/lit/ - Literature

>>13927544
The eastern 'religions' aren't really religions. They are more philosophical than dogmatic.

>>13927544
>it's another "Christian LARPer who's ignorant about the scholarly tradition and history of his own religion" thread
Do we really need one of those every single day?

>>13927544
It's that last line you threw in there. Easter religions have no natural mechanism for preserving orthodoxy. Additionally, most of them are heavily reliant on individual spiritual experience and enlightenment which is identifiable only by inner peace. That is a recipe for strongly divergent thinking. All that said, however, there is a lot more to Christianity than just the story of the resurrection. For those who are helped by it, there are all the lives of the saints, angelology, complex theological arguments and so on and so on.

>>13927544
Deracinated western people, who treat is as more of a fashion accessory than a code to be followed.

>>13927564
>For those who are helped by it, there are all the lives of the saints, angelology, complex theological arguments and so on and so on.
I have a deep deep respect for all of this. In my humble opinion, nothing comes close to the depth of Christian. Christianity is very vast, but non nonetheless, these things have no bearing on salvation (end goal).

>>13927544
>literally thousands of books, scrolls, ancient texts
[many of which assembled into a single book]
>thousands of interpretations and sects
>extremely convoluted that I don't think that 99% of its adherents understand it either
[especially OP]
>only thing that has even penetrated the public conscious is
[God enters history; suffers and dies for our sins in order for us to be saved; only asks us to believe and follow his commandments]

With a little bit of editing, I have fixed your statements about Christianity. You're welcome.

>>13927544
Yeah, bullshit always runs on squid ink instead of speaking truth plainly.

>>13927544
Westerners were to busy applying their autism to things that actually matter (science, materialistic development and rational philosophy).

>>13927544
another christlet strawmanning traditions he could never understand
grow up faggot

Christianity is not merely the death of God, nor an unfolding recreation within His corpse, it is an exhumation; a harvesting of His organs as talents for Asclepius in the eleventh-hour of the war of Man against the gods; a scorched-earth legalism of necrophilia with the cadaver's limbs; an appeasement to some unnameable force. Ineffable execration of everything beautiful, every eternal law—to which it then reformed in stone, the graveyard of natural law.

This is why the Church exists eternally in retreat, within the petrified justice of its founding, forever reliant upon tentative alliances with its enemies. Natural law undone through apostasy, Christianity is the defilement of creation, disgorgement of Christ's exit wound, the world-weariness of the resurrected, the Holy Ghost of spatter pattering on the sarcophagus.

The Christian Saint befouls every sanctuary, entombing humanity and the law of gods into a deepening pit. Pan is declared dead only so that Aphrodite is forced to reveal herself in judgement. And here the Crucifix becomes the mark of the World Wound, every sanctum crossed out, so that humanity will either submit or have to contend with the monstrous gods released from Orcus. The sarcophagus expands its walls as Christianity attempts to condemn Aphrodite to the plight of Io.

God reveals nothing but His treachery, He is not content with meager resignation of the warring gods, the fallen angels, capitulation and eternal exile are akin to a pardon for him. No, he wants his enemies to rise as dark spirits, chthonic forces feeding on all that remains in opposition to Him. He desires neither the death of the gods nor consumption of their power, He wants to maim and mutilate them—force them to hobble along in his shadow, eternally in His image. Branded as a warning against all who may oppose Him in the future.

There can be no other interpretation of Christianity, its apotheosis erupts from the forges of Hephaestus, the lame one. A world of abyssal law enchained to iron-forged gods, and falling to the forces it fails to nullify—the Christian God attempted to sunder and disgorge the heavens, the material devastation nothing compared to the lost understanding of eternal justice, of dominion. A realm of the Fall and political disgorgement.

If there is a theological meaning to the Book, it has, until now, escaped revelation.

It's just overly vague anti-life bullshit

>>13927634
> schisophasia
Okay.

>>13927655
what’s anti-life about the Eastern religions? Which ones do you think are overly vague?

>>13927544
Hinduism predates Christianity by thousands of years. Many early stories about the gods were preserved as oral traditions and weren't written down for centuries after they were first told.

In effect, everything in Hinduism is built atop a system with a lot more time beneath it than Christianity. Texts like the Bhagavad Gita and Bhagavad Purana contain not only dogmatic messages but early attempts at philosophy and jurisprudence. Just before and during India's Classical Era, scholars were compiling collections like the Dharmasastra, which included vast treatises on the role of kings within quasi-theocratic states.

Furthermore, there are many sectarian divisions and inclinations within Hinduism.

Christianity is comparably understandable because A) you mostly likely grew up either in a Christian community or broadly Christian society and B) the Bible was put together in an era when writing systems were widely used, with various gospels, testimonies and statements selected for cohesion and message by a committee. The Vedas, in contrast, emerged over a longer period of time and were much more organic.

Now, so far as I'm aware, Christianity isn't as straight-forward as you made it sound, either. It also has an extensive history of scholarly debate, nit-picking and tard-tier attempts at philosophizing.

