/lit/ - Literature

>>13369023
And don't you forget it

>>13369023
It’s really dark humor

Job fails to understand why he suffers and so articulates the standard gnostic opposition to God. God asserts himself and forces Job into proper submission by demonstrating his omnipotence

>>13369039
>omnipotence
Malevolence*

>>13369032
lmao

Why should I pray to a God that is abusive?

>>13369047

>>13369023
You're a gay bitch for trying to pass judgement on God.

>>13369047
Nothing is done without purpose. It was a test of Job's faith, which is why he is given back more than he lost when he eventually steps back from the brink of failure.

Moral is you're supposed to have blind faith in God even after he ruins your life

>>13369068
That happy ending was added later to appease brainlets.

>>13369068
Not an argument

>>13369023
when you get raped, there isn't a real reason or purpose, so get over it.

>>13369083
Sure it is. Job's objection is that everything is pointless and that it would have been better never to have been because he and everyone else has been abandoned and made to suffer at the whim of God. But he was never abandoned and his suffering was made to prove a point.

>>13369098
That his god is malevolent

>>13369105
>God should prevent people from being bad
lol

>>13369105
That his God remains steadfast by those who do not depart from his way.

>>13369114
Couldn't agree more. I feel bad for the fedora tippers. They'll never know how loving God is, that by sending Jesus to die for our sins, we should be saved. Their hubris keeps them from joy. Poor things.

>>13369112
>oh heavenly father
Dead beat dad.

>>13369114
Cope.

Your gods are stupid and sick things. Nature does these things. Chance. Wake up, fools

>>13369023
I will never understand why so many people are Christians. There is such little spirituality within the culture, it's a far better showcase of sociopathy. Without the political campaign that accompanies it, I doubt many would be Christian. I doubt actual Christians even believe what they claim to, but many love the campaign towards controlling other human beings and speaking to them from a "higher authority".

>>13369072
But anon, blind faith is a VIRTUE. Don't you know the story of Abraham and Isaac? God REWARDED him for completely euthanizing his ethical compass and mindlessly obeying orders when expected of him to. Isn't that a beautiful tale? Gosh, you sound like such a fool. You just don't have the Holy Spirit in you, like I do. I'll pray for Jesus to enter your life, preferably on your morning toast. Then, you'll begin to see the ways of the Lord.

>>13369023
Morality and purpose always come crawling to power

>>13369156
Perhaps you should read more

>>13369051
where did God hurt you?

>>13369064
For real

>>13369023
The big question of Job is WHY would God do that to someone?

First you have to realize that God was actually blessing Job, he gave the devil power over Job's life to destroy the things he loved. The devil said that Job only loved Him because of the blessings, if there were none, he would curse Him "to His face."

To show Job's love as an example to the devil, God gave Job this chance. He allowed the devil to wreck Job's life and even kill all of his children, dragged him to the point where he would finally receive a direct answer from God for his suffering and prayer.

When Job finally is confronted by God's true face, he acts with understanding and love and so is blessed for his contributing in conquering this scheme of the devil's.

Thus the devil remained further back in line, something we don't really know or understand much about. In the beginning of Job it says it came time for the sons of God to be counted, and the devil was among them.

The devil is actually important to and loved by God, and so to teach him this lesson this was allowed. The line that they were in though, the devil was clearly trying to cut for some reason. That one I'm still trying to understand, you'd think being in Heaven would make you patient enough

>”the transcendent creator should have made all of existence just so that humans could never ever feel suffering and we would all be living in a painless paradise with no knowledge of anything but happiness because this is the only thing that a transcendent creator should be worried about”
>”oh? That’s not how it happened? There IS suffering, but God still looks out for us and promises us peace if we follow him? Um, no, sorry, I’d rather just accept this suffering on my own and possibly suffer when I have nothing to give me comfort in the afterlife. Fuck God. I’d rather go to hell even though that’s much worse than this life and i could easily go to Heaven if i humbled myself and devoted myself to God.
Atheists are hilarious

>>13369307
Don't forget our ancestors actually made the decision to betray His easy commandment of just NOT EATING THE ONE TREE

>>13369307
Atheists think God should be a cosmic vending machine

>another my morality isn't aligned with gods morality so he must be wrong thread
great

>>13369307
>inb4 why does God care about us at all then
Because we exist to glorify Him. It is through our perception and focus (worship) on God that He is most actualized and His nature is truly revealed. This doesn’t mean that God forfeits all His other qualities of creation and purposely creates a world with zero possibility of suffering. This world is complex and beautiful, full of opposites, hot and cold, light and dark, good and evil, etc. and this glorifies God by revealing His omnipotence. The world is a great balancing act, a great play, God’s adolescence and perfection at once, having the most meaning it could possibly have.

