/lit/ - Literature

Yeah, how about you fuck off fashit losers.

>>14146816
>fascist literature
>fascism didn't even exist when these books were written

>>14146824
Back to r*ddit if you can’t handle an opinion. Also nazism is hardly fascism, brainlet

>>14146835
>what are foundational texts

>>14146861
then what's the point of calling it fascist literature? to troll libtards epic style?

Fascists tend to censor or burn books rather than write or publish them.

>>14146868
Hegel was also recommended in the commie thread. Honestly just want to rec foundational works to anons that are interested in actually learning about fascism. The Pepe is just a semi relevant image. I know the thread is just gonna devolve into Evola posting and flame wars if it takes off at all, but I also know some people are genuinely interested in learning, and this is a literature board.

>>14146861
>foundationalism
LOL

>>14146816
Well, you got one right at least.

Check out the works of A. James Gregor. He’s a professor who has done a lot of writing on fascism and has a very interesting book called Mussolini’s Intellectuals where he outlines the philosophical origins of Fascist thought, and hits hard against the commonly held idea that fascism doesn’t have any real thought behind it. It’s really funny when you think about it. Fascism is a bit tough to define, but if you ask people who use it as a pejorative to explain the tenets of fascism you will get such a mishmash of contradictory and baseless answers. To most people it literally just means something like “bad and also racist authoritarian government”.

Gregor himself isn’t a fascist at all, which makes it a better read. Best analysis I’ve found and covers a lot of thinkers and ideas that are conspicuously absent from most of the info you’ll find when googling “what is fascism?”

>>14146879
Absolutely untrue, you probably can not explain how a fascist government would function, or who the foundational thinkers of the system are.

Why even post this? I’m not a fascist but fucking a are people like you annoying.

Nazism is highly anti-academic (read: not anti-creative) and therefore doesn’t have a big body of works backing it up

>>14146861
Hobbes was a monarchist. Sorel was a Marxist.

>>14146816
No, fuck you. Even Germans don't want your faggot asses around anymore.

>>14146944
Fascist thought is derived from the ideas presented in the text. I like a bottom up approach to researching ideology.

>>14146944
>Sorel was a Marxist.
So was Mussolini before he changed his views. What's your point, retard? How many Christian interpretations of Plato have you heard about, despite him preceding the religion by centuries? If you're going to attack OP's bait thread, try not to do it in such a stupid way.

go away FROG PLEB this board isn't for you.
Something has to be done about /lit/'s retard problem

Fascists should all be killed tbqhwyfam.

>The Prince
>Hobbes
>Hegel
>fascist

ok retard

How many fascists reproduce? Not trying to be insulting, just curious, because I'm a Muslim and we see reproduction as part of the seizing the future. If most fascists don't reproduce, then isn't that a major problem?

>>14144734

>>14146930
>Absolutely untrue

>>14147011
Right wingers are demographically more likely to sire children than left wingers. Ironic, that.

>>14147029
I mean fascists in particular

>>14147037
There probably aren’t enough to know. Not in America. But as it’s a reactionary movement, the further left we seem to trend, the further right these simple right wingers will go. Trump would have never gotten the bid 16 years ago.

>>14146926
Seconding this. It's a very well-researched book and one of the best on the subject in English.
I think Gregor exaggerates the influence of some of his thinkers (there are times when they come across as reacting to Mussolini's actions rather than the other way around), but his thesis that the primary goal of Italian fascism was to create a developmental dictatorship to deal with issues specific to Italy is very convincing.
It's hard to read the book and still believe in a "generic fascism" common to Mussolini, Hitler, Franco, etc. There's been so much nonsense thrown around by both antifascists and neonazis alike that the word barely means anything anymore. I don't know if I agree with Gregor 100% but I respect his ability to deal with the subject using a degree of restraint absent elsewhere.

>>14146965
So you are a complete fucking retard who doesn't understand the nature of ideas, who doesn't even know where to begin to understand.
That's why you typed up a retarded post on a retarded topic, and topped it off with 'try not to shitpost'. The half intentional irony there is the worst part. You took a retarded thread and doubled down on it with an epic retard troll like the retarded double retard you are.

>>14146879
>nazis burn porn and socialist propaganda from russia that one time
>fAscISts dONt wRiTe bOoKs!1!

>>14147072
Literally seething

>>14147050
You are wrong, he could have run as a Democrat 16 years ago

>>14146816
Is there actually any writings that address the fact that neither behavior nor IQ come from race?

>>14146816
Are there actually any writings that address the fact that neither behavior nor IQ come from race?

>>14147212
Race relativists are even more retarded than racists.

>>14147220
Race is literally a collection of physical traits that can be broken down into three groups; Caucasoid, Negroid, and Mongoloid.
Behavior and IQ are not derived or determined by race. That is a literal scientific fact.

>>14147236
>That is a literal scientific fact.
Umm, no.

>>14146926
>Gregor himself isn’t a fascist at all
He's a eugenicist.

>>14146816
>this list
are you fucking retarded anon

>>14147261
Hegel is essential fascist literature along with Foucault and Adorno.

>>14147243
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_categorization)
Yes. It is. Race was "created" (as a classification) to describe how different people have changed physically because of different environments.

