/lit/ - Literature

his advice is good for people who aren't mentally ill and don't even need the advice in the first place.

>>13874560
And is it such a shock that people who can't live up to these expectations snap and go crazy?

>>13874560
No, it's not.

It's stock "be a normie" advice that clearly doesn't work even though it sounds like it should. Family doesn't help you, a wife doesn't help you, a career doesn't help you. It's all brainlet tier, surface level coping sold to you by entertainment conglomerates.

"The family unit" was sold to you.

>>13874570
it doesn't help mentally ill people, I agree, in fact crazies should steer far away from starting a family and having children. I should know, my father is bipolar and made my childhood hell, not making the same mistake as him.

good day. hopefully ben shapiro is next.

>>13874540
>marry highschool sweet heart
>decades later she gets cancer
>you get severe anxiety
>take anxiety meds to cope, not working, go to rehab
>teens on 4chan laugh at you

Not a fan of Jordan P, as he is a lukewarm thinker, but you guys are really pathetic.

>>13874540
Well, he always said he was in favor of using drugs your doc prescribed you, and in seeking help when ur fuckt. Can't really say there's some inconsistency here.

>>13874599
He married her after she went through miles of cock probably

>>13874607
Yeah, his.

>>13874599
to be fair, he tried to quite klonopin cold turkey, then, according to his daughter, was shocked by the consequences of withdraw; isn't Peterson a clinical fucking psychologist? he's probably prescribed klonopin before, how was he unaware of the dependency? hard to imagine what sort of mindset he must have been in to forget that klonopin is a benzo lmao

>>13874607
cope

>>13874580
>it doesn't help mentally ill people,
They're not mentally ill, society just doesn't provide what you need like you seem to believe. No one is happy in their job, no one is happy with their life, everyone is a miserable, stress addled mess.

>>13874599
Boo hoo. He is responsible for the reputation he has given himself as a tradcon center-right "voice of reason". Whether he actually agrees with those political perspectives is irrelevant, because he tarries favor with the right.

>>13874616
Psychologists can't prescribe medications. Only psychiatrists. "Clinical psychologist" means nothing regarding medication.

>>13874604
>he always said he was in favor of using drugs your doc prescribed you
So he's just a fucking moron then, not a hypocrite spouting pleasantries for other morons.

>>13874615
Nope. He didn't see her for years before they got married. No wonder he tells men to marry used up cumrags, that's what he did.

>>13874618
Anon I’m fairly happy with my life

>>13874616
psychologists can't prescribe anything, they aren't real doctors, you're thinking of psychiatrists.

>>13874540

>develops addiction
>realises he has a problem and goes to rehab to fix it

I don't see how this would contradict anything written in a self-help book and I doubt he ever claimed to be flawless

>>13874622
Yes he's obviously a libshit without strong convictions, but laughing at his misery is pathetic. Only homos would do that.

>>13874639
I'm a homo and wouldn't do that.

>>13874639
Yes, I wish him well on his journey to recovery. I just hope he gets out of the public eye and maybe sticks to writing his books and drowning in wealth. That, I can abide.

>>13874629
Because you're 18 and know nothing of real life, be quiet.

>>13874638
>I don't see how this would contradict anything written in a self-help book
>develops addiction
Really faggot? If his teachings worked he wouldn't need drugs.

>>13874626
>>13874632
why would they give someone who isn't a doctor a clinic? what sort of crock is that

>>13874540
Now I fucking hate this charlatan and think that in a just world he would have been stoned as a witch or something, BUT hear me out for a second.
All these lefties fucking rejoicing and gloating like fat disgusting toads on the shore of the swamp that is Peterson's life are even more disgusting.

>>13874650
Because psychology/psychiatry is a quack science and completely useless.

>>13874639
peterson demonizes a huge swath of society, for money. there's nothing wrong with being happy when such nimrods lose ground.

>>13874647
He self helped himself to a few bottles of meds, what's the big deal?

>>13874650
It's a type of psychology that utilizes scientific and medical data to handle patients' psychological issues.

>>13874653
That's a terrible, awful thing to say, and you sound like you might need therapy.

>>13874660
>spacing
nah you just convinced me that >>13874653 is right

>>13874655
>he demonizes a huge swath of society
mostly demonizes marxist sjw professors ruining the humanities and pronoun activists.

>>13874656

>>13874643
I’m 25. I just happened to make good decisions.

Don’t project, anon.

>>13874664

As if I am self-conscious enough to care about the space between my paragraphs.

>>13874670
>As if I am self-conscious

>>13874647
>if his teachings worked he would be immune to feeling depressed when his wife gets cancer

>>13874671
I sure don't care about where I put a space in my typing on 4chan.

>>13874673
If his life is out of order he should clean his room.

>>13874673
>my loved one is sick
>let me take drugs irresponsibly to self-medicate instead of being 100% there for my loved one

>>13874678
Litteraly Learn to Code.

>>13874665

>these are actual things that someone just said unironically

>>13874684
What are your pronouns?

>>13874655
>huge
Trannies are not even 1% of the population.

>>13874540
I’m so sick of all these brainlet articles. Dependency=\= Addiction.

>>13874688
Masc.

>>13874647
He clearly got addicted to overwork for you losers

>>13874667
>I’m 25
So you know nothing of life and are just barely out of school. Be quiet.

>>13874710
Fucker, by the time I was 25 I had done social work, done everything in a restaurant and fixed multiple car problems that a mechanic would charge over a thousand dollars to do. Fuck yourself and your agism.

>>13874714
>by the time I was 25 I had done social work, done everything in a restaurant and fixed multiple car problems
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

YOU FUCKING CHILD

>>13874719
Oh yeah? What have you done in your illustrious faggot life?

