/lit/ - Literature

>>14018879
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HE SAID POSTMODERNIST NEOMARXIST. HOW CAN HE COMBINE THOSE TWO???? KEK PHILOSOPHY PROVED THEY ARE INCOMPATIBLE, BECAUSE MARXISM IS A GRAND METANARRATIVE, POSTMODERNISTS HATE THAT

>M-MUH LOBSTER MAN TRIES TO JUSTIFY HIERARCHIES

>>14018879
He doesn't have a philosophy.
He just summed out previous works by ancient authors and church fathers, repackaged it, and sold it under his own brand with a sprinkiling of radical individualism.

>>14018879
Peterson has a philosophy?

>>14018891
He isn't even a radical individualist, he's pretty middle of the road.

>>14018891
>STOP MAKING ANCIENT PHILOSOPHY MORE ACCESSIBLE TO YOUNGER GENERATIONS

>>14018879
No, I don't see anything wrong with it.

Still I would like to have my girlfriend cuckold me with an old man with a big dick. This man would be like the old wiseman that Jung refers, so no humiliation or anything like that no. He would just proceed to fuck my girlfriend and please her in ways I couldn't and then leave her to me like we just done something good. That's what I get from this man philosophy.

I still unironically don't understand why he upsets people so much.

>>14018897
I didn't say that, that's a strawman.
>>14018896
He literally said it with his own word that radical individualism is the solution to our problems and that we must by all costs, defend the divine individual, lmao. I'm not going to dig up evidence, because I have better things to do, but he did say these things.

>>14018903
They've been psyopped. You can tell this because any praise of Peterson has to be prefaced with "I'm not even a fan of Peterson, but..." Power has decreed that Peterson is dumb and so are any of his followers, nowadays we may not understand it consciously but we all pick up on the broadcasts.

>>14018911
And? It doesn't matter what he claims to be he still isn't a radical, he isn't even at Molly levels of individualism.

>>14018919
>it doesn't matter what Peterson says, but I have to defend him
What could be the intention behind the deeds of this poster I wonder...

he built his "celebrity" on perhaps the worst read of derrida ever, along with tons of other twitter crypto-conservatives that accused derrida and foucault of being responsible for some kind of political nihilism. he does not understand derrida at all yet continues, to this day, to say that derrida is responsible for the emptying of linguistic meaning. it's absolutely fucking absurd and about as clear proof as possible that jordan peterson does not understand philosophy or cannot read difficult texts.

>>14018879
>Do you have any honest gripes against this man's philosophy?

Yes. Namely that it doesn't exist. He's just another self help guru that cashes in on criticizing totalitarian regimes and radical social liberals (aka misguided college students) as if it's some profound insight. Nothing against self help or the psychology / neurology / physiology 101 stuff that he incorporates, but anything on top of that is of very limited value.

And apparently he leads to brilliant debaters (most likely underage zoomers that came here during the election) such as:

>>14018885
>>14018888
>>14018897
>>14018899


Now stop spamming this shit and read a book.

>>14018943
Harold Bloom blames Foucault for the resentment school

>>14018950
Congratulations on having the same opinion as everyone on /lit/. You truly are a genius.

>This thread brought to you by Koch Industries

>>14018959
>implying that being unique means that you're right

>>14018970
Didn't imply that, sweaty. If you don't see that Peterson is used by midwit pseuds to feel better about themselves, well... you might not be as smart as you think

>>14018959
Clearly not everyone on /lit/ has the same opinion. We wouldn't be having these shitty threads if that were the case. Besides, with the amount of retarded contrarianism on here at every given moment I'm glad to be against contrarianism for once, even if that makes me double contrarian.

>>14018976
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh this idiot can't tell bait apart from praise. Besides OP was neutral..

>>14018976
The real reason we have these threads every day is because they get (You)s from dumbfuck pseuds like you desperate to be validated in being smarter/better-read than a public intellectual. You are pathetic

>>14018879
His actions are the best refutations of his own philosophy. He says the best way to improve society it to focus on improving yourself, but his big shtick was improving society by proselytizing his credo from the position of charismatic authority.

>>14018879
It was developed under the influence of Klonopin.

He literally babbles postmodern nonsense.

He is an altright pipeline.

He shills for the Koch Brothers as part of being said pipeline.

>>14018879
He's just giving plebs talking points to become preachy christcucks.