>>13369140
What's your favored interpretation of probability?

>>13369047
take your stupid tripcode off

>>13369023
The other people were supposed to help job, but they didn't, so God had to come down and take from them and give to Job. The whole point was to show how useless words are without deeds

>>13369023
True faith and love isn't contingent on material blessings or well being. Good and bad things happen to good and bad people.

Also it provides tons of examples of bad theology people in the form of Job's friends. They conclude that misfortune must be a result of disobedience.

>>13369156
>>13369051
>>13369083

NPC

>>13369526
You can either help someone or go against them alone sometimes, but you really have to pick faggot

Honestly the book of Job is the basis of the standard Reformed theodicy: that God, in His sovereignty and good purpose, wills, purposes, and allows evil to work for His glory.

>>13369568
Literally the opposite of an NPC attitude. Seething, anon.

I’m surprised there are still atheists on /lit/. They get so humiliated in threads like these that I wonder why they haven’t just stayed at plebbit

>>13369568
>Asking questions is NPC

>>13369023
You know what the point is, Christianity isn't fully honest with the public because God and Satan have some sort of interdimensional contest and they can manipulate natural disasters and the Bible or Christianity never really fully explains things like this

>>13369023
That's the point.
You don't have to get it.

>>13369023
The death of Christianity will not happen in our lifetime, sadly. But it will happen some day, and it will be a great day indeed. The most successful political campaign in history, finally brought to it's end.

>>13369023
I will still never understand why every other mythology is "just mythology" - with nobody here considering figures like Krishna, Zeus, Thor or Quetzalcoatl to be real, while Judeo-Christianity mythology is seen by the same individuals not as fictional stories but factual histories, with every story documenting a true event which occurred just a few millenia ago. Somehow, the ancestors of the modern Jewish people have a record within their culture of the time the Creator of the Universe came down and ruined an innocent man named Job's life. It REALLY happened. The Puranas didn't happen, the Bhagavad Gita didn't happen, Beowulf didn't happen, Hamlet didn't happen, Lord of the Rings didn't happen, Harry Potter didn't happen, but the Old Testament REALLY DID.

I will never understand, ever. Christians would never consider anything else historically real, but consider EVERYTHING they read in Christianity to be so. It's beyond my grasping. I doubt any mortal could understand it.

>>13370077
It is. Just obey God and the Church at all times, and stop using that pesky little mind of yours to question these larger authorities and their agendas for you. God did not give you a brain to think, but to mindlessly obey Him at all times.

>>13369307
But why did God have to create d*fecation and *rination? It's absolutely disgusting to deal with, every day of my life the germophobe that I am shudders at the thought of engaging in such activities and He must have such a filthy mind to have made those realities, and what a pervert He was to give them to us.

I will never worship the Judeo-Christian God until He relieves me and all of my fellow humanity of the need to relieve ourselves. And I demand an apology from Him for creating such items in the first place, and being so perverted as to give them to His creation, while still expecting them to have deference for Him.

>>13369346
Until He rids me and everyone else of the bodily waste system He willingly made us with, I will never "glorify" Him. He owes all species an apology for the perversion that led Him to creating such articles.

>>13369316
>The story is REAL, guys

>>13369326
>Infanticide is the absolute, eternal, unchanging standard of morality

>>13369068
What was the purpose of Him creating the bodily waste system? It is sickening, sickening, sickening! Every day I have to deal with the consequences of His perversion.

>>13369036
Yeah. God may be an asshole, but surely has some wicked humour

>>13369133
>our sins
You did not even exist until your present birth, according to your one-lifetime policy, and neither did you commit any crimes done by another. You're being punished for something you never did, or even could have done, given that God had not created you yet.

>>13369032
lol

>>13370072
The theists are just a vocal minority who bark lauder, like the vegans.

