/lit/ - Literature

No

Former Muslim here. No it isn't. I reread it as a non-Muslim and it's awful for many reasons. The Bible has a few interesting tales, metaphors, analogies, and is genuinely readable (even though I'm not a Christian). The Quran, on the other hand, is repetitive - every other paragraph is about how Allah is going to punish you if you don't believe - and devoid of any interesting or philosophical content. It's one giant horror story intended to scare children into being faithful (I mean, it works).

The only benefit of reading it is that you ever argue with a Muslim (I would recommend you didn't since you'd be wasting your time) you can quote specific parts and watch them try to rationalise clearly terrible ideas.

>>13979488
Not in chronological order, complete lack of historical understanding, no more poetic than my granny’s sharts, and not even one tidbit of wisdom to make up for it. It’s a propaganda piece written by a warlord.

>>13979509
Could you list some of those terrible parts, if you remember any then?

>>13979509
What language did you read it in? And you do realize the Quran isn't a book, as in it wasn't meant to be written down, it was a chant, designed to be remembered in its entirety by its followers. It was meant to be poetic, the repetition a by-product of this. Also, the Quran's original purpose was meant to reinstate the previous scriptures (The Bible, The Torah) so it makes sense that those should be prior reading before reading the Quran. The Quran is more concise (Being a lot shorter) of what is lawful and unlawful.

>>13979520
Parts on Jihad.

>>13979595
A bit weird telling a Muslim the Quran is meant to be chanted - Islam requires you to chant, from memory, the Quran (or least enough verses) so that prayers can be performed... And this has to be done in Arabic. By the time a practising Muslim turns 20 he's memorised large portions of it. I myself know about a quarter of it by heart.

And yes most Muslims actually use Hadiths as practical guidance.

>>13979595
You seem quite knowledgable, could you explain why do many verses seem out of place within surrounding text? like one minute it's talking about comets being created from ejaculated fluid then suddenly without pause it starts describing a magic tree in heaven.

>>13979488
No

>>13979673
Quote some verses and i'll see, i have a Quran next to me right here. And if you are the same guy who I originally replied to, i have to agree with the fact that in English, and in written form the Quran is quite repetitive. But it's like reading translated poetry, it just loses all the flavor.

Take a look at this scholarly
English rendering and see for yourself


https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.224756/page/n13

Reading group if you are interested

https://discord.gg/WEjnKr2

>>13979648
I was saying the Quran in itself, in its entirety is a chant. It wasn't necessarily meant designed for it to be written.

>>13979648
Isn't there a verse that says that you shouldn't spread Islam by the sword though?

>>13979736
It says you shouldn't start wars and shouldn't compel. Although when Rome (Byzantium) went to war with the Muslims the Qur'an included a declaration of war on Christians and said to subjugate them. However Christians who didn't take up arms against us were given this treaty

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtiname_of_Muhammad

>>13979708
Then we're not in disagreement. OP asked if it was worth reading, and I said no. You're also saying it wasn't made for reading.

>>13979911
It converted me to Islam personally

>>13979911
Except i wasn't addressing OP's question, i was addressing the anon that was saying it's repetitive, my reason for that it that i was meant to be a poetic chant.

>>13979488
Absolutely. If nothing else, as others have said they may have found it repetitive or incorporating prior texts (which of course served a purpose as part of the pantheon), what Islam and the Qur'an has to offer, if interpreted properly, is a wholly unique and pure form of the monotheistic concept. It's indescribable.

The language of Arabic is something I had to learn, and though I'm not very good at it, a striking impression of it is that it is a very direct, apparent language, almost intrinsically laconic and truthful. It helps makes it a relatively easy religion to follow in principle, and with it being the devout word of God, it's hard to mince words. It's a sort of relative orthodoxy that makes for refreshing and peaceful practice. I would say that's a defining characteristic for the religion, where Christianity emphasises very respectable principles of sacrifice, Islam is all about peaceful submission, to the Truth that sets you free.

So how can something so straightforward and so apparently passive in it's asking of you have more to offer. I struggled with this fact, for quite some time. You have to believe me when I tell you my life changed as I truly grasped the spiritual nature of the Islamic gnosis. It's again hard to put concisely into words, but I encourage you to read some texts about the metaphysical aspects of the religion. But in essence, what I can tell you is that the truth Islam has to offer is one that is sublimely unquantifiable, and that characteristic makes it truly all encompassing. You see it everywhere, in everything. I hope you seek to find it, and find it as rewarding as it is to me.