>>13874714
that's a cringey yikes from me too dawg

>>13874710
Anon, I don’t know when you graduated ‘school’, but I’ve had three jobs and lived in two different countries since graduation. I’m really enjoying myself.

I’m sorry your life sucks though

>>13874726
>cringey yikes
>someone unironically wrote these words and expects someone else to feel ashamed for their actual accomplishments

>>13874714
either epic bait or potent autism

>>13874638
Quitting klonopin (which is known as a pretty strong benzo) cold turkey is really irresponsible t b h. I should know as I did that a few years ago with street benzos, and it was an absolute hell. I finished in rehab just like him but the point is I was an absolutely stupid 20yo druggie, and daddy boomer right there is supposed to have a PhD in "clinical psychology" - which means that even if he can't prescribe shit, he worked with and knew things about people taking this stuff. I really can't stress how stupid it is to do that cold turkey. Someone advising you to do that would literally want you to die

>>13874651
This though

>>13874733
>>13874726
>>13874719
Salty crackers ITT

>>13874732
Your accomplishments are working in a restaurant and fixing your car, that's like a 5 year old saying "look I'm a big boy now I can wipe my own ass".

>>13874732
I think they’re mostly just upset that they literally sit in their rooms all day refreshing /lit/. It’s easy to call everything shit when you don’t know anything else.

>>13874540
>takes medicine that is prescribed
>becomes dependant
>has the wherewithal to acknowledge problem and seek help
>gets criticized for it by cumbrain 4chan browser with messy room
Simply eric

>>13874732
>>13874739
>>13874742
I survived the Great Depression and WWI and WWII

>>13874742
Shit, I do that, but I can still fix a car. These guys are gonna be hurting one day.

>>13874740
Actually I'm more of a carpenter. I can do anything anyone needs me to do. It's how my family has always been. The difference between me and you is I believe in being a decent human being.

>>13874540
lefty here. hate what peterson stands for. however, i dont "respect him less", or anyone else who struggles with drug addiction / dependency for that matter. if anything, this humanizes him and makes me hate him less. i do take a small amount of pleasure in the fact that this will trouble the messianic self image he's been cultivating with his neocon teenage fanbase who have little to no life experience and will probably see this as some sort of betrayal.

>>13874752
>has the wherewithal to acknowledge problem and seek help
anon people itt are making fun of him because he tried to quit benzos cold turkey instead of going to rehab right away

>>13874753
You mean you were an infant during the Great Depression, and a child during both wars, and you never enlisted to go to Korea, and you were too old to be drafted for Vietnam. You're worse than a boomer. You're a do-nothing nancy boy.

>>13874540
>religion is dying and christianity is gay
>so just be really strong and stuff
Peterson is the modern nietzche of our day

>>13874727
Studies have shown optimists brains delete negative memories, sensory input and emotions. You're literally brain damaged.

>>13874758
>I believe in being a decent human being.
Good for you, sport.

>>13874769
Fucker, by the time I was 25 I had done social media, done everything in a basket-weaving forum and fixed multiple linux problems that a techie would charge over a thousand dollars to do. Fuck yourself and your agism.

>>13874765
Tbh its rather ironic that the man fighting lefties' snowflake mentality thinks of himself as so unique benzo withdrawals don't apply to him

>>13874777
>able to delete negative memories
Sounds like a superpower

>>13874781
I get by.
>>13874785
You are the definition of laziness, grampa.

>>13874777
Imagine being this salty that someone else is happy
>y-you’re brain damaged!
Pathetic desu

>>13874800
Kids with down syndrome are happy sitting in a bathtub of their own shit.

>>13874806
Are you really on /lit/ right now? I thought this board didn't have people like you.

>>13874795
well yeah investing $1 in the S&P 500 back in 1930 paid off well

>>13874818
you made 3000 dollars?

>>13874806
>picks up happy, smiling, shit-covered kid with Down syndrome
>throttle him, screaming “You’re literally brain damaged!!”
>kid keeps smiling back at you
You still lose this one, compadre

>>13874814
>I literally can't breath right now!

>>13874824
kek

>>13874823
$1 daily plus dividends and compound interest

>>13874622
>Whether he actually agrees with those political perspectives is irrelevant, because he tarries favor with the right.

>>13874540
>Not knowing that the whole self-guru thing was a charade to pay for his wife's bills because he knew he couldn't afford it otherwise
I expected better from /lit/.

>>13874851
It's the same reason Donald Trump is still a right-wing Christian fundamentalist nationalist regardless of whether or not he actually believes in those things. He panders to them and grants that perspective wider recognition than it deserves.
>>13874887
There's free healthcare in Canada, buddy. He probably did it to finance his benzo habit.

>>13874901
>wider recognition than it deserves
A democracy is the bigger group gets to dictate the decisions. "Deserves". Like you're the arbiter or who deserves what. Fucking queer.

>>13874901
>There's free healthcare in Canada
It's not free, it's paid for by taxing peoples wages and it's shit. It's worse than the worst medical treatment you could pay for in America. Got cancer? 6 month waiting list for chemo.

>>13874907
Yeah, except the bigger group literally didn't get to dictate his election. He lost it by 3 million votes, but America doesn't have a popular vote, unlike any other democratic country in the world.

>>13874911
LOL that shit's not true.

>>13874913
Yes it is, IDIOT. I fucking live in Canada, I think I'd know how my own medical system fucking works you commie retard.

>>13874916
Do you know what chemotherapy is? You take it at home. It's pills. You have to go to the hospital periodically for checkups and blood tests. There is no "waiting list" for chemo. It's called your doctor's appointment.

>>13874912
>Yeah, except the bigger group literally didn't get to dictate his election
He won by the rules of the country he ran for leadership of, don't like it? Move somewhere else. Britain, Germany and most Europeans don't elect leaders, they elect party's and the party's choose their own leaders.

