every person who dislikes rap does so because of racism. People have different tastes. What I am saying is that there exists a discourse around rap music in the United States that does have racism embedded into it. Do you want to address that argument or do you just want to sneer?

Honestly I would think on a literature board people would try to actually have discussions instead of just getting bitter when they see opinions they don't like, but I guess this is still 4chan.

Yes but hip hop culture is too caught up with shit like "I just pulled up in a Ghost (Ghost)
Fucked that bitch up out in London (up out in)
Then I fucked up on her cousin
Or her sister, I don't know nothin' (uh-uh, woo)". Its more about making music that pumps you up rather than trying to be some kind of high brow art form

No one here listens to hip hop. You can tell by how you guys refer to it as rap which is a singing style not a genre

>>14276143
I don't even think Bukowski is particularly good, I was choosing a middling poet.

>>14275717
t. guy whose vocabulary is 90 % French
At least they bother speaking their own language. Why don’t you go rest of the way and use French grmmar too?

>>14276078

look at this wigger thinking he's the only white person to ever listen to rap

>>14276078
You sound like some with a very small modicum of intellect who was deeply misinformed but then projects that misinformation onto everyone else. It's a very common symptom on a certain website I don't want to name, where people parade out extremely banal talking points and act as if they are profound revelations when they are only profound revelations to THEMSELVES. I have listened to a lot of rap, I have listened to experimental rap, jazz infused rap, reggae infused rap, Run DMC, Wu Tang Clan, Death Grips, etc etc. I don't think rap is inferior because it doesn't deal with complex themes, I KNOW it is inferior because it doesn't actually deal with complex or interesting themes. There is nothing interesting about gang warfare, there is nothing interesting in dealing with drug addiction, loneliness, exploitation, etc. I say this as a person who grew up dirt poor, there is nothing meaningful to say about the topic. The problem is most people conflate art with propaganda and so the value of art is the extent to which is discusses some facet of the human condition than can be extrapolated into political talking points.
For many people discussing the same societal ills day after day constitutes intellectual discourse. I'm not going to expound on what, in my opinion, constitutes merit in art, but I will simply say this, no one who is actually well read (at the very least all of harold blooms western canon) can sincerely believe rap has merit unless to score diversity points with their peers.

>>14276285
> I don't think rap is inferior because it doesn't deal with complex themes, I KNOW it is inferior because it doesn't actually deal with complex or interesting themes
Nothing better than rap to keep these people marginalized culturally and intellectually then. Not that i give a fuck, desu.

The only rap single I like is Gangsta's Paradise by Coolio because it's a self-aware sober critique of the gangsta lifestyle

>>14276067
Are you sure? Wikipedia says his family is catholic and his real name, Bavitz, doesn't seem to be Jewish in spite of a superficial resemblance with Jewish names like "Horowitz" and the likes.

>>14276285
based anon schooling every motherfucker up in this bitch

>>14276067
Jewish people are white

>>14276443
We all came from Africa, we're all afro-americans.

>>14275571

The only rap group you need is Digital Underground.

>>14276285

>nothing interesting about addiction or poverty or loneliness

Sounds like you've had hard experiences, anon, so I'm sorry. But as someone who also grew up poor and has been surrounded by exactly those things, I respectfully disagree. Those kinds of experiences feed meaningful themes. Suffering is the creche of creativity.

No, because it's not written.

Yes.

I wrote some raps that made sure that my lifeline reekin'
The scent of a reaper, ensurin' that my allegiance
With the other side may come soon, and if I'm doomed
May the womb of my mother be blessed for many moons

Rap is a performance art more than a literary art
Dosent mean it's inherently any worse as an art form because they are incomparable

Rap is CRAP! LMAO.

>my nigga DOOM out-/lit/-ing Shakespeare

>>14276399
It's typical /pol/ nonsense. Aesop is 100% amerimutt with some major irish features

Lil Ugly Mane more like /lit/ ugly mane

>>14275571
Deca - The Ocean is an excellent album about Jungian Humanism and self reflection. It is probably the only really good rap album I have ever heard and it's not tryhard like asoep rock

Can ANY contemporary music be /lit/? The answer is a big fat NO. The only /lit/ music is classical

Even if their lyrics aren't Joyce a lot of artists live a pretty interesting life

>>14276581
cope

>>14276078
Musically I would say Bone Thugz 1999 Eternal is one of the most technically competent albums but let's be honest, that's because they sing it lmao. The melodies, feuds, and harmonies on that album are extremely unique. As someone who doesn't really care about lyrics but enjoys music itself, that album is a great one.

I support any music that increases black on black crime.

>>14276603
Bob dylan is a boomer meme and he couldn't even fucking sing. Lyrics are by far the least important part of music and only people who are completely uneducated and untallented at music glob onto them. I will never respect hipsters who can't play a 9th chord touting terrible musicians like The Mountain Goats because they relate to their gay little poems. I listen to a lot of foreign music so I don't have to inflict myself to the dumb little narratives and especially to full rhymes.

>>14276603
Dylan is far overrated. Even his teacher Ginsberg is better and Ginsberg was one of the worst poets of the 20th century

>>14276599
Zoom zoom

>>14275571
THE RZA, THE GZA, Ol' Dirty Bastard, Inspectah Deck Raekwon the Chef, U-God, Ghostface Killah and... the Method Man

>>14276645
Lil Peep was at the tail end of Gen Y influenced himself mostly by Gen X music like My Chemical Romance and Blink 182

>>14276650

>>14276655
Listeners are generally 10 years younger than the artists they listen to

>>14275571
>This thread again.

The worst part is that this is an obvious bait thread, but there are still retards on this board that actually believe that a bunch of niggers rambling about their life in the ghetto with an incomprehensible jargon has some sort of literary relevance. It does not, let this meme die.

>>14276663
I doubt 10 year olds were listening to lil peep. People don't just stop listening to new music once they hit 20

>>14276703
10 year olds absolutely love lil peep, xxx, billie eilish etc.

>>14276709
I'm just saying that there is probably a ton of 20-30 year olds that listened to him too even if artists typically influence the people younger than them

>>14276655
And don't forget lil B, Bladee and yung lean, of course.

>>14276724
Lol maybe retards did

Why do we have this thread every other day?

>>14275806
He is beyond in another state of being smooking big rocks fucking nasty hoes and making new albums

>>14276263
i'd rather be a romaboo than a niggaboo

>>14275571
No, but I'd like to see where immortal technique sits on the chart, just out of morbid curiousity.

>>14276638
Why are you so angry about that drunken bum from the Mountain goats being more creative then you'll ever be.

>Ayyyyoooo what rhymes with nigga

To suggest Wu Tang has a better grasp of English than Shakespeare is laughable.

https://youtu.be/iHnNLfc0OX0

>>14276285
>website I don't want to name, where people parade out extremely banal talking points and act as if they are profound revelations
>proceeds to do the same
>mfw
my favorite part was when you pretended to listen to hip hop

>>14275571

Verbosity does not equal ability.

>>14275571

DMX actually the most based here. Understands that the medium is viable because of aggression and rebellion.
Hip hop ain't English class, it's about being 'cool', not smart, that's the whole point.

>>14276285

You sound like Michael Eric Dyson, I know you might think that's a compliment but it's not.