>>13979520
Al-Ahzab 49-52

When I was an edgy teenager, I would bully random muslim people online with that one. Good times.

>>13979509
>former muslim
no such thing.

>>13979488
>admonishment: the book
absolutely dry as a desert fart

>>13979509
>former muslim
correction: liberal who couldn't twist islam to be what they wanted it to be

>>13982221
Blessed post, salam

Former Muslim here, too. DON'T waste your fucking time on this mound of crap. You'll pretty much realize that every single member of Islam is full of shit. My parents don't talk to me anymore because of the personal relationship I forged with God while learning about law and Christianity. There's a lot of Christianity in American law, and it's somewhat useful to learn about Christian traditions in the pursuit of study. Both of my parents went crazy when I told them I wanted to study another religion. Not convert, though I did later, but just study. My mother even told me that I don't believe in the oneness of God because I chose to do this. Which I never said. Islam to Muslims is a one way road, you're either with them totally or not a member at all. They can't tolerate a single difference in opinion because they are literally not mentally capable of rationalizing their religion in any part. On its face value, if you read the Qu'ran, you'll learn the Prophet Muhammad was a murdering rapist warlord demon worshiper. He even died according to the rules of the death of a False Prophet. There's a lot to learn from the Qu'ran, for sure, but make sure you do the opposite of everything that it says.

>>13982692
>There's a lot of Christianity in American law
Boomer

>They can't tolerate a single difference in opinion because they are literally not mentally capable of rationalizing their religion in any part.

What. Athari, Ashari and Maturidi are all very different creeds, and there are four madhabs,five if you count Dhahiri

Every time I run into one of you lying murtads I become more and more reassured that death for apostasy makes sense.

"Death for apostasy?" You still believe in that?

>>13982732
"Yes"

You aren't going to last long with that belief. I will pray for you. Hope that I don't find you first.

>>13982759
The Pope had a friendly dialogue who Ahmed el-Tayeb, an extremely anti sectarian shaykh...who also issued a fatwa saying death is the punishment for apostasy

>>13982692
Why is it that literally every "ex-muslim" that shows up in discussions about Islam has to post some whiny drivel about how their parents didn't love them enough with some edgy highschooler tier analysis of the Quran sprinkled up top for seasoning. It contributes nothing and it's just attention whoring desu.

It's not like the bible which is pretty much just a collection of stories, more like a guidebook on how a society and people should act, if you're into that then sure.

>>13979509
Wish I had a girl as obsessed with me as ex Muslims are with their former religion

>>13982720
based

>>13983870
It's really weird. Most athiests or agnostics just move on but these guys make a whole new identity out of it.

>>13983889
Ex-Mormons are just as bad.

>>13979509
So this is the Islamic equivalent of a fedora tipper

>Consider the Koran, for example; this wretched book was sufficient to start a world-religion, to satisfy the metaphysical needs of countless millions for twelve hundred years, to become the basis of their morality and of a remarkable contempt for death, and also to inspire them to bloody wars and the most extensive conquests. Much may be lost in translation, but I have not been able to discover in it one single idea of value.

>>13984233
some useful Qur'anic advice for anyone who takes Schopenhauer seriously

>>13981458
I'm starting to get convinced that Muslims believe in some sort of once-saved-always-saved akin to what (Calvinistic) evangelical Christians believe. Even though the Christian reaction to apostasy is almost the opposite.

>>13979488
no

Its basically:
Follow dogs rules or endure horrible punishments in the afterlife t. Mohammed

Edgy ex-muslims aside, of course it's interesting. Muslim or not, most can agree that it is extremely well written, with each word being considered carefully. For example, if a word has a parallel, then it and it's pair will appear the same amount of times.

>belief- 25 times/disbelief -25 times
>benefit-9/harm 9
>man/woman- 25
>Allah loves-17 times/Allah loves not 17 times

The quran is a very carefully written book, but unfortunately, you won't be able to appreciate it unless you know Arabic and the historical context of each Surah.

Wouldn't hurt to read it in english though, what's the harm in not being ignorant.

