/lit/ - Literature

Gnosticism. Or theism if you don't have the time. Atheism is for bugmen "science is awesone" types. Nihilism is cringe. Agnosticism makes sense but it's spineless.

>>14134514
atheism, anything else is cringe

5 point calvinism

Atheism is the absence of a religious belief

>>14134531
Are there any good books on Gnosticism?

>>14134542
New Atheists worship muh science and logic, though.

Why do atheists still behave like Christians but a little more degenerate.

You guys pretend to be free yet still act like God is watching you

buttercunt is the absence of worthwhile posts

>being open-minded, with a leaning toward rationalism

>>14134535
Atheism is dull.

>>14134542
>muh atheism is absence of belief
no, it's the belief that there is no God.
>>14134540
Protestantism is atheism.

>>14134553
Because science has gotten us closer to the truth of the universe than any phony religion?
>>14134555
Agnosticism is cringe. Have fun going to hell for being a pussy if he's real, retard. At least I'll go to hell heroically for denying him - even if he doesn't exist.

>>14134553
Scientism, the church of science, is as much a religious doctrine as other religions since it's believers also stubbornly claim that they're correct and right, just like all the other religions.

>>14134576
>Because science has gotten us closer to the truth of the universe than any phony religion?
So New Atheism is a religion then? Gotcha.

>>14134531
>Agnosticism makes sense but it's spineless.
Why would you base your beliefs on whether or not they seems "spineless" rather than on what can be proven emperically?

>>14134576
Science got us closer to the mechanics of the physical world, not closer to the truth of the universe.

>>14134576
Religions aren't meant to "get us to the truth of the universe." Read Taleb.

>>14134591
Why would you care about empiricism? Just choose what works for you.

>want to be a Christian
>want to be a Catholic specifically
>incredibly interested in the saints, mysticism, history, and theology
>start asking Mary to pray for me
>fail NNN today

Should I just hang myself? I'm pretty worthless.

>>14134586
No, because religion presupposes the metaphysical. With science we can recognize that everything is material, and therefore act with that in mind, bringing us closer to the truth. Believing in a god gives you a vague understanding of reality..
>>14134593
No, it proved that religion is fake
>>14134598
Oh, so it's just to make you feel good. How childish

>>14134576
there are rationalist that are religious, by the strictest definition, as in they identify with a religion
>i am christian

theyre just much, much, much less likely to believe
>yes, Jesus was a zombie who actually did rise from the dead
theyre more like to be religious because they recognize the positivities of religion
>fosters community
>provides sense and purpose
>plenty of worthy stories and morals that are taught in religious texts
>the world has by and large curtailed warfare and large-scale destruction from religion run amok
>why not continue to adhere to my religion, and by extension my culture?

>>14134591
Agnosticism is literal fence sitting. I can understand ietsism, believing that there's a greater power and not adhering to any particular human doctrine, but agnosticism is the equivalent of not picking because you can't decide.

>>14134598
based

only daoism and buddhism everything else is garbage

>>14134608
So you're a materialist then? Cringe.

>>14134624
Is my IQ higher than a rock? Of course it is. Read a book, you religious ape.

>>14134568
Atheism is the absence of a belief in a creator, an afterlife and an immortal soul. It is an extreme version of agnosticism.
An agnostic is a fence sitter who refuses to think about the problem before him. The atheism goes with the physical facts of life over the fictions of the ancients.
There is no church. There is no traditionals to cling to. It is just a word for categorization.

Write it down. Get it through your thick skull.

>>14134608
>No, it proved that religion is fake
Religion pretty much exists and it's real.

>>14134607
>want to be a Christian
>thinking about becoming an hero
I'm pretty sure those two are usually mutually exclusive. Don't kill yourself, anon. There's more to life than a piece of paper. Also, what's an NNN?

>>14134608
>Believing in a god gives you a vague understanding of reality
Believing in God does not effect your understanding of reality. It changes our behaviour, not our understanding of reality.
>Oh, so it's just to make you feel good. How childish
You have a childish understanding of religion. Religion is a risk-survival heuristic.

Never spread your midwit opinions about religion again until you read Taleb.

>>14134634
Prove. It.

