/lit/ - Literature

>>13912293
Small population and clunky language.

Because Van Warmerdam decided to stop writing novels

At least you have Spinoza and Huizinga

>>13912293
>when your German is too degenerate for you to be able to claim to be a part of the German literature sphere
must suck

t. Switzerland, part of the German literature sphere

This is the best book I ever read coming from you guys (in french translation though). Great modernist novel. Although I assume Claus is one of the only well known dutch fiction writers.

The culture didn't allow it. A nations culture in many ways starts with a genius, which his people then look up to. Shakespeare is an example of this. This will shape the culture in such a way that his art form is positively discriminated against, since its only natural that the nation will be more proud of a genius than an average artist. The Dutch may not have had literature, but you did have painters, and very good ones. You also had shipwrecking, which you were very good at. No nation (with the exception of maybe Italy) has geniuses in a large amount of different art forms.

>>13912308
I don't care about that. I need fiction and poetry.

>>13912303
I agree with the clunky language part, but our small population never stopped us from being big in things like art, science and sports.

>>13912316
Well you fucked up

Cuz all of you fuckers are too lazy to write anything genuinely good.
If you had any creativity and artistic inspiration, you'd have already made your country world-relevant in the field of literature.
Don't wait for somebody else to make something you want.

>>13912327
>Cuz
stopped reading right there.

>>13912313
This deterministic stuff sounds like bullshit.
Anybody who wants to write a novel and has both a pencil and paper can write the world's best novel if they feel like it. It's just a matter of effort, nothing else.

>>13912293
Now that I think about, it the Netherlands lacks in composers too. There's Sweelinck and...?

>>13912322
How is your country big in art?

>>13912327
you really gonna call us shit at art when one of the greatest painters are from this country?

>>13912334
>just write a masterpiece bro
It doesn't work like that, all evidence points the other way

Besides Bosch and van Gogh, what other artists do you have (in music, cinema, literature, etc)?

Dutch people are very conformist and calvinistic. When something happens to be decent it gets labeled "onhollands goed/so good it's undutch".
When people try to produce something unique it always ends up being a misreading of something America did last century

>>13912344
>Who is Van Gogh
>Who is Rembrandt
>Who is Jan Steen
>Who is Johannes Vermeer

>Inb4 >modern art

Dutch lit is underground. Keep it that way.

>>13912347
FUCKIN try it. You can't say whether or not it's impossible unless you and every single Dutch person were to have actually tried it.

>>13912308
Spinoza was a kike.

>>13912354
>When something happens to be decent it gets labeled "onhollands goed/so good it's undutch".
is this true??

>>13912364
It's not like Dutch people haven't written anything at all, it just hasn't been as excellent as other nations writers. I'm sure there is a lot of noteworthy Dutch literature

>>13912366
Even other jews hated based Spinoza.

>>13912366
a Dutch kike*

>>13912351
>cinema
>art

>>13912374
For different reasons than why whites should.

>>13912375
A kike is a kike is a kike.

>>13912366
the dutch are the true kikes

>>13912376
It's already considered one since many decades ago and there's nothing you can do about it.

>>13912375
he was a portugese kike that didn't even write in dutch

>>13912367
Yeah
>Doe maar normaal dat is al gek genoeg
We're the opposite of the French

>>13912398
portuguese*

>>13912398
A Portuguese Jew that wrote in Latin and lived in Amsterdam.

>>13912403
The fact that that's the closest you got to having a great writer makes it even more depressing.

>>13912371
>it just hasn't been as excellent as other nations writers
Taste is purely subjective, so do not assume that anybody will necessarily have to accept that Dutch writers are somehow all inferior to those of other countries, 'cus that'd just be acting like a subservient cuck who prefers foreign cultures over their own.

>Taste is purely subjective

>>13912387
One of the many who have unwittingly fallen for the grift of the kike: pretend to be host then manipulate it into carrying out the merchant-imperial fantasies of your sociopathic desert race.

>>13912409
That's not the closest the Dutch have gotten, and as has been said, Spinoza was a kike, not Dutch. That said, smaller subcultures of Germanics evolved in more conformist societies and are therefore less creative than other groups of whites. Same situation with Scandinavian countries. Even the good works are more serious, dry, and rigid.

>>13912446
protestantism kills creativity

I can write the next Dutch masterpiece. If only I lived there and had weed.

*blocks your path*

>>13912450
Has nothing to do with that. Creativity is genetic and varies between races. Dutch are still infinitely more creative than any non-white race even if less so compared to other white groups.