>>13979509
>>13982692

You're a testament to your falsehood. You really do behave like a wretched people.

>>13984317
That is an incredibly juvenile literary device, and the fact that you would use it as evidence for the Quran being "extremely well written" is both laughable and pathetically desperate.

>>13979488
Yes, especially with a good commentary or footnotes. If you are interested in religions at all, it will be a good read. Supplement it with some sufi texts as well for a fun time.

>>13982221
>>13982798
>>13983903
>>13984324
why is it that every response to an "exmuslim" post is "lol you're just a liberal/alt-right/<whatever political ideology i don't like> who hates islam"

dumb fucking pakis

>>13983870
>>13983889
>>13983890
The obvious reason is that Islam takes over part of life. If you go from being a Muslim to non-Muslim, everything changes. It's not just having Sunday mornings to yourself. You cannot explain this to somebody who hasn't lived in a Muslim family.

The post made by >>13983889 is retarded though. Most Ex Muslims don't ever speak about their lack of faith unless it's anonymously, yet this dumbass is acting like a few posts on 4chan means that being an ex Muslim is some kind of global trend.

Wish you fuckers would convert to Islam, change your mind, and get fucking beheaded so you could see for yourself.

>>13979488
Not interested in making this thread about intelligence or IQ but the average muslim IQ is 82 which is borderline retarded. These numbers hardly improve in a western environment.
Just to state one reason why so many muslims mistake non-sense for facts.

>>13984484
isn't it closer to 95 or something though?

>>13984561
Probably for US muslims. Muslims in Europe (at least those that immigrated into) score around 90.
USA screens its immigrants and most European muslims come from Turkey or the Maghreb states so score naturally higher than one from Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. I don't know what pakis in Britain score. Apparently, it's substantially lower than Black British.

>>13979488
Read the Oxford translation, back to forth, i.e. starting with the last sura, this way it's a really nice and satisfying read. It's very self-referencing, so by reading it backwards you're left to wonder about a lot of implications, that later may clear up. I went into it as an pantheistic existentialist with no expectations, but found it to be a highly delightful and soothing experience. But don't fall for the cleric meme, Arabs and other Muslims want you to believe that you have no capacity to interpret this text yourself and need to follow scholarly exegesis, need to submit and become passive in the face of "authority", even though it is completely anti-Quranif you actually read it with a brain cell. I say fuck these people and their school of thoughts. These people are like fucking Judas. Read in the written records about how the contemporaries of the prophet decided for a successor (kalif) after he died, while the guy who was (according to records) designated by the prophet himself (the one the Shia rooted for) was still in the middle of burying him. Or how second Kalif was responsible for the death of the prophet's daughter. Hell, the Sunnis (the majority and fans of the de-facto successors) fucked the grave of the prophets mother and daughter. But you can't trust the Shia clerics with exegesis either, almost all of them (fundamentalist sects) are dogmatics who claim to have absolute understanding of how things should be understood and therefore performed, judging *for people* by telling them what to do and how to think (which is why your average muslim is a retard), thereby setting up their own interpretation as partner to God - one of the few thinks that really rustles God's jimmies and that he fucks people for - hard. You motherfucking oppressors just wait, I too am waiting.

>>13984691
>one of the few thinks
Fuck me. Sheer anger turns me into a retard as well.

>>13984477
Is beheading actually a thing if you decide to drop the religion in the west? I thought it was mostly Muslim families that were doing honour kills

>>13979517
This was a fairly sensible post until you wrote
>no more poetic than my granny’s sharts.
I’m sure you must think English-language poetry is the best (or even particularly good) because you’ve only read other poetry translated.

>>13984252
>that Muslims believe in some sort of once-saved-always-saved
There is no atonement of the cross in Islam, sins that are not repented of must be forgiven, if they are at all, at judgement

>>13985260
Honor killings are not permitted in Islamic law except for murder and then after trial. Apostasy also requires a trial

>>13985316
>It's another episode of X nationality thinking they have inherently superior poetry because of their language

>>13982221
you'll go back one day you inbred fuck

>>13982720
what is orthodox christianity
lmao

>>13985608
Seething wh*toid

>>13985614
gender mixing and miniskirts in church, dating to find a spouse, female chanters, everything the church fathers condemned

>>13985356
Honor killings are technically permissible. You should read the fiqh rulings relating to it. There is no shariah punishment for a man who kills his children because they are his children. That doesn't mean its praiseworthy though.

