/lit/ - Literature

>>13600615
No because the Jews that write all their books aren’t interested in anything else

>>13600615
Cane by Jean Toomer is the closest I've read. It talks about black experiences in the 20's but not really in a "race relations" sort of way. It should be considered for it's artistic beauty first and foremost. Not being completely devoted to racism is probably why it's one of the least read books from the Harlem Renaissance. Other than that, I haven't seen anything.

>>13600615
Well African-Americans have been subjected to centuries of slavery, discrimination, and oppression. Black millennial's parents experienced Jim Crow and redlining first hand. Oppression is quite integral to the black american experience. It's the same reason women write about oppression too; it's part of their identity.

Didn’t Marlon James come out with a fantasy book recently? Anyone read it?

>>13600668
>Anyone read it?
You're on a far-right website. If you think anyone here would deign to read a book from a black person you're delusional.

>>13600678
Someone already posted a book by a black person. Try to keep up

I want to slide my dick between her tits and in her deep belly button. She probably smells like cocoa butter and Arby's.

>>13600678
>wanting to post anonymously and talk about books somewhere besides a discord book club or reddit makes me alt-right
I forgot that, good thing you reminded me though.

>>13600706
>America is a Christian country
>WAIT, BUT I'M AMERICAN? ARE YOU SAYING I'M CHRISTIAN?

Check some music bios

>scifi
Delany is supposed to be black, or so I heard

>>13600668
I'm assuming jamaican isn't what you have in mind when you say americans otherwise his previous novel would qualify as not race bait

>>13600615
Memórias póstumas de Brás Cubas

>>13600698

>>13600712
When will you learn, anon, post your selfies on /soc/ there are no dicks for you to suck here.

>>13600638
>part

>>13600615
Plato has some pretty good stuff I've heard.

>>13600620
This

Was Pushkin black?

Check out Shakespeare OP

>>13600810
Read Fanon.

>>13600615
there are black soft sci fi authors, but they literally wirll write time travel books about slavery and racism

>>13600830
Yeah but he's also German. The black thing kind of cancels out the German bits, so the Russians felt okay adopting him. If he'd just been German, someone would have shot him in a duel sooner.

>>13600877
Checked and thanks.

>>13600877
What, did russians like black people?

>>13600887
They were exotic things you could steal off Turks, like Chechnya. Germans on the other hand were annoying, which is why Russia regularly tries to take Poland off them for Poland's own good.

>>13600715
Delany is black, yes. Other non-SJW black authors are Langston Hughes and Walter Mosley (genre fiction, though).
>>13600638
>It's the same reason women write about oppression too; it's part of their identity.
Partly true, of course. But I’d say a bigger reason is that “oppression” is what the market demands. “Oppression” sells.
>>13600678
>You're on a far-right website.
You’re delusional.

>>13600830
>Was Pushkin black?
No. One of his great-grandfathers was black, which made him (in the parlance of the day) an octoroon. Alexandre Dumas, who had a black grandmother, was a quadroon. Attempts by modern SJWs and identity fanatics to claim both as “black” are blatant attempts at appropriation and, when considered dispassionately, hilarious throwbacks to the racial theories of the 18th and 19th centuries which they claim to despise.

>>13600615
Ayo didn't the chick who won the scifi writing award last year be black?

>>13601027
>Octoroon
Russians didn't use this system. Pushkin calls himself many kinds of black (Abyssinian, arap (black moor)) but Dumas would have used the French system, which still made him not wholly European (métis), in the same way a lot of colonial children were seen. However Dumas would have used the French spelling, quarteron.

>>13600678
>You're on a far-right website
good jest comrade

>>13600615
THIS. I was just looking for some books yesterday to respond to a thread asking for good books written by African Americans.

I ended up seeing that virtually every one of them only had written books with a premise surrounding around their struggles being an African American.

It’s bizarre to say the least because there’s literally a massive timeline of struggles surrounding nearly every demographic, but the selection of works for almost all of them isn’t so polarized as it is with black authors.

I’m starting to get a really odd feeling that their unique history has made them into almost a cult of identity which stifles any dissenting or unique looks at life both real and fiction.

>>13600830
He looks white for me

>>13600615
>Do black people not write about anything but how bad it is being black
Iceberg Slim wrote one about passing for white

>>13600615
>famous books written by african american authors that aren't about racism or something associated with it
James Baldwin's Giovanni's Room is about white people in Paris. The white people are gay though, so if you think being gay is somehow associated with racism through some convoluted conspiracy theory then idk.