>>13927544
retard

>>13927544
>no mental gymnastics needed to understand doctrine of salvation (end goal to be reunited with God)
HEY GUYS, LET ME IN, I WILL SAVE YOU ALL
From what?
FROM WHAT I WAS DOING AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO TO YOU IF YOU DON'T LET ME IT

>>13927715
POO

>>no mental gymnastics needed to understand doctrine of salvation (end goal to be reunited with God)

Except of course for that whole lack of evidence thing, that's a pretty big one to gymnast over

>>13927726
The only logical choice here is to reject Jesus and being about your eternal suffering, right?

>>13927550
Thank you western white guy with surface level understanding of eastern religions.

>>13927715
Oh, it is Pajeet again. Hello, my adherent of a recent religion first invented by the British East Indies Company to conveniently label the myriad exclusive and contradicting sects, beliefs and cults that were not Muslims in their recently acquired lands, before being used a century later by a Westernized class of Poos to imagine themselves Vedic Kangs n shit.

>>13927744

>inventing easily debunkable conspiracy theories in a sad attempt to prop up your dying religion

Why are christcucks so desperate?

>>13927735
>Unironically accept and love the Entity that has made you eternally guilty under a threat of endless torment for a crime you never commited
Was there ever a debasement, a cuckoldry so utter and hopeless than this,
If some Neoplatonists wanted a convenient vehicle to spread their ideas, they chose the worst possible Semitic Sky Jew to attach it to.

No wonder the Gnostics were so prevalent, the all-loving Jesus is irreconcileable with the infinitely petty and evil Jehovah and the sorry state of the world he himself have created on purpose as an all-knowing enitity with perfect omniscience hence foresight.

>>13927744
>implying various bhakti sects devoted to various incarnations of Vishnu don't predate the East India Company by hundreds of years
>implying various bhakti sects devoted to various incarnations of Vishnu don't predate the Turkish Sultanate and Mughal expansion by hundreds of years

>>13927744
even if this is true those belief and cults still predate christianity

>>13927737
I'm bi-racial

>>13927756
God is sovereign, and glorifies Himself in the way He desires. It would be unfortunate if there were no hope for us, no salvation. But there is, and you reject it, and mock those who accept it! Ridiculous. You’re like one who detests the state of hunger and laughs at those who choose to eat.

>>13927772
you are a egomaniacal demon worshipping cuck please grow up

>>13927763
Christianity was built on Judaism though

>>13927755
To die, something must first live. Luckily Christianity is well documented, if maybe born 200-300 years than it wants to pretend to. Not 3000 years later like the Poos' answer to the West's urge of colonially appropriating their cults too in addition to their labour and land.

Your vaguely related sects are no more Vedic religion than the modern Catholic Saints are the Indo-European pantheon.

Wow, this is some inspiring bait. I've seen a lot of bait in my days, but the op really exerted themselves crafting this exquisite exquisite bait.

What about the Nazarene prophet's admonition to follow the lord your god with all your heart soul and mind and love neighbor as self? Also where exactly is the clear cut picture of salvation and how can it be described to me in terms that are satisfactory to a populace that is aware that nuclear physics exists up to our being able to split an atom? Not discounting that god set up the physics but where is the update to rake in more saved souls?

>>13927772

This is complete gobbledygook. How do you know that you're the one who's in possession of the only right truth, and not some other religion? What is this based on, besides you claiming it?

>>13927777
>if maybe born 200-300 years
later* than it wants to pretend to

>>13927763
>predate christianity
The torah is canonical in Christianity.

>>13927782
Prophecies, history, and wisdom. No other religion is like it. It’s not easy to imagine how it all could have been faked.

>>13927611
Spirituality matters alongside those things, anon. Many people here are upset with their societies, despite how much progress has and continues to be made on those fronts.

>>13927544
Among the many reasons I despise the religious paradigm of the past two millenia is how it introduced the notion that "you MUST follow a tradition, and it MUST be X". Spirituality is a personal domain, and should never have become organized into the cartoonish religious form it appears as today. I have my own personal spiritual views, surrounding the nature of Consciousness (and my belief in it as being God), but I'd never tell someone else they have to, or even should, follow my own personal views. They should follow whatever suits them best. If that means believing in a Personal Savior, so be it. I might have criticisms of that approach, considering it to be incorrect and inferior to mine, and that they'd benefit more if they could bring themselves to simply realizing the nature of their own Consciousness - but that doesn't mean I'd ever stop them from their own personal connection to this area. As for the institutions peddling these doctrines, however, I have no such empathy for them and think they deserve to be wholly criticized for every single behavior they undertake.

>>13927775
Not an argument. Calm your demons

>>13927776
And? The antecedents to contemporary Hinduism were already entrenched in at least 2000 BCE--there are surviving figurines and seals believed to show early renditions of Ram from Harappan excavations.

>>13927777
>I have no idea what I'm talking about: the post

Hindu traditions are disparate. That doesn't mean they are or were completely unconnected. Even notions of passionate bhakti transcended regionality, spreading from south to north over the course of centuries (around 700 CE to 1700-something CE).