>>13985640
I have, in fact I have even read writing on it by the Taliban. You are lying

>>13979488
I didn't think so. It's very repetitive and not really narrative. I think Mohammed's biography would be much more interesting.

>>13985640
>>13985688
To clarify the source of your lie: there is no Hadd or Qisas punishment. The punishment is Tazir, which is still Sharia. Adultery and sodomy are Tazir crimes for example

>>13980732

MashaAllah I had a very similar experience with Islam as well! I'm glad to see other people see it this way too. Islam is very beautiful!

>>13985696
Are there any good books that tell the story of Muhammad and his companions down to the succession crisis?

>>13985688
You are lying. The taliban are guys who were educated by deobandis in pakistan. They didn't "write" anything, not are they an authority in islamic jurisprudence.

>>13985640
You're confusing mainstream Islam, which is the Quranic version, with Asian Islam which is extremely different. Islam, just like all major religions, has different sects or groups and the Pakistani/Indian side have a very wavy line separating religion from culture. When you see things like grooming gangs in the West they are almost ALWAYS from the Indian sub-continent. Islam that is practised by Arabs is very different.

You'll see a lot of people point to Hadiths as an explanation for their actions but in truth the Hadiths aren't law, they're merely stories told about the prophet's life and those of his followers from secondary/tertiary sources. People from Asia don't have Arabic as a first language which means they have to rely on religious leaders to interpret it for them which is what gives the Taliban such power.

>>13979509
This is clearly someone who was forced to follow the religion and rebelled against it, which is understandable I guess. Where he sees a book scaring people into following the religion I see one that offers humanity a guide through life and tells you how to avoid harming yourself. Where he sees Allah punishing those who don't believe I see Allah showing us how we punish ourselves by not leading a virtuous life.

>>13979488
Don't rely on me or anyone else in this thread as you're going to get conflicting opinions, not to mention 4chan is full of racists so you won't get a genuine answer. Read it for yourself and make your own mind up, starts with the smaller verses at the back.

>>13987297
But they did and in fact they were educated in Deobandi jurisprudence and applied it. Their authority in such matters is why tribes submitted to their arbitration

>>13979509
20 bucks say youre persian

>>13987673
Grooming gangs have as much to do with Hanafi Madhab as MS-13 has to do with Latin Catholicism

>Hadiths aren't law
They aren't Hudud, they are the basis for Tazir. Stoning for example is only in Hadiths

>>13984233
Muslims BTFO

>>13982798
cope

>>13979488
Not really desu
You should if your an intelectuel read it once though

>>13987720
Nietzsche beat out Schopenhauer on Islam

>>13982798
still better than 90% ex christians who left cause priest was making them feel bad for fucking their girlfriend or cause media told them church is bad

>>13979488

>>13984325

Not him but you're very obviously ignorant to its point. The use of repetition and its subsequent hypnosis attempt a powerful indoctrinating and engulfing effect which is pragmatic for its context: getting the reader to recognize the reality of God and their duties onto Him. It is an incredibly useful poetic device and is exercised beautifully in the Qur'an. Its purpose is not complex bedazzlement, but simple magnetism for a more than understandable cause. The apparent simplicity but multitudinous degrees of depth are one of the many gems of the Qur'an, and to discredit it is to discredit the function of the text, which, realistically, is hardly a literary critique.

>>13987744

>>13979488
Of course not.

>>13987755

>>13987761

>>13987768

>>13987776

>>13987744
>>13987755
>>13987761
>>13987768
>>13987776
>>13987789

Out of curiosity, do you save these images specifically to antagonize Islam threads? Why do you do that, is it fulfilling to you in some way?

>>13987744
>>13987755
>>13987761
>>13987776
>>13987776
>>13987789

The legitimacy of religion is proven in the experience of the believers, not historical or textual contradictions (which are present in all Abrahamic texts, as many know) so it's weird that you keep these as a sort of "HA, got those dumb Muslims" in your back pocket when in reality, the fruits of Islam are well known to believers. You can surely contradict any religion with facts, but you can't invalidate experience, hence there are followers at all. People have a strange idea that religions just grow out of a group-psychosis rather than sincerely positive, transcendental feeling. I think being hung up on history and contradictions keeps people from understanding the purpose and truth of religion.

