/lit/ - Literature

>>13962731
I haven't read it myself but probably Temple of the Golden Pavilon. I started with The Sailor who Fell from Grace with the Sea, it was a good book but you might drop Mishima altogether and think he's a weird sadistic pervert if you started with that.

>>13962731
It just depends on what you're trying to read. The Sound of Waves is probably his easiest and most standard sort of work. I started with The Sailor Who Fell From Grace With The Sea, and I've recommended that to a lot of people only to find that most don't understand at all what he's going for with the book and just see him as some weird psychopath, but if you can think a little bit about what you're reading it's a good book about the question of meaning for modern men.

>>13962782
I'm a sadistic pervert so that's okay. What about Spring Snow?

>>13962806
The entire Sea of Fertility Tetralogy is great but you're not really doing yourself a service by reading his most complicated and profound work first unless you're someone who likes to reread things later.

>>13962731
gay sex

>>13962819
Good Advice. I'll read The Sailor Who Fell From Grace with the Sea.

>>13962731

the sailor who fell from grace with the sea

The Sailor is his best work. Temple of the Golden Pavillion and Confessions were interesting but not page turners as The Sailor. Spring Snow and Runaway Horses werent terribly interesting to me surprisingly.

>>13962731
>>13962820
Reminder that there's no evidence of him being gay.

>>13962731
i want Mishima to get into me

>>13962731
>height
>1.63m
HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

>>13963044
In the middle of reading Spring Snow right now. It kind of just feels like the really romantically written parts of Sailor without the disturbing shit. Don't really mind it. Protagonist is literally me, and I can kind of guess plot is protagonist goes from melancholy fuck boy to inspired chad that dies for love, so I hope he inspires me into chad along with the protagonist.

>>13963097
I haven't really looked into whether or not Mishima was gay but him writing about gay people, that st. sebastian photoshoot, his cute twink protagonists (Kiyoaki is explicitly described as having had a hot trap bod), his bodybuilding, and his far-right nationalist leanings all make him pretty sus desu.

was he a top or a bottom?

>>13963117
No, Kiyoaki can't be you because in fact, he is me.

>>13962731
If you can "get" Temple of the Golden Pavilion, then it's a good intro to his other works, as it establishes his concept of beauty as a destructive force. The Sailor was the first one I read but it's really better as a primer to his tetralogy than as an introduction to his work generally.

Everything he wrote is great, though. Start with whichever interests you the most. I really wish some weeb would hurry up and translate Kyoko's House!

I've read Sailor, Confessions and Temple
of those, i would recommend Sailor as an entry point

holy fuck i wish this were me
how in the fuck was he so based

>>13963853
You have to be born as a descendant of the samurai aristocracy. Go nobilize your own heritage through the creation of art then kill yourself in a grand spectacular gesture.

>>13963864
unironically considering doing something like this. life as art and the whole nietzschean thing. Live like rimbaud for a while, produce a shit load of art, settle down, have a family, reguler job and do art on the side and then finally just before i truly get old go on a final grand adventure certain to end in my demise. die under a cloudless sky in the shining sun of some other country.

i really cant see myself living any other way. there is no honor or beauty in common life of working until death. my heart demands beauty and excellence and wild country.

>>13963953
>Live like rimbaud for a while,
The way Rimbaud lived ruined his art. It just gets worse and worse over his period of debauchery and then he gave up entirely

>>13963412
How does having right wing leanings make someone gay? Also he could just be super comfortable with his sexuality and didn't feel the need to care.

The best one is the very recent called Aesthetic Terrorist: An Intellectual Portrait. The introduction has a decent informal literature review of the earlier biographies too, pointing out how they are deficient and partial.

>>13962731
f,n,d,d/f+2

>>13964137
A less known but excellent analysis of mishima is Roy Starrs Deadly Dialectics. Looks at Mishima and his work in terms of Nietzsche (especially the appolonian/dionysian distinction, something mishima explicitly references), various contemporary psychologists, etc. Incredibly good stuff.

>>13963953
>>13963853
chad jawline

>>13962983
>>13962819
What are the negetive repurcussions of skipping from The Sailor Who Fell from Grace with the Sea straight to The Sea Fertility tetralogy?

>>13964350
There really aren't any aside from maybe being less acquainted with the way he handles certain themes. I'd say the main drawback is that it's a bit boring to work back from his most in depth and serious work towards a novella that went on to sort of develop into one of the main themes in the second book. Once you've read Runaway Horses then The Sailor Who Fell From Grace with The Sea seems a bit like a rehash thematically. This is not true in the other direction because Runaway Horses added a good bit more depth to the same ideas while also presenting them in a very different story.