>>14147290
>NOOOOO RACE IS A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT
lmao stay assblasted, mutt

>>14147296
All adjectives are social constructs because they are labels assigned to things that are real.
You not understanding my argument and creating a strawman from that is not an argument.

>>14147324
Bait

>>14147327
>explain what race is
>ask if anyone has arguments that support race being linked to IQ
>despite IQ not being a part of race
>"bait"

Ok boomer

>>14146816

>>14147354
Not him but the lack of self-awareness in your desperate attempt to crash this thread with skeptic^TM talking points is the only boomeresque thing I can currently observe in this thread. Now if you'll excuse me I have some Darjeeling to brew.

>>14147386

>>14147393

>>14146857
What are the main differences between the two? I'd assume the racial aspect is the main one.

>>14147290
So do you deny that differences in mean IQ exist among various racial groups?

>>14147395

>>14147406

>>14147387
Wow friend, that's really cool.
I'm still looking for an argument though.

>>14147403
No. I'm saying that race does not determine IQ.
They also exist WITHIN racial groups.

>>14147414

>>14147414
>Vonnegut
Every time.

>>14147421

>>14147432

>>14147436

>>14147418
How do differences in mean IQ exist within racial groups?

>>14147489
IQ is determined by genetics.
Ethnicities that are of the same race but have different enough genetics are almost guaranteed to have different average IQs.

>>14147453

>>14147534

>>14147515
Are you trying to say that race has no genetic basis now while IQ does or am I just all fucked up?

>>14147544

>>14147515
Ah I see what you are saying. I think you agree then that race implies an certain IQ on average, but race doesn’t necessarily imply IQ of a given individual belonging to that race. If that’s the case, then yeah I agree actually.

>>14147247
Yes.. so he is a fascist, just like everyone in 20th century America who were fans of eugenics. Fascists.

>>14146816
anybody read For My Legionaries?

>>14147547
Race is based on certain genetic characteristics.
IQ is a genetic characteristic, but is not one that race is based on.
IQ averages are useful because people of the same race tend to share genetics. But that does not mean that race determines IQ.

>>14147559
Yea.

>>14147577
It sounds to me like you just repeated a commonly accepted fact in a strange way to start an argument, but whatever.

>>14147577
To be fair, I think it’s pretty widely accepted even among the Ethnic Nationalist crowd that race doesn’t determine IQ, only that different races have different IQs on average. The fact remains that miscegenation between races characterized by a higher mean IQ and races characterized by a lower mean IQ is more likely to result in offspring with IQ lower the maximum IQ of the parent race than within one’s own race.

>>14147577
I don't get it. If race can determine characteristics such as height, why not IQ?

>>14147588
Seems like that to me too. It doesn’t btfo the race realists to restate what they believe

>>14147588
The basis that race determines IQ is causal to race determining behavior. So I wouldn't say that racial determinism is not commonly accepted.

>>14147593
Return to the mean for IQ is not really a basis for ethno-nationalism.
If that were the case, most (white) racists would admit that Ashkenazi Jews are a superior race.
The idea that certain races should have more or less rights or that it is moral to deny rights does not come from an observation in differences in averages of intelligence.

>>14147612
Race doesn't determine height, it's a classification of peoples with similar height (and skin color, and hair type, etc.).

>>14147568
I have, I really liked it. Not only a great story but a great philosophy as well. Very inspiring.

>>14147624
Should read "I wouldn't say that racial determinism is commonly accepted."

>>14147624
What did people use to reference race before they had identified racial categories? Was it based on continent? Country? Ethnicity? I hope this question makes sense.

>>14147624
I see what you mean, that there is a clear correlation but not a direct causality. But if genetics cause height, IQ, etc. and race is nothing more than clustering of clearly identifiable genetic groups, then it's fine to say that the genetics of racial group X determine that the bell curve for these characteristics in people belonging to said race.
If being human determines your height, then being a human of subgroup X further specifies it.

>>14147648
Probably what we now think of as ethnicities. Sub groups of races that have even more specific genetic characteristics. Race as in the three major races weren't classifications until the 16th century if I recall correctly.
Ethnicity is more specific anyway, so it is more useful. Plus now we have Semites, Arabs, and Hispanics, most of which are mixed race to some degree between Caucasoid and Mongoloid. But that's a little more into the weeds.

>>14147624
Honestly, you’re just imprinting your own misguided notions of what you think ethnic nationalism is onto nationalists and I guess fascists. The practicality of acknowledging differences in mean IQ among races is to show that 1. differences in races do exist on average, 2. these differences can’t be reduced to what is mere appearance and to a much lesser degree 3. to caution against miscegenation in order to minimize the chances of reducing the IQ of your progeny, not necessarily maximizing it. Further, Ethnic-Nationalists don’t typically wish to deny rights to any race. They maybe wish to deny citizenry to certain races in alignment with the commonly held ethnic-nationalist belief that nations should be comprised of racially homogenous people. If you mean to imply that citizenry of a nation not comprised of your own race is a a right then there’s no middle ground here. Lastly, I think you’re kind of dancing around the point here which is that differences not characterized by mere appearance do exist among racial groups. Nobody has ever really argued that race determines IQ or height, only that these attributes are typified at varying degrees by different races. There really is no argument here.

