/lit/ - Literature

All of them are best in their own ways.

>>14184854
No? John is fake.

Not even close to this bad boy

>inb4 seething orthodoxytards screeching mUh cHuRcH cAnOn

>>14184860
How so?

>>14184869
Very fake, written about 100 AD. You cant prove that Jesus is god without quoting from John.

>>14184869
It was written 100 years after his death. It's so different from the other gospels it's quite interesting. Interestingly, without John, there is no proof of Jesus being God. John is about as authentic as those gnostic gospels like this one >>14184860

>>14184854
because you're really a gnostic

>>14184910
meant to tag this one >>14184861

>>14184869
John didn't even write it and it contradicts the synoptics multiple times

>>14184910
Bro, John is LESS authentic than Thomas.
Thomas isnt even a Gnostic Gospel by the way, retard scholars just call it that.
Thomas never refers to Jesus as God either...

>>14184940
there's some serious satanic themes in gospel of thomas bro

>>14184911
What is gnostic about the gospel of John?

>>14184955
Lol yes, I love reading those verses that say "worship satan"

Youre just seething because Jesus's real knowledge was hidden from retards whom didnt deserve to know it

>>14184903
>You cant prove that Jesus is god without quoting from John.
???

>>14184903
>>14184910
>>14184926
>not understanding scripture

>>14184911
So was Jesus, Orthodoxy tards seething that they have been enslaved by Yaldabaoth and his archons and tricked into thinking the world is "Good", even though it was designed so that life has to consume other life to survive

>>14184977
>>14184989
You literally cant. quote a verse, right now, from Matthew/Mark/Luke that proves that jesus is God in the flesh

>>14184963
in thomas he ltierally goes around zapping children and adults and killing them it's crazy

>>14185005
>still not understanding scripture

>>14185005
>Moving the goalposts this hard
Did you realize your mistake between your first post and now?

>>14184959
It is very Gnostic. You have verses where Jesus tells the Jews that their "Father" is not the same as his father. Jesus isnt a slave of Yaldabaoth.

>inb4 its just saying the Jews worship satan

There are also verses that talk about the law bringing death, but Jesus bringing life. everyone before Jesus has died, but Jesus will live forever. The laws from the Old God, Yaldabaoth are material and worldly, they bring death.

>>14185023
No, you are thinking of the Infancy Gospel of Thomas. I am referring to the Actual Gospel of thomas, the one where there are 114 sayings of Jesus, his hidden teachings

>>14185029
lol

>>14185047
What about the fact that its most famous verse is very anti-gnostic? God loving the world so much he sent his son?

>>14185005
>from Matthew/Mark/Luke that proves that jesus is God
Matthew 4:10, 9:2-7, 18:20, 28:18

>>14185057
the Logos /= Yaldabaoth.
even St Paul notices. in one of his letters he even says that the God of this world (Yaldabaoth) has intentionally turned peoples hearts away from Jesus so they wouldnt be saved

>>14185078
2 Corinthians 4:4

>>14185078
Interesting. Can I get a source on that?

I'm going to read the Bible for the pseud cred after I finish my current book. How excruciatingly boring is it? Are some parts at least interesting?

>>14185091
2 Corinthians 4:4 >>14185086

>>14185095
Better yet, convert.

>>14185005
That’s literally the first passage of the first gospel written (Mark)
>1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
>2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
>3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
Every body knows the voice of one crying in the wilderness is Isaiah, but that first quote comes from the book of Malachi, verses 2:17-3:1. The people cry out, asking where God is. The response is a messenger will be sent, followed by God himself. John the Baptist is the messenger, Jesus is God
>Ye have wearied the Lord with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the Lord, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?
>Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.
If Mark is the first gospel written, as scholars claim, then the very first gospel starts off by saying Jesus is God
>>14185023
You’re confusing the gospel of Thomas with the infancy gospel of Thomas. The infancy gospel has those stories you’re saying. The gospel of Thomas they’re posting has no narrative, it’s a bunch of quotes from Jesus. Many are in the gospel, some are not

>>14185095
If you’re reading it with no intention of converting, here are the parts you won’t enjoy
>Leviticus
>Numbers
>Deuteronomy
>1 Chronicles
>2 Chronicles
Other than that, it’s fine. People exaggerate how hard it is too read.