>>13964817
Thanks

1-Patriotism (Short story)
2-The Sailor who Fell from Grace with the Sea
3-Spring snow
4-Runaway Horses (last 2 entries in sea of fertility are optional desu)
5-The Temple of the Golden Pavilion
6-Sun and Steel

He wrote a shitton of stuff, but these were my personal favourites in order.

>>13964121
Who cares if he was Gay? He had 2 kids, a great acting and writing career, got stronk and tried to save his country.

Probably accomplished more in his life then some countries have in their entire histories.

>>13965952
He started lifting because his tranny friend called him a manlet

>>13965952
I don't really care if he is gay or not. I was just wondering how holding right wing views makes someone gay.

>>13963457
Basically this

I just finished Runaway Horses and have thoroughly enjoyed the Sea of Fertility thus far. What am I in for in Temple of Dawn?

Is this fucking true?
>Mishima stepped onto the balcony to address the soldiers gathered below. His speech was intended to inspire a coup d'état to restore the power of the emperor. He succeeded only in irritating the soldiers, and was mocked and jeered. He finished his planned speech after a few minutes, returned to the commandant's office and performed seppuku. The assisting kaishakunin duty at the end of this ritual (to decapitate Mishima) had been assigned to Tatenokai member Masakatsu Morita, who was unable to properly perform the task. After three failed attempts at severing Mishima's head, he allowed another Tatenokai member, Hiroyasu Koga, to behead Mishima.
How can I read anything of this guy's after this? My fucking god. The cringe. I can feel it overwhelming me through time and space.

>>13962731
Which book by his is most relataable to Bataille´s philosophy.

>>13967154
Yes, all true. Mishima was a faggot LARPer who took things too far.

>>13965940
Is that a recolor or are there pics of him in not in b&w?

>>13967154
>Is this fucking true?
>Did he actually tried to do something for his country instead of being a sterile pseudointellectual that thinks too much and acts too little?
Yeah I guess. You need more than 200mg/l free testosterone to understand though.

>>13967154
Just like how pitiful the life of Max Stirner was after The Ego and his Own turned out to be complete flop, it's the striking contrast between the gloomy reality of their demise to the idealistic, unreachable dreams these philosophers had that adds to the beauty of their works.

>>13967154
I wouldn't really call it cringe. He saved it by offing himself. Anyone willing to take their life for a cause deserves some respect.

>>13967154
Sort of paralleled in Runaway Horses, the plan doesn't go off perfectly but is that any reason not to try? Are you so afraid of making a fool of yourself that you'd fail to even try? You've gotta see the beauty in the vain, pointless, and flawed.

>>13962731
>I want to get into Mishima
Buy him a drink

>>13962782
Temple of the Golden pavilion might have the same effect lol

>>13962731
He really isn't worth reading

>>13968813
who would you consider worth reading?

>>13968994
Lots of people anon, who gives a shit?

>>13967154
Imagine having principles you were willing to die for! Cringe!

>>13964186
Thanks for this recommendation bro. I've been interested in this for ages.

>>13969114
This board is full of weak little pseud boys who lack conviction

>>13966244
Can't help you with that but I heard that the Waffen SS had a lot of buttsecks going on within their ranks.

>>13970401
How’d you prove your claim

>>13967154
>man lived and died for an aesthetic ideal
>deracinated slugs can't relate

water wet

http://lit.eco

>>13962731
Start with his short stories

>>13962731
I think either The Sailor Who Fell from Grace with the Sea or Confessions of a Mask. They're both manageable, interesting, and do a good job of introducing you to the aesthetic ideas that are in all of his works.

>>13970427
Did you not read what>>13967154 said? He is certainly one of them.

>>13963117
My guy, unless you've read a summary of the series you have no idea where it's going.

>>13970462
Do I need to read Thomas Mann or Oscar Wilde beforehand? Apparently he was a huge fan of both. I already read Nietzsche, so there's that.

>>13970468
I've read no Oscar Wilde and the only Mann I've read was Death in Venice (and I might have read that after The Sea of Fertility I don't remember) so take from that what you will.

In my opinion Mishima's works stand on their own, even without reading them together, and stand together as an ouvre as well. Someone said earlier that if you read The Sea of Fertility that the last two books are not necessary. While the first two are much better than the last two, the whole series basically only exists for that last few pages of The Decay of the Angel so I don't really think you can skip anything. In Sun and Steel he talks about the importance of dying a beautiful death, which I think can obviously be extended to the idea that a whole narrative can be justified by a single aesthetic moment, which is what I believe happens in The Sea of Fertility. His work is attractive to people because he had a tremendous sense of aesthetic, was aware of the toxicity - and willful stupidity - of blind allegiance to aesthetics, but didn't care. The amazing thing is that all of the people in this thread talking about the actions that immediately preceded his death got it wrong. He didn't care about the speech. He didn't care about Japan. He wanted a beautiful death and needed a justification for committing seppuku. Anyone who reads The League of the Divine Wind portion of Runaway Horses (or Runaway Horses for that matter) might have guessed what lay in Mishima's future.

