/lit/ - Literature

>>13367364
bump

>If World War II was a Civil War between Left and Right Hegelianism
u wot m8

>>13367582
How was it not? Soviets were Left Hegelian tradition and Nazis were Right Hegelian tradition. Stalinground was not a mere battle but a cosmic duel between two part's of hegel's immanent galaxy brain

Zizek is right Hegelian

>>13367631
>english monarchy
>US republic
You wot m8

>>13367364
This brainlet thread must be created by an american pig.

i came into this thread expecting op to be a retard but now after reading their replies i can safely say that this is an incredibly based thread that i nearly do not dare to tread in because of its high-ceiling intellectual discussion that doesn't naturally invite halfwits such of my own capacity

>>13367631
You're a moron but I like you

>>13367688
Existentially and metaphysically, WWII was determined in Eastern Europe

>>13367684
elaborate pls
>>13367703
correct. I think the "world spirit on horseback" is a very evocative image. it amazes me that hegel was such a literary wordsmith, as ignorant as i am about him

This is your brain on schizojak.

>>13367688
>>english monarchy
>>US republic
u w0t m8

Young Landians and Old Landians

>>13368269

>>13368269
>>13368303

>>13367631
>Stalinground was not a mere battle but a cosmic duel between two part's of hegel's immanent galaxy brain

Left Hegelianism is rooted in Marx. Hegel would have hated it.

>>13368312
do you really think that he'd like nazism though? I think he'd have a conservative disdain for it and think that it was a distortion of his ideas. In a word the two traditions are emanations of his thought outside his control

>>13368355
for hegel the zenith of world history was his own gay berlin

b

>>13367364
A civil war between the ideologically degraded syndicalisms. Sorelians will come to take their revenge on the Marxists

>>13367364
nice summary on WWII. What do you think of philosophy of democratic and republic parties are?

An interesting question, OP. My answer is quite long, and more theological than philosophical, but perhaps you will find some value in it.

"The tyrant feasts in luxurious palaces
Drowning his anguish in wine
But the fatal hand is drawing
Threatening letters on the wall."

The first thing that comes to mind, and which severs us from that age of powerful spirits, is that there are no more war horses. There are no men capable of the brutal care required to maintain such a noble image of the horse. The very picture of a sovereign atop his horse conjures up the feeling that nature itself has been uplifted in our soft reign over it, the timed pacification of animal drives treading the line between wildness and calm destruction - the beast turned as a beautiful machine which frees us into natural laws and an order worthy of paradise. Each figure releases a higher being in the other: the horse directed against its prey instincts to become a predator of some higher disposition, and man leading the charge of justice as if floating over the earth like a monstrous spectre or god.

We no longer view nature from such a perspective, we fear romanticism and its repulsion of the human into destructive aims. The effect of this is that there can be no more simple scenes of authority, an uninhibited presiding over a region. We live in an age of distance, and if one is to reign as a heroic martial figure he must descend into a territory much like the great officers who stand in calm celebration amidst reigning shells; as if a servant welcoming the dreaded collapse of nature into its unseen laws, the earth's crust winnowed away to reveal its geologic forces. This alone suggests a striking shift in the character of man and the spirit of the age, a figure who is at peace among his men, one with a simple, rough life, and ready for a death which arrives in the hands of fate rather than the weapon of another man. The wars of the 20th Century are certainly in keeping with the spirit of this figure. And so one must imagine the trajectory of war heading towards this Nomos of the earth: towards an individual freedom beneath international law, within a great desire for peace as even warriors begin to tire of endless war, and yet against all this as the desire for a great final resolution remains within the hearts of men and the very law of their state.

>>13371549
If heroic war is impossible - the end of the noble who leads the forces of the state onto victory certainly seems well beyond us - then the battlefield begins to escape human territory, appearing at a deeper level. It is interesting that material warfare reintroduced the spiritual and metaphysical component of warfare, long thought abandoned, even outlawed in some sense by the European region at its inception. The brutality and total saturation of military operations and technique ensures that devastation is certain for the soldier, he is little more than an instrument of the law's machines, and even incurs upon the most peaceful territories, threatening to consume those who think themselves free of its reach. War begins to threaten far beyond its borders, and the soldier loses his very reason to fight if his kin and nation are threatened by total asymmetrical engagement. This necessitates either complete abandonment of war or a reconnaissance into its buried battlefields, digging into deep trenches where man is capable of enduring when his body cannot.

