/lit/ - Literature

lets hope so

Libtards will.

>>13601333
They already have.

>>13601356
>He thinks liberals are leftists
God damn the New Left really fucking sealed the fate of the whole movement didn't they? Fuck boomers man

>>13601361
The SJW scum ruined everything

>>13601333
Society is collapsing in the face of a man made environmental disaster. “Leftism”, IE the abandonment of capitalism, is our only hope for survival.
Statists imagine they’re the only ones who can organize the kind of manpower needed, but these power mad drips need to know when to let the people go to themselves. A balance, again, is what is needed in the immediate future/present

>>13601372
We will just change sources of energy
Thats all

>>13601367
Now what?

>>13601372
Real capitalism hasn't happened yet

>>13601386
>Technology will save us all*
>We just have to wait for the markets to produce a brilliant entrepreneurial spirit

*domestJcᴀted pMᴀɴts ᴀɴd ᴀɴJmᴀMs oɴMʏ

>>13601420
Just watch as world burns

>>13601434
What stage of capitalism are you referring to?

>>13601442
Tell us what to do oh, smartest one

>>13601372
Communism has already won

>>13601453
Any proofs for this shit?

>>13601420
Google "the Old Left" and read some elementary shit. Even the Wikipedia page about the Old Left is useful.

The New Left fucked everything up with idealism and trying to mix classical liberalism with marxism. Also about half of the counterculture in the 60s and 70s was a literal psyop so there's that

>>13601470
>any proof for literal empirical history
The mental gymnastics that lolberts do to make capitalism and it's history control to their extremely narrow and self serving definition is fucking amazing

>>13601455
Not today. Check warosu for old posts

>>13601470
History books.

>>13601483
Which books?

Probably, but theyre not ruining anything good

>>13601491
Directly you could read Mandel’s book. I read Hobsbawm among others

>>13601498
Censorship, feminist cancer, causing gamergate shit is good for you?

>>13601507
>Still butthurt over “gamergate”

>>13601534
Yes i am, it is important

>>13601463
Fucking where
/pol/acks call the richest capitalist oligarchs in the world socialists/communists, as if it makes any fucking sense that the literal winners of capitalism ruling western civilization want to foment a revolution whose main goal would be executing them

>>13601446
I would have been fine if they had just let me keep my animes and videogames. If they had just left the geek subcultures alone.

>>13601552
They(oligarchs) just want to have unlimited power and leftist totalitarism will give it to them

>>13601566
We live in society

>>13601333
Why didn't you listen to Adorno, /lit/? You could've prevented this. It's all your fault.

>>13601552
No, they don't. They say that people like Soros use the modern left as puppets to further their own goals.

For example Soros is sponsoring many of the NGOs that use shuttle traffic of the coast of Libya to bring in immigrants, in the name of humanity, meanwhile /pol/ means Soros goals are keeping salaries down and causing a didunited populace to make future resistance more difficult.

In the time you spend complaining about leftist boogeymen on /lit/ you could be reading an essay by montaigne

to answer that you need to understand what leftism is and to look at history.
the terms left-right began to get used during the french revolution where the ones that were for the peasantry and the common men sat on the left while the ones that were for the elite sat on the right. the ones that sat on the furthest left wanted the king's head on a pitchfork while the ones on the farthest right wanted to worship the king's balls etc.
as we see the two main features of the left are:
1. the interests of the peasantry/common men/the 99% to be above all
2. opposition to status quo when it opposes the peasantry.
you can draw your conclusions from here to who is leftist, who is liberal and who is a radlib.
before you jump to talk about American "revolution" and how rightist politics also care about the common man you need to understand that America at that time was 86% bourgeois/land owners hence the focus on ownership rights and no steppy on snake. but at the end just like everywhere in the world it succumbed to the rules of capitalism and the population grew, the elite took over and the 86% shrank to the 1% (soon the 0.1%) by driving others out of business, monopolizing, etc

>>13601372
Only through a strong state can the coming environmental disaster be averted. This is actually the best argument for the left right now. Don't fuck things over with your bullshit.