>>14018997
babbles postmodern nonsense:
>Procedural knowledge, generated in the course of heroic behavior, is not organized and integrated within the group and the individual as a consequence of simple accumulation. Procedure “a,” appropriate in situation one, and procedure “b,” appropriate in situation two, may clash in mutual violent opposition in situation three. Under such circumstances intrapsychic or interpersonal conflict necessarily emerges. When such antagonism arises, moral revaluation becomes necessary. As a consequence of such revaluation, behavioral options are brutally rank-ordered, or, less frequently, entire moral systems are devastated, reorganized and replaced. This organization and reorganization occurs as a consequence of “war,” in its concrete, abstract, intrapsychic, and interpersonal variants. In the most basic case, an individual is rendered subject to an intolerable conflict, as a consequence of the perceived (affective) incompatibility of two or more apprehended outcomes of a given behavioral procedure. In the purely intrapsychic sphere, such conflict often emerges when attainment of what is desired presently necessarily interferes with attainment of what is desired (or avoidance of what is feared) in the future. Permanent satisfactory resolution of such conflict (between temptation and “moral purity,” for example) requires the construction of an abstract moral system, powerful enough to allow what an occurrence signifies for the future to govern reaction to what it signifies now. Even that construction, however, is necessarily incomplete when considered only as an “intrapsychic” phenomena. The individual, once capable of coherently integrating competing motivational demands in the private sphere, nonetheless remains destined for conflict with the other, in the course of the inevitable transformations of personal experience. This means that the person who has come to terms with him- or herself—at least in principle—is still subject to the affective dysregulation inevitably produced by interpersonal interaction. It is also the case that such subjugation is actually indicative of insufficient “intrapsychic” organization, as many basic “needs” can only be satisfied through the cooperation of others.
You CANNOT tell me that makes sense.

>>14018997
>Koch brothers-alt-right
The left's very own grand conspiracy theory.

>>14019003
These are the sort of illustrations that accompany it

>>14018990
>merely pretending to be retarded

>>14018993
Yep, all public intellectuals are objectively superior to everyone else.

>>14018973
>Didn't imply that
Except you totally did. Liar.
>>14018995
This
>>14018997
>He is an altright pipeline.
lol, I wish

>>14019004
when I'm done with the mans graphs I will explain it to you
>>14019005

>>14019012

>>14019019

>>14018879
The insidiousness of Jordan Peterson is that he simultaneously reduces timeless wisdom to self-help jargon and common sense advice while also affirming the righteousness and desirability of modernity. All of the problems that Peterson tackles are themselves just various manifestations of modernity itself, but nothing he talks or writes delves into this larger problem itself or how to deal with it. To the contrary, he takes religious texts that contain profound wisdom and teachings passed down through the ages and uses them as corporate bug-man self-help advice for kids who weren't raised properly. Peterson low-key pushes a mythos that western society in modernity is fundamentally just and a good thing and that aside from some irrational, stupid and greedy people that you have to deal with that everything is okay in principle.

This couldn't be more wrong. Since the emergence of civilization most of the them were united by religious traditions teaching metaphysical knowledge. All the problems of the western mentality and society stem from the loss of this. Christ, the Neoplatonists and to some extent the Hermetics and certain Greek mystery cults all had it too but the Church eventually became an encrusted coffin of doctrine with no accompanying realizations to be had hence why it failed to prevent modernity from arising in the west. Without being connected to any higher understanding in any significant amount among it's intellectual elite, western society has ever since the renaissance has in free fall accompanied by materialism, nihilism, scientism and various other forms of spiritual and cultural degeneration. Peterson affirms all this as good by buying into the faulty idea of the linear progression of civilization and humanity and by shilling it to his unaware fans.

Did you ever figure out why Peterson never seriously delves into eastern thought aside from a few boomer references to Buddhism and Confucius? It's because it totally destroys his worldview and offers completely different solutions to the ideas he address. Why did one of the largest and most impressive bodies of spiritual literature ever emerge out of society with a caste system? Because they are the right way to base a society. Most of the societal problems he address wouldn't even arise in a traditional eastern civilization pre-modernity but just reflect the state of the modern west. It's bad enough that he does all of this already but then he takes one of the few sources of timeless wisdom that are tradition in the west and reduces it to a source of bland common-sense life advice instead of a window to transcendental truths where all problems are resolved.

