/lit/ - Literature

I don't care, I'm just glad he's not bugging us any more.

>>13507989
Selling carpets and jungian mumbo jumbo as usual.

He's still here

>>13508000
why do people on this board diss jung but endorse religion

>>13508021
Precisely because Jung is slurry, muddy nonsense, trying to apply a "meta narrative" to disparate traditions and systems. All the world's religions are distinct and different from each other, they are not all reducible to some overarching idea and story.

>>13507989
He's busy inhaling helium.

>>13508032
I'm pretty sure all religion involves faith in something greater than ourselves, making it all the more clear why people consider atheists prideful

>>13508039

Maybe Zizek killed some of his status but he's selling strong as ever.
Probably for now he's too repetitive for people without actual issues. Maybe he'll come along with some new ideas and get relevant again.

>>13508052
JBP will always fear the Jew. This fear hamstrings him, forcing him into untenable situations.

>>13508039
Frazer looks at this from an anthropological viewpoint in The Golden Bough.

>>13508089
Yeah and Frazer got rekt by Wittgenstein and others.

>>13508100
I have heard this alleged. Can you point to it?

>>13508114
If you're asking where Wittgenstein did it, he actually has a short work on it aptly titled Remarks on Frazer's Golden Bough. It's actually renowned for how hotly he excoriated Frazer.

>>13508032
Cute.

>>13507989

Does it matter? He's made his money, has more than enough fans to keep him plump with red meat and sustained until the end of his life. The only barrier to cross now is to start a full-throated defense of the burgeoning American fascism, which I suspect he'll come around to, but only because the evil left pushed him into it and didn't listen to his warnings.

Gonna be fun to see, got my popcorn next to my plane ticket.

>>13508139
I have found a couple of analyses of this rebuttal. They seem to center on Frazer's use of explanation rather than description; Essentially that Frazer is wrong for HOW he stated his case, not that the FACTS of his case are in question. Am I on the right track?

>>13508139
From Frazer:

>Legitimately applied they yield science; illegitimately applied they yield magic, the bastard sister of science. It is therefore a truism, almost a tautology, to say that all magic is necessarily false and barren; for if it were ever to become true and fruitful, it would no longer be magic, but science.

Wittgenstein seems to have a gripe with this; that Frazer should not concern himself with the outcome - only with the thoughts and feeling of the practitioner. If Frazer posits that a ritual is rubbish because it yields no effect does Wittgenstein have no responsibility to prove that the ritual indeed does produce the stated goal in order for him to have made a legitimate rebuttal? Is his take that he has made a legitimate rebuttal because Frazer failed to account for the thoughts and feelings of the practitioner? Does Wittgenstein argue against the destination that Frazer reaches (the golden bough itself being mistletoe on an oak branch), or just his methodology? If Wittgenstein disputes the methodology, but the methodology does indeed find the golden bough, and Wittgenstein fails to show a better methodology to find the golden bough then I fail to see that he has solidly BTFO Frazer.

>>13508139

From Frazer:

>Legitimately applied they yield science; illegitimately applied they yield magic, the bastard sister of science. It is therefore a truism, almost a tautology, to say that all magic is necessarily false and barren; for if it were ever to become true and fruitful, it would no longer be magic, but science.

Wittgenstein seems to have a gripe with this; that Frazer should not concern himself with the outcome - only with the thoughts and feeling of the practitioner. If Frazer posits that a ritual is rubbish because it yields no effect does Wittgenstein have no responsibility to prove that the ritual indeed does produce the stated goal in order for him to have made a legitimate rebuttal? Is his take that he has made a legitimate rebuttal because Frazer failed to account for the thoughts and feelings of the practitioner? Does Wittgenstein argue against the destination that Frazer reaches (the golden bough itself being mistletoe on an oak branch), or just his methodology? If Wittgenstein disputes the methodology, but the methodology does indeed find the true golden bough, and Wittgenstein fails to show a better methodology to find the true golden bough then I fail to see that he has solidly BTFO Frazer.