>>14147247
>He's a eugenicist
Proving anon's point

>>14147686
And ultimately the discussion of the relationship between IQ and race as it pertains to ethnic nationalism is completely irrelevant and deviates from the essence, which is simply claiming a home for a people. Even if we were talking about fucking Pygmies it wouldn't change anything, they are entitled to their land.

define fascism.

>>14147559
Well, they didn’t really consider race too much because generally speaking, races didn’t intermingle do the degree that they do in the modern era. It seems to me like they more heavily considered what would be characterized today as culture. Romans considered everyone beyond their borders as barbarians regardless of race. Danes didn’t regard Saxons as fellow whites so much as they regarded them as Saxons and they as Danes. So, while race was known to these people and it was acknowledged, it generally wasn’t much of a topic or area of commonality since race wasn’t particularly differentiated within these cultures themselves yet. Ancient Rome is probably the one exception as it contained citizenry of various cultures and races, but it was still predominantly white and definitely had a shared distinctly Roman culture.

>>14147726
Meant to reply this to >>14147648

>>14146816
>>14146824
>1 poster

>>14146816
Feder's work on urban design has piqued my interest as of late. While spiritual works have their obvious importance the NSDAP's technical plans are interesting to read about as well. Brendan Simms describes a young Hitler's interests as "architecture, town planning and music, particularly the connections between them" but I haven't found anything specifically describing this interplay.

>>14147386
Is Hitler's Revolution by Richard Tedor a reliable source? I haven't been able to find any information on the author besides an obscure radio interview.

>>14146926

Or you could just read Umberto Eco and realise the intellectualism behind fascism doesn't hold up to scrutiny because fascism isn't based in history; rather its "intellectualism" is based on an imagined past which is presented as real.

>>14147142

Responding, and pointing out someone's bullshit is "seething" now. Perhaps you should go to another board.

>>14147406
Wow, that's a shitty chart.

>>14148307
which book?

>>14147629
Seconding this

>>14147274

Damn, that's like next level tankie.

>The foundational text for Marxism is actually fascism

>>14147393

The Republic by Plato literally describes a society (for a thought experiment on why virtue is important) that is antithetical to fascism. Literally Plato argues for the removal of the family unit.

>>14146857
>"I-IT'S JUST MY OPINION! STOP BULLYING ME GUYS HAVEN'T YOU EVER HEARD OF OPINIONS?!?!?!"

>>14147406

The page one of these is pretty good for understanding western political thought. Although people who don't pair The Prince with Discourses of Livy are really stupid.

>>14147657

Sadly that isn't how genetics work.

>>14147704

So, white folks are going to leave America then so the Indians can have their land back?

>>14148328

Ur Fascism. It's an essay rather than a book.

>>14148388
They should, but they won't.

Anyone read Mein Kamf? I read about the first 30 pages of the Stalag translation, thus far. Definitely interesting, even if just for the historical significance. Hitler, for example, hated the Habsburgs and thought their own selfish goals held back Germans, and the region at large.

>>14148367
It's reminiscent of communism

>>14147072
based

>>14147100
>when you burn books and people call you bookburners
feels bad man

>>14148388
Keeping current borders as they are is suggested since it'll hopefully encourage peaceful relations between nations. Ethnically cleansing 200+ million whites from North America in a vain attempt to return to a pre-columbian status quo would defeat this purpose, no? Also,
>the Indians
monlith implies the Indians tribes weren't ethnically cleansing each other long before we arrived. Think more before you post.

>>14148420
The thinly veiled sarcasm towards incompetent monarchy and the occasional tangents on topics like how the history and language curriculum should be structured make MK comfy reading indeed. Stalag runs on a little bit at times but the authenticity makes it the obvious choice.

>>14148447
>monlith implies the Indians tribes weren't ethnically cleansing each other long before we arrived. Think more before you post.
I'm assuming you meant "were". Also, white people been killing each other in tribal conflicts for ages too; you gonna give back Wales and Cornwall, or the countless other examples of one tribe being on another tribes land, even though it's considered normal by most people for the a nation's borders to include that region?

And if you aren't gonna give back America then I'm assuming black Americans, white Americans, and Indians are just all gonna live harmoniously in this ethnically homogenous new nation? What is going to happen to black Americans who have as much right to America as white people based on your "it's too much work, also the natives sucked anyway" logic?

Also, I want to know where either Jews or Palestinians are going to live in this new world of yours.

>>14147290
Yes, the same as all species of all living things around the world have been classified. And you know what? These different species have different HABITS, different ways of GOING ABOUT THE WORLD because natural / sexual selection affects a great many things about an organism. Darwin called this ‘correlation of growth,’ as one trait changes between varieties of organisms some other traits change as well - there is never just one trait difference (skin color) between variaties (races).

Now Darwin also posited the idea that variations in skin color across races is due to their durability to diseases in the regions in which they inhabit (the ancestors of modern Europeans were resistant to European diseases, the ancestors of African races were resistant to African diseases, etc.) now who is to say that there were no other differences between these groups of peoples? Impossible, according to correlation of growth.

The different races experience the world differently and project that experience back onto reality through culture. Culture is the proof of differing races. Culture represents a collective worldview of a people, differing due to the material conditions in which they were brought up - natural selection.

>>14148233
Tedor was the deputy of the American Nazi Party. Decently biased boo but still some good information to learn. I recommend it.