>>14185078
“The God of this world” is Satan, but he is not the creator of this world. The New Testament is quite clear that the demiurge, the creator of this realm, is the same God the Father who sent Jesus. It’s a later gnostic invention to say otherwise

>>14185095
The New Testament has a gainax ending that's absolutely fucking insane.

>>14185118
>claiming that jesus is a son of God is proof that he literally is God
I love when non-Gnostics say this and then turn around and say "bro we're all children of Go"

GIVE ME DEFINITIVE SCRIPTURE
THAT GOD BEGAT JESUS

>>14185146
>Satan is the God of the world
no way is this Orthodox christianity
Why do you think the Gnostics loved Paul so much and thought he had been given hidden knowledge from Jesus?

>>14185150
What? Did you mean to respond to someone else? The verses I quoted state, quite clearly, that Jesus Christ is the God of Judgement. I hope you just meant to respond to someone else, cause if that’s really your response to me you have no reading comprehension skills whatsoever and should never be trusted to read religious scripture

>>14185146
Also, the word satan isnt actually used in the original scripture, thats just the exegesis of it, so it was added in in some translations.
it just says, "God" of the world

>>14185162
Orthodox Christianity agrees with this. They don’t believe Satan is truly God or a god in the sense that he possesses power, but in the sense that he is worshipped by the world.

>>14185168
They really don't though

>>14185147
>tfw revelation

>>14185168
Jews dont actually interpret this as the literal coming of God by the way, they just refer to their Messiah as the "Lord"

>>14185186
You have no reading comprehension.

>>14185180
Nah man, Paul was pretty clear about the God of the physical world being different from the God of Jesus

>>14185190
was meant to respond to >>14185118

>>14185190
>Jews dont actually interpret this as the literal coming of God by the way,
Jews also say that God can’t incarnate on Earth in the flesh, disregarding all the times in Genesis he appears as a man as mere allegories. Christians say those are Jesus appearing in the Old Testament, Jews and Christians interpret the Bible differently, who knew?
>they just refer to their Messiah as the "Lord"
And again, your reading comprehension takes a hit. It doesn’t say “Lord,” it says “God of Judgement”

>>14185191
You realize that Jesus being the son of God doesn't mean anything, right? Non-Gnostics literally made up the incomprehensible and bullshit trinity thing. Your scripture literally means jack shit to what you have to say.

>>14185195
>Nah man, Paul was pretty clear about the God of the physical world being different from the God of Jesus
If that were the case that he were clear, then why do all Catholic, Orthodox, and most Protestant scholars all agree he’s not saying that? Why do secular scholars, who have no reason to uphold traditional Christian readings, all agree Gnosticism is a later invention? You can’t just act like your pseudo-gnostic readings are the most obvious interpretation and just ignore everything else
>>14185203
Doesn’t change my response here >>14185207

>>14185215
Again, your reading comprehension is garbage. I’m not claiming Jesus is the Son of God (though I do believe that). I posted verses that prove Jesus is the “God of Judgement.”
Not just the “Son of God,” but also the “God of Judgement”
I’ll repeat myself, as your reading comprehension might be aided by repetitions
Not just the “Son of God,” but also the “God of Judgement”
Not just the “Son of God,” but also the “God of Judgement”
Not just the “Son of God,” but also the “God of Judgement”
Jesus Christ, in the opening passages of Mark, is identified with the God of Judgement in Malachi
That’s what my original post says
Jesus Christ is the God of Judgement
Malachi 2:17-3:1
Mark 1:2
Jesus Christ is the God of Judgement

>>14185242
Yes? God is the God of Judgement. Fucking obviously. Why do you insist that that proves he's the old testament evil god? WTF is your theology?

>>14185226
>why do all Catholic, Orthodox, and most Protestant scholars all agree he’s not saying that?

Because if he was saying that it would completely undermine all the churches authority and prove that the Gnostics were right. And that IS what he is saying, why else would he refer to "Satan" as a God??

>all agree Gnosticism is a later invention?