Educate yourself moron.

>>13874632
Your faith in antidepressants is too great. In many cases Psychotherapy and other psychological Interventions works just as well, if not more.

>>13874920
Ok retard, you clearly know more than me, come get your "free" healthcare. Enjoy dying while you wait for the bloated system to get to you.

>>13874540
>man falls on hard times from overwhelming stress and a spouse with cancer
>but we have to keep spewing bullshit because he disagrees with us

>>13874921
Funny how you didn't mention France, which is almost exactly like America, sans the electoral college. I believe in presidential republics, but I don't believe in the electoral college. Neither do most people, actually, so I think we can change that here at home :)

>>13874920
bro they stick you in a big x-ray machine that costs 45 million dollars and they only have 2 in Canada. commies love giving cancer

>>13874930
Reminder that Leftists hate you and want you dead.

>>13874935
LOL what is this nonsense.

>>13874940
Only some people ;)

>>13874927
I live in Canada, there are obviously issues as no system is perfect, but it's also obvious our healthcare is preferable by the fact that every Canadian knows a handful of dual citizens who come up to Canada specifically for the medical system (prescriptions and procedures).

>>13874931
>I believe in presidential republics, but I don't believe in the electoral college.
Then fucking LEAVE. Go live in France. You don't get to reside in America and then complain about its election procedures moron.

tfw no gf

>>13874927
Wish I could, but it only covers citizens. We just get a discount, and it's not worth the gas uwu

>>13874947
>I live in Canada
No, you don't. You're a commie, lefty American who thinks """"free"""" healthcare is better by virtue of the fact it's """"free"""".

>>13874952
But yes, you do. That's literally the reason the Bill of Rights exists. So we can criticize the government openly and freely. And if we have a valid point to make, it will make its progress, and it is.

>>13874957
I know I'm Canadian because I have to listen to my dad complain about having to pay 30 dollars a month in MSP premiums

we all knew cultural marxists were behind oxy but now this?

>>13874966
LOL nice. I'm 4000 dollars in debt for treatment that my insurance decided not to cover after telling me it would be covered.

>>13874963
>it will make its progress, and it is
No it's not. Literally no one but salty shillary supporters care or are complaining.

>>13874560
>his advice is good for people that dont need advice
are you that fucking dumb really? also
>>13874570
TRUE and people who legit listen to JBP use Nietzsche to sell them back to Christianity are the fucking lowest tier people.

>>13874973
I mean, I knew you were nothing but rhetoric, but really? That's weak, lad. Most Americans support a popular vote. Old people don't want to change the Constitution, but we've done it before. Old people have to die, but we'll do it again.

>>13874984
>Most Americans support a popular vote.
No they don't. They don't care and you'll never convince them to care.

>>13874984
>this one weird trick will save my country from being a terminally ill joke

>>13874987
How old are you?

>>13874940
It's sad how SJW dumbfucks don't get they'd be the first ones to the firing squad in an actual commie takeover they dream about

>>13874991
I'm a mild-mannered Marxist, friend. I only want you dead *philosophically* ;)

>>13874990
Old enough to spot a delusional commie retard

>>13874994
You consider yourself... a centrist? Right-wing? Syncretic? Apolitical?

>>13874997
None of those. I don't vote, I don't care about politics.

>>13875004
Apolitical then. So you're nothing to nobody.

>>13874622
>tarries
Disqualifyingly dysphoric

>>13875015
Dissatisfying diss.

>>13875008
You think being political connects you to others? Jesus christ...

>your only asset is your brain
>get addicted to motherfucking benzos
he was a retard all along

>>13874570
How fucking retarded do you have to be to actually think than the concept of a coherent family is some capitalist construct. Read a fucking history book you moron, do you really think that the concept of a family or family lines are that fucking new?

>>13874618
That's literally just projection of your own inadequacies onto others. Sure, quite a lot of people aren't happy, but to say that there is nothing of value to be found in finding a career you find meaningful and a family you love is literally just a teenager tier cope that is significantly more "sold to you" than the concept of a family.

>>13875076
>How fucking retarded do you have to be to actually think than the concept of a coherent family is some capitalist construct
But it is.

For most of human history we lived in tribes where child rearing was communal and while yes you'd have a "wife" people didn't wander off on their own with their kids and purposely isolate themselves. And no, having extended family "visit" is not the same thing. Divide and conquer, everyone having their own mini tribe called a family makes them far easier to rule over.

>>13875087
>Muh career
>Muh family unit
Fine, go ahead and do what million of other men before you have regretted doing. Look at any married man, he's fucking miserable.

>>13875094
>the family unit is brainlet tier
>but muh tribes
lmao

>>13875101
Are you denying history?

>>13874643
Dude, what you're talking about are things that only 14 year olds and 40+ year olds who haven't matured a bit since 14 believe. Your life hasn't been that hard you pussy faggot. There are billions of people who deal with the dredgery of existence and wade themselves through some of the most grueling and tortuous shit imaginable and still have it in them to be happy. Meanwhile you sit at home saying "all is lost" because the government won't give you free buffalo wild wings and v-bucks forever you stupid faggot. Literally go kill yourself if you really believe that your life is that pointless.