Modern warfare reveals itself as political continuation of the status quo, an oppositional form of warfare which begins to take up the dominant form of militarism no matter its position, or a primarily spiritual relation to life and freedom. It is philosophy as preparation for death, although experienced through technical capacities. Regardless of such fatalism, however, the inescapable pressures reveal an encroaching spiritual question that will have to be dealt with, either before the war, amidst its battles, or afterward within the ruins. The current crisis of soldiers incapable of adjusting to civilian life at home suggests that it is a losing battle to deal with the spiritual nature of warfare after blood has been spilled. And so with each death of a soldier outside of war we are driven further into an indefensible territory, a dark horizon where capture is certain - spiritual answers will be demanded of us, even if we refuse to acknowledge the questions. And so we are all faced with a great blast sending us flying through the air far above those cavalry fighters, and perhaps even higher than those men destroyed by the great raining steel of modern war. It is in this total abandonment of the earth and the very gravity of our identity as Western men that we are forced to return violently to theological questions.

>>13371558
We live neither in the age of gods or men. The age of man peaked with Christianity, in his communion with the heavens, and we can only imagine that the stubborn foolishness of man led to his refusal to be cast out of heaven like the rebel angels. To maintain his sovereignty he had to learn to bear an all-new form of cunning and ruthlessness. Such tactics disgorge the world but allow men to feed upon the will of the heavens, its force set against against itself and turning the gods to envy of mortal solemnity and peace. Death passes over to immortality in absolute freedom, total abandonment to the decaying flesh of moral will.

Living beneath the laws of gods would be opposed to the spirit of our age. Even worshiping Man is not enough, He must become a monstrous totalism of all men towering above their own mortality. The old kingdom of gods, even the Christian God, cannot be identified with our age - the brutality and heaviness of our assault upon creation drives them away, or perhaps causes them to lose faith in us. Some might even say that we humans have proven our worth, and our tenacity allows us to struggle for sovereignty and dominion against the gods.

Yet there remains something more horrifying, forces which lie deeper and shall never fear hubris or human dominion. While we commune with the gods the impending force of return strengthens and waits patiently. And it is only fitting that we live at once in another Golden Age while projecting the spirit of something far beneath that of the Iron. Upon reflection it seems that the gods are merely toying with us, entertaining visions of our strength while a much greater kingdom awaits their return.

Such a vision may seem in complete opposition to our understanding of the world, one thinks immediately of the collapse of churches, the reign of law over sanctuary, and the guarantee of autonomy to the material world. But rather than being reduced to mere symbols the gods are only becoming more powerful, readying untold destruction beyond anything we had heard of in the old myths. Or rather, we begin to catch a glimpse of what was always there, waiting for us and leveling our understanding of natural law into dust. We realise this horrifying immortality and strength, and so turn away in fear that it might destroy us. The pale horse rides on into battle without us, and we are left to emerge from the cold muck beneath a darkening sky.

>>13367729
I marvel at your wise words and actions brother. You have inspired me to also not participate, for I dare not disturb what shall be marked in history as the most consequential dialogue of our twilight era. I deserve not to be even half remembered by any such giants, so how could I dare leave any mark or imprint in these the passages of history?

>>13371568
This is most present in the myth of sovereignty of our age - the colossus, the machine-god Talos, or the monstrous world-devourer, the Leviathan. We identify with that which is capable of turning the earth to devastation and yet returns us to spiritual mendicity, a sacrifice for our great desire of return to passive simplicity. No other tale can completely describe such a chasm between the Old and New World. We wield death as an instrument but are deathly afraid of its appearance. And in our desire to simply live, be rid of the impossible weight of the cosmological mass we attempt to survive in apprehension of our own bodies. We are a divided people, our spirits wandering off to war while our flesh continues to tend to the fields. The modern human spirit has recreated the entire world image into an idol to Hephaestus, we worship the simple machines of his creation because the gods are simply too much for us. They have wounded our souls through teasing an image of immortality. And we wish to see before us our own pastoralism before this simple machination of heavenly mobilisation. Our bodies live up to the tests of the gods but our spirits could not withstand the pressures. And so we seek our own sanctuary in both weakness and heroism over wretched flesh. This is an imprisonment far beneath the vast prison already constructed by Christianity.

