/lit/ - Literature

>>14104213
Based af. Truly one of the greatest men to walk this earth.
Also chomsky's views on him are stupid

>>14104213
Read State and Revolution

Lenin is a fucking legend

Fundamentally flawed top-down ideology that ruined 20th century socialism and doomed humanity
He should've listened to Rosa

>>14104213
Very BASED and very REDPILLED.

>>14104213
he was an evil jewish vampire, chomsky is delusional or lying

>>14104213
I think a very strong case could be made that Lenin was the worst person who ever lived. Certainly worse than Mao or Stalin.

>>14104431
>The Real Lenin: Traitor, Parasite, Failure
http://www.unz.com/akarlin/lenin/

>>14104438
Wew. What if the opposite were true?

>>14104431
People who think this have never read a single word that Lenin wrote.

>>14104486
Why would I care about what he wrote? His actions are what matter.

>>14104213
If you are mentally retarded perhaps.

>>14104213
he was pretty based. But not as based as stalin. Him executing the romanovs and their lapdogs was /lit/

bloodthirsty maniac manlet

>>14104213
One of my greatest desires is to desecrate his tomb and rend his corpse.

>>14104442
>I don't think a very weak case could be made that Lenin wasn't the best person who never lived. Uncertainly better than Mao or Stalin.
Are you retarded?

Led the first successful socialist revolution and paved the way for the liberation of billions from colonialism, imperialism and capitalism. His writings on revolutionary socialism and the organisation of the proletariat are still as valid as ever, if not more so.

I suspect of all the great Marxist revolutionaries, he's the most despised, for daring to overthrow the blood drenched Romanovs and inspiring all communist revolutions after him, providing the basis for the end of colonialism.

>>14104213
>Chomsky saying he was /pol/ af
idealists tend to hate pragmatists yes

>>14104318
>He should've listened to Rosa
yea the guy who was relatively successful should have listened to the bitch that wasn't

>>14104750
Yeah!
>russianizes central asia, the baltics, the caucasus etc.
Yeah!
>millions of people suffer
Yeah!

Stalin was richer than Nicholas II

>>14104766
>>russianizes central asia, the baltics, the caucasus etc.
The peoples of these countries all had their languages promoted and protected.
>>millions of people suffer
Yeah such a shame that the fascist invaders, White Guard counterrevolutionaries, sabotaging kulaks and monarchs got punished for their crimes.

>>14104213
Nazis learned alot from bolsheviks, so prety based.

>>14104213
Proto-fascist, his ideas were implemented by the far right and continue to be implemented by them, same as with Gramsci. Shift from Marx to Lenin showed the first fracture in Marxism where communists started to realize that the proles would never get anything similar to class consciousness and communism can only be implemented through millitary coups.

>>14104486
Tbh I only read his book on Empiricism and What should be done. The first one is so bad I would be surprised illitch had anything good to say even in another domain.

>>14104766
>russianizes central asia, the baltics, the caucasus etc.
That was Stalin, Lenin was pro-nations.

>>14104837
>>14104862
Fascists (not 'right wing' unless you define the meme term to mean fascism) are the bolchevism of the lower middle class instead of the lower class.
Both are based.

LARP going strong itt

>>14104213
He was antipolish, therfore he was evil.

>>14104318
Listened to her beg for mercy as she was justly raped and then beaten to death?

Slut got what was coming to her.

>>14104964
Lenin supported the independence of POland

le disruptor and le bringer of the future like le elon musk XD not a compliment to elon musk XD

He was a hardcore underground conspirator with a single goal in mind. How anyone can praise such an anti-humanist?

>>14105007
she wasn't raped

>>14105034
The catfish of the Rhine probably did rape her. Those things are nasty

>>14104213
>he was /pol/ as fuck

That made you interested in him? What does that even mean? That he was retarded?

What book of Lenin should I start with?

>>14105034
Hopefully not. Most women orgasm when raped, the idea of a leftist getting something nice before being executed seems unfair.

why did lenin own so many rolls-royce cars?

>>14105673
He was a fake natty commie

They would be of no use to Red Army, peasants, or workers. Therefore, to the Vladimir they'd gone.