>famous fantasy or scifi black author
There are lots. Look up "afrofuturist literature" Octavia Butler is the most famous. Lots of her scifi is about racism though.

Actually a lot of scifi and fantasy is about racism because it's easy to use alien race relations or race relations between mythical creatures as analogies for human race relations.

>>13601271
>easy to use alien race relations
To be fair, HG Wells being around when the scientific eugenics people were just taking off kind of ruined the genre being used for most anything else.

>>13601213
He was white, though he had a black grandfather who was quite an interesting individual. IMHO Pushkin didn’t identify as black; his references to himself as arap, etc. seem more an attempt to establish that he was descended from aristocracy as well as the aristocratic circle (as this same black grandfather was a favorite of Peter the Great). I think current efforts to identify him as black are part and parcel of the “we wuz kangz” nonsense.

>>13601689
No he chose to be black because the other side of his aristocratic background was German and Swedes. Black > German or Swedish in Russia. People might mistake you for French or Turkish that way.

The only way for a Black person to avoid being seen as aggressive and angry by white people is to develop a servile and obedient uncle Tom persona. Anything not explicitly docile, sexless and harmless is seen as a threat.
Why would you write literature in that voice?

>>13601830
To stop young bloods getting georgia'd by the first ho he knows. It's a noble calling.

>>13600678
>far-right

You aren't the entire website pleb

>>13601793
Any cite for this?
>>13601830
The only way for a black person to avoid being seen as servile and an Uncle Tom by other black people is to develop an aggressive and angry persona. Anything not explicitly hostile, sex-laden and harmful is seen as a threat.
Why would you write literature in that voice?

>>13600620
/thread

>>13600615
THE SECRET OF SELLING THE NEGRO(1954)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8PBrhFN35c

>>13601874
>Why would you write literature in that voice?
its certainly more compelling than sexless harmlessness.
>The central premise surrounding the book as a whole is the trouble of "identification as a black soul which has been 'colonized'... by an oppressive white society that projects its brief, narrow vision of life as eternal truth."[7] Cleaver uses the informal essays to navigate through the history and present state of America, covering topics such as the murders of Malcolm X and Emmett Till; the race riots and Vietnam War; U.S. Foreign Policy and the American Flag; Muhammad Ali, Martin Luther King, Jr. and other "black celebrities;" Richard Wright's Native Son; Islam and Christianity; day-to-day prison life; and the relationship between black men and white women.[8] In the book, Cleaver admitted to raping black girls as a "practice run" before seeking white women as prey, but claims that in jail he had come to consider those acts as inhuman and, inspired by Malcolm X, had repudiated racism.The text also included homophobic criticism of the writings of the black novelist James Baldwin

>>13601874
>Any cite for this?
Russian history? Pushkin saw himself as black is pretty undisputed (an author who says he feel brotherhood and pity for his fellow Negroes enslaved in America is kind of hard to not cite as claiming to be black), but Russia has a ranking of enemies that places the Turks above the Germans in terms of "worthiness". The Russian court also loved the French, which is why everything looks like The Sun King on a decorating spree and why Pushkin writing mostly in Russian vernacular was such a novel thing. He can't pretend he's French but he tried his very best to be known as a black Russian descendant whose black ancestor came via Turks, rather than be known as any amount of German.

I’ve seen Pimp by Iceberg Slim being shilled a bit on here, does that touch on racism?

Wilson Harris
Derek Walcott

approved by TS Eliot and New Criterion respectively

but both are not Americans

>>13601956
Not much. Capitalism doesn't really care for the colour of your skin.

>>13600615
Literature from the Francophone African countries is quite nice, universal. Achebe ruined English-language African lit, sad to say.

>>13600620
fpbp

>>13600620
It really do be like that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strange_Fruit#Poem_and_song

>>13601964
I’m starting to think that it’s the american part of african americans that’s the problem.

The fiction works of Samuel R. Delany that I have actually read heavily feature black characters, but aren't remotely focused on race. But I haven't read all his stuff and I do know that he addressed race in various articles over the years. Like this one: https://www.nyrsf.com/racism-and-science-fiction-.html

Well, if you're the one black guy at the sci-fi conventions, you're gonna have to talk about it some, but he doesn't dwell on race. If anything, he dwells on faggotry, which might be as annoying to some.