>>13912446
What's the closest then? Wikipedia lists him as Dutch.

>>13912351
>Rembrandt
>Munch
>van Eyck
>Vermeer
What the fuck is HAPPENING with this place

>>13912366
So dutch?

>>13912484
>Dutch are still infinitely more creative than any non-white race even if less so compared to other white groups.
East Asians and Latin Americans are objective more creative than the Dutch.

>>13912488
Munch was Norwegian you stupid nigger.

>>13912488
>Munch
Was Norwegian.

>>13912486
Cats for one. Jews gain power and influence by blending in with the host. Dutch refers to a people, a people who aren't parasitic middle eastern nomads, but a specific people from a specific place. Doesn't matter what Wikipedia says.

dutch isnt really the language to write good literature in

>>13912327
>Flemish primitives
>Cradle of rennaissance music
>Breathtaking Gothic architecture
>Jeroen Bosch
>Van Gogh
>''If you had any creativity and artistic inspiration...''

>>13912293
You gave the world the Statenvertaling, the Belgic Confession, and the Canons of Dort.
Your people did more for the world than most.

>>13912495
East Asians are the least creative people alive, ant people. And the "Latin Americans" you're referring to are the descendants of Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian settlers.

>>13912293

at least you have vermeer

>>13912293

>jews
>muh sex
>muh jews again
>more sex [insert fetish]
>drugs

Yes! Yes! The amsterdam snob elite snivels their own farts and toss out another series nobody reads.

Only good book is Montyn. SS vs Commie battle scenes in Koerland and Konigsberg. Very based

>>13912537
cope nedercuck

>>13912537
The Chinese literally invented gunpowder, ink and paper. Japanese art is easily top 5 in verious categories.

Anne Frank is pretty popular.

>>13912344
>t. american

>>13912495
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Golden_Age

>>13912550
>Japanese art
tell me, in what category is Japanese art even good apart from noise music?

>>13912532
I ain't talking about Dutchmen who lived hundreds of years ago. I'm talking about YOU, Anon. Yes, you, that person on the other side of the screen wasting his time on 4chan today.
If you wanna make the Netherlands a country with a rich literary culture, write something right now. Don't just depend on your fellow countrymen's historical legacy. They're just people who happened to have been born in the same territory as you. So be a great writer or don't be onet. That's YOUR decision.
If you believe otherwise, you're just a lazy entitled fuck.

WHY DON'T YOU FAGGOTS JUST PEAK FUCKING GERMAN??? WHY DID YOU HAVE TO CREATE YOUR NIGGER TIER AUTISTIC UGLY VARIANT?? WHY?

>>13912550
Those things were most likely introduced by Indo-Europeans during the early migrations, but even if I were to grant you that, they never did anything with it. Whites are responsible for 97% of all scientific and technological innovation.

>>13912548

Hes right you know.
Now back to your snackbar Li Bing

>>13912550

Yeah very impressive powder. 1000 years of no technological process follows.
Roundeye comes along, sees it, and returns with steel dreadnoughts and machine guns.

>>13912570
This is what in Brazil they call "ejaculating with another man's dick."

>>13912553

Sorry that term is not politically correct anymore. 'Fraid I have to report you for racism outside /pol/

>>13912581
cope nedercuck

>>13912569
Don't blame people for stuff they were not free to pick. Blame them instead for stuff they were free to do or not do.

>>13912591

Cope asian dicklet cuck

I just know of Multatuli

>>13912581
bek dicht debiel
>>>/dewinkelvansinkel/

>>13912569
Krauts are more autistic. It's understandable why they decided to create their own variant.

>>13912596
nice projection nedercuck

>>13912591
>>13912596
Unless either one of you are, on your own right, world famous and succesful artists/writers/scientists, both of you are coping faggots who've got nothing to brag about.

>>13912604
Maybe, but it's even shittier. German is the strong proud father. Dutch is the retarded bastard son.

>>13912605
i am here to bait and trigger duchies,let me have fun man

>>13912611
No, fuck off and go make something sublime. Otherwise, you've got nothing to talk about or even bait people with.

>>13912620
nope

>>13912562
Animated films, orchestral compositions, architecture.

>>13912344
moron

>>13912562
what is avant garde anti-fashion movement

>>13912639
>architecture
No.. just no. Compared to whites the east asians have really mediocre architecture, and amongst east asians several countries rank higher. Off the top of my head, China and Thailand

>>13912418
Taste is indeed subjective. Artistic merit is objective.