>>13507989
https://youtu.be/BwW9QV5Ulmw
With this guy, what a perfect man to explaining postmodernism

>>13508052
he is too old to get new ideas

>>13508052
This is the kind of thing that steals credibility from him. He shouldn't allow to make his contribution into products and have it become a lucrative endeavour. The Patreon donations were enough. This greedy attitude puts him on par with other disgusting self help shills

>>13508363
>This is the kind of thing that steals credibility from him.
You were OK with him until the pyjamas?

>>13507989
Into hiding.

>>13508079
I'm gonna LARP now but what if he's one of ((them))

>>13508140
>Here goyim let me present some prolefeed for you, written by a (((reputed gentleman and philosopher))) no less!
Huxley litteraly honestly fucked kids and murdered them in the basement of illuminati Villas while edging his microscopic cock for Moloch.

>>13508876
>Literally honestly
>/lit/ literature

>>13508363
He is against Patreon now

>>13508839

>>13508363
>on par with other disgusting self help shills
He is the king of self help, but for midwits. Congratulations on being cattle lol who would've thought incels would be some of the moving gears of the status quo in this day and age

>>13507989
He retired with his Patreon money.

>>13508032
this angers the Tradposter

>>13509428
Did he turn against Patreon before the paypigs stopped paying him?

>>13507989
To the end of night

>>13507989
busy watching his wife die

Don’t worry. He’s just lying low. He’ll resurface in a few years wearing dark glasses and robes. He’ll have bought a small plantation in South America with the money he got from all the retards buying his book, his tote bags, and his t-shirts. Then he’ll voyage there with a few thousand lobsterbois on a pilgrimage to start the perfect community of cleaning rooms, petting cats, and being manly secular Christian self-affirming Jungians. About a year later, after all the cats have been petted and all the rooms have been cleaned there’ll be a news story about how everyone drank cyanide punch, and he’ll be found dead in front of a bank of weepy YouTube videos of himself praising his pragmatic and timeless genius.

>>13507989
he quit because everyone else stopped larping as christian

>>13510570
imagine being this mad

spending all the money he made from 12 rules and the various public appearances.

he's setting up some kind of alt-right/incel reddit type website crossed with patreon

his wife was diagnosed with a serious cancer, so I presume he withdrew from public life to deal with that.

that being said, I hardly pay attention to jordan peterson's comings and goings, and I assumed he was doing what he normally does, talking about Jung and shilling his merchandise until this thread came along.

>>13510629
If he cries when thinking of collectivism, he's going to be a mess when his wife dies (sooner or later). He'll probably become an unironic Christian to cope.

>>13508021
The board doesn't generally diss Jung, but dissing his fanboys has always been fair game. It's totally legit to call Campbell out on creating Star Wars soïaboys and endless art hoes instagramming the hero's journey, and Peterson for having even more retarded fans who need to be told that cats need pettings and to wash regularly.
Jung would have already disowned them and written several letters about how he hopes they were fucked by their dads.

>>13507989
He had a sub gig in alberta, eh.
No more YouTube marketing money left.

>>13507989
he's still pretty popular with normies. just because he isn't being spammed on /lit/ currently, doesn't mean he's disappeared.

>>13507989
Same place everyone goes when they make a couple million.

>>13507989
This Jordan Peterson is exactly the same of person like Alain soral in western europe was until 2014.
He attracts young people, often lost and without a strong father figure.
I predict the same fate as the latter, a public scandal, probably a mistress, or a young women he fucked who talked, something like that.

I'm not even against his ideas, i'm red pill, but i feel he is incredibly low level regarding the strong influence he has.
If young people want a red pill guy, check Rollo Tomasi, chateau Heartiste, or the book practical female psychology for the pratical male. Hell even Robert Greene. Still way better, and a way larger and better work.

>>13507989

His wife is apparently seriously ill so he seems to be taking some time

>>13507989
Cleaning pp's with Kermit mask on and very little teeth

>>13510873
To Peterson's defence, he at least managed to popularise some topics from philosophy and psychology.
Greene is a pseud who literary describes Jung's shadow, but dumbs it down so that it sounds good to the masses.
I haven't read the other authors you mentioned, just a couple of chapters from the Practical Female Psychology. It's not too bad actually. I find it difficult to get the right balance though.