>>13370898
Job is more like Helen of Troy as a historical character. These stories refer to real events but maybe not in the way a modern historian would require.

>>13369023
The demonstration that Christians and Jews don't understand the heavens.

>>13370993
Dang, shame I missed it then. Would have loved to see the Universe's Creator hang out with a random Jew named Job. Sounds like a pretty big deal, to be quite honest.

>>13369114
>high-fives Satan
>haha look at this fucking loser
>destroys his family and everything he owns
>IT'S TRUE LOVE!!!!!

>>13370973
A human wrote Job. There is no god.

>>13370077
>>13369776

> Thinking your asking questions when your just regurgitating neckbeard talking points that don't address the substance of the arguments.
> Asking questions but not actually listening for answers just assuming you already know.

This is NPC. Your not thinking for yourself

>>13371023
Look in a mirror

Read Psalms and realize David is speaking to you, Lord. :)

>>13371024
Christian blind obedience to a myth for the sake of the given power structure is your typical non-player character, you absolute dipshit

>>13371024
>Your not thinking for yourself
>You’re
I am

>>13371034
Shut up

>>13369032
kek

>>13371038
>Shut up
Really?

I tell you one of Christianities' biggest secrets and you tell me to shut up?

>>13369051
Your parents, if they're good, will """"""""abuse"""""""" you by making you do chores, eat healthy, study, avoid drugs. The problem is, you don't realise or appreciate this until you're face down in a gutter, starving, and relying on the pool of your own piss for warmth.

Job was not there when God laid the pillars of creation and has no understanding of the complexities of the universe. Yet he wants God to explain morality, a concept far more ambiguous than all the questions God asked Job.

For what purpose will this serve? Should God, the creator of everything, negotiate with Job on everything that happens in this world? What had Job done that is truly beneficial to God, worthy enough for God to bestow this blessing?

God does not provide an explanation because we are not entitled to one. This is our place in the universe, we're the created. As such, our understanding of this place is limited. God's morality is beyond our reach, much like the questions God asked Job

Butterly is the worst poster on this site

>>13371075
Single book posters need to go back to their board. This is a board for literature

>>13369036
>>13369047
>>13369105
>>13369776
>>13371023
>>13371035
>>13371038
>>13371087

Were you abused as a child ?

>>13371067
But why did God create p*ss in the first place, is my question? What compelled Him to think of such a disgusting item?

>>13371072
Why do Christians always consider all of these Judeo-Christian stories to be historical events and therefore literally true, but every other mythological and fantastical story in existence to be strictly fictional?

>>13371106
Does this count?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2HCjQbKowUo

>>13371075
You haven't blocked them yet? I could tell they were ITT.

>>13371134
Where the fuck did I say Job was real? Please don't respond to my posts without reading them

>>13371175
My mistake, but in the majority of cases, the same words you wrote would have been written by someone who believed them as literally true. In your case, it seems you were simply explaining the literary work's narrative to OP, but in many others, like people in this thread, it would be an explanation of reality itseld.

>>13371007
There were like 10 million people worldwide and El Elyon only really cared about about some 30,000 square km. If you lived there, you probably knew someone who knew someone who had hang out with God at some point.

>>13371087
just like you do things that make you suffer, god brings suffering for the higher good.
not hard to understand.

>>13369032
Fpbp

>>13369023
>attempting to understand God
You absolute fool

I have not read a single comment because I know they're all wrong. ESPECIALLY the ones about Job being "right" and God being "wrong". Pasting this again:

The story itself is ironic in that the principle of Job being innocent is completely absurd, and people taking it as dogma are themselves exemplary of Job's perverse "innocence". It is implied that God could have destroyed everyone and everything around him, and Job would have thought nothing of it. Worse still, that he only thought about it once he became afflicted, was utterly unrepentant in his ignorance, but still self-aggrandized in both refusing to admit fault and refusing to consider that, if he is indeed innocent, anyone and everyone that God likewise tormented could have been innocent as well, making him the disciple of a monster. So many mutually aggravating offenses that they indeed make lesser Mosaic sin redundant and Job formally innocent thereof. God's non-reply being not only perfectly adequate in mirroring Job's casual monstrosity, but quite merciful as well in letting Job carry on as usual.