They already have. Hundreds of years ago, in fact.

>>13601372
you are not even close to what is essential

>>13601586
This is all correct except for the didnu global monoculture part because populations are dropping everywhere, even in Africa. They're still above replacement in Africa right now and higher than the average but in another 10-20 years they'll probably be about the same as Europe and the death rate will probably be higher too cuz of climate change and other shit. In America black and Latino women had even less babies than white women in the most recent birthrate drop

Muh great replacement is literally just a shitty explanation for the refugee crisis, which has largely been exacerbated purposefully and used as an opportunity but not too wipe out white people but to flood Europe with cheap sources of labor
America has been doing the same shit with Mexico for decades, when you want to lower wages you become tolerant on immigration and when you have enough new labor to do so you tighten the grip again. Trumps hardline on Mexican immigration is just a continuation of shit Obama and Bush were already doing to stem the tide of a large amount of immigrants coming into North America after NAFTA raped the Mexican agricultural economy.

To be clear im against open borders I just think the rationale for why one should be against them is economic rather than ethnic supremacy or some shit

>>13601650
A more democratic state could help, but only if we ditch capitalism. MLists need to give more responsibility to the people directly. China isn’t even doing it yet.

>>13601677
What’s that supposed to mean?

Also Soros is a massive piece of shit but he isn't special. Nobody should be allowed to have a net worth over a billion dollars and the only reason people are just now starting to push back on it is because boomers are finally beginning to fucking die out and with them their retarded "b-but if a millionaire can't become a millionaire that somehow goes against MY freedom! Muh stupid Koch brothers propaganda about limitless growth on a finite planet" etc

"Leftism" is the merely a modern term we call the necessary antidote for the concentration of wealth that naturally develops when liberty is unrestricted and the natural difference between human ability does it's work. It's best when this is applied through peaceful reforms, as did Solon in Athens, or FDR in America, than through violent revolution, as the Jacobins did in France and the Bolsheviks in Russia. It is worst, above all, when the elites use their power to block the reform, then we end up with years, maybe decades of civil war that end up bringing political, maybe even social collapse, as in the crisis of Republican Rome.

>>13601577
No, this makes no fucking sense
Inciting hatred against themselves and trying to encourage a revolution against themselves when they already do have unlimited power is just nonsense
>>13601586
This is a much more nuanced opinion and one I actually agree with, but if you try to have a conversation about how genuine leftism was coopted and declawed to further the goals of these people, /pol/ flips shit and acts like leftism was always about muh trannie bathrooms even in 19th century europe

>>13601372
So you're saying all we have to do is switch to nuclear energy and outlaw the meat industry and we'll no longer have any need for leftism?

>>13601732
Why does there have to be absolutely zero meat? Like we can do away with factory farming for sure

>>13601732
Not that guy but his point is that endless expansionism for a growing population on a finite planet is a terrible fucking idea that has to hit a wall eventually.
Leftist thought on this is generally that profit-seeking expansionist capitalism will never willingly apply the brakes, so whatever branch of the left's implementation you like (generally violent revolution unless you're some Labour/DSA pussy) will need to apply them forcefully.
The only right-wing answers to this I know of are ecofascism (which nobody I've ever spoken to genuinely subscribes to) and a vague hope that capitalist innovation in technology will miraculously fix it.

>>13601333
it made society more annoying, but i haven't even seen any ruin.
meanwhile the incel/nazi hybrids are murdering people left and right

>>13601333
Just as much as rightism.

>>13601776
Well there's also strasserism but they usually just infiltrate and settle for leftist groups anyway cuz there hasn't been a significant strasseist organization anywhere in the west since like the 1970s

>>13601794
I know very little about Strasserism but if they're that unpopular then I guess you could lump them in with ecofash

>>13601776
Technology WILL fix it.
We've been aware of our effect on the planet for little time yet we're already making leaps in term of innovations and inventions. Those same innovations will then be applied to freeze our planet into a single, eternal heat age, in order to prevent natural climate change. Green energies will be used to travel the star, with autonomous drones carrying humans DNA and who will create clones uppn arriving at their destinations. I hope I live long enough to have a younger version of myself setting up a base on Venus.

