/lit/ - Literature

I'm not American and I enjoyed it.

He's a Russian jew? Well that makes sense then.

Self-help isn't going to help at anything. All these books are pure shite.

>>13917802
I thought it was a fun read. But you have to be not autistic, if you take things like theory’s of hyperborea or antarctic palm trees not as object lessons but as baps real belief you are stupid. I do not allow.

>>13917802
The content is kinda fresh, even though it's poorly written.
It's edgy, but playful. Even the alt-right is too pious and WASPy for the most part.

>>13917875
>Self-help
I think you're in the wrong thread.

>>13917802
You fell for the meme. This book is shilled hard by glownigs.

>>13917802
It's just marketing.

>>13917802
He should have written it without the retarded antigrammatical babytalk schtick. Because I actually found it amusing and sometimes insightful, but couldn't get through it all because of this.

>The way of settled life is just this then: to break the youths from early age, to take the boys and caponize them physically, mentally and spiritually. This happens in the smallest tribes as well. When they become civilizations, they look much like Han China, or the sinkhole cities of the Aztecs, Babylonians, and others. You see here why people like Evola, Jung, Guenon and all their followers go the wrong way. There is only this: whether life is stunted and broken by a “tradition,” or whether it is one of the very few, the rare exception, that allows the ascent of life. As a rule, life is stunted and deformed by huemans. This is why huemans are disgusting as an animal, and must be overcome. This is the “free and primitive life” of the noble savage, this is the “matriarchy” that keeps its faith to nature in “sustainable” form.

He's essentially setting the stage for a revival of futurism, in the Italian sense

Pleb: filtered

>>13917936
ngl the marketing is really a thing of its own.

>>13917936
But it's not, he has some genuinely good ideas

>>13917802
>>13917936
This.

It's garbage but also a series of words assembled correctly enough that midwits flatter themselves for "getting it" so ofc people love it. Scam and a fad and a meme and anyone who reads it deserves to be ridiculed.

>>13919387
t. midwit

>>13917802
Can someone explain estoeric left twitter to me? Especially as it relates to this book. I keep hearing it's some highly ironic take on right-wing chan culture.

It's capital this capital that, but I can't definitively pin them as commies.

>>13919287
not one original idea

>>13919511
All politics that isn't Far-Right politics is pointless. I'm not memeing, anything that isn't far right is just rigid defense of consumerism and the status quo. Yes, even le eat the rich chud XD EPIC Communism is in practice a defense of the status quo.

>>13919540
alright, i'll bite: why do you think this?

>>13919540
What is far right then? Anti-egalitarianism? Race realism? Genuinely unsure, looking to get other's takes.

>>13919511
Nigga this is esoteric right if anything

Any even saying it's esoteric is a stretch. After Charlottesville the online alt-right splintered, and one of the pieces that came together was very fitness-focused, the Liftwaffe were a big component of this (though BAP didn't engage with them much). BAP was another, and his posts slowly began getting more and more like the character we see today. Eventually groups like Liftwaffe died off, but BAP remained.

That's not to suggest BAP was part of the Chartlottesville-era alt-right or something, but just to explain some of the context around the time his account appeared, just my 2c

>>13919567
This is what I'm looking for, thanks lad

>>13919558
race realism is certainly far right. Anti-egalitarianism less so, but it's heading in that direction

>>13919540
I agree with this to some extent, but I think "eating the rich" has room within the far-right, since the rich are generally subversive, degenerate and liberal.
>>13919558
The only true right wing is monarchy (just by definition, since the origin of the right and left wing paradigm came from the spacial division of monarchists and revolutionaries in French National Assembly way back way). Everything that isn't monarchical is either liberal, or a product of liberalism.

>>13919567
>>13919558
>>13919540
One more question: What role does capitalism play within the far right? Are an-caps actually far right?

>>13919579
Race-realism is a weird one. It is associated with the far right now but it wasn't always and is almost a different vector than normal politics. If Poland decides to go full commie but only for white Polish, what do you call that.

>>13919579
>race realism is certainly far right.
No, it isn't. Nationalism arose around the same time as liberalism. Empires/monarchies were always multicultural even though in most cases, racial differences were respected.

And anti-egalitarianism is literally the most basic premise of the Right. Without a hierarchical society organization, one can't even begin to form a right-wing government.

>>13919597
Then how do we categorize a society where egalitarianism is present but only for your in-group (e.g. whites only, blacks only, etc.)

Is anti-egalitarianism towards other groups enough to move the needle to the right?

>>13919584
>What role does capitalism play within the far right?
Capital in a true rightwing society is subjected to the needs of the aristocracy and religious community. It is therefore restricted along with the bourgeois merchant classes. Plato put merchants at the bottom of his social hierarchy and generally merchants were always heavily subjected to their military, political and spiritual superiors. The rightwing is not necessarily pro-capital. This is a bourgeois trick to get people into thinking that being a classical liberal is actually rightwing when it isn't.