>>14104318
Luxemburg was a harsher centralist than Lenin, and was infamous for purging her Polish party from discontent - which Lenin never did, even at the height of his anti-factionalism. Luxemburg only sided with the Mensheviks before 1905, the defining moment of both factions of the RSDLP, and ever after was staunchly on the side of the Bolsheviks. It also shouldnt be forgotten that the Mensheviks (the minorityists) were defenders of the intelligentsia against the majority (which the Bolsheviks, majorityists, took the opposite position - in the original 1903 split), so Luxemburg’s intellectualism places her closer to the caricature of Lenin than Lenin himself. The Mass Strike was written when Luxemburg and Lenin were literally living together and there is nothing in it that Lenin would have disagreed with; in fact its language and conceptual arrangement complements rather than contradicts Lenin’s WITBD. Luxemburg’s defense of formal parliamentary democracy against the dissolution of the Constituent Assembly was published without her permission and she called for its destruction, and in the conditions of Germany called for a similar liquidation of their respective parliamentary body. In either case, opposing either authority as representatives of the nation (as Lenin did as well) in favor of the authority of the workers’ councils is not a sign of un-democratic authoritarianism, and in fact could express its extreme opposite, which Luxemburg was criticizing as a possible tendency

Luxemburg as an anti-Leninist is anti-Communist mythologizing.

>>14105029
Lenin was neither a humanist nor an anti-humanist, but a Communist.

Contained within the bourgeois subject is its own self-negation. Without this negativity, as Hegel points out, there can be no subject for itself. Without the objective order of others, we cannot situate ourselves as individual subjects. If I cannot negate this alien objectivity into an objectivity for us, an object for the subject, and in doing so absolve the prior alienated subjecthood, there can be no free subject for myself. As such, humanism, by necessity, slides into anti-humanism, as the realization of “humanity” requires its own abolition. As Kant remarked, all public good has emerged from private evil, so that history towards freedom emerges from a charnel house of death and violence. There would be no enlightenment project and democratic republics without the horrors of colonialism.

What Communism attempts, is not to embrace civilization against barbarism, or barbarism against civilization; but to consciously recognize that the underlying antimonies of bourgeois modernity - including humanism and anti-humanist - as the premises of bourgeois civilization coming to contradiction, and confront and unfold these contradiction to their logical conclusions.

>>14106046
>Luxemburg as an anti-Leninist is anti-Communist mythologizing.

I've only ever heard Luxemburg being anti-Leninist coming from avowed communists.

>>14106623
>avowed
Anarchists remain as always in good company

Lenin is based, but don't believe a word out of that moron Chomsky's mouth on anything related to Marxism.

>>14104862
There was no shift you retard.

>>14105125
You should start with Marx. If you already have read Marx then read more.

>>14106160
Marx: "This communism, as fully developed naturalism, equals humanism, and as fully developed humanism equals naturalism".

I prefer linen.

>>14104213
you can literally feel his anger when u read his work and for that i respect the maf

Complete failure of ideology only taken seriously by 14 year old edgelordsboys and 19 year old 1 std dev below the mean IQ arts majors who don't want to work and have no idea what they want to do with their lives.

>>14104213
I´m just wondering when will Putin finally bury him. Say what you want, but he served his time and haunted the red square for almost a century. Now it´s ime he was buried next to his wife in Petrograd.

>>14104213
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>>14108090
/leftypol/ refugee discord tranny reddit tourist faggots go back
>le look i le replied to le everyone
>no u
theres your replies

>>14104318
Rosa was cheering the Bolsheviks and the russian revolution you brainlet.

>>14108070
Jesus, are you being paid by buzzword?

>>14108100
Fuck off, /leftypol/ is even more cancerous than you and your retard friends here.

>>14104862
this

>>14105134
Literally fake news. The real rate is 4-12%, though this may be underreported.

>>14108015
Marx characterized Communism as a movement that held within it a "humanistic" and "socialistic" impulse - a contradiction.
It should not be forgotten that Marx was not the first Communist, and in fact saw himself as self-conscious critic of the Communist movement.