>>14148388
Native Americans are a dead race at this point. Nevertheless not an argument and there’s no reason to turn america into some beige “”””melting pot”””” cultureless shithole.

>>14147624
>If that were the case, most (white) racists would admit that Ashkenazi Jews are a superior race.
Intelligence is not the only or even primary factor which determines the quality of a race. The only relevance of IQ in this determination is the connection between low IQ and criminality. Jews are too smart for inclusion in white society, they use it to manipulate the status quo to their own ends at the expense of others. I'm sure you'll continue to argue with strawmen of your own design, but I pray that perhaps your thinking was simply misinformed.

>>14148652

Cool, lets ignore the Native Americans.

What are you going to do about black Americans? And what about Hispanic Americans from Florida, Texas, or California which were part of the Spanish Empire before becoming part of the USA. What are you going to do with them?

>>14147397
Not the same poster, but facism is, super simply put, the idea of giving the government (or the government/military just taking) supreme power over businesses and industry. Doesn't usually end too well.

NatSoc is a kind of fascism, but fascism isn't necessarily NatSoc. NatSoc is the idea of giving the government power over industry, but not interfering TOO much, unless the government wants/needs to force businesses to mass manufacture weapons or uniforms or some shit. The Socialism part comes in Hitler recognizing the appeal of Marxism at the time, and realizing that the government was not looking after the common worker citizen and their needs, so he wanted to establish a limited work week, pensions, vacation time, work seeking programs, etc. This is why the economy leading up to the war was very powerful in Germany. All this fed into the "national" part of NatSoc in that the main purpose of every aspect of life needs to feed back into the ultimate goal of strengthening the country and German race/culture.

Honestly, in theory it's not that bad. Really it's just Hitler's war mongering and insistence on the camps that really fucked up his everything.

>>14147386
Even as someone who's read all of Mein Kampf, volumes 1 & 2 unabridged, I've always thought this chart was the most insane, autistic thing I've ever seen.

>>14147629
How's that version? I got a really shitty one that just has Corneliu's picture on it, and it seems to have been a scanned pdf that was then reprinted, so there's errors out the ass (b's are h's, s's will be commas, really bizarre)

>>14148307
>Umberto Eco

>>14148420
I actually just finished the Ford translation. Uhh... there's definitely interesting parts of MK, but really Hitler should've listened to his editors more and even picked up 2 additional editors. No reason why it needed to be half as long as it was.

I really did like the historical and autobiographical accounts, though. Just the more technical and theoretical parts he really needed a LOT more brevity. I don't regret reading it, but I wouldn't recommend it for even the staunchest of neo-nazis. Just read Corneliu Codreanu and then maybe some highlights from MK

Fascism is dead and it's not going to save the white race. Stop living in the past and stop LARPing.

>>14149340
It's good, i did notice a decent few misspellings throughout but I'm pretty sure it beats any other edition easily.

>>14148420
It's good. I read the stalag too, it's slow at some point but there are some real gems in there.

>>14149286
well under your explanation did the US not implement something like fascist control/national socialism during WW2?

you are all faggots

>ideology based on virtually indiscriminate murder
I'm an "intellectual" guys I swear my politics isn't just to justify my unhinged temperament

>>14150461
a) you don't understand fascism
b) Are intellectuals not allowed to want to kill people?

>>14148540
>I'm assuming you meant "were". Also, white people been killing each other in tribal conflicts for ages too; you gonna give back Wales and Cornwall, or the countless other examples of one tribe being on another tribes land, even though it's considered normal by most people for the a nation's borders to include that region?
Yes, whites have been doing the same to each other. If we throw out the current borders due to past population movements, what historical borders do we declare as legitimate? Where in history would we literally draw the line, and why? The goal is ensuring each nation/people has space that they can peacefully exist in. The more that modern borders would have to be changed to do this the more blood and sweat the endeavor will take, hence my defense of generally keeping the US borders the same. The only other option besides this 'peaceful nationalism for each nation' would be simply declaring that might makes right, and all of the aforementioned tribal conflicts will quickly resume.

>And if you aren't gonna give back America then I'm assuming black Americans, white Americans, and Indians are just all gonna live harmoniously in this ethnically homogenous new nation? What is going to happen to black Americans who have as much right to America as white people based on your "it's too much work, also the natives sucked anyway" logic?
Certainly, I agree multiracial empire won't work out. The Africans brought here against their will have a birthright to America. Simply picking up ~35 million people and forcing them into the African bush is immoral and impractical. As a result, ceding them a suitable area from the territorial US seems to be the most humane solution. Repatriation to Africa should be offered as well.

>Also, I want to know where either Jews or Palestinians are going to live in this new world of yours.
Jews are a unique as an international people, but they should be forced to find some peaceful solution with the Palestinians. If US support was withdrawn I imagine they would be more humble.

>>14150461
Literally read any selections in the OP. It is a political discipline. Fascist Italy didn't even support the ethnic cleansing of Jews. Although they did turn a blind eye.

>>14146816
>The Prince
>Origin and Nature of the State-Hobbes
That's fucking retarded. That would pretty much mean anything that has a State is Fascism.

>>14150418
Nevermind that, he has no idea what he's talking about

>>14149357
what's gonna save it then?

>>14151934
Advocating for the pre-1965 immigration controls in a non spastic way would be a start. You're not going to convince anyone with a Roman salute, it only makes the job of serious advocates that much harder.