The Apollonian and the Dionysian do not carry the heaviness of our age, neither the vindication nor somber apprehension that has crippled humanity, nor does their appearance follow naturally from the Great Turning Wheel that appeared at the end of Medieval times along with the death of God. Reason and insight are little more than the bare symbolism of a dialogue between water and wine. The Enlightenment was the death of reason, just as the reaction was a desecration of the corpse of insight - and so any purely geopolitical interpretation of warfare cannot ever capture the devastating force which comes with war. We capitulate to the metaphysical warfare in the mind as a coping mechanism while deep within us we realise that the struggle resides far beyond our capacity to endure. This is, much like our worship of inconspicuous idols, a fear of our own overwhelming power, a total sovereignty which enslaves us and turns our laws of freedom to Pyrrhic victory with each battle. And it is this lifting of the veil to live beyond the sight of gods and even human judgement which allows for the spiritless renunciation of all life, the instrumental adjudication of the antithesis and instantiation of everything.

>>13371575
Yet, it remains necessary to rely upon what tools we have as humans to sense the gravity of our situation. There are a number of figures and forms we can imagine which may be brought together as a total image obscured by a misty treeline. Here we see: the conflict of civilisations, both internal and external; the liquidation of metal spirits; the rise new race; the tactics revealing an aesthetics of immortality; absolute plunder of the old world and the naturomachy of the New World; religious judgement and persecution of the very figure of man; an apostasy of religious escape into political sanctuary; the great flight of the peasantry as the last Dionysians; telluric war against the city and for the nation-state; the state's fall to its own willless justice; the nihilism of street battles, provocation, and criminality, legalised for monarchistic mechanisation; the triumph of technical instrumentation as if all form had the same mass and weight; conflict of time as opposing cultures emerge within the world spirit; the rising of the earth into battle and the digging of man into the underworld just to survive; the death of all nations and law; the crypsis of the forest luring the enemy into silent rending; the pure war of enduring grief; continental disgorgement as execration of its own oozing Pyrrhic victory; a final war of death's triumph over death, and defeat for all mankind; and a final tentative peace which only serves to further distance warcraft into automation, increasing its destructive capacities. However, if one is to distill this trajectory into a single image then what survives must be the final object of contemplation.

A greater difficulty confronts us here, if there is a single god charged with delivering judgement over people spanning the continents, and engaged in a mechanized civil war, who would they be? They would have to rise within a historical trajectory, the closing out of ages, and they would have to present us with a world-forming judgement if we are to use the strength of insight to capture a glimpse of their being and intentions. And they would have to be capable of ruling over the other gods who have stepped in to loom over the laws of our age. These would have to be extremely powerful gods, wielding might and influence beyond the sovereignty of the heavens and its own possibility of warfare. The uniting forces of law, time, and survival are set against us, suggesting that whatever it is that retains sovereignty commands wisdom and jurisdiction over the eternal—even a strength that will persist beyond that of other gods. An eschatological threat threatening tyranny beyond earth. We are dealing with monstrous and primordial forces, something which can only be sensed vaguely and yet overwhelms our very being. An irruption that shall destroy the gods along with man if it ever sees the need.

>>13371578
The parents of the gods, or perhaps some unknown gods, are the only beings capable of holding such dominion. They have descended to rule over us. It is petrifying to think that such forces could ever enter into our lands, but it is a unifying necessity, a vengeful justice which will exist beyond our tilled soil, and so certain in its reign that it never needs to appear or make its presence known. Such contradictions instill paralyzing fear in man, especially his modern figure. And so we are faced with a near impossible task, we risk death to merely ask the question. However, to hazard a gas one might say that in the East Chernobog rules from the shadows, in the West a trudging Giant turns the sea into little more than a step beneath his feet, and in Europe the Furies threaten vengeance giving way to the Unknown God

We cannot accept that only time and space are at play here, eternal forces will never be subject to geopolitical will—as great as it may appear in its thundering steel and lead, or even heavier elements. There is something else governing the cosmos, bending both time and space to its necessity, even flattening its material out into the stasis of eternity. One must reimagine Zeno's Paradox of the Arrow applied to every shell fired on the Somme to understand the impossibility of what we are dealing with. There can be no abstract calculation, such an attempt would only form its own methods into war. The dark god devours world power, the giant returns against economy, and vengeful spirits set themselves against all known law.