>>13919554
Only Far Right politics is odious enough that it cannot be subsumed into Liberalism. It is literally the only political "sphere" (referring to the loose collective of thinkers and ideas) that Liberalism refuses to absorb and repurpose; this is for several reasons. Instead Liberalism seeks to explicitly obliterate it. As such, developments within it are the only developments that can possibly be anything other than defense of the status quo. This is why there is no "Far Left"; there is no Left period, except used as a term to describe Liberalism. The various Leftist movements of the 20th century proved Marxist philosophy and eschatology to be completely farcical. All that is left is the material affectations that the Left fought for. Unions are an example of this, as are things like higher wages, or the dissolution of borders. But these things are not actually impediments to Liberalism, they're merely the terrain the game is played on. Leftists will gladly work with Liberals if it means they get these things, and Liberals will gladly give them.

But things like the re-establishment of monarchy, the ending of freedom of the press, the reunion of church and state, expelling Jews (or any kind of ethnostate outside of Israel) are absolutely abhorrent to Liberalism because they cannot coexist within Liberalism. Liberalism is ultimately the subsumation of government power away from that which is best for people, towards that which is best for economic interests (NOT people as economic agents).

>>13919567
You're batty if you think Charlottesville was something special my dude. Fitness and the Far Right have been internet bedmates for over a decade.

>>13919617
Excellent, thanks for the response

>>13919609
>Is anti-egalitarianism towards other groups enough to move the needle to the right?
To some extent, but what you described just sounds like nationalism. Nationalism is of course more "right-wing" than the idea that all nations are one and equal. But the original Right sought to coordinate the actions of several groups of people under one political entity (see Rome, Greece, Ancient India, Ancient Persia). The tendency to build an empire is the tendency to subsume and coordinate many peoples who may differ ethnically to various degrees, not to prop up one hegemonically equal mass over another hegemonically equal mass.

>>13919620
These things (gassing Jews, ethnostates, etc) are explicitly for people for their benefit. They range from completely stupid to brilliant depending on your own personal opinions, but they cannot be integrated with Liberalism. Their adherents, being unable to be digested, must thus be eliminated. But therein gives them their freedom: Because they cannot be engaged with, they're free to continue their intellectual work unhindered. They can't apply it, of course, but they can still keep thinking (this is the entire point of Neoreaction).

In this sense, the Far Right is whatever Liberalism doesn't like. You can see this in people who will in one breath fume and seethe about how Climate Change (a meme about the necessity of making consumption more efficient) and in the next rant and rave about the destruction of the environment; they'll talk about how non-Whites need to be removed from White nations, and then mourn the fact that the Democratic Party was allowed to "fix" the Indians. This is ultimately what Liberals, who don't really "get" what the Right means when it talks about Nationalism (See >>13919597 for such a case), fall prey to: the Right isn't talking about Nationalism in the sense of forcing everyone in France to speak the same dialect, they've moved on. They're the only ones who can.

>>13919645
I'll give you a historical corollary of this phenomenon: In Rome, the Roman State absorbed dozens of religions into the Greco-Roman syncretic milieu. All of them agreed on certain things (implicitly). Their theologies were bent to Rome's will, and their interests were forced to align with Rome's. Meanwhile, Christians were literally burnt at the stake, but intellectually were left alone. The Romans didn't try to make the Christians think any special way, they just tried to make them stop being Christians. And in that time, the Christians were allowed to come up with all sorts of zany theology, unimpeded. Why? Rome found them abhorrent, and refused to engage with them, and in doing so gave them the freedom to expand their theology without having to bend it to Rome's will.

>>13919620
>The various Leftist movements of the 20th century proved Marxist philosophy and eschatology to be completely farcical.
Also, as far as Marxism goes, it is basically a fact that Anglophone countries can't be Communist, and the current period is dominated by the US. Even Americans who claim to be Communists don't understand Communism, it's just an ethical theory for them.

>>13917802
This isnt alt right dweeb

>>13919558
To sum up some of what I've said above, the tenets of the true Right are this:

1. A strong tendency towards hierarchy, within families, communities, nations, social classes, and ethnic groups; the peak of this hierarchy is the spiritual class and the military-political class, merchants and workers are at the bottom. This may result in mixed forms of government but more often than not it results in an aristocratic monarchy.
2. A heavy focus on spiritual/religious values, God (or also gods, depending on the country) is viewed as the centerpiece of the political framework.
3. A heavy focus on a healthy military class that embodies masculine energy and carries out the spiritual and political missions of the empire/monarchy.
4. Heavy focus on the organic unification of the governed masses, which requires people to follow their own nature and truly BE THEMSELVES (women must adhere to a womanly nature, warrior types must be warriors, people must follow their vocations, as is proper and just). No one explains this better than the Hindus with their concept of dharma.

So hierarchy, justice, and unity are the three tenets of the Right. If you want examples see Ancient Greece, Rome, Ancient India, Persia. For more modern examples, see 16th century Spain, the Holy Roman Empire, pre-Revolutionary Catholic France, some of the Muslim empires, etc.

>>13919689
That certainly helps, yes. The Anglo world definitely exemplifies what I'm describing: Unions run by Lawyers trying to maximize stock value for shareholders. As I said, the terrain the game is played on is irrelevant, the game is still played.

>>13919701
I think you can sum this up even further and just say that the Right wants what is best for people, as opposed to Liberalism which wants what is best for the economy (the entire point of the Magna Carta is to keep the King from hampering profits).

>>13919645
>In this sense, the Far Right is whatever Liberalism doesn't like.
Wrong. Liberals don't like communists (even though communism in many ways exaggerates liberalisms' tenets) and the Right isn't communist. So you're wrong just definitionally. Nationalism went HAND IN HAND with the advent of liberalism, this is just true historically.
>>13919701
This is what the true Right was historically. Anything else is liberal.