From the text you quoted:
>The antithesis between lack of property and property, so long as it is not comprehended as the antithesis of labour and capital, still remains an indifferent antithesis, not grasped in its active connection, in its internal relation, not yet grasped as a contradiction. It can find expression in this first form even without the advanced development of private property (as in ancient [nations]) It does not yet appear as having been established by private property itself. But labour, the subjective essence of private property as exclusion of property, and capital, objective labour as exclusion of labour, constitute private property as its developed state of contradiction – hence a dynamic relationship driving towards resolution
Communism is the self-overcoming of the premises of bourgeois society in contradiction - vis a vis Lenin
>Above all we must avoid postulating “society” again as an abstraction vis-à-vis the individual. The individual is the social being. His manifestations of life – even if they may not appear in the direct form of communal manifestations of life carried out in association with others – are therefore an expression and confirmation of social life. Man’s individual and species-life are not different, however much – and this is inevitable – the mode of existence of the individual is a more particular or more general mode of the life of the species, or the life of the species is a more particular or more general individual life
Here Marx states the antimony between humanistic individualism and communitarian socialism as a contradiction that must be overcome, favoring neither
>Communism as the positive transcendence of private property as human self-estrangement, and therefore as the real appropriation of the human essence by and for man; communism therefore as the complete return of man to himself as a social (i.e., human) being – a return accomplished consciously and embracing the entire wealth of previous development. This communism, as fully developed naturalism, equals humanism, and as fully developed humanism equals naturalism; it is the genuine resolution of the conflict between man and nature and between man and man – the true resolution of the strife between existence and essence, between objectification and self-confirmation, between freedom and necessity, between the individual and the species. Communism is the riddle of history solved, and it knows itself to be this solution
Here is the full quote: Marx posits rather explicitly the realization of humanity through its supersession in nature - through its opposite
After Communism, these antimonies would simply be done away with, as in previous quote

>>14104213
Enlightened/benevolent dictatorship is the best form of government, left or right: Lenin, Mussolini (in the 1920s), Tito, Ataturk, etc.

>>14104318
>try to start a communist revolution
>die in the resulting fighting and get chucked in the river
Never understood why people lionise this retard. Thirsty betas probably.

>>14108579
Forgot based Salazar.

>>14108579
Lenin did not desire dictatorship, but saw that the fullest realization of democracy occurs through dictatorship - which would dissolve the -cracy of democracy into the direct administration of society for itself. The highest form of democracy is when the whole of society, lead by the proletariat as ruling class, forcibly dissolve all class distinctions.

The process of civilization - subsumption and rationalization - involves the most brutal of barbarism, as the formalization of the content of society breaks asunder all pre-existing social forms. Communism takes this process to the logical conclusion beyond, as the complete rationalization of society, the complete subsumption of social conflict into mediated civil conflict, would do away with the very need for the political state to mediate social relations into a civil society. Instead of society and state, there would be voluntary association in accordance to the development of humanity as a whole.

>>14108585
Luxemburg opposed the revolt, seeing it as premature - which it was, given the results. When it broke out, against her wishes, she actively participated in it, knowing that it would probably lead to her death.

Communist revolutionaries struggle for a better future with the knowledge that they will never see it themselves. History is a total process in which all participate, so our deaths come with the knowledge that our struggle for freedom will be inherited by the generations to come - may they redeem us if we fail! We all die eventually, why not voluntary go to the grave for the betterment of humanity?

>In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea;
>With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me,
>As He died to make men holy let us die to make men free!
>While God is marching on!

>>14104701
based

>>14104213
>/pol/ af
In some ways maybe.

>>14104701
If is your greatest desire, what's stopping you from doing it right now?

>>14108717
Patrolled

>>14104213
Lenin was the greatest revolutionary in human history, and should be a role model for all would be Communists seeking to make the world a better place.

This is not to say Lenin himself or the legacy he leaves behind are without fault. In fact, it would be a disservice not just to Lenin, but the whole history of humanity, to simply take Lenin at face value. Just as how Lenin saw himself in the tradition of the Populists, and saw the Neo-Populists, through their dogmatic adherence to the old doctrine, had forgotten its spirit, so that the true inheritors of this legacy would be the Marxist critics of Populism - and so it is with Lenin and "Lenin"-ism. For spirit of Lenin to live we must bury his reanimated corpse!