>>13927793

>Prophecies, history, and wisdom.

Unfalsifiable

>No other religion is like it.

Muslims beg to differ

>It’s not easy to imagine how it all could have been faked

That's not necessary, it can also be completely wrong

>>13927544
>What's wrong with Eastern religions?
The are demonic ego-destroying untruth.

>>13927806
>Unfalsifiable
Do you believe in historical figures? Do you take all the evidence surrounding Jesus and his fulfillment of numerous OT prophecies as “not enough evidence” or do you actively believe that it’s all fake?
>Muslims beg to differ
Islam affirms Christianity (2:62), even though Christianity teaches a completely different, exclusive message. Islam contradicts itself.
>That's not necessary, it can also be completely wrong
So can everything else we “know.” Why shouldn’t you believe? There is plenty of reason to believe, but you reject all of it.

>>13927550
Not at all. If anything they're more dogmatic because they don't have nearly as strong rational and philosophical currents. They also include a lot more gods, supernatural things, and strict seemingly arbitrary rules and observances.

>>13927772
>But there is, and you reject it
Imagine me raping you every second of your existence from the very childbirth onto the very grave. Hardcore assrape with explicit purpose of filling your life with pain and suffering, because sometimes 50+ generations ago your ancestor maybe broke an arbitrary rule I set him for lulz. You can't do anything with it because I am all-powerful and this is my will to rape your ass into utter suffering, eternally. Your only ticket out of this mess is unconditionally accepting me as your Beloved Lord and Saviour, then I will cease ass-raping you after your physical death on condition you will degrade yourself every week on how you don't love Me enough and confide this with some stranger in a funny hat I ass-rape too anyway.
This is your religion on the Original Sin.

Remember what "rape" used to mean? "Seize prey; abduct, take by force". An unstoppable force has taken you into endless torment, because you are made to simultaneously believe contradictory points:
A. God is Love, God is Good
B. God specifically creates and allows a universe filled with Evil, Pain and Suffering to torment your body before your soul goes to eternal punishment He Himself devised as the Omniscient, therefore knowing everything simultaneously
These points are irrenconcileable. This is why current Christianity is dying - the plebs are no longer stupid enough to ignore this gaping hole in logic. Gnostics at least didn't have this problem at all, they well renounced and blamed the creator for being the petty bitch he is and claimed the loving Jesus to have nothing in common with fiery desert bums' idols.

>>13927796
>I have my own personal spiritual views, surrounding the nature of Consciousness (and my belief in it as being God)
Pantheism is non sensical. If God really is trance dental and personal, which Christianity asserts, then a society should do everything in its power (like Europe did for thousands of years) to adhere to his will. The whole society should be structure according to the will of God.

>>13927820

>Do you believe in historical figures?

Napoleon existing doesn't break the laws of physics, Jesus surviving his own death does. When you make a claim like that and base it on ancient eyewitness accounts that were penned down decades after the events, I have every reason to be skeptical

>Islam affirms Christianity (2:62)

I could say the same thing about Christianity affirming Judaism, and Judaism affirming Zoroastrianism, thatdoesn't mean anything. It's more unfalsifiable garbage

>Why shouldn’t you believe? There is plenty of reason to believe, but you reject all of it.

No there isn't, at least not anything that stands up to even the mildest of scrutiny. Any supernatural claims that Christianity, or any religion that matter, makes, has yet to meet its burden of proof. This isn't about willingness to accept something, this is about perfectly legitiate skepticism in the face of a crummy theological system that is being held up by hearsay, sophism and those mental gymnastics that Christians supposedly didn't need. To top it all off, Christianity is little more than a rehash of Judaism and Zoroastrianism, and is hardly unique in any way. It merely extends these theological system, tweaks a few knobs here and there and makes it about ancient Roman occupied Israel, and the petty politico-theological scraps that took place at the time, and then desperately tries to extend them beyond the time and space they took place in. The only problem is that we have a very good understanding of what these theologies were influenced by, which betrays their human origins

>>13927873
I’d rather not go down the path of misery and meaninglessness. I was incensed on that path and I’m not going back. But if that’s what you want, then I can’t change your mind.

>>13927763
Those beliefs.
Not Hindu beliefs. The Vedic religion is long-long dead and no longer practiced.

>>13927776
Judaism is a Middle Eastern Christian heresy. The Babylonian Talmud was composed over 200 year later than the Nicene Creed was pronounced, and that's like 350 years after the Gospels.
Supposedly written down from the oral form that as just like that all along ever since the time of Moses yet never mention before. Yeah. Absolutely, not a single doubt here, my Moshe.
Basically Islam 0.5, as autistic and petty yet not quite as go-pillage-rape-stuff.

There is no reason to take its beliefs at face value just because they proceed from the Pharisee folk religion. You know, the one with Baal and other Semitic dudes innit besides Jehovah.