>>13912550
>verious
.____.

>>13912662
But we were comparing them with the Dutch, not the whites as a whole. Don't ejeculate with another man's penis.

>>13912671
Typo. Big fingers. Small phone screen. The A key is close to the E key.

>>13912552
I'm not at all american. My country maybe have a shit culture, but at least I'm not that much cucked. Van Gogh, Sweelinck, some of your "big artists" cucked you for France.

>>13912688
Hemingway and Fitzgerald cucked America for France as well.

>>13912293
Your country is Germans with uglier language stripped of their idealism. I hope it helps you understand why Dutch literature effectively doesn't exist.

>>13912683
>phone
oof

>>13912703
I'm commuting, lad.

>>13912293
its not, there is just no real online discussion about it.

>>13912694
Of course America is cucked as well. I don't see how that matters.

>>13912710
Because it proves that that is irrelevant. Lots of artists have gone to France.

>>13912521
No, instead a people who are parasitic germanic swamp-dwelling barbarians

>>13912476
based

>>13912293
For such a small population we have some pretty based painters, inventors, comic creators.
Most of the good dutch lit is from the late 20th to 21th. it needs time spread.
the flemings have a great contemporary lit scene growing, give it time.

>>13912724
That's what make France big in art.
I don't see how you can be proud of an artist because he is from your country if he has cucked it for France.
Czech shouldn't consider Kundera as a Czech writer, nor should Romanians consider Cioran as a Romanian writer.

>>13912797
Is Dali and Picasso french?

>>13912797
Petty perspective. Whites are one family and need to start acting like it since we're all currently vassals of zog and being invaded by mud bloods.

>>13912788
Hergé is Belgian, so not sure why you post Tintin.

>>13912797
>Czech shouldn't consider Kundera as a Czech writer, nor should Romanians consider Cioran as a Romanian writer.
Thats fundamentally different. Pictorial art has no language.

>>13912841
cringe

What flag is that? Brazil?

>>13912906
India, I think.

>>13912797
Right. Hemingway, the Franco-Spanish-Cuban writer.

>>13912906
its france retard

>>13912293
I can relate
T. Lithuanian

>>13912841
>Petty perspective. Whites are one family and need to start acting like it since we're all currently vassals of zog and being invaded by mud bloods.
cringe
>t.american

Despite being extremely mediocre Dutch people are always completely full of themselves? Any idea why?

>>13912293
Not to diss or anything, but Dutch language is just plain ugly.

>>13912344
'Murrica!

>>13912895
Van Gogh published a large part his paintings under french names. I agree that's different, but Van Gogh still cucked Netherlands, though not as much as an author from another country who wrote in French.

im sure you guys have some good books
its just that nobody wants to read your god awful language, it sounds like danish but somehow even more retarded

>>13912356
>>13912552
>>13912655
>>13913062
they don't have a whole lot compared to france or germany desu. Van gogh created art hoe culture though, so I'll give you that.

>>13912316
I like Cees Nooteboom!

>>13913628
well yes but you're comparing a small country that only had 1 relevant city to 2 of the biggest (former) empires

>>13913628
the only reason netherlands is a seperate nation is because their accent is so retarded no german union wanted them after the HRE.
They are as impactful and big even GDP as NRW which is a single state in Germany

>>13913673
OP literally said that their small population doesn't excuse it.

>>13913706
>Artificial countries out here chatting shit about an actual real country
Fucking lmao, Germany is literally Africa after imperialism tier. Just a bunch of duchies and small kingdoms united for the sake of it. We have coffeeshops older than your """country""".

>>13913706
richer than you, Fritz

>>13913769
Is that from 1919?
>>13913729
>t. Irrelevant nation if it werent for the way it whores itself out : taxes for corps, drugs, whores, port for rest of europe

>>13913784
we're literally a superior version of you lmao, all the data is online
also;
>average IQ germoid: 100
>average IQ netherCHAD: 102

>olympic gold medal per capita germany: 256,523 (OH NONONONONO)
>olympic gold medal per capita netherlands: 128,705

forever in our shadows

>>13913784
Massive cope yikes.

>>13913801
>nederfags have higher IQ
>still can't write great literature
really makes you think

>>13912293
because Orange is like the ugliest color ever to base the identity of an entire nation on

>>13913829
Need all that brain power working on ways to keep our country from flooding.