>Let us picture to ourselves a man ascending a very high, steep and hitherto unexplored mountain. Let us assume that he has overcome unprecedented difficulties and dangers and has succeeded in reaching a much higher point than any of his predecessors, but still has not reached the summit. He finds himself in a position where it is not only difficult and dangerous to proceed in the direction and along the path he has chosen, but positively impossible. He is forced to turn back, descend, seek another path, longer, perhaps, but one that will enable him to reach the summit. The descent from the height that no one before him has reached proves, perhaps, to be more dangerous and difficult for our imaginary traveller than the ascent—it is easier to slip; it is not so easy to choose a foothold; there is not that exhilaration that one feels in going upwards, straight to the goal, etc. One has to tie a rope round oneself, spend hours with all alpenstock to cut footholds or a projection to which the rope could be tied firmly; one has to move at a snail’s pace, and move downwards, descend, away from the goal; and one does not know where this extremely dangerous and painful descent will end, or whether there is a fairly safe detour by which one can ascend more boldly, more quickly and more directly to the summit.

Was as competent as Nicholas II was incompetent and loved the proletariat as much as Nicholas II loved his children

>>14106160
I was not arguing about which -ism is more correct definition of him. I was saying that a person who doesn't bother killing a lot of people for *noble political cause*, and outside of a battle field, is not a great example.

>>14108813
So this is the power of the true revolutionary spirit.

>>14104534
unabomber killing people needs context

>>14104862
>Proto-fascist
so antiquity was just proto-renaissance

>>14109121
What makes war between states so much more moral than a civil war? It’s still people dying in the slaughter bench of history. Arguably, it is an even more detriment to humanity, because war between states are more often than not just wars to redistribute the world’s resources amongst the wealthy, to the extreme detriment to those involved. At best, wars of conquest further perfect the state apparatus, such as WW2 using developed state machinery to lift the world out of the depression - albeit with the long-term expense of political democracy, which we have inherited in the postmodern totally administered society. But was the Holocaust really worth the welfare state?

Why shouldn’t that violence be directed to abolish political violence all together? The Social-Democrats betrayed the revolution, so we will never know what a world where socialism triumphed without any deformations. The Russian Revolution was the attempt to bring about a world order without want or war, where all of humanity could live in perfect freedom. Should we simply let death and desolation overtake us (remember, without the Bolsheviks, Russia civilization would have collapsed from war and famine, and, if not, the provisional government would have been replaced by an anti-semitic anti-democratic right-wing dictatorship) because we are afraid that to make things better, we will have to experience a period of hardship? Who’s blood is on who’s hands if we resign not just ourselves but the generations afterwards to meaningless deaths?

>>14109674
>>14104862
You might as well call Jacobins proto-Bourbons.

The Communists were trying to push history forward, taking up historical tendencies unfolding before their eyes, and taking them to their logical conclusion. Why is it so surprising that others adopted their means and methods?

Oh, and, the notion of the vanguard party as a party of intellectuals is a New Left myth. Lenin (and Kautsky) saw the Party, as the synthesis of bourgeois intellectuals with the working class, creating a stratum of educated workers.

>>14110068
>educated workers
Stop, it hurts

>>14110068
>The Communists were trying to push history forward, taking up historical tendencies unfolding before their eyes, and taking them to their logical conclusion.
Right, so that's why the economy got ruined and they were forced to reimplement market economics in order to stave off famine and try to get agrarian production at least on subsistence levels.

>>14110081
War Communism did not ruin Russia’s economy, it was an extreme measure to preserve Russian civilization at the face of complete and total collapse. The assumption was, that with relief from the West, the bloody Civil War would be the worst that humanity had to face in the coming years.

As this was not the case, the emergency measures, once they had served their purpose at laying the groundwork, were rescinded - but because conditions were not yet ready to go forward, as the revolution internationally had receded especially with the triumph of reaction in Germany, the Communists retreated backwards.

It’s not like the NEP was without problem, as it exacerbated the so-called scissors crisis until the Russian economy began to collapse, which spurred on a return to War Communism-styled policies in the haphazardly implemented forced collectivization. By this time, political culture in Russia had been so damaged from retreat, it was not the Communists who pushed history, but history that pushed the Communists - to the detriment of Communism, to which we bear witness.