>>13927900
>I could say the same thing about Christianity affirming Judaism, and Judaism affirming Zoroastrianism, thatdoesn't mean anything. It's more unfalsifiable garbage
No you couldn’t lmao. The Quran says there are Christians in heaven, but the Bible says Jesus is the only way.

>>13927904
>I’d rather not go down the path of misery and meaninglessnes
Even though I consider Neetsche to be 2 edgy, his utter despise for such Christians who are on the Salvation Train only because they fear Endless Torment from an All-Powerful Torturer they are extremely afraid to question, never saw and never will but somehow expect and LOVE... This shit must die. The quicker the better. Eh, it is just that America is always 50 to 100 years behind Europe. Just look at the not-Communist frienzy you start having merely 110 years after the Russian Empire had the very same shit.
Eh.
The Old Gods died, and the New God died, finally. Something better will arise of it, perhaps.

>>13927880
I believe Consciousness is transcendental, in it's absolute form, but that physical beings like ourselves dwell in it's shallower regions, and are hence unable to recognize this transcendence which is always present. Only through dedicated meditation (or heavy psychedelics, if you take the easy route) could one have a hope of glimpsing it for themselves.

I'm open to believing in an External God, different to Consciousness, but could never believe that same entity to either visit a group of primitive Israelite tribesmen, or to subsequently channel itself into human authors for the scriptures they were writing, especially when said scriptures display no kind of supra-human insight to them whatsoever, and do showcase all the perceptions common to the humans of the societies who wrote it. If institutions hadn't presented Abrahamic scriptures in such a light, it's doubtful that anyone would look at them and consider them to be more than a product of human minds.

I'm open to a notion of God beyond my belief in Consciousness as being that very Reality, but the notion of God presented in Abrahamic religion is not one which I consider to be true. Doesn't mean I don't find wisdom in those scriptures, I do - but I don't consider them metaphysically true.

>>13927908

>The Quran says there are Christians in heaven

Where?

>>13927951
2:62

>>13927960

Cite it, then look this one up:

>So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son.

>>13927937
>Christians who are on the Salvation Train only because they fear Endless Torment from an All-Powerful Torturer they are extremely afraid to question
how about being on the salvation train because you find Christianity true and you want to be with God? Seriously, I feel like this is the most cliche atheist strawman against Christians I hear all the time.

I haven't contemplated the idea of hell for more than 0,5% of the amount of time I have contemplated God. I don't believe out of fear, but love.

>>13927544
What is simple about something that essentially makes no sense?

>>13927971
I'm not an atheist though. The Original Sin+God is Love is still bullshit. Anyway, good luck with your leap of faith n shiet, we're both aliens to each other.

>>13927939
A pleasure reading something sensible here.

>>13927969
>Exalted is He above having a son.
typical camel piss drinking, desert arab mindset. All about pride and not being ever wrong. The arab mindset could never grasp Christianity. There's a reason to why Christianity subsumed Europe and not Middle East

>>13927969
>Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
https://quran.com/2/62?translations=18,84,85,21,22,95,101

>>13927873

Original Sin and Atonement are Pauline fever dreams, otherwise not Scriptural, not to mention not Rational.

>>13927982
>The Original Sin+God is Love is still bullshit.
so much so that God willingly chose to take on the collective sins of all mankind, descend from heaven, die on a cross all this for our redemption, all of it for free.

>>13928000

>And whoever does not believe in Allahand His Messenger, then surely We have preparedburning fire for the unbelievers

Guess who 'His Messenger' refers to

>>13928000
arabs are so prideful they are ready (and if you have ever been around arabs, you know this) to lie about the most mundane, meaningless, banal shit ever, just so that they might not be perceived by others to be wrong on one topic. This is the eternal story about arabs, whenever you study or read something about arabs, you should always be aware of this fact

>>13928034
Christians aren’t Christians because they believe in Muhammed

>>13927982
Thanks for the compliment, anon.

>>13927544
>What's wrong with Eastern religions?
Literally nothing. If you're this upset over schismatic politics then I would advise you to read more Orthodox theology. The ancient church was not intended to latch onto platonic theology or scholasticism. The use of western materialist thought just creates political agendas. This is not to say that there are valid tenants in Catholicism and Prtoestantism, but they are based on a legalistic mindset which, in my opinion, was never meant to exist.

>>13928011
>so much so that God willingly chose to take on the collective sins of all mankind
That He Himself made possible in the first place. Humans were created specifically to be abused and tortured for breaking the arbitrary law God knew would be broken in the first place. There's no way out of Omniscience.
The God in full knowledge and will made humans to suffer torment for breaking a rule (sinning) that God Himself made on purpose and in full knowledge of it will have being broken, to place by Himself the guilt that could be only atoned before Him by Himself sacrificing Himself to Himself as a punishment for a crime He Himself made possible and put onto humans in full foresight and will.
What a load of bullshit. "Free" as in free cheese in a mouse trap.

>>13927544
Religion, in the way you're using the term, is a western invention used to describe western bits of culture which only arose because of western history. It can only be approximately applied outside of that context.
I'm using the word "western" pretty loosely, since I'm obviously including Muslims in this. Although I'd argue our modern understanding of the term is particularly shaped by late 17th century-onwards liberals.