>>13919724
See >>13919645. I already discussed this.
>This is ultimately what Liberals, who don't really "get" what the Right means when it talks about Nationalism (See >>13919597 for such a case), fall prey to: the Right isn't talking about Nationalism in the sense of forcing everyone in France to speak the same dialect, they've moved on. They're the only ones who can.
Whatever definition you believe "Nationalism" had at whatever point in the 19th century that you choose is irrelevant, not only because of what I have, again, already discussed (the terrain the game is played on is irrelevant), but because the Right has moved past that. That's the entire point: the dogmatic need to defend the status quo boxes Liberalism into a very, VERY narrow range in which anything can be thought about. The Right exists outside of that, in every direction.

>>13919620
If you still believe in left and right you are a retard.
You were subsumed long ago.

>>13919740
Find me a store selling shirts with Hitler's face on them in a positive context. Go on, I'll wait.

(those weird Asian factory-fuckup boutiques don't count)

>>13919738
>but because the Right has moved past that.
You just don't get it. The true Right cannot move past anything, it is NORMATIVE and therefore its principles are unchanging and eternal. You just don't get it.

>>13919740
Left/right distinction still makes sense, but only if you use the original distinction (monarchists [right] vs revolutionaries [left]) made in the French National Assembly in the 18th century, otherwise it's meaningless. There is no right wing in the US for example. It was founded on liberalism and 99.99% of Americans are liberals except that small group of internet autists like me who would support a monarchical aristocracy.

It's pretty good for an audience immersed in Liberalism against their will. I particularly liked his explanation of homosexuality and faux-masculinity.

Holy shit why does this book trigger the marxshit snowflakes so much?

>>13919581
>I agree with this to some extent, but I think "eating the rich" has room within the far-right, since the rich are generally subversive, degenerate and liberal.
The far right believes in "eat the rich" in the sense that they want to get rid of the current people who make up the "rich" class. They're not opposed to the very idea of being rich, merely how it's unraveled itself in our current society.

>>13919785
The right wing finally adopted post-modernism and post-irony after realizing they had been completely drowned in it. Liberals want a monopoly on thinking outside the box.

>>13919792
I agree. I try to address that here >>13919701 and >>13919617.

>>13919694
Anything critical of trannies is alt right. If you start deconstructing Liberalism, that's downright backwoods kkk.

>>13919772
Monarchy isn't a good thing in itself, many were modern, especially the late ones. This is clear in all of the libertarian/urcapital types identifying with its methods.
You make a distinction with aristocracy, but the same question remains, which type?

>>13919745
Perhaps that has to do with war alliances? In either case, it is a very weak reason to still believe in half of a political system/society.

>>13919820
TERFs, other trannies, accelerationists, Jordan Peterson, primitivists.

>>13919851
All alt right, under American discourse.

>>13919806
I think a good addition to this, in order to incorporate the fascist question (is it left or right), is that fascism is the process of the creation of a right wing society. Fascism is ultimately nothing more than the German conquest of Rome taking place within the domestic politics of a nation. A new aristocracy formed from the mannerbund of the fascist party naturally rises to the top to rule as a privileged martial aristocracy. I think it could even be said that we saw the beginnings of this with the SS in Germany.

>>13919851
I never gave primitivists a thought in that regard. They're 100% incompatible, no?

>>13919862
I guess it depends on how you define the right, but there could be authoritarian primitivists. One of the main problems in primitivism is that it's still within the materialist process and tends towards the modern idea of leftism.

>>13919886
I think a primitivist would argue that they are the ultimate right because modern liberal and leftists states are only possible through post-industrial technology and primitivists seek to deny them the very means of creating these.

>>13919785
It completely takes them out of their safe zone and picks at Liberalism in ways they're either not prepared to defend against or unwilling to defend against. This goes right back to why Commies just can't wrap their heads around the fact that Nationalism means something different when used by the Right today than it did in the 1800s: taking them our of their intellectual Safe Space exposes subjects their beliefs to scrutiny they're simply not prepared for.

Remember, Neoreaction's slogan is literally "read old books", and according to the New York Times that is a crime that Moldbug should be executed for. Look far enough back or forward and Liberalism (Yes, if you're a "Communist" in the current year then you are in fact a liberal) and falls apart.

>>13919886
>>13919862
Yeah, but anything coming through or out of American discourse has to be made super faggy and dumbed down into something legible to Liberalism. This includes the alt-right. You're looking at best Americans larping as Americans from the 1960's, protesting integration and the Immigration Act.

>>13919914
>forward
This is critical. You can't attack Liberalism. It didn't defeat anything. You have to render it obsolete. Post-Liberalism.

>>13919899
Possibly, I was just going off the basis that most primitivists I am aware of are leftist. Although even they deal with being attacked as ecofascists from other leftists. Perhaps this is correct in some way and there is an inherent right-wing aspect to it, tradition being the obvious answer.