>>13987893
>Converting people to your religion through terrorism has been tradition since your prophet
>But muh mislamic experience
Absolute state

>>13987917

This is also true for Christianity and I know many Christians who have had beautiful experiences with God. You're missing my point quite willfully here, but I get it, history and politics tend to obfuscate the truth of religion and spirituality in general, but I urge you to look past it. Islam has been beautiful for me and many others I know, I have also seen Christianity and Judaism be beautiful for many, all with similar experiences of God, and even those without religion, we all share in this. But the Qur'an makes it easier to connect with God and reap the rewards from cultivating said relationship. If you have the sort of Marxist idea, where religion is merely political instrument, then you miss the jewel of it.

>>13987866
Islam is a false religion. It deserves everything it gets.

>>13987893
There is no fruits of a rotten tree. You're deluded. If you think fruits are worshipping a false god and fucking a goat.

Islam is the dumbest fucking shit on the planet, and having spoken to go's I know Islam is false. However, they don't deserve their countries being bombed. But they deserve all the shit they get for their stupid made up garbage.

>>13988007
>>13987998

Why are you so bitter about your feelings towards Islam? Do you feel this way about all religions which can be contradicted with historical fact, or Islam particularly? Did something offend you about it, or do you find that generally, when others believe things you disagree with, a spite is generated?

>>13979488
All books that have lasted a millenia usually are

>>13988016
>stating the truth
>bitter
Jej. Stay deluded brainlet. I hear a goat in the distance. Islam is literally enduced from a demon that possessed a fucked in the head warlord. You worship the words of a demon and pedophile whose fruits are rotten.

I have no spite, I just think the eradication of stupidity is for the betterment of everyone.

>>13988033

>I have no spite
>Several angry replies about religion in a thread that is simply curious towards the text's literary value

I get that don't like it but no need to be coy.

>>13979509
>the amount of assblasted Muslims responding to this post
Allah is satan

>>13988055
Bahaha I guess when youre used to a psycho angry desert God you think everything is angry. Get fucked mohammed. Snackbar yourself for your virgins.

>>13980732
>texts about the metaphysical aspects of the religion

any recs? currently reading the greeks, but planning to delve into islamic phil in the near future

>>13979488

"Islam is not just a religion. It is an ideology for domination. Its religious
component is a thin veneer of icing on the cake. The mystical aspect of Islam was
invented later by Muslim scholars and philosophers who gave esoteric
interpretations to the Quran’s nonsensical verses. They molded the religion
according to their penchant. With the passage of time, those interpretations inherited
the seal of antiquity. Without these interpretations, the Quran is an asinine book
with no substance. The Salafis/Wahhabis are Muslim reformers who reject any
interpretation of the Quran. They follow it literally. Hence, they promote jihad and
terrorism. Theirs is the real Islam. All other interpretations are alterations and
corruptions."

I just finished this book recently. It gives context to many verses from the Quran and also has valuable reflections on Hadith and the biography of the Prophet Muhammad. You learn a lot about what we know about him, his life and the origins of Islam, on such subjects as his relationship with his first wife Khadijah and her role in the beginning of Islam, etcetera.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/understanding-muhammad-free-download/

http://www.mediafire.com/file/pceay2w8lxbu1oj/Understanding-Muhammad_sixth_edition_in_English_-Ali_Sina.pdf

>>13988183
>Islam is not just a religion. It is an ideology for domination. Its religious component is a thin veneer of icing on the cake
Based on the pozzed modernist take that religion and ideology/politics are mutually exclusive

>>13988183
you are a protestant and you are wrong about islam jsut like you are wrong about christianity

>>13986478
And MUHAMMAD His Life Based on the Earliest Sources by Martin Lings

>>13979488
>>13979488
The Quran is an occult text written by various syncretic heretics and criminals who fled into the deserts of Arabia that was then completely repurposed and reinterpreted to motivate a war.
The text was never intended to make sense to outsiders and it's likely Mohammed never existed.
>inb4 it was made clear and easy to understand
No. The text is talking about being written in Arabic as opposed to Hebrew.