Eastern religions definitely strongly parallel western ones in many ways, including worship and usually belief in some sort of divinity, as well as something which is de facto faith (at least among the lay people). This is why people who try to argue that Buddhism or Confucianism are not religions are retarded. However, they don't have the epic philosophy/theology distinction western culture has, because they never had Socrates running around being an autist (nor did they have the Church desperately trying to incorporate Platonic teachings without incorporating Zeus and pederasty). So they naturally have philosophical inquiry jumbled with what we would call the theological, and that invites a level of fragmantation which the various Churches don't allow.

It's worth noting that while Confucianism, Daoism etc. were very much philosophical systems when they were first created, they ended up getting religion attached to them over time. This leads to weirdness where Confucius, despite making it absolutely clear that divine phenomena were uninteresting to him, becomes a religious figure; and where Daoism, despite being pretty much founded on the idea of anarchistic spontaneous action, becomes one of the most rule-constrained religions around.

Half of what I just said is reductive bullshit though. Thank you for reading, tomorrow I'm gonna ask my crush out and she'll probably say no. She scares me a lot. 再见

>>13927997
Arabs are a tiny portion of the middle east and Christianity very much subsumed it, in any case.
Besides which, we all know there is only one thing which determines the spread of religion, and that is the force of arms. Yes, even those peaceful religions were spread by force of arms, either through hypocrisy or trick of fate (see: Ashoka converting to Buddhism AFTER bloodily conquering the entire Indian subcontinent).

That's not what actual buddhism is like. Most of them believe that chanting some buddha's name is going to get them in nirvana.

>>13928207
Buddhism literally teaches that you should lie to the proles so that they're more likely to be reborn as the kinds of people who would become monks (who can learn the truth and become enlightened). What the plebs do isn't even supposed to be real Buddhism.
Although I take your point that maybe it should be considered the real Buddhism in reality.

>>13928176
Great analysis, anon. And I hope the situation with your crush goes well. :) Best of luck

>>13928145

Consider:

>>13928010

>>13928010
Yes, and?

>>13927544
There are mountains of writings from the church fathers and later theologians. Complaining about volume of writings is ridiculous.

>no mental gymnastics needed to understand doctrine of salvation (end goal to be reunited with God)
Christians can't even agree on why Jesus had to die and come back. It's mental gymnastics extraordinaire.

>>13927737
>>13927737
kek you are the one with surface level understanding of eastern doctrines as they are not religions in ANY way. Religion is the conglomeration of doctrinal elements*, rituals and moralism. The latter two are PURELY western, historically. The doctrinal elements of western religions are theological as well, which are metaphysics distorted through moralism once again.

>>13927581
Only partly true. The end goal is (in part and in a sense) the sanctification of the soul. Study and contemplation can be extremely helpful. For some, they are necessary.

>>13928247
It is a common story all along. A missionary goes to pagans to preach about Jeebuz with loads and loads of cursing at their extremely real gods and loads of mental gymnastics about Original Sin, Salvation, Atonement and gets beheaded for being a crazy dumbass. A second one comes in and says Jeebuz is like the uber tribal chief, son of the Sky God, and brings victories just like that Roman Constantine mega-tribal giga-chief, while the Old Gods are quietly rebranded as Saints. Many Deus Vults and Church Taxes ensue in a couple centuries. Whatever Christianity really is was hidden in the monastery libraries. In the early days the Church fathers would recite the whole of the Bible for the illiterate, would take like three days or so, but this was during the more urbanized and enlightened time of Rome.

Same with Buddhism. The 99% of locals believe whatever bullshit magics their ancestors always did, it's just that the Buddhist preacher left some cues for the more enlightened seekers to follow. To each their own, human spiritual diversity and such.

No dialects

>>13928604
FUCKING dialectICS

>>13928010
OK. This is still basically the dogma of every Christian church, denomination, cult and Bible readers club. Well, 99% of them alright. So "no true Christianity" is not quite applicable here.

>>13928588
What a nuanced understanding of history. That must be how it happened.

>>13928604
Wrong brainlet, Vedanta and Mahayana Buddhism make extensive use of dialectics

>>13928618
Pretty much how it happened here in Russia. And I'm not talking about the Twice-Believer princes who would have a Mass one day to go ride innawoods to pagan idols the very next day without blinking an eye, up till maybe XIV century.
I'm talking about the year of Our Lord 1902, "The Missionary Review" complaining that like 90% of peasants inna country mistake God the Father for Saint Nicholas (the Santa one), who was anyway basically Dazhdbog/Dagda/Freyr rebranded, the Giver-God (of gifts, harvests n shiet). Who of them two was the father of Jesus was probably beyond the theological education of a common peasant.
The villager priests would sometime go participate in literally fertility cults on Spring midnights as if it was a totally OK thing for a Christian priest to go dance inna fields an nights with naked frenzied bitches who would run in gangs with knives and poles murdering any man or animal witnessing them (iirc the men would go after them out of sight a couple hours later to do their part of the ritual, the details of this basically Witch Sabbath varied - the pervy onlookers would be stabbed to death and sacrificed by literally witches).
To think of it, the modern Coca Cola marketing basically doubles for the Indo-European Giver-God preachment. Why not, I'd pray to Santa erry day and night if I were an illiterate pleb 200 years ago.
Oh, and don't get me started on Perun the Thunder God rebranded as Saint Elias and local Slavs and Finns being so extremely fervent on praying to that pretty obscure saint by Greek standards.