>>13369032
Well done.

>>13369164
>Abraham pleads with God not to destroy Sodom, and bargains with him to save the city if he can find 10 virtuous men within it
>Doesn't so much as bat an eye at the command to sacrifice his son

What did Abe mean by this?

>>13370867
>IT'LL DIE ANY DAY NOW I PROMISE
Get thee behind me satan.
When your bones are dust, men and women will still worship our Lord.

>>13372119
A malevolent god is your choice. So?

>>13369036
another QUALITY post from /lit/'s resident nut.

>>13372622
G-d is above human morality

>>13372736
Cuz he doesn’t care. That’s what I’m saying.
So have you given up on this infantile idea that he’s loving yet?

>>13372746
>Cuz he doesn’t care
no, because "he" operates on a level where it is irrelevant.

>>13369133
Christians are so fucking arrogant
Some of the most horrid people I know

>>13372453
Isaac was always an accident, and unwanted by Abraham. The commandment to sacrifice him couldn't have come sooner, in Abe's mind.

>>13372831
that's just jealousy but worry not Jesus has love for all who repent.

>>13372831
Have empathy for them. They are the victims of the most successful indoctrination campaign of the past two millenia. Everything about Christianity works specifically to ensnare their psychology and have them be shaped in a certain way, which only few manage to observe objectively later on and shake the grip of.

>>13372850
>jealousy
Of what? A life spent being an asshole to others and trying to appease a God who would easily have you be in pain forever?
Many people truly strive for goodness in their life, and feel great pain when they commit wrongdoing; oh but they didn't have some water sprinkled on their head? Sorry sweetie you get to be in agony for eternity :)

>>13372887
Of those who know G-d's grace uwu

>>13372897
well I feel none, I just find Christians to be annoying and smug
there are better religions to feel envy towards
the conception of Brahman is far superior to trinitarian nonsense

>>13372932
I will pray for you

>>13372932
I will also pray for you

>>13372955
>>13372958
wow you'd do that for me? i prostrate myself before you in thanks :)

>>13372969
Have a blessed day :)

>>13372985
Fuck Jannies
Fuck Trannies
and FUCK the holy spirit :)

>>13373000
literal demon

>>13372932
>talking shit about Aquinas
dude there are tons of shitty theologians you could have picked on, Aquinas isnt one.
confirmed for knowing shit about Aquinas or the traditions he worked in

>>13373000
typical mental level of your average christ denier. Repent before it is too late anon, shitposting will not get you into heaven.

>>13373011
>>13373015
an idle shitpost is not demonic, nor is it of particular offence to the greater thing
the absolute state of your "god" if he can't hack some simple bants
what's he gonna do? genocide my people now?

>>13373015
also, seriously now, how can you expect someone to "truly" repent when they don't even believe in the same religion as you?

>>13373035
I never said it was offensive, but it will not lead to salvation.

>>13373035
That's what He did the Canaanites, anon. Infants and all. Be careful man, He loves you so much He'll wipe every trace of you from the face of this Earth, friend.

>>13373042
you do you just don't know it yet

>>13373047
no shit, narrow is the path, most people, even if they are entirely virtuous as commonly understood, will suffer forever due to the way your retard God designed the universe and how it was to play out
>>13373052
>He'll wipe every trace of you from the face of this Earth, friend.
and then you get to go to hell to boot :)

>>13373058
typical christian arrogance
not everyone who sincerely seeks the truth and the good ends up a Christian

>>13373068
oh my sweet summer child.

>>13373081
great response
and lets say i did sincerely open my heart and mind, and strived to look into Christianity to see if it was the truth
what would happen if I got hit by a car and died before I could find out?

>>13373068
You're wasting your time arguing with them, anon. Let them believe what they'd like, and wish them well on their spiritual path. As I said earlier, the Judeo-Christian scriptures do a real number on an individual's psychology, and in some sense I don't blame the souls who find themselves in it's trap. Believing they've "found the truth, and just need to spread it", believing "they're saved" (whatever that means), and so forth. It's not entirely they're fault - these scriptures directly target the areas of weakness within the human ego, and everyone is susceptible to such within varying degrees. Just wish them well, and move on.

