/lit/ - Literature

Like really? No Christian has looked at the Bible more as a book about a vast majority of humanity going to hell?

Christrians are literally nihilists. For them nothing of this world matters and what they think or do is irrelevent as god already knows everything and that means that everyones faith is sealed.

Does it matter if you are optimist or pessimist if this world doesn't matter?

>>13595846
No, its just that this is my worldview and like anyone else I'd like to absorb literature that reflects that worldview back at me.

>>13595848

Then you should change your worldview and read someone like Schopenhauer and after him read Nietzsche.

>>13595846
Its actually a popular idea that Ecclesiastes is the earliest dissertation on Nihilism.

>>13595724
The 'radical optimism' of Christianity is called such because it assumes pessimistic knowledge in the first place... if you define pessimism as knowing the truths about the abjectness of existence, then Christianity would be pessimistic... but, Christianity also asserts a fundamental conclusion that reality, regardless of its ratio of good/evil, can be viewed, in a sense, as a kind of instrumentality... with this in mind, it's impossible to be pessimistic as a Christian because the ends to which reality are instrumental are, supposedly, necessarily good, as good is taken to be a corrosion of the basic and concrete 'evil' and, for Christians, God is composed entirely of this evil-corroding state... namely, that of superfluity of being...

>>13595869
Fucking jews ruined everything ,':^y

>>13595555
Any good christian who is not a heterodox liberal. A ‘pessimist’ view on human nature really is an integral part of orthodox christian faith. It is God who raises man up to dignity by His infinite goodness.

>>13595893
provide an argument for how god raises up man to dignity

>>13595870
I just don't understand why Christian funerals are like "well he's in a better place now". The Bible says, regardless of who he was he's probably actually in Hell. Christianity isn't compatible with optimism, really. Optimism is actually dangerous. Its kind of this Pollyanna stupor that everyone wills upon themselves to avoid coming to terms with reality. But Jesus says we should take on garbs of sackcloth and ash. And don't confuse pessimism and cynicism. They aren't the same thing.

>>13595900

God gives man a right to rape little kids. That's how you become a priest. That's how you get christian values and dignity

>>13595900
Its a stupid thing to say. He raises up just a few people to dignity. Its preposterous to say that somehow mankind itself is raised, because that would surely imply the better part. The Bible says most, a vast majority will be brought low.

>>13595910
>hurrdurr Christians are all pedophiles because the Harlot church of rome is rife with them.

>>13595900
I’m not gonna spoonfeed you arguments. It’s the core tenet of christianity, read the bible or something. Point is that ‘the good news’ of the grace of Christ is only what it is on the background of a consciousness of the reality of total depravity.

>>13595905
Christian culture doesn't reflect its most advanced opinions any moreso than secular culture reflects theirs... colloquial belief often resembles paganism... both religious and secular

>>13595932
this is the lamest cop-out... fag

>>13595927

You do realize that according to an old jewish tradition (which christians later stole from them) young women had to be married by the age of 12 or 13?

You do realize that Mary had Jesus by the age of 16?

Even your god was pedo man kek

>>13595920
I wasn’t talking about apokatastasis here.>>13595893

He raises up those who accept him by faith. You have a free choice. Only brainlet calvinists refute this.

>>13595905
also where'd i confuse pessimism with cynicism?

>>13595958
in what consists this raising

>>13595948
Cop out from what, some serious discourse? You only ask bad overly-broad question to swell in the role of devil’s advocate like a sophist.

>>13595966
You didn't yet. But you could. The idea that most of us are going to hell and the way to eternal life is long and beset with difficulties is a pessimistic one but its not cynical because it all has ultimate significance. Whereas cynicism would be something like Calvinism which tries to take away our ultimate responsibility in either choosing or rejecting Christ. Its basically atheism for Christians.

>>13595978
youre not a christian if you cant apply critical thought to ur beliefs

>>13596022
It’s 11PM and am posting a single shitpost before going to bed, this is a shitty imageboard what do you expect ? Intricate explication of every detail in soteriology? Give me a break.

Being that you presumably are the same as this guy >>13595992 I take it you are some sort of catholic who has a grudge against protestants.

>>13595975
By accepting Christ by faith (this involves choice) we receive his grace, the spirit takes place in our hearts and works to transform us in his image (theosis). This is a dynamic process, we have to accept it, work with it and can fall away from the faith. I am not a calvinist, I don’t believe in double predestination or the perseverance of the saints, I am lutheran. Emphasizing God’s sovereignty is not denying the process of continuously repenting and working to accept Christ.