>>14276285
>There is nothing interesting about gang warfare, there is nothing interesting in dealing with drug addiction, loneliness, exploitation, etc

Then why are so many great books about warfare, addiction, loneliness, exploitation and poverty?

>>14276279
Never said that, see my response to the other dude.

>>14276285
>someone I don't like
>must be reddit

>There is nothing interesting about gang warfare, there is nothing interesting in dealing with drug addiction, loneliness, exploitation, etc. I say this as a person who grew up dirt poor, there is nothing meaningful to say about the topic.
What the fuck are you on about? Who dictates what areas of the human experience are worth analyzing or writing about? All of those things you listed could be explored in any number of interesting ways, and if you don't see that, all it shows is you have a very narrow and boring perspective on what legitimate topics for art are.

>You sound like some with a very small modicum of intellect who was deeply
misinformed -
You sound like you didn't get shoved in a locker enough in high school. I wish I could do it myself. My God, could you sound any more patronizing and up your own ass?

>>14278242
Shakespeare just made shit up 2bf. He helped define English because of it and his influence that went with it, but so did Wu Tang.

>>14278883

>Making up words

You don't say

ignoring the picture because i don't care about # of unique words especially
i think so. if poetry can be /lit/ and cinema can be /lit/ then why not. at it's best, rap could be those things even if you think it isn't yet.
for me, xxx by kendrick lamar made me consider music as a kind of literary art. in that vein, my favorite tracks are probably uneven compromise, xxx, 30, party all the time, solace, prelude to panopticon: on doing an evil deed blues, brenda's got a baby, u, and sing about me i'm dying of thirst
they all aren't epic on the same scale as a major work of literature, but i experience them as short soliloquys on a specific theme, punctuated by accompanying music. i can listen to them repeatedly, or just look at the words alone and appreciate their word choice or consider the content in the same way i might a normal written work.
those are the important features for me of a worthy piece of literature, and those songs qualify

this whole thread is hyper cringe
but aesop is based as fuck

I wish Nicki Minaj was like my childhood babysitter or something so that we could hug in a platonic sort of way but the opportunity for something more than that is still there.

>>14275571
yes and /fa/ too

>comparing auditory stimulation to reading stimulation

I'm gonna say no, but lyricists can be pretty talented poets in certain ways. Like Eminem is good at rhyming vowel sounds, which is uncommon to see done well in written verse.

Only a suburban white would think this shit is deep and profound. As is their main audience, check the comments in the video here:
>>14278779

Music isn't literature due to it relying on a pairing with sound. I'm sure some of it has something good to say but most is just glorifying hood culture. My only problem with rap is that a lot of it doesn't rhyme due to cheating with pronunciations. This thread is retarded.

Rap is degenerate, and also cuckoldry if you happen to be white.

>>14279711
*cultural cuckoldry

>>14275855
Kek

>>14276350
THIS SOOOO FUCKING MUCH

Dude No one is stopping you from liking rap. But don’t come on lit and make comparisons- that is fucking brainlet retarded

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Heller#Early_life_and_education
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Rubin#Early_life
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyor_Cohen#Early_life
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leila_Steinberg

>>14279756
you could come up with similar examples for any music or literary genre bud. try again.

The best rap is grotesque. The best literature is sublime and beautiful. When rap tries to be sublime and beautiful it’s cringey, like “why can’t we all get along”. When literature tries to be grotesque you get Bukowski. Keep your categories pure plebs. No one is reading at a strip club, no one goes to a library to pick up on people, and for good reason

>>14279779

>No one goes to a library to pick up people

What are you smoking? Libraries have some of the best male to female ratios of any public place. Also no entrance fee.

>>14279756
For all sad words of tongue and pen...

>>14279756
J-Just a coincidence..

>>14279775
>You can trace the exploitation of any musical genre back to wealthy Jews

Like which?

>>14279756
OP BTFO

>>14275708
>gaggle of negroes.
lol I'm using this phrase next time

I think the medium itself is viable, as is anything else given enough time to flourish, but in its present state hip-hop/rap is a magnet for the idiotic and the opportunistic looking to make a quick buck. Eminem helped jettison it into the white cultural mainstream and since then it's become the musical equivalent of pop-up Youtubers each reminding you to like and subscribe. The novel was initially eyed with suspicion and in time has grown into a respected craft. I think rap as a musical style can do so as well. The majority of its current practitioners, however, are garbage, and its most beloved icons have not yet produced a Tolstoy/Shakespeare/Melville/etc. Either way, it's a very young form of art, and none of us will be around by the time it's had time to mature.

>>14279801
I never implied that, try again

>>14279801
>Make music popular and widely heard, not to mention profitable
So bad. Evil

>>14278883
>He helped define English because of it and his influence that went with it, but so did Wu Tang.
why are niggers so delusional?

>>14279839

>>14279775
>jews get called out for dominating a media industry
>"Yeah big deal, you could do that for any media industry!"

indeed..

>>14279839
>Music

Yea you don’t get it and you never will
SAD!

>>14279848
you must be fun at parties

>>14276599
I can't even tell if this is bait. If you think doing drugs and eating another drug addict's anus is interesting then I guess so.

>>14279894
bedroom>parties

>>14279935
Is that an invitation ;)

>>14279940
I’m gonna need to see that ass first

>>14279894
So if white people are over represented in a certain industry, it's undiverse and bad, but if Jewish people are over represented in a certain industry, it's just normal and fine? What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zj-M9pvQSyo

anime weeb ghetto kawaii gangsta rap is literally the peak of music as an art form.

only incels don't like rap.

>>14280051
God would I love to slam the chick who listens to this kinda shit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms0mes_vLk8

anyone who doesn't think this is /lit/ doesn't understand poetry.

>>14276078
>A lot of rap esp. from the 90's deals with people sharing their experiences of being on the streets, being affected by gang violence, racism, drug epidemics, all that shit
Not it doesn't. Let me tell you as someone who actually comes from poverty and a real poor country. Rap is a commercialisation of American fetishism of blacks. It is entirely fabricated right from the beginning. 90s rap, though seemingly authentic, is just made up shit to sound cool and sell. So made up that it even gets to murder. It's a wilful promotion of dysfunctional habits and attitudes, that are also completely fake (until brought into being by this enterprise). It is the fakest shit ever. And the people that developed it are businessmen jews/whites and fairly well-off (not properly part of the african-american group, whiteified) blacks. Any chink and his grandmother has it tougher in the space of a week than does any nigger in a lifetime. But you don't hear about it? Because people who actually have tough lives do not self-victimise and make up some bullshit image of being poor and oppressed, they're out there surviving. Rap is pure cope for being a loser despite having all the opportunities in the world, that is to say actually having opportunities unlike the truly impoverished.

>was just listening to aesop's discography for the last few days at work
>come across this thread
funny coincidence
>>14279358
>due to cheating with pronunciations
a lot of rhymes in early modern english poetry don't work anymore due to 21st century pronunciations. do they not count anymore?

>>14275704
>Some artists require a broad knowledge of culture and deeper knowledge of rap to understand the references, placing it on the level of the poetry rap battles in the Genji. It was also one of the first genres to include metadata within the song itself as a postmodern critique on the way music is shared and discovered. I'd say it can be /lit/, but rarely. It is however most often an intellectual shitpost and inside joke calling upon the vernacular culture and a collage of literary and musical allusions to weave the tale of the illest MC and his alleged prowess. It's interdisciplinary performance art.