>>14134636
No nut November. It's mostly a meme, but I legit have a problem with porn/masturbation addiction so I wanted to test myself. I lasted just over a week. I don't necessarily want to die but I'm a loser NEET who doesn't really have any reason to be happy.

>>14134630
Why can't gaythiests last longer than a few posts without embarassing themselves? Every fucking time lol

>>14134613
>not picking because you can't decide.
I mean... Yeah...

>>14134642
You can go to a Christian church and there's people being part of a religion, or to mosque.

>>14134640
>risk-survival heuristic
What hogwash. So you advocate for religion, not because you believe in it, but because of how it affects culture? Pathetic. You advocate not for the truth, but for feeling good.
>>14134650
Prove your "god".

>>14134647
noporn seems legit
nofap seems cult, and at best, a test and barometer of your willpower
>nofap may teach you and give you a better understanding of self-discipline
>nofap will not give you superpowers transforming you to the overman

>>14134633
Why are atheists so vague about their belief that a creator is not real? You parade your belief as an absence of belief. It just creates more confusion.

>>14134656
I could go to a scientologist church and see the same thing. People do silly things.
>>14134663
Belief is not absence of belief. Open your dictionary, if you have one. Ape.

>>14134660
I know it won't give me superpowers, but it just goes to show how little self-discipline I have. I'm22 and I've already had close to 20 jobs in the past 4 years, quitting most within a month. By every measure, I am worthless.

>>14134647
>I don't want to die.
>I just don't want to live.
I'm on the same boat, anon. It's literally all about motivation. You need to set short-term and long-term goals. Which you can kind of did with NNN, but at least you tried and lasted over a week. That's something, right?

>>14134657
>Prove your "god".
I don't need to.

>>14134640
>It changes our behaviour, not our understanding of reality.
you don't understand reality if you believe in god you dope. you believing your kindergarten thoughts of the world are equal to an understanding it is just your delusion. being a retard worshiping some infinite+1 jew fairy tale is the surest sign you're unaware of reality

>>14134663
No need to share pics, dear.
Go check your dictionary

>>14134673
Exactly. He is as real as a flying spaghetti monster. No real reason to believe.

>>14134667
Scientology is a scam. Christianity was a metaphysical revolution that changed the world. Either way, I just proved that religion existed.

>>14134663
why are you even giving buttercunt attention?
shes an ugly hag with a sandy vagina, and perhaps worst, retarded by any measure

>>14134670
i wish you luck anon.
here is some unwarranted advice you never asked for
set smaller goals, achieve them, and then set slightly larger goals.

>>14134681
Christianity is a scam. Have fun donating to your priest who rapes little kids.

>>14134679
>flying spaghetti monster
Redditors have no place here, retard. /lit/ is a Christian board.

If religion is so bad and inferior to science, why does every single civilization develop a religion(s) of some sort while only a handful of civilizations developed "science"?

>>14134688
That's a problem with the insitution, not with the true beliefs.

>>14134689
Cope. Your god is just as believable as the spaghetti monster. If you think otherwise, prove your "god".
>>14134696
God isn't real

>>14134657
>What hogwash
Appeal to stone fallacy, sweaty.
>So you advocate for religion, not because you believe in it, but because of how it affects culture?
I am Catholic myself. And religion positively effects behaviour and culture.
>You advocate not for the truth, but for feeling good.
Cope more. You've replaced worship of God with the worship of some vague concept of truth. Truth, the secularists version, is the secularists equivalent the theists God.

>>14134691
Religion makes us strive for creativity, art, poetry, etc. Science comes in a time when soulless industrialization is at its peak.

>>14134702
>God isn't real
What is?

>>14134679
>muh flying spaghetti monster
OH NONONONONONONO

>>14134710
You don't really believe in a god, then. You're telling me that religion is only good because it's beneficial to society. You're not religious, you're an utilitarian ffs!
>>14134715
Reality. Now prove sky daddy, boy.
>>14134716
Yep. Just as believable as sky daddy. Prove your god if you object.

>the world sucks
>there's no point in anything
What's the appeal of nihilism?

all of them

>>14134725
That's passive nihilism. Look into active nihilism.