Due to the institutional war on illiberal ideas to the right of Liberalism (leftism having been successfully assimilated and married to Liberalism and capitalism after WWII) many rightists are feeling around in the dark for both articulation and even the words to define their ideas and their views of their opposition. Half a century so completely enraptured the culture and discourse of the American and Atlantic world that to oppose it means to reinvent the wheel.

Americans in particular can never really divorce their ideas and articulations from Liberal constructs, becoming at most regressive Liberals.

Convince me that fascism isnt just another "HUR DUR CAPITALISM BAD" rebranded meme ideology.
The founder of the movement was even a Socialist

>>14152069
And we're getting there. Inching at a snail's pace but getting there. Just now smashing the idols of Antisemitism and the Holocaust. Just now accepting critiques of capitalism. Just now becoming aware of power relations. These things would have been self-evident to the most illiterate European worker or peasant in the early 20th century.

>>14147050
Drumpf effectively killed conservatism in America, especially the reactionary strains. realigning the republican platform away from the theocratic wing(besides the Mike Pence Token) and refocusing republican politics on a racist platform that explicitly demonizes the Latino population that was the republicans last hope for recruiting more religious fundies to pander to. Trump's base may be stupid but they will eventually realize when the gaslighting dies down that orange man is full of shit, and contrary to making America great again the Trump administration simply siphoned off more of their income while destroying every aspect of government that actually worked for them. The climate change denial is also a death sentence, things are going to keep getting worse faster and people will not trust a right winger again for the rest of USA's history (which may not be very long). Trump might have been a symbolic victory for the American right in the short term but really it's a death sentence and the only real winners are the special interest groups behind the MAGA agenda. The right wing has no future in America, at least not until this civilization collapses. Hopefully Bernie will get the dem' nomination so we can get over this cringe moment asap.

>>14152087

It's rhetorically "hurr durr capitalism is bad" but in practice it's just capitalism wedded to racism/Nationalism.

>>14152087
Fascism is if anything too close to capitalism. It could be described as a reaction to capital's nihilism to inject aesthetic and spiritual presence through a marrying of capital and nationalism. This is not possible as it arrests capital mid-way to where it wants to be, which is free of national borders and restrictions on the free-flow of goods including human beings, independent of if capital is good for the peoples using it.

>>14151826
That is correct. Anarchist Monarchists rise up

>>14152111
>i use capitalism/fascism/liberalism interchangeably
the absolute state of trannypol

>>14152118
Basically a country open to markets becomes Liberal immediately afterwards. The Eastern Bloc for instance was in a comparative time-capsule and is at most twenty or thirty years behind western Europe, but will catch up through capital injection in about 15 years to where Germany is today, culturally speaking.

>>14152123
No, no. That tranny's not wrong. Fascism isn't the same as National Socialism. Italy or Spain couldn't hack actual Third Positionism. It's trying to square the circle of capital inherently being against human beings. Trying to aesthetically and spiritually arrest capital's development.

>>14152069
Our society is still fumbling for meaning. But we’re finding certain flaws in the system that until now were treated as untouchable icons. For instance, class mobility which is a myth in almost all of the west was one of the foundational tenets of this current American ideal. But young people, as much as everyone on this board likes to cry about what they like and what they believe in; they’re waking up to the idea that what they were born as is probably what they’re going to die as and if anything their children are going to die worse off.This current society as constructed isn’t keeping pace with modernity. The people most fit to raise good children aren’t having any because where would they find the time?

And change needs to happen, but it can’t happen at the pace required due to the structure of our current government. Our laws are still a decade behind where the internet is. And this is by design. Once people realize that American democracy isn’t some flawless system that must be worked on from within rather than from an external perspective, then they will be receptive to movements such as this.

>>14152145
That's a pretty good realistic assessment.

>>14152123

Liberalism and Fascism are, by their nature expressions of capitalism. That doesn't mean liberalism = fascism; the USA was and is very different from Fascist Italy. But Liberalism and Fascism still operate in a capitalist frame work.

Hell, most forms of Marxism also operate in a capitalist framework as well. The objections most people have against fascism aren't even their economic principles but their social ones. Economically fascism isn't really any different from liberalism.

>>14152188
check'd

>>14152188
>Economically fascism isn't really any different from liberalism.
Economically, fascism isn't really any different from socialism.

>>14152145
>they’re waking up to the idea that what they were born as is probably what they’re going to die

For most people they'll actually be worse off economically when they die then when they're born. I think China is the literal only major country where this isn't the case.

>>14152195

True. The Zapatistas and a few scattered co-ops around the world are the only ones where there is perhaps a chance of a non-capitalist economic system succeeding, but even then all it will take is a CIA backed strongman in Mexico or Spain to send in death squads and those experiments will be over too. And if we know one thing about the CIA its that they love sending in death squads to kill left wingers.

>>14152201
I’ve said this before but Americans are socially worse off than they were 20 years ago. In terms of interpersonal relationships, time spent with family etc. why isn’t this big news? Distractions. Interpersonal communication has had an inverse relationship with screen time, and we are worse off for it. Rates of suicide and depression among young people have only increased. At what point do we stop being insular in our analysis? When do we realize that it might not be a problem of values, it might not be the fault of electronics or lazy and distanced parents? That what we’re seeing is an effect of the structure of our society and unlikely to change unless we see structural change? I’m not a fascist. I am just looking for alternatives.