>>13875103
anon you are the one who tries to deny history

>Procedural knowledge, generated in the course of heroic behavior, is not organized and integrated within the group and the individual as a consequence of simple accumulation. Procedure “a,” appropriate in situation one, and procedure “b,” appropriate in situation two, may clash in mutual violent opposition in situation three. Under such circumstances intrapsychic or interpersonal conflict necessarily emerges. When such antagonism arises, moral revaluation becomes necessary. As a consequence of such revaluation, behavioral options are brutally rank-ordered, or, less frequently, entire moral systems are devastated, reorganized and replaced. This organization and reorganization occurs as a consequence of “war,” in its concrete, abstract, intrapsychic, and interpersonal variants. In the most basic case, an individual is rendered subject to an intolerable conflict, as a consequence of the perceived (affective) incompatibility of two or more apprehended outcomes of a given behavioral procedure. In the purely intrapsychic sphere, such conflict often emerges when attainment of what is desired presently necessarily interferes with attainment of what is desired (or avoidance of what is feared) in the future. Permanent satisfactory resolution of such conflict (between temptation and “moral purity,” for example) requires the construction of an abstract moral system, powerful enough to allow what an occurrence signifies for the future to govern reaction to what it signifies now. Even that construction, however, is necessarily incomplete when considered only as an “intrapsychic” phenomena. The individual, once capable of coherently integrating competing motivational demands in the private sphere, nonetheless remains destined for conflict with the other, in the course of the inevitable transformations of personal experience. This means that the person who has come to terms with him- or herself—at least in principle—is still subject to the affective dysregulation inevitably produced by interpersonal interaction. It is also the case that such subjugation is actually indicative of insufficient “intrapsychic” organization, as many basic “needs” can only be satisfied through the cooperation of others.

>>13875109
Are you denying tribes were the way of life for 95% of human history?

>>13875108
t. Insecure underageb&d

>>13875115
are you denying that humans as a whole evolved instead of still living in their own shit, mainly thanks to ending tribal societies?

>>13875123
Thanks for exposing yourself as an ignorant retard so I don't have to

>>13874806
Here's the thing you faggot. All you fucking do is complain about how fucking bad everything is. Yes, kids with down syndrome sitting in a bath tub of their own shit find a way to be happy. People living in the fucking third world having to dig for fucking rats and bugs for dinner find a way to be fucking happy. People working 20 hour days to make your faggot fucking iPhone and your faggot fucking chinos find a way to be happy. You are upset because the government and Amazon won't give you free tendies hormones and dildos forever and you think that you have some sort of moral superiority over the people actually working their way through the world instead of just being a moody 14 year old throwing a temper tantrum forever. Fuck off you gigantic faggot. I hope you actually one day get to experience the misery that you constantly complain about, it might teach you a thing or two about what it actually means to be a person.

>>13875094
You're oversimplifying it to the extreme. 'tribe' is not even a particularly accurate term. Humans have actually had a variety of social arrangements, few to none of them being as straightforward as 'we just had communal child rearing lol'.

>>13875094
That is not true, a lot of the ancient cultures we dig up were comprised of just a handful of families existing dispersed in an area.

>>13875132
People lived together in the same area, ate together, hunted together, worked to survive together. None of that happens in the modern world.

>>13875120
Really, that's your fucking response? You're so fucking myopic that you can't possibly imagine that people who have experienced hardship may think and live differently from you? Go fucking talk to some of these people who actually are working and have families you stupid faggot. Sure, not everything is perfect but it's better than anyone could have ever fucking imagined for pretty much all of human fucking existence. Go fucking actually work an honest day in your fucking life before you come to me saying that the only people who can be happy are naive children.

>>13875142
>a lot of the ancient cultures we dig up were comprised of just a handful of families existing dispersed in an area.
Such as?

>>13875127
lmoa, how am I the ignorant retard, whats with the thosuands of years between prehuman monkeys and current capitalist societies.

>>13875130
ok kid

>>13875153
>lmoa, how am I the ignorant retard
You think hunter gatherers lived in their own shit and that we "evolved" to be subsistence farmers and later techno industrial serfs. That's how.

>>13875097
>Look at any married man, he's fucking miserable

I fucking am one and I have many friends who are as well. Sure things aren't perfect. Not everything is a ray of fucking sunshine but to say I'm miserable is nonsense.

>>13875150
t. salty 15 year old

>>13875157
What fucking response is that? Are you literally a fucking middle schooler?

>>13874570
bruh the idea that a career or backing family cant help you has to be pure denialist propaganda, go chew your schizo pills tranny

>>13875164
Literally go kill yourself if your life is such a pit of misery. If you really think that all is lost and there's nothing to be gained from participation in society then actually fucking leave it instead of being a fucking worthless parasite.

>>13875160
So you're biased. You'll never admit it's unbearably bad and a huge mistake because then you'd have to deal with the reality of that fact.

>>13875166
"Careers" didn't exist for most of human history. People aren't born to be painters or writers or engineers, they're all just killing time. And the modern concept of family is a bastardisation and the fact you think it will save you is proof you've seen too much tv.

>>13875152
These guys were 4-6 families that existed in one spot for like 2000 years

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_I_culture

Inuits still live in family units today.

>>13874664
bruh dont use spacing as a merit to plug your ears in the face of reason you disingenuous quack

First of all, that's just trivially untrue, but you're also only counting the First World. Traditional arrangements are still highly common in Africa, huge chunks of China, Latin America, etc.

>>13875172
ok champ

>>13875159
they did tho, just look at how hunter gatherer societies live today. Also denying any kind of evolution and instead putting literal subhuman monkeys as the pinnacle of humanity sounds quite ignorant and retarded to me.

>>13875173
You literally have no fucking clue what the hell you're talking about. People had fucking careers in the fucking fertile crescent when there was food surplus. People were artisans long before any modern concept of capitalism existed.

>>13875179
Jumped back into the thread and apparently you’re STILL getting blown the fuck out. Consider what he’s saying, anon. Really think about it...

>>13875160
Without a doubt you fear upsetting your wife. I have had sex and it is not worth what women are. If we disconnected getting a woman from being necessary to be seen as a normal person I bet women would have to get their act together.