If you want a better response you have to be more specific. If this thread is still up tomorrow I might throw you a reply.

>>13595555
Bump

It is unclear about what you define as pessimist. However, Donoso Cortes, De Maistre, and many other Catholic political thinkers do not think highly of the ability of the masses and are pessimistic towards a civilization based around them.

>>13596166
No I'm not that guy... and yea I have a grudge against protestants who can't systematically reason for their beliefs... all youve done is bring up the symbolic action of accepting christ... how does a choice bestow grace? How does the spirit get into our hearts or transform us in any way but a purely psychological one? wtf is a dynamic process?
What's so special about choice that makes it a key component of faith?
You're clearly talking about how a adopting a particular value system influences further choices and thus 'shapes' the subject accordingly, so does faith transform us into god, or christ, or just pious men? If it transforms us into god then it must be in some immaterial sense no? If just pious men then the transformation can hardly be called salvific, unless the saving is to be done literally, through some emotive, sentient act on the part of the creator which doesnt quite align with the christian conception of the godhead...
If the decisions, life, development etc of the individual, through the choice to have faith, transform him into christ in a material way, then in what sense is this salvific? It can only be called salvific if you regard knowledge as a key component in faith/salvation, which protestantism would seem to reject... so how does faith by itself save or transform anything or anyone? According to protestant definitions accepting buddha practically equivalent no? If knowledge isn't a key component of salvation then why would it matter what the individual 'transforms' into thru his belief?

>>13595555
Whatever the opposite of Mormonism is. The LDS believe that man is on a eternity-long mission to consistently better himself based on the model of Joseph Smith who had reached basically diety-status by the end of life. I can't think of a more optimistic view of Christianity and the meaning of life.

I suppose most Catholic thinkers. Graham Greene's novels have a consistent melancholic mood throughout, but I'm not sure it's through and through pessimism.

I am also interested in this question, but from a secular perspective. The 'original sin' is our biological flaws that trap us in cycles of pain and failure. Jury's still out on whether anything can 'raise us up to dignity' as another anon put it.

>>13595951
Average lifespan was shorter back then, so it would make sense to marry earlier. And teenage girls aren’t pedo, ameritard

>>13598248
it still makes sense biologically

>>13595927
> protestant pastors don’t tickle children
> X Church is the genuine expression of X religion
No way

>>13595951
The problem is that they aren't married and are fucking boys. Nothing wrong with having sex for procreation with someone post puberty.

>>13595846
Litteral calvinist heresy. Make sure You don't devolve immediately to ad hominem next time You post.
>>13595724
Even 1 person saved justifies everything.

>>13595869
>ecclesiastes is nihilism!
It's a garbage idea.
Ecclesiastes is the most optimistic book ever written.
Ecclesiastes means You're free.
The Powers and Principalities and their systems are vanity of vanity.

>>13595905
Let me guess
You're the antinatalist heretic who got hypnotized by youtube videos into destroying all his musical production.
You are and remain a brainlet and are worshipping a God that only exists in your imagination.

>>13595927
>harlot Church of Rome
500 years and l*therans still haven't changed their rhetoric.
Ultimate brainlets.

>>13595951
>You do realize that according to an old jewish tradition (which christians later stole from them) young women had to be married by the age of 12 or 13?
Do You realize that was litteraly NORMALITY at the time because the younger the bride was the most likely She was to survive the stresses of child birth?

>>13598975
There's less Catholic pedophile priests in all the world than there are pedophile teachers in the state of New York.
And this considering that they doubled after CV2.
Feel free to accept brainlet propaganda tho.

it's pessimistic in reality and optimistic in ideality

>>13595555
philosophy is for retards

>>13595869
So? Solomon lived hundreds of years before Christianity and thousands of years before the bible was compiled. When he was writing Ecclesiastes he expected it to be a standalone piece, not some propaganda piece for Yahweh. Christians always reinterpret this book to mean something optimistic like saying "it's just a case study of what happens when you fall into nihilism".

Bottom line: Solomon is not a Christian writer you retard, nor was he related to Christianity in any way.

>>13598988
Don't worry that billions of innocent people who lived normal lives are going to be tortured for eternity for not sucking gods cock (many of whom were never even given the chance to), every one life "saved" is worth it!

Even humanity, supposedly a race inferior to god in morality and justice, has decided that torturing prisoners is too much, yet god has it in mind to torture people who wouldn't even be considered criminals by humanity, endlessly, not for 10 years, not 1000 years, but ETERNITY. If this is not pure evil I don't know what is.