>>13601929
So, no evidence at all? One would think, given the many attempts to claim him as black over the years, that something substantive would be available. It seems more that he occasionally alluded to being black as a marketing ploy, and more often as a way to link himself to a famous ancestor who he claimed came from royalty and was a favorite of Peter the Great.
>an author who says he feel brotherhood and pity for his fellow Negroes enslaved in America
Given that Pushkin owned serfs, this seems more to be proof of hypocrisy than evidence that he systematically identified as black.
>>13601913
>its certainly more compelling than sexless harmlessness
You’re aware that there are more than two paths to take in literature, right? You’re also aware that if one path is overwhelmingly chosen over any other, that the resultant works risk becoming trite and hackneyed?

>>13600615
There's an entire genre of "urban fiction" that is often about romance/sex and the like, not race. There are some novels, I'm chiefly thinking Beloved, that feature elements of racism but are ultimately about something greater.

>>13600698
Please masturbate, ejaculate and then come back to read what you just have written with your own,sinful hands.
>>13600615
Black "people" are incapable of creative thinking, much less critical or ethical thinking. Since Tyson most likely has a ghostwriter too, but at least he is capable of shitposting and convincing people to do STEM.

The only thing non-American blacks were capable of writing something noteworthy without "ayo muh oppreshon n reparushons *smacks lips*" was The Epic of Sundiata".
But if we are strictly talking about african americans, no and never will be.

>>13602054
>You’re aware that there are more than two paths to take in literature, right?
>the point
>you
You perceive everything not written as explicitly servile and sexless as aggressive and angry. It's not that it actually is aggressive and angry, it's just that's how you perceive any communication from black people which isn't framed in such a way as to make you feel superior.

>>13600638
Wouldn't that just create positive feedback loop of producing more content that enforces their oppressed victim identity, which in turn produces more content that enforces their oppressed victim identity...?

https://soundcloud.com/reelanceutist/freelances-bongo-bongo-bookclub-thugs-cry-2-part-two-three-hours-in-the-african-oven

There most certainly is

>>13602054
All of his German ancestors were royalty, with more legitimacy in Europe than his ancestor. He linked himself with the ancestor elevated from Turkish slavery because being black was considered better than being German. It doesn't work as a marketing ploy unless the audience believes that. If they believe being a German aristocrat (which he was 250% more so than black) is better than being black, why larp as a black man?
It's not evidence of hypocrisy. It's evidence Russians acknowledge Americans are importing African aristocratic slaves like him and he objects to that, but assuming he is against serfdom, or using slavs for their intended role, or that he thinks everyone is equally aristocratic is not evidenced. He doesn't just compare himself to black African slaves in America, but blacks under Arab rule, and Abyssinians.

>>13600638
LMAO just get over it, it's 2019

>>13602178
than his ^black^ ancestor

>>13602132
LOL, all I did was switch around the terms in your little rant, which should have alerted you to the fact that you were making sweeping generalizations based on nothing more than your own prejudices. But this point soared far over your head, doubtless because you’re so eager to project your own shortcomings onto everybody else.

>>13602178
>being black was considered better than being German
I doubt this very much, which is why I asked you if there’s any evidence of this.
>It’s not evidence of hypocrisy
Of course it is. Bemoaning slavery in another country while owning serfs (the equivalent of slaves) in your own is hypocrisy. It had nothing to do with a belief that slaves in America were aristocrats.

>>13602176
Is this Nazis reading erotic black fiction?

>>13602253
Why does Elena make sure that Catherine is from such a shitty tiny German branch she would never pick home over Russia even though Russia is being ruled by Elena? When bigger better alliances with any other German branch could easily be achieved? Why does Russia keep invading Poland figure half of Prussia is still theirs? They only helped liberate the Germans from Napoleon because fuck Napoleon, but any alliance they have formed has been a matter of convenience where Russia generally got Riga into the bargain with the Polish plain and Ukraine, and Russia generally forms an alliance with everyone else against the Germans soon after that. Even being Turkish, who they are still actively fighting with, was seen as better than that. Same with the Swedes. I don't see how your ignorance of slavs and Teutons beating the shit out of each other like it's going out of style is somehow proof Pushkin would have been more esteemed for being German Swedish born princeling when Russian is actively invading their territories.
He's bemoaning slavery of aristocrats, which serfs are not. He's not alone in this: Dickens complains the only white Americans with any manners are the southern children raised by black nannies who are familiar with rules of court.

>>13602029
OP here
Thats why I specified. I'm sure in other parts of the world there are plenty of black people doing good writing. It just seems like anything coming out of america is just "MUH SLAVERY MUH GHETTO MUH OPPRESSION!"

Which yeah, part of history and everything but it struck me as really odd that I saw literally NOTHING but that.