>>14110073
A worker instilled with class consciousness, filled with purpose of his historical mission, and the awareness of how this is to be carried out, is not the same as a stratum of working class intellectuals. Though supplanting bourgeois intellectuals with proletarian intellectuals would be a step forward, the point is to subordinate all bourgeois elements (including the intelligentsia) to revolutionary working class leadership. Communism will abolish the distinction between manual and mental labour (as capitalism is already doing) anyways, but that division of labour will continue to exist, except in a form that would anticipate a world beyond - from an educated elite to an educated population.

>>14104213
Evil commie scum

>>14110073
What hurts? Only unemployed basement-dwelling faggots can be educated?

>>14110222
The thought of a commie going to blue collar workers and starting to cite Capital and 19th century linen production is just hilarious. Or how third world immigration undercutting their jobs is actually something they should support.

>>14110228
Why they talk about 19th century linen production? Why would they start to randomly cite Capital? You seem to be describing your own fantasy.
>Or how third world immigration undercutting their jobs is actually something they should support.
What? Which communists say that?

>>14110308
Why they talk about 19th century linen production?*

>>14110308
>>14110312
Why WOULD they talk about 19th century linen production?*
fuck I need to buy 4chan gold so that I'm able to edit my posts

>>14110228
It’s not so much intellectuals going over to the workers, but socialists organizing unions, and unions cohering beyond themselves into a political party. Again, the movement of the intellectuals to the masses is a New Left myth. The labor movement would not exist without the active participation of the Communists, but merely being in a union, or even organizing a union, doesn’t make you a Communist. What the Marxist wants is to connect the immediate demands of the economic struggle of the unions to a long-term strategy to overcome the wage-system itself. This requires that unions be subsumed under an independent labor party lead by working class radicals with a clear theoretical vision on what needs to be done. Without socialist literature to facilitate social-political practice, then the means become an end-in-itself, without an end beyond in sight. This is not to say that Marxist theory is “philosophy” (a la academic naval gazing), its “philosophy” is implicit in the literature, mediated through its political practice.

The problem with the Left today is that it lacks this political culture - mediated by the party - so that there is this divide between practice and theory, direct action and political action, reform and revolution, tactics and strategy, etc., that was not as irreconcilable as it was in Lenin’s time. What we have today is an assortment of disconnected academics and activists in parasitic relationship, immediate direct action without any proper political strategy to, long-term goals drawn from within short-term means, and so on, which obscure for us in the present what these contentions meant in the past.

>>14108717
Based.

>>14110228
daily reminder that capitalists were responsible for bringing in cheap third world labor
"commies" or lefties or sjws or whatever umbrella term you choose to use are for the bringing in of oppressed people's to live on welfare

>>14110350
>daily reminder that capitalists were responsible for bringing in cheap third world labor
No one is denying that. The issue is that commies now want to do the same thing even though it undermines workers and theyre basically doing the capitalists dirty work for them

>>14110360
Which commies?

>>14110588
Any commie that is pro-open borders and unrestricted immigration

>>14110592
Yes, which ones would that be?

>>14110350
Bullshit. Capitalism is partly to blame, but half the blame can also be laid on leftists, especially academics. Hardt and Negri's books talk about using third world immigration to overthrow the west.

>>14110598
pretty much every ancom, every leftcom, Maoists (only for the West, of course), the DSA, pretty much every antifa-member if their slogans are to believed, Trotskyists etc.
Really the only ones who dont buy into it are Marxist-Leninist tankies, but that's it.

>>14110068
Except all of human history is and has been trending towards hypercapitalistic exploitation of an uneducated slave class by a technocratic master class. The only way to conclude that history was trending to communism would be to cherry pick events like the French Revolution. A brave new world, despite being genre fiction, is a more accurate interpretation of historical materialism than the combined works of Marx, Lenin, and Trotsky.

>>14110615
Which leftcoms?
The other buzzwords you mentioned don't refer to communists.

>>14110634
Almost any leftcom since Bordiga denounced Stalin and the turn rightword of the communist international. They're the most vehemently opposed to any form of nationalism and borders.
Also those 'buzzwords' most certainly are commies, even though they dont fit your special definition of True™ communism

>>14110633
>Except all of human history is and has been trending towards hypercapitalistic exploitation of an uneducated slave class by a technocratic master class.
Huh looks like Marx was right. I wonder whatever happened to slave societies and feudal lords anyways

>>14110651
Can you quote any "leftcom since Bordiga" who advocates for "bringing in third world labor"?