>>13913829
As was said earlier, literary ability is about creativity first and foremost. At the high end are Celts, Gauls, and yes even Anglos. Normans, despite being a Germanic people, are good at literature because they're good at everything and because they've mixed with more creative populations. Germanics are a little too conformist and rigid, so it stifles their creativity, which is why their literary culture mostly revolves around serious, system-building philosophy. No population of non-whites has the creative faculties to write good literature at all though, so despite the Dutch and to extent Germanic peoples' seeming deficit in this regard, they're still way ahead of any non-white population.

>>13913865
>No population of non-whites has the creative faculties to write good literature at all though
Categorically false. Good literature has come from the Middle East, Latin America, and Asia. And way better than Dutch one.
>so despite the Dutch and to extent Germanic peoples' seeming deficit in this regard, they're still way ahead of any non-white population.
You wish. Something something another man's penis. The Dutch haven't produced great literature. Their country is a literary wasteland and all the coping in the world won't make a fucking difference.

France = français
Portugal = portugais
España = español
America = American
Netherlands = ?Dutch?

>>13913936
>España = español
Wrong. Spaniards call their main language "Castellano" (Castillian). There are many Spanish languages in Spain. Only Hispanic Americans call it "español".
>America = American
It's called English.

>>13913919
>Good literature has come from the Middle East, Latin America, and Asia
Definitely not from any native or semitic population residing in those places. The Middle East contains a lot people with Aryan admixture, and every writer worth reading from Latin America is of European stock. Asians are the least creative people on the planet so quality literature is nonexistent.

Your bitterness makes you sound like a nonwhite. If that is the case we're going to have to ask you to leave.

>>13913865
>No population of non-whites has the creative faculties to write good literature at all though, so despite the Dutch and to extent Germanic peoples' seeming deficit in this regard, they're still way ahead of any non-white population.
YIKES

>>13913936
>portugais
You obviously heard a portuguese man saying this, yet it does not spare you from the fact you're wrong and dumb

>>13913865
>No population of non-whites has the creative faculties to write good literature at all though, so despite the Dutch and to extent Germanic peoples' seeming deficit in this regard, they're still way ahead of any non-white population.

god what a take. At least get involved with foreign /lit/ before you start sucking your own cock this hard.

>>13913960
>Definitely not from any native or semitic population residing in those places.
Yeah, definitely from native populations.
>The Middle East contains a lot people with Aryan admixture
Not in the way that you and the Nazis mean.
> and every writer worth reading from Latin America is of European stock.
Lots of mixed writers worth reading from LA.
>Asians are the least creative people on the planet so quality literature is nonexistent.
Yet you're whining like a faggot on an anime website. Beautifully ironic.
>Your bitterness makes you sound like a nonwhite. If that is the case we're going to have to ask you to leave.
kek SEETHING

>>13913960
I let the bait go after this one, if you trolled a bit less harder maybe I'd have gotten mad

>>13913980
Cope harder, shitskin.

>>13913997
Try to come to grips with the fact that you are of a lower race that has never accomplished anything, let alone produced anything worthwhile in the realm of white high art. It's not anyone else's fault, that just how nature works, and the sooner you come to grips with that the less delusional you'll be.

>>13914006
No troll here. It's evident and backed up by history. In other words: the truth.

>>13914096
>Try to come to grips with the fact that you are of a lower race that has never accomplished anything, let alone produced anything worthwhile in the realm of white high art.
My race has created better literary works than you nederfags in your entire existence. Masterpieces even. Daily reminder that the whole pack of you is nothing but a nonentity within the European realm and terribly mediocre and forgettable in the world at large. You are the niggers of Europe. Keep living under the shadow and achievements of much greater European nations like the irrelevant dog that you are. And then cope some more, faggot, for mediocrity has installed itself indefinitely in your pathetic Niggerlands.

>>13914137
I'm not Dutch. But what race would that be?

>>13914192
The human race. Mediterraneans and such.

>>13914199
>and such
LOL. Fucking shitskins.

>>13914307
cope

>>13914358
Yeah, I'm the one coping because my genetic composition is 0% "and such" unlike yours. Hit the road, mudblood.

>>13914411
What an achievement bro, you should pile it up with the massive mountain of your literary works. Giga cope.

>>13912293
my theory is that the language itself is given very little weight by the dutch themselves. instead of demanding others to speak dutch, we almost always use theirs (english, french, german, etc) which is a great trading strategy but it hampers the development of literature and poetry somewhat. you see this back in the fact that a disproportionately large part of dutch literature comes from belgium, where they take a bit more pride in their language

>>13913936
>America = American

>>13912364
shut up pedant

Thoughts on The Evenigs? My first Dutch book but I'm liking it a lot so far. I like how the main character brings up dark humour every now and then.