The common Christians aren't that different from common Buddhist folk magic believers. Or, well, were. They now profess Scientistic Atheism, their Giver-God being SCIENCE and its priests SCIENTISTS. I fucking love science. Those who are an intellect tier above praying to Free Gibs Gods now can actually examine the Christian dogmas and see some real stupid shit there.
Can't say much about Christian Mysticism, not a practicioner nor a dabbler, but the Nu-Christianity offered now is just bleh.
I'm 99% sure this situation is perfectly mirrored to the East.

>>13927544
More complicated means there's something wrong with it? That might make sense if you have down syndrome or something

>>13928616
If you include all the dogmatic stuff, Christianity rapidly becomes very complicated

>>13927544
What are the core Christian beliefs?

>>13928877
This seems extremely anecdotal.

>>13928365
>There is no ritual and moralism in eastern religion

>>13927906
>The Vedic religion is long-long dead and no longer practiced.

How absolutely brain-dead can a person possibly be? While Vedic religion is no longer practiced as it was in 1500 BCE, its scripture and teachings transformed into what we today call Hinduism.

In fact, many rituals, chants and prayers contained within the Rigveda continue to be used. Of course, you'll just say, "Durrr, but is isn't exactly the same," because you're the kind of delusional nitwit who actually believes in god.

>>13929008
>This seems
When have seemings, do cross yourself tovarich.
The piece about peasants mistaking Saint Nicholas for God the Father is from the real journal called the Missionary Review published in Kiev by the Missionary division of the Russian Orthodox Church from 1896 until 1916, specifically from the number for February 1902.
Whatever modern Christianity is, it is a far cry from both the folk Christianity of the countryside, though perhaps not as distant from the city dwellers' beliefs. And wasn't qualitatevly different from your any Eastern mumbo-jumbo outside their ashram or madrasah or whatever.

>>13929108
>While Vedic religion is no longer practiced as it was in 1500 BCE, its scripture and teachings transformed into what we today call Hinduism.
>>13927715
>Hinduism predates Christianity by thousands of years
You Indians can't contain the same though in your head for long enough, can you.

>>13927544
Trying to read Hindu lore is a fucking nightmare
>this goddess is also partially a male aspect of these 2 gods and rules over 8 of the 900,000 poison seas of Hell/Asura
>and there are 300 more just like her/him

>>13929143
I was using the Rigveda as a benchmark. Vedic traditions, texts and oral histories, many of which feature the same deities present within the Ramayana and Mahabharata, date back even further.

Also,
>everyone who knows anything about Hinduism is Indian

>>13929161
lol

>>13929128
Pardon my conversationalism. If you're going to be pedantic about obscure data without any other supporting argument, you will really have to provide a link.

>>13929161
>yfw at the same time it's metaphysics align with both platonism and quantum physics and btfo all modern philosophy

>>13927544
>eastern religions: demands dedication by its followers as salvation is ultimately their own doing
>christianity: just make a mental note that Jesus died for your sins
There is literally no reason to be a Christian unless you're a mental midget and is content with remaining one

>>13927715
Poo in loo faggot

>>13929408
>you have to be Indian to have a basic awareness of the evolution of one of the world's largest religions and most important regions

>>13928011
>so much so that God willingly chose to take on the collective sins of all mankind, descend from heaven, die on a cross all this for our redemption, all of it for free.
Christian always saying things like these while thinking they've just said something insightful, deep and meaningful always makes me chuckle irl.
>huh, so you think Christianity is dumb?
>well here's this rehearsed line of christology that only stops being absolute nonsense if you've accepted literally 100% of the Christian dogmas
>christianity doesn't look so dumb now does it?!

>>13928975
Doctrine that emerged out of the first seven ecumenical councils

>>13929398
yeah i've never heard of a christian energy model of the universe or christian deep knowledge of human psychology

>>13928618
It is indeed how it happened in Tibet. Local Tibetan gods were rebranded under the Buddhist order. Proselytisers in China also employed many novel techniques to smoothen out the transition, including co-opting contemporary Daoist rhetoric to such an extent that the two were synthesised in the form of Chan (Zen).
>>13928877
Yeah

>>13927581
This. When I look at other religions I see nothing essential that christianity doesn't lack even if less pronounced in our own tradition, atleast in potential.

>>13927550
>>13927737
>>13927833
He's not wrong. Technical term (technical for you occidentals) is Sanatana Dharma.

I think I am unironically a Daoist.