>>13600846
DAS RITE

>>13600678
sad day when no one on le high iq board understands topical satire

>>13602356
>He's bemoaning slavery of aristocrats, which serfs are not.
Nor were slaves in the Americas. To believe that they all (or even a majority of them) were aristocrats is ridiculous.
>black nannies who are familiar with rules of court.
Again, nonsense. The idea that slaves in the US were familiar with the rules of courtly conduct is laughable.

>>13600615
Not broadly famous but Wrath James White writes horror. Also Samuel Delaney? He's a sci fi author right?

>>13600615
>>>/pol/

The reason why most african american books are about their struggle is because as other people in this thread have noted very recent and still an issue today. a struggle like that is literally what every aspiring writer secretly wants to experience because those types of tortured artist types historically make the most evocative/beautiful art. They want to see themselves under similar light and writing about their racial struggle is the easiest and most tangible part of their tortured identity.

>>13602693
Here's the thing though: I was wondering if this was actually some form of ironic racism.

Stay with me here: If every major or famous book created by an african american is one about slavery or oppression then we're essentially keeping them in an intellectual and perspective ghetto. Like, think about it: What if every book written by a white person was nothing but biographies and histories of WWII? Wouldn't that dramatically effect the way white people viewed themselves and their place in the world? If you take a culture and feed it nothing but stories about how they are abused, oppressed, mistreated, imprisoned, etc, then that is the identity they form for themselves. And with that identity they cannot succeed in doing anything but that, or at least that's gonna be a major viewpoint.

I wondered if the obsession with slavery and oppression and such was something that the african american community itself was creating, or if it was more the result of publishers being uninterested in publishing anything but that.

>>13602701
I don't think that's necessarily true. Writers like Plato and Sophocles had relatively priveleged lives and still wrote great things. Writing about oppression is political literature, which is usually not very good but is still read because it's deemed important for a limited period of time. Julio Cortazar admitted that his political novels were his worst writing.

leon forrest

>>13600620
Beyond based

>>13600638
Yes Dostoevsky had a very easy life and was never exploited. Most great art comes from degenerates spit out by society. Blacks can't think as individuals, so its no wonder every book is the same muh racism bullshit. Fuck you anon.

>>13601213
He does look a bit mutty, swarthier that the average Russian. They probably assumed he was part Turk or a Tatar or something.

Their Eyes Were Watching God by Zora Neale Hurston. The characters experience period-typical oppression but the book is more essentially about the main character's personal journey. Very beautifully written.

>>13600668
I read it. He does an excellent job world building a high-fantasy (medieval) Africa, but the plot is just... a lot. Very difficult to follow. Worth the read though.

>>13602000
>cherrypicking this desperately

>>13600615
Malcolm Gladwell has written a bunch of somewhat interesting pop-psych books

>>13600638
>it's part of their identity
This.
>>13602183
Planning a shooting, dumb Anglo?

>>13600615
>I've never seen a famous fantasy or scifi black author?
Samuel R. Delany is one of the most literary sci-fi writers ever.

>>13602660
>No no the asante definitely didn't round up their former rivals who had centuries of links with European courts THE EXPORT RECORDS ARE LYING DICKENS IS LYING
I think you're going to have a hard time erasing history at this point.

>>13600678
>You're on a far-right website
>falling for the media meme

>>13600615
not african nor american, but Dumas was a mulatto, a successful writer, and wrote about three things:
Pussy, money and Italian unification
And maybe revenge, but it sounds better with lists of three

>>13602101
Memorias postumas de bras cubas

>>13600615
Thomas Sowell

He pretty much puts a nail in every coffin raised by "muh racism" "muh privilege" "muh wage gape" "muh whatever the fuck"

truly based

>>13604973
The revenge is always about pussy or money or Italian unification/papal intrigue, so you're pretty cover with those three. Plus I'm pretty sure his dad was born to an African in Haiti (when it was French Saint Domingue) which you could spin as "American" in the same way Louisiana or Ohio or Canada could be considered American or French at the time.

>>13603972
Oh no Dostoyevsky didn't write anything about the plight of poor people did he?

>>13600615
There's that Delaney guy who writes books about child rape

>>13600615
Brandon Jones, The Diamond League

>>13602311
They are liberals

>>13600638
Women write about other things than oppression.

>>13605163
>There's that Delaney guy who writes books about child rape
Well, that and literal eating of literal shit.