>>13970598
There's something beautiful to me about that sort of single-minded dedication of oneself to an ideal. Maybe I'm just a weirdo. Even weirder considering that I'm usually at odds with people in real life who don't have both of their feet firmly on the ground.

>>13970663
I mean the guy is super popular considering the kind of stuff he writes so you're not weird. That's the point though, it is beautiful, but it is an entirely solipsistic way of approaching life, I think that's why it's appealing. To me, beauty is like mainlining meaning, it doesn't need further justification or analysis in the same way that action out in the world does. People like the idea that they can create a life for themselves that is full of beauty and therefore by its nature meaningful and worthwhile, and damn everybody else as long as I get mine. And what's even better, is that you can create an aesthetic environment for yourself (which is to say delude yourself) in which you are acting nobly, in fact you have to because your aesthetic vision is at least in part societally defined. So despite acting in a totally self-interested and even antisocial way you must (to do what Mishima did) convince yourself that you are acting in some way in the best interest of something greater than yourself. Obviously that's what everyone wants, is to feel like they're contributing to something important. The reason the Mishima thing is attractive is because it posits a way of doing that without actually doing anything (though of course, he contributed quite a bit with his writing).

>>13970718
He strikes me as the sort of guy who can socialize but can't connect with others. In such case, what is a man to do but define himself in a solipsistic manner? Untethered men have never been the ones to have collective compassion for mankind at large. Solipsism is not always a choice, but a necessity to assert oneself against the world.

>>13964121
I take it you haven't read Confessions of a Mask.

>>13971569
I suppose I should read it before I talk. I still stand by my point that being right wing is not an indication of homosexuality.

>>13964121
It's not about right-wing, but about the particular kind of fascist roleplay of the time that Mishima was into. All the dandyist fascist-inclined writers of his generation either had a very open and brutal dislike of homosexuality of a very strong ambivalence towards it.

>>13971684
I wanted to give you the typical snappy remark in the lines of "no, those boobs are an indication of homosexuality" or something like that, then I realized it was self-contradictory.
So instead I'll just thank you for the boobs.

>>13962731
depends what you are after if politics sun and steel, Patriotism , Way Of The Samurai if you are after fiction the sailor who fell from grace, temple of the golden pavilion

>>13971896
Are his politics actually worth reading? Would a westerner get anything from it? I know he goes into weightlifting and stuff like that, but would I take anything from his political writings that would change my outlook on western society?

>>13971695
Weird how the whole “gay identity” has completely changed in half a century. It used to be like yeah I fuck men on occasion, so what? It was honestly kind of based. Now it’s completely degenerated into a fruit fest. We can learn a lot of Mishima if he actually was gay.

>>13962731
Actually i think you should start with his short stories. Death in midsummer will give you a pristine idea of his style.

>>13972151
Are there any translators to steer away from?

>>13970401
Agreed

>>13972307
Thanks fren

>>13971684
Basically, for the cultural marxist/neoleftist/liberal. Everything belief that opposes his own is an indication of either having a small penis, being a repressed homosexual, and similar things.

I don't know why so don't ask, could be that they are projecting since objectively speaking one thing has nothing to do with the other.

>>13971569
Have you? If you're implying that the main character of Confessions of a Mask is gay, you're way off. What are the objects of his sexual focus? Are they just men or are they something else?

>>13973510
Are there any writings about this?

>>13972104
t. pagan

>>13974098
t. christcuck

>>13974002
Refer to this >>13973510

>>13974004
About leftist obsession with differently sized penises and with who might or not be secretly an homosexual? Not specifically but you can pretty much pin it to Freudian thought.

Imagine you are a leftist, you go to a gun range and see a guy having a fun time shooting at a target with his kid or partner, you see the weapon and start thinking about a penis and say, heh, he probably has a small penis.
Or, imagine you see a man put off by the thought of going to a gay bar or having a transexual partnet and think, heh, he probably thinks about sucking dicks 24/7.
Or you see a man that sticks to their race and avoids being near conflictive minorities or interacting with them and think, oh, he must have a 2 inch dick hehe.

What Freud would see in these examples is someone who has a very oversexualized subconscious and has some kind of problem with it or feels some kind of shame so he puts those thoughts into the people he perceives as his "enemies", for example if he gave great importance to penis size or was ashamed of his own, he would say that X people have a small penis as a way to put in them what is unconfortable to him. And the homosexual stuff can be explained with how most modern leftists (according to statistics) have low testosterone which is tied to homosexual inclinations, they might be ashamed of liking some homosexual stuff and so they also pin it to their political opponents. That's basically the gist of it. Freudian projection.