>>14019026

>>14019004
What?
Liberals, right-liberals, promote and even named the “alt-right” as a way to counter the growing anti-capitalists. Haven’t you heard of Occupy Wall Street?

>>14019007
>>14019009
>Yep, all public intellectuals are objectively superior to everyone else.
>he still can't get what is being implied

This is the brain quality of self-aggrandizing anti-petersonians. Kill yourselves

>>14018899
What the fuck

>>14019029
>caste system
>all problems are resolved

>>14019036
>hurr everyone who disagrees with Peterson is a pseud looking for validation

Excellent bait. Now kys sweaty.

>>14019033
i bet you reek of cooked ham and stale car air freshener

>>14019004
Okay now that that's out of the way lets this show on the road.

Peterson first came to wider public attention through Rebel Media.
Rebel Media was founded by Ezra Levant.
In college Levant was a Koch Foundation Summer Fellow and attended various Institute for Humane Studies and Liberty Fund events. Both Koch organizations. He did his internship at the Charles G. Koch Foundation and then worked at the Koch funded Fraser Institute, their primary think tank in Canada. It has received funding from the Middle East Forum, which the Kochs fund through Donors Capital Fund. And has produced anti-Muslim attack ads with them featuring far-right personalities.
Aside from Peterson it was also a platform for Lauren Southern, Gavin McInnes, and Faith Goldy.

Peterson gives lectures to the Heritage Foundation and Manhattan Institute, both funded by the Kochs, but rightwing think tanks deeply involved in the 'culture wars', pushing deregulation, tax cuts for the rich, etc.

On his twitter feed he cites the Institute for Humane Studies, which you will recall Ezra Levant was involved with early in his career - Charles Koch has been the chairman of the board of since the early 1970s and donated over thirty-four million dollars to it between just 2005-2017 alone and it is housed on the grounds of the George Mason University which the Kochs donate enormously to and have had control over its faculty hiring and curriculum (despite being a public college); as well as another group called HumanProgress - a project of the Cato Institute, which Charles Koch is the co-founder of and primary source of its funding.

He attends TPUSA events, TPUSA receives funding from four different groups funded by Koch donations: Reason Foundation, Generation Opportunity Institute, The Foundation for Individual Rights in Education, The Foundation for Economic Education. Reason and Generation Opportunity are also Koch founded as well just like Cato.

>>14019084

>>14019036
Those two posts are from different people you retard lol.

>>14019088
Ben Shapiro and Dave Rubin also attended this shindig, both also Koch linked.

>>14019068
>>hurr everyone who disagrees with Peterson is a pseud looking for validation

This is the third time you got the implication wrong. Are you literally mentally disabled?

>>14019093
So the Kochs fund 4 groups, 2 of them they founded, that funds TPUSA that encourages a lot of racist extremism
And helps to sponsor rightwing speakers at colleges all of whom are also in the Koch sphere
And they're all pushing the Koch agenda

>>14019075
So you know what I’m saying is true and you’re just offended?

>>14019029
>Why did one of the largest and most impressive bodies of spiritual literature ever emerge out of society with a caste system? Because they are the right way to base a society.
Says the people that are at the top of the caste.
Like the corporate beasts that Peterson shills for.
You read up on the Koch ideas, on how they run their business with "market based management", and yeah they'd love a caste system.

>>14019089
>he said "he" instead of "they" HAHAHAH
Retard. Use your autismbrain to substitute if it bothers you much.

>>14019003
It does? Is this a troll? Are you retarded?


>>14019005
>>14019012
>>14019019
>>14019026

Those graphs illustrates severals differents passages in MoM and are quite simple to understand once you've read the book.

ALL OF YOU HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD THE SIGNIFICANCE OF PETERSON, ONLY I HAVE UNDERSTOOD HIM. HE IS A MAD BLACK DELEUZEAN OUTSIDER SORCERER BINDING PACKS OF YOUNG MEN WITH INSANE NOMAD THOUGHT. PITIFUL LEFTIST "ACADEMICS" AND "INTELLECTUALS" ARE INCAPABLE OF TRULY GRASPING DELEUZE AND GUATARRI, THE PACK, THE SORCERER, THE CONTAGION, THE MADNESS. IT IS OUTSIDE THOUGHT TO THEM. ONLY THE IRRATIONAL, THE DANGEROUS, AND THOSE LIVING IN CAVES CAN TRULY UNDERSTAND.

NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS NOW, THE SPINOZIST CONTAGION OF THE PROPHET PETERSON HAS BEEN CREATED AND SPREAD. THE SYMBIOSIS IS DONE. THE SCAFFOLDING HAS BEEN COMPLETE. PETERSON HAS FINALLY UNVEILED HIMSELF AS A MENTALLY BROKEN NIETZSCHEAN READY FOR REBIRTH IN LINE WITH THE MAD TIGER GOD DIONYSUS. BUT THE COMIC MASK HAS FALLEN OFF IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DRAMA. THE WHEELS ARE IN MOTION, AND A LINE OF FLIGHT HAS BEEN TAKEN.

DO YOU SEE? HE HAS FOOLED YOU ALL WITH HIS APOLLONIAN-HERMETIC GAMES. BUT IT WAS THERE ALL ALONG WITH THE DIAGRAMMATIC-MYTHOPOETIC THOUGHT AND THE DRUG TAKING. PETERSON IS A DELEUZEAN-NIETZSCHEAN. HE WILL BE RE-BORN IN HIS NEW CHOSEN FORM -- DIONYSUS -- AND I AM THE BIG DICKED SATYR LEADING THE PROCESSION WITH THIS POST.

>>14019004
So there are 6 Koch connections listed here>>14019084 - how is that for "grand conspiracy theory"?
I'm not saying he is taking his marching orders from Wichita, but clearly the network is very receptive to and wants to promote his malarkey and I would argue interested in the effect it has on young people and using it to capture and guide them.

>>14018879
He degenerates Jung's Aryan and mystic Analytical Psychology into modernly scientific Jewish individualism. Jung literally wrote on race memory and the Aryan archetype, a difference of (and inferiority of) psyche between the Aryan and Jew, Hitler as the embodiment of the German race, the hierarchical nature of existence and so forth. Peterson rejects all of this in stead of "muh individual". And on top of all that he just says a bunch of badly put together words as an answer to simple questions. A hypocrite with ulterior motives. A pseud but a pseud that has done more good in this world than none still.

Jung's archetypes were not just simply a high development of instinct(and should not be understood as such) even if this is the easiest way to explain them to most. The Archetypes are impressions of temporality, they are both the structure and content of the psyche, not mere functions. And the true ideal of the archetypes can only be known in the form of the highest complexity itself hence oft their depiction of man himself; yet entirely of something other.

>>14019115
>N-NO STOP IT HE MAKES SENSE I SWEAR HE ISN'T A POSTMODERNIST

>>14019127
These """connections""" are even more random and arbitrary than any pol infograph on the jews. How retarded can you be?

>>14018879
My biggest gripe is that he said white people should be happy to have Jews disproportionately in power over us because they have a higher average IQ and we'll be better off with the "best people" in charge".

Otherwise, it's individualist, anti-racist, philo-semitic, and he seems to avoid talking about European paganism while promoting Egyptian paganism because it contributed to Christianity more. He's got a xenophilic, multiculturalist tendency and he's an honorary member of some Indian tribe and collects ethnic art from either Indians or Africans if I remember. He's a bit of an old-school feminist. He speaks against Marxism a little too much for someone who's only read The Communist Manifesto as well, but he drums up a lot of support against it, so it's fine with me if he talks shit on it.

Despite all those criticisms I think he's doing far more good than bad. He's best when he's talking about things other than politics though.
>>14019033
>Alt-right
>Capitalist
>>14019047
Basde sysdem :DDD:D:DDD

>>14019003
>>14019005
>>14019012
>>14019019
>>14019026
>>14019031
These are all quite interesting and make perfect sense to me (haven't read anything he has written but am familiar with Jung) however what his main problem is (here where he actually remains respectable), is the over abstraction into a sort of in-directed expansiveness. Quite Jewish really. And this is all as far as the areas he is correct, in the areas (and there are a few) that his writing and graphs (in this type) are incorrect I will ignore for they serve no purpose to be mentioned. The parts which contain truth however serve only really as a mental organisation of various and general ideas and functions of man - anxiety/war etc. This organisation is fine and actually quite entertaining and enlightening the problem itself (and again I stress this is only so far as the truthful contents) is the lack of genuine directed-ness. It doesn't quite lead one anywhere, an interesting read and an affirmation of certain key and the keys to mans fundamental existence however still lacking in its own property.