>>14134720
>You don't really believe in a god,
I do believe in God.
>you're an utilitarian ffs!
I prefer virtue ethics.
>Yep. Just as believable as sky daddy. Prove your god if you object.
Why?

>>14134720
I normally hate basedjak posters, but if there was ever a time for it, it would be now.

>>14134716
>>14134715
>>14134710
>>14134696
https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/theory-evolution/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaur
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Bang_Theory
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine
all these are real
your god is not

>>14134757
>I do believe in God.
Prove that your god is real
>Why?
Let me demonstrate your logic. I fucked your mother. If you ask for proof, let me simply question why I should, and imply that it's axiomatic that I fucked your mother.
>>14134759
Not an argument. Prove your god.

>>14134774
>Let me demonstrate your logic. I fucked your mother. If you ask for proof, let me simply question why I should, and imply that it's axiomatic that I fucked your mother.
Nice non sequitur. I don't have to justify my faith as it is a gift from God.

>>14134762
All things supported by most religions.
>>14134774
I don't have to prove my God, I feel him. I'm sorry that you cannot feel his eternal and ever present love. It must be hard to live like that.

>>14134607
read the Lord of the Rings again

>>14134762
This is why redditors should never get out of their containment site. How old are you? 14, tops?

>>14134762
The Big Bang theory was first proposed by a Catholic priest, you stupid nigger lmao

>>14134782
I don't have to justify my faith as it is a gift from the flying spaghetti monster.
>>14134785
I don't have to prove the flying spaghetti monster, I feel him. I'm sorry that you cannot feel his eternal and ever present love. It must be hard to live like that.

>>14134514
True Faith in Christ, don't settle for anything less

>>14134762
Most religions made their peace with evolution decades ago. IIRC only 14% of Christians deny evolution.

>>14134803
Well, I hope the flying spaghetti monster you believe in fulfills you. I prefer my God, though.

>>14134803
Never go full retard.

>>14134807
>>14134800
>>14134790
read the bible you retards, it denies evolution. most christians are heretics, then

>>14134814
>every single world in the bible has to be taken 100% literally, there is no room for interpretation whatsoever

Nice meme.

>>14134809
>Well, I hope the god you believe in fulfills you. I prefer the fact that I fucked your mother, in which I know through faith alone, which I cannot prove, though.
>>14134816
Not an argument. Prove your god, clown.

>>14134803
This retard just won't give up. Do you want the sociological-psychological answer as to why I have faith? Because I was raised Catholic and attended church as a kid.

>>14134762
>all these are real
Science fucking turns on it's head with every major discovery.
>things with more weight fall faster -> objects with more mass will fall faster than an object with less mass in a vacuum
>civilization definitely started in Europe -> wait, it was Africa the entire time
>washing hangs is bad -> washing hands is actually healthy and sanitary
>the atom is the smallest particle -> just kidding dude, it's quarks
If a religion changed it's doctrines as much as science did, then it wouldn't be viable.

>>14134814
Some of the church father's recognized the necessity of interpretation rather than a literal meaning. And the Catholic Church abandoned a literal reading of the OT centuries ago?

>>14134826
Ah, a brainwash victim. I apologize.
>>14134836
Look at this science denier. This is what religion does to you.

>>14134554
>Why do atheists still behave like Christians but a little more degenerate.
You guys pretend to be free yet still act like God is watching you.

You just described me.
I always tell myself that atheism is the right way but whenever i can sin my mind goes blank and i feel like God is in my head.

>>14134824
Read the Fermi paradox.

>>14134840
>being a cringy gaythiest on /lit/ in 2019

>>14134840
>Ah, a brainwash victim. I apologize.

>>14134840
I'm not denying science. I'm just saying unquestionable belief in science is just as bad as unquestionable belief in religion. You always need a healthy dose of skepticism.

>>14134845
>Fermi paradox
Done. Still doesn't prove your god.
>>14134855
>>14134861
Laughable that no one has even attempted to prove their god. Shows how retarded religious people are. Literal subhuman insectoid "people".

>>14134514
Pantheism

>>14134869
>PROVE YOUR GOD NOW
it's like a child kicking and screaming

post-existential monolatrism

>>14134840
>Look at this science denier.
Basically every idea in science has turned out to be wrong, historically speaking.
If you take that as an argument against science then it is on YOU for being retarded.