>>14152188
>>14152195

Ok, then tell me what ISN'T capitalism?

>>14152195
>Capitalism will still exist after humans go extinct

>>14152272

Literally any society before 1600.

>>14152188
>>14152272
All prevelant political forms since merchantilism have been economy-centric. The economy is either constricted to a purpose or the people are constricted to the economy.

>>14152307
Islam understands the economy

>>14152303
>>14152307
So, there's no alternative

>>14152228

Blaming people being on their phones/computers isn't looking at things realistically.

People aren't getting paid. And they haven't been getting paid for around forty years. Neo-liberalism has led to massive stagnation of wages pretty much everywhere, and unions have been getting destroyed.

For a lot of working people unions were the main source of community in people's lives and now that's gone. My suggestion would be if you're in a job which has a union join it and get involved in it. But chances are you don't have that option so if you can find a hobby which requires you to interact with people in meatspace; but that is if you can afford said hobby, which you might not be able too.

Otherwise, I'd suggest joining like a cringe teir anarchist or communist local group. This also may not be possible if you don't live near a major city. Even though the movement will be cringe AF having to deal with people in meatspace and form solidarity/comradery with them is you best bet for dealing with modern alienation and isolation.

You could also join a cringe teir fascist/neo-nazi group too, but then you'll be even more of a loser and may have to give up whatever social relationships you currently have (shockingly enough people are usually more comfortable with socialists than fascists; might be due to low level socialist not advocating genocide unlike most cringe right-wingers).

Unions should be banned and persecuted for terrorism desu

>>14152351

At the moment? Nope.

At least Marxism wants to do away with capitalism, but even then I personally do not believe that Marxism will actually lead to the end of capitalism. The best thing about Marxism is it critiques capitalism very well, but doesn't actually answer the key question of how to overthrow capitalism. If I knew how to replace capitalism with something better I wouldn't be posting on a Mongolian finger-painting board.

>>14152366

Translation: I suck Jeff Bezos' dick

>>14152272
>>14152307
>>14152351

>Now, the use of culture is that it helps us, by means of its spiritual standard of perfection, to regard wealth as but machinery, and not only to say as a matter of words that we regard wealth as but machinery, but really to perceive and feel that it is so. If it were not for this purging effect wrought upon our minds by culture, the whole world, the future, as well as the present, would inevitably belong to the Philistines. The people who believe most that our greatness and welfare are proved by our being very rich, and who most give their lives and thoughts to becoming rich, are just the people whom we call the Philistines. Culture says: “Consider these people, then, their way of life, their habits, their manners, the very tones of their voices; look at them attentively; observe the literature they read, the things which give them pleasure, the words which come forth out of their mouths, the thoughts which make the furniture of their minds; would any amount of wealth be worth having with the condition that one was to become just like these people by having it?”
- Culture and Anarchy, Matthew Arnold

>>14152351
Nope, politics isn't going to recover anytime soon. But there are perhaps alternatives outside the political domain. If you're looking for something to read then I recommend Men Among the Ruins.

>>14152382
Bezos is based and he charges me less for books than other shops.

>>14152351
When people have money they won't easily let it go.

Study political philosophy and find an alternative or rather drive yourself insane.

>>14152375
Ye Marxism shouldn't ever be applied irl since it fails to explain how exactly to achieve its ideals when starting from capitalism.

Hack uni professors preach it bc they believe if enough impressionable students regurgitate this communism melarcky then it'll just happen. All that'll happen is that the majority of plebians will never understand how use capitalism to their benefit solidifying the status quo we see today.

>>14152389
Culture can't over come capitalism when our culture in the West is so driven by capitalistic ideals. People will fucking starve before they give up their iPhones.

>>14152405
>Why go to 5 or 6 stores when you could go to just one?

>>14152425
Yeah, I mean, yeah.

>>14152375
exactly, the problem with marxism is that it still worships the coin as the center of all human activity.. the displacement, the alienation, all that shit remains the same. it's the human factors that we want back in the center of our lives, not some new big daddy government or mode of control. we want control of our own lives

>>14152421
for sure, there needs to be a way of people seeing what they are missing.. there is a lot of pressure on people to keep moving in the system, to self blame, mental health, laziness guilt, status anxiety. Even extinction rebellion... which one of these cunts wants to change their sweet ass lives?

A lot of shit needs destroying before finding pastures new

>>14146879
Like transgender studies?

>>14147395
>Ernst Junger
>Hitler
Go back

>>14152421
>People will fucking starve before they give up their iPhones.
This is a dumb thing to say because it's not true. If you knew people that can't afford iphones, you'd realize that.
>>14152437
>it still worships the coin as the center of all human activity.
The only alternative for you is some AnPrim scenario where people worship even more centralized and archaic instruments of power, like spears or cock.

>>14152421
No hope for America but that doesn't mean same goes for all Western countries. You're not really making sense though, if the culture shifted so that people weren't so pious towards comfort and technology then capitalism wouldn't stand a chance. Do I think that's likely though? Not really.