>>13927550
Depends on the one in question.
Shinto is clearly a religion
Confucianism isn't

>>13927733
>no mental gymnastics to understand x
>WELL WHAT ABOUT Y DUDE? LOL
This is how you sound

>>13928088
ty based orthobro

>>13929324
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hapoднoe_хpиcтиaнcтвo
Take any one you want. Here's the best part from Belarus, it's western half basically pagan till century XIV and Polesye still full of Balto-Slavic pagans who knew fuck all about the outside world until like early XX century. This is the most hilarious quote from there:
>We believe that the Saint Nicholas is not only the most ancient of the saints, but perhaps the one above them all ... Saint Nicholas is "the God's successor" (!) and WHEN THE GOD WILL DIE (!!!), then Saint Nicholas will be "God-ing over" (бaгaвaць, "to do God's stuff", "be Bhagavan"), and nobody else but him". Note how Jesus doesn't even register for them. That's the shit the missionary departement of the Russian Orthodox Church had to put up with daily in XX century already, in places supposedly Christianized the year 988 already.

>>13929218
>Vedic traditions, texts and oral histories, many of which feature the same deities present within the Ramayana and Mahabharata, date back even further.
So does the Old Testament, its oldest parts written down by 1200BC or so. Written down from oral form dealing with entities, texts and histories from the Akkad and Sumer already. Things as old as the Proto-Indo-Europeans, things a couple millenia older than the Indo-Aryans.
Your point, again?

If you don't want to be called Poo, try not to behave like one.

You want the gist of Hinduism and Buddhism in a concise statement; There is no qualitative distinction between a soul and the rest of universe. Another way to put it would be that "subjectivity is a delusion" and everything is an expression of the universal will to existence.

>>13928877
Pretty much. Here in Finland people in some regions replaced in Väinämöinen with John the Baptist, although finnic oc version, it was knight John the Baptist was a warrior priest that killed evil witches.

>>13927544
Simple religion is for simple people anon.

>>13927550
t. brainlet

Buddhism suffers from many of the same problems as liberal mainline Christianity; no distinct voice, a lack of perceived authority, catering to the largest possible demographic, etc.

>>13932650
>https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hapoднoe_хpиcтиaнcтвo
I tried your link and there is nothing there for me?

>>13933047
Buddhism is personal and the goal is reached through ones own work so wtf does it matter? Liberal Christianity will collapse Christianity completely.

I don't see how liberal Buddhism could ever do the same to Buddhism.

>>13933218
You've got it backwards, in Christianity you can reach the end goal without monasticism, in Buddhism you can't, It's literally a religion for monks about monks.

>>13933230
*asceticism

>>13933230
>It's literally a religion for monks about monks
Not him but pic related.

>>13933230
Also you not being able to "do it" is basically core Christian teaching. Jesus sacrifice and grace does it, not you.

The liberalization of the Church of Sweden absolutely collapsed and destroyed it, just like basically any other western church. It will be the same for Catholicism whenever the pope gets to it, not only for laypeople but the entirety of the monastic communities will be fucked too.

I really don't see how the equivalent could happen to Buddhism. Christianity, it's purpose for being and its ethics/morals really depend on it having influence on society. It depends on muh Christendom. Buddhism doesn't and never have.

Since Western religions are Cucked or reduced to a LARP, we must tvrn Eastward for a religious experience.

>>13933279
As much as salvation (and all things) come from God, one must still actively participate in the process of sanctification by the act of Faith, which is fidelity to the will of God, lovingly obeyed, as a singular spiritual action which manifests itself in works. This process of sanctification is open to all, especially when a final purging of earthly desire is considered. Buddhism offers only gnossis, which is an inherently selfish destination achieved by selfish practice. The Christian monk practices prayer, self-denial, and solitude as a mortification of earthly desire in order to acquire virtue. For the Buddhist monk, these practices are virtuous in themselves. The Christian ascetic highlights the importance of good Kings and good art and the good living of ordinary life; the Buddhist ascetic is a criticism of art and commerce and politics. All Buddhists should be like the monks. Not all Christians are supposed to be contemplatives.

>>13933230
not quite. At least in Mahayana, you can become enlightened (free from suffering) without ever going forth as a monastic

If I went to local Hindu temple would I be laughed at? I truly feel that Shaivism is the only legitimate philosophy of life.

>>13933327
And turn a beautiful, living tradition into a Savitri Devi LARP? No thanks.

>>13933612
Yes.

>>13927755
>>13927759
>>13927763
>these posters that seem to be unaware that the term “Hinduism” was never once uttered before the late 19th century, and only then by a white man

>>13933531
>All Buddhists should be like the monks.
Not really. All Buddhist monks should be like Buddhist monks. Buddhism doesn't really try to take over literally every aspect of life when it appears in a new country. It just subsumes itself into the already existing cultures and religions. Which is why Tibetan, Burmese and Japanese Buddhism etc looks so differently. And it's also why even though Buddhism have existed in some eastern Asian countries for longer than how long Christianity has existed in a lot of European countries, yet the native folk faiths are still all very much still alive whereas the native faiths of Europe got outlawed pretty much the second the first king converted. Buddhism teaches people how to fully understand the nature of phenomena, and this can be done in monastery or when you're lighting a candle to some Shinto mountain spirit.