>>13974002
>seriously not believing homosexuality is a core element in confessions

Completely delusional

>>13974285
So people who think about sex too much are usually leftists?

>>13974297
You should try answering the questions in that comment. They bear on the nature of the sexuality of the main character.

>>13975128
I was refering to subconsciously rather than consciously, but also yes. Normally right-wingers view sex as something intended to reproduce and give more importance to other things and leftists view sex as an hedonistic pleasure far away removed from the idea of reproducing, their lives are usually more "empty" and sex is their choice to "unwind" while the right-winger has a larger repertoire of activities that sublimates sexual energy.

Think about the insults of the leftist: virgin, have sex, nobody loves you, nobody likes you, incel...
They are all sexual and social.

The Age of Blue (Ao no jidai)

>>13973510
>>13974285
>>13975255
Absolute truth. Some guy has a big car, small dick. Some guy has a over the top gun, small dick. Some guy likes to work out and do martial art, small dick. It's always the same.

>>13974125
Why the pejorative? I didn't call you a "pagancuck."

>>13964121
The usual leftist projection.
>f-fascism is homosexual!
They blurt out while niggers are buggering their asses.
>T-the ussr was s-socially conservative! It's capitalism that causes d-degeneracy!
Meanwhile a little twinky dressed in a politburo uniform is giving them a rimjob
>>ALL PRIESTS ARE PEDOPHILES! I'M COOOOOOOOOOO...
Kids in red guard uniform step on their cocks.

>>13975459
I Have a Suzuki jimny, a Beretta and i never work out.
How gynormous must my cock be by your retarded standards?

>>13975863
You should have had.
He serves the Powers and Principalities, he's the cuckiest cuck.

>>13975927
>owning a gun
0,5 inch

>>13965952
too me it looks like the kid is putting her knee into his raging boner lmao

This thread made me realise something. I decide to try Mishima and went for Spring Snow (it's regarded his best). I understood the plot and some of the messages/themes but I could not see what was so great about it. Why is it not a good book to start with? What did I miss?

>>13963044
I actually found Confessions of a Mask to be more captivating than Sailor. While I think the ideas that he explores in Sailor (especially sight, being seen, and performance)are important and impressively executed, I think the struggle that Kochan faces in Mask between self identification and social identification is overall stronger and more enjoyable.

>>13976076
I mean it's the very first book in a pretty large in scope tetralogy. It's not meant to be read on its own, its primary function is to establish the world in which the rest of the narrative plays out.

>>13975863
Sorry I’m just used to being a dick on /pol/. I’ve been coming here more lately and I’ve become more tame and less autistic but it still comes out at times.

>>13972024
we should kill politicians man, I haven't read that book or whatever, I'm just saying that the practice of killing politicians under specific circumstances is generally worth adopting

>>13975255
This is something that I have always kind of subconsciously noticed but never really formed the thought. Thanks for pointing that out anon.
>>13976076
I was told it is best not to start with his ultimate/best work because his other works build up to it.

>>13963044
This is incorrect. Temple and Confessions are better than Sailor, although all three are quite good.

>>13963727
>I really wish some weeb would hurry up and translate Kyoko's House!

A few months ago, some guy on /lit/ translated a couple of chapters of an as yet untranslated Mishima work - he was new to translating, sort of practicing in public. I don't know how far he got with that. Anybody else remember that?

>>13977061
she is disgusting, fuck you for making me look at her

>>13967154
>The cringe. I can feel it overwhelming me through time and space.

pfft. nonsense. you're being silly. his great books are great regardless of his weirdness/madness.

>>13977100

she looks pretty good bro, thats why her ass is hanging out

welcome to /lit/ club
>rule 1, we do not talk about /lit/ club
>rule 2, we do not talk about /lit/ club

>>13977172
Its much easier for a manlet to get gains like that

>>13975255
Is this why Dazai is much more sexual than Mishima?

>>13976058
Wow, a third of the male population of the West has 0,5 inches cocks! Who would have known!

>>13977870
Anyone who holds the desire to protect themselves has a small ding dong

>>13975927
It's not my standard, it's me agreeing with the poster that said that leftists have an obsession with penis size. I've seen it happen many time, so I listed the examples.

>>13977198
it's not as much gains as it is low-fat.

>>13978393
Your typical Japanese man does not have muscles like that under their fat.

>>13976518
That's why I stopped browsing /pol/, too much needless negativity even for 4chan

>>13977172
He looks great here. Does anyone know his routine?

Just read the sailor, Wasn't too happy with it but It kept my interest. Should I bother with his other work?