Perhaps even more devastating, what we should envision is the wounded gods on this endless battlefield, and the cities to which a final judgement shall pass. After all, it is no mistake that the historical spirit of Paris follows its mythical title, we now witness the final moments of resignation to beauty—and perhaps preserving its image in WWII should not have been the basis of Western war doctrine. Beauty, as essence, may even have died well before that to which we can say that the entirety of the modern experiment was nothing more than a catastrophe, an exhausting wastefulness. Even a pallid horse cannot rise within such ugliness, the laws of dead cities follow neither laws of heaven nor earth.

>>13371588
One must sense that the vitality of this spirit resides either in final escape or a return of the worshipers of Erinyes to themselves. The Europeans follow this judgement. A two-front war, in its theological context, will almost certainly achieve such a return, and one might say that the reconstruction of theology is a herald of this. We sense an intense rumbling beneath the earth, the devastation looming over the horizon, the rustle and noisy flight from the bushes in the forest dusk. And it is in this that we must prepare for the spirit of the next great war.

Only a man capable of walking in fields amidst wounded gods will survive the final war. And many more will have to sacrifice themselves for this image. If Troy was the witness of the first war then all of humanity must stand before the last, against machines and gods all the same, and with the judgement of our cities commencing only after their fall. If any small part of this comes to fruition then it is likely that the forests will have to become heralds of our final refuge, a primordial defense equal to the depth of the natural fortresses which have been made out of cities.

https://youtu.be/CjauwKb42d4

>>13367364
ITT:
Adults playing pretend.

>>13371588
>>13371578
>>13371575
>>13371571
>>13371568
>>13371558
>>13371549
tl;dr? did you write this yourself or is it just copypasta of land or something
>>13370578
jeffersonian vs. hamiltonianism

>>13371716
Yeah, I wrote it. In your terminology, it is the world spirit of man in our age, a general outline of modern warfare, a sense of the coming war, the figure of man who will 'ride the horse of the age', and the gods who will rule over the battlefield.
It may not be what you are looking for since it is theological rather than philosophical, but I'm writing on these ideas anyway so it may act as an outline for an essay in any case.

>>13372578
it's ok i appreciate your effort posting nonetheless

>>13367364
Why do they have so many bottles of water and mineral water?

>>13374273
they were saturating the hydrosphere, what else could they be doing?

Is this the democraticx debate thread?

BUTTIGIEG WINS

>>13374838
>BUTTIGIEG WINS
His father was a Gramsci scholar, so I honestly believe that his intentions are for more nefarious/radical than he lets on.

>>13371604
t. matriarchal panopticon hivemind

>>13371594
We are a divided people, our spirits wandering off to war while our flesh continues to tend to the fields. The modern human spirit has recreated the entire world image into an idol to Hephaestus, we worship the simple machines of his creation because the gods are simply too much for us.

great stuff, are you that based "arch of history" poster?

>>13375093
I am. And I would be interested in communicating if you have any writings or just want to discuss things.
In any case, thanks for your comment.

>>13367364
world war 3 is a spiritual war...

and we're smack dab in the middle of it

>>13375359
your sensibility is in line with my own, the way you talk about how we hate the fact that the "looming sublimity" of primeval forests will outlive us all, and render our designs so paltry and insignificant when they're exposed to the sheer breadth of geologic, let alone cosmic, time scales

I'm glad there are people out there like you who get it

>>13374979
WTF is Gramsci? Can we use words?

DID YOU WATCH THE FUCKING THING!?

>>13375372
If you are interested, I post many of my writings here
https://mandalietmandaliet.blogspot.com/
Several writings have been stewing half-finished or near completion and I hope to have them done over the summer. Mostly shorter and medium-length essays on liberalism, war, art, dialectics, justice, and theology. I also post the odd poem or philosophy in shitpost form.

>>13376307
Oh! I've actually already read your blog. It's fantastic and I agree with everything. Especially what you say about returning to a mature pagan spirituality. Keep up the good work.