A Polish person adopting Zen doesn't make him more Japanese, it makes him more Polish.

>>13933853
The best part of this post is you choose Burma and Tibet where the native religion was wiped by Buddhism and Buddhism went on to literally take over the country.

>>13927544
I'm a practicing Risshu Buddhist, ask me anything.

>>13933941
>implying Tibetan Buddhism is not native shamanism + Buddhism
And if you think the native beliefs in Burma got wiped out then you haven't been there. And yes I specifically picked Burma because I knew you'd object to it since people think south East Asian Buddhist countries are some sort of Buddhist supremacy. Worship of Nats is probably of bigger importance than Buddhism for the average Burmese.

Bit weird that you objected to Tibetan Buddhism though. But if you're not convinced about south east Asia then just pick literally any other country, be it Vietnam, China or Korea etc etc

>>13933957
Why not based and redpilled Zen?

>>13927544
Talked to a christfag recently that said shit like "the bible is the single most written about/studied work in human history" didn't have the heart to tell him that Hinduism is about 2,000 years older than Judaism and that it probably has more writings altogether.

Guy also says shit like "the earth is young, there is actually no proof in the geological record for a 4.7 billion year old earth" that the "arth is about 6,000 years old and not enough time has passed for genetic evolution to take place" and that "all observed genetic mutation is detrimental and that there is no such thing as beneficial genetic mutation."

Holy fucking SHIT how do these people breathe with their heads buried so far up their own asses? I wanted to slap the shit out of this guy. But he was mostly a nice guy and I didn't want to be an asshole. Fuck, I have a collection of about a dozen fossils I could've shown to this guy to prove that he is so very fucking wrong.

>>13933853
What's the purpose of a religion that isn't total?

>>13933957
What is the gimmick of Risshu school?

>>13934294
I think you just proved yourself wrong? Hinduism is older and has more writings. So, each of those writings has been studied less, and has had less written about it. While hinduism has the age advantage, it does not have one singular veda which is the basis for all. Also, it's my understanding that the vedas are far less hypertextual than the books of the Bible, making each one more an individual work, than merely a part of a larger work. While each book of the bible is often treated on its own, none can really stand on its own; the Bible only makes sense as a singular work, not a bundling of works. The other stuff he was saying seems a bit much, but if you really want to be charitable, you should approach your opponent on his most favorable grounds, rather than seeking the least developed and least relevant points of difference.

>>13934401
The Bible is a recollection of history, of course it doesn't make sense to read individual books. You have to read it from Genesis to Revelations to get the whole picture

>>13934647
Right, so it's a singular work. Unlike the Vedas, which are each separate works. So the Bible is certainly more written about than any of the individual Vedas, if not all the Vedas together.

>>13931717

>real catholic man: let his wife go to church
>4channel larper: unironically reads theology

>>13935464
I thought only Trump could deliver scuzzings so nutrient-dense

>>13934294
>that it probably has more writings altogether.
It probably doesn't have more writing in the totality of history than what protestants in America alone have written in the last decade.

>>13928975
The Nicene Creed

I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

>>13927544
>literally thousands of books, scrolls, ancient texts
>thousands of interpretations and sects
>extremely convoluted that I don't think that 99% of its adherents understand it either
so christianity?

>>13927544
>I don't think that 99% of its adherents understand it either
>practice of religion is understanding text
practice path of a lay person can vary from very simple to complex

>>13936953
i bet you have a really tiny dick

>>13927544
>>13927726
>>13927756
>having an understanding of Christianity and theology in general this narrow
>not getting basic symbolism
Why do people insist on arguing about things they don't understand? Intelligence without culture is worse than no intelligence at all.

>>13928176
There's an easier way to go about it. The problem is that Eastern religions kinda coexist, which makes their philosophies more accessible and malleable.
In contrast, Christianity and ancient European religions are mutually exclusive, but, at the same time, Christianity acknowledges and incorporates some of their philosophy, if not all of it.

>>13937660
>Why do people insist on arguing about things they don't understand?
Like eastern religions in a christcuck digest? Because two can play this game.

If heathens can achieve salvation by living with Logos like the church fathers believed then what's the fucking point of anything else? Leaving the ignorant in their ignorance seems like the objectively moral course of action because they'll be incapable of committing Christian-specific sins.

>>13937879
It's not, tho. Christian virtue are different, in that Christianity encourages you to seek and banish the wicked, where as the Eastern ones are a bit more passive.

>>13937896
>not chimping out like a nigger is passive

>>13927544
Nothing. It's known we're more comprehensive, philosophical, liberal, intellectual and meaningful than the cults that originated in the middle east

>>13937896
That doesn't answer my question.

>>13928365
imagine being this retarded

>>13927755
>dying
as long as there are weak and poor people there will be a role for christianity and religion