>>14134824
>Prove your god
You literally can not prove anything outside of mathematics.

Every single thing you do has to be bound to a leap of faith.

>>14134869
>Done. Still doesn't prove your god.
Are you retarded? The idea is that the theoretical chances of godlike entities existing is damn high.

>>14134885
You're irrational
>>14134900
This is most certainly proof of science. The fact that we know what is wrong at all is proof of science, as it shows a clear progression to the truth.
>>14134908
Expand upon that.

>>14134913
>muh rationality
https://medium.com/incerto/how-to-be-rational-about-rationality-432e96dd4d1a

>>14134913
>it shows a clear progression to the truth
Science isn't absolute truth, it's our current understanding of what's correct.

>>14134913
you don't deserve any further answers, redditor. stick to r/atheism.

>>14134922
Not even that. It's our current understanding of what's correct when it comes to mechanics in our physical world.

>>14134912
Yes, still not your god in specific.
>>14134919
You use rationality to debunk rationality, therefore proving rationality is rational.
>>14134922
The fact that there is correct and incorrect proves that there is truth.

>>14134929
>proves that there is truth
There is truth, but science is always moving the goal post, with no end in sight. You can't claim you've arrived at the truth when you don't even know how close or how far you are from it.

>>14134940
Prove your god

>>14134576
>heroically
Cringe.

>>14134929
LMAO. Taleb isn't attacking rationality or science. He's just attacking the New Atheist and secularists version of rationality. He's simply redefining it.

>>14134942
>kek got 'em. retarded bible thumper can't form a coherent argument and can't prove their god without resorting to some leap of faith.
Not this shit again.

>>14134913
>The fact that we know what is wrong at all is proof of science, as it shows a clear progression to the truth.
That was EXACTLY my point.

>Expand upon that.
What exactly do you know for ABSOLUTELY certain?
So certain that there could never be the tiniest bit of doubt about it.
Certainly nothing your senses tell you can be taken as certain, as they are easily manipulated, fooled or might just be the result of simulation.

The only thing you really do know for certain is that you exist, but deducing anything from that is basically impossible, so you are left with numerous leaps of faith to even be a functional human in every day Life.

>>14134942
It doesn't work like that.

>>14134942
Prove that 1+1=2.

>>14134607
Despair is exactly what Satan wants you to do. You truly deserve Hell if you give up now instead of praying. Read the six penitential psalms.

>>14134545
the Nag Hammadi gospels; the New Testament (especially the gospel of John) with a gnostic interpretation.

>>14134991
if your first response to a suicidal man is to threat him with hell, you deserve the cross, heathen

>>14135076
>suicidal
First day on 4chan?

>>14135080
'hero' would sound better ?

>>14135090
If every person who pondered suicide on this site was actually suicidal this side would be inhabited mostly by skeletons.

Why does religion try to divinely ordain ethical values from beliefs of theism? Separate from the institutional impacts, the jump from the existence of a god to specific doctrines seems pointless. If a divine presence created the universe, why is any action other than what immediately leads to personal happiness considered right? Sin and divine creation seem contradictory.

>>14135109
not my point

>>14134633
“Atheism” is typically defined in terms of “theism”. Theism, in turn, is best understood as a proposition—something that is either true or false. It is often defined as “the belief that God exists”, but here “belief” means “something believed”. It refers to the propositional content of belief, not to the attitude or psychological state of believing. This is why it makes sense to say that theism is true or false and to argue for or against theism. If, however, “atheism” is defined in terms of theism and theism is the proposition that God exists and not the psychological condition of believing that there is a God, then it follows that atheism is not the absence of the psychological condition of believing that God exists (more on this below). The “a-” in “atheism” must be understood as negation instead of absence, as “not” instead of “without”. Therefore, in philosophy at least, atheism should be construed as the proposition that God does not exist (or, more broadly, the proposition that there are no gods).
Source: SEP
read this you retarded tranny

>>14135112
>why is any action other than what immediately leads to personal happiness considered right
Because religious doctrine exists to keep societies stable. Societies full of lazy, self-serving, hedonistic assholes aren't stable.