>>13875175
>2400BC and 1000BC
So well after the invention of agriculture.

Thanks moron, your irrelevant rubbish only proves the modern concept of family was spawned by agriculture.

>>13875179
Literally you're not even pretending to engage with reality. Why even fucking come to this stupid website if all you're going to do is plug your ears when people disagree with you and can defend it?

Why are marxshits perfectly fine with Marx never having had a job his entire life while being supported by his rich friend?

>>13875187
Sure thing sport

>>13875189
They definitely didn’t have agriculture in independence 1. Why are you so offended by families?

>>13875177
Meant for
>>13875146

>>13874680
>let me watch the one i loved and dedicated a majority of my to die in front of me
>let some lonely faggot who thinks his lack of motivation and basic human hygiene leading to his "alienation" s the true tragedy mock my attempts at coping
>let me completely recover in a 6 week period and go back to my content self while this faggot seethes

>>13875191
>whatabout
NPC response.

>>13875188
Do you really think the only reason I'm with my wife is sex? She comforts me when things are difficult. She makes me food when I'm tired. She helps keep the parts of my life in order that I don't have time for. Dude, you're literally a child yelling screaming at adults for not being as childish as you.

>>13875193
>They definitely didn’t have agriculture in independence 1.
"The independence I culture disappeared around 1000 BC for unknown reasons. Scientists have considerably debated the reasons for why Independence I and II emerged in the isolated northeastern part of Greenland, as well as how these cultures flourished and disappeared".

They don't know fuck all about them.

>>13875177
>Africa, huge chunks of China, Latin America
All places with agriculture, contact from the modern world and none of which live like their ancestors.

>>13875200
This anon is correct. While I’m sometimes dissatisfied with my wife, those moments of comfort change everything. It isn’t really about sex, it’s about, as silly as it sounds, companionship.

>>13875201
Eskimos only eat meat and live in families, that’s all they’ve done got recorded history. You’re reaching hard.

>>13875190
Got it, kiddo
>>13875181
>they did tho, just look at how hunter gatherer societies live today
There are no uncontacted tribes left, it's proof of nothing but the death of hunter gatherers.

>>13874734
if you've ever been in any form of rehab you'd know that hes gonna transition to lower dosages and less addicting forms of the drug and then slowly ween of those, just like a heroin addict switching to lortabs he'll be off everything in a good couple of months

>>13875209
>got
for*

>>13875182
>People had fucking careers in the fucking fertile crescent
*yawn*

How many times do I have to say it? Anything after agriculture was discovered is not relevant, it's only 5% of our history.

>>13875094
Basically all you're saying is because the family is less prominent and less integrated now than before modernity (a fucking tribe is nothing but an extended family you moron) that families have never existed. Do you have any idea how ridiculous that is on the face of it and how self-contradictory that viewpoint is?

>>13875215
If YOU’VE ever been in any form of rehab, you’d know that quitting benzos the first time around is extremely unlikely.

It’s easy to segment rehab into steps, write them out, and say “okay do this”, but actually doing it is something else entirely.

>>13875219
i mean,by that logic anythinng after picking up a fucking stick was discovered anon, we can go all the way back to the prexisiting universes communal living isnt the status quo

>>13875209
>Eskimos only eat meat and live in families
"The independence I culture disappeared around 1000 BC for unknown reasons. Scientists have considerably debated the reasons for why Independence I and II emerged in the isolated northeastern part of Greenland, as well as how these cultures flourished and disappeared".

They don't know fuck all about them.

>>13875201
It’s northern greenland you shithead

>>13875230
You must be actually retarded or female

>>13875219
Anything after agriculture was discovered is irrelevant? Literally go fucking throw your phone our and larp in the woods then you stupid disingenuous faggot.

>>13875227
no shit sherlock, people relapse on almost everything the first few times around or show serious problems moving forwards, doesn't mean its a different process or theirs anything special this time around

>>13875229
>i mean,by that logic anythinng after picking up a fucking stick was discovered anon
For 95% of our history we were hunter gatherers. Stop pretending like the last 15,000 years are anything but a blink of the eye. For 300,000 homo sapiens were hunter gatherers, and for millions of years before that our ancestors were too.

>>13875219
Also what the fuck are you talking about it's only 5% of our history. History fucking started with the written word which required fucking food surplus from agriculture you fucking moron. There is no history before settlement/agriculture. It's literally called "Pre-history"

>>13875235
Calm down kiddo, there's nothing to throw a tantrum about.

Yes, your concept of the Greeks being the start of history is wrong and incredibly ignorant.

>>13875223
There's a difference between living in a group, everyone dependent on each other for survival and your auntie nora bringing a turkey round on christmas.

>>13875244
and for billions of years before that we were microbiomes, the only point your validating is that in the past weve shown to be dumber and less efficient

>>13875246
>History fucking started with the written word
PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HOLY FUCK AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA JESUS SAVE ME HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

>>13875244
There was no fucking history before agriculture you fucking retard. Anatomically modern humans aren't even 40,000 years old and there wasn't a fucking concept of history until post agriculture. You're basically saying that the only option is to literally go back to being feral animals which is something you very obviously don't actually believe because you're not even pretending to engage in it.

>>13875244
would you like to go all the way back to the first cellular mitosis and ask it what it thinks about the difference between the collective and the individual

>>13875255
What method was there for history before written language? There was oral mythology but there certainly wasn't fucking history.

>>13875234
"The independence I culture disappeared around 1000 BC for unknown reasons. Scientists have considerably debated the reasons for why Independence I and II emerged in the isolated northeastern part of Greenland, as well as how these cultures flourished and disappeared".

They don't know fuck all about them.