>>14278870
I know I triggered you by it's better to pull the band-aid off quickly. No one person is genuinely qualified to make any subjective claims about human experience, just like no one is genuinely qualified to say that Paris Hilton's book 'Confessions of an Heiress: A Tongue-in-Chic Peek Behind the Pose' isn't the greatest work of literature every recorded. No one is qualified to actually assert that the experiences of trench warfare truly are more horrifying than the trauma suffered by modern day celebrities being harassed by paparazzi. At the end of the day all assertions are just that, assertions predicated on axioms, even psychological case studies and modern medicine cannot withstand the onslaught of unrestrained scepticism.
Thus every community faces a problem, on the one hand face accusations of snobbery and gate-keeping, or on the other observe as your ideas and beliefs become summarily dismantled by every dilettante with a 'hot take', eventually a community built around an interest will be destroyed from within by iconoclasm. This problem is doubly true for online communities where a 16 year old with a wikipedia tab can build a smokescreen around their inexperience and immaturity. This is precisely why communities evolve things like 'trials of effort', by forcing participants to invest a significant chunk of time and energy into a field before debating it they at the very least must be serious with themselves. You can tell me all day long about how I am pretentious or haven't listened to 'the right stuff', but have you even read HALF of the western canon? Have you read Faulkner? Joyce? Pynchon? Gass? James? Nabokov? Tolstoy? Chekhov? Eliot? Salinger? Bukowski? Wharton? Dickinson? Chaucer? Thackeray?
No, because to do that, to invest the actual minimum amount of ENERGY in a topic before shitting up a community built into it is too sincere a behaviour for you. Go ahead accuse me of being a snob, you'll understand when you lose a community to faggots.

>>14280256
This is correct, everyone who thinks rap is artistic because it deals with complex themes misunderstands what makes a theme complex. A theme is complex not because it is dark or edgy, like poverty or drug use, but because the theme is layered with underlying questions and meaning beneath it. Take Lolita, superficially it's about a mans obsession with a child, but if you read it a lot you'll understand it deals with questions about autonomy, free will, possession, corruption etc. It explores the problem from many angles, the text is rich enough in meaning that upon reading the book you can reflect on it in a manner that leads to new information. Most rap about something like drug addiction is just a repetitive restatement of the same thing, drugs make you a slave, drugs are a method of control, the government wants you to take drugs etc. It's so repetitive and superficial that while a drug addict can RELATE to the piece, it doesn't have enough abstraction in it to re-evaluate the listeners preconceptions about the problem. It is always masturbatory self-reflection without any depth.

>>14276285
>there's nothing to say about poverty or suffering
>i know this because i was poor

Is mf DOOM accepted by lit? Some of his songs have solid word play and compelling storytelling.

>>14275571
>Nas has more vocabulary than Em
kek

>>14275571
Can rape be /lit/?

>>14275571
Fuck no.

a spaniard rapper made a song using one single vowel, it's pretty good

>>14280265
>yee nigga we jus have accents bruh

Hilarious

>>14275571
What the fuck has happened to this board

There's something so pathetic about intelligent white men pontificating about the rhythmic mumblings of jungle people. But it's also kind of funny.

>To be, or not to be, that is the question
>Ooga booga nigga gib some weed pow pow crackas put me behind barz uh shieet

>>14278823
Name TWO (2) banal talkings points I paraded out.

>>14276575
This. Plus /lit/ would like it simply because of all the biblical references.

>>14275571
i feel, although am not sure, that rap is similar to anime, in that both are kinda stuck in a cultural adolescence
>oh look, another anime about a high school teen involved in some isekai scenario
>oh look, another rap song that is basically upgraded yo mama jokes
>"i can kill any MC, you aint nothing but a wild weed"
>oh look, an ex-drug dealer rapper still rapping about "that life" even though he hasnt gang banged in forever
>"so 50 cent, will your next album be about drug dealing again? personally i would like to see you rap about how you navigate your way through the music industry, your dealing with record execs, etc"
>an actual (paraphrased) question in a 50 cent interview
>50 cent proceeds to release War Angel LP

sounds retarded, but i remember reading Dante's Inferno for class way back. at the time i was also listening to cunninlynguist. and i thought
>why doesnt someone make a concept album rapping about their descent through Dante's Inferno, set to the eerie beats of Kno

>>14280874
I've enjoyed your posts so far but think they're incomplete without some account of your theory of art.

>>14281727
>concept album rapping about their descent through Dante's Inferno
I could totally see GZA doing something like this - he seems to be pretty well read.

>>14280874
>You can tell me all day long about how I am pretentious or haven't listened to 'the right stuff', but have you even read HALF of the western canon? Have you read Faulkner? Joyce? Pynchon? Gass? James? Nabokov? Tolstoy? Chekhov? Eliot? Salinger? Bukowski? Wharton? Dickinson? Chaucer? Thackeray?
>No, because to do that, to invest the actual minimum amount of ENERGY in a topic before shitting up a community built into it is too sincere a behaviour for you. Go ahead accuse me of being a snob, you'll understand when you lose a community to faggots.

rap is its own thing, it doesn't need to be lit in order to be valid.
but there is certainly true greatness in some of it, at about the same level as there is greatness in any genre, or medium generally. most media is stupid trash for consumption by idiots, but people like us concern ourself with that 0.01% that is actually lit. so that's analogous to any medium or genre, and rap is no exception. but it already has its own protocols for judgement in itself, wanting it to be lit and judged by those standards is beside the point.
but certainly, it can be analyzed through the lense of poetry, but analysis isn't the same as putting it in the literary canon. or it shouldn't be. there are more cogent analyses of the material within its own little subculture that matter more than an academic poetry critique. like, how cool is it? how vicious? the flow, etc.

>all these boomer rock listening millennials who don't want to accept their taste is outdated

you are no better then those old people in the 60s denouncing rock

>>14279894
Partying is degenerate

>>14279956
Jewish people are white

>>14277918
5930 words
https://pudding.cool/projects/vocabulary/index.html

>>14279756
>thinking music managers and producers have anything to do with the actual music creation
>ignoring that 90%+ hip hop artists are african americans
paranoid schizophrenic much?

>>14279956
>everything other people say must somehow fit into my stereotypes of what different kinds of people must believe
I did not imply, and do not hold, the position you describe
>>14279935
>>14282163
I was being polite
>>14282176
to be fair and tbqhwysenpai, producers are very much involved in vetting and guiding the creative process, and I think that poster was referring to the insidious role played by people who profit from the industry

>>14282224
Most soundcloud rappers don't even have professional producers. You guys are way out of the loop

>>14282239
>soundcloud
>the recording industry
pick one, oh wise looper

90% of poetry is shit
90% of rap is shit

both part of 'writing'. better than what most of you post anyway. larping as a 18th century is not poetry.

>>14275708
>negroes.
Thats what your opinion doesnt mean anything

>>14276285
>interesting themes
Such as?

When people start comparing poetry, a pseudo-rhythmic attempt that can't keep up with a simple 4/4 beat and impress the audience by reciting ancient myths and talking about flowers, to rap, like capital R rap, I have to question whether they've actually heard rap on a serious level.

