/lit/ - Literature

>>13667694
Skip aristotle and just read his wiki. Go to neoplatonism

>>13667831
don't listen to this faggot OP, he doesn't read books

>>13667694
All you need to know is Aristotle's laws of logic are for retarded randpilled brainlets

>>13667873
not bad ones

>>13667890
Name one logical system that's not for mouthbreathing retards.

>>13667694
So long as you read slowly, take notes, and read Categories first, you shouldn't have too many problems. Some of the more syllogistic-heavy treatises like the Analytics may be difficult, and there are some nigh-incomprehensible passages that remain the subject of debate even today in the Metaphysics, but overall you should not feel intimidates. Just take it slowly

>>13667694
those books look like they're really uncomfortable to read

>>13668140
The Analytics is not particularly difficult, but it is EXTREMELY boring.
Physics/Metaphysics feels kinda like the way most people would probably think stuff works like if they didn't know about the basics of atomic theory, friction, free fall, wind resistance, fluid dynamics, electrodynamics, etc.
Anybody with a Roman Catholic upbringing will probably be familiar with Aristotle's metaphysics and virtue ethics, as incorporated into Church dogma and popular theology discussions.

>>13668154
Aristotle's hella uncomfortable to read, regardless of whether you're carrying around copies of his works on your lightweight Kindle or if you're carrying around a printed, hardcover cover version of his works.
For anybody living in the contemporary Western world, his works feel like they oughta be titled "A Systematic Exposition of Unremarkable Ideas that may be Regarded as Common Sense".

Skip the Organon. It's pure autism. Just start with Poetics or Rhetoric.

>>13668108
buddhist one

>>13668108
>mouthbreathing
Is that a common instult, that I as a ESL just don't get? We were born to breathe through our mouths, I don't understand how the right way of breathing could be seen as retarded.

>>13668406
Breathing through your nose looks more dignified than standing around with your mouth gaping open like a bumpkin

>>13668406
Mouthbreather vs nosebreather

>>13668108
existential graphs

>>13667694
Just read it faggot. Funny because I just finished reading Metaphysics today. Already read Ethics, Poetics, Politics, Organon, Physics and On the Soul. Next I'll read Rhetoric. What else am I missing, bros?

>>13668406
Mouthbreathing isn't normal friend.
https://www.besthealthmag.ca/best-you/oral-health/mouth-breather/

>>13668230
There's nothing "unremarkable" about his eternal mover. Re-read Metaphysics XII.

>>13668406
>what is a nose

>>13668191
here

https://vocaroo.com/i/s1PNE6yCyWYr

>>13667694
>I read the first few pages of the online preview and realized I’ll definitely need to approach it differently.
realized a different author has a different voice? you'll be fine lad just read, take notes if you please.

>>13670356
More that it opens with the Organon. Closest Plato ever got to that kind of rigorous examination of logic was Parmenides.
That said I’m guessing that the rest isn’t quite as intense.

>>13667694
>Implying you understood Plato
As he states in Letter VII, his doctrine is not capable of being expressed in words and must be experientially apprehended by the student.

>>13671238
That is to say, Plato's true doctrine is not contained in the dialogues, because he did not write it down since it is ineffable. It can only be personally learned through theurgy. If you read Plato and thought you understood Plato's doctrine from the text then you did not understand Plato.

>>13668406
Breathing through your mouth is actually really bad because it'll fuck up your facial development, including your teeth, nose, and jaws. It's not pseudoscience, it's actually a really bad thing to do

Only Aristotle's techne is worth reading, otherwise he's a "always half-wrong but useful tool", his 'use' is not needed to be read directly, a secondary source is easily enough.

>>13671308
Read Alexander of Aphrodisiacs.
Or the series: Philosophy of the Commentators by Sorabji; or his "Aristotle Transformed".

>>13668406
>We were born to breathe through our mouths
I hope you didn't believe this while growing up.

>>13671291
That’s in keeping with the general sort of metaphysical ideas that he had but at the same time aren’t some of the letters of very dubious authorship? Fairly sure I’ve heard that at least a few are confirmed forgeries.

I found that "Aristotle - the desire to understand" by Jonathan Lear, which I read parallel to reading Aristotle, helped me tremendously.

>>13667694
Mortimer Adler - Aristotle for Everybody
Cambridge Companion for Aristotle
Ingemar Düring - Aristotle
Werner Jaeger - Aristotle
George Grote - Aristotle

have fun, OP

>>13671321
>>13672609
>>13672649
And thirty replies in we have some proper answers. Thanks guys, appreciate it.

>>13672465
Letter VII is the only one that is considered to be possibly authentic.

>>13672708
I guess I’ll start learning geometry then

>>13672762
>tfw trying to read Euclid's Elements and realizing that you're a retard

Here's some of the ones I found especially helpful.

W.D. Ross's Complete Exposition
Introduction to Scholastic Metaphysics by Edward Feser
The One and the Many by Norris Clarke
Aquinas's Ethics: Metaphysical Foundations by Rebecca DeYoung
After Virtue by MacIntyre
Trivium by Sister Miriam Joseph

There's also quite a few commentaries by Aquinas and they were written to help his contemporaries understand Aristotle. Almost all are available for free here:

https://dhspriory.org/thomas/

>>13668320
There's nothing logical about it

>>13672920
>tfw read Euclid's Elements and felt like I could become a professional mathematician, but then I remembered that Euclidean geometry is elementary school-level mathematics.

>>13673980
The way they teach geometry in high school is usually just giving you formulas with no explanation. Understanding the meaning behind said formulas as you would after reading the Elements seems like it'd be a greater feat than passing geometry class.

>>13668108
Shapiroean Logic (and Facts)

>>13667694
I can't sympathize. I've always viewed the Socratics as dull but unchallenging reads.
>>13668230
Retard

>>13674448
>I went to HARVARD
>I studied LAW there
>I AM THE FACT
hard pass

>>13674514
>socratics
>dull
Low test detected

>>13674448
>doesn't use correct pronouns with trans people because "facts don't care about your feelings"
>probably would refer to adopted parents as parents instead of guardians despite the fact that facts do not care about the feelings of the adopters and adoptees

>>13667831
>>13667890
>>13668108
>>13668230
>>13668248
>t. brainless filtered by the organon