>>14135076
Who am I to threaten another with Hell? It's entirely up to him if he wants to save himself. Sorry that I'm not a protestant who only tells others what they want to hear

>>14134531
Gnosticism is beyond a meme. There are no traditional gnostic communities. You are all larping without someone who is an actual spiritual successor of someone valid. This isn't even bringing up how the Greeks like Plotinus were against Gnosticism.

>>14135419
>There are no traditional gnostic communities
who are the Mandaeans
>Plotinus
A total faggot.

>>14134633
>There is no church.

https://firstchurchofatheism.com/

https://seattleatheist.church/

>>14134630
>Read a book
Oh baby, you're gonna feel so embarrassed when you learn what the Bible is.

>>14134613
It's not worth the energy to pick. I have other shit to do.

Really dont care if God exists or not

>>14134841
The primordial state of man is believing in God. Not believing takes effort.

>>14134613
It's not picking because you don't know the answer. Nobody is forcing you to have an opinion on everything, and having one without the required information is intellectually dishonest.

>>14134885
>it's like a child kicking and screaming
No dear. It’s like a parent telling their 20 y/o that Santa Claus isn’t real, again.

>>14134568
>Protestantism is atheism.
Now that's impressive retardation. I mean, way beyond retardation. It's, like, showing off.

>>14134598
God damn I hate fucking wannabe intellectuals like Taleb. Old ass expats from nowhere who adopt young people behavior as if that makes their nonsense any more profound. God damn it's all so fucking irritating. "hurr durr i block imbeciles" and then he gets praise from morons like you and thinks he won. God I hate it all.

>>14134514
Christianity, theh baptist sect that uses KJV for the English language. Bibles that were translated from the Textus Receptus for other languages.

Hear the gospel and decide to accept it not for yourself.

My sheep hear my voice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXMA4xOS5BY

>>14136682
what could be more important to you than saving your ass from potential eternal anguish

>>14134591
I'm an agnostic, but even I realise that you're approaching religion in completely the wrong manner if you're trying to prove/disprove it empirically

Not really religions, the Jungian landscapes and the path towards present moment where the illusion of self is shattered.

>>14134535
Does it matter whether the gods are external or internal? Does it make them less powerful?

>>14134514
Zen Buddhism. You cannot refute this.
>>14134542
What about atheistic religions though?

>>14138072
There is the vast universe and us.
Your first line claims to shatter self while the next promotes a powerful god who may be inside(?)
>Does it matter whether
Perspective on life needs changing, pragmatically speaking, so I think it would be better for us to instill this power in *ourselves*, if *self* is so illusionary

>>14138098
You trying to bring up the church of atheism or w/e? They're just trying to spread the word, the good news. Play the game the theists are. It isn't a religion, those are just clubs

>>14138117
>You trying to bring up the church of atheism
Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianis, Jainism.

>>14134514
chart should read:
>nihilism
>atheism
>theism
>agnosticism
>ietsism

>>14138128
Jainism is literally the only one of those that is atheistic, and it's not technically even atheistic in the modern sense; they just don't believe in a creator.

>>14138181
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontheistic_religion

>>14138117
I don't understand what are you trying to say. It reads like an argument and yet I fail to see any point. Note I am not a native english speaker.

>>14138187
Imagine believing anything from a Wikipedia article on an even slightly controversial topic.

>>14138193
Wikipedia is infallible.

>>14134630
Materialism refutes itself though. The existence of actual knowledge depends on your agency as a mind not beholden to the world. If your mind is the product of deterministic biological processes then your positions aren't dictated by reason, they're dictated by the same physics that all material things obey.

I don't really understand how any reasonable person can go from Descartes "cogito ergo sum" to declaring themself a metaphysical zombie because they're so dedicated to a metaphysical position that they'll deny even their own subjective experience of the world as a real phenomenon. It's stupid. You know yo exist, you know you have agency, your experience of the world is not an illusion so if any metaphysical worldview like materialism comes to the logical conclusion that your subjective phenomenal experience is false or illusory then you should be ruling that worldview out, not the one thing you know for a fact is real.