Like, could you read Kool G Rap's "Fast Life" and pick up on how Kool G playfully spits a mob influenced multisyllabic verse to emphasise his gangster fantasies? Does he understand the sheer amount of effort, skill, and intelligence it takes to consciously manipulate the rhythm not of a sentence or a phrase, but of the very way each and every syllable itself is pronounced and arranged in order to represent a complex and emotional idea? To do this while maintaining a coherent grammatical and original rhyming structure AND while delivering a series of stunning images that range from 'champagne wishes of caviar dreams' looking straight crimy in girogio armani's and slanging a coke without the cola? To then have Nas playfully write about having seven hundred wives King Solomon sized?

This isn't just a spread of internal rhymes, puns, and catchy slang; this is a man loading no more than eight lines with as much content as the English language allows.

Why did everyone, especially the German Idealists, hate Jean-Jacques Rousseau so much?

Was it mostly becaue of Rousseau's influence on what the left became that someone like Marx could stand out and recapture the left?

>>14279358
Poetry cares about sound you idiot, its litreally on the wiki page of 'poetry'

>>14276581
Prog rock, shoegaze, noise punk, Jazz(and all its variant), trip hop, power electronic,....

Get out now.

This is straight poetry

https://youtu.be/LmJoX2YZ3Ok

>>14282364

This is literature at its finest

https://youtu.be/V_CC4T3uRiQ

>listening to popular music for high literary merit
I love Joyce, Pynchon etc as much as the next dude but to expect popular hip hop artists to be able to write as well is just dumb. Id rather have dumbed down lyrics that appeal to the Freudian Id than if XXXtentation was quoting Proust word for word. Do you guys critique the literary value of every show and film you watch as well and hold them to the same standards as literary greats?

>>14282284
>images that range from 'champagne wishes of caviar dreams'

I sincerely hope for your sake this is bait. The pre-eminent 'image' you take away from this alleged masterpiece is the tagline from the TV tabloid show Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous. You might have to re-evaluate, bruh; you might actually think Robin Leech is the superior poet to John Milton. Oof.

>>14282397
Not too mention Joyce and Pynchon also loved their low-brow culture

What bands do you guys consider to be good lyricists?

>>14275571
>rap(e)
And no because no music can be literature. Music is music. Literature is literature. Nice things are nice.

>>14275581
lmao this. I listen to fast cars, none shall pass, and labor days like once a month minimum.

>>14282437
That's not exactly true since much Ancient Greek poetry and large parts of their plays were sung; as was most of the poetry of the late-middle ages that influenced Dante for example.

>>14276451
this but unironically.

>>14275571
Yes but rapist (black people) dont had the capacity.

>>14276078
>African American Vernacular English

>>14276285
Close the doors when you exit, this is /thread

>>14282397
>>14282404
im pretty sure i only speak for some (as it does seem that a sizeable portion of anons genuinely dislike "nigger culture").
im also about to vomit stuff i already said in another earlier reply.
but a lot of the apathetic and dislike of hip hop stems from the fact that most of it seems to just be the "same old, same old"
its the same reason many of are disappointed with Hollywood, not necessarily because it produces "low brow movies"
>Shaun of the Dead is hilariously good
but because its flooded with "just another comic book movie," "just another Star Wars movie" or "just another sequel."
same reason "pretentious" animetubers lament the current industry: "another isekai anime, and/or more light novel/manga adaptations"
>"b-but bruh, there is good 'non-mainstream' hip hop!"
im sure there are, but that doesnt change the fact that the current landscape is dominated by the same-ish songs/topics
and no one has the time to scour DatPiff for hidden gems because of Sturgeon's Law
>90% of anything is shit

>>14276660
I have a neighbor back home that is literally soijack and he has a wutang clan flat hanging above his front door. His wife is also one of the finest black women I've met.

>>14282304
Not all poetry is spoken. One can read it just fine. Do you read rap lyrics? Didn't think so.

>>14282370
Produced by Lord Mandalore

>>14282130
Rock music is also awful. The Beatles were the beginning of the end of good music.

>>14276285
>at the very least all of harold blooms western canon
opinion dismissed

>>14282613
Megadeth is good tho

>>14282130
We listen to strictly classical here

>/lit/ often called the "smart board"
>can't even put aside their petty racism and enjoy art for what it is

>>14282861
I don't hate blacks because of skin color. I hate blacks that act like dumb niggers.

niggas gettin litty uh
blicky got the sticky uh

>>14283188
Exactly

rap is ok but it's for niggers so i don't really listen to it

>>14275571
nigger slang ain't no words

>>14281727
There's definitely rap out there with literary references, for example, the album Orpheus by Hermit & the Recluse.

>>14283295
>Africans aren't so bright
have you never met any white people (or any non-african people)?

>>14282284
cringe

>>14282284
so rap is basically about retard gorilla niggers filling their spiritual void with bank notes, decadence, irresponsible sexual activity, and consumerism.

>this is ok, this is good art and better than poetry, especially the classics

kys unironically cringe faggot

I'm deep down in the back streets, in the heart of Medina
About to set off something more deep than a misdemeanor
Under the subway, waiting for the train to make noise
So I can blast a nigga and his boys, for what?
He pushed up on the block and made the dope sales drop
Like the crash in the Dow Jones stock
I had a connect to cross-sales, to catch more mill's
Than ho-bitches got birth control pills
I'm in the park setting up a deal over blunt fire
Bum nigga sleeping on the bench, they had him wired
Peeped my convo, the address of my condo
And how I changed a nigga name to John Doe
And while we set up camp, we got vamped
Put the stake through his heart, I ripped his fucking fangs apart
Snake got smoked on the set like Brandon Lee
Blown out the frame like Pan Am Flight 103
He got swung on, his lungs was torn
A kingpin just castled with his rook and lost a pawn
A regular on the block that played lookout
For playing predator with a Glock, he should have took out

Rap is crap

>>14275579
/thread

>>14283488
sprinkling in literary references are fun and can elevate the song, but even the song you specifically linked is still just another rap song talking about guns, bullets, racism, and other facets of the hood life that everyone has heard of before.

i would much rather listen to I against I by Jedi Mind Tricks
>Beast deceivin' us, ways devious
>Possessin' my peeps to walk streets
>With stolen heat, like Prometheus

>>14282130
>It's popular so it's good!
Millions of flies eating shit, etc.

>>14276568
Bitch I’m lugubrious

>lyrical music
i nearly threw up
there should be a different word for it like seter or something

>>14282175
Thanks.

>>14282130
Boomer rock and niggerbops is a false dichotomy, but who really cares about popular trends anyway?

>>14275571
Yes, particularly Lil Ugly Mane. He makes references to tons of /lit/ shit but I'll let his work speak for itself.