>>13988266

ngl made me giggle

>>13979488
Which is the part about crashing airplanes into office buildings?

>>13988087
Jalaluddin Rumi, who you have probably heard of, was a commentator of the Quran. The Masnavi covers, elucidates, gives commentary on and refers to the Quran throughout.

I recommend staying away from the nonsense that is the best-selling American free-verse "translation" of Rumi's poetry by Coleman Barks. Coleman Barks does not know a word of Farsi but spruced up some excerpts of various English translations he found and jumbled them up to a book of brief chopped up translations of translations in a punchy American style known as "The Essential Rumi" so you get a lot of young English speaking Americans saying they're fans of Rumi for reading this "book of poetry by Rumi." Not trying to knock it though, if people enjoy it and get something out of it it's still valid, and perhaps can be still said to come through the original kernel of genius that was his mind. It's hard to read it knowing that I could be reading complete versions of his works at this point, though, however.

You may appreciate this talk about the life of Rumi as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj86pH0CAIg

>>13988308
Seconded. Also stay away from the translations by Maryam Mafi and Azima Melita Kolin. They are poor translators and many of the poems they include in their book are actually falsely attributed to Rumi.

>>13988338
I looked up the authors you've mentioned and realized I've seen this shit before. I was in a bookstore and "RUMI" caught my eye but in the very same instance I completely wrote it off, it looks like it should be published by Hallmark and I read books in first grade that had smaller font than it.

>>13987673
Blaming grooming gangs on the hanafi fiqh, really?
Why are *alafi's so angsty? Why don't you lick the feet of MBS and tell me another tale of Muhammad Ibn Wahab and Al Bani.

>>13988308
Rumi is extremely based.
pic related also.

>>13988308
>translation by Jawid
shouldn't there be 6 books? on amazon I can only find 4 translation books by Jawid

>>13988183
>"Islam is not just a religion. It is an ideology for domination.
top kek

>>13984705
I agree, that was retarded

80% of Shia beliefs are based on obligatory precaution, what crack are you smoking?

>don't fall for the cleric meme

it's not a meme, it's common sense to have one person study something then tell everyone what he knows instead of having everyone study it. that's why we have scientists. check your arrogance, experts are experts. they know more than you, 4channer with disgusting language.

>>13984691
>back to forth, i.e. starting with the last sura
is this dude for reals?

>>13988811
based

>>13979509
hijabi hoes mad

I think it's good to read all famous religious texts just for the sake of reading them. A lot of people find these books good enough to base their beliefs upon them and you could argue that they are the most influential texts ever written. Believe in god or not, I think everyone should give the famous holy books a read.

>>13979509
>how Allah is going to punish you if you don't believe
breh have you read a real bible? I mean the KJV and not some newage hippie translation

>>13988087

Good stuff being posted here by the other anons.
The realm of Islamic philosophy is deliciously vast and endlessly fascinating, filled with a long tradition of influences, rejections and constant battles with its own identity, whether it should even be allowed existence. I am by no means an expert on this matter, and still have much more reading ahead of me to be carried out in due time, Insha Allah. But let me try to pass on what little I’d like to believe I know about this tradition, and what keeps me going, to find out more.
If you go through Islamic philosophy and contemporary Islamic philosophy wikis, you’ll get a list of names and books that shaped Muslim thinking throughout the years, which you can read to form your own thoughts upon. But the way this thought had unrolled and the unique refutations it produced, each more esoteric than the last, has allowed for a breathtaking purity to be extracted from a text that already denounced the material world, from its very inception. That’s the Islamic head start, a conversation that begins with the metaphysical, and goes only in that direction.
You speak of Greek tradition, which plays closely into when the roots of the philosophy were established. Avicenna, and the other scholars, of the Islamic Golden Age, were heavily influenced by the Greeks, and embraced their thinking into their brands of science, as well as metaphysics, even loaning the word philosophia as falsafa. The tired arguments of fatalism and freewill had to be put to an end but what next step could emerge from this other than retreating towards orthodox thought; not physical, but, almost asking of no further elaboration or intuition, in an age when advancement was flourishing?
In a historic move, Al Ghazali combatted with the introduction of a text rejecting the philosophers, possessed with an ingrained form of spirituality that denounced notions of analyzing physicalities and worldly focus. The issue at hand had been resolved, but what happens when you bind limitlessness in spiritual thought, with a Truth wholly unquantifiable and all-inclusive, practically asking to be exalted in all it’s harmony and perfect order? That’s when you get the birth of pure Islamic mysticism, the concept that spread through the Rumis and the Jamis of the world, and the myriad of Sufi orders, all attempting to process the Truth, through the different attributes of it’s Creator, in poetry, and in song. It’s what inspired the transcendentalists; Emerson, Thoreau and Dickinson, as they looked beyond what the world had to offer.
The Islamic truth is immaterial, in the image of it’s Creator, Allah Subhana wa Ta’alah, the Truth and grace it has to offer, is limitless, and infinite.