>>13599029
You have a distorted, satanist view of God.
I advice You to pray.

>>13599029
>Don't worry that billions
Too few.
>of innocent people
Not innocent, sinners. (Protip: Everyone is a sinner)
>will be tortured for eternity
By their choice because they didn't want God.
>for not sucking God's Cock
Strange way to say "for having betrayed the source of Goodness and right".
>humans decided torture is not right
Humans are retards.
>yet God had in mind
God only made a place for those who don't wish Him.
Obviously It's full of Demons now and they aren't nice.
It will be exactly What each of them desired and deserved. The justice of God fills every one of Joy.
>For eternity
Once out of time, You're out of time. No possibility of redemption once You're out of Space-Time.
>Each saved makes it fine!
Unironically.
>If it is not pure evil i don't know what is
Your personal version of God You made for yourself because You're unable to engage intellectually with the real thing is indeed pretty bad.

>>13599056
Oh, i forgot the most important one!
>they lived NOOOORMAL LIVEEEES!
That is they genuflected to the Powers and Principalities which rule this world and followed their rules and systems in clear day to day opposition to God and his laws.
The "defense by normality" is litteraly the cringiest rhetoric device ever. Soon It will be normal again to fuck children, due to the LGBTQ lobby. Should God be ok with that Because It's normal?
I had a vision: "defense by normality" is punished in hell by eteral testicular torture. I hope it comes to pass.

>>13595724
Double predestination hypercalvinists. They give ligoti a run for his money on cosmic hopelessness. Even Land is more hopeful than them

>>13599056
>>13599077
You're a schizophrenic. The ancient Chinese farmer who just tilled his land and lived peacefully doesn't deserve to be tortured for eternity. In fact I'd venture to say that nobody who has lived deserves that.
>fucking kids
1. It was normal in biblical times to fuck kids. There are verses in the bible which say that taking "women children" as sex slaves is fine. Mary was probably around 12 years old when she married Joseph.
2. Fucking kids is not something that should be punished with eternal torture.

>>13599104
>The ancient Chinese farmer who just tilled his land and lived peacefully doesn't deserve to be tortured for eternity
He absolutely does deserve to go to hell.
Everyone deserves to go to hell.
>it was normal to fuck children
You did it again. Nobody gives a fuck about What is normal here. Normal = doing what demons tell you to.

>>13599104
Also You don't seem to understand the fact that If Time ENDS (as in The End of Times) by definition You can't Change/Ask for forgiveness.
In which sense Obviously hell is Eternal. It can't be anything but.

>>13595905
>The Bible says, regardless of who he was he's probably actually in Hell

Where?

The most common prayer in history:
>Jesus, please protect me from your followers

Threads like this one remind me just how retarded christcucks are

>>13599490
*tips fedora*

>>13596022
I would say that even Jesus himself disagrees with this. Christians are not supposed to become doctrinaires. They are supposed to accept everything with the simplicity of a child. These are the lambs of God.

>>13599455
>many will be called but few will be chosen
>strive to enter at the narrow gate.... many will try and will not be able
>The remaining trees shall be few that a child may write them

>>13598996
Let me guess you're the heretic who blasphemes the Holy Ghost, sacrifices nothing for Jesus and probably has Pastor Anderson as his God. Also

but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire

>>13598988
Hail Mary, Full of Grace

>>13595893
Who is this?

>ctrl+f Pascal
>no results

you can't believe in a good all-loving god and be a pessimist unless you have an inconsistent worldview which many christians have

>>13595555

Emmanuel Mounier would be one. I at least always felt fucking depressed after reading Introduction aux Existentialismes.

>>13599077
Based schizo poltard "religious" incel

>>13599056
edgy

>>13599017
this

>>13599110
imagine being this cucked to a jewish foreskin eating volcano demon

>>13595905
>I just don't understand why Christian funerals are like "well he's in a better place now".
This is not true, how many actual Christian (not Protestant) funerals have you attended?

>>13598996
>Literally N-n-n-o U

Pathetic

I am neither an optimist nor a pessimist, Christ has risen. -leslie newbigin

>>13599037
>I advice You to pray.

And I ADVISE you and your shit-tier English comprehension to get off this fucking board for literature.

>>13595555
Yeah, the Westborough Baptist Church leader.

>>13599056
I really doubt you're going to stand by the insensitivity of this post when its your ass roasting in hell.

>inb4 hurr durr I'm not going to hell because that's what every Christian believes about themselves.

>>13598237
There's plenty of secular pessimists. Houellebecq probably up your alley.