>Uneven Compromise First Verse
Enter my chamber you never will leave
Festering bodies will cover the streets
Satanic prophecies, Christian hypocrisy
Bury me deep in the filth and disease
Open my mind and then hammer it closed
Into the darkness I'm strangled and choked
Tracing the patterns and numbers in smoke
Blood on my dagger from enemies throats
Crucify ghosts in a frozen abyss
Ocean of planets in total eclipse
Nowhere I wander wherever I drift
Using a razor to open my wrists
My body is vacant, my soul is enslaved
To a hatred as ancient as day and night
Ladder of Jacob, the devil awakened
In hell I created, I pray tonight
>Second Verse
Same wolf from that folklore
Drinking blood right out of that that goat horn
I'm post-mortem, these boys want war
I transport 'em, right to Hell
In a trance when I write the spell
Leave the blood on my hands cause I like the the smell
In the death business, you the clientele
Motherfuckers can't win cause I'm trying to fail
Flesh is the fabric that covers my robes
Blood is the matter that built up my throne
Nothing but shadows, I'm waiting alone
Deep in my coffin, I call it my home
Cowering and broken
I'm a victim of my evil deeds
But I don't need your sympathy
I'm comfortable in misery


>Grave within a Grave(Oblivion Access)
From the inside of my corpse, 30 seconds is like a century
Imprisoned in necrotic flesh
Cognizant beyond my death
Paralyzed and frozen in this carnal penitentiary
Lucidly projecting hellish spectres
Ghoulish architecture, enveloped
In a darkness far beyond my mind can measure
Suffocating violent pressure
It just goes on forever, are these electro-
Magnetic hallucinations?
Is this everybody's afterlife or something I've created?
Abandoned and dismissed in a flaccid
Impotence with the cold illumination that I no longer exist
In a grave within a grave
It was the first time I prayed, no one
There to tell me that I shouldn't be afraid
Falling endlessly deeper, yet immobile and still
In this infinite aethyr washing over
My filth, neither angels or reapers or ghosts were fulfilled
Just a cavity to soak up my guilt
In my depravity, the flowers
Up above me wilting down so they can laugh at me
To think we spend our lives
Convinced we understand agony, a familiar
Voice: "He's finally at peace"
Shrieking through the silence to remind me I'm deceased
I tried to answer but the dead can't
Speak, the biggest prison in the world's underground six feet

He has a weird philosophy with his music where he prefers to stay a recluse and underground(think pynchon). Released a book/booklet as well but I'm struggling to find it. His most recent album is more personal and i'm assuming autobiographical more story telling than anything, and hes been to the ward a few times which is pretty /lit/ if you ask me.

>>14285856
Holy fuck the third verse/song referenced is fucking insane.

>>14275593
>knowyourmeme-9493n-dumbwojack.png
Huh, wojack-posters are faggots as well, who knew?

>>14276285
Very based post. However I will say that
>there is nothing interesting in dealing with drug addiction, loneliness, exploitation
is not necessarily true. it's just that it's true for rap because rap deals with these things in the most brainlet ways possible. Screeching and crying about how bad drugs and poverty are doesn't tell us anything new, it's just what we already know but said with more emotion. I heard one rap song where a guy spent the whole thing yelling about his mom "wasn't there" because of pills and then he started crying at the end. Like yeah we get it, drugs are bad for families, saying it while crying doesn't make it deep

>>14279894
>cringe reddit phrase
you have to go back faggot

>>14279790
The saddest are these:
Sneed's was Chuck's again.

>>14279779
>When literature tries to be grotesque you get Bukowski
mfw this is the best you could do

>No one here bringing up Milo
He can get up his own ass, but he's a strong gateway drug for /lit/ if you start chasing down his references.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJbd4t1yKPg

>>14279789
Yeah in college ALL the rich hot girls were in the library, all the munters were in the dimly lit club

>>14282284
this is so cringe it could be a new pasta

>>14285856
>>14286087
brainlets really need to get off my board. using le big words and making surface level *wink wink nudge nudge* literary references doesn't make something deep. these words have to actually mean something besides "my life sucks and the ghetto sucks nigga" rap is basically the rick and morty of music which in turn makes it the reddit of music. tons of effort expended to seem intellectual and high brow while actually as surface level as possible which attracts middling iq faggots who care about looking smart but don't actually have the brain power for genuine literature. I'm sorry, this is not the board for you

>>14284217
Popularity means a lot of people like it. Your boomer opinions don't speak for everyone

>>14287519
This is a very valid argument. Rap being popular means it's on the same level as Marvel movies and Katy Perry, which I would say accurately represents its level of depth

>>14282130
>rock listening
first day here? this is a classical board

>>14287548
Its almost as if taste is subjective

>>14287564
Please read
>>14280874
and then go back to where you came from

>>14287599
Seethe more

>Noo! You can't just heckin enjoy popular contemporary music! W-what about classical!?

>>14280874
>Paris Hilton book
Way to out yourself as a literal Boomer who still thinks in terms of early 2000s pop culture

>>14287564
>its almost as if
The international calling card of people from a certain website.

>>14287865
not an argument

>>14287964
You were already BTFO by >>14280874
Because dumb shit eating retards can claim anything is good, you should at least put the effort in to read the basics first.

>>14287973
Not going to read your wall of text nor are you going to trick me into thinking I don't actually enjoy the music I listen to

>>14287985
0/10 troll, you could have wrote anything else to keep it going. What a faggot

>>14288039
>seething this much over the fact that people enjoy listening to different music

>>14287985
>not going to read

There’s your problem

>>14282446
and that's even from his shittier era where he tried to fit in and pretend he's a gangster instead of embracing his own style

>>14282643
not simply good they're the best

>my 4/4 beats are better than your 4/4 beats!
I'm a huge elitist when it comes to literature or film but rock music can be enjoyed regardless of how witty the lyrics are. And yes hip-hop is still under the rock tradition

>>14287985
we know you enjoy it, it's music made by brainlets for brainlets

>>14287431
>calls people brainlets
>can’t find the shift key when starting sentences

wew lads

>>14275571
not going to answer your question, but I will add to the conversation that only brainlets will refuse to acknowledge what niggers have done artistically

>>14275571
rap is great music and on occasion /lit/

>>14289610
>rare occasion

>hip hop isn't /li-
blocks your path

>>14288664
you're ignorant

>>14285856
Who r u

>>14289766
Obscure choice. Doseone is pretty lit especially his spoken word stuff.

All rap is /lit/ desu

I mean themes can carry on throughout the ages
villon, bauldelaire, bukowski, danny brown
all the same really

>>14288664
How is hip-hop part of the rock tradition?

>>14276067
I thought he was too because his name is Bavitz but in Holy Smokes he refers to a catholic upbringing. Maybe that's not about him though idk.

>>14287431
>>using le big words and making surface level *wink wink nudge nudge* literary references doesn't make something deep
No, it doesn't, but a well-used vocabulary is /lit/, fuck outta here with that le crap.

Given that songs are something like 3 minutes each, it can be forgiven that literary reference exploration depth is limited. If you want essayists who will dive deep, go buy a book of essays or audiobooks or something, music generally isn't for that.

>>my life sucks and the ghetto sucks
If this is someone's lived life experience and you're listening to them sing about it, it can mean exactly what it says on the tin, and there's nothing wrong with that. People shit on writers who ignore
>write what you know
So desu it's actually more /lit/ for them to tell their story then to sing about something else.

>>rap is basically the rick and morty of music
Widely popular, occasionally bitingly witty surrounded by lots of low points, and hated on 4chan by edgelord tweens who need an identity because hating things as a group is easier than going it alone to forge your own identity founded on affirmative goals?

Yeah, I'd agree, actually.

>>They work hard on songs to seem intellectual and high brow
At what point do you draw the line? I argue they're not pretending, or, even if they were, you take after what you aspire to, and even if you think they're pseuds, a good rapper with a strong vocab and who reaches for literature as a source of lyrical inspiration becomes a gateway drug and inspiration for /lit/ for a lot of people. This process of opening the door for /lit/ I argue makes them become /lit/ too, much like a mother who can't read, but who strongly encourages their children to read, and sits with them while they do.

