/lit/ - Literature

Philosophy is less useful as a collection of books, than as a way of being in the world, or perhaps, a way of taking the world seriously. The biggest problem with "we all take it as given" is that it's an doorway for cunning people to exploit us. So it's important to consider, not just what we take for granted, but why, and what other things we could take for granted instead.
Philosophers, or good philosophers at least, are people who take this attitude, and focus it on something they care about. You talk about Plato and forms, but more importantly, Plato (and Socrates) were interested in what it means to live "the good life." Metaphysics is part of that, but only part. For us, today, reading our predecessors is useful if it starts to push you into a philosophical mode (of thinking and living), but sure, it's useless if you just want to know "what the answer is" or what have you.

>>14046379
>>14046428
It's fun

>>14046428
>The biggest problem with "we all take it as given" is that it's an doorway for cunning people to exploit us.
I don't understand what you mean by this. Do you have any examples?

Would you not agree that flaws arise almost instantly in any form of thinking when you try to systematise human morality (in relation to what you said about Plato)? You can view the death of Socrates as him standing by his principles and being true to himself, being moral in upholding the Athenian constitution, but surely there are many arguments against his actions. Universal truth cannot exist when human behaviour and morality is so varied. I guess I am leaning on the nihilist side here, but I seriously do not not understand why even try.

>>14046484
Examples of how a careless attitude towards "the obvious" lets people exploit us? The most obvious example is propaganda itself, the rigorous study of how to exploit people's carelessness. Political economy likewise--isn't it strange how economics always seems to justify and benefit the powerful? But if you really want to understand why that is, if you want to (credibly) stop taking their self-serving hyper-rationalist worldview for granted, you have to go quite deep.
As for the view you're advancing, what I might call the naïve rejection of universal truth, is that at some point you have to account for all the things that make people believe in universal truth. For the most basic point, that people nearly universally agree about the identity of objects, without having to explicitly reach a consensus. Indeed, that we don't think about objects in terms of consensus, but that their identities are immediately apparent to us as soon as we look at them. What's your explanation for this?

>>14046379
>Is X a waste of time?
ALWAYS, FOR ANYTHING EVER
>?????
IT NEVER FUCKING MATTERS unless you're going to starve otherwise, or have other end goals in mind and X is actually a distraction to something you want even more. Otherwise do whatever the fuck you want, slave.

>>14046379
You are only able to articulate these things simply because they were worked out by a hundred faggots centuries ago and painstakingly processed into words children can digest

It has a lot to do with how secure people are with themselves and their relationship to their world. Certain people throughout time always seem to pop up that have such a seemingly irrational discomfort with accepting reality. They are the ones who have bequeathed the colorful vocabulary and language used to express such insecurity. The said language might make them seem intelligent and their work significant, but that is the fault of those who are easily impressed by verbose mental gymnastics. Then there are those who know about how some people are impressed by verbosity and long works, then use that knowledge to exploit those same people with works of their own crafted for the specific purpose of influencing. So that is what philosophy is -- a mixture of the above.

The philosophy that can be seen as a foundation for anyone feeling insecure, in my opinion, can be found in the single statement of René Descartes: "I think, therefore I am." Ponder it for like, a few seconds, and you'll realize it to be an objective truth. I'm dead serious. I used to read many books, and I can say from experience that it is all, as you suspected, mostly nonsense.

Accept reality as it is. That is all.

>>14046379
Waste of time opposed to what? Philosophy is the preparation for death.

>>14046379
Philosophy is related to how one conducts their own thinking and how they decide their actions. Also, there is much practical stuff gotten from philosophy. For instance, the idea of synonyms and antonyms Consider the scientific method. Political law is a philosophy. Psychology requires philosophy to be useful. Music often times has a philosophy behind it, such as the interpretation of the feeling it's trying to induce, or the setting it's designed to be played for.

>>14046379
>simple
>proof
>utility
oh no

>>14046529
>isn't it strange how economics always seems to justify and benefit the powerful?

>>14046379
Philosophy teaches you to think deeply about things are "obvious", "incredibly simple", "we take as a given", "needless", and "you already know". You can't have transormative ideas if everyone takes everything as obvious, especially when it's most likely not obvious at all. Philosophy won't give you superpowers and turn you into a megabrain genius who understands the nature of the Universe. In fact it'll probably do the opposite and confuse you even more. But it's good because people with solid convictions have knuckles for brains.

>>14046631
>modern computers build on the simpler machines of our fathers
>those machines were built on basic arithmetic, no need to revisit that
>but let's question the collective wisdom of 1,000 generations of humans who lived by simple rules that guided the existence of our species through daily natural calamity and untold existential misfortune, surely they got something wrong

Not all philosophers write in dialecticts.

>>14046688
Not that guy but if this some kind of misguided traditionalism I don't know what to say. The fact that contemporary "common wisdom" in many ways departs from ancient "common wisdom" should be antidote enough to this retardation. Beside, I can always appeal to antiquity: "the unexamined life is not worth living."

>>14046761
>The fact that contemporary "common wisdom" in many ways departs from ancient "common wisdom" should be antidote enough to this retardation
It's not antidote to anything, it's evidence that we've fucked up royally thinking in our generational hubris that there's anything new under the sun. And not wanting to leave life "unexamined" does not mean we can't build off of the examination already painstakingly carried out - at a very bloody cost mind you - by the trillions of humans who came before us for the very purpose of our not having to relearn those basic lessons.

You should be at least 27 before posting opinions on philosophy

>>14046796
I feel like only someone who hasn't read much philosophy would sacralise it to this extent. Re-examination is not an insult to past knowledge. If anything, blind obedience is. I don't know why you conflate disagreements with a refusal to build off those old examinations, when in fact they emerge from engaging with them. We wouldn't have half the philosophical legwork we do if they hadn't sprouted from intellectual difference of opinion.

>>14046803
Based and Plotinuspilled

>>14046474
why do you post this pic everywhere? i like it, but is this your way of being a crypto-namefag to get attention?

>>14046806
I suppose I get that, but what if we don't have as much at stake in AD 2019 as we did in, say, AD 19? Like when you see a warning to not run near the pool and you TOTALLY understand it and all because it makes theoretical sense and you can see the danger but you do it anyway because hey you're not that dumbo that inspires such rules and whoops and crack your skull?

>>14046803
truth

>>14046812
Who knows? It's a funny pic and it goes well with snarky replies.

>>14046474
Dr pepper drinking Godzilla would destroy pepsi doge

>>14046803
Unironically this. Maybe even 30.

>>14048379
It's a good image