>>13875231
3000-5000 years ago is a long time, the earth heats up and cools down in cycles

>>13875260
History isn't just the thing in your book you drooling fucking retard hahahahahaha, history is anything that ever happened

>>13875253
The majority of your day is not spent surviving. You don't hunt for food or search for water, you don't make shelter or fire. You kill time. With jobs, with entertainment, with society.

>>13875265
periodical speaking hes correct and your just a retard claiming the archetypal way to live is dying of syphilis at 14

>>13875265
>history is anything that ever happened
No, I’m afraid the way you use “history” with your barnyard buddies is not correct. Go oink around in a mud puddle, simple lad.

>>13875256
There’s been culture for 400 thousand years, another reason this screeching female is insane and retarded, the whole schtick of homo sapien that surpassed the other homos was our ability to form long distance social connections through cultures, so you could be born to some shell people or whatever the fuck and eventually meet another shell person and know you’re both friendly and can fuck.

>>13875265
No it fucking isn't you fucking retard. That "anything that has ever happened" was fucking written down so you could fucking learn about it. Without the lens of fucking language you have no God damn way to distinguish between what actually occurred and what didn't or even to conceptualize temporality beyond your lifetime. As far as your ability to understand the information it absolutely is limited by the ability of historians to record and interpret the past which is a fucking post agricultural development.

>>13875266
and your point is, cause now i dont have to worry 18 hours a day about what im gonna eat or if gary's gonna bash my skull in and eat my meat im not surviving, is the whole point of life to just survive, and if so i have already achieved that goal why not decide what i do with the rest of my time how i please

>>13875259
>>13875266
respond to this coward

>>13875267
Syphilis is only a problem thanks to civilisation creating incredibly dense populations that are breeding grounds for disease

>>13875272
>you have no God damn way to distinguish between what actually occurred and what didn't
Well, uh, to be fair written language isn’t exactly exempt from this criticism...

>>13875273
>is the whole point of life to just survive
Yes
>and if so i have already achieved that goal why not decide what i do with the rest of my time how i please
Because why would you want that? It's like beating a video game and aimlessly wandering around the overworld until you die in 60 years.

>>13875280
Modern humans, that's us, are not cells. If you look at our 300,000-400,000 year existence 95% of that was as hunter gatherers.

>>13875289
no,its like beating a video game and playing the side quests instead of trying to defeat alduin with an iron dagger

>>13875297
modern humans,thats us, are biologically different to people that lived 300 years ago and thus should not be compared by your standards

>>13875281
insert another very common disease

>>13875280
You're a fucking coward. You won't even pretend to engage with the reality you face and your response is to just shrug it off and cope by saying "Well none of this is real because 40,000 years ago civilization didn't exist." Guess the fuck what, if you don't have what it takes to survive in the easiest fucking time that it has ever been to exist except for maybe 50ish years ago, you sure as shit don't have what it takes to hunt for your fucking food every day because there is no fucking Buffalo Wild Wings you and order for 30 minute delivery. For fucks sake you don't even need to go back in time to see how retarded your worldview is. Literally just go somewhere less wealthy than the west. You don't even need to leave Europe/The Americas. Go talk to people in fucking Serbia or Bosnia or Belarus about how awful things are because people don't need to work for their food anymore. Have fun.

>>13875302
>are biologically different to people that lived 300 years ago
Wrong.

>>13875297
and what does that imply apart from pointing out that prehumans were literal monkeys up until the emergence of agriculture?

>>13875307
AIDs? Common cold? Polio? All civilisation.

>>13875298
>Skyrim
Ahhh, I see you're a retard

>>13875285
Fuck off you nigger faggot. Yes language isn't perfect but you and I both know that it's a lot better than literally having no written language at all in terms of communication of ideas and preservation of records.

>>13875312
>prehumans were literal monkeys up until the emergence of agriculture?
pfffffffftttttAHAHAHAHAAHAHA

Are you seriously saying up until 15,000 years ago we were monkeys?

>>13875308
i think your confused, im not arguing for any of the things you just said in fact i believe we are on the same page opinion wise

>>13875319
yes

>>13875308
>Go talk to people in fucking Serbia or Bosnia or Belarus about how awful things are because people don't need to work for their food anymore
You mean places torn apart by hundreds of years of wars and conquest thanks to civlisation? Ok.

>>13875297
>appealing to some vague temporal classification for what is and isn’t a human
>thereby, here’s a nonsense percentage for how long ‘we’ were this other thing
It’s like watching a child draw on the walls with crayons and then gesture to it, as if significant. What are you retards even arguing?

>>13875310
Literally we are. You can take fucking DNA tests. There's massive genetic, anatomical and physiological differences between 21st century populations and 18th century populations. Just look at the changes in average male height over the last 300 years in pretty much every white country.

>>13875322
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>13875323
Yes, civilization is to blame for warfare right? Tribal civilizations engage in fucking warfare all the time they just literally kill the entire tribe whenever they win.

>>13875325
>People are a bit taller so we're a new species
Not how biology works.

>>13875315
diseases have always existed retard, there are far worse diseases that have been recorded to have gone extinct around the periods your suggesting where the prime of human existence and large tribes were still large enough and domesticated to warrant the spread of said diseases,

>>13875328
why dont you go larp in the woods or join a tribe in africa? shouldnt be posting here

>>13875331
No one is saying we're a new species but that biological changes have happened. You don't need an entire new speciation to become biologically distinguishable groups you fucking moron.

>>13875329
Tribal warfare compared to agricultural era warefare is like comparing two kids fighting with sticks to two countries armed with nukes.

>>13875333
You were joking right?

You don't seriously believe we were monkeys 15,000 years ago do you?