>>brainlets really need to get off my board
Agreed.

>>14289814
Verse–chorus form, 4/4 beats, subject matter, similar melodies. Its basically all the same but with a different singing style. I don't just mean rock as in electric guitar music either but the broader tradition

>>14290306
i'm glad i have a high enough iq to really understand the deep subtleties and masterful nuance of this very smart post

>>14290306
>No, it doesn't, but a well-used vocabulary is /lit/, fuck outta here with that le crap.
A "well used vocabulary" with nothing behind it just makes you look like a try-hard with a thesaurus
>Given that songs are something like 3 minutes each, it can be forgiven that literary reference exploration depth is limited
I'm not attacking them for not having deep literary references. I'm saying the references they do have are completely pointless and can't be used to justify depth, and it sounds like you agree they lack depth. Therefore this shouldn't be used to defend them
>If this is someone's lived life experience and you're listening to them sing about it, it can mean exactly what it says on the tin, and there's nothing wrong with that
I agree there's nothing wrong with it. I don't think there's anything wrong with pop music. Not deep or /lit/ tho
>So desu it's actually more /lit/ for them to tell their story then to sing about something else.
I'm not telling them to sing about something else. I'm telling them to look into their experiences with actual depth and tell us something we don't know or give us a different perspective. I know drugs are bad, I know poverty is bad. Just yelling it at me with thesaurus words is boring
>Widely popular, occasionally bitingly witty surrounded by lots of low points, and hated on 4chan by edgelord tweens who need an identity because hating things as a group is easier than going it alone to forge your own identity founded on affirmative goals?
Or maybe we hate it because it's usually bad and always overrated by wannabe intellectuals. Classic reddit "if you don't think marvel movies are art then you're just an edgy contrarian teen who hates fun" argument
>a good rapper with a strong vocab and who reaches for literature as a source of lyrical inspiration becomes a gateway drug and inspiration for /lit/ for a lot of people
top kek. First of all using a thesaurus to find words that rhyme=/=strong vocab. But just lmao that you think any of these suburban teens or ghetto dwellers are gonna pick up fucking Moby Dick because some rapper mentioned it in a stream of unintelligible garbage. This is like the "Harry Potter is amazing because it got more people to read" argument. No, all it does is keep people stuck obsessing over juvenile crap and dilute the genuine literary community as a whole with people who never grew past it. If these people genuinely want to join a more in-depth community then the first step is to admit that the brainlet thing that might've got them there isn't actually that good. Time for you to take that step

>>14276599
Lil Peep isn't rap. He sings

>>14275571
No, but it can make references which is more than nothing.

Overmen, overwomen, word to Nietzsche
Hurdle human nature so quick you couldn't see us
Used to be camels and lions, now we kids yo
Emphatically fucked off all dragons, sorta mythical
More rebellious than Camus, broader than Shamoo
Contain multitudes like Whitman, flow like Danube
Will to power game too beastly
Like Friedrich freaking a chica in a tricked-out Sebring
The hyperrealest, call us Baudrillard
Hahahaha, JK, irresponsible, so DR (Das Racist!)
Brought back more notes from the underground than Fyodor
Got shot in the chest but kept speaking like we were Theodore
Roosevelt, verily with Vonnegut's endurance
Plus no regrets like we were prepared for eternal recurrence
American misfits, Flannery O'Connor, thought you knew us!
Declaring more gods deceased than Zarathustra
But still soarin' (Soren), we're Kid Cudi Kierkegaards
More cryptic than Derrida, peep the differance
And hairier than Karl Marx, check the stubble, dude
Pale kings infinitely jesting, DFW
Young Shel Silversteins indulge superfluous play
Plus we'd walk away from Omelas faster than Ursula K
Innocence plus experience, Will Blake as the sidekick
Metamorphosizing but Kafka couldn't write this
World not too much with us, make Wordsworth proud
Forever memorable protagonists like Goethe's Faust
Carl G. Jung couldn't classify our archetypes
Oscar Wilde wit, we're feeling kinda snarky, right
Controversial as Leary, making fools hecka livid
Operation: escape the doll house, someone dial Henrik Ibsen
Weirder than Edgar Allen, write in deranged voices
Better portraits of the young artists than James Joyce's
Live more deliberately than Uncle Thoreau
In touch with sexualities unknown to Foucalt
Like Asimov conjur space worlds with flying saucers
In Dream visions more fantastic than those penned by Chaucer
Forest-beauty-nature-gasms akin to John Muir
And we shout messages more urgent than those of Paul Revere
The psychos analyze more enigmas than Freud
With a passion for social justice, W.E.B. DuBois
Style of rap colder than a Jack London winter
Not homophobic, would probably smooch Allen Ginsberg

https://lostboyevsky.bandcamp.com/track/herd-to-bermensch-2

>>14290430
>>with nothing behind it
Try to mine a brainlet for good references and you're not getting Hegel and Baudelaire, you're getting Harry and Baratheons. There's a certain level of real that needs to be reached to fake it, and when even the fake's more real than most people's real, we call that shit /lit/.

>the references they do have are completely pointless
I disagree, and since this is core to your point in both posts, I'll take a minute to shit on it. One quick example that I think shows reference deepens the quality of the work, and this happens all over the entire album: when the man's placing Conrad juxtaposed against Sufism on "Embroidering Machine", this is part of a through-line of discussion throughout the album in which religious study and asceticism is presented as a potential alternative to nihilistic poverty, and he wants to connect these feelings of helplessness embodied by the embroidering machine to credentialism, examining the next few lines which are repeated for emphasis (you need a merit badge, you need a merit badge, you need a merit badge...).

As the reference in question is oddly specific, pulled from both Conrad's personal letters and Islamic religious history, if you're looking to make a judgment about the nature of what he was going for, the reference grows substantially richer by digging into either topic area using the reference as a toehold, for which there are great books which are /lit/ as fuck you can easily google to go deeper.

Or, if you're lazy, you don't need to do any of this shit, and you can take it as a guy making a fun rhyme about some guy named Nizamuddin hunched at an embroidering machine, without knowing about Conrad's knitting machine or Nizamuddin, because it works as music too. Much like a great deal of good poetry, it tolerates both light and deep readings and is better for supporting both.

Side shit:
>I know drugs are bad, I know poverty is bad
You've also probably heard sex is good. Turns out words alone often don't express the feelings right, so people try song instead. I'm sorry you missed the whole point of music.

>we hate it because
Nice "we", thanks for proving my point.