>>13919959
>Possibly, I was just going off the basis that most primitivists I am aware of are leftis
What? I've never even met a left wing primitivist, how does that even work? All of the primitivists I know are Kaczynskist ecofascists or deep ecology linkola-followers. I figured that's what you would be talking about since there's a lot of overlap between them and BAPists

>>13917884
please go back to twitter

>>13920112
>>>/r/eddit

>>13919540
I think I would have found this take absolutely laughable up until around early 2019, when it somehow transformed from laughably untrue to laughably true (enter clownworld meme- not funny, very stupid, somehow right on the nose)
It is absolutely true that being a communist is not only accepted, it's vogue and terribly non-subversive in our modern context. Being very right wing, religious or secular, is vehemently opposed by the status quo in basically all Western metropoli.

>>13920336
moldbug pointed this out 12 years ago and he can't have been the first

>>13920336
It's weird the number of people I've seen making this realization in the past year. I've been firmly on the far right since at least 2014 and for most of that time there was still some kind of (from my perspective false) hope and enthusiasm from the more academic portions of the left that they were still fighting the good fight. But we've crossed some kind of Rubicon in 2018/19 where all of the anti-establishment types that I know on the left who weren't complete retards have become entirely disillusioned with how things are going.

>>13920044
Name one.

>>13920388
There's thousands of them on Twitter, do you want me to start listing off Twitter handles? I've even seen Mike Ma's book posted on here recently, he's full on right wing death squad anprim. I wouldn't recommend his book though, I know him personally and he's creative but he's a complete moron. Anyway, how many of these retards do you want me to post? 10? 100?

>>13920412
kek, no
>Mike Ma
literally who
I mean an actual writer or some sign of a movement

>>13920364
I'm going to qualify my statement by saying it is not the people on the right that changed, but the world around them. 99% of the "right" remains hilarious stupid and incompetent- it just so happens that our hypermodern context has become so inherently preposterous and almost all other intellectual movements that attempted to wrangle it have reduced themselves to 100% stupidity. Everything else has fallen to the wayside and all we are left with are depressingly prosaic rightwing aphorisms by mere context of them being the least retarded thing going on.

I'm not saying right wing thought is inherently stupid or wrong, but I am saying it's only relevant because it's the last player in the game squaring up against our unnamable present.
Despite all this, I think BAP is unironically kind of great, so maybe why opinion isn't worth shit.

>>13917802
Unreadable how? There are a lot of references, maybe it's too high context for you, but hardly a difficult or long book.

>>13920433
Pic related is his book. Like I said it's slop but I think it's evidence that they're beginning to move into a creative stage. Other than the obvious Kaczynski memes, most of them are really big on Pentti Linkola, John Michael Greer, and Ellul.

>>13919584
the far right has contempt for ancaps and wants to leash big capital, seeing it as an enemy of the people when loosed.

>>13920468
Yeah, I'm aware there's some garbage twitter book.
Not saying they are wrong, but are they primitivists?

>>13920436
I think the thing with the 21st century right is that people generally don't move out of it once they enter it. Like there are a few "high profile" types who claim "oh wow I was a neo-nazi and now I'm not and I deradicalize them give me money" but when you look into these people it turns out they were always grifters asking for money, not true believers. Of course grifting is a giant problem on the right in general that nobody can seem to shake, mostly because the right is so devoid of elites and thought leaders right now that they're desperate for anyone. But I guess the best way to look at it is a snowballl; it never really seems to lose mass even if it's a long hill ahead before it's big enough to knock shit over. I get what you mean though, in addition to grifters, the right is infested with vapid attention whore thots and people who have low IQs and big mouths. BAP seems to be one of the genuine ones desu, and I think there's a slow but steady upwelling of thought leaders like him starting to appear.

How do you guys define the far-right?

>>13920482
Linkola is an absolute primitivist, more extreme than Ted K or Ellul. It's hard to succinctly give these people's thoughts justice by describing it here, but Linkola basically has 0 problem with killing billions of people to return society to a pre-industrial state. More than having no problem with it, he sees it as a necessity or we're basically all fucked from physical pollutions like ocean plastification and chemical smog.

Greer on the other hand is more of a black pill. He sees society as in the beginning stages of what he calls "catabolic collapse", where society will regress into a less and less complex form at an extremely slow pace because the energy necessary to both upkeep our infrastructure/economy and expand it is larger than what we're able put into it for a number of socio-political reasons. He sees primitivism as an inevitability and is more concerned with prepping people for the slow fall into it.

Ellul should go without saying, he's the original Ted K and essentially said everything that Ted K said years before Ted K said it, albeit in a much more academic and less accessible way for the layman.

>>13920508
There have been several posts in this thread defining it. Anti-democracy, generally pro-religion, pro-tradition, generally nationalist though often localist, race realist. In my mind, far-right is closer to what BAP sees it as: military rule.

>>13919049
>He's essentially setting the stage for a revival of futurism, in the Italian sense
this

Gives me vibes of the futurist manifesto except it's a romance of the past instead

>>13919540
>All politics that isn't Far-Right politics is pointless. I'm not memeing, anything that isn't far right is just rigid defense of consumerism and the status quo. Yes, even le eat the rich chud XD EPIC Communism is in practice a defense of the status quo.
Unironically this

There is not one truly serious or dissident worldview outside of the far-right in the current political sphere in real life or on the internet

>>13920468
That book is terrible and Mike Ma is a complete brainlet.

Bronze age mindset at least has a few interesting takes in it, Harassment Architecture is just shit besides the cool cover and some of the illustration

>>13920508
See >>13919701. Far-right is the normative politics of all the known ancient and great civilizations.