I wish more women and blacks would write about more than just women and black stuff. Like, climb out of your own ass. I was going to write a new science fiction book and all the Marvel/Black Panther faux outrage was still fresh on everybody’s mind so I said “ok I was going to write this story anyway, (flips coin) ok the MC is a chick. (Flips coin again) ok they have dark skin. Oh look, The plot went down the exact same way. Fukkin noobs can’t get themselves off the starting blocks. I found this pic online and just modeled her after that. Big things happen when you get over yourself and commit to creating something

>>13600698
Came here to post this.

>>13605616

i want to fuck her more than anything else in this world

>>13605217
Yes, but the attention and awards go to the ones that don't.

>>13601027
If you get branded with silly words for having a single black ancestor then I think it's reasonable in the struggle against racism to include these people as "black" since they too were part of this system of oppression.

>>13604946
That a few allegedly “aristocratic” African blacks were included in a slave population of ~4 million is meaningless. To believe any of these slaves had an intimate knowledge of European court etiquette is ridiculous. You can repeat this nonsense as often as you like, but nonsense it remains until you produce a single shred of proof. Your Dickens “quote” also seems a product of your imagination; if it’s not, let’s have the source.
>>13604973
>Dumas was a mulatto
No, he was an octoroon. A mulatto by definition is half white. Dumas was one of the greatest authors of his time and certainly wrote about much more than the 3 things you list
>>13605657
>since they too were part of this system of oppression
Dumas and Pushkin weren’t oppressed, and they weren’t black.
>If you get branded with silly words for having a single black ancestor then I think it's reasonable in the struggle against racism to include these people as "black"
Two wrongs don’t make a right, anon. The belief that they do is one of the greatest failings of the modern left.

>>13605876
>Your Dickens “quote” also seems a product of your imagination; if it’s not, let’s have the source.
American Notes. You know the one which is meant to be a travelogue and then just ends in chapter upon chapter on slavery being wrong.

>>13605876
Dumas the octoroon is Dumas fils. Dumas fils wrote mostly about hookers.

>>13605883
>American Notes
I don’t think so. The words “nanny” or “nannies” don’t appear in the book at all. “Manners” as you described also does not appear. At best you’re paraphrasing, at worst you’re making it all up. I presume the latter, as you obviously have an axe to grind (as also shown by your misrepresentation of American Notes as containing chapter upon chapter about slavery — this is completely incorrect. There’s only one chapter in it on slavery, and that at its end).
>>13605909
Sorry, you’re correct. Dumas pere had a black grandfather, making him a quadroon. His son, as you rightly point out, was an octoroon. Dumas fils’ children were then hexadecaroons. The distinctions seem silly from this distance — I wonder, did they even extend to people who were one-thirtysecond black?

>>13606002
>could the paraphrase not in quotes possibly be a paraphrase and without quotation marks for a reason
It's almost like I gave no indication it was a direct quote. Wow. I like your assumption it doesn't exist, let's see how fast that gets your view taken above Dickens's in historiography of the Victorian era. I'm sure it's only the axe I'm grinding that makes reading the text necessary. I'm sure you'll freak when you get to the Choctaw being the person who can discuss literature best with Dickens, along with regretting the decision to mark only the final chapter as about slavery and ignore chapters which deal with his time in the epicentres of slavery. It's kind of sad you think you're not going to need to read the book to know it's contents. Good luck with the ctrlF approach to reading classic lit.

>>13606002
He's quateron, not Spanish. This discussion already happened above
>>13601027
>>13601106

>>13600615
This is identity paralysis.
They'll never transcend their old identity.

>>13606078
quaRteron.

>>13601037
Her books are all about race. She's even lamented this.

>>13606065
You stated that Dickens complains the only white Americans with any manners are the southern children raised by black nannies who are familiar with rules of court. This, on the face of it, is an outlandish and ridiculous claim and so it should be easy to precisely identify the source.

You state this was from American Notes. When told that nothing like this appears in American Notes, rather than proving me wrong — by providing the actual quote — you instead attempt to show off your so-called knowledge of the subject.

Your theories about millions of aristocratic black slaves in the Americas are garbage. Your claim about Dickens is a fabrication. You’re full of shit.

When a black character appears significantly in works of fiction by a white author, does he or she ever simply exist as a raceless, untethered subjectivity? Do they ever have the abstracted quality of the "default" white protagonist? You must confront the ramifications of this when evaluating work written by black people about black people.