Where do i start with Evola? Im very interested in Revolt Against the Modern World and The Doctrine of Awakening but im not sure if i should just jump into whatever i want with him

>>14152453
to be honest dude, you sitting on the end of my cock would make fine respite from the labors of capital

>>14152461
You can start anywhere as long it's one of his major works.

>>14152453
>If you knew people that can't afford iphones, you'd realize that.
Jesus Christ you fucking autist you don't have to take shit so literally.

>>14152468
>tfw no anarchist bf to worship eachother's dicks

>>14148420
Honestly was a very tough read for me. I have no clue why this >>14147386 thing here tells you to start with Mein Kampf. It can be a bit confusing and really didn't give me much of what i wanted. But it was a valuable bookm id just say i wish i held off on it for a while

>>14149340
Im the same way. Got an edition with his picture on it. Huge book but thin. Looks like a damn magazine. Id honestly rather buy another that looks better but im not sure what amazon has.

knut hamsun was cool. carl schmitt also.....the rest, not so much

>140 posts
lol

>>14152408

Marxism is an incredibly useful lense for understanding capitalism and how it effect our everyday lives. Also, the "Marxists teachers" teach it because it's still one of the most thorough theories for understanding capitalism, which we all live under. Very few "Marxist" teachers are revolutionaries or even socialists.

>>14152421
While you're correct your example is shitty. Your example should have been that it'll be hard to overcome capitalism when everyone wants their own American Dream which is innately capitalist.

The whole "Americans view themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires" has a lot of weight to it; especially as it's constantly reinforced by culture.

>>14152473
you fucking memer, otherwise your point makes literally no sense.

>>14152541
you are literally the one confirming his point by saying you won't give up your iphone for spears, or sitting on the end of my dick

>>14152536
>Marxism is a good lense to understand capitalism
It's a good lense to be critical through but very few if any people will apply these criticisms in a productive way. Capitalism leads people to be amoral and Marxism leads people to be critical of those people, not how to compete with them.

Marxism leaves you dead in the water.

>>14152592
lay off the weed, retard

>>14152459
>If the culture shifted
Capitalism means culture will never move on. It's less than unlikely fren.

Majority of People won't fight when you replace them, they may not even fight when you invade them, when they are comfortable people will not change.

Capitalism isn't about money, it's about lemmings being and continuing to be comfortable.

>>14152660
>Capitalism isn't about money, it's about lemmings being and continuing to be comfortable.
and a whole lot of normativity with that comfort, you must be comfortable, otherwise you are worthless

>>14152428
You don't see the problems with funnelling all of your finances into one super entity like Amazon?

>>14152736
I do but saving money is more important. You don't see the problem with spending more money than you should/saving less money than you could?

>>14152745
You can support your community but only if you chose to. To enjoy community requires sacrifice. Places like Amazon allow you to sacrifice as little as possible but it is all for their gain in the end, not yours.

Individualism + the pressure of capitalism seems to erode any sense of community we dare to have.

But I get it, I'm preaching but I fucking use Amazon all the time. There's no competition which is dangerous in itself .

>>14151920
I don't? Please, elaborate.

>>14152490
Yeah, that publisher kinda sucks. You really have to dig through all the different editions of the same book Amazon offers, since for God knows what reason, they tend to default to the worst possible ones. Amazon lumps all editions and translations of the same books together, and keep the reviews for different versions together. Amazon kinda sucks in terms of UI, desu. Be extra careful when switching between "hard cover", and "paper back", etc, cause it'll switch editions on you as well.

Try to find the version of For My Legionaries on Amazon with the Archangel on it.

>>14147011
Most rw people/fascists that I know see it the same way you do. A lot of them want to have 5 kids, and want to do so either for racial/demographic reasons, religious reasons, personal reasons, or some combination of all three.

>>14147037
Fascism in general has a lot of themes of "securing the future". Having children is often a big part of that.

>>14147624
>Ashkenazi Jews are a superior race.
They would accept that if the science wasn't bullshit.
Even Nazis accept that Japanese/Oriental asians have a higher IQ.

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2018/04/the-myth-of-jordan-petersons-integrity.html

People are reading Mishima, Junger, and Celine.

>>14147290
Oh, so different physical characteristics are adapted according to different environments? Almost as if certain physical environments elicit certain race characteristics. Weird how you just outed your own argument. Good job, retard.

>>14147236
>Caucasoid, Negroid, and Mongoloid
Even most race realists aren't that retarded.

>>14146816
Started reading Adolf Hitlet Ultimate Avatar, good read, really enjoying the mysticism and combination of gods to understand the deeper spiritual struggle.

>>14147290
>t. coping dysgenic reject devolved mongrel abomination

>>14153291
>hitler says he isn't racist
ok then guess he's not racist my mistake

>>14146816
>only two fascists country ended as complete failure

Fuck off at least commie have china now.

>>14153291
>voxday
Isn't that the guy who couldn't understand JP's famous lobster quote? Why are you quoting a brainlet.

>>14155532
>ended in complete failure
This is the ultimate brainlet take. Fascist governments were destroyed by external force, not internal collapse like communist states. Fuck off yourself.

>>14147577
Well, considering that ~80% of the genome has an impact on intelligence, it's a certainty that many of the same loci which characterize a given genetic profile (ethnicity) will also have an impact of IQ distribution.

>>14146816
Some of Pareto's works are good for understanding the economics of fascism.