>>13510700
>Jung would have already disowned them and written several letters about how he hopes they were fucked by their dads.
kek

>>13509572
And it's why Evola shouldn't be considered traditional. Actual traditionalism means belonging to a faith tradition and trying to maintain cultural values and aesthetics without falling to mere preservation.

>>13510629
What if he did all this just to pay for the treatment?

>>13510946
>not the JUST edit

>>13512154
that would ironically be incredibly based

>>13510578
Was he LARPing as a Christian or did he finally commit to a belief or not?

>>13508351
Never too old for that

>>13513787
He had a lecture about this quite recently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnUfXYGtT5Q

Apparently, he doesn't feel that he is worthy enough to call himself a Christian. Or something like that. He's not gone anywhere, he just stopped doing interviews with the MSM for a while. He's interviewing other people now (Joe Rogan, Ben Shapiro, Milo, just recently)

>>13508460
i men he want really hurting any one who rather helping some people who weren't into philosophy and psychology motivate themselves no matter how mangled his perception but now its just exploiting at this point

>>13513799
>Apparently, he doesn't feel that he is worthy enough to call himself a Christian. Or something like that.
No one is worthy, that's why there's the theology of Grace.
Either he's overthinking it, or he's weaseling out for some other reason
>He's interviewing other people now (Joe Rogan, Ben Shapiro, Milo, just recently)
...which makes me think the latter.

>>13507989
At Sesame Street with the rest of the Muppets.

>>13513838
You could be right, he might be unable to say he believes in God outright because he's afraid of losing "big brain" cred. From the way he talks about God, though, I suspect he believes in his heart but not in his mind. I respect the man, but he needs to shit or get off the toilet when it comes to Our Lord Jesus Christ.

No one is worthy, that's why there's the theology of Grace.

> Either he's overthinking it, or he's weaseling out for some other reason

I think it's a combo. I do think he genuinely is overthinking it. If you listen to the lecture it's obvious he's been thinking about it a lot.

>>13507989
He's been on a long-ass tour, might still be on one. Nope, just checked his website, the tour is on hiatus until October or November, so he's taking 3-4 months off. I hear his wife has been having some health issues, that might be one element, but he's been going around the world with her for his live talks to sold-out venues not to mention the RIDICULOUS amount of money he's made on his millions of sales of 12 Rules for Life. Doubtlessly, he could retire right now and be fit for however many decades he has left. I doubt he ever will, however. I think he'll be active right to the end, and wouldn't be surprised if he made it into his 90s. If that's the case, there's still over 30 more years of Dr. Jordan Peterson to go around.

>>13513853
I'd like to think he's sincere, but he's fundamentally committed himself to materialism. Metaphysics seems like a bridge to far since both since it'll hurt his cred (as you mention) and what he most likely perceives his wallet.
But you gotta make a sacrifice and take a leap of faith. I was hoping he'd do more to bridge the gap between the materialists and the metaphysicists. There's a lot of interested people out there who are unfulfilled and looking to get back into traditional meaning but feel it is disingenuous of themselves, given the leaps of disbelief they've taken in their lives.

>>13513870
>but he's fundamentally committed himself to materialism

Well, I wouldn't say so. He's been very clear in his criticism of materialism as a world view. I might be misunderstanding what you're saying. But he's not a materialist, but maybe he tries too much to give materialist explanations for meta-physical phenomena.

>>13507989
Some people turned him into a scapegoat and were satisfied once Zizek sacrified him, the reason why there are so few threads now is because people butthurt about him finally moved on

>>13507989
GOD, I Mean, DADDY, just give me an itemized list of RULES because I CAN't THINK for myself

>>13513875
He kinda is though. He identifies himself first and foremost as a scientist of the psychological discipline and hopes to maintain the credibility.
With regards to stuff like his Bible Lectures, he's tries to make empirical points of how the morality from then is applicable to now. But he doesn't take the extra metaphysical step to acknowledge how those moral philosophies came to be, why the are timeless, and why the collection of them weren't arbitrary (in contrast to failed morality systems / civilizations who didn't use these particular collection moral parables).
A Christian will take that extra step and claim it is because this wisdom was metaphysically revealed as truthful by God.
A materialist would use every explanation but metaphysical explanations. So you'd get some empirical verisimilitude about how the evolutionary psychology of those people determined that the optimal mode for survival and reproduction was to craft these morality tales to transmit the knowledge down and ensure civilizational fitness.