>>13606169
>Dickens must love Americans and think they're really cool because no reason I just want to believe he would
Wtf is this? You clearly haven't read his shit and you want to pretend you know his views? You're a bigger sperger than his account of Andersen's visit to his home in London. You searched for a paraphrase rather than reading the text: that doesn't make your opponent wrong, that means you have to read the text or at least use a thesaurus. Your idea that you know what a book must contain because it must be the thoughts you were already comfortable with is incorrigible ignorance. You can think it a fabrication and everyone who reads the book can laugh at your weird beliefs, but I doubt you can see why your approach here fails.

>>13601830
Believe it or not white people can see more than two different personalities on non-whites. I don’t think most white people get instantly scared the second a black person talks to them and doesn’t refer to them mas “sir” or “master”

>>13606198
I’m asking for the source for one particular “quote.” You can’t provide it, though it should be easy given the nature of the “quote.” Therefore the “quote” is a fabrication, samefag. Put up or shut up.

>>13606219
I'm much happier with you going around telling people you think it's a totally made up theory and there is no such thing. Please tell as many people as possible, especially readers of Dickens. If you could put ads out saying you're an adventurous soul in search of a fellow man who loves Dickens to discuss it with, that would be excellent. Make special reference to your willingness to read him.

>>13604844
Cringe dubs
>>13602000
Based trips

I know who to listen to. Do You?

>>13605581
Aleluya amen bro, You're doing God's work. Aleluya

>>13606230
All of your “clever” retorts don’t hide the fact that you fabricated evidence to support your bizarre theories. You should be ashamed of yourself.

>>13606320
>If I say it often enough it becomes true
I doubt you can rewrite Dickens but commend you your efforts.

>>13606334
Put up or shut up, you pathetic lying faggot.

Read Erasure, by Percival Everett. The book is specifically about how the literary establishment only wants black writers to write "black" books. It's a semi-autobiographical novel about a black writer whose books are all selling horribly while a memoir called "We's Lives in Da Ghetto" is a nationwide bestseller, so the protagonist writes a satirical book-within-a-book designed to be as ghetto as possible, but audiences end up taking it seriously.

>>13606364
>Waaah the literature board wants me to read books instead of spoonfeedinb me
Precious.

>>13606375
Put up or shut up, you pathetic lying faggot.

>>13606386
>Read books for me
I already did. I'm not your quotemonkey and I've already summarised several parts. Read the fucking book if you want to know what Dickens says word for word. There is no other way about it.

>>13606394
I was reading Bleak House recently. In it, Dickens claims that you’re a pathetic lying faggot. Put up or shut up.

>>13600638
>Well African-Americans have been subjected to centuries of slavery, discrimination, and oppression
So have the Slavs, Finns, Balts and Hungarians.

>>13606412
>Please take all the references to Americans spitting and being thieves out of American notes for me
Totally already done that I'm sure you'll notice a change in the future text. I've also taken out all references to slavery, and the bit about Americans thinking liberty means shooting people at will.

>>13606435
Trying to change the subject? Still can’t admit that you made the whole thing up?

>>13606368
That sounds great, putting it in my to-read.

>>13606313
The question is, do you publish as a white male and be all like, you suck so much I have to write your demographic for you, or do you create a placebo “Shaniqua” and give them hope just to step on it afterwards?

>>13606451
I'm sure it's nowhere in the text, and any Dickens reader you talk to about it will not laugh in your face.

>>13606454
You should also check out Philip Roth’s The Human Stain. His take on more-or-less the same theme is pretty interesting.
>>13606457
>I'm sure it's nowhere in the text
I’m sure it’s nowhere in the text, too. Thanks for finally admitting that you misquoted the man. Let’s hope this moment of clarity marks a new, positive step for you.

>>13606416
Lie

>>13606503
I never quoted him and I'm sure you missed the first time when I told you you should find a man who loves Dickens to talk about how it never happens already.
This idea of it being a quote and not a paraphrase has only ever existed in your head because apparently everything anon says is a direct quote. Unfortunately for you, you seem to think you can bullshit your way around those who have read the text. It's how I can fit a passive reference at you being a dope replacing a black man who knew better about reading Dickens in an entirely separate author's body of works into this post and have you not see it, and how people who read will mock you to your face :^)

>>13605581
Cringe and normie pilled.

>>13606517
Delusional cope or bait?

Octavia e butler?

>>13606519
Regressing, are we?

You made a very specific and very unusual claim regarding the opinions of Dickens. Whether a direct quote or a paraphrase, such a claim should be easy to track down because it’s so unusual/specific. But there’s no evidence of this claim on the web, no evidence of it in American Notes, and no evidence in any of your posts despite multiple challenges to you to produce it.