>rap dilutes the genuine literary community
Remove head from sphincter

>>14290769
>Try to mine a brainlet for good references and you're not getting Hegel and Baudelaire
top kek. you literally see redditors talking about how rick and morty deals with high-tier philosophers on a regular basis. Any brainlet can skim Hegel's wiki and slap in a few references.
>I disagree, and since this is core to...ensuing cringe
There's a reason I compared rap to rick and morty, this reads like a "to be fair you have to have a very high IQ to understand rick and morty" pasta. You all talk in the same reddit-tier pseud way. I don't really know what you expected to show with this. Any idiot can write some essay about how deep something is that's just projection from whatever they read the wiki on most recently. There are literally entire communities devoted to doing this with marvel movies. Sure it could be "deep", but more likely you've just taken an off handed line by a pseud and tried to make it into something it isn't. I don't want to listen to that crap so I can't say for sure, but considering all the other rap I've listened to that was praised in the same way was similarly shallow and all these "analyses" totally baseless, I think it's a good guess. If you post this on /r/hiphopheads (pic related) I'm sure they'd appreciate it though
> Turns out words alone often don't express the feelings right, so people try song instead. I'm sorry you missed the whole point of music
this isn't about music you faggot it's about literature. This shit is fine in music but there's nothing lit about it
>Nice "we", thanks for proving my point.
I was using "we" as in 4chan since you referred to users of the site, of which I am one, as hating rick and morty, retard

>>14290769
>You've also probably heard sex is good. Turns out words alone often don't express the feelings right, so people try song instead. I'm sorry you missed the whole point of music.
By this logic every basic pop song is lit because almost all of them are describing feelings. The guys point is that just doing that is incredibly surface level

>>14291087
>>There's a reason I...blahblah Tone argument
Nice tone argument. Bonus points for
>I didn't listen to any of the work but disagree
You'd make a great game critic

>Sure it could be "deep", but more likely you've just taken an off handed line by a pseud and tried to make it into something it isn't
Death of the author. You don't have to dig deeper or believe authors actually put something deeper into your music if you're lazy, think they're lazy, or just don't want to expand your taste and learn. This is the literary equivalent of ordering off the kid's menu, but more power to you, anon.

I bet you were the kid who complained, when their teacher asked you to write an essay about themes, that the teacher was "just making stuff up"

>>This shit is fine in music but there's nothing lit about it
>He knows nothing about the fundamental historical interconnectedness of song and literature as co-developing drivers of one and the other, particularly in the time of oral history or in the self-definition of /lit/ movements
oh the times they are a-changin'

>>I was using "we" as in 4chan
>I was pretending to be retarded!
cope

>>14291136
The whole is more than the sum of it's parts, as always, and you can do anything shitty. I'm mostly calling them out as someone whom I think does it well.

Anyone who denies this as /lit/ is confirmed pseud.

>>14290603
This is absolute cringe

>>14291307
cringe

>>14282130
Go and shove your electric guitars up your gansta asshole.

>>14276078
You make the mistake that someone has something deep or meaningful to say because they suffer. Hip hop generally proves that suffering can lead to extremely shallow discourses.

>>14276150
>Honestly I would think on a literature board people would try to actually have discussions instead of just getting bitter when they see opinions they don't like, but I guess this is still 4chan.
Certain opinions are so banal and institutionally encouraged that they deserve nothing more than knee-jerk bitterness.

>>14285586
*morose and lugubrious

>>14275571
Shakespeare isn't fair, he had considerably fewer words to work with.

Gatekeeper of /lit/™ here. Yes it's pretty /lit/™

>>14275571
Aesop is pretty shit but at least he wins this imaginary competition

>>14292977
This

>>14278847
You're not being cool if you're screaming though. Mf Doom is cooler than dmx

>>14293004
>not remembering all caps when you spell the man name

rap's purpose isn't to be /lit/, it's to be /mu/, but sometimes it is truly /lit/, here's an example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9rs9PSG9qE

Subterranean maintain own tongue mongst ruins
In subdued tones I speak of the flesh which entombs our inner core
Who the blessed? Invade airwaves type Moors (wars)
Sore from travels to unmarked thresholds, grapple truths untold lying in whispers it figures
He who snickers doesn't see final melody
Shattered splinters, melodic in their own unrest
Remind me of Osiris, made liars of us all
For 364 days I learned to crawl
Appalled by sense of urgency to resurrect the dead
Shed my last skin searching for angel with broken wing
Will she sing that e minor hymn? For those of us who sin?
For those of us who sin?
Within dirty sanctum became brethren's anthem
Jesus Christ a Black man walks the earth still
Forgot to speak the real, Struggle's fate not sealed
I appeal to nil, never one, not one, none

Amplify brainwaves to condense my thought
Bends the dark
Why question my art?

Shunned by rays of Amon Ra
Darkness exposes every soul's flaw
I forever remain raw, unpolished
Drunk off knowledge of knowing I'm dumb
Now remain none's sum, while inner eyes' stay numb
We all shall succumb to eternal sleep
For now I'll just yawn and speak on ill gutter beats
Watch falling leaves, walk on knees
Down graveled path vocalize own epitaph
Evoke on path towards inner, nonlinear
Lay head mongst sinners
Solitude falls winter
Appalled at visual surrounding
Kept my bearings non-grounded
Liquid language kept frozen 40 oz's
How many Mc's know who Faust is?
Pardon original, Manuscript fit text type tailored suit
Felt effects at root through vein type heron' you shoot
Euphoric, saw banks of Tigris and Euphrates
Fertile Crescent hold more lessons than taught by deities
Consciousness is leaving me
Seen that same sage turn page on habitual
Perform tectonic rituals
Broke abacus to calculate coordinates
But can't afford rent.... It makes no sense
Forgot our days in shackles? You concentrate on battles?
I lecture graduates discussing Kant till they leave baffled

Amplify brainwaves to condense my thought
Bends the dark
Why question my art?

>>14293881
cringe

>>14291190
I suppose, ultimately, there's no purpose in fighting over whether a random line has depth or not because it can't be proven one way or another. We could be having this same argument over whether the conflict between Iron Man and Captain America relates to Plato and Aristotle, you could write something that kind of fits, and I would not be able to objectively prove that it doesn't. So I'll let the final arbiter here be time, because the only real way to prove depth is to last through many periods of time and continuously be relevant and have something worth analyzing . If 50 years from now rap is still being analyzed and taken seriously then that will prove it has some merit beyond yet another phase of pop culture that people took way too seriously. I really, really doubt it but we'll see

>>14295239
>using time as an arbiter for academic study
Groupthink and culture are more important here than time; ask the sci-fi community about their treatment by academia and you'll hear some great horror stories.

Rap, like sci-fi, tends to align itself with anti-establishment, countercultural, and de-institutionalized creators and forces. You're therefore unlikely to see serious academic study of rap in your lifetime.

>>14285856
Lil Ugly Mane don't write lyrics tho, he write books full of potions. Probably the best artist of the 2010s

>she on my dick like flies in a box of fruit
brilliance

3rd side of the tape is something else

>>14295344
That is not a favorable comparison for you because I have actually read a lot of sci fi (and sometimes still do) and can assure you that the vast majority is not deserving of any degree of literary analysis. That said, the few gems, have frequently formed decent analytic communities (I didn't say they had to be in academia). Book of the New Sun for example has had a vibrant analytic community going for 40 years without much assistance from academia because it actually has merit. Other sci-fi's don't because there's nothing there. My prediction is rap will have neither academic support nor any real groundswell community once this phase has passed but I'm willing to wait and see
>Rap, like sci-fi, tends to align itself with anti-establishment, countercultural
Also this is just an excuse for both sci-fi and rap. Academia loves things with similar themes to rap (i.e. critiques of "power structures") I'm not even saying you have to be entrenched in academia to have merit but don't give me this crap

>>14295616
>the vast majority is not deserving of any degree of literary analysis
The parts that are though, by comparison to other authors and thematic clusters in the space (particularly the bard, for example) get disproportionately ignored, primarily because it doesn't suit the cultural sensibilities of the genre's primary readership. The lows of a genre aren't the important part to focus on - its how the highs are treated. And in this space we can see clear differences

>Academia loves things with similar themes to rap...
...But NOT rap itself, because, again, it appears groupthink and culture are more important here than absolute quality.