>>13920336
>It is absolutely true that being a communist is not only accepted
That's because communism in America has become mostly a LARP for entirely harmless college students.
Gone are the times of the Rosenberg, the Philby and the Armed Resistance Units.

>>13920348
>moldbug pointed this out 12 years ago and he can't have been the first
This has been a talking point among right-wing French intellectuals since at least the eighties.

>>13920927
Not all far-right is traditionalist or normative. It's more of a wrap-up term. And ancients way of functioning are so removed from us now that thinking of applying them to our world without massive changes would be outlandish.

>>13920954
>And ancients way of functioning are so removed from us now that thinking of applying them to our world without massive changes would be outlandish.
I agree with this.
>Not all far-right is traditionalist or normative.
To cede anything apart from that normative definition though is to give up the right/left dichotomy, which I think is actually valuable for modern politics since a lot of "far-right" politics are fairly syncretic and don't really have much meaning within the left-right paradigm established by the French National Assembly, nor with the neutered way Americans use it. I just wanted to delineate what the original right-wing was.

>>13920978
Fair enough. I was thinking of the revolutionary movements introduced by modernity that are often categorised as far-right (like Nazism and Fascism) but who can't really be analyzed as a return to an older form of society.

>>13920985
Fascism (as a phenomenon) is an elusive thing. As a term it's been severely abused by liberals to the point of essential meaninglessness. As a an actual political movement it is simultaneously "right wing" and revolutionary, it is hierarchical yet it usurps traditional hierarchies, it speaks of returning to tradition yet it prides itself on industry and technology, it historically presented itself as a median between communism and unfettered capitalism and yet today its labelled as the end-point of "rightism" whilst being accused of socialist state-capitalism by libertarians.

>>13919387
Lmao how did you manage to let BAP go completely over your head. Where can you even begin with such a stupid take.

>>13919558
Both of these

>>13920938
Once you realize the new deal government was full of Stalin sympathizers it's not a surprising development at all

>>13921387
Being a bugman

>>13921559
Yes, and pro-Soviet (later pro-Mao) enthusiasm was a common feature of the intellectual left for a very long time. Te fun thing is that now the French right-wing is falling under the exact same spell, sucking Putin's cock because he fulfills their authoritarian fantasies. Stendhal wrote in the 19th century that the Russian mimics the Frenchman, but with a 50 years delay. Now the opposite seems to be true, and the delay is only 10 years.

>>13917802
Haven’t read the book, but have listened to his podcasts. They’re mostly just rambling nonsense thinly veiled as right wing wisdom. All of his knowledge is just memes, random theories about looksmaxing, and politics. It’s like /pol/ and /fit/ had an autistic twitter child and the child now thinks it’s profound because it listened to classical music and learned some Indo-European history. His arguments are shallow and he talks like a retard - a “noble warrior” who speaks like a meme addicted baby.

Like I said, I admit I haven’t read it, but I have no desire to.

>>13919387
Agree. It’s nothing but white nationalist twitter memes with very shallow science and history sprinkled in to make it appear like there’s some wisdom in there. The midwits who inhale right wing twitter memes take it as profound because it has a couple scientific or historical facts and justifies ideas they like. The guy talks about noble warrior-esque bodybuilders in pursuit of liebenstraum, but talks like an autistic 12 year old on a bodybuilding.com forum. It’s a giant meme and people lap it up because it justifies their positions and online obsessions.

>>13920044
in what way is penti linkola far right? or right wing in any sense, other than just "not explicitly left wing"?

>>13920553
Okay thanks.

>>13919584
What a vague question, mr journalist

Some are, some aren't, same as the left

>>13919620
>You're batty if you think Charlottesville was something special my dude. Fitness and the Far Right have been internet bedmates for over a decade.

What argument do you think you're making here?

Charlottesville had nothing to do with fitness, it was a large collection of chubby guys in white polos - the the point that the Liftwaffe actually made a fitness program inspired by how fucking unfit everyone in those photos was, it was called Mobile, Agile, Hostile. Can't remember if it was any good though

>>13919287
>he has some genuinely good ideas
can you name one idea from the book that is his and good?

>>13922077
Slut Walks for Men
Larping as a warrior slaying thots
Take pics of your diet for twatter and insta
Instaphilosophy
Instaaesthetics
Be a glownig shill

>>13922090
none of these are his ideas though

>>13922100
Wrong again, BAP.

>>13922047
I was more so alluding to this bizarre obsession Liberals have with Charlottesville "meaning" something, as if anyone thought it was anything but a terrible idea (protests and rallies are victory laps, they don't cause anything).

Is there anything that critiques "Freedom" as the dumb buzzword it is?

>>13920927
>Far-right is the normative politics of all the known ancient and great civilizations.

Factually incorrect. Not a single one is. Homosexuality was rampant.

>>13922208
>this meme again

>>13917886
>poorly written
its creative larping writing, intentional irony, the equivalent of using a voice modulator to maintain anonymity. if uncle ted did the same thing he would never have been caught since he brother recognized his writing style. bap was recently interviewed by jack murphy and he picked up on the presentation as being fake. how do you brainlets not see this? bap even said those attaqing his work are forced to employ low iq humorlessness, making themselves look dumb, which is 10/10 trolling.

>>13922334
Why do you spend so much time on the computer, BAP

>>13917924
the book is explicitly anti-glownig and directly attaqs glownig tactics like hanging with richard spencer with a tiki torch. the fact the you are pretending "naming the glownigs" arent a major issue in the book makes you glow.