The only possible conclusion is that you made the entire thing up. That you fabricated it. That you’re now posting seething word salads because you don’t have the guts to admit you made a mistake.

>>13606580
You can read the book and see his many comments on manners of the US populations of many great cities. You can see him call them brutal savages and describe Indians and blacks as more civilized from those he's met. Calling me a liar won't get rid of the book. I don't need to give you the quote, the book will still exist freely for people to read (much to Dickens' chagrin as the Americans still owe him money). You can check by reading the book, though you will probably find that to be word salad too. It is Dickens after all.

>>13600615
it's what sells

>>13606416
not as directly as blacks have. those groups were invaded. Also, they weren't enslaved since the middle ages.
The history of African-Americans is complete oppression, from start to finish. They were even removed from the history of their land and traditions of their people, deleting any sense of heritage they had before the atlantic slave trade.
this is a stupid comparison. in an age where this information can be found by skimming a wikipedia page, no one should be this dumb.

>>13600678
>muh homogeneous group
Just because everyone has the same name doesn't mean they agree, pendejo

>>13600637
He was very light skin though.

>>13605581
Her bf is white?

>>13606673
Yup. Pale chick with red hair like Merida from Brave.

>>13606696
Sorry BFF looks like Merida.The story passes the bechdel test. But she’ll eventually have a thing for a white clone boy named Mathison

>>13606416
Finns wrote nothing when they were enslaved, and even afterwards their canon is mostly about resisting oppressive powers

>>13606700
Also, I haven’t written the second book yet but the MC might not have a love interest at all. The red haired chick and the boy will likely be paired. They’re the respective “ ron and hermoine” of the trio

>>13606621
No one is contesting that Dickens criticized the Americans of the 1840’s. He was an Ameriboo suffering from cognitive dissonance, couldn’t handle the repeated intrusions into his privacy during his visit, and objected to the Americans pirating his books (though it wasn’t illegal at the time). Nor is anyone contesting the fact that he objected to slavery.

What you posted went way beyond all of that.

I come to /lit/ to talk about literature, not to get into tedious arguments. I don’t want to be mean-spirited or vindictive, so apologize to you if I was. I will simply assume that you mis-remembered, mis-thought, or simply suffered from an excess of pride. Have a nice day.

>>13606646
Slavs were slaves well into the 20th century.

>>13606740
Only he literally said that all southern women talk like their black nannies, and wrote an entire book about Americans being ill bred savages who are greedy and murderous and and have all the wrong impressions about writing and aristocracy, apart from Indians and blacks. He even literally says the place should be given back to the Indians so they can replant the forests and forget the whole fuck up that is the American colonist occurred.

>>13603972
You're proving his point, retard. Dostoevsky mostly wrote about suffering, having dealt with suffering himself for most of his life.

>>13600731
Good example an- pera, como assim mano?

>>13606762
Oh, nevermind, just realized you weren't talking about north american black authors. I was really confused for a second there.

>>13606736
Please stop writing this book.

The world doesn't need more soulless science-fantasy schlock that you can buy for pennies on the yard.

>>13600731
Têm melhores exemplos, como Lima Barreto, Cruz e Souza, e talvez Gonçalves Dias se quiser o considerar 'negro' pela one drop rule. Machado é um caso único. Ele era um pardo que copeou tanto que acabou sendo aceito como branco. Ele não dava a mínima foda para sua negritude, ou para os negros. Chama-lo de escritor negro apenas por ele ter ascendência africana é errado, já que o cara se via como branco e era aceitado como branco pela sociedade; portanto "era" branco. De qualquer forma, eu lembro do Borges, que criticou a cultura negra dizendo que é uma das poucas a qual não se consegue achar um elemento humano universal. Ele se referia á cultura negra estadunidense, pois a brasileira pelo menos, como nos autores citados, comenta sobre a condição humana tão universalmente quanto os europeus, embora sem a mesma qualidade. E ele tava certo, eles não conseguem se calar sobre muh opression. Deveriam seguir os passos dos judeus, que também sofreram com muh opression mas não focaram extensivamente nisso.

>>13600615
>>13601191
Oddly enough, there's a book about the oppresiveness this "cult of blackness" can have on dissenting blacks.

Losing my Cool, by Thomas Chatterton Williams.

>>13606368
Also this.

>>13606503
>You should also check out Philip Roth’s The Human Stain
awesome that someone mentioned this, even if he's not black. Roth truly did not give a fuck and wrote the most amazing prose. The ending of The Human Stain is wrenching.