The conundrum arises in that which one is the correct explination. Neither is falsifiable. So which narrative should be selected? That's the crossroads that Peterson finds himself in.

>>13513907
>HIGH PRIEST, I Mean, DOCTOR, just give me HRT pills and a scalpel to cut MY PENiS off!
People aren't paragons of rationality or stoicism.
Many seek help from good and evil people.

>>13507989
his wife has cancer

>>13514087
I heard she was hospitalized for liver failure. I hope she has a speedy recovery. Even Dr. Peterson is only 57 years old or so, still quite young. With the money they have they should be able to afford the premium health service in America rather than using the Socialized mess here in Canada.

>>13513955
Yeah, that's what I thought you were saying. He needs to shit or get off the toilet.

Yall niggas just mad because you cant admit to yourself that you are the exact type of loser he is trying to reach out to

>>13508021
Because Jung was a quasi-atheist, who reduced spiritual beings to mere concepts and beliefs in the mind. He thought, just like Peterson does, that God is real only in the sense that the concept of God affects how people behave, whether they believe or not.

>>13513765
>why won't they stop

>>13513776
True or not, they should use that subtext as one possible interpretation of the eventual film.

>>13508204
>burgeoning American fascism
>tr*mpstein is a fascist
not even to tumblr, back to washingtonpost you go

>>13515477
What I always find strange about this approach is, how do you keep believing it once you realize it works? Religion only works when it is believed sincerely, and not at a distance, which both Jung, Peterson, and all the rest come to observe very quickly. So they say it exists for such and such purpose, but it is just a useful tool; and then when they see the "tool" only functions when believed, they seem unable to see the obvious questions this should raise. How can a false understanding of the universal lead to anything but a disastrous end? Why has the abandonment of religion led only to chaos, war, and insanity if it religion that's the lie?

>>13508204
>burgeoning American fascism
Trump is thoroughly a liberal.
There (sadly) isn't a single ounce of Fascism to be found in the USA.

And Peterson himself is a pretty heavy anti-Fascist, who does everything in his power in order to keep liberalism afloat.

>>13515640
>Why has the abandonment of religion led only to chaos, war, and insanity if it religion that's the lie?

>>13515697
What most people want from retirement is a medieval life. With all our economy, could we be any less efficient?

>>13515640
Lots of religious people have wars, dummy. Sometimes people actually go to war for religious reasons. Imagine that.

>>13515826
No one ever killed in the name of Christ.

>>13515826
Obviously. But secularism was supposed to make it better, and the wars have only gotten worse.

>>13515618
>back to wapo you go
fucking kek God bless President Trump, cheers from Canada. Now Boris Johnson is Prime Minister of Britain to finally bring about Brexit now that that bungling bitch May is gone, Australia has some proper right-wing leadership, and now... if only... if only we can get Maxime "Mad Max" Bernier as Prime minister of Canada in October. Oh how mighty the Anglosphere can be, far too much for the EU to handle. We can be the end of them, and Europe, the homeland of the mighty White race, can be mighty once more. The migrant crisis MUST be dealt with. I just hope it can be done without violence... but who am I kidding... violence is already here, and it's coming almost exclusively from the Muslims and the far-left fascistically terroristic Antifa thugs. If the right decide to likewise become violent... they won't stand a chance... and the streets will be marked with the blood of the radicals, both of the Islamic and fascistic far-left varieties.

He is on vacation in Israel

>>13516068
based and anglopilled

>>13513833
>now its just exploiting at this point
It was always exploitation. You may have seen a shift in the CBA but the intent was always there. He's a shifty scumbag and this is readily detectable upon watching the first couple of lectures.