>>13922349
I am honored you think I'm bap. I believe I am starting to have a good idea who he actually is.

>>13919049
based

>futurism
dare I say, accelerationism?

>>13917802
Glad I'm not the only one thats too smart to understand what the fuck hes shitting onto the pages

>>13919662
What about Japan and Christians? They were brutal to Christians like Rome but Christianity never managed to flourish. Why did Japan mange to stamp out Christianity while Rome couldn’t? Was Japan just more brutal?

Is this because the Roman state had already gone from HIV to AIDS while Japan only had HIV and was able to actually destroy the virus?

>>13919540
>guys go radical and extreme
you may not want to glow so bright

>>13922379
because japs equated christianism with foreigners and japs didn´t like foreigners

also christianism was developed in the poorest areas of the empire so it´s easy to gain a nice sum of followers

>>13919558
anti-egalitarianism is the goal. I believe we cant shift it inside the overton window, especially if we sell reaction against egalitarianisms oppressive authoritarianism (authority to enforce equality, essentially anti-freedom)

>>13921624
correct. i cant believe it gets so much play.

>>13922390
Forgive me, but I thought Christianity flourished in the Eastern parts of Rome, the rich half? Or was it only in the poor parts of the East?

In regards to Japan, there were still Japanese converts before it was officially banned. Why didn’t they have the zeal to carry the fate on even if in secret?

>>13919584
capitalism accelerates. capital is by definition a positive feedback loop of money (power)

>>13922399
>Why didn’t they have the zeal to carry the fate on even if in secret?

different culture, me no god, me need state to live

>>13919620
>economic interests
But Adam Smith conceived his Wealth of Nations system out of his theory of moral sentiments? His end goal was still our moral development, but through economic means instead of spiritual means. Expanding the market economy extends the opportunity for all according to Smith.

>>13922404
And you believe the West is culturally linked enough to Rome that your analogy will replicate in the West? I ask because Spengler sees the West and Greco-Roman civilization as separate

>>13921574
I think Russia is still imitating the West with a delay that's perhaps longer now due to Communism. Some poster on here described Russia as "The West on minimum settings". Presumably French right-wingers project values they like onto Putin, this happens in the US as well. Meanwhile in Russia Church attendance is rather low, and they also have hate speech laws and nonexistent migration laws between themselves and Central Asia don't they?

>>13922432
>e Spengler sees the West and Greco-Roman civilization as separate

it his opinion, the greek nation is the birthplace of western civilization

>>13921624
>liebenstraum
I appreciate this spelling error because in your head you read leben as "lee-bin" and so correctly used the german "ie" as the ee sound. but leben is pronounced "lay-bin" like hegel (hay-gil) or weber (vay-bir)

>>13922480
What makes you say this?

>>13922480
>western civilization
this is not a thing for Spengler. Classical civilization(apollinian iirc) and Faustian(900ad-present in Western europe and diaspora) are separate things

IT'S HAPPENING

>>13922379
I'm >>13919662. You're falsely conflating two different things. Why the Pope and the Portuguese couldn't take over Japan and why the Romans couldn't eradicate Christianity are two different things.

I'll wrote more later, but tl;dr the situation was different but had they survived Japanese Christianity would have done what Greco-Roman Christianity did.

>>13923885
source?

>>13924049

https://newrepublic.com/article/155217/far-rights-apocalyptic-literary-canon

>>13922358
Who do you think he is? He's clearly someone fairly well connected in the belly of the beast.

>>13923553
they´re build upon each other

Greek>Roman>Western Europe (West Roman Empire) >Eastern Europe (Byzantine Empire)

after the WRE we had the Frankish Kingdom (which again later eventually formed nations like france and germany (holy roman empire), Ostrogothic Kingdom (italy), Visigothic Kingdom (spain and parts of portugal), etc......

byzantine empire with their orthodox religion and culture (absolutism) influenced several russian and balkan kingdoms, no wonder that even before the unification of russia (under the tzardom of russia), the duchy of moscow declare themselves as the third rome

although you can argue that the roman republic developed independently of greece (hence they should have their own label as civilization, different from the greeks) since they came into contact after many centuries later, but idk why Sprengler didn´t mind having double standards

>>13923905
Alright, so, Christianity didn't catch on among the Japanese for the same reason it didn't catch on among the Romans: it had nothing they wanted. Remember, Italy itself didn't start Christianizing in any seriouesness until Constantine came around: That's three hundred years. The people who caught onto Christianity very quick were Jews, followed by Semites, followed by miscellaneous Near Easterners, then Greeks. The Romans would actually be on the of the last groups to Christianize in the Roman Empire. The early converts were typically those who had the least to gain from the Roman system (remember, Augustine would have been hereditary nobility and the owner of large tracts of land had the Romans not conquered the meme """""""""empire"""""""" he was a son of).

Similarly, the Japanese converts were mostly the dregs of Japanese society who were promised favorable positions in the occupied colonial government after the Portuguese conquered Japan. The Japanese as a whole didn't see much in Christianity. This is the key difference between the two: there WERE serious Christian populations in Rome, there weren't in Japan. Many of these people were quite prominent, coming from the mercantile elite, landed aristocrats, military nobility, and the intellectual classes. Indeed, Rome's multicultural nature meant there were farm more people who were losers and looking for an alternative system: In Japan, pretty much everyone was Japanese, and pretty much everyone was benefiting from the system (in comparison to how they'd be under Portuguese rule), and people of importance were certainly better off NOT under Portuguese rule.

