/lit/ - Literature

holy fucking shit dude. am I supposed to read that?

>>13743605
Plato and Kant were idealist.

>>13743614
the ones marked with an "i" are idealists, forgot to mention

>>13743605
okay

>>13743605
>presocratics (Lucretius

>>13743605
explain to me what base materialism (bataille) is pls

>>13743764
buttholes but magic or something

>>13743840
thanks anon

>>13743891
here to help

>>13743607
based

Terrible thread, dialectical materialism was created by marx it can’t primordially define other philosophies, other philosophies define IT

Matter is a concept, an idea, too. Materialism is idealism.

Idealism and materialism are also terms used in other disciplines with different (but similar) claims, so if you see it used "incorrectly" here it may just be the jargon of another literature.

>>13744030
lol

>>13744030
Woah...

>>13744057
what disciplines?

>>13743605
>but materialism isn't really defined as a monism until the presocratics (Lucretius, Thales, Democritis, Anaximander, ect.)
>Lucretius was a pre-Socratic

You seriously need to neck yourself.

>>13744057
except materialism works irl, like, the thing you are grabbing with your hand?you know right now, the "cellphone" thing to write your autistic shit? Yeah, "exists" because some people thought idelism was fucking useless and materialism was the real deal, WHOA, amazing isn't it!?

>>13744030
except materialism works irl, like, the thing you are grabbing with your hand?you know right now, the "cellphone" thing to write your autistic shit? Yeah, "exists" because some people thought idelism was fucking useless and materialism was the real deal, WHOA, amazing isn't it!!?

somebody needs to write a philosophy for retards book without all the fluff so pea brains like me can understand it

Is there any practical difference between idealism (everything is real-seeming ideal) and materialism (everything is real)?

>>13743605
>The materialist insists that everything which exists is material.
That's eliminative materialism, retard.

>>13744270
I just wish everything was in plaintext. I want to learn perspectives not sift through a bunch of bullshit broken english.

>>13744284
Zizek thinks the material isn't really real, but Hegel thought the ideal really was real, not just seeming to be so. It's not as simple as that.
>>13744313
Eliminative materialism denies consciousness, dreams, ect. as being real because there is no clear materialistic cause that we have been able to find, this is the materialism of Denett et al.

>everything that exist is material
Sounds really dumb.

>>13743605
The opposite of idealism is realism retard
Realism believes in an objective world outside of the human intellect
Materialism believes only the physical world exists

>Realism overlooks the fact that the so-called being of these real things is absolutely nothing else than their being represented, or if it be insisted, that only the immediate presence in the consciousness of the Subject can be called being represented; or, if one insists in calling only that which is in the immediate present of the subject's consciousness an actual representation, then it is just an ability to be represented potentially. The realist forgets that the Object ceases to be Object apart from its reference to the Subject, and that if we take away that reference, or think it away, we at once do away with all objective existence.

>When [Leibniz] wanted to determine more closely the essence of these things existing objectively in themselves, he found himself obliged to declare the Objects in themselves to be Subjects (monads), and by doing so he furnished the most striking proof of the inability of our consciousness, in as far as it is merely cognitive, to find within the limits of the intellect i.e. of the apparatus by means of which we represent the world anything beyond Subject and Object; the representer and the represented. Therefore, if we abstract from the objectivity of an Object, or in other words, from its being represented, if we annul it in its quality as an Object, yet still wish to retain something, we can meet with nothing but the Subject. Conversely, if we desire to abstract from the subjectivity of the Subject, yet to have something over, the contrary takes place, and this leads to Materialism.

>>13743605
this guy is such an obvious alcoholic

how does anyone take him seriously

>>13744406
retard can't even understand the quote he posted

>>13744257
The whole idea of materialism is based on the presumption that a map (a concept, an abstraction, 'matter') is the territory (the world), which is false. There's no 'matter,' it's a mere verbal representation made by humans, but there's an objective world which is independent of our interpretations out it. Believing that everything is *a given concept* is an ignorant kind of idealism.

>>13744157
Not that anon but I see materialism used to mean consumerism and idealism used to mean navel gazing hippy shit all the time

refer to imam ghazali "incoherence of philosophers"

there is still hope for you to accept allah

>>13743607
Nah you're on /lit/

>>13744475
damn this shits confusing.

>>13744521
*blocks your path*

>>13744551
based

>>13743607
Based and illiteratepilled
I didn't come to /lil/ to read

>>13743607
Pseuds don't realize less is more, they go on pseud rambles that exposes them time and time again.

OP unless you are a solipsist or a true nihilist you can't believe in dualism unless you reject all your senses and only partake in pure metaphysical masturbation.
There is no matter dualism, it's almost impossible. If you are no a physicist you can read Sean Carroll's 'The Big Picture' for a layman's explanation why.

There are pretty much no prominent cognitive scientists who believer in matter dualism anymore, now they argue for philosophical zombies.

>>13744420
I like him because he's a leftist who actually offer legit criticisms to current leftist ideology.

He's against political correctnes and many other dangerous leftist ideas.

Leftism can lead to improvements in society, like the fight for better working conditions during the 19th and 20th century. Now it is purely a regressive and dangerous ideology, if more people were like Zizek there would be hope.

Wait, was Based Plato a god-denying communist libtard tranny? The same guy who debunked leftism first with The Republic?

>>13744475
You're not describing materialism, you're describing something that resembles scientific positivism or empiricism.

>>13744784
>You're not describing materialism
The first sentence is about 'matter' as the fundamental substance. The second one is explaining how 'matter' is an abstraction, a human thought product.
>scientific positivism or empiricism.
Not mutually exclusive.

>>13743605
Neutral Monism is God tier.

>>13743605
fuck your hegelian bullshit
true materialist tradition is spinozan

>>13744475
this is not what materialism means. You're trying to ascribe some empiricist nature to the base concept of a tangible and physical world and the connections and consequences of said connections it presents.

>>13744582
>less is more
Anon I don't even think it's a thousand words, short stories are longer than that post

>>13744595
*Searle blocks your path*

>>13745135
Spinoza was not a materialist, he believed in a monist substance with infinite attributes (God)

>>13744257
>>13744475
Both of you are cringe

>>13744605
>Leftism can lead to improvements in society, like the fight for better working conditions during the 19th and 20th century. Now it is purely a regressive and dangerous ideology,
Cultural leftism today is Capitalism Vanguard. Americans have a mental block about this fact. They are clearly behind western europa regarding the understanding of what is cultural leftism.

>>13744533
just don't be a nigger bro it's fairly easy