I suppose what it really exists as is the organisation of Jung's thought into a diagram. I am this anon btw:>>14019131

>>14018879
He doesn't have a philosophy.

>>14018879
His method very much relies on the audience fearing and hating the leftist enemy, having nightmares about gulags, etc. while in reality the greatest problem in America is the lack of communication between the left and right (like in a lobotomy).
His logic is very often flawed, and teenagers who learn bad reasoning from him see themselves of knights of science and reason, while being just as emotionally triggered as the worst of the left.
In conclusion, he is weak af.

>>14019097
The implication that I should just ignore another shit thread in a board that's now nothing but shit threads is not even worth addressing.

>>14019255
>The implication that I should just ignore another shit thread in a board
Wrong again. Are you mentally disabled?

>>14019259
Sorry that I didn't understand the profound esoteric wisdom of:

>The real reason we have these threads every day is because they get (You)s from dumbfuck pseuds like you desperate to be validated in being smarter/better-read than a public intellectual. You are pathetic

Perhaps you could enlighten us oh mighty occultist grandmaster?

>>14019112
the people at the bottom had better and more fulfilling lives than the vast majority of wage slaves today, also the people at the bottom are only there because they deserve to be there in accordance with their actions in their past life

>>14019277
You're clearly not ready for the truth.

>>14019132
What part of it do you not understand? I could explain if you want.

Can I be a postmodernist but also a crypto-nazi?

>>14019156
>taking money from groups all funded by the same guy is just silly """connections""" even worse than /pol/s jews

>>14019367
yes, see Heideggar for an example

>>14019367
All real postmodernists are crypto-nazis. See Bataille.

>>14019285
>the people at the bottom had better and more fulfilling lives
>the people toiling away for us and doing all the work that I benefit from prefer it this way

>>14019285
>also the people at the bottom are only there because they deserve to be there in accordance with their actions in their past life
>its your fault you're poor

>>14019127
>I'm not saying he is taking his marching orders from Wichita
>I'm not saying I'm right but I'm clearly right

get fucked.

>>14018930
If you’re implying (((this))) bullshit you’re fucking annoying

>>14019387
>>14019388
why is the alt-right then so up in arms about muh postmodernists?

>>14019413
>Bataille
Are you really this dumb?

>>14019413
You mean the alt-lite, sweaty? Oh what, honey? You fell for the media-backed narrative that alt-right = Peterson, Harris, Joe Rogan, Weinstein? Ohh sweaty...

>>14019489
No, I mean the alt-right as in almost all poltards, """conservative""" christcucks, run off the mill twitter white nationalists, etc.

>>14018879
No. I like his work. But asseting he has a "philosophy" in the sense that is usually defined on this board is wrong. He has a way of 'informing action' as well as theory of 'why this action is the Good'. No more, no less. His "philosophical" theory as derived from Maps of Meaning is more akin to a scientifically grounded virtue ethics than any metaphysical assertion.
Also, as a word of personal advice, ignore most posters claiming he's a 'charlatan' or 'pseud'. These posters only seem to decry him because they do not properly understand his work. (a common criticism of your ideological enemy, I know, but in this case I feel it is justified as I will explain) As long as they present any actual refutation of his work that is not emotionally grounded, or based on this board's "mainstream opinion" of JBP without further critical thinking, though, do feel free to denounce his work.
I tend to see a lot of this, people posting intellectually void things, only to respond to proper arguments or replies posed against their baseless assertions with "seethe", "cope", or the like. This, I feel, runs contrary to what this board could be, if we just drop the tribal un-nuanced feud that usually colors the posts on here.
Shitposting is fine and all, but I know for a fact a lot of you people are intelligent enough to say something of worth, and I urge you to do so, not for this board's, or anyone else's sake, but for your own intellectual purity's sake. A common reply when faced with this suggested line of action is "Why would I?", but then again, consider: "Why would you refuse to? Why would you not?"

>>14019003
>>14019005
>Taking things out of context
Watch merely one (1) of his youtube lectures and this would make sense to you. I've seen this quote reposted many times and it's thorougly explained, though even more lucidly in his video lectures. Even if you are in opposition to his claim here, you would be able to understand it unless you don't have the intellectual capacity to. Which isn't much, I promise you.

>>14019036
Very based and cool

>>14019104
This is your brain on twitter