But when Christianity DID come around, when it became clear that to the Romans that the new system did benefit them, they converted in earnest (in fact they pretty much displaced the Semitic component of the clergy, something many Semitic Christian authors were very upset out).

>>13919837
Reinhardism of course

>>13917802
not garbage but not good either. only gets shilled because because of BAP physique. harassment architecture is a better use of your money

>>13919387
t. didn't get it

>>13924503
Harassment Architecture is unironically shit. Really badly written.

>>13924543
at least it isnt literal caveman speak and it gets its point across in more entertaining and effective ways. compare that to BAP book where the first 100 pages may as well be blank lmao

>>13924558
The "literal caveman" speak lasts for only the first 50 pages of the book, and it in absolute no way actually makes it fucking difficult to read- he literally just spells some words half phonetically (hueman) and throws in frog twitter slang once or twice a page. BAP denying Singapore even exists is infinitely more funny and effective in communicating his skepticism than any device Mike does. HA literally reads like my writing when I was 16 except way more edgy.

Barking at the Herd > Bronze Age Mindset > Harassment Architecture > Selfie Suicide

>>13924674
Barking at the Herd has absolutely retard-tier prose, it's middle school-tier. Finally, Some Good News and Bronze Age Mindset are the only meme books worth reading.

>>13924646
>denying singapore exists is funnier than the allcaps section of harassment architecture

I dont know what to tell you if you're being serious

Bap book seems almost detached and sterile at times. Ranting about whatever-edes greek dude as if it's anything but a LARP does not make for a good read. HA felt more genuine. Yeah maybe some of it sucked but the parts that hit really connected. Bap book never connected, it just meanders on until it finally ends.

>>13924674
Barking at the herd is bad. The obsession with mythology is the cringiest thing about the right, not even close

>>13925058
>Bap book seems almost detached and sterile at times.
Could you post an example or exert that's like that? I'm reading it now, on the 3rd part and I have not gotten that at all.

>>13922090
Eugenic breeding is outdated. Use genetic engineering bruh

>>13925058
>Bap book never connected
You do realize this is because you are bugman
He literally says in the opening of the book it's explicitly not for everyone

>>13925421
Imagine Kaczynski stopping 1/3 way through his manifesto and saying "by the way, if you disagree, YOU'RE GAY" and then taking that work seriously. The book doesn't connect because everything inside of it has already been said by more interesting and more intelligent people.

>>13925477
Your ghey. Post fazeek

>>13925477
Kaczynski was a tranny and a murderer but at least he didn't call his opposition "gay" right? now we know for sure that we can take him seriously!!

>>13925378
That's only in respect of capitalism, enfranchising the maximum amount of people as win-by-scale, despite a necessary lowering of quality.

>>13920927
Under Overton Window Liberalism, this is true.

>>13925517
lol

>>13924133
Not sure what youre getting at with the japanese. The portugese never took over, they never so much as had a tiny artificial island thats entrance and exit was heavily monitered by the Nip Empire. The Japs remained a closed country to any outside influence until around the time the Americans showed up, and thats when the heavy industrialization started, WWII etc.

>>13925477
>calling someone gay is worse than listening to the guy who bombed small business computer repairmen in an attempt to bring down the post-industrial economy
you're posting cringe my man

>>13922104
first time i read something based from BAP, maybe i'll have to even read it even though i'm not gay

>>13919837
but monarchy is eternal anon

In any group there’ll always be a person who’s the most “influential”. Out of all groups there’ll be a group who’s the most “influential”. And within that group there’ll be a person who’s the most “influential”, who’s the de facto Leader. Leadership is always demonstrated and thus can’t be elected, but there will always be a leader, whether as a formal position or not.
In all of human organisation, we would find an aristocracy, perhaps even a monarch, who are responsible for disciplining the intentional fields within which political practice is undertaken, regardless of the chosen mode of political organisation.

>>13917802
This book was written by a demoralized mind, trying to grasp the shadow of the glory of the ancient days and summon it back in misery.

>>13925631
>The portugese never took over
Right, that's the entire point of why Christianity flopped: it was just a vector for Portuguese conquest. That didn't pan out, so Christianity fizzled out.

I get the impression that the first 50 pages or so of BAM is specifically written so that people will stop reading it or not take it seriously. The use of frog twitter speak also announces to the initiated that he is one of them. A very basic if not effective form of obscuring his work from those it is not intended for.

>>13926668
Sounds like an excuse for saying 'if you don't like it, you just don't get it' because you aren't a member of frogtwitter.

That BAP bypasses the main issues facing the west and instead channels those sentiments into mundanity and now homoeroticism should tell people all they need to know.

>“In order to ascend into a higher state of being you must approach life and adversary in a dauntless fashion. Attaining glory can only be done when there are things that need to be overcome; being dauntless in the face of those things is the heroic and correct attitude. Fear is a double-edged sword, it can be used to your advantage or it can pacify you. The fear of losing can make you train and fight harder. The fear of ignorance can make you strive all the harder for the attainment of knowledge. The fear of being left without glory as the years pass by can fuel your transcendence into a legend.”