>>14155687
>italy decide to wage a war they knew they weren't prepared for and lose
>hitler lucked out and turn germaby's recovering economy toward his autistic project of colonizing eadtern europe, get btfo by ruskies

Their downfall was entirely their own fault. Not sure why you feel the need to lie about that. Isn't that a jewish thing to do?

>>14153291
Hitler is right but fuck the Chinks

not sure if this is the thread to ask but are there any readings for a decentralized third position city state model?

Anyone read Armin Mohler's Nasenring?

>He cites a public opinion poll conducted some years ago, in which Germans selected at random were asked: “Who was guilty of the German-Hungarian war of 1893?” A decisive majority readily answered “the Germans,” confessing collective guilt for a conflict that, in fact, never took place. Only a small minority responded with “the Hungarians” or “don't know.”

>>14158191
There is stuff like that within the big tent of National Socialist thought. I don't know anything specifically city state, but there was a lot of talk about autarky and semi-autonomous areas, and surprisingly, the reducing of cities back to more traditional and manageable levels as hubs rather than as the norm of human existence. You might look into people like Walther Darre, Gottfried Feder, etc. There's a few books like How Green Were the Nazis? and Green Totalitarianism. Also Bramwell's "Hitler's Green Party."

I know this isn't what you asked for specifically but these people were eclectic it surprised me, so I wonder if browsing around you might find some super interesting thinker who was relatively minor in his historical impact or success within the party.

You might also look into all the varieties of corporatism, things like social credit. Again they were willing to radically think outside the box of urban technocratic capitalism, so you get weird suggestions about reverting to village-and-city models, cities as regional hubs, the resurrection of guilds and fraternities and so forth. Within that eclecticism I wouldn't be surprised if someone has talked at length about a polis model for cities, as a replacement for the pathetic slums and cubicles we live in.

>>14158734
>>14158191
Apparently Benoist talks about it a bit, but probably only superficially as one example of an ethnos having political form.

https://www.counter-currents.com/2011/10/rethinking-democracy-alain-de-benoists-the-problem-of-democracy/

>>14158734
Not him but i appreciate this. Sounds incredibly interesting

>>14151920
Please tell us why man. I ma curios

Has anyone read Oswald Mosley or Benito Mussolini's autobiographies? I never hear anything about those

>>14158763
Many people under Nazi banner were borderline scifi authors, with how much they were willing to speculate, on the one hand about how deeply the technological, capitalistic, and massifying rot of modernity had affected the basic dynamics of human existence, and on the other hand about potential re-moldings of modern life to fix these problems.

That's not to say they were all right or good or anything, but honestly, it can almost be a "how didn't I know this was possible BEFORE reading this?" moment, because your brain has been trained to think in certain boxes by a century of lowered expectations. Lowered expectations about what kind of great commitment and accomplishment human beings are capable of, lowered expectations about what kind of social and economic reform is "reasonable." One of the most useful tools of the status quo is that it seems like the self-evident "default." Whenever your unconscious mind idly wonders "why couldn't we just do this massive engineering project to benefit the whole country? Is it really that hard to do such things?" you tend to immediately think "no, that's just not how things work, projects like that take 50 years, and they inevitably go over budget and take another 50 on top of that to really be done." Then yoyu go back and read these people who were not only willing to pitch big ideas, but who actually succeeded in implementing some of them.

Thomas Rohkramer might be worth looking into.

>>14155506
kek

>>14158811
I forgot to say, the biggest one in my opinion is the willingness to think about usury/capital as a fundamentally broken and parasitic economic system. But it's a global system, so thinking about replacing or overturning it necessarily meant thinking about completely different forms of socio-economic existence, similar to Marxists.

Who today can even imagine the idea of saying "no" to international capital, to the idea that economies always and necessarily involve inflation, speculation, debt and wage slavery? It's the default, it's just "how it is." Economists are propagandists for this system, the average joe assumes it's immutable, and you are raised by and live with these average joes all your life. Then you read Ezra Pound fulminating against usury and talking about resurrecting the "medieval" character of human existence and for the first time in your life you see the possibility of being free, even if it means fighting against those who don't want you to be free.

*ahem*
READ MOLDBUG
NO MATTER YOUR FLAVOR OF RIGHT WING
FUCKING READ MOLDBUG
REQUIRED FUCKING READING

>>14158885
Redpill me on him then

>>14148565
>all species of all living things around the world have been classified.
false

Bump

>>14149286
Weren’t the soviets fascist then?

>>14153061
>>14158778
Fascism is the political subjugation of industry (and nation) towards the state. Socialism is the political subjugation of industry towards the worker. Neither one demands total state ownership or manipulation over industry and both were movements founded on unemployment / workers rights. In both cases the workers are represented by the state to some degree and the state had a mixed economic policy. The economic goal of the Fascist state is to prepare a system where the economy can effectively serve the purposes of the state in wartime. This is also common to National Socialism though there is additionally a large focus on other economic goals, taken from Marxism though not entirely foreign to orthodox Fascism, particularly that of abolishing worker exploitation.

>>14160598
Soviets were totalitarians but they weren't ultranationalists nor did see as private industry or economic competition as legitimate. The "not real Communism" debate is pretty worn out at this point.

Can one you retards explain how right Hegelianism is tangibly different (Giovanni goes over this)?

>>14147719
>define fascism.