>>13875331
>our way of existing together as a community is based on biological factors
>but changing biological factors dont have an effect on the way we live
>also 40000 years is somehow notlong enough for major changes
>and within those 40000 years we didnt cross bread with another species to make a hybrid which would also effect our communal gathering
neanderthals did exist retard

>>13875328
I'd go as far as saying most people on Earth now are basically monkeys and significantly less sentient than physiologically modern humans (largely molded by literally over 1000 generations of adaptation to settled/agricultural living)

>>13875337
>biological changes have happened
You still need water, food, warmth and shelter to survive. You're no different from your ancestors of 400,000 years ago.

>>13875338
Go fucking try to make contact with one of these existing uncontacted tribes if you really fucking believe that. I believe there was someone in the news a year or so ago for trying to do that and figuring out just how fucking brutal tribal people can be.

>>13875339
i do, sitting on trees munching on bananas. Sometimes eating ticks out of our 52 different wives' hair. Thats what we were. These are your gods.

>>13875345
all living things need those to survive, am i no different than a dog now

>>13875322
You're completely wrong. Skeletons of the Cro-Magnon man are larger and have a bigger cranial capacity than modern skeletons.

In general, we've become weaker and dumber after the invention of agriculture.

>>13875346
>one of these existing uncontacted tribes
They don't exist

>>13875345
So do fucking bears you fucking retard. That's not the standard by which we evaluate what is a fucking modern human and what isn't.

>>13875351
sure we have anon.

>>13875349
AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAHAHA

>>13875350
>am i no different than a dog now
Do you honestly believe you're "better" than a dog?

>>13875341
>I'd go as far as saying most people on Earth now are basically monkeys and significantly less sentient than physiologically modern humans (largely molded by literally over 1000 generations of adaptation to settled/agricultural living)
>more sentient
Interesting... is your position that humans have ‘lost’ a sense of themselves and are, now, less alive than previously? I don’t think the word you’re looking for is ‘sentient’, since that’s mostly an on-and-off switch, not something that is graded. I mean, your position is incredibly romantic, but the Luddite in me compels me to, at least, sympathize with having the position.

Do you think monkeys are more ‘sentient’ than we are?

>>13875351
cranium size doesnt correlate intelligence, neanderthals had something like double the size of our craniums and still show far more signs of barbaric lifestyles

>>13875352
Yes they do and there's thousands of them throughout the fucking world. And everytime some faggot (whether it be a hippy Christian like the last time or one of the many anthropologists before him) tries to contact one of them without bringing a fucking army they get killed.

>>13875359
i believe we are different animals, did i say i was better? do you?

>>13874570
>Family doesn't help you
People raised by a functioning family are statistically more likely to flourish in society and be happy. Organised social groupings of any kind are beneficial to the wellbeing of a human (the family unit is one such grouping within this class). How on earth do you come to the conclusion otherwise?

>>13875364
>Yes they do and there's thousands of them throughout the fucking world
Wrong, because it we know about them then they've come into contact with the modern world.

>>13875366
some one told him societies a social construct and he just rolled with it to get coffee shop hoes

>>13875360
You're reading me backwards. I'm saying that our concept of modern humans includes people organisms that are more self aware, but that most humans existing throughout the world do not fit that model as well as we in the west like to pretend. There are many places where people have been shaped very little by civilization and are effectively feral and have very little self-awareness/sentience as a result.

>>13875366
>>13875372
My point was that a family won't "make it all ok" and suddenly make society worth living in.

>>13874570
>>13874981
>>13874651
>>13874673
>>13874887
>>13875097
>>13875103
This a leftypol tranny free board. Go dilate before that wound on your pelvis heals.

>>13875370
Dude, you literally have a room temperature IQ. Us having aerial photographs of these tribes from thousands of feet above them is not them coming into contact with modernity in any real way.

>>13875379
>Us having aerial photographs of these tribes
Means they've no doubt seen planes in the sky before, so they're not uncontacted.

>>13875376
no,but it will help and its good support system. and a backing family is highly valued in terms of success. we as social animals need each other and maternal bonds through shared experiences like birth exist as a proving point against your claim

>>13875376
You literally sound like a spoiled child that has never had anything bad happen to them before who is now complaining that their mom won't always buy them every single thing they want. Family doesn't fix every single problem a person has. You don't need to go into this massive tactical nihilism spiral where you have to pretend that things were better pre-agriculture to justify your inability to cope with the minor hardships you've experienced.

>>13875386
Having children while living in society is cruelty of the highest order

>>13875385
i didnt realize i was contacting the president when i saw him

>>13875387
I don't find modern life hard, I find it boring and empty.

>>13875385
Literally fuck off. It's very obvious at this point you've never actually believed a word you've fucking said in this thread. Go fuck yourself and find something better to do with your time than being some disingenuous faggot on the internet.

>>13875393
Then stop posting on the internet get rid of your smart phone and go larp in the fucking woods you drooling retard.

>>13875373
I’m not sure civilization, however you’ve defined it, is a requirement for self-awareness, nor is it a requirement for ‘sentience’, whatever you mean that to be.

>>13875388
do you have any? they bring me joy and hope, understand pessimism or nihilism but if you cant see hope in the near future of humanity and your impact on that then you are lost

>>13875390
Now you know

>>13875376
>>13875393
>>13875388
>DUDE SOCIETY BAD
>EVERYONE MUST BECOME A STERILE TRANNY INSTEAD OF HAVING A FAMILY

>>13875398
>tfw I did this more or less and I was very happy for a while
Not that anon by the way

>>13875400
>me me me me me
Case in point

>>13875376
>My point was that a family won't "make it all ok" and suddenly make society worth living in.
there's a logical gap between 'family wont heal all problems' to 'fuck the family unit its a social construct sold to you'.

It is FAR more helpful to have a caring family, caring wife and appreciable stream of income.