>>13367364
>He think wars are made because of ideas, of not because of economic rivalry.

>>13376520
Oh, okay. I thought that may be possible, but considering the small readership of such ideas I figured I'd share just in case you hadn't seen it.
Take care, anon.

>>13376586
While I don't agree with the OP it is certainly a better theory than MUH OIL or MUH MIC.
I doubt that any war could be read as dominantly economic. Such theories are essentially a trick to keep people from investigating the true causes.

>>13367631
>Stalinground

>>13377940
>While I don't agree with the OP it is certainly a better theory than MUH OIL or MUH MIC.
Why?
>I doubt that any war could be read as dominantly economic.
Why?
>Such theories are essentially a trick to keep people from investigating the true causes.
Again, why?

You come off as somebody who doesn't grasp how significant economic problems are, either that or a crypto-theist who would make a better case by just saying outright that all wars are part of God's plan for humanity.

>>13379027
>>13379027
I'm trying to write an effortpost, but I'm also drinking and listening to music, so I'll write the tl:dr first just to see what happens.
>Why?
Because we are not coins.
>Why?
Because the god of dice is not the only existing god, and even though the most minor gods rule over us today he remains near the bottom of the hierarchy.
>Again, why?
Because this society is based on a lie. And the being of economy cannot exist alongside the being of war. One must be subsumed, devoured by the other's processes, and the fact that modern economy approaches the aesthetics and being of war can do nothing but prove the sovereignty of war over economy. Material warfare mobilised all of society to war tactics, operations, and rationality. And it is no mistake that capital died within the Great Wars. Planned obsolescence is the self-sacrifice of material to the reanimation of the dead nation-state, the blitzkrieg of the final surviving beings to the defense in depth of the Leviathan.
>You come off...
I fully grasp economy, this is why I understand that it is a minor process. Economic determinism is nothing more than a misstep in human thought, turning abstraction into its own biology. The greatest economic determinists approached escape, a theological interpretation or reaction to economic domination which could only be resolved through a complete return to being. And the current state of society, where it exists as nothing more than money-changing and false sacrifices to Hermes (or perhaps some unknown economic god), reveals itself most clearly in the loyal opposition of revolutionaries to their masters. Economic thinking is a trap, you are captured into an animalistic rationality, and so the opponents more and more appear as lunatics. This is proven by the racket of organisation which forces opponents of capital to unleash a runaway of politics against any opponent of capital who appears too far.
The desperate schismogenesis of the modernists who cannot see their own fascistic tendencies. A refusal of hierarchies ensures that they cannot even see that law and technology reigns over the modern period - so they could never peer beyond the economic shadow to realise how all difference in the modern spirit disappears within the necessity of law and technology. This is why the marxists hold onto a lost era and become conservatives, they have necessitated a spiritual war against their own being. Germany in Autumn, the fiery mourning within a bureaucratic terrorism, reveals the revolutionary spirit which refuses the burial rites of its own. Antigone is granted her demands, but still commits suicide.

In short, those who commit the most to a doctrine of economic war are the fiercest traitors and informants. The post-leftist appears as the depleted uranium of Schmitt's theory of international law.

Choose your path to continue (or quit game now).
https://youtu.be/LZ07ixA2Jjw
https://youtu.be/Om0QydWrTao

>>13375360
Trump won culture wars tho right

Opposed to OP's theory we might say that the spirit of the age is looking for its Helen of Troy. Her kulning is for the European man to return home, but the distance is so great - beyond continents, drowned out by the howling wails of factory sirens - that it reaches our ears as the languored growling of demons. But in truth it is the final call of beauty. We must return to that great clearing of judgement.
>>13379027
Another way to put this, Name just one (1) war dominated by economics. Or post a greater example of the Helen of our time (27:55 or 43:51, I remain open-minded):
https://youtu.be/0cXhWIN68P8?t=2631
In other words, I am greater than Plato when I dialectic through drunken shitposts, so don't fuck with me. Yet I am no Nietzschean tippler on milk, I remain sympathetic and open to Diogenes-like arguments as a counter, if only to laugh mockingly.

Or in still other words, we must choose either the Russian Soul or the Jewish, without desecrating anything that remains.
https://youtu.be/8MBn6wSkamQ
https://youtu.be/9mzPOIxU05c