>>14138204
Really. If you know you exist and have agency, where is the you and the agency you are speaking of? Where is the seat, the I, the one who is pulling the strings? Throughout my entire life I thought there is the I, that thing behind the eyes above the breathing pattern, that is making decisions and the moment I looked for it there was nothing to be found. Everything is simply appearing. Where is the I in your post, the conscious creator of the next word and sentence?
How can your experience can not be an illusion if the brain is trying to make sense of everything? You don't see a thing, you see a function. There is more you cannot experience than you can experience. The wavelengths and soundwaves you perceive, the abstract concepts you carry all result from usefulness to a man throwing harpoon points to lions in subsaharan Africa. How can that be not illusory in principle? It is useful yes, and true and real to our subjective experiences, but still wrong in the objective existence of the world as it is.

>not being secular
>not simply embracing the absurd
>not practicing active nihilism

>>14138254
>Really. If you know you exist and have agency, where is the you and the agency you are speaking of? Where is the seat, the I, the one who is pulling the strings?
The mind. Every conscious decision I make, backed by my internal monologue. I think, therefore I am. I exist. My mind exists. The is the brute fact from which all other facts are discerned. It is the view from somewhere. Materialism is the view from nowhere.

>the moment I looked for it there was nothing to be found.
Is the NPC meme real? Either you have subjective phenomenal experience or you're an automaton.

>>14138269
This is how I thought before I began my meditation practice. I would say it is before and after kind of thing and the before is before a glimpse into the contents of the consciousness. I believe I was NPC before I realized that the I is only as good as a concept to describe my contents as in I am speaking to you. Beyond that I am in my head until I look for the I and then it disappears. There are just contents of the consciousness. The internal monologue is coming out of nothingness and dissipates into nothingness just like my favorite movie or book does, but there is never a decision. Just like anger and anxiety and joy, everything is merely appearing. And the moment I am not looking broadly (broadly means something beyond the word broadly) I indeed am just a slave to the internal monologue and emotions because I think I am it. And the moment I start noticing it's obvious any sense of control is an illusion, including the internal monologue.
This is very hard to describe to someone who doesn't meditate (and is also considered to be kind of a taboo in some circles) but know this. Research has proven beyond any doubt that the decision happens before the you knows about it. There are these interesting fMRI experiments where the researchers are able to predict your decision with 100% accuracy, note it down without you saying anything before you know you will do it. Another thing to note is that people like Zucc and all of the Sillicon Valley gigants to meditate because they realized the power of subject-object realization and meta-awareness. As long as one thinks he is the internal voice he will always be a slave, or in your words NPC. That is the irony of the NPC meme.

>>14138269
>>14138299
Also I forgot to add you do have subjective experience and are an automaton, they are not mutually exclusive.

Theism is a prerequisite for a capitalist society. The only way that capitalists get away with the exploitation is the faith that the working class put in their masters. And, this is why there's so many disgusting Christian bootlickers here.

>>14138299
Good post, but meditation is still pseud bullshit. You can become metaware about your inner dialogue without meditation. Meditation is merely a fixed action pattern that you use to trigger your introrespection. You can be aware of it anytime, and meditation is a crutch.

>>14134607
You need a steady, firm displeasure at your sins - you can't allow yourself to be surprised when you fail. You are a creature, don't forget it - move on with new determination, aware that you might yet fail again.

>>14138854
Meditation works. It's a practice that gives you glimpse into what's possible by training the brain to stop the default mode network and it's been proven to work and positively impact health (not just mental) by extensive research. Because of that and because of my own experience I fail to see the pseudo bullshit in it. I agree that one should not meditate only when he meditates but I believe one should meditate to learn to meditate without meditation.

>>14134607
I am you, but not failed in NNN, but don't mind it, you will fail a lot till you learn

Polytheism is the most correct religious belief

>>14134542
BEYTA

>>14134514
Space Taoism, though it's not really a religion but the evolutionary physics of experiential change, a technology.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Tao_of_Calculus/comments/9rpnrl/space_taoism_101

Fun fact: Most hardcore atheists of today will be, first ironically, later unironically worshiping the invisible hand of the market as a pagan deity.
Screencap this

Atheists are a bunch of never-achievers that are relieved by the idea that death is some great equalizer, past which their meaningless lives will matter as much as the world's greatest men.

So, >>14134611 this.