>Also those 'buzzwords' most certainly are commies
Nope!

>even though they dont fit your special definition of True™ communism
Marx's regular definition of communism(public domain)*

>>14110667
Hardt and Negri do.

>>14110677
These are leftist academic philosophers. They're not "leftcoms" or communists.

>>14110685
WITNESS THE "NOT A REAL COMMUNIST" TRUE RED SCOTSMEN IN ACTION AS THE COMMIE RATFUCK SEALS HIS ARGUMENTS OFF FROM REFUTATION.

>>14110667
>Can you quote any "leftcom since Bordiga" who advocates for "bringing in third world labor"?
Damen, probably, for siding with Luxembourg over Lenin. Beyond that it's kinda hard because leftcommunism is pretty much dead after Bordiga and there are hardly any influential leftcoms left after him, and the remaining ones would denounce almost every Marxist/commie today as an opportunist who doesnt understand Marx. Most of them drifted away from left communism into anarchism anyway, or abandoned politics for the most part (Camatte).

>Nope!
Oh right, the semantics game. Communism was only achieved for 5 minutes in 1917 and after that it was hijacked by opportunists and any criticism of the numerous failures to implement can be faulted on either Lenin or Marx, especially Marx, since he is a prophet (pbuh). We can do this all day:
>That's not a true communist!
>Name one communist after WW2 in this specific area that did it or else your argument is invalid!
It's like punching slime. You're not going to be convinced anyway and will keep shifting the parameters to such a small area until you can claim a meaningless victory. Fuck off.

>>14110699
We're not witnessing me sealing my arguments off from refutation but you being unable to provide evidence for your claim about communists.
It may seem like it's my fault that you can't provide proper evidence, but in fact it's the world that makes it so that it's impossible to prove something that's false.

>>14110713
Did he really advocate for that? Well, he's dead anyway so that's irrelevant.

>Beyond that it's kinda hard
Well, it's not me who's claiming to know what leftcoms are saying.

>Communism was only achieved for 5 minutes in 1917
No, communism still exists.

>Name one communist after WW2 in this specific area that did it or else your argument is invalid!
No, I'm okay with any communist. I mean, they have to be alive now, but that's not my fault -- it's the anon who made the claim this specific: "commies NOW want to do the same thing". >>14110360

>>14104579
I fucking hate Stalin's spin on communism and loathe him for what he did with Lenin's legacy, but the killing of Romanovs is one of the most based things to ever happen.
Btw. some Romanovs survived. They mingled with kings, traveled the world, married their way back into influence, one of them is a banker. Imagine that shit, the workers rise up, a good portion of their family is killed by them, and these leeches continue doing what they've always done: living in luxury, exploiting the people, enjoying privileges solely because of their name.

>>14110068
>You might as well call Jacobins proto-Bourbons.
What

>>14110722
bro who are the real commies

The fact that every blood drenched reactionary, depraved fascist, shit for brains liberal, infantile leftcom and despondent anarchist in the west still hates Lenin tells you how good he was.

>>14111419
Exactly

>>14104213
Total Chomsky Honk.

>>14104213
King nigger of the russian chimpout.

>>14112870
>King nigger of the russian chimpout.

do any of you know what marxist-leninism actually means and how it differed from other interpretations of marx at that time?

>>14104255
chomksy has literally admitted he doesn't understand marxism well yet still hates marxists. not dissimilar to to the average /lit/ poster really

Every revolution is the same. We are a stupid animal that makes the same predictable mistakes over and over again.

>>14104750
>Led the first successful socialist revolution
You misspelt trotsky. If he hadnt taken the reins of the red guard the bolsheviks would have been fucked. Read "Técnica del Colpo di Stato" from Malaparte.

>>14114047
Based. Hating marxists is good.

>>14104213
Changed the world. Will forever be remembered in human history. Me? I wish.

>>14104750
>>14115939
You both are wrong. Hitler led the first successful socialist revolution.

>>14108651
She was a common Jewish criminal who wanted to steal. She got her skull bashed in in what was frankly an unjustly gently execution, as she blubbered for her life in her knees.

A good little death for a good little leftist.

>>14115939
>The I don't have an argument so read [x] pseud response