Gnosticism existed prior to Christianity in the form of Hermeticism, the Essenes were Hermetic Jews, and the Essenes is the sect of Judaism that Jesus and John the Baptist followed.


Dont worry though, the teachings of Gnosticism aren't for everyone. Jesus makes it clear that he reveals his secrets to those who are worthy to know his secrets. Thats why he spoke in parables to everyone in the open, but told his Disciples hidden meanings of his teachings....

>>14185255
Alright, do your reading comprehension has at least improved to the point where you understand what I’m saying. You now acknowledge that the gospel of Mark says Jesus Christ is the God of Judgement
Now, you ask why I identify the God of Judgement with the God of the Old Testament. This perplexes me, I have to say. The God of Judgement comes from the Old Testament, specifically the book of Malachi. Mark, by quoting Malachi 2:17-3:1, identifies Jesus with the Old Testament God of Judgement

>>14185255
>this much goalpost moving
I haven’t responded to you until now but you really need to fuck off at this point

LMAO @ all the morons itt.
I'm going to explain the differing Christologies between books.
John's Christology is quite clear. Jesus is made equal with the Father.
Paul's Christology is a bit different than John's; Paul holds Jesus as a subordinate to God. Paul was also not an adoptionist.
Luke's is a more difficult. Some say that Luke's Christology is actually adoptionist. Luke 3:22 says "You are my Son, the Beloved; with you I am well pleased." The problem with this verse is that, as some scholars think, may have originally said "Today I have begotten you." They say that Christian scribes may have changed it to what it is now because they knew it supported an adoptionist Christology.

>>14185264
>Because if he was saying that it would completely undermine all the churches authority and prove that the Gnostics were right. And that IS what he is saying, why else would he refer to "Satan" as a God??
Because the world worships Satan. If I say someone’s God is money, for instance, I’m not saying that money existed in the cosmos and created them and gave them life, I’m merely saying they worship money. I’m the same way, Paul calls Satan the god of this world/god of this age to say people worship him instead of God. Paul still identifies God with the Old Testament creator, for instance in 2 Corinthians 6:2 he quotes from the “old testament evil god.” He in fact repeatedly quotes the Old Testament God throughout all his epistles
>Gnosticism existed prior to Christianity in the form of Hermeticism, the Essenes were Hermetic Jews, and the Essenes is the sect of Judaism that Jesus and John the Baptist followed.
This is larping by neo-Gnostics. No serious historian would consider any of this
>Dont worry though, the teachings of Gnosticism aren't for everyone. Jesus makes it clear that he reveals his secrets to those who are worthy to know his secrets. Thats why he spoke in parables to everyone in the open, but told his Disciples hidden meanings of his teachings....
Your condescension and sense of superiority is notes

>>14185298
Jesus is God but not that God
>>14185299
I'm simply upholding the truth

>>14185341
>Jesus is God but not that God
Not which God?

>>14185369
The old testament one, dummy

jesus turns the water to wine as his first miracle. john 2:11
>This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

Jesus then goes to jerusalem during the passover and does more miracles. 2:23
>[23] Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.

He then goes back to the spot of the original story and does a healing, which is called his second miracle, 4:54
>[54] This is again the second miracle that Jesus did, when he was come out of Judaea into Galilee.

Why does the story of jesus in gallilee doing miracle #1 then miracle #2 get interrupted by the jerusalem trip and more miracles. Why is #2 miracle not the second miracle?

by the way OP the best gospel is mark since its closest to the real jesus

>>14185150
>>14185162
>>14185172
>>14185186
>>14185190
>>14185195
>>14185203
>>14185215
>>14185255
>>14185264
>>14185341
I don’t know why all these posts were deleted, but they’re important to understanding the discussion
>>/lit/thread/14184854
>>14185383
Then why did the gospel of Mark open by identifying Jesus with the Old Testament God of Judgement?

>>14184854
Quick thematic guide to the gospels

Mark: Lemme tell u about Jesus
Luke: Lemme tell u about Jesus, but first the backstory. Stay tuned for the sequel (Acts).
Matt: Lemme tell u all the ways Jesus fulfills jewish prophecy
John: Lemme tell u how Jesus is the living Logos, incarnate son, of the triune God.

>>14184959
Nothing