>>13606782
The first book is just a setup. I think I can use the second and third volumes to push the plot into less ventured territory and make it something that really stands out. I e already done the whole Joseph Campbell bit and I’m ready to work toward something else.

>>13600638
So no, then?

>>13606735
>Finns enslaved
Was never even close to happening until Nick II took the reins, unless you're talking about the occasional Viking and Novgorodian raids.

>>13601213
based octoroon puschkin

>>13600615
> I'm not exactly a scholar of american lit or anything but every single goddamn book by a black person I've seen getting any kind of acclaim is always about racism or slavery or growing up in a ghetto or whatever.

So black people are basically like women? Does this mean that black women are twice as womanly as non-black women?

>>13606673
Based and bleachedpilled

>>13600638
So they're basically a bunch of whiners who can't move on. Gotcha. Everyone has been a slave in history with no exceptions, so they're basically riding it like a free meal ticket. The idea that women are oppressed is actually insane. If something like slavery is integral to your culture, it's because you made it so. It's been over for a very long time now. The best part is if you reply to this bitching at me you're proving me right that you're the only ones keeping it going. Blacks are lazy and looking for gibs, which is what they have in common with a lot of women. Black women usually have more sense than their men when it comes to this kind of shit.

>>13601890
>video that cynically examines, analyses and ultimately praises black people as a sales demographic.
Are there videos like this for other demographics, like women, children, hispanics, muslims, etc?

The Famished Road

>>13607301
1965 is when blacks got full legal equality, and that's to say nothing of social/institutional equality, which they still don't have. The parents of black millennials experienced all of this first hand and their grandparents went through even worse. Of course a culture of resentment towards whites and a black identity which positions itself in opposition to the broader society is going to rise up in the black community. You can't expect all of these animosities to erode in one or two generations.

>>13606416
Most white Americans are descended from indentured servants who were essentially slavea as well. The 1% existed then as well

>>13607376
If blacks actually assimilate they are treated completely equally. There's a black lady at my work who thinks people are racist against her but the truth is she's a shitty and stupid person and that's why nobody likes her. Her pulling the race card constantly is simply the cherry on her shitty personality sundae.

>>13606750

>>13606750
There's a really way to demonstrate your point. Till then who cares.

>>13606750
There's a really easy way to demonstrate your point. Till then who cares.

>>13607376
>and that's to say nothing of social/institutional equality,

>Immeasurable metrics based on personal feelings and suspicions, ultimately subjective
>anything like legitimate legal slavery/oppression

let's be honest. At the end of the day, nobody hates black people. We just hate niggers

>>13607455
>>13607703
I'm surprised at how bad at Google anon is. it's true, but anon might be slightly wrong or really wants to wind up the anon demanding everything be cited and quoted. Dickens wrote a letter to a friend from a steamboat during his American Notes trip in April 1842. He says slave States not Southern and nurses not nannies. He also complains NY sounds nasal fwiw

>>13605581
I would do her a naizuri so I can give some icing to the chocolate bread.

>>13600668
Marlin James is a good author, but all of his stuff falls into that discussion of race or something related to race.

Night Women was all about slavery, Seven Killings was being in a Jamaican ghetto with interactions with the US and white Americans.

Black Leopard Red Wolf isn't talking about that in that vein, but the idea of establishing more African-based fantasy worlds is totally in-line with the twitter race stuff. Not sure if that counts or if you could hold that against the book.

As for the book itself, it's super fucking slow at the start, and hard to get into. One thing that was kind of interesting and confusing was trying to discern where the base world ended and the fantasy began. In western fantasy, I think most of the people on here are pretty used to the ideas of castles and monarchies and we're on the same page when the world diverges. But I had no fucking idea where the author was drawing from established African cultures and where he was dipping into his own world.
At the start the main character holds hands with another guy and I honestly couldn't tell if it was romantic or if hand-holding was just perceived differently in the culture.

>>13600615
>I've never seen a famous fantasy or scifi black author?

Octavia E Butler
Nnedi Okorafor
NK Jemisin
Nalo Hopkinson
Nisi Shawl
Steven Barnes

>>13600712
america is not a christian country and dont generalize then backtrack retard

>>13600678
/lit/ is a far-left, tranny, basket weaving, neo-transhumanist board, you bigot!

>>13609039
OP specified to do with other than race

>>13600615
Thomas Sowell

>>13600615
Alexandre Dumas. Greatest of all black writers, and the one most free of the cult of blackness,