Het komt allemaal door de Walen. Wat Waals is, vals is

>>13916218
cringe

>>13916222

Ineenkrimp

>>13915648
Yea we flemings are way more conservative with our language.
>flemish survived a 100 years of forced frenchification.
>it will survive the current anglofication of the world.

>>13916493
>Flemish
>Language
I'd agree with Bruges maybe because that just sounds completely different but everything else is Dutch.
Its like saying American is a language.

>>13912334
you need experienced people teaching you crafts or else finding out everything by yourself will take too much time to advance to an advanced level

platte seks

>>13912293
Omdat nederlanders alleen maar aan shekkels kunnen denken
Commercie en kunst gaan totaal niet samen

>>13916680
Well I was talking about the flemish accent wich is part of the dutch language.
but I geuss you wanne go down the semantix route.

>>13912293
you get to be tall, handsome and rich stop complaining you ungrateful shit

>>13912322
Literature is art.

>>13918165
This, same reason why Nordcucks can't write, they have never suffered.

>>13918165
h-haha yeah good thing im definitely a-a-all three of those.. :)

>>13918547
you mean a-a-autistic?

>>13912605

I got a big dutch dick though

>>13912293
There are plenty of good books by Dutch and Flemish authors, but the Dutch don't appreciate them enough themselves. Sure, the literature is not as good as that of other (major) countries, but calling it shit goes a bit too far. Some good classics:


Multatuli, Max Havelaar
W.F. Hermans, Nooit meer slapen, De Donkere Kamer van Damokles
Louis Couperus, Van oude menschen, de dingen die voorbijgaan
Joost van den Vondel, Lucifer
Louis Paul Boon, De Kapellekensbaan
Hugo Claus, Het verdriet van België
Harry Mulisch, De ontdekking van de hemel
E. du Perron, Het land van herkomst
F. Bordewijk, Karakter, Bint
Willem Elsschot, Lijmen, Het been, Villa des Roses
Gerard Reve, De Avonden, Nader tot U
Nescio, De Uitvreter, Titaantjes etc.
Marcellus Emants, Een nagelaten bekentenis

a culture of shitposters

no shame is just doing what you do best, which in your case is cleaning herring.

>>13913028
GEKOLONISEERD

>>13913829
>really makes you think
Germans a little harder than the Dutch ;^)

>>13913865
>No population of non-whites has the creative faculties to write good literature at all though, so despite the Dutch and to extent Germanic peoples' seeming deficit in this regard, they're still way ahead of any non-white population.
t. amerimutt obsession

>>13918688
gebaseerd

all these seething nedercucks lmao

>>13918591
so basically nigger

>Dutch literature thread
>Van Gogh's letters don't get a single mention
every fucking time, /lit/ is pathetic

The Hague ia a pretty cool capitial name

>>13912334
Wrong. The culture of your nation is always your best teacher. Without models to match there is no high culture.

>>13912312
he was belgian anon...

but yes claus was brilliant

>>13918680
very based picks

>>13912308
Spinoza wrote in Latin, retard.

>>13912351
>cinema
this pleb doesn't know about dick maas

>>13918680
>Harry Mulisch, De ontdekking van de hemel
S H I T

>>13912409
As a Portuguese, Spinoza was the closest thing we ever had to a great philosopher so it's kinda sad for us as well

>>13912293
Harry Mulisch is bretty good, man.
Dutch literature isn't half-bad. We also have Max Havelaar and if you're a trumpshit you might like Leon de Winter, too.

>>13912476
groep drie ;0
>>13912788
tintin extremely based, it's why i've grown up right

>>13912293
soulless swamp jews

>>13922407
Leon de Winter is based and redpilled and so is his instathot daughter

>>13922455
calm down belgium boy

>>13922508
>based and redpilled
>Most of de Winter's works feature protagonists searching—in particular, for a Jewish identity
Clearly...

Dutch writers are often pessimistic/realistic and don't overcomplicate

>>13922579
artistic licence
besides, even Hitler himself was searching for jewish identities throughout his life

>>13922658

>>13912797
Is this what Fr*gs tell themselves to make up for the fact that 90% of all French "art" is pure trash?

>>13912356
Even with modern art you have Mondrian and Escher

>>13916680
Flemish is simply Dutch that exists in constant opposition to those dirty fucking Waloons, there is nothing heroic about about Nederlands Dutch. It also sound way nicer.
That said it's a dialect not a language.