>>13988087

Good stuff being posted here by the other anons.

The realm of Islamic philosophy is deliciously vast and endlessly fascinating, filled with a long tradition of influences, rejections and constant battles with its own identity, whether it should even be allowed existence. I am by no means an expert on this matter, and still have much more reading ahead of me to be carried out in due time, Insha Allah. But let me try to pass on what little I’d like to believe I know about this tradition, and what keeps me going, to find out more.

If you go through Islamic philosophy and contemporary Islamic philosophy wikis, you’ll get a list of names and books that shaped Muslim thinking throughout the years, which you can read to form your own thoughts upon. But the way this thought had unrolled and the unique refutations it produced, each more esoteric than the last, has allowed for a breathtaking purity to be extracted from a text that already denounced the material world, from its very inception. That’s the Islamic head start, a conversation that begins with the metaphysical, and goes only in that direction.

You speak of Greek tradition, which plays closely into when the roots of the philosophy were established. Avicenna, and the other scholars, of the Islamic Golden Age, were heavily influenced by the Greeks, and embraced their thinking into their brands of science, as well as metaphysics, even loaning the word philosophia as falsafa. The tired arguments of fatalism and freewill had to be put to an end but what next step could emerge from this other than retreating towards orthodox thought; not physical, but, almost asking of no further elaboration or intuition, in an age when advancement was flourishing?

In a historic move, Al Ghazali combatted with the introduction of a text rejecting the philosophers, possessed with an ingrained form of spirituality that denounced notions of analyzing physicalities and worldly focus. The issue at hand had been resolved, but what happens when you bind limitlessness in spiritual thought, with a Truth wholly unquantifiable and all-inclusive, practically asking to be exalted in all it’s harmony and perfect order? That’s when you get the birth of pure Islamic mysticism, the concept that spread through the Rumis and the Jamis of the world, and the myriad of Sufi orders, all attempting to process the Truth, through the different attributes of it’s Creator, in poetry, and in song. It’s what inspired the transcendentalists; Emerson, Thoreau and Dickinson, as they looked beyond what the world had to offer.

The Islamic truth is immaterial, in the image of it’s Creator, Allah Subhana wa Ta’alah, the Truth and grace it has to offer, is limitless, and infinite.

>>13987673
There is no "mainstream islam vs asian islam" distinction you are making.

According to the shafii school of fiqh, there is no set punishment for honor killings and no qadi (judge) is going to punish a man for it because its just a part of the culture.

>>13989706
>Tazir is Urf in Shafi'i school

Urf isn't even recognized by them

>>13979648
>it's bad
Oh cool, can you give an example
>t-the jihad bits

Nice try bro.

>>13979648
>Parts on Jihad.

>>13982692
>Not convert, though I did later, but just study.
Idiot. Same shit different smell

>>13981458

Yes, there is. The only problem is the benighted horde who threaten to kill the leaver who thereby properly endeavors to improve their existence. Islam, like organized crime, shares a central characteristic of all morally illegitimate, complex evil organizations: threatening those who would leave it on pain of death. And this exactly on account of their inability to rationally justify their own existences as cultures, leaving only a cynical masquerade of de facto power.

>>13982798

It's orthogonal to the false content of the cult itself: muslims themselves, on account of their race, are generally of lower intelligence than westerners. I interact with an extreme cohort (Somalis) on a daily basis. I won't bother to find a small pic of a Saudi man who looks like he has a caved-in head, for illustration.

>>13989817
>>13989867
Do you have anything valuable to say you inbred fucking paki?

>>13988836
He is still working on it, I believe.