>>13516086
I am hopeful for the future when I think of the direction the anglosphere is taking. Frankly, though, I am doubtful that Mad Max will win here in Canada, but hey, nobody thought Trump would win either, at least very few. I think that the majority of Trump voters, at the ballot box, thought "well, he's not gonna win... but at least I'll know that I did my part to limit Hillary's power as much as possible." Something like that, and I hope that happens en masse in Canada too. We don't have a 2-party system, so to even get 30% of the vote, that can be enough. We'll see what happens. At minimum, I anticipate Andrew Scheer to win, who is now the leader of the Conservative Party and I think is a rather young man, late-30s perhaps. Anyhow, he's come out as a centrist, and I have no time for that nonsense. I'm well-aware of Mad Max's stances, and I know, every parliamentary seat filled by a PPC (Mad Max) politician, that seat will represent my views better than a Conservative politician, even though I've literally voted Conservative at every opportunity until October comes.

Sadly, I think that the Conservative Party of Canada has gone the way of Britain's Conservative Party. Bloody limp and weak. Nope, Mad Max is the ONLY right-winger running for Prime Minister, and right-wing politics is EXACTLY what the West needs. Desperately.

>>13516075
That pic is too sincere to mock cynically.

>>13508032
so you're an atheist then? wouldn't there be some underlying truth linking them if there's any truth to religion itself

>>13513907
i enjoy religion like the greeks enjoyed mythology.

>>13517036
wasn't mythology then

still may not be

>>13507989
>Where has he gone?
Obscurity, where he belongs.

>>13507989
being constipated on top of a big pile of money he got from MAGA hat kids and old neoliberals

>>13507989
>Ted posting on /lit/
sry f a m

>>13508032
Read more Jung and Campbell retard

>>13519011
If Dr. Peterson was a dependent conformist, he wouldn't be speaking out for freedom of expression in Canada, wouldn't be lambasting the education system for their leftist indoctrination, or speaking out against 'gender studies' or the concept of there being dozens of 'genders'. He's faced repeated scandals, been pressed on during interviews, lied about, repeatedly smeared, and all because he stands up for what he believes and speaks truth even when it's the sort of truth that people (and/or the Government) don't want to hear. The 'smart' thing would be to do as most teachers do; keep their head down and when they see something they don't like, keep it to themself.

He's even gone so far as to state, during an interview no less, that if he's fined for Bill C16 that he's not going to pay it, and if he's arrested, he'll go on hunger strike. If I ever get arrested and locked-up for my speech, I hope to have the willpower to do likewise. Bucko.

>>13519941
Controlled opposition

>>13520500
Nope. How?

inB4

>> You're just to much of a SHEEPLE to see it.

>>13512142
yes. I guess we can say Jung could be accused of psychological reducionism of tradition and Evola of philosophical/political reducionism

Peterson is a Koch crony.

>>13517031
only if you "have faith" in universality or some sort of problem with multifaceted existence

>>13520525
There are people who just don't like Dr. Peterson and will try to smear him in any way they can, even without truth on their side. Probably a Marxist who hates that he calls them out, or an LGBT activist who doesn't like that he pushes against made-up pronouns, or someone who wants hate speech laws and so are angry at him for promoting freedom of expression.

Useful idiots of the radical left who disregard truth and facts... those are the 'sheeple'.

>>13521000
>>>13520525
>There are people who just don't like Dr. Peterson and will try to smear him in any way they can, even without truth on their side. Probably a Marxist who hates that he calls them out, or an LGBT activist who doesn't like that he pushes against made-up pronouns, or someone who wants hate speech laws and so are angry at him for promoting freedom of expression.
>
>Useful idiots of the radical left who disregard truth and facts... those are the 'sheeple'.

>>13520549
Reductionism, or syncretism. I prefer the latter, because I think most people can more readily see how synthesis is modernism, whereas a reductionist can play at being a fundamentalist.

>>13508876
Just have sex already incel

>>13521154
yikes cringe cope seethe rent free dilate

>>13521196
I haven't had sex in over a year but you obviously haven't had sex in over a lifetime

>>13521261
sneed

>>13521261
Have straight sex.

>>13521261
>I haven't had sex in over a year
dude get off /lit/ and have sex

>>13510873
No Soral and Peterson have fairly different backgrounds.

>>13520500
>huu he doesn't agree with my ennemies but he also doesn't agree with ME so he's bad

Pure mental illness

>>13510570
how does such a milquetoast man with basic opinions get this board so triggered.

>>13507989
He decided to follow his own advice and is maintaining the cleanliness of his room