Buy The Golden Ones book for some real wisdom, trvefriends.

>>13926615
The japanese were closed to any outside influence tho. Not the chinese nor the mongols set foot. Its not that the nips werent open to religions, they wrestled around with shinto and buhdism plenty. They were just hostile to any visitors. It took american hegemony to pry them open. To say that nips didnt like christianity is kinda dishonest since they were hardly exposed to it.

>>13924674
Fuck off Doon

Barking at the Herd is a very very poor man's BAP Book

>>13922125
I'm on the right and thought it was fucking retarded at the time

Enoch & co. declared it a resounding success as I recall

>>13922090
Lol, what board was that?

BAPism is the best direction the right can take.

>>13927309
Same, shit had ciaspooks and shitshow written all over it.

>>13922465
That's possible. I still feel there's an issue of power. In Stendhal's time France was one of the foremost cultural and military powers and Russia was on the rise, so it wasn't unnatural for Russia to take from France. Now Russia is the former superpower with an outsize effect on some aspects of global culture, while France is a power trying to stay relevant. But you're probably right that a lot of it is projection, Putin is the closest thing we have to "le based authoritarian monarch", no matter how big of a misreading that must require.

Erdogan, amusingly, would also do the trick, but his rise to explicit authoritarianism is more recent and the right tend to dislike Muslims.

>>13926739
>Sounds like an excuse for saying 'if you don't like it, you just don't get it' because you aren't a member of frogtwitter.
Did you read what he said? Or do you just like to say stupid things? Fuck, he's not even the first person to say it in this thread. The beginning of the book is written in retard-speak with memes on purpose. You can tell this is on purpose by the fact that it gradually becomes less and less prevalent until the fourth section where he's actually fleshing out the ideas he brought up earlier and he's writing in standard English. You either didn't pay attention when you were reading it or you didn't read it, so why even make midwit posts like this?

>>13928183
You fantasize about BAP sodomizing you, don't you?

>>13925670
based

>>13927309
>>13927464
I thought it was hilarious. Remember that likely homosexual Asian Antifa type kid who was trying to guard the statue and saying things like "This is an army, they have an army!" "Where were you when few stood against many?!". I wish I could find the video, but Youtube buried it under all the official MSM programming. The whole thing was an exhibition of the futility of LARPing as a means to achieving tangible, real world, beneficial, results. No matter how much either side believed in their cause and proudly stood up for it, the fact of the matter is, neither side accomplished jack shit. Only the establishment and their lapdogs in the MSM benefited.

>>13928218
>if you don't mindlessly agree with the slander I say you're gay for the guy I'm slandering
Woah another midwit post, astonishing

>>13929603
BAP cult sodomite confirmed.

>>13929680
>if you don't mindlessly agree with the slander I say you're gay for the guy I'm slandering
Woah another midwit post, astonishing

>>13920348
>moldbug pointed this out 12 years ago
AIACC, an underrated catchphrase of his

>>13920336
>It is absolutely true that being a communist is not only accepted, it's vogue and terribly non-subversive in our modern context. Being very right wing, religious or secular, is vehemently opposed by the status quo in basically all Western metropoli.
bingo. the fact that there are people who still deny this boggles the mind.

>>13920553
>Greer
The Ecotechnic Future is required reading IMO. If accelerationism doesn't solve all our problems, then that books describes how things will play out.

>>13920938
>right-wing French intellectuals since at least the eighties
can you drop names? and have they been translated into English?

>>13930014
Not who you're replying to but I assume he's referring to people like Guillaume Faye and Alain de Benoist

>>13919701
>merchants and workers are at the bottom.
Oh brother, you are such a dumb nigger. Is this actually how you think vocational hierarchies worked?
>This may result in mixed forms of government but more often than not it results in an aristocratic monarchy.
>So hierarchy, justice, and unity are the three tenets of the Right. If you want examples see Ancient Greece,
Be more specific (you can't)
>Rome, Ancient India,
Be more specific (you can't)
>Persia.
Be more specific (you can't)
>For more modern examples, see 16th century Spain, the Holy Roman Empire, pre-Revolutionary Catholic France, some of the Muslim empires, etc.
Lmao you're a historically illiterate retard who has no idea what the fuck you are talking about. You literally listed some of the most trade and commerce depended political systems in history. Fucking Spain during the creation of the first globalized interconnected trade systems? German Hanseatic Jews? "Some" of the Muslim empires(how fucking vague) because you can't even name any is the closest rendition of your attempted LARP and even then it's not close. Why didn't you join isis? Kys

>>13930200
>he doesn't understand the social utility of myth

The affected broken English was distracting. At least have enough dedication to the bit to maintain it the whole way through. Suddenly the author's voice grasps proper English when the topic demands it. I interpret it as the author distancing himself from the work, a means of self-defense through ironic detachment. "You don't like my ideas? Well it's not like I care or anything... To think you took something that I, like, wrote bad on purpose so seriously. I can't even believe you fell for it!" We've seen this before, the punk band stands still on national TV and plays their song wrong. I am immune to your criticism!

>>13924087
I'm not that guy, but my theory is he's a writer from a very successful television show. Won't go any further, enjoying the game too much.

>>13931164
He's definitely got a writing background, but I do think he has a serious Bannon connection so maybe he's someone who transitioned into speech writing?