>>13373100
Jesus saves all who are worthy

>>13373123
Worthy according to a set of merciless autistic rules
Whether it is true or not aside, what a shit life it entails
Living just for death
>>13373114
I wish them nothing

>>13373135
You think you're above the divine order? Anon, please!

>>13369023
>I don’t get it.
Oh come on anon, go get a Job.

I don't want to check if someone's already made the dad joke, am I the only one?

>>13373149
I'm above it and I'm below it and I'm to the sides of it
I mean don't get me wrong, I love a lot of the Christian tradition, but it is a rather horrid thing in parts
this isn't even me coping because I'd go to hell if it were true, I'd happily volunteer myself to hell if it guaranteed other people heaven

>>13373068
>not everyone who sincerely seeks the truth and the good ends up a Christian
Anyone who realizes the importance of faith and learning not on one’s own pride and understanding might know that it’s good to seek God. And anyone who does this with all their heart will find Him. Read the Bible, pray, do good works, avoid sin, go to church, and so on. If you do all these things for even a month, you will likely be transformed. But I’ve yet to see an atheist do this and come out a non-believer. Usually they do nothing more than blackmail God: “If you exist, prove it to me right now, or I won’t believe.” Or perhaps they do seek reasons for believing, but they never grasp the importance of faith.

>>13373168
leaning*

>>13369032
Nice.

>>13373166
I can merely point you to The Way, but it is up to you to follow It.

>>13373168
>Anyone who realizes the importance of faith and learning not on one’s own pride and understanding might know that it’s good to seek God.
>I’ve yet to see an atheist do this and come out a non-believer.
I can at least partially agree with you here friend, but many do this and many do not end up a Catholic Christian.
>>13373190
I can point you to the Dharma of the Buddha, do you then follow it? Likely not as you do not view it as true and/or view it as superior to your way or the multitude of other ways. Should you then suffer because of that? I wouldn't want so, it's not your fault for not throwing yourself at every "way" proposed in this world.

>>13373214
>but many do this and many do not end up a Catholic Christian.
Probably because of passages such as Matthew 23, and the seemingly lack of explicit support for the papal system.

Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries[a] wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.

8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

>>13373168
You're mistaking the value found in a spiritually wholesome life, with that of confirmation for your specific system of metaphysics and mythology. Anyone will benefit by living as you said, but that has no relation to Christianity, nor proves it in any sense. Buddhists are personally the most happy, peaceful group I've ever seen - they seem to have it all figured out.

>>13373248
this tbqh

>>13372835
>Abraham was secretly an antinatalist

>>13371038
When will this cunt get banned forever?

>>13369032
Excellent unironically highbrow humor

I don't get it.

>>13369307
Reminder that all christians are also atheists

>>13370931
I enjoy drinking coffee and the subsequent /lit/ shitter moment. You just don't appreciate the small things.

>>13370977
>b-b-b-b-b-b-b-but you would have done the same if you were in Adam and Eve's place!
yeah no shit, they LITERALLY didn't know it was wrong to eat the apple

>>13373956
Because it's hideous beyond words, and God is the worst pervert for creating such disgusting items. Maybe God is also to blame for making me so sensitive t o unsanitary realities.

>>13371072
This is the exact same reasoning used to justify slavery.

>>13372153
Job is being punished because god is canonically a violent jealous demon who could destroy everyone if he wanted and Job is subject to punishment because he doesn't care? What the fuck are you talking about? Job is being punished because he's ignorant of god's capricious, hateful, and violent nature? What the fuck? Should I be subject to punishment because some crack head could break into my house and kill my whole family for no reason? What the FUCK are you talking about?

Maybe the real God was the friends we made along the way

>>13374024
Why did God even let Satan into Paradise in the first place? Doesn't sound much like a Paradise to me...

>>13374154
>i-it's a metaphor...!

I think the bible has a lot of wisdom in it, but anyone who takes it literally is an idiot. Nobody here has read it in its original language and it was written thousands of years ago.

Atheists and Christians that argue about verses written in English, a language that didn't exist when the bible was written, are fucking dumb. Focus on the meaning of the stories.

>>13374414
Christianity is a political movement that thrives on torturing and murdering everyone around them (including their own followers) because they interpreted a passage ever, EVER so slightly differently.

>>13369036
twisted
job really lived in a society

>>13369032
Best response here