>>13875393
then you literally need Jordan Peterson

>>13875388
oh so you're just an anti-natalist, that explains a lot

>>13875406
>case in point
you have no point lol, you just wrote 'case in point'

>>13874655
How the fuck did you get here?

>>13875399
It's not a requirement for self-awareness in a direct sense, but it produces a high degree of selection pressures favoring it. Over the course of many generations, civilization increases the average intelligence of the members of it's society via selection pressures favoring that intelligence. This is really basic human evolutionary biology.

Populations that have had less exposure to social complexity and agricultural living have not had the literally thousands of generations of selection pressure favoring intelligence in the ways that people from regions which have experienced high degrees of social complexity have. Literally go survey the average intelligence of Sub-Saharan Africans vs East Asians and the people of the Levant. It doesn't matter what metric you use, the East Asians will come out more intelligent and self aware every single fucking time.

>>13875414
You had children to make yourself feel better, that's cruel

>>13875406
just saying antinatilism as a bases for your nihilism pretty mid tier edgy 14 year old dude,until you've actually made something of yourself and brought life into this world you shouldn't say its only painful, life is painful and thats why its also amazing and using survival as a basis for the point of living while not acknowledging the also very prevalent desire to breed as anther point of survival just shows a lack of understanding of even primitive lifestyles

>>13875420
how's that cruel? literally everything you type doesn't follow from your previous argument.

Is this the power of anti-natalism?

>>13875423
>how's that cruel?
You had children...to make yourself feel better feels.

That's incredibly cruel.

>>13875420
i had children to spread the joy of life with some one i love and cherish, something no one taught me and i had to learn on my own. But please rant to me about how your mom popping Xanax and cheating on your dad is reason enough for me to regret my children and revert back to spearing fucking water buffaloes

>>13875422
>make something of yourself
The most pathetic cope of all.

>>13875427
>i had children to spread the joy of life with some one i love and cherish
Stop watching movies.

>>13875425
and what is the point of life if to not feel better in your perspective

>>13874540
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maXXTXIgpu8

>>13875430
leave your basement and have intimacy with your surroundings

>>13875425
yes and they feel better too. We both feel good. It's a reciprocating feeling (something you'll never know btw).

Are anti-natalists really this vapid? Am I being meme'd?

>>13875431
>and what is the point of life if to not feel better
This is why there's so many cunts in the world, who'll shit out little cunts of their own and educate them in the ways of the cunt.

>>13875430
im content and have pride in my own justification of my existence,can you say the same?

>>13875437
>yes and they feel better too. We both feel good. It's a reciprocating feeling
No, it's iiiiisn't. You're using them like an emotional cocksleeve.

>life outcomes are determined by iq and according to the matthew effect the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer
>its your fault though, wash your penis

Ths thread is absolutely cancerous. I get why the vocal anti-peterson seethe so much, they're dirty nihilists.

>>13875445
>No, it's iiiiisn't.
i'm pretty sure they are feeling good

>You're using them like an emotional cocksleeve.
still not cruel

>>13875438
what the point cunt, you want to go back to hunter gathers,what benefit will that have, you want to end humane existnece likes thats some revolutionary idea but cant explain the net goal, is it to end human suffering cause if so take the 12 guage to your self and let me make my own decision you narcissistic fuck

>that one anti-natalist who sperged out in the last thread
I bet it's him isn't it?

>>13875445
is consensual sex also immoral in your world view you puritan fuck

>>13875453
>REEEE DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO I'LL HAVE KIDS IF I WANT DON'T LECTURE ME IT'S MY LIFE I'LL DO WHAT I LIKE
You're really making a solid case for how intelligent breeders are

>>13875418
It’s just absolutely bizarre how you’re using the term “self-aware”, as if having little self-awareness or a large amount of self-awareness is dependent upon your intelligence. Self-awareness, in a strict, definitive sense, is the ability to separate oneself from the environment one inhabits; in other words, to realize oneself or to realize that one exists separately from other things. This is a characteristic shared by, I would wager, most humans on the planet. Other than monists of course, many of which were suspiciously European...

If you’re using the term “self-aware” in a colloquial sense, or in the sense that the property of having “self-awareness” is the property of being socially graceful and able to read the room, I fail to see your point in all this, as this is a fairly specific characteristic that, obviously, would be more present in more socially-exposed civilizations.

>>13875457
>breeders
yep its definitely him

>>13874916
Epic trolling bro

im convinced anti-natalism was developed to fool people already susceptible to being cucks

>>13875462
>Why?
Because it's cruel, selfish and the most evil choice you can make.

>>13875457
>le breeders
the anti natalist subreddit is down the hall and to the left

>>13875466
>Because it's cruel, selfish and the most evil choice you can make.

>>13875457
point is why does it matter to you if you've already figured the point of human existence is to end human suffering and the means to that ends being a slug to the roof of your mouth why would you even bother convincing a fool like me, unless of course you dont actually believe that and are just an edgy teen trying to seem cool and interesting

>>13875469
/lit/ is an anti natalist board

>>13875478
I'm not an anti natalist.

I'm anti having kids while living in society. Go live in the wild and have kids and I've got 0 problems with it.

>>13875466
k guy,you do that im gonna have your share of coochie now

>>13875458
I was using it as more or less interchangeably with consciousness. The ability to recognize one's place in an environment consisting of animate and inanimate objects, and use that understanding to make informed decisions with a somewhat reasonable understanding of the potential outcomes of those decisions.

>>13875479
No matter how many times you raid us you shall forever be known as a brainlet in here.

>>13874570
>"The family unit" was sold to you.
The single mom epidemic is even worse. The vile, bloated ego of women cannot stand critique or the notion that they made poor life choices.

>>13875485
why is subjecting my kids to the harsh reality of nature better than subjecting them to a good decade and a half of nourishment and opportunity