>>14295676
>The parts that are though
What parts? I've read pretty much all of the notable sci-fi books and BOTNS is the only that would qualify as lit, and even though it's one of my favorite books I honestly don't blame academia for ignoring it because 99% of sci-fi is trash and even with a good addition of BOTNS academia would suffer a net decline for not immediately dismissing sci-fi as a whole, because things like Foundation and Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy would inevitably seep in. I don't know why you're so focused on academia anyway though, I never even brought it up. You don't need academia for an analytic community.

>...But NOT rap itself, because, again, it appears groupthink and culture are more important here than absolute quality
You're going off the presumption here that rap is quality, which is more than arguable. Academia probably doesn't like rap because like sci-fi, 99% of it is trash. If you truly think there is some rap that is genuinely good then your focus should be on emphasizing what separates it from other rap rather than demanding that rap as a whole gain respect, which will just be laughed off and is generally the tactic sci-fi fans take

>>14292977
>>14292997
Aesop is a good test, plebs who don't know they're plebs hate him.

>>14276285
>There is nothing interesting about gang warfare, there is nothing interesting in dealing with drug addiction, loneliness, exploitation, etc
PHEWWWWW
Nothing interesting or complex about loneliness, exploitation, or poverty, or suffering?
Now this is some amazing shit and the amount of people actually just agreeing with a notion so unbelivably fuckign stupid (though at least there are still some who called out your stupidity) really makes me wonder about this board. I guess it's because you said RAP=SHIT, seeing an opinion they agree with comforts them and makes their brain turn off.
No your post is not /thread, it's anything but.

>>14276628
based

>>14276285
>Run DMC, Wu Tang Clan, Death Grips, etc etc
kek

>I don't think rap is inferior because it doesn't deal with complex themes, I KNOW it is inferior because it doesn't actually deal with complex or interesting themes.
hahahaha

>There is nothing interesting about gang warfare, there is nothing interesting in dealing with drug addiction, loneliness, exploitation, etc.
Hahahahahahahaha

>no one who is actually well read (at the very least all of harold blooms western canon)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

then I read your post again and noticed
>It's a very common symptom on a certain website I don't want to name, where people parade out extremely banal talking points and act as if they are profound revelations when they are only profound revelations to THEMSELVES
and now I'm convinced this is just really masterful baiting. Good job anon

>>14275571
Yes.

>>14290408
i knew scaruffi browsed this site

>>14297137
>the only theoretically interesting book on rap

What the fuck does this mean? Do they mean the only interesting theoretical book on rap?

>>14297173
English grammar is garbage

>>14297101
>t-thats not r-real rap, r-real rap is fat white boys on soundcloud sampling lo fi jazz beats and referencing greek mythology
As a general rule any subculture that must ceaselessly point to increasingly obscure artists to endlessly justify its own merit is trash. Moby Dick is one of the most famous novels, and one of the best. If the 'good' rap isnt very well known outside of navel gazing circles of onanists it says a lot about rap as a whole.

>>14275571
god i fucking hate this graph. no shit moby dick has less variety of words overall: it has the same fucking general themes throughout, so a lot of words are repeated, whereas each song is about a completely different thing and usually just strings random fucking words together

>>14276285
OH MY GOD THIS IS BASED AS FUCK

>>14297173
It means that this is the only book that's interesting from a theoretical point of view on rap.

If it were phrased this way: "The only interesting theoretic book on rap.", they would refer to it as a theoretical book that happens to be interesting instead of the other way around.

>>14276350
Xzibit Paparazzi too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxlhM7g2HOI

>>14275579
Isn't it just another form of peotry? Thats very closed minded of you.

>>14281788
GZA still has to release his astrophysics album

>>14280464
Wow nice argument you really proved that guy wrong.

>this fucking thread is sitll up

>>14299186
If I shit into my hand and smear it on the wall, isn't that just another form of painting?

>>14275806
off the charts

>>14276350
maybe you should listen to more rap music

Hip hop lyrics are dumb but I bet all you guys criticizing it listen to shit like "And by the way, have you got a dollar?
Oh, no, man, I haven't got the time-time
Too busy sucking on a ding-dong
She's busy sucking on my ding-dong" and see nothing hypocritical. Music is much more than just the lyrics

>>14295344
Imagine, in the year of our Lord 2019, believing that either sci fi are counter culture by any stretch of the term.

>>14295676
Have you read at least 50 acclaimed novels? Because if you haven’t read what is already regarded as top tier, you’re not really qualified to criticise it as being excessively elitist. Have you at least confirmed to yourself that Rap has as much merit as Melville, Joyce, Pynchon? Or are you basing this off five books you read in high school?

>>14275571
why won't this fucking thread die

>>14276078
Unironically this, except I don't think the dismissal of rap comes exclusively from racism. Some people are just too dumb or lazy to look past the surface level. Every genre has its own tropes and they're all generally silly and stupid. You could easily reduce country music to trucks, jeans, and beer just like you could reduce rap to sex, drugs, and money. While it may be true that any time you listen to country radio, you'll almost always get a lifeless, boring retreading of these themes, you are still ignoring a plethora of good country music when you reduce it in this way. Rap is the same. More importantly, when you try to distance yourself from the stereotypes of rap as the majority of the critics here would prefer, to make it "intelligent" and "conscious", you usually end up with shit like Joyner Lucas, who fucking sucks. A lot of better rap doesn't avoid its tropes, but embraces them while trying to twist them into something new. When Playboi Carti says "That ho give me face, that ho give me faith", he is transforming the carnal banalities of rap into something spiritual. There are better examples of this out there, but it's still an example nonetheless.

Also I would like to add that Kanye is profoundly Hegelian and one of the greatest artists of our time.

>>14276285
Destroyed.

>>14295847
I think what he means is these things aren't inherently interesting. As in, you can't just mention them superficially and think "well that's my job done." You have to work to make them interesting. Most rap lyricism barely rises beyond the level of awkwardly phrased didacticism.

>>14299234
Rap music threads always hit 300, they serve as a perfect ground for a sperg-out between the /pol/tard boomers and the degenerate nigger loving zoomers.

>>14299241

>>14278870
Based

>>14275571
What a retarded false equivalency. Compare that to non rap music.

>>14276663
>>14276645
I'm 27 and lil peep is maybe the only good thing to come from Zoomers so far

Listen to this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7K_lbglfI4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0aZpphRDbk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoG69or77bI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQBRM1GK3T4

>>14301819

>>14301851
Lil Peep was a Millennial

>>14301851
He does seem kind of based

>>14275571
more /lit/ than modern "poetry"

>>14276599
too soon
:C

X was inspired by a bunch of poets like Rimbaud and Ezra Pound. His stuff when he wasn't trying to be an edgelord was pretty good. His young death make him seem like a romantic like Novalis or Keats
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x6hv2Drel4
RIP Jah, see you in heaven

>>14302269
lol. he was a homicidal sociopath. As far as zoomer music goes though I think he was talented

>>14302290
So was Rimbaud desu