>>13601333
the divide will
someone is making a killing convincing each half of america that the other half is evil

>>13601759
The meat industry is one of the biggest contributors to climate change. If the population were drastically decreased then I could see the argument for meat, or if meat were reserved as a luxury for the rich, but right now it seems contradictory to me to be both an environmentalist and a supporter of the meat industry.

>>13601650
>He has zero faith in engineers and scientists
LMAOing at how you've fallen for the psyops

>>13601821
You're ignoring the fact that it's, at best, an arms race.
We've only been aware of our environmental impact for a brief period, but in that same brief period technology has also given rise to, what, half a dozen possible complete doomsday scenarios that could literally end the human race? Two centuries ago only an act of God could do that, now antibiotics could if we aren't careful.
Technology could solve the problem, or if uncontrolled it could directly cause it. Will the mystical power of the invisible hand incentivise somebody to fix climate change in time to solve it? It's a complete gamble.

>>13601361
Left liberals are leftists no matter how embarrassed they make you feel.

>>13601814
Strasserism became relatively popular in the west after ww2 for how obscure it is and there were a few orgs in Europe and certain factions of the American neo Nazi movement adopted a strasserist approach in the 90s. This shit was probably it's peak:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Democratic_Party_of_Germany

Strasserists generally think Hitler blew it by collaborating too much with the German elites and not properly purging them and restructuring the German state. They also tend to have a critical view of the Holocaust if they believe it happened and think an alliance with the Soviet Union rather than an attempt to conquer it would have kept America out of both Europe and the East and thus both ww2 and the cold war could have been avoided and capitalism could have had a more significant challenger. They also aren't actually racist they just think the world ought to be a unipolar network of autonomous nation states and that if capitalism didn't exist people who give a shit about fighting for rights outside of their homelands cuz the majority of people would stay where they were born due to the lack of necessity for free and constant movement of labor and capital. So in a sense they believe in ethno states but they don't think you can create one by fighting the minorities within a nation and bullying or genociding them out cuz they wouldnt be there in the first place if it wasn't for capitalism.

I know all this cuz I flirted with Strasserism for a while before becoming a Marxist-Leninist. In principle I wouldn't mind working with them but most people who buy into Strasserism are fine working with even reformist groups a lot of the time cuz 1) they arent actually racist just nationalists and 2) anti-zionism is more institutionalized on the mainstream left than right nowadays and they see the decline of Israel as an important step in crushing capitalism and globalism so they basically engage in realpolitik. Also Strasserists tend to see Arab socialists and nationalists as brothers in arms so they don't mind supporting Muslims a lot of the time but that kind of depends on the person

>>13601892
So can /pol/ stop crying about how the Left is running the country cuz republicans aren't"true" right wingers

>>13601372
can you fuck off to bunkerchan already? nobody wants you here

>>13601849
>Stem will save us all
As somebody who just got a stem degree you're retarded if you think they're going to deus ex machina the human race from certain death
The coming renaissance of biotech could go well or a million tiny things could go very very wrong

>>13601821
yes, we're the meat puppet army created by the elite to achieve this goal. Scientific data is our most valuable output. It will provide the answers to overcome any obstacle for them.
Wait, what ?
You thought they were going to invite you to colonize Mars with them ?

Imagine thinking leftists have any kind of power in the west

>>13601902
What's the matter /pol/ I thought you loved free speech and le marketplace of ideas

>>13601893
That sounds strikingly similar to everything I believe
If you had experience with it, were the people in these organizations genuine believers of these tenets or just looking for something to cling their radicalism to?

>>13601470
Yeah it's called looking around lmao

Why is this on the literature board?

>>13601939
/pol/ is every board now and if you try to tell them to fuck off they pretend 4chan came into existence when they got here in 2016 and was always like this

>>13601933
I've only had experience with Strasserists online and they usually fall into 1 of 2 camps
Genuine believers who truly think the Strasser bros would have built a utopia in Germany
Former /pol/ fags who get redpilled on capitalism but are too scared to go full socialist right away so they become Strasserists for a while before eventually evolving into Marxist-Leninists it's kind of how trans people in denial start wearing dresses and shit as a "joke" before deciding to bite the bullet and just start trying to become a girl or whatever

>>13601960
What changed and got you leaning towards ML? I haven't read enough theory to really consider what I would side myself with yet because I'm being an autist and getting all the way through philosophy chronologically to Hegel before I start Marx

>>13601923
butterfly the tranny namefag belongs in his natural habitat. He's free to stay here but that also makes me free to tell him to fuck off. He's a fucking pseud

leftism is the political expression of entropy
entropy always wins: dissolution is certain

>>13601732
>nuclear energy

Only nuclear fusion is viable for long term sustainability and that has been "only just a few years aways" for about 40 years. No magic science man is going to be able stop the car on the verge of exploading.

We are fucked, the best thing you can do is spend the rest of your years learning how to farm.

>>13601982
Lenin actually said it took him 2 years of studying Hegel on a regular basis before he gully understood Marxism so you're probably on the right track.

Personally I was an anarchist in my youth and then as I got older I started getting really disgusted with identity politics and postmodern nonsense becoming so prominent on the Left so I became more like a Libertarian Party type and then sort of fucked around with/pol/ ideology when it started to get more mainstream (although I never went full Hitlerite or aanarcho capitalist for some reason). Then I started going to leftypol around the time of the 2016 election to shitpost and it started to turn me back towards the Left when I started to get a grasp on materialism and the history of IdPol infecting and making the American left into an embarrassment (largely at the behest of intelligence organizations btw). Then I read Blackshirts and Reds by Michael Parenti and the State and Revolution by Lenin and I just started to realize that 1) even if "Stalin did nothing wrong" memes aren't true the picture of the Bolshevik revolution and the Soviet Union that gets painted in the West isn't historically accurate and 2) that I more or less agreed with Lenin's basic ideas about how the vanguard arises in a revolutionary scenario, what it should do, and how the State should be reconstructed so that it can follow a path towards gradual self negation etc (although as any Marxist Leninist will tell you what Lenin wrote and what he ultimately did, along with the Stalin era, are two different things although they arent entirely different).

As far as giving up on Strasserism I realized it was a dead end when I started reading about the Arab socialists. For some reason it took seeing it in practice to get me to realize that strasserism is economically basically just a mixture of the Prussian welfare state with guild socialism, which in theory isn't bad but can't sustain itself due to essentially just being social democracy in practice.

There's some other shit like realizing I wasn't actually against multiculturalism I just hate PC culture and shit like that but that's basically the long and short of my personal story on the matter. I still kind of agree with Strasserists that if capitalism didn't exist most people would stay where they were born and that it would be better for them, along with traditions remaining etc I just don't think it should be something that's enforced but something that emerges organically as the State withers

>>13601372
I think you meant to say national socialism.

>>13602069
You sound like you'd be an interesting guy to get a drink with anon
I'll read both of those

>>13601372
Marxism-Leninism is needed but I disagree society is collapsing because of environmental disaster. Internal contradictions are primary, not external ones.

>>13601722
>jeff bezos and warren buffet are superhumans who have the productive power of thousands of people
you really chugged down that neoliberal koolaid didn't you?

>>13601960
I can't believe that a /pol/ fag would ever convert to ML unless he wasn't serious about his ideology in the first place. The social aspects of Strasserism and ML are just so different.

>>13601333
No. They’ll try their best though.

>>13602102
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7trXEFcZimVSVBfdjl4M1VRUW8/view?usp=drivesdk
Here's one for Blackshirts and reds, it's a history book so you can read it right away if u want

https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/
Here's state and revolution I believe there is a pdf there as well

>>13602110
They are psychopatic manipulators who managed to rise at the top at their game and use their power to make other people do things for them. Which by itself is a sign of remarkable